[00:51] knome: heyo [00:51] wahh [00:51] :) [00:51] oh, haha [00:51] wrong channel :) [00:51] ;) [00:52] but yeah, I think it will be the same as any SRU... we'll bring in releases that fix really prominent bugs [00:52] yep [00:56] there we go [00:57] exactly 140 characters [00:57] "@Yanpask @Xubuntu As with any SRU, we will work to include releases that resolve high-impact bugs (http://bit.ly/1MPLF1t) affecting Trusty." [00:57] knome: sound good? [00:57] wfm [00:58] * knome thinks the bluesabre twitter page is creepy with those grinning seans [00:58] retweeted [00:58] knome: indeed, not sure when I got a nice background pic there [00:58] but its a bit much [00:59] yes, it's a bit much ;) [00:59] knome: mind if I chop up a xubuntu wallpaper for my bg? [00:59] not at all [00:59] grinning seans <3 [01:00] Where is he grinning? [01:00] Unit193, in his twitter page [01:00] https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis [01:00] well he removed the other pic too [01:00] s/too/already/ [01:01] Ah, that's why. [01:01] bluesabre, that orange is the best wallpaper cut i've ever seen [01:01] knome: it burns >.< [01:06] bluesabre, did you have one of those good monitors? :P [01:08] there we go, thats an improvement [01:08] * bluesabre is not sure if the question has a good or bad connotation [01:09] bluesabre, well if you have a better monitor, i don't wonder why it hurts... :P [01:09] that's a weird cut, but ok :D [01:09] bluesabre, why didn't you snatch the one from the xubuntu page while you were at it? :P [01:10] bluesabre, https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/430282295/1397646039/1500x500 [01:14] Hi, folks. I'm Greg Blumenthal. I want to thank Elizabeth K. Joseph and everyone else at xubuntu.org for the opportunity to talk about Xubuntu in my work. [01:15] hey gmbs, thank *you* :) [01:18] Sheesh, it's been over 20 years since I last spent any time on IRC. Looks like the net-splits don't go away, huh? [01:18] knome: was going for the artsy-fartsy, ended up with more fartsy [01:18] bluesabre, hehe [01:19] gmbs, yeah, it's a never-ending story... [01:21] gmbs, btw, if you hang around long enough, elizabeth will surely pop up, pleia2 is her nick :) [01:22] oh, heh :) [01:22] scared them away... [01:22] gmbs, welcome back ;) [01:22] NOW I remember IRC [01:23] gmbs, if you didn't see this --> btw, if you hang around long enough, elizabeth will surely pop up, pleia2 is her nick :) [01:23] I need to go make dinner for the family. I'll be back later. [01:24] bon appetit! [01:24] <--- not another net-split [01:24] gmbs: they might have even gotten worse :) [01:25] heh === pleia2_ is now known as pleia2 [01:53] Unit193: could I get you or bluesabre (or any other xubuntu dev really) to look into how we can properly start the xfce session in ubiquity-dm to fix the dialog positioning issues elfy pointed out today? [01:54] Unit193: I noticed you made some changes before in ubiquity, I tried to revert them in case and it didn't fix things, but when I completely disable xfwm4 (not starting it at all) then ubiquity starts in the center of the screen as it should [01:54] so I'm thinking it might be something that isn't quite right in what programs are started to bring up the xfce session, or the order in which they get started [02:09] cyphermox: Sure, though of course I'd volunteer bluesabre for you. [02:39] 20:48:31 bluesabre | brainvvash: registered now https://launchpad.net/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin [02:39] everybody have fun splitting? [02:40] thanks for creating the project site [02:40] I think I've linked everything appropriately [02:41] if gottcode shows up, let him know about it as well... I'll reassign admin of it to him if he wants it [02:42] it shows only the vivid series, is this expected? [02:42] https://launchpad.net/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/+packages [02:43] fixed [02:44] awesome [02:47] bluesabre: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/25/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:53 [02:48] cyphermox: thanks, I'll take a look at that [02:48] thanks [02:49] I'm logging off for the night now, back in standard working hours for EST timezone [02:50] bluesabre: Why'd you do/need that? [02:50] Unit193: hm? [02:51] whisker on LP. [02:51] has the benefit of pointing people upstream, and being able to do daily builds and whatnot [02:51] and [02:51] brainvvash requested it, and it seemed sane enough [02:52] (and is one of the easiest things I can do on a Tuesday night) [02:52] it's useful, indeed [02:52] cyphermox: thanks, have a good night [02:52] Heh, well I'd take that over cleaning and caulking the bathroom, so want to trade? :P [02:53] noop [02:53] cyphermox: And EST FTW! [02:53] Unit193: yay [02:53] * bluesabre high fives Unit193 and cyphermox [03:04] Unit193: re http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/02/25/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t01:53 any ideas off the top of your head? [03:06] I punted to you. :P [03:06] All I hear is that I didn't break it. [03:06] :) [03:07] * bluesabre begins the download [03:16] Ah, looks like 3.19 will land after beta freeze is up. [03:17] oh cool [03:21] bluesabre: Try an older xfwm, just for kicks, with ubiquity? [03:22] yeah, going to try that and a few other things [03:26] Not xfce 11059 or something I'd presume? [03:26] xfce bug 11059 in General "[PATCH] Too much space reserved for panel when external VGA output unplugged" [Normal,Reopened] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11059 [03:38] Hi again, folks. I'm Greg Blumenthal. I want to thank Elizabeth K. Joseph and everyone else at xubuntu.org for the opportunity to talk about Xubuntu in my work [03:43] If anyone has any questions about how and why I install Xubuntu for small business desktop use in Mexico, I am happy to answer. [07:13] bluesabre: perhaps we should have been happy with black background to the try/install :) [10:38] hey everyone [10:38] hey ochosi [10:41] * ochosi is still on a train on his way home [10:41] knome: therefore ^ not sure i'll make it in time for the meeting [11:18] elfy: indeed :D [11:23] hey bl [11:23] bluesabre: ^ [11:23] :) [11:23] stupid mobile internet screws things up with being slow [11:23] in case you're not going to make the meeting tonight, i wanted to discuss 4.12 for trusty with you [11:24] ochosi: hey [11:24] whats up? [11:24] i guess the general question is whether we try a huge SRU or go for the PPA version [11:25] did you see my tweet? [11:25] sorry, i was away since sunday [11:25] so i've only seen very few updates lately [11:25] https://twitter.com/bluesabredavis/status/570387123024433152 [11:25] did you do an @xubuntu tweet or are you on twitter too? [11:26] knome wanted my unofficial response as XTL [11:26] k [11:26] and then retweeted as @xubuntu [11:27] but yeah, no need for a full SRU into trusty [11:27] ok good [11:27] we update components that have major bugs, leave the others alone until major bugs might be found [11:29] righty [11:29] oho, that was definitely a systemd boot message on the b1 iso [11:30] elfy: you around? [11:30] bluesabre, there are some panel wrapper crash reports [11:31] I told you about my systray crash, probably triggered by the task manager [11:32] not reproducible tough [11:34] bluesabre: did i miss much else? [11:35] ochosi: elfy/cyphermox found an issue with the b1 iso (32bit only maybe?) where the/a window is drawn offscreen [11:35] or thats how I understand it [11:35] in ubiquity [11:35] right [11:36] that's not much fun [11:36] trying to reproduce now to see if I can find the cause [11:36] i wonder how that could happen [11:36] i thought ubiquity runs a couple of commands to ensure it's centered [11:36] wanted to test it last night, but the iso took forever to download [11:36] i'll try to take a look on friday [11:36] b1 is thursday :P [11:36] today i'm travelling and tomorrow i have a packed day [11:37] yeah well, luckily it's only a beta ;) [11:37] heh [11:37] i think with xfdesktop running you could try to open a terminal [11:37] oh [11:37] in the ubiquity-dm session [11:37] another fun one [11:37] so that could help with debugging [11:38] that could also be a reason for this happening btgw [11:38] https://imgur.com/hxmrz2d [11:38] because we didn't really resolve the black background issue, we "painted over it" [11:38] wow, that looks super-shitty :) [11:39] no, its resolved... we paint the background black and then open xfdesktop, no different than the root pixmap and xfdesktop we do for a normal session [11:39] er, a tiny bit different [11:39] i think thta's xfwm4 removing the window frame because it thinks the window is tiled [11:39] oh [11:39] (can we remove that please) [11:40] thats an annoying feature [11:40] or add a switch [11:40] so that's clearly a bug [11:40] in xfwm4 [11:42] bluesabre, a new window should not be tiled automatically, is that a regression? [11:42] I'd prefer that window frame never be removed, especially if tiled [11:43] i think there is no such option yet [11:43] afai've noticed this sort of bug already with other windows in the session too btw [11:44] afa indeed [11:44] bleh, stupid slow internet laaag [11:45] honestly, probably not the best idea for all changes to land in xfce 2-3 weeks before release [11:45] 2-3 years of development stability, final burst of features [11:45] (and bugs) [12:08] dkessel, can you please check this string -> https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+pots/desktop-guide/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=einmal+in+2+Jahren [12:08] why aren't the tags present in the translated string? [12:09] also I've just upload a de.po file to the branch with several corrections regarding translated Docbook tags [12:10] elfy, Unit193: it looks like the window is opening on the very right-most pixel [12:11] that also seems to be where xfwm thinks things should go [12:11] if you can open a terminal and drag it to the far left, it will tile itself back on that right-most pixel [12:12] bluesabre: should be this commit in xfwm4 6f6604a338e24a1df45d0cb97c2c0ec5cd205b62 [12:12] not sure about the "optional" part though [12:19] elfy, Unit193: it seems like a regression, installing xfwm4 from utopic makes new windows appear on the right display [12:20] though the bug seems to be linked to tiling... if I drag a window to the left corner, it tiles to the right pixel even in older releases [12:20] ochosi: is there a way to disable tiling? [12:22] yup [12:22] i [12:23] 'm looking up the key for you, one sec [12:23] k, going to hop in the shower in the meantime, bbiab [12:24] it's /xfwm4/general/tile_on_move [12:24] maybe we can disable that for ubiquity [12:26] or in general, if that's the only way [12:32] slickymasterWork: oh right - i fixed the one with the missing tags [12:32] slickymasterWork: anything else you noticed about the translation? [12:39] ochosi: thanks [12:40] elfy, Unit193: won't have a chance to test this morning, but if you get a chance, maybe try the following command in a terminal (ctrl-alt-t or right-click desktop to get a terminal) before the installer finishes [12:40] xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/tile_on_move -s false [12:42] bluesabre, and this is a 32bit only issue? [12:42] brainvvash: not sure [12:42] sounds strange :) [12:42] the iso takes so long to download, only been able to test 32bit since I saw a mention of it [12:43] I'll test with a version of ubiquity from utopic later and other variations to figure out the exact issue [13:04] bluesabre: arch agnosti [13:07] that command returns nothing [13:07] but that's before the installer starts as it's invisble :) [13:08] yeah, the command returns nothing, just sets tiling off [13:08] gotta run, bbl [13:08] check the right-most pixel for a window border [13:08] things hide over there [13:09] alt+space+m moving them :) [13:09] yep - cya later [13:21] bluesabre: ok - made no difference - after install finishes the install complete notification was off screen somewhere - BUT - grabbing it and moving it onto desktop - it says install is completel [13:25] ok, so we mostly have a window managing problem there [13:28] ochosi: seems so - other than it being a bit pants - I'm not completely panicking :) [13:29] I want to do some double checking that it all works from live session as expected - if that's the case then I'd +1 releasing with a Big Known Issue if you 2 wanted to [13:30] and assuming it's not fixed by tomorrow ofc [14:06] great dkessel, thanks for that [14:08] other than ^^, just a few occurrences of the closing tag being translated [14:10] and I already upload a de.po file correcting those [14:11] elfy: yeah, i guess that'd be ok [14:17] not sure we'll be able to figure things out until tomorrow [15:00] GridCube, can you please normalize the 'Settings Manager' entity in the Spanish translations of the -docs. So far there's translated entries as "Administrador de configuración", "Configuración" and "Settings Manager" [15:02] and please use the name used in the menu [15:06] in the menu if you hover it says "Toda la configuración" but the title of the Settings Manager just says "Configuración" [15:06] yet another entry GridCube, "configuración" (this one is the same as the previous, but the initial C is not capitalized) [15:06] GridCube, use the one in the menu [15:07] thats what whiskers say, in the xfce menu it says "Administrador de configuración" [15:07] as whiskers is default i guess i should use "Toda la configuración" then? [15:07] hmm [15:08] what are the literal translations for those? [15:08] at least you should choose one and make it default through all the docs GridCube [15:09] i actually believe the one from the regular menu is the one that comes from xfce [15:09] the one in whisker is probably whisker-specific [15:09] I'm under the same impression knome [15:09] i'd use the one from xfce [15:09] "all settings" (toda la configuracion), "settings" (configuración), "settings manager" (administrador de configuración) [15:09] knome: makes sense [15:10] use the one that is the "real" translation for the original string (settings manager) [15:10] GridCube, if you're going to work on it right now please tell me, because I'm working on the es.po and I'll stop until you've finished [15:10] so what it says in the xfce menu [15:11] slickymasterWork: even if i make a change, the translation team might take days to aprove myc hanges [15:11] aren't you also reviewer GridCube? [15:11] nope [15:11] was never accepted [15:12] ok, I'll continue then, and upload all the corrections to malformed and translated tags [15:13] ok, i'll make the suggestions then [15:13] great, thanks GridCube ;) [15:15] as you're on it GridCube, there's one other proposed entry for 'Settings Manager' -> "Gestor de de configuración" :P [15:16] yes [15:16] don't confuse this any more :P [15:16] thats not good [15:16] * slickymasterWork thinks that this just shows the richness of the Latin idioms [15:16] i saw it [15:24] ok, done [15:25] all 26 instances where "settings manager" was now says "administración de configuración" as from the xfce menu lists [15:25] notice again that this is different from whiskers and from what the window title says [15:27] even the english dialog says just "Settings" [15:27] ok :) [15:27] i don't use whiskermenu though [15:27] "All Settings" there [15:27] so ti's in line with english [15:27] i've sent a mail to the translations team leader asking for review [15:29] one other thing I noticed GridCube, is that most of the times « » are used in spite of " " and that breaks the code [15:29] I'm already fixing those ^^^ [15:29] no idea how to get << >> [15:30] in Portuguese keyboards it's the key immediately to the left of the 'Backspace' key [15:31] ¡¿~ [15:31] thats what that key contains [15:31] altgr+shift+8/9 [15:32] i think that the idea is not to use them anyway [15:32] slickymasterWork, you can use « and » if you want to use them... :P [15:32] i'm sure it's some sort of convention [15:34] but the script is escaping the occurrences of " " -> \" blá blá \" [15:40] eh [15:42] like this knome: " [15:42] you can't use [15:43] oh right... [15:43] that's clearly wrong that «» there [15:44] would be nice to know again who is doing that [15:44] because they aren't helping at all with that stuff we have to fix after they did it [15:45] * slickymasterWork is reviewing the file in poeditor [15:59] GridCube, ping [16:00] yes [16:01] can I ask you another favor? 'Network Manager' and 'Gestor de redes' [16:01] can you also normalize that? [16:06] slickymasterWork: i cant find "network manager" [16:06] oh, its networkmanager all thogheter [16:06] yes :) [16:07] should it just stay "NetworkManager"? [16:08] if you hover the applet it doesnt say anything, and the window from Edit says "Conexiones de red" [16:09] but the app in alt-tab says "nm connection editor" [16:13] i don't know what to do [16:13] I use Conexiones de red, GridCube [16:14] S/I use/I would use [16:14] alright [16:24] done [16:26] thanks GridCube [16:26] de nada [16:27] ;) [16:30] !team | meeting in 30min [16:30] meeting in 30min: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [16:45] desktop-guide-es.po reviewd for malformed and translated tags an uploaded to the branch [16:56] i am also here to tune in to the meeting [17:00] dkessel, oh but you're not allowed [17:00] yeah, sure :p [17:00] didn't you know that when the meeting is on wednesdays, people whose nick starts with d can't participate [17:00] boo, you didn't take the bait :( [17:00] of course you can participate... [17:00] ;) [17:00] #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting [17:00] Meeting started Wed Feb 25 17:00:59 2015 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [17:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [17:01] who's here for the meeting? [17:01] * GridCube is here as a listener today [17:02] be about make a cup of tea time - just got in [17:02] GridCube, non-team members can talk just as well :P [17:02] i know :P but i'll probably have nothing to say [17:02] this is the first meeting i can join in years [17:02] #topic Open action items [17:02] Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs [17:02] did that happen? [17:03] no [17:03] #action Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs [17:03] ACTION: Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs [17:03] rests seems done [17:03] #topic Team updates [17:03] #info The new website theme (with fixes) is live!!! [17:04] I have loads [17:04] just pour them in :) [17:05] right - I'm here now [17:05] though loads is probably 3 or 4 :p [17:06] haha [17:06] #info Trusty testing - once we had a testable image - went well - 94 reported results for that [17:06] \o/ [17:07] knome: Colour scheme of website is good but not sure about the shade of green [17:07] #info First count for QA incentive will be done by Sunday for ochosi to approve [17:07] PaulW2U, we're in the middle of a meeting, can you give the feedback after this, thanks [17:07] #info vivid beta testing is not going too well with the known issue, release team need to make a decision [17:08] elfy, can you summarize where it happens? [17:08] #action xubuntu-release to discuss state of vivid beta and release position [17:08] ACTION: xubuntu-release to discuss state of vivid beta and release position [17:08] knome: yes - any of the install options appear to cause various issues [17:09] ouch.. [17:09] xubuntu-specific only or general? [17:09] I need to check the live session install options - they *appear* ok [17:09] xubuntu-specific it seems [17:09] hmpf [17:10] my opinion, not that i'm in the release team or the team lead, is that it would be important to get beta out for exploratory testing (people are interested in betas) [17:10] of course while that specific info is just one line - it's a big one :p [17:10] if we can only make the system to install more or less cleanly.. [17:10] ftr, ^^^ that's bug 1425047 [17:10] bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047 [17:11] slickymasterWork: it's not just that I'm afraid :) [17:11] great, here I was thinking it was just sinply that :P [17:11] kvm - don't even see the screen to install from :) [17:11] apparently there could be a trivial fix to that [17:11] but not landing before the beta [17:12] elfy, or did you test that already? [17:12] not seen anything about fix [17:12] test what? [17:12] aha [17:12] bluesabre sent you a line to turn off tiling [17:12] oh if you mean bluesabre's xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/tile_on_move -s false [17:12] he also said something about running with utopic ubiquity to debug it [17:12] yes [17:12] that [17:13] my result of that is [13:21] bluesabre: ok - made no difference [17:13] right :( [17:13] well, let's hope we can fix it ASAP [17:13] anything else for the team updates? [17:13] but all is not lost - it IS installable [17:13] yep :) [17:13] just not from all options easily [17:14] yeah.. [17:14] maybe we should send a mail to the ML informing about known working installation options [17:14] hardware testing for all install options from livesession is not something that I can do [17:14] dkessel: they'd be on the release note [17:14] elfy, what can't you? [17:15] all that I CAN do is manual [17:15] oh ok [17:16] well i don't think that makes much difference if the problems are related to window positioning though [17:16] but what do i know... :) [17:16] basically all of the dialogues are off screen [17:16] yep [17:16] since it's likely that's an xfwm bug, it shouldn't stop one from installing [17:16] you can grab them - make sure has focus then alt+space+m then you can select move and grab it [17:16] if you can get the windows to be visible, that is [17:17] yep [17:17] yep - I just need time to work through all the options I can do - vm's and hardware [17:17] let's follow up on this when bluesabre gets back :) [17:17] any other team updates? [17:17] slickymasterWork? [17:18] ups sorry [17:18] no closed from my side [17:18] s/no/nothing [17:18] #done pleia2 published a "Xubuntu at..." blog post [17:18] ok, moving on [17:18] working on a bunch of things, still [17:18] #topic Announcements [17:18] #info Xfce 4.12 is to be released next weekend [17:19] #info Team has got an ACK for a FFe for 4.12 uploads, will be uploaded once everything has settled [17:19] any other announcements? [17:21] #info Next freezes: UIFreeze March 12, DocStringFreeze March 19 [17:21] not that I'm aware of [17:22] #topic Discussion [17:22] i believe the core upgrade issue should be solved now [17:22] #subtopic ISO target size [17:22] anybody have comments on this? [17:22] yes [17:22] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-February/010606.html [17:23] go ahead :) [17:23] my position is (and isn't likely to change) that we shouldn't constrain ourselves by the 1Gb limit - however that doesn't equate to woohoo - we've got 2 Gb - fill that space up [17:24] yep [17:24] we should bear in mind people that might have bandwidth issues [17:24] this is what i thought when i wrote: [17:24] My suggestion on the meeting was that if we go over 1GB, our new target [17:24] should be "below or as close to 1GB as possible, but 2GB at maximum". [17:24] i think we just need a team vote on this [17:24] yep [17:24] that's also my position, as I already said in the ML [17:25] #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion [17:25] ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion [17:25] as i said in the ML i think we should not limit to a size, but neither go adding stuff for the sake of it, just try to remain the smaller posible without feeling constrained [17:25] GridCube: that I think is more or less what everyone is saying [17:25] mmhm [17:25] the technical limitation is "required" in order to the trackers to be able to notice when we've gone over a specified limit [17:26] but yeah, i don't think 2GB is really a problem, even if we decided to go ahead with the office stack change [17:26] Unit193's figures for that were like 1.1GB... [17:26] hello, sorry for my delay :-/ [17:26] knome: yea [17:26] #nick Unit193 [17:26] (needed that for the action item) [17:27] and on THAT note we need to try tie those other discussion into agenda [17:27] but then again 1.2GB target makes no sense, there is no 1.2GB hardware :D [17:27] you can action me to do both of those [17:27] elfy, the other things that are already on the agenda? :D [17:28] i think it's next to useless to try to discuss them today since we are few-numbered [17:28] knome: yea - so limit should be 2 - that doesn't mean that [team] is going to +1 filling it up [17:28] yep [17:28] knome: there is also the game issue [17:28] right [17:28] #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda [17:28] ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda [17:28] happy? [17:28] :) [17:28] I'd not say that :p [17:28] #undo [17:29] Removing item from minutes: ACTION [17:29] #chair elfy [17:29] Current chairs: elfy knome [17:29] LOL [17:29] ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda [17:29] I meant I'd not say I was happy :D [17:29] :D [17:29] lol [17:29] #action elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda [17:29] ACTION: elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda [17:29] #subtopic Any other discussion [17:29] oh silly me - forgot the # [17:30] anything else? [17:30] too bad PaulW2U got scared and left... [17:30] nothing from me [17:31] slickymasterWork, want to bring up something? [17:31] nopes, nothing at the moment [17:31] #topic Schedule next meeting [17:31] ochosi for that I think [17:31] #info ochosi schedules the next meeting (XPL duty) [17:32] yep [17:32] #endmeeting [17:32] Meeting ended Wed Feb 25 17:32:04 2015 UTC. [17:32] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-02-25-17.00.moin.txt [17:32] thanks everybody [17:32] but we still have to find a common schedule to finish the installer slideshow, knome, elfy [17:32] i'll set the minutes up in a minute [17:32] knome: thanks [17:32] slickymasterWork, can do that now [17:32] yes [17:32] this weekend? [17:32] I'll send a mail to the list re hardware tests installing from livesession [17:32] sunday is not working for me [17:32] unless it's $late [17:33] while you guys sitting down in a team meeeting, i was working on the installer # bug 1425047 :-P [17:33] bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047 [17:33] well make that $very_late [17:33] late won't work for me, beacuse the little one [17:33] mhm [17:33] i can't promise anything for saturday either [17:33] saturday? [17:33] no clear plans yet [17:33] Friday evening? [17:33] wait [17:33] wfm [17:34] your evening means what time elfy? [17:34] after 21:: UTC? [17:34] * 21:00 [17:34] till midnightish UTC [17:34] wfm [17:34] that's what i call late :-P [17:34] considering we aren't on the move, works for me too, but not sure yet [17:34] i would place my bets on monday [17:35] even if that's not weekend.. [17:35] and after first food if I'm awake that late - cos I'd need second food too :p [17:35] monday is good for me also [17:35] mmm - mon-wed night I can be about - just not so late [17:35] lol, we'll bring extra food elfy [17:35] elfy, pick a time [17:36] knome: monday? [17:36] elfy, yep [17:36] 1900 or 2000 [17:36] slickymasterWork, which one works for you? [17:36] depends how long we think it's going to go on [17:36] i'd hope ~30-45mins [17:36] both, I'll postponed diner [17:37] also knome and I can start looking at poll first I guess [17:37] 19utc then? [17:37] i mean, [17:37] you got yourselves a date then gentlemen [17:37] let's go through things that we need to work on together [17:37] slickymasterWork, a 2-way? [17:37] we can action the actual content writing for later/we can do that alone [17:37] not with you... you demon [17:38] :P [17:39] and next time i'll ask you boys where i can do more help and support (expect iso-testing) :-) Probably you have some ideas for me :-) [17:39] Akusari, next what time? [17:40] slickymasterWork, elfy: so 19UTC monday? [17:40] there were already some work items attributed [17:40] wfm [17:40] after next meeting i thought [17:41] i'd like to have some tasks :-) [17:41] but i'm not sure what i can do [17:42] i'll continue iso-testing anyway (for sure) [17:42] Akusari, do you master any other idiom besides english? [17:43] Akusari, do you master any other idiom besides english? [17:43] german [17:43] here's something for you to help with .> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html [17:44] why do you ask ? [17:44] knome: ack [17:44] see my previous post Akusari [17:44] here's something for you to help with .> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010516.html [17:44] sounds not bad [17:44] i can do a german translation of course [17:45] if you feel you need any help with anything, please fell free to ping me [17:45] addaed our sprint to the calendar [17:45] and minutes are up [17:45] ok :-) [17:45] lol knome, you're spamming my phone :P [17:45] slickymasterWork, i'm wondering whether we should also set up translation guidelines [17:45] ok - mail to list re beta hardware from live session gone [17:46] slickymasterWork, eg. don't translate tags, always use the UI transation name for application names (re: todays discussion) [17:46] translations wise [17:46] slickymasterWork, that might save us a lot of this work you've done today.. [17:46] agree knome, noe that it finally feels that some of the initial inertia has gone [17:46] and been doing for the last five days [17:47] i mean that was always obvious to me, but people who are new to translations, maybe not [17:47] the desktop-guide-fi.po was an absolute mess [17:47] wow [17:47] slickymasterWork, ;) [17:47] and i'm sure there are guides for this, but they are very long and hard to read [17:47] ok, i need to go....cu later or tomorrow :-) [17:48] slickymasterWork, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation [17:48] no, something practical, based on what we've being catching as the major errors being sone [17:48] maybe we could also just try to improve that page... [17:48] or use that as a base at least [17:48] I thought you were referring to something that would be added to our Process page knome [17:49] there seems to be a lot of unnecessary stuff [17:49] * knome shrugs [17:49] the processes page starts to expand quickly :P [17:49] but maybe it can go there as well [17:49] I was think of juast a small section about it [17:49] but if there's an existing page somebody else maintains... [17:49] In Ubuntu 11.04, the principal Ubuntu help documentation is found in the gnome-user-docs package. [17:50] seems like not maintained lately .P [17:50] yeah, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Translation is a bit a wall of text [17:50] yes [17:50] there's a lot of ubuntu-specific stuff [17:50] the way I see it is like this: [17:50] and i'm sure, obsolete stuff too [17:50] we have a notion of what are the major errors people are making [17:51] in fact they're just three-four types [17:51] they are the items 1-3 in the first list [17:51] so there's a error pattern [17:51] plus i'd add that it's important to translate application names literally as they appear in the UI [17:52] exactly [17:52] because when we tell somebody to follow a path, they shouldn't need to do guesswork while following [17:52] do you have 10 minutes now? [17:53] if the phone doesn't ring [17:53] yes [17:53] haha [17:53] we can do it now [17:53] http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-translation-guidelines [18:03] knome: did you saw my question? [18:03] yes, see the chat [18:03] lol, forgot the pad chat [18:04] hey dolks [18:05] erm, folks too [18:05] sorry i didn't make it for the meeting [18:05] i'll quickly read the backlog and all [18:07] unfortunately i still have some other work to finish tonight :/ [18:10] ochosi: such is life :) [18:10] most important thing as far as I'm concerned is read my mail to dev list and do something if you can :) [18:10] if you can't you can't :) [18:13] elfy: yeah, i guess we have to try and get that issue fixed.. [18:13] could you quickly describe it to me so i know how/where to look? [18:13] or is it so obvious that i can't miss it? [18:14] ochosi: boot image - once at the try/install dialogue - choose install (that's what the tests all call for) then you should either get blank desktop [18:14] or you can install, then it goes blank apparently having died [18:15] what is happening is that the dialogues are 'offscreen' so you can focus and drag them so you can seem them [18:15] what I am trying to test as completely as possible is that everything works from livesession install icon [18:15] if so - I'd ack release tomorrow - but we need to make the issue as plain as day on r'notes [18:17] I'll try and get a summary onto a pad tonight [18:18] indeed [18:19] i wonder whether the screen size is miscalculated somehow [18:19] basically atm all we need is some people to hardware test as many options as possible [18:19] i guess the problem you mention happens both with vm and hardware? [18:19] ochosi: no idea I'm afraid - I did try bluesabre thing - no go [18:19] yep - had the same on hardware here [18:20] k [18:20] if it WAS just vm's - I would *shrug* [18:20] i'll do a quick vm trial in a bit then [18:20] ochosi: okey doke [18:20] any preference whether i do that in 32 or 64bit? [18:21] or is it all the same atm [18:21] please make sure if you report that you do comment as I asked in the mail [18:21] it makes no difference [18:21] k [18:21] just started the zsync [18:22] thanks ochosi :) [18:24] knome, I assume you're already adding the pad content to the Processes page, right? [18:24] or do you want me to do it? [18:24] not yet adding [18:24] i'm wondering whether we should drop it there, or do something else [18:25] we've discussed about the contributor documentation for a while.. [18:25] there, where? In the Pad? [18:25] this would be the first item that clearly would be suitable for that [18:25] now you lost me knome [18:26] og, for membership, you meean? [18:26] - e [18:26] you remember the discussions about potentially writing some documentation for new contributors? [18:26] yes [18:26] well this is it as much as anything is [18:26] so maybe we shouldn't bury this under the processes stuff [18:26] well it's a side of it, anyway [18:27] the package translations is something else that could go there [18:27] because if I remember it correctly, we also talked about writiing something on how to write documentation [18:28] i think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance is the poster child of non-new-contributor stuff [18:28] this is clearly something that is targeted to people who know $things already [18:28] but.. i guess the line is thing [18:28] *thin [18:29] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development this is the page i think this should go to [18:29] hmmm, that page is to buried it further than the Process one [18:29] but then again i'm not sure if it's a good fit there currently [18:29] I was talking about the Maintenance one [18:30] well anything under processes is more or less buried now [18:30] since i cleaned the starting page [18:30] which had became a wall of text [18:30] now it isn't and the stuff is organized by the target people [18:30] and/or usage needs [18:31] i would consider the current processes page more of a cheatsheet [18:31] the new guidelines we wrote are much more of a documentation type thing [18:31] as we stand now, the only logical candidate I see is indeed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development [18:32] some of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/ReleaseCycle is that too, but that's because it used to be in the strategy document [18:32] yes, but don't you agree that it's not really a good fit there? [18:32] so, it's either https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Development or create a new one just focused in Documentation [18:32] i guess the difference i'm trying to communicate is: [18:33] yes, I agree [18:33] the current stuff under development is specific by the xubuntu team [18:33] *specifiED [18:33] right [18:33] the new guidelines are specified by XML, eg. we *must* do this [18:33] there's no way we can control how xml tags are interpreted [18:34] the conventions... well, those are more xubuntu-specific, but then again they are very closely tied with the validity requirements in a social level [18:35] hmmm... aren't you starting to overthinking it knome? [18:35] no, i'm just making sure that future things we do have a clear place to go to [18:35] eg. if we want it all to be buried in a wiki that will eventually become a monster to maintain [18:35] or do something else [18:36] well think about this: [18:36] what if we write a section about writing and working with the documentation itself? [18:36] that surely isn't a process description as is [18:37] we haven't specified that it needs to be like this, the technical side requires it to be like it [18:37] another analogy: [18:38] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Maintenance currently describes the maintaining tasks we need to take for website and more [18:38] yeah, but we can incorporate that in a "How to potentially gain membership through -docs" and thus linked for example from the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument [18:38] the new guide we are writing is as if we wrote instructions on how to use wordpress to actually do that maintaining [18:38] but our intention is not that [18:39] no, we definitely don't want to to do that for the website stuff [18:39] but for the documentation stuff it might be required since people would otherwise need to do a lot of research [18:39] we could use your idea about writing and working with the documentation itself and fit it in the present scope of the team wiki [18:40] killing two rabbits [18:40] i know this is going overboard, but i really have to point this out too [18:40] http://xubuntu.org/contribute/translating/ [18:40] what's the point of this page [18:41] and the other similar pages, where do we draw the line [18:41] I see it as a complement [18:41] i think the website is nice and concise atm [18:42] the website is the first entrance for most users [18:42] it also describes the processes page function well: [18:42] contributing wise [18:42] For the full list of translations that are important to Xubuntu, please refer to the Processes page on the Ubuntu wiki. [18:42] and tbh, "Processes" is a bad name [18:42] that's nor present there [18:43] workflow? [18:43] yeah, something like that [18:43] I like it better [18:43] elfy: so at least xrandr is reporting the screen size correctly... [18:43] tell pleia2 you're going to rename pages and she'll murmur at you [18:43] it's more explanatory [18:43] that's your job :P [18:44] haha [18:44] tell pleia2 those nasty things [18:44] elfy: and yeah, *all* new windows are created offscreen [18:44] slickymasterWork, nooo, but she'll make me do redirects :( [18:44] lol [18:45] but seriously, I like your idea about writing and working with the documentation itself [18:45] but that's another discussion :D [18:45] and there are a lot more things we could document that would make new contributors more ease with the tools... [18:45] we just would have to figure/decide how/where to incorporate it in the present layout of the wiki [18:46] ...or does it have to be in the wiki? [18:46] I think it would have to [18:46] my wacky idea was to duplicate the base of the xubuntu documentation and make it a docbook thing. [18:46] and put it under docs.xubuntu.org/developers for example [18:46] and that's your fault, you always stressed the paperwork aspect of it [18:47] but of course, that's a different thing to maintain than the wiki [18:47] but it would allow us to present it in a better-looking format [18:47] are we the ones who maintain docs.xubuntu.org/? [18:47] yes [18:47] or, pleia2 does [18:47] (lots of pings for her today) [18:48] * slickymasterWork hides from pleia2 sight [18:48] so we could update it whenever we wrote new chapters to it [18:48] agree [18:48] but i'm sure there are people who are against putting it to docbook [18:48] that just might turn out to be the sanest solution [18:48] because the wiki is more easily editable by everyone and blah blah ;) [18:49] the other option is to create another subsection for the wiki [18:49] Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation [18:49] ali1234: actually it's a xubuntu issue, it's sorta release critical for b1, so if you have any idea how to find out why any new window is created offscreen in ubiquity-dm (only with xfwm4)... [18:49] and start gathering that kind of stuff there [18:49] yeah, but anyway there's only a bunch of us who deal with docbook markup so they'll going to say that it's our job [18:50] ali1234: and i presume that it's a recent regression with 4.11.3 as we haven't seen this before and i don't think ubiquity's window placement code has changed at all [18:50] writing developer documentation is something you can't do anyway if you're a newbie, so in that way being in docbook doesn't make it much more exclusive [18:50] the Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation idea was already thrown, but I was under the impression that it would serve another propose [18:50] it would be the same, just in the wiki [18:50] exactly what I was thinking ^^ [18:51] i'll have to think about it [18:51] tbh, i'd probably go for the wiki for starters [18:51] and i'd probably also move the important packages there too [18:51] because it's not specifically a workflow/process thing either [18:52] well, it isn't, but it also is at the same time [18:52] i've also long thought that the web presence page is in the wrong place [18:52] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/WebPresence [18:52] this [18:52] it should be under "Contact" [18:52] lol, was going to pop the question [18:52] which is currently a redirect to "Leaders" [18:52] but we should rename that to Contact [18:52] and fix that stuff [18:52] but meeeeh [18:53] that's a all different issue [18:53] reorganizing the wiki makes me cry [18:53] poor knome [18:53] it's so slow [18:53] elfy: btw, i have one fairly simple workaround for the window being offscreen: hit alt+f7 (shortcut for window-moving) and use the left-arrow button on your keyboard to move the window back onscreen [18:53] compared to for example reorganizing docbook... [18:53] elfy: i know it's not pretty though [18:54] ochosi, think he knows about that already, alt+space+m he told [18:54] ah ok [18:54] which is probably the same, or sameish [18:54] oh, that's the context menu [18:54] but yeah, pretty much the same process [18:55] yup [18:55] slickymasterWork, anything else on the pad? [18:56] i got to go AFK soon [18:56] but i'll be back relatively soon, like 1h max [18:56] actually, now [18:56] just added a small correction [18:56] bbiab [18:56] hope you're still around when i'm back :) [18:56] but I'm done with it now [18:56] i'll fix the wiki then... [18:56] I'll be home and around [18:56] great [18:56] after diner [18:56] see you then [18:57] :) [18:57] oki doke [18:57] --> [19:02] bbl -> [19:23] ochosi: that's in hardware yes? [19:23] no, in a vbox i just created [19:24] mmm not working here [19:26] crap [19:26] we don't set a shortcut for that by default [19:26] not sure why tbh+ [19:27] ok [19:27] it's weird anyway, the ubiquity standalone session is a bit useless [19:28] i mean basically you can start *everything* within that session [19:28] just right-click the desktop and it's all there... [19:28] yea [19:29] really - the bare minimum I guess [19:32] also, again uneven circles :/ [19:32] ugly progress-dots... http://i.imgur.com/eXCgpZa.png [19:33] ochosi, that's the smallest of the problems :P [19:33] ochosi, i mean even the shot you pasted looks okay [19:33] yeah, even pixel-size wise [19:34] also, i was mostly messing with elfy (obviously) [19:34] hah.. [19:34] :) [19:34] came just to pop in and out [19:34] -< [19:36] http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1 [19:36] draft release notes [19:37] btw, i think the workaround to move the window back on screen is good enough to publish the beta either way [19:39] ochosi: yep - I'm happy to publish as long as people have the info [19:40] hopefully by the next beta we'll have no major issues and can concentrate on bigging up xfce4.12 lol [19:44] bluesabre: ok, that other issue you mentioned with popup-windows not showing a frame can be worked around by deactivating "hide frame of windows when maximized" aka /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize [20:14] bluesabre: with "that other issue" i meant this of: https://i.imgur.com/hxmrz2d.png [20:17] slickymaster, i'm back [20:20] elfy: where do we track that ubiquity known issue? [20:20] Bug 1425047 [20:20] bug 1425047 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install (manual partitioning) in Xubuntu Desktop i386 for Vivid Daily doesn't finish installation" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425047 [20:20] right, but that is sort of a different thing [20:21] at least the description is misleading if it's supposed to be the same thing [20:21] that's the only tracking we've got currently [20:21] other than bits of writing on the pad and in my head [20:21] in that report it seems about more than just the window being offscreen, no? [20:21] k [20:21] ochosi: yes - but when the bug was reported - we weren't aware of the offscreen thing [20:22] tbf - when the bug was reported I was driving around in circles :p [20:23] understandable [20:23] no - I was actually doing that :D [20:26] ok, finally a pointer... [20:26] the _NET_WORKAREA window-manager hint is wrong [20:26] \o/ [20:28] humm, who's in charge of ubiquity again atm? [20:28] no idea tbh [20:28] ochosi: but the place to ask would be in -release [20:28] did you talk to anybody about the issues we're having yet? [20:28] yea - infinity and also cyphermox [20:29] who's in here [20:29] k [20:29] * ochosi waves at cyphermox [20:29] ochosi: does that hint only affect the install part then? or? [20:30] the hint states that the workarea starts at 1024px on the x coordinate instead of 0 [20:30] so all windows are off by 1024px [20:30] finished fiddling with the draft on the pad - special note at top for ochosi [20:30] (to the right) [20:30] ochosi: well that would explain that then [20:30] the window-manager should correctly set that hint [20:30] now i know that it's not doing that [20:30] but does it say something different for inside the livesession install ? [20:30] just not why :) [20:31] well - I could answer you - but then you'd know I'm not me :p [20:31] i'm going to the live session now to see whether that looks ok [20:32] ochosi, fwiw, moved (and redirected) the leaders page to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Contact [20:32] ochosi: well it certainly looks ok - and everything works as expected [20:34] yeah [20:34] the values there are correct [20:39] elfy: am i correct that the final "your installation window is complete" isn't showing because it's offscreen? [20:40] i didn't go that far with testing, but i wanna write down my findings in a bugreport [20:40] yep - it is there [20:40] I've successfully moved that to visible [20:45] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1425690 [20:45] Launchpad bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,New] [20:47] bluesabre: i tried to summarize my findings in this bugreport: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1425690 [20:47] Launchpad bug 1425690 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "New windows are created offscreen" [Undecided,New] [20:47] (sorry for double-posting) [20:50] also ali1234 ^ in case you wanna help out with that (since you know more about wms than most or all of us here) [20:50] ochosi: thanks :) [20:53] np, i think this is as far as i can go tonight [20:53] yep - fair to say we're unlikely to get a fix before tomorrow afternoon? [20:54] bluesabre: also, i think by not actively painting the desktop black we'd be able to see the wallpaper as set by xfwm4 (the "xprop -root" output i added to that bugreport i linked to above clearly indicates that that root pixmap is set). maybe i forgot something or why we paint it black in the first place... [20:54] elfy: i guess, but i'd rather wait for bluesabre's feedback on that [20:54] ok - well I'll see that in the morning I suspect then [20:55] yup [20:55] mark the slickymaster bug dupe of the new one? [20:56] which it is - we just only had half a story [20:57] are you sure? [20:57] i thought there was another issue there [20:58] possibly - but only because people start adding stuff [20:58] k, lemme re-read it then [20:59] the hfs business I read in a good install as well [20:59] oh ok :) [21:00] then let's mark that as a duplicate of mine [21:00] might be a bug - but I think it's a red herring in slickymaster's bug - which when he originally pinged me was about the failing install [21:00] which WAS about the offscreen the install has finished - restart or not message [21:01] because if you just reboot after it would normally have been done (in time) the install is fine [21:01] and cyphermox is talking about the offscreen windows in that bug - he's #11 [21:02] yup [21:02] realized that [21:02] i marked it as a dupe now [21:02] hah - double marking to make sure then :p [21:03] anyway, i need a break, i'll be back in a bit [21:03] feel free to adjust the link in the pad though, if you can [21:03] yea - thanks - cya tomorrow I suspect [21:03] if not, i'll do it when i come back [21:03] elfy: Right, so upgrade testing. 1. Install utopic from core, make sure xubuntu-desktop isn't installed, upgrade. 2. Install utopic from core, make sure both xubuntu-core and xubuntu-desktop aren't installed, upgrade. 3. There might be a 3rd, maybe one that removes a keyDep, but I don't see why as that's out of the context of this. Case #1 should upgrade without installing a meta. Case #2 [21:03] sure, to the worst ttyl [21:03] should install xubuntu-desktop. [21:03] Unit193, write a testcase ;] [21:03] knome: Just did. :----D [21:04] Unit193, no, with the preferred testcase format you silly. :) [21:04] Not even sure what that is. :P [21:05] Unit193, i will have no problems digging that up for you! [21:05] Unit193, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ContributingTestcases/ManualStyleGuide [21:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/TestCaseFormat#contribute [21:05] Maybe I should stop fixing things... [21:06] it's basic HTML [21:06] basically put it in a
[21:06] actions in
, expected results in
[21:06] easy? [21:15] ochosi: the _NET_WORKAREA indicates something made a strut that completely covers the screen [21:16] ali1234: yeah, that's what i thought [21:16] but the ubiquity panel seems fine [21:16] i haven't checked ubiquity's own window yet though [21:18] is this reproducable in virtualbox? [21:18] yeah [21:19] one sec, i'll pastebin the xprop for the panel [21:19] http://paste.ubuntu.com/10415147/ [21:19] it isn't necessarily the panel, any window can set struts [21:19] knome: http://paste.openstack.org/show/00D8WQZNhmX52XLQWCxx I don't know, something like that. [21:19] ali1234: i know, but there's only the desktop (doesn't set struts) and the ubiquity main installer window (doesnt set struts) [21:19] so the panel is the only thing left [21:20] Unit193: more or less - but indented and at ends [21:20] etc [21:20] Unit193, noo [21:20] but thanks for the basework [21:20] i'll fix that... [21:20] or even - look at an existing one ... [21:20] ochosi: okay it's the panel [21:21] i wonder how this is not a problem with other WMs though [21:21] the struts of the panel do look wrong indeed, they start with 1024 [21:21] it is a problem with other wms... [21:21] yeah, but from what elfy indicated we're the only ones seeing the issue [21:22] so the others seem to ignore the struts or whatnot [21:22] what panel is it? [21:22] ubiquity's builtin panel [21:22] i wouldn't be surprised if xfwm is the only wm that handles struts correctly [21:22] elfy, Unit193: http://paste.openstack.org/show/EHLS3jEd301wSHoUkizm/ [21:22] i can link you to the code/source, one sec [21:22] ochosi: I've not seen it in the 2 I looked at, but I am just running studio [21:22] elfy: studio is also using xfwm, so you should see it there too [21:23] yep - just going to confirm so they know [21:23] there were some changes in xfwm relating struts recently [21:23] my patch actually [21:23] however, it should only make it ignore struts [21:23] not unignore ones it previously ignored [21:23] and it shouldn't affect what the panel sets either [21:23] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/src/panel/panel.c [21:24] yeah okay this is just plain wrong [21:24] so somewhere in set_strut there is a buuuug :) [21:25] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/src/panel/panel.c#L249 [21:25] set_strut just does what the code tells it [21:25] the code tells it to make a strut convering the whole screen, so it does [21:25] haha [21:25] So dd is

not

. [21:25] widt [21:25] set_strut(GTK_WINDOW(win), width, 0, allocation.height, allocation.height, 0, width); [21:25] yeah [21:25] width = gdk_screen_width(); [21:25] the first width should be 0 [21:26] lol, that is an obvious one that even *i* see and understand [21:26] they should probably all be zero [21:26] the panel is always the full width and always at the top? [21:27] Unit193, semantically,
= definition list,
= definition title,
= definition definition [21:27] ali1234: yes [21:27] flexiondotorg: have you noticed any funny stuff with struts in ubiquity? [21:27] I think I'd rather mess with C. [21:27] ali1234: it's totally hardcoded and stuff, so no options [21:28] ali1234, No. Can you give me an an idea of what I should look for? [21:28] elfy, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/HardwareProfile [21:28] i'm not even sure that panel is shown in mate's installer, we had to opt in to get it [21:28] elfy, huhu... :) [21:28] flexiondotorg: ubiquity panel defines a strut covering the entire screen, and properly coded WMs then push all new windows *off* the screen because there is no workarea [21:28] knome: don't remember that one :) [21:28] ochosi, If you mean the ubiquity-dm panel then I use that. [21:29] elfy, well it's been hiding... [21:29] can you see how old they are :p [21:29] yes, 2012 [21:29] says at the page bottom [21:29] flexiondotorg: yeah i thought you did, cos you mentioned making indicators work in it, hence me asking [21:29] flexiondotorg: ah ok [21:29] elfy, pop in to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu to see the new header [21:29] ^ others too [21:29] ali1234, Never had an issue with it. Checked out OK on i386 and amd64 earlier. [21:29] weird though, i would presume that metacity handles struts correctly [21:29] ali1234, Just doing PowerPC tests now. [21:30] ochosi, Well possibly but I use Marco. [21:30] ali1234: i presume this would be enough? set_strut(GTK_WINDOW(win), 0, 0, allocation.height, allocation.height, 0, width); [21:30] ochosi, agree with this here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation [21:30] i'm zsync'ing xubuntu daily [21:30] ochosi: you don't even need that last width [21:30] ochosi, mostly on the outline where different stuff should be at [21:31] ali1234: ah yeah, overlooked that. i guess we should propose a branch asap so that it gets merged tomorrow and then we get a working b1 [21:31] ochosi: yeah, just reading the specs. as usual, they are confusing [21:31] actually [21:31] :) [21:31] you mean the advanced wm hints spec? [21:31] http://standards.freedesktop.org/wm-spec/1.3/ar01s05.html#NETWMSTRUT [21:32] yeah, that one is a bit hard to digest... [21:32] read it before as well [21:32] right i get it [21:32] first 4 numbers are the width of the border on that edge of the screen [21:32] so those should be 0, 0, allocation.height, 0 [21:33] the next 4 are the start and stop of the struts in the other direction [21:33] so those should be d/c, d/c, d/c, d/c, 0, width, d/c, d/c [21:33] d/c = don't care [21:33] wat, for realz? [21:34] translating that for the set_strut call you get... [21:34] (0, 0, 0, allocation.height, 0, width) [21:36] right, care to propose the branch since i'm still trying to bend my head around that description on fd.org? [21:36] i would like to talk to whoever wrote this first [21:36] can you bzr blame it for me? [21:37] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/annotate/head:/src/panel/panel.c ? [21:38] evan dandrea i guess [21:38] "add an installer session panel" looks like the one [21:38] that was 5 years ago though [21:38] yeah [21:39] ev [21:39] should be the nick ^ [21:39] found in #u-devel [21:39] why would you wanna talk about this issue with the author first? [21:39] i guess he doesn't even remember writing it since it's been 5yrs [21:39] there might be a good reason why it does what it does [21:40] i doubt it but you never know [21:40] i guess then propose the branch and ask him for review [21:40] you can specifically request him [21:40] good idea [21:40] then he gets notified and if there's a branch with the change and a comment from you, we can follow up by pinging the hell out of him tomorrow :D [21:41] i wonder why this was never a problem before [21:42] yeah, no clue [21:42] it seems like an obvious problem [21:44] hmm wait a minute [21:44] this actually should be okay [21:44] slickymaster, too late, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation/TranslationGuidelines [21:44] if left.end is allocation.height then it only covers the whole width [21:44] at the top of the screen [21:45] so what, xfwm4 misinterprets it? [21:45] could be [21:46] like how it misinterprets struts on multimonitor, thinking they cover the other monitors [21:46] I don't think ev will be of much help, he hasn't touched ubiquity in forever [21:46] http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=b97b14868e27e48d4d475ac0497726f16de9a4e1 [21:46] what is this [21:48] it's either that or this causing it http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=3f12ac8f92096ce562221622aa5ad2f45ae37006 [21:49] "awesome" [21:49] cyphermox: thanks for reading in! [21:49] the ubiquity code is actually wrong tho [21:49] evening cyphermox :) [21:50] there's no need to set two struts on the same area like that, the strut can be handled perfectly by the not-partial stuff [21:50] ochosi, are you reading what i'm pinging you with at all? ;) [21:50] elfy, was there something for the QA team we wanted xubuntu-specific instructions for? there's a wikipage for that now... [21:51] I intend to do us xubuntu specific instructions [21:51] put them under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/DeveloperDocumentation ... [21:53] ali1234: i suspect there must have been a good reason to have two; it will need some testing with the other wms. [21:57] i presume one is set as a fallback [21:57] for those that don't handle the _PARTIAL ones [21:57] so the problem here is that xfwm doesn't understand partial struts at all [21:57] ochosi: the thing is, it's completely unneccessary to use a partial strut here [21:58] the strut is the whole width and whatever height it is [21:58] that bit works fine [21:58] it's the partial one that is causing the problem [22:03] knome: so the dev docs are in an ok place imo, looks good [22:03] ochosi, and what about the introduction, you agree what it says? [22:04] yeah, looks ok [22:04] ok, also see the new contact page [22:05] (and you probably noticed the new banner too...) [22:05] yeah, much cleaner [22:05] thus better [22:05] yep [22:05] agree [22:05] i was also thinking about the timezone stuff [22:05] do people use it? [22:05] probably not a question to the team... [22:10] yeah, good question [22:11] knome, checking it [22:12] ali1234: so what's the conclusion here? if ubiquity is setting both struts correctly i guess xfwm4 should be fixed somehow [22:13] yeah [22:13] it mean refactoring workspaces.c [22:13] knome, seems good [22:13] and maybe some other stuff [22:13] but there's one odd thing that has to be corrected [22:13] will you do it, or can I? [22:14] slickymaster, as the documentation team lead, you could take a stance if something from http://xubuntu.org/contribute/development/ or http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ should be moved there, they seem to be pretty comprehensive [22:14] slickymaster, it's a wiki, i don't have the edit lock... :) [22:15] the easiest fix would be to just make ubiquity not set that partial strut [22:15] it's just that between point 3 and 4 of the 'Translation validity' section there's no
like between point 1 and 2 and point two and three [22:15] but there might be a reason why it does that [22:15] on it [22:16] slickymaster, ;) [22:16] * slickymaster is waking up the hamsters [22:16] slickymaster, you start to sound like an artist... [22:17] nopes, but I did work as a professional photographer on architecture for several years [22:17] knome: as in Documentation - Testing ? [22:17] elfy, no, as in "Quality Assurance - Testing" [22:18] slickymaster, ooh :P [22:18] knome: yea just saw that :) [22:18] elfy, and you too, maybe we should rethink our scopes now that we actually have that developer documentation [22:18] I refuse to use the word Scope [22:18] ahah [22:19] but you just did :( [22:19] well I'll not fall into that trap again :p [22:20] ;) [22:20] knome, what about linking "... file a bug against the package itself."? [22:20] i'll get you... [22:20] slickymaster, to what? [22:20] slickymaster, i mean, isn't that supposed to be a general guideline for all xubuntu translations [22:21] slickymaster, mostly documentation though, as the intro says [22:21] i mean i wouldn't want not to encourage these good conventions and validity concerns amongst all packages [22:21] if we said they only cover documentation... [22:21] tho link it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs [22:22] if there's something wrong with a tag in the docs, the bug should be raised against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-docs [22:22] slickymaster, yes, but you're missing my point [22:22] read the intro [22:22] These guidelines apply mostly for the Xubuntu documentation. They can generally be applied to any translation with minor modification. If unsure, ask the Documentation team members for assistance. [22:22] well, i guess minor modification could mean a different package [22:22] ok, I see what you mean [22:22] * knome shrugs [22:23] ali1234: "refactoring" in combination with any code parts doesn't sound like it's going to happen pre4.12 [22:23] slickymaster, give me an example of "Placeholders and variable names, such as %(variablename)s, $name or ${name}, should always be left untranslated." [22:23] ochosi: it would be helpful to know when the regression occured [22:23] slickymaster, i know you said $PACKAGENAME, but was there something else you had in mind? [22:24] yeah, but to be honest I don't remember now what it was :P [22:24] well tell me when you do [22:24] ali1234: either when we added the panel or when 4.11.3 hit the archives [22:24] yes [22:24] elfy: got an idea here? ^ [22:24] slickymaster, i think generally those can be translated, considering they are not technical variable placeholders [22:25] slickymaster, like %s somewhere (not in the documentation though) [22:25] ali1234: i guess to the worst we'll deactivate the panel again for xfwm4, it used to be pre-15.04 [22:25] ali1234: until *now* we didn't see a reason not to use it [22:25] slickymaster, and then again those variables might have a completely different meaning and it might be so that they can be changed [22:25] slickymaster, eg. localized date formats [22:25] slickymaster, then the translation string comment usually tells what to do though [22:26] perhaps [22:26] slickymaster, if it doesn't then it's an issue with the source [22:26] ochosi: no - I tend to just daily make sure the image boots and do a quick smoketest from livesession [22:27] that's it [22:27] elfy: so you'd have noticed this earlier? how far do your smoketests go? [22:27] ideally they shouldn't be there to begin with [22:27] slickymaster, no, they should be there [22:27] ochosi: no I'd not have noticed it earlier as the issue doesn't show up installing from the livesession [22:27] slickymaster, the portuguese way to format the date is probably different than the finnish way [22:28] but that's system bound [22:28] slickymaster, so it's a great thing that the software author enables the translators to use that [22:28] slickymaster, using the system format is not always possible or desirable [22:28] I'm aware knome [22:28] slickymaster, dates are just one of the examples [22:29] slickymaster, other examples are formatting various number things, like "Found %d articles" [22:29] my fear is that opening a window like that, enabling their translation might end up in a sort of mess like the one we're dealing now [22:29] slickymaster, in which the variable should be moved based on the language, eg. in finnish that would be "%d artikkelia löydettiin" [22:30] elfy: ok that means it could've been happening since we added the panel :/ [22:30] in that example you're not changinf the variable itself, just its placement [22:30] knome: ^ [22:30] changing even [22:30] slickymaster, sure, but i can't remember seeing a variable referenced by %(variable) [22:31] I'll have to dig it deeper [22:32] slickymaster, they probably exist, but maybe it would be better to say that separately with a blanket statement; "Different programming languages and software might have different variable syntaxes; make sure you are familiar with the appropriate software variable syntax when translating. More information on this can often be found in the translation string comment." [22:32] ochosi: possibly [22:32] anyway, those are guidelines, not an airtight ruleset knome [22:32] ochosi: I have run from the install option - but couldn't say when it was [22:32] that would work for me [22:32] knome: [22:32] slickymaster, yep. [22:33] slickymaster, we definitely don't use that kind of stuff in the documentation [22:33] elfy: okeydokey, well hopefully one of the ubiquity devs will be able to give some input [22:33] or we can try our luck with ofourdan tomorrow [22:33] i doubt the latter would result in a fix pre-b1 [22:34] but who knows [22:34] knome, do you want to rephrased point three then [22:34] ochosi: ack [22:34] slickymaster, i'd pop it off the list and put it somewhere else [22:34] slickymaster, but i don't have a strong opinion where [22:34] wandering off now - night all [22:35] slickymaster, or move it as the last item [22:35] same here [22:35] night [22:35] slickymaster, with a note that it doesn't concern the documentation [22:35] knome, it could be moved from validity to conventions [22:35] slickymaster, well actually, put it after the list as a paragraph ? [22:35] with that note [22:35] no, it's not a convention; if you misdo it, it can break the validity [22:36] you're right [22:36] well it will break the translation unless you are lucky :) [22:36] nighty elfy [22:36] night elfy, ochosi [22:36] yeah, but let's not push luck :P [22:36] ochosi, nghty [22:37] let's do it as you suggest [22:37] knome: [22:37] will you or shall i? [22:37] you can do it [22:37] ok, just a sec [22:38] done [22:38] * slickymaster checks [22:39] knome, what about Note being in bolf font? [22:39] just 'Note' [22:39] it's not that important [22:39] it's just a sidenote [22:39] not importance realted [22:39] * related [22:39] well it is [22:39] aesthetics [22:40] we don't want to drag focus to it since it's not even concerning our docs [22:40] lol [22:40] haha [22:40] :) [22:40] well, opinions... [22:40] but all and all, I think it was a good choice [22:40] even aesthetially, i think it's better like it is [22:40] +c [22:40] opting for the wiki solution [22:40] * knome "urses" the C key [22:40] at least for now [22:40] * knome hits it [22:41] knome is going msd [22:41] sigh [22:41] mad even [22:41] haha [22:41] i'm always mad at my c [22:41] :) [22:42] and it's one more asset to provide in the last translation call [22:42] yes, and a sensible one... [22:43] which reminds me that I haven't even started to look at the packages used by and essential for Xubuntu pt translations [22:44] hehe :) [22:44] good for you [22:44] no moral [22:44] ;) [22:44] write more documentation then... [22:44] I'll start it this weekend [22:45] there won't be so many strins to work on anyway [22:45] i should probably do some xfce translations [23:25] hey all [23:27] hullo bluesabre [23:28] hey knome [23:28] ochosi: saw the ping storm while I was away today... so where are we at? [23:57] knome, did you check https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/+imports lately? [23:58] two of your uploads failed [23:58] How is your testing going/ [23:58] hey bluesabre [23:58] for saucy and trusty... [23:58] * knome shrugs [23:58] yes [23:58] duplicate key value violates unique constraint "pomsgid_msgid_key" [23:58] DETAIL: Key (sha1(msgid))=(819d25f001723101cd015feeacde55ee233c7b8b) already exists. [23:58] hey slickymaster [23:59] i have no idea what that means, exiting debugging. [23:59] slickymaster, approved your es.po (if that needed doing so, i'm not completely sure what LP requires me to do, but what i've done has worked so far...)