[00:00] <slickymaster> good thing you did that knome, because the official reviewer was the one who caused all the mess to start with
[00:00] <knome> heh, ok
[00:01] <slickymaster> regarding your failed ones
[00:01] <slickymaster> duplicate key value violates unique constraint "pomsgid_msgid_key"
[00:01] <slickymaster> DETAIL:  Key (sha1(msgid))=(819d25f001723101cd015feeacde55ee233c7b8b) already exists.
[00:01] <slickymaster> that's what LP is whining about
[00:01] <knome> slickymaster, didn't you read what i said
[00:01] <knome> slickymaster, i pasted the same, then said:
[00:01] <knome> 01:59  knome: i have no idea what that means, exiting debugging.
[00:02] <knome> also note the time :P
[00:02] <slickymaster> yeah, seeing it now :P
[00:02] <knome> not interested in debugging
[00:02] <slickymaster> neither am I
[00:02] <knome> i'm translating xfdesktop :P
[00:03] <slickymaster> I'm still reviewing po files
[00:03] <slickymaster> fr.po
[00:09] <bluesabre> bbiab
[00:10] <bluesabre> ochosi: so, are we just going to drop the panel from ubiquity again?
[00:39] <slickymaster> knome, Unit193, I think we should drop the gthumb-web entity from xubuntu.ent 
[00:39] <slickymaster> what do you think?
[00:39] <knome> if it's not used, drop it
[00:40] <slickymaster> we removed it from the docs when we stoped shiping it
[00:41] <Unit193> Alright.
[00:41] <Unit193> Do a quick grep, just to confirm.
[00:42] <slickymaster> will do
[01:03] <slickymaster> Done. Pushed up to revision 301
[01:32] <bluesabre> Unit193: you around?
[01:50] <Unit193> bluesabre: Not for long.
[01:51] <bluesabre> hey Unit193 
[01:51] <knome> woot
[01:51] <bluesabre> was the decision to remove ubiquity panel again?
[01:51] <Unit193> I wasn't following that as closely, you would have to ask ochosi.
[01:54] <bluesabre> alrighty
[01:54] <bluesabre> I'm testing that now
[01:55] <bluesabre> thanks Unit193, carry on :)
[02:01] <bluesabre> and, that does fix the issue
[02:01] <bluesabre> suppose I should propose a merge for that, and get maybe, just maybe, get a rebuild before tomorrow's beta
[05:14] <ochosi> bluesabre: tbh dropping the panel again only makes sense if we decide we don't want it in the long run
[05:15] <ochosi> otherwise i agree with elfy that as long as we mention the problem and the simple workaround to get windows back onscreen, there is no problem with release b1 as is
[05:15] <ochosi> i'll try to find out what's wrong there with ofourdan
[05:18] <ochosi> also, did you read my other comment for the popup window without borders there?
[05:18] <ochosi> bluesabre: ^
[07:38] <ali1234> morning
[07:38] <ali1234> my internet died last night
[07:38] <ali1234> but it's back now
[07:39] <flexiondotorg> Morning
[07:40] <elfy> morning both
[07:40] <ali1234> ochosi: better to drop the panel than have this weird thing where it looks like the installer crashed, it hink
[07:40] <flexiondotorg> Regarding the off screen Ubiquity issue  you've seen.
[07:40] <elfy> ali1234: I believe that's what bluesabre's done 
[07:40] <ochosi> ali1234: i dunno, i'm not convinced
[07:40] <flexiondotorg> Does Xubuntu enable a compoistor by default?
[07:40] <ali1234> i doubt anyone will even notice panel/no panel to be honest
[07:41] <ochosi> the panel does add a few useful things, like being able to configure your network connection
[07:41] <ali1234> they'll sure notice if the installer doesn't work tho
[07:41] <ochosi> yeah, but it's only b1, there's still time
[07:41] <ali1234> there's the live session for that
[07:41] <ochosi> well there's always the live session for everything
[07:41] <ali1234> yeah agreed, this shouldn't be *that* hard to fix anyway
[07:42] <ochosi> imo xfwm4 *or* ubiquity need a fix
[07:42] <ali1234> did you figure out when regression actually happened?
[07:42] <ochosi> not yet, i couldn't work on this anymore last night, was getting too late
[07:42] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: i couldn't tell you off hand
[07:42] <ali1234> but we pretty much know the cause
[07:42] <elfy> flexiondotorg: it is enabled in livesession
[07:42] <ali1234> the only question remaining is why it ws never a problem before
[07:43] <ali1234> (and how to fix it)
[07:43] <ochosi> ali1234: btw, since you said PARTIAL_STRUTS aren't handled well by xfwm4, that's all the xfce4-panel sets...
[07:43] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, The only reason I mention it is because when I was adding Ubiquity support I was advised to enable compositing to ensure that ubiquity-dm rendered correctly.
[07:43] <flexiondotorg> So, Ubuntu MATE force enables the Marco compositor for installs.
[07:43] <ochosi> yeah, actually that might be another problem we're having, we currently enabling the compositor in our config, but we explicitely start xfwm4 without compositing in ubiquity-dm iirc
[07:44] <ali1234> ochosi: no it sets both struts BUT the non-partial ones don't make sense, and accordingo the spec the Wm should always ignore the struts if partial struts are set
[07:44] <ali1234> in that case you might ask why ubiquity sets both, and that's a very good question
[07:45] <ali1234> i think if it only set one or the other it would work
[07:45] <flexiondotorg> Until I enabled the compositor the ubiquity-dm panel was really messed up and they were all manner of other artifacts.
[07:45] <ali1234> also if it only set a top OR a left strut, that would also work
[07:45] <ali1234> basically it is setting 4 struts when it only needs 1
[07:46] <ali1234> so step 1. is to find out if there is actually a good reason why it does this. ie ask ev. if he says "i can't remember" then the chances are there is no good reason
[07:46] <ochosi> right, but from what i read in the spec, the wm should ignore the WM_STRUTS of the PARTIAL ones are set
[07:46] <ali1234> yes it should
[07:46] <ochosi> and it explicitely mentions you *may* set both
[07:46] <ali1234> step 2 is make xfwm3 do that
[07:46] <ochosi> as fallback for older wms
[07:46] <ochosi> i guess that's why ubiquity is doing that
[07:47] <ali1234> yeah the thing is the not-partial struts set by ubiquity are just plain wrong too
[07:47] <ali1234> so if that's he reason why it does it, then in fact it is only making things worse
[07:47] <ochosi> well that should be fixed in ubiquity anyway, no?
[07:47] <ali1234> yes unless there is a good reason why it does it
[07:48] <ochosi> but yeah, in fact from what i read in the spec, it does seem to set a bit too many struts in the partial ones, the top should be enough since it's fullwidth
[07:48] <ali1234> brb breakfast
[07:48] <ochosi> i guess asking ev is a futile exercise, as cyphermox indicated
[07:49] <ali1234> it can't hurt if you can find him
[07:54] <ochosi> i pinged him about it, but it may take a while till he gets back to me
[07:55] <ochosi> elfy: while sean proposed the branch last night, i think we should go ahead as planned and mark b1 ready with the remark in the release notes. chances to get his "fix" uploaded in time are slim anyway and i'd rather get to the bottom of this
[07:55] <elfy> ochosi: ok - agree with that
[07:59] <elfy> even if the fix gets put in - without the image rebuilding we'd not get a new one
[08:00] <elfy> ochosi: from the results on the tracker using LIVE the only ones we've not got coverage for are auto-resize for 64 bit 
[08:00] <elfy> everything else has a pass - so I'm happy with that 
[08:00] <ochosi> ok, i can quickly do that
[08:07] <ochosi> elfy: hm wait, for autoresize i already need something installed alongside, right?
[08:07] <elfy> yea
[08:08] <ochosi> hmpf
[08:08] <ochosi> that is not something i can do quickly after all...
[08:08] <ochosi> sry
[08:09] <elfy> well ... you need 1 installed, if you had windows and xubuntu for instance you can't - that's why I can't do that on hardware
[08:09] <elfy> ochosi: no worries - I'm sure that we're good - the issue we do have is about windows in install 
[08:09] <ochosi> bluesabre, knome, elfy: i think we need to drop our button icon size from 22px to 16px. as you can see in the screenshot, gtk3 already uses the smaller icons so we've got some nasty inconsistency there: http://i.imgur.com/tI5ocoE.png
[08:09] <elfy> I can do a vm one 
[08:10] <ochosi> bluesabre, knome, elfy: please lemme know if you strongly disagree, otherwise i'll push a fix for this to xubuntu-default-settings
[08:10] <elfy> I don't disagree 
[08:11] <ochosi> k, good to know
[08:11] <elfy> don't ask me to point out the inconsistencies - I looked for square circles - couldn't see any :p
[08:12] <Unit193> Clearly you weren't drinking enough.
[08:14] <ochosi> ehehe
[08:14] <elfy> if someone can run through the release note draft during the day that'd be helpful, normally only work a few hours Thursday
[08:14] <elfy> http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1
[08:17] <Unit193> Did someon NACK the merge proposal to remove the panel?
[08:19] <ochosi> Unit193: not yet, wanted to talk to bluesabre first
[08:20] <Unit193> Meanwhile, it's still pending and you have a race condition here.
[08:20] <ochosi> race condition=
[08:20] <ochosi> ?
[08:22] <ochosi> Unit193: could you please be a bit more verbose?
[08:36] <elfy> back for 30 mins or so in a few hours
[09:37] <ochosi> ali1234: "ev$ ochosi: unfortunately not - that was years and two jobs ago"
[09:38] <ochosi> so he has no recollection of the ubiquity panel's struts (no surprises there)
[09:38] <ali1234> he'd remember if there was an actual reason
[09:38] <ali1234> so i'm guessing it's just a bug
[09:38] <ochosi> probably, i still wonder why all other wms handle that
[09:38] <ali1234> because they use the partial struts
[09:39] <ali1234> metacity does, marco does because it is based on metacity
[09:39] <ochosi> but xfwm4 generally handles those too
[09:39] <ochosi> i mean even the xfce panel uses those
[09:39] <ali1234> no it doesn't
[09:39] <ali1234> look at the code, it only looks at the first four values
[09:47] <ochosi> elfy: evince maximize works again in vivid btw
[11:19] <bluesabre> ochosi: HEY
[11:19] <bluesabre> er
[11:19] <bluesabre> dang caps
[11:19] <bluesabre> :D
[11:19] <bluesabre> but also, HEY
[11:19] <bluesabre> so, want me to cancel my MR?
[11:22] <bluesabre> Unit193's "race condition" is that the longer it sits, the more likely it is to get merged, so if we want to cancel it, sooner better than later
[11:23] <bluesabre> in the case of panel vs. no panel, the installer lets you configure the network connection ... and if for some reason you click cancel, you end up at the live desktop anyway
[11:25] <ochosi> bluesabre: hey
[11:25] <ochosi> without caps
[11:25] <bluesabre> oh goodie
[11:25] <ochosi> right, well i think that for a respin it's a tad late so i think we should just roll with it
[11:25] <ochosi> i've commented on the MR so i don't think it'll just get merged straight away
[11:25] <bluesabre> ah, ok
[11:26] <ochosi> so there are two separate issues in xfwm4 that sorta need fixing either way
[11:26] <ochosi> the removed borders on unmaximized windows
[11:26] <ochosi> (i pointed you to the workaround for that, maybe we should apply that to x-d-s asap)
[11:27] <ochosi> and the struts problem, which causes the oddities we've been seeing in ubiquity-dm
[11:30] <bluesabre> ochosi: can you paste your workaround again... its been lost in the wave of backlog
[11:37] <ochosi> bluesabre: set /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize to FALSE
[11:37] <bluesabre> ochosi: will you be around today?
[11:37] <ochosi> nope, actually i gotta take off for work in a few mins
[11:37] <bluesabre> ah
[11:38] <ochosi> i'll be around in the evening
[11:38] <ochosi> well, what is my evening here
[11:38] <bluesabre> well, when you get back this evening... https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11568
[11:38] <ochosi> that'll be your afternoon
[11:38] <ochosi> yeah, i already looked and commented on that today ;)
[11:38] <ochosi> as you might've seen/read
[11:38] <bluesabre> it looks like its crashing at a g_print/g_warning
[11:38] <ochosi> hmm
[11:38] <bluesabre> yeah, more comments after you
[11:38] <bluesabre> so we're passing something in that is empty/uninitialized
[11:39] <bluesabre> I might be able to figure it out in a few, if not, you can dig in
[11:39] <ochosi> well the last comment/bt i didn't really understand
[11:39] <ochosi> i didn't see anything that made sense to me in that 2line bt
[11:40] <ochosi> it just says it has trouble with some var, but no hint as to what or where
[11:40] <bluesabre> right
[11:40] <bluesabre> g_error/g_warning use g_logv
[11:40] <bluesabre> so we might have 
[11:40] <ochosi> a-ha
[11:41] <bluesabre> g_warning("Hello %s", someVar);
[11:41] <ochosi> so either this: g_warning ("Could not open file \"%s\"", filename);
[11:41] <bluesabre> but someVar is already freed
[11:41] <ochosi> or more likely this: g_warning ("Couldn't load icon: %s", error->message);
[11:41] <bluesabre> right
[11:41] <ochosi> those are the only two
[11:41] <bluesabre> then that's the offender most likely
[11:42] <ochosi> i guess we need a check whether error is actually not NULL
[11:42] <ochosi> or uninitialized
[11:42] <ochosi> i mean tbh it should never get there... the icon shouldn't be nothing since we load a fallback
[11:43] <ochosi> maybe we should create yet another else to just use a blank pixmap instead of the image-missing, if it's missing
[11:43] <bluesabre> yeah
[11:44] <bluesabre> I think thats the ticket
[11:44] <ochosi> about the xfwm4 workaround: you can test that in the ubiquity live session and by changing that option you'll see the problem goes away
[11:44] <bluesabre> oh nice
[11:44] <ochosi> we could do that and drop the warning altogether
[11:44] <ochosi> i mean who cares if the icon cannot be found
[11:45] <ochosi> or do you think anyone will look at the output for error messages about bad icon themes..?
[11:46] <bluesabre> nope
[11:46] <bluesabre> I'll drop that now
[11:46] <ochosi> ok cool
[11:46] <bluesabre> and then we can use NULL instead of populating error
[11:46] <ochosi> sounds good
[11:46] <ochosi> after all, nothing else in xfce really logs warnings with g_warning...
[11:47] <ochosi> i mean in that dialog :)
[11:48] <bluesabre> :)
[11:48] <ochosi> will you be around today?
[11:48] <ochosi> i mean i'll return around 8utc i guess
[11:49] <bluesabre> well, I'll push this patch and comment on the bug, you can do more damage control if this is the wrong (or 1/2) area for crash
[11:50] <ochosi> right, be aware that the tester has no clue how to apply a pathc
[11:50] <ochosi> patch
[11:51] <ochosi> i'm even surprised he managed to build things correctly
[11:51] <bluesabre> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/commit/?id=500f6937ae707c611db246bb2c7c4b05cccb92c9
[11:51] <bluesabre> :D
[11:51] <ochosi> elfy: i've read through the release notes, they're fine from my pov, the xfce updates are plenty and i'm not sure whether we can/shall list them (esp thunar, xfwm4, panel)
[11:52] <bluesabre> let's just be appreciative that we can get this patch in before saturday
[11:52] <ochosi> lol, nice patch
[11:53] <bluesabre> ochosi: like to release notes? sorry, been chasing bugs :D
[11:53] <ochosi> http://pad.ubuntu.com/VividBeta1
[11:54] <bluesabre> line 1 should no longer be the case..?
[11:54] <ochosi> some circles are ellipses :'(
[11:54] <ochosi> (ubiquity progress dots at the bottom)
[11:55] <ochosi> also it's just elfy poking fun at me i think
[11:56] <bluesabre> ah, thought those were intentional
[11:56] <bluesabre> :D
[11:57] <ochosi> soo, i really gotta run now
[11:57] <ochosi> i hope you two can finish up the rest of the new features, the rest seems okay to me
[11:57] <ochosi> and even as it is, i think most new features are mentioned
[11:58] <bluesabre> I'll work on it
[11:58] <ochosi> thanks
[11:58] <bluesabre> thanks ochosi, have a fun day
[11:58] <ochosi> so again, you'll be around later today or not?
[11:59] <bluesabre> 2130 UTC
[11:59] <ochosi> (i'm just asking cause you asked me :))
[11:59] <ochosi> alrighty, i guess we'll talk then
[11:59] <bluesabre> cool
[11:59] <bluesabre> seeya
[11:59] <ochosi> yup, hf too!
[12:01] <brainvvash> good news, well "good"
[12:01] <brainvvash> bug 1425401
[12:01] <brainvvash> it noti area crashes in xfce and mate
[12:01] <brainvvash> the
[12:10] <knome> ochosi, you don't have any other examples of the 16px icons?
[12:25] <bluesabre> most gtk3 apps have dropped button icons altogether
[12:25] <bluesabre> if we really wanted to standardize, that's what we'd need to do
[12:27] <knome> though imo no icons/icons isn't as bad as no icons/smaller icons/larger icons
[12:27] <knome> :P
[12:29] <dkessel> knome: german just surpassed finnish in the docs translations :p
[12:30] <knome> boo hoo
[12:31] <knome> but is it contributed by one person :P
[12:34] <elfy> ochosi: it's elfy poking fun at elfy :)
[12:36] <elfy> bluesabre: ^^ re the circles are all squares :P
[12:47] <elfy> I'm anticipating only doing release notes for xubuntu.org today, if anyone else feels the need for a wiki one too - be my guest - but don't do it yet :)
[12:59] <bluesabre> elfy: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11601 I'll be fixing that one today and it will be out with this weekend's release :)
[13:00] <bluesabre> or rather, everybody else is fixing and I'll commit
[13:00] <bluesabre> :D
[13:02] <elfy> bluesabre: \o/ as soon as I see it I will unpin v35 and enable proposed :p
[13:02] <elfy> I'm just off - I have marked us ready
[13:03] <elfy> I'll double check the beta notes so I can do the Ubuntu wide release announcement 
[13:03] <elfy> going to be waiting on studio I think ... 
[13:03] <bluesabre> elfy: thanks
[13:04] <elfy> by the time the flavours should run milestones gets around to Xubuntu again - we should be post 16.04 :D
[13:04] <elfy> bbl
[13:06] <bluesabre> bbl
[13:23] <Akusari> hello
[13:25] <Akusari> i'd like to learn more about xfce4 indicators, specialy too add an indicator-plugin for the message panel . Where can i find more documentation and/or example written in C/C++or java?
[13:27] <brainvvash> you mean unity indicators?
[13:27] <Akusari> nope, i want it for xfce4
[13:27] <brainvvash> so you want to code a panel plugin?
[13:27] <Akusari> but if thry run on unity its ok
[13:27] <Akusari> yeah
[13:28] <Akusari> e.g the email icon is there and shoe something on my desktop (top right, after the clock)
[13:29] <Akusari> i think its the xfce4-panel and thats supports plugins
[13:30] <brainvvash> https://wiki.xfce.org/dev/howto/panel_plugins
[13:30] <Akusari> i found some phyton examples, but that doesn't fit into my skill :-P
[13:30] <brainvvash> also http://ecc-comp.blogspot.de/2015/02/a-simple-tutorial-for-xfce-panel-plugin.html
[13:31] <Akusari> perfect thanks!
[13:32] <Akusari> I want to write a little monitor/alert plugin. i'm not sure if something exist already. It should monitor syslog/kernel stuff and support manual scripts
[13:34] <brainvvash> maybe http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/panel-plugins/xfce4-genmon-plugin
[13:36] <brainvvash> you could contribute to this plugin, if it already does most of the things you need
[13:39] <Akusari> thanks, i'll take a look  :-)
[13:42] <Akusari> i guess it's not shipped with xubuntu?
[13:43] <brainvvash> not by default, but it is installable
[13:43] <Akusari> i search for "genmon" but no hit (synaptic)
[13:44] <brainvvash> xfce4-genmon-plugin
[13:44] <Akusari> thx :-)
[13:47] <Akusari> I just took a quick to the git repo. The master branch looks odd. It looks like only some translations was done over last years. Maybe it's time to add some new things :-) 
[13:48] <brainvvash> possible, some panel plugins are not maintained anymore
[13:48] <brainvvash> but patches are still welcome I'd guess
[13:48] <Akusari> i hope so. we will see :-)
[13:49] <Akusari> and if not, hey its GPL ;-)
[13:49] <Akusari> this would be not my first time i fork a gpl project with a new name and continue the development
[13:51] <Akusari> but in this case it not my intension to do so
[13:51] <brainvvash> it's not really xubuntu related, so maybe we should stop the talk :)
[13:51] <brainvvash> feel free to fork it
[13:52] <Akusari> xfce is xubuntu :-) so the plugins as well, but i know what you mean
[15:43] <flexiondotorg> Are you guys having panel crashes on i386 only too?
[15:45] <slickymasterWork> flexiondotorg, oni386 for sure
[15:46] <slickymasterWork> can't say anything abour amd64 though
[15:46] <slickymasterWork> elfy is the one to confirm that
[15:46] <flexiondotorg> slickymaster, Interesting. I can only reproduce the notification tray crashing on i386. powerpc and amd64 are fine.
[15:48] <slickymasterWork> brainvvash_: do you have any extra info regarding flexiondotorg's ping ^^
[15:50] <brainvvash_> no, but someone should inform #ubuntu-devel about this
[15:51] <slickymasterWork> bluesabre, Unit193 ^^^
[15:53] <brainvvash_> lp report https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1425401
[17:03] <knome> brainvvash_, and you can't do that because...?
[17:03] <brainvvash_> because I am not in that channel
[17:05] <slickymasterWork> hey knome 
[17:05] <knome> brainvvash_, and you can't join that channel because...?
[17:06] <brainvvash_> instead of asking stupid questions, why don't you inform the guys in ubuntu-devel?
[17:07] <knome> brainvvash_, instead of telling other people to tell somebody, why don't you simply do it yourself?
[17:07] <knome> brainvvash_, i *really* don't understand why somebody else should tell something to somebody else on your behalf
[17:08] <knome> brainvvash_, how is *that* saving time or effort?
[17:08] <brainvvash_> on my behalf? I don't have anything to tell them
[17:08] <knome> then why should somebody else have?
[17:09] <knome> are you doing this only for your own benefit?
[17:09] <knome> why would other consider doing something for somebody else if you don't?
[17:10] <brainvvash_> because they care about this bug
[17:10] <knome> who are "they"?
[17:10] <brainvvash_> other
[17:11] <knome> well if you don't care about the bug, why do you take the time to notice people on this channel?
[17:11] <brainvvash_> I was ask about it
[17:11] <brainvvash_> if i can provide more info
[17:12] <knome> well i still don't understand why joining the channel and telling yourself is really so much more that you can't take it
[17:13] <brainvvash_> "because I am not in that channel"
[17:14] <knome> you just typed more letters in this channel that it would have taken to join AND part that channel, so you're not making any sense
[17:15] <brainvvash_> randomly linking something there and leave won't help
[17:15] <knome> how would it be less random if i did that; i don't even know the background of the issue
[17:15] <knome> but whatever
[17:15] <knome> if you aren't willing to help, maybe consider not telling other people to do that as well
[17:15] <knome> because that's not really helping the cause
[17:16] <brainvvash_> other people? I did not name anyone
[17:16] <knome> this is nothing personal, i just don't enjoy seeing people telling "others" should do something they could do theirself
[17:18] <brainvvash_> thank you for pointing that out
[17:18] <knome> well, eh, you're welcome
[17:19] <knome> slickymasterWork, hullo
[17:20] <slickymasterWork> o/
[17:30] <elfy> knome: if you've time can you look at http://xubuntu.org/?p=3033&preview=true 
[17:30] <elfy> url's are all funky :p
[17:31] <knome> very
[17:31] <knome> i'll try to fix the issue mentioned in -ot first..
[17:31] <elfy> need to deal with the global announce stuff first 
[17:43] <knome> bluesabre, ochosi: a fix for the bug elfy mentioned in -ot (https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11601) looks like something we want in 4.12, tell me if i can help with it :)
[17:43] <knome> bluesabre, ochosi: patch exists
[18:36] <elfy> knome: fixed the funkiness - just need a double check of it 
[19:20] <elfy> ok - published
[19:21] <elfy> for better or worse, can people like knome and pleia2 do the socially media stuffs :)
[20:04] <knome> elfy, oh, sorry, i forgot to look at that
[20:04] <knome> i'll tweet
[20:05] <elfy> thanks knome :)
[20:05] <elfy> I found it in the end - knew it had to be a missing > or somesuch - and was :p
[20:05] <knome> heh
[20:06] <knome> ough, there's some weird markup
[20:06]  * knome fixes
[20:08] <elfy> this is sort of one of those things in that 'bottom area' we discussed the other day
[20:08] <knome> mmyep
[20:10] <knome> elfy, see the footer now
[20:11] <knome> hmm not 14.10
[20:11] <elfy> :D
[20:11] <knome> hmm that's the best one
[20:12] <knome> let me tweak it a bit more
[20:12] <knome> or at least, test something else
[20:12] <elfy> I obviously like that there :)
[20:12] <knome> hmm yeah, i have another issue to fix for 3.0 ;)
[20:13] <knome> but yeah, it's good as it is now, it just could be easier on the backend
[20:14] <elfy> does that get changed on wp-admin?
[20:15] <knome> yep
[20:15] <knome> elfy, under appearance -> widgets
[20:16] <knome> elfy, it's in the "footer 1" area
[20:16] <elfy> aah right - got it 
[20:18] <knome> elfy, currently we have to squeeze it all in one widget since otherwise it'd go into columns
[20:18] <elfy> right
[20:18] <knome> i'm thinking to add one more widget area for this kind of things that would automatically stack vertically
[20:18] <knome> then another that does the columns if we add more widgets
[20:18] <knome> tbh, the wordpress core should start taking care of things like this...
[20:18] <elfy> :)
[20:18] <knome> or at least i'm waiting for that day
[20:19] <elfy> ha ha 
[20:19] <knome> but i'm not sure if it will happen
[20:19] <knome> themes control the appearance, so meh
[20:19] <knome> another option would be to allow CSS classes per widget
[20:19] <knome> but some widgets do that manually already, so that's meh too ;)
[20:20] <knome> the only sane option is to have "too many" widget areas if you happen to need them
[20:20] <knome> or if you want to change the appearance for them
[20:25] <elfy> I suppose so :D
[20:25] <knome> well that's not sane...
[20:26] <knome> you shouldn't have to have unused widget areas
[20:26] <elfy> I'll assume you weren't excpecting a balanced reply from me - as most of what you said is stuck in the wall above my head
[20:26] <knome> but then many people who maintain the content probably aren't so nitpicky than i am ;)
[20:26] <elfy> but I can get behind that last comment :)
[20:26] <elfy> not that last one 
[20:26] <elfy> the one before :D
[20:26] <knome> lol
[20:26] <knome> well it's true
[20:27] <knome> i'm nitpicky with my stuff, fortunately i have full access at all times to my personal blog files... ;)
[20:27] <elfy> :D
[20:30] <knome> elfy, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10435735/
[20:31] <knome> elfy, change the last two lines to those at /usr/share/xfce4/helpers/firefox.desktop
[20:32] <knome> elfy, fixes the firefox issue we were talking before
[20:33] <elfy> change the ones in the desktop file to match the paste? 
[20:33] <knome> yep
[20:33] <elfy> having a go at that then 
[20:34] <knome> i can confirm it works :)
[20:34] <elfy> okey doke :D
[20:35] <knome> the source of the bug is actually firefox...
[20:35] <elfy> who'd have thought it ... 
[20:35] <knome> hehe
[20:35] <knome> the mozilla devs...
[20:35] <knome> they changed the parameter syntax
[20:35] <knome> well, dropped the one we were using
[20:37] <elfy> yep - working here too :)
[21:04] <ali1234> bluesabre, ochosi what's happening with bug 1425690 then?
[21:05] <ali1234> i just sent a MR to "fix" the ubiquity struts, hopefully explaining the situation as best i can
[21:05] <ali1234> i even drew a picture
[21:06] <elfy> :)
[21:06] <ali1234> also i can't really test this at all because i have no idea how to poke around and replace files in a live install environment
[21:19] <elfy> ali1234: that'd be why I couldn't do a thing too
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> elfy, Thanks for your help getting Beta 1 sorted 😃
[21:20] <elfy> flexiondotorg: welcome ofc :)
[21:22] <flexiondotorg> Just toss is that GTK2 was reved a few days ago. Wondering if that might be related to some of the issues we've seen?
[21:26] <elfy> well - final beta in a few weeks 
[21:29] <flexiondotorg> My post above was a typo.
[21:29] <flexiondotorg> *Just tossing out there that...
[21:29] <flexiondotorg> And, it was my fault 😕
[21:30] <elfy> flexiondotorg: it is dark out 
[21:30] <flexiondotorg> ?
[21:31] <elfy> blame that :)
[21:37] <elfy> flexiondotorg: anyway - well done for getting done what you have in the last few days :)
[21:38] <flexiondotorg> Thanks.
[22:06] <elfy> ochosi bluesabre - so to sum up - released, notes done on x.org
[22:06] <elfy> if either of you feel it necessary to have wiki notes - I'll ack - but not do them :)
[22:07] <flexiondotorg> elfy, Interested in what you guys did to "better support CSD"?
[22:07] <elfy> flexiondotorg: then you'd probably be better asking someone else :p
[22:08] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, ^^^^^
[22:08] <elfy> if you've not worked out by now - code is worse than Jupiterese to me 
[22:08] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: nothing :P
[22:09] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Ellaborate 😉
[22:09] <ali1234> see https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10631
[22:10] <ali1234> tl;dr i wrote a patch to make it kind of work, it hasn't been applied, so gnome forced the issue by forcing full CSD if it detects a compositor
[22:10] <ali1234> this caused a whole load of problems, some of which have been fixed, some of which haven't
[22:10] <ali1234> CSD is currently a total mess
[22:10] <ali1234> ubuntu typically patches it out though, so xubuntu is not affected
[22:11] <ali1234> we try to avoid shipping anything that uses it
[22:13] <ali1234> there is also this https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway
[22:14] <ali1234> and this https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
[22:14] <ali1234> the former turns headerbars with buttons into toolbars
[22:14] <ali1234> the latter kills CSD
[22:15] <brainvvash> patches not welcome?
[22:16] <ali1234> nah, i never thought it should be patched unless gnome gave something in return, like a way to turn the damn things off
[22:16] <ali1234> but they weren't willing to do that
[22:16] <ali1234> so now i refuse to work on it further
[22:16] <brainvvash> =S
[22:18] <ali1234> so basically this all amounts to nothing, in practice, because none of this code actually got used anywhere
[22:18] <ali1234> and we rely on ubuntu patching CSD and headerbars out of things like gnome-calculator
[22:20] <ali1234> the actual reason the xfwm patch wasn't applied was because ofourdan didn't like the idea of flipping theme pixmaps from the bottom to the top. even though it works fine with all the most popular themes. but it look swrong if the theme has a drop shadow. still better than nothing in my opinion, and i did allow the theme developer to specify a custom image - the flipping was just a fallback
[22:21] <ali1234> but then after the last gnome changes it became moot anyway
[22:22] <brainvvash> well, if ubuntu stops patching these apps, we could just switch to the MATE ones :)
[22:23] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: if you see a change labelled "better support CSD" it's most likely to be a theme change
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> Ah.
[22:23] <ali1234> brainvvash: yeah, +1
[22:23] <ali1234> mate's calculator looks nice
[22:23] <ali1234> "galculator"
[22:24] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, I've been prototyping this to "combat" CSD.
[22:25] <brainvvash> caja is the only app I've tried so far (just to compare it with thunar)
[22:25] <ali1234> i don't think thunar will be using CSD any time soon
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> http://i.imgur.com/kgVwVyv.png
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> Those are 2 CSD applications.
[22:26] <ali1234> looks like headeraway
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> Not perfect yet, but getting there.
[22:26] <ali1234> i killed the extra label in the middle as well ("simple scan")
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> I'm scoping a solution I want to pitch to the GNOME/GTK devs.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, How?
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> I've not figure that out yet.
[22:26] <ali1234> with a preload library
[22:26] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> OK. That is how I am achieving the other bit.
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> Thank you.
[22:27] <ali1234> gtk_header_bar_new returns a gtk_box instead
[22:27] <ali1234> gtk_header_bar_set_title just sets the window title instead
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> Nice.
[22:28] <ali1234> and the _pack_ functions are adapted to add the things to the box
[22:28] <ali1234> generates a lot of gtk warnings because you are feeding it the wrong object type
[22:28] <ali1234> but it works
[22:28] <flexiondotorg> You might be interested in this.
[22:28] <flexiondotorg> https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd
[22:28] <ali1234> i just linked to that above
[22:28] <flexiondotorg> Unstable. But useful 
[22:28] <ali1234> it's slightly different to headeraway
[22:28] <ali1234> but works similarly
[22:29] <ali1234> all this stuff could be done as a proper patch to gtk that could be turned on/off through environment settings
[22:29] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, Precisely what I am scoping.
[22:30] <ali1234> i would support this, but i didn't particularly feel like fighting this fight myself
[22:32] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, No. I would have done it sooner but I agree with what you say.
[22:32] <flexiondotorg> ali1234, They do seem to be giving more ground recently though.
[22:37] <ali1234> i think it's because things are stabilizing finally
[22:38] <bluesabre> good evening folks
[22:39] <elfy> hey bluesabre :)
[22:39] <slickymaster> hey bluesabre 
[22:39] <bluesabre> ooh, people are around :D
[22:39] <elfy> yep - you must be early :D
[22:39] <knome> nooo, it can't be
[22:40] <knome> we are the robots
[22:40] <slickymaster> or we're running later
[22:40] <elfy> nope
[22:40] <elfy> I'm still awake :D
[22:40] <knome> yep, it's not even midnight UTC ;)
[22:43] <elfy> lol
[22:46] <bluesabre> knome: going to fix the firefox thing tonight
[22:46] <elfy> works here :)
[22:47] <bluesabre> ali1234: nice graphic for the struts issue
[22:47] <brainvvash> bluesabre, http://git.xfce.org/xfce/exo/commit/?id=8022a52d10e834ef4481a317b11d6fe02a6c1bf3
[22:47] <brainvvash> too slow :P
[22:48] <bluesabre> I think the decided goal was fix it in xfwm and ubiquity, and if not, drop teh panel for beta2
[22:48] <elfy> bluesabre: what's your opinion on us stabilising on just one release note?
[22:48] <ali1234> xfwm is going to be a pain
[22:48] <ali1234> the struts code is bad
[22:48] <elfy> rather than what we do currently
[22:48] <ali1234> it *can* be fixed though
[22:48] <ali1234> it might even fix a load of other bugs
[22:48] <bluesabre> brainvvash: good to see hjudt got to it before I did
[22:48] <knome> bluesabre, i think hjudt is on it ;)
[22:48] <bluesabre> elfy: I'm perfectly content with just one
[22:49] <bluesabre> knome: I know I know
[22:49] <bluesabre> so slow so slow
[22:49] <knome> heh
[22:49] <elfy> ochosi: ? what's your opinion on us stabilising on just one release note?
[22:49] <knome> bluesabre, you got to get up the speed
[22:50] <elfy> bluesabre: slow slow catchy the worm 
[22:50] <elfy> the really fast ones have to make do with sheep and stuff
[22:51] <elfy> :p
[22:51] <bluesabre> :)
[22:51] <bluesabre> still catching up on today's backlog
[22:51] <elfy> :)
[22:51] <elfy> ochosi said you were having problems with that 
[22:51] <elfy> was that just a time thing?
[22:53] <knome> catching up with sheep?
[22:53] <bluesabre> the whole issue with xfce and ubuntu development happening primarily in Europe while I'm at work? :D
[22:54] <elfy> aah 
[22:54] <elfy> so yes - time with a capital "There are timezones?"
[22:55] <elfy> :)
[22:55] <bluesabre> still not sure what version of Eastern TZ Unit193 has, he is on often regardless of the hour
[22:55] <elfy> bluesabre: I think the best thing to do with Unit193 is ignore time :D
[22:55] <ochosi> evening folks
[22:55] <ochosi> holy crap
[22:56] <elfy> bluesabre: on the other hand - you can just ask people to summarise at the end of their day :D
[22:56] <elfy> then just read one line :)
[22:56] <bluesabre> :)
[22:56] <ochosi> if you have that amount of backlog all the time, i get why you have trouble following up, bluesabre...
[22:56] <elfy> ochosi: words in channel ? 
[22:56] <elfy> :D
[22:56] <ochosi> been pinged so often it'll take an hour until i've caught up or so
[22:57] <elfy> do what I do - just say no - I didn't catch that when people ask :)
[22:57] <bluesabre> :)
[22:57] <elfy> I do try to just ping people when I need a response 
[22:57] <ochosi> yeah, makes sense
[22:58] <ochosi> but i'm sorta responsible or "in the loop" with so many bugreports atm, that i feel i *have to* follow up
[22:58] <ochosi> cause release time and al
[22:58] <ochosi> l
[22:58] <elfy> generally the things I need - everyone else can follow what I'm saying at the time I guess
[22:59] <elfy> not an easy thing to deal with I guess]
[22:59] <ochosi> ali1234: you should really add that graphic to the wm-hints docs! well done
[22:59] <elfy> without an invite only channel and just be very specific about pings 
[23:00] <ochosi> yeah
[23:00] <ochosi> can be a pain, then again, many days of the year, that channel wouldn't be needed...
[23:00] <elfy> yea
[23:00] <elfy> doesn't need to be hidden - just voiced I suppose
[23:01] <ochosi> prolly
[23:01] <elfy> anyway - thoughts :)
[23:02] <elfy> ochosi: my last ping to you was a serious one though - you got a problem with us stabilising on one release note?
[23:05] <bluesabre> 99 problems, but a release note ain't one
[23:05] <elfy> yep 
[23:05] <knome> lol
[23:05] <elfy> but I don't have to worry about the others bluesabre 
[23:05] <knome> elfy, feel free to contact me on the note problemos
[23:06] <elfy> bluesabre: and then it's final beta - and I'm wandering about trying to decide which to do - again 
[23:06] <elfy> or release day 
[23:06] <elfy> or any of the others 
[23:07] <elfy> if I could do more then I would
[23:07] <knome> elfy, well tbh i'm happy you can't... then you'd probably do less of what you did now and we need that done too :)
[23:07] <elfy> mmm
[23:10] <ochosi> phew, done with #xfce-dev, now xubuntu-devel...
[23:10] <ochosi> so elfy, lemme try to answer your question before digging into that
[23:11] <ochosi> have the release-notes changed alot since i reviewed them today?
[23:11] <knome> i don't think so
[23:11] <ochosi> still the pad?
[23:11] <knome> it's released...
[23:11] <ochosi> oh, we lost the blue sabre
[23:11] <knome> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-15-04-beta-1/
[23:12] <elfy> ochosi - that's not what I need, I'm happy to be responsible for it so other's can forget about it
[23:12] <ochosi> hm, missing space after lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings
[23:13] <knome> that must be me
[23:13] <elfy> but I'm not going to do 2 :)
[23:13] <knome> fixed
[23:15] <flexiondotorg> How did Xubuntu decide what language to include and ship?
[23:16] <holstein> flexiondotorg: AFAIK, thats decided by ubuntu
[23:16] <flexiondotorg> holstein, Really?
[23:16] <holstein> to support english, mostly.. is that what you mean? 
[23:16] <knome> it's a historical process, at one point we shipped as many languages as we could fit on the ISO, based on the speaker count of the language
[23:16] <flexiondotorg> I checked what the various flavours were providing and it was different.
[23:17] <flexiondotorg> knome, OK.
[23:17] <ochosi> elfy: ok, finally caught up, what can i do for you again?
[23:17] <knome> ochosi, i'll have some cookies and hot chocolate
[23:17] <ochosi> yummy
[23:17] <holstein> also, with internet access being as it is, its not as big a deal for an installer to just DL what it needs, now
[23:17] <holstein> more so than in the past..
[23:17] <knome> ochosi, i thought you would *do* them..
[23:17] <ochosi> oh
[23:18] <ochosi> i just thought they were yummy
[23:18] <knome> :D
[23:18] <elfy> ochosi: do you have an issue with us just having 1 release note - either on website or as wiki
[23:19] <elfy> I'm happy to take responsibility for IT :)
[23:19] <knome> let me explain why it is now - for another historical process and marketing gobbledigook:
[23:19] <knome> (doesn't mean how you need to do it in the future)
[23:20] <ochosi> elfy: oh, i'm fine with only website tbh. apart from markup, is there any reason for having both? knome?
[23:20] <elfy> knome: hang on
[23:20] <knome> the website one is the one that is mostly directed at non-technical people who should mostly be concerned about the worst known issues
[23:20] <zequence> When are you expecting the next xfce release?
[23:20] <elfy> regardless of before 
[23:20] <knome> and maybe the highlights
[23:21] <ochosi> zequence: this weekend
[23:21] <zequence> ochosi: Thanks
[23:21] <knome> the wiki one has used to be the one with a full listing of bugs, bug fixes and whatever, for those who are interested in the minutiae of the technical side as well
[23:21] <knome> elfy, i know, i just wanted to explain what we're doing now :)
[23:21] <elfy> mmm
[23:21] <elfy> knome: you got 10 to go PM with this? 
[23:22] <knome> ochosi, we would have to check if the release team wishes to point to wiki pages for flavors' notes, otherwise no blocker there
[23:22] <elfy> take it out of here for a moment 
[23:22] <knome> wfm :)
[23:22] <bluesabre> maybe just the wiki for final releases?
[23:22] <bluesabre> it can be a wasted effort between milestones
[23:22] <elfy> bluesabre: that makes a lot of sense for one major reason
[23:23] <elfy> they don't do most milestones so "full listing of bugs, bug fixes and whatever" only apppears then
[23:23] <knome> otoh, doing the release announcement (at least the final) is good to do on the website, because then it'll get posted to planet ubuntu
[23:23] <bluesabre> oh
[23:23] <knome> and it *is* the priority output for stuff to *users*
[23:23] <bluesabre> not what I meant in my order of workds
[23:23] <bluesabre> *words
[23:24] <bluesabre> website only for milestones, wiki+website for final releases
[23:24] <bluesabre> we can edit the wiki as we go throughout the dev cycle to have a complete item by release time
[23:25] <ochosi> +1
[23:26] <bluesabre> elfy, knome: thoughts?
[23:26] <knome> bluesabre, wait
[23:26] <bluesabre> I wouldn't be opposed to regularly contributing to that myself with changes
[23:30] <elfy> bluesabre ochosi - how about I try and come up with some sort of proposal for the whole of that with knome - then discuss that ?
[23:31] <ochosi> sure
[23:31] <bluesabre> alrighty
[23:31] <elfy> :)
[23:31] <ochosi> bluesabre and me will work on really important stuff and leave you to the admin fun ;)
[23:31] <bluesabre> let me know when/if you'd like my input... I'd certainly like to help more on that side
[23:37] <knome> working on a proposal with elfy :)
[23:40] <ochosi> ali1234: that ubiquity panel bug was sorta touched by bdmurray, did you talk to him or did he just notice?
[23:40] <ochosi> ali1234: and, is there anything i should follow up on here or are things moving in the right direction already with the MR?
[23:41] <ali1234> i didn't, no
[23:42] <ochosi> k
[23:42] <ochosi> maybe cyphermox can take a look at your merge request (https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/ubiquity/struts/+merge/251173)
[23:42] <ali1234> i don't think there's anything else to do. i mean you could try building the patched ubiquity and testing it with every WM/installer
[23:42] <ochosi> (most subtle ping ever)
[23:42] <ali1234> but that's a huge pita
[23:42] <ali1234> i did CC him on it
[23:42] <ochosi> Unit193: as our iso specialist, how hard would that ^ be?
[23:43] <ali1234> apparently you can do it by copying in the patched ubiquity before the installer starts up properly
[23:43] <cyphermox> o/
[23:44] <elfy> hi 
[23:44] <bluesabre> ubiquity can be tested by killing in on the live cd, this method works for me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1375893/comments/4
[23:45] <elfy> thanks bluesabre :)
[23:45] <elfy> I have done that - but forgot :)
[23:45] <ali1234> bluesabre: boot to live desktop?
[23:45] <ochosi> evening cyphermox!
[23:46] <bluesabre> boot to install
[23:46] <bluesabre> tty1
[23:46] <bluesabre> stop processes, update ubiquity, start ubiquity
[23:46] <ochosi> "talk to you one"?
[23:46] <ochosi> :]
[23:46] <bluesabre> it sometimes only works one or twice in a session
[23:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: works in vbox too, right?
[23:46] <bluesabre> with ubiquity failing to start up later, but it works for quick testing patches
[23:46] <bluesabre> ochosi: yes
[23:47] <ochosi> cool
[23:47] <bluesabre> right-ctrl+F1
[23:47] <cyphermox> ochosi: hey, good evening
[23:47] <bluesabre> hey cyphermox 
[23:48] <ochosi> so let's get to testing this patch by ali1234 then to see whether it fixes things..
[23:49] <cyphermox> ali1234: so, steps to test this aren't *that* bad. you spin up an iso image, pass break=bottom to the command-line and when you get a prompt, you use it to retrieve a pre-build new panel binary with your changes into the root filesystem. But *that* part, copying files and setting up the right environment to be able to do it, is a little more tricky
[23:49] <cyphermox> I run a small webserver on my machine to be able to wget the files I need
[23:50] <ali1234> yeah that's what i would do
[23:50] <ali1234> just wget the bin...
[23:50] <ali1234> on a completely unrelated note, it would be nice to get this fixed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/1270090
[23:50] <cyphermox> so, I'll get started on testing this, but not just now. I'm waiting for my wife to pick me up and then I'll be out for a good part of the evening
[23:51] <ali1234> if someone could bump my patch for vivid that would be helpful
[23:51] <ali1234> i never know how to do the changelogs etc for the packaging
[23:52] <cyphermox> ok
[23:53] <cyphermox> I think the patch probably won't need much updating
[23:53] <cyphermox> looks like g-s-t is still at 3.0.0
[23:53] <ali1234> i don;t think the package has been touched in years
[23:53] <cyphermox> ... but that means it's also likely that it will break as soon as someone touches it
[23:53] <ali1234> my patch is actually a patch to a patch :)
[23:53] <zequence> ali1234: polkit is needed here, I assume
[23:54] <cyphermox> ah, maybe not, it's a slightly new revision for vivid
[23:54] <zequence> synaptic is a good example on how to a gksudo replacement
[23:54] <ali1234> it uses packagekit, not sure about deps but it built in a ppa for trusty
[23:55] <cyphermox> ali1234: I'll see if I have the time to look at that later tonight
[23:55] <zequence> "pkexec synaptic" will prompt for a sudo password, since there are polkit rules for it
[23:55] <ali1234> zequence: synaptic is not installed by default though
[23:56] <zequence> ali1234: Just saying you could look at that package for seeing how it is done
[23:56] <ali1234> packagekit is better than synaptic anyway
[23:56] <ali1234> the ntp installer thingy is actually a distropatch anyway, so i just changed it to use packagekit instead of synaptic, and keepng the same function prototypes
[23:57] <zequence> ok, I wasn't talking about package managers. Just about how to get sudo privilege using polkit
[23:59] <zequence> If you install synaptic, you won't be able to run it just with "synaptic". You need to use polkit, and thus, you need to do: "pkexec synaptic", which works, since the synaptic package also installs polkit rules
[23:59] <zequence> polkit being policy kit
[23:59] <ali1234> yeah, i know all about this
[23:59] <zequence> ok, good
[23:59] <ali1234> it's not relevant for this particular package because all it wants to do is install some other packages