[00:00] <zequence> Don't know the details. Just saw the remark about gksudo
[00:00] <zequence> ..which is why I started talking about polkit
[00:00] <ali1234> it used to do "gksudo synaptic" but neither of those are available in a default install... and this package *is* in a default install
[00:01] <zequence> ok, graphical package installation is beyond me anyway
[00:02] <zequence> Each time I try showing someone how to use Ubuntu Software Center, I realize it's not doing things so well
[00:02] <ochosi> cyphermox: thanks a bunch! your efforts are much-appreciated!
[00:02] <ali1234> it's surprisingly easy actually. and packagekit doesn't load up the full software centre
[00:03] <ali1234> i'm not sure what it does load, but basically it just shows a small UI for password and then a progress bar. very minimal
[00:03] <ali1234> same thing the software updater does i suspect
[00:03] <zequence> an apt fronten then?
[00:04] <ochosi> ali1234: if you know how to use packagekit, the parole gst plugin installer could use a bump (neither bluesabre nor i really have time to learn packagekit unfortunately)
[00:04] <ali1234> i guess. packagekit works with rpm too though
[00:04] <ali1234> ochosi: was just thinking about that
[00:04] <ochosi> we have several bugreports that are all because of the silly gst scripty installer
[00:04] <zequence> Ah, it's supposed to work the same over all distributions
[00:04] <ochosi> it's almost never working at all
[00:05] <ali1234> yeah that thing never works :(
[00:05] <ali1234> i just install mpv and it does everything :P
[00:05] <ochosi> heh
[00:05] <ochosi> parole works well though in general
[00:05] <ali1234> http://www.freedesktop.org/software/PackageKit/files/session.c <- this is how you do it
[00:05] <ochosi> (as long as all needed plugins are installed)
[00:06] <ali1234> it's really simple
[00:07] <ali1234> just fill const gchar *packages[] and feed it to that block of code
[00:08] <ochosi> still, i'm so caught up with the 4.12 release that i don't think i wanna focus on anything new atm
[00:08] <ochosi> so patches would still be much appreciated
[00:08] <ali1234> i'm pretty busy here too
[00:08] <ali1234> maybe some day though
[00:08] <ochosi> okeydokey
[00:28] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-release-notes-process
[00:28] <knome> ochosi, bluesabre ^
[00:28] <knome> that's using the same base we do now, but with more emphasis on wiki than before
[00:36] <bluesabre> knome, elfy: looks good to me
[00:36] <elfy> :)
[00:37]  * bluesabre remembers to upload Unit193's packages
[00:38] <knome> that's good
[01:27] <pleia2> elfy: oh yeah, I did the fb and g+ things hours ago but forgot
[01:28] <knome> hmm
[01:28] <knome> and i should have tweeted
[01:28] <knome> BAH
[01:28] <knome> people should tell me when i'm silly
[01:29] <pleia2> knome said he'd tweet so I didn't do that
[01:29] <pleia2> :P
[01:29] <knome> i just did
[01:29] <pleia2> \o/
[01:47] <bluesabre> :D
[04:29] <cyphermox> ali1234: I just finished fixing up your patch changes for g-s-t, going to see if it still builds
[04:30] <cyphermox> (and if it still works)
[05:07] <cyphermox> ali1234: looks great, works fine, but I still need to make sure what is the best way to make sure packagekit is always available when that package is installed... ie. Depends on packagekit, but that doesn't seem like the best of ideas.
[05:07] <cyphermox> and then possibly a freeze exception
[09:48] <ali1234> cyphermox: thanks very much. i assume freeze exception is much like asking for a SRU? if so, i can write that up
[13:55] <flexiondotorg> Are you seeing general gtk2 stability issues in i386?
[13:55] <flexiondotorg> Seems most issues being found in Ubuntu MATE 15.04 are gtk2 released.
[13:55] <flexiondotorg> And i386 only?!
[13:55] <flexiondotorg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1425499
[14:56] <knome> flexiondotorg, i think the cross-flavor/flavor agnostic QA issues would be better in #ubuntu-quality 
[15:33] <ali1234> flexiondotorg: random crashes are bad news. do you have access to e.u.c?
[15:33] <flexiondotorg> e.u.c?
[15:33] <ali1234> https://errors.ubuntu.com
[15:34]  * flexiondotorg goes to e.u.c to see if I can access
[15:34] <ali1234> you can see the general stats but not the individual reports, unless you specifically ask for permissions
[15:35] <flexiondotorg> Well, I see something.
[15:35] <ali1234> the interface is a bit hard to use and quite slow
[15:35] <ali1234> i don't see a huge amount of gtk2 related stuff in 15.05
[15:41] <brainvvash> ali1234, run hexchat and then xfwm4 --replace (built-in compositor enabled)
[15:41] <brainvvash> probably 32bit only crash
[15:43] <ali1234> brainvvash: nothing unusual happened
[15:44] <brainvvash> hexchat tray icon was visible, right?
[15:45] <ali1234> no idea, what does it look like?
[15:47] <brainvvash> strange question, does starting hexchat add anything to the notification area?
[15:48] <brainvvash> the little hexagon icon
[15:49] <brainvvash> or the thunar copy tray icon
[15:49] <brainvvash> may trigger the crash too
[15:50] <ali1234> brainvvash: yeah the icon is there
[15:51] <brainvvash> up-to-date 15.04 (32bit)?
[16:05] <ali1234> no
[16:05] <ali1234> trusty 64 bit
[16:06] <brainvvash> then you cannot trigger the crash
[16:29] <ochosi> cyphermox: ping
[16:30] <cyphermox> ochosi: pong?
[16:30] <ochosi> cyphermox: quick question, since i presume you're fairly familiar with ubiquity's codebase (which i'm not, at least not really)...
[16:30] <cyphermox> getting there ;)
[16:30] <ochosi> it seems to set the popup dialogs to horizontally maximized
[16:30] <ochosi> at least that's what xprop tells me
[16:31] <ochosi> and that leads to our wm removing the dialogs borders, because it thinks it's tiled
[16:31] <cyphermox> could that not also be caused by the struts?
[16:31] <ochosi> visual outcome: https://i.imgur.com/hxmrz2d.png
[16:31] <cyphermox> I don't recall seeing anything to maximize dialogs in ubiquity
[16:31] <ochosi> xprop of the dialog window: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10450617/
[16:31] <ochosi> it says
[16:31] <ochosi> _NET_WM_STATE(ATOM) = _NET_WM_STATE_MODAL, _NET_WM_STATE_MAXIMIZED_HORZ
[16:32] <ochosi> me neither, but i've only very briefly browsed the source
[16:33] <cyphermox> nah, I think that may be just how gtk builds the dialogs given what we pass to them, but I can look
[16:35] <ochosi> hmmm
[16:35] <ochosi> k, thanks
[16:44] <ochosi> cyphermox: maybe it's really the struts causing that, the dialogs seem to be fairly standard gtkdialogs from what i see
[18:54] <ali1234> cyphermox: i just noticed my ubiquity patch won't work because it will refuse to do anything if you tell it left_size = 0
[20:02] <elfy> Unit193: something up with core? Seems stuck rebuilding for the last 12 hours
[20:15] <ochosi> knome: you asked me for more 16px shots with context, sorry that got lost, i've been too busy/distracted with tons of other stuff...
[20:15] <ochosi> basically you can very easily test it
[20:17] <ochosi> if you wanna test it, just run this in a terminal:
[20:17] <ochosi> xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/IconSizes -s "gtk-button=16,16"
[20:17] <ochosi> to revert, replace 16,16 with 22,22
[20:33] <ochosi> or just ""
[20:59] <elfy> ochosi: I need to add in today and tomorrow for the 'up to end Feb' sticker list
[20:59] <elfy> beta list is done and we has first person to contact :)
[20:59] <ochosi> nice!
[21:01] <elfy> postponing autopilot on the blueprint 
[21:02] <elfy> I'm not sure we're ever going to get anywhere with that 
[21:05] <ochosi> not sure what's needed for that, i haven't really looked into autopilot at all (ever)
[21:05] <ochosi> isn't gtk3 a requirement for that?
[21:13] <elfy> ochosi: yep
[21:13] <ochosi> right, in that case we have to wait till xfce is ported :)
[21:13] <elfy> it actively hates on gtk2 :p
[21:13] <ochosi> otherwise it won't make much sense
[21:13] <elfy> well yes - that 
[21:13] <elfy> also - actually getting them done :)
[21:17] <ochosi> well we can start that when xfce 4.14 is approaching release ;)
[21:17] <elfy> :)
[21:18] <elfy> I'm more than happy to not keep putting it on blueprints to then POSTPONED during the cycle :)
[21:39] <elfy> jjfrv8: re dailies - they'll continue to have the issue in 'Install' until the fix lands 
[21:45] <elfy> slickymaster: I finally got around to finishing https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1391636/+merge/245409
[21:45] <elfy> removed menu bar completely :)
[21:45] <slickymaster> yeah, I saw the notification
[21:45] <slickymaster> I'll review it this weekend
[21:45] <elfy> no rush - when you get to it :)
[21:46] <slickymaster> I know, no sweat
[21:51] <ochosi> jjfrv8: so we're using greybird from now on for xfce docs screenshots \o/
[21:52] <ochosi> jjfrv8: the rest of the screenshot guidelines remains intact though
[21:52] <slickymaster> ochosi, those changes, were they saved on http://smdavis.us/doku/doku.php?id=playground:sceenshot-stds?
[21:53] <ochosi> nope
[21:54] <ochosi> in fact for that part, the "theme config" part can completely go away
[21:55] <slickymaster> regarding the icons, ochosi, we're still going with Elementary Xfce?
[21:55] <ochosi> only for parole
[21:55] <slickymaster> oki doke
[21:55] <ochosi> because xfce in general used faenza
[21:55] <ochosi> to make this a smaller departure from previous screenshots (so that we don't have to redo all of them immediately) we're sticking to those for now
[21:55] <ochosi> maybe in the next iteration we'll only update icon theme and keep greybird
[21:56] <slickymaster> ok, I'll update that page accordingly 
[21:56] <ochosi> http://docs.xfce.org/contribute/documentation?&#screenshots
[21:56] <ochosi> for reference
[21:57] <ochosi> ty slickymaster 
[21:57] <slickymaster> np
[23:13] <ochosi> bluesabre: btw, ali and olivier poked the ubiquity panel situation quite a bit tonight
[23:13] <ochosi> since this is sorta xubuntu-exclusive, i'm mentioning it here
[23:14] <ochosi> the outcome is that we should try to fix the struts the ubiquity panel sets, cause those are faulty
[23:14] <ochosi> but it seems xfwm4 might also have to do a better job at dealing with these situations
[23:14] <ochosi> (although that panel seems an extreme case)
[23:15] <ochosi> i'd say if it's not resolved until shortly before b2, we drop the panel again
[23:15] <bluesabre> ochosi: sounds good to me
[23:17] <bluesabre> ochosi: tons of backlog, anything in particular I should note?
[23:17] <ochosi> for which channel specifically?
[23:17] <ochosi> or just in general?
[23:17] <bluesabre> any
[23:17] <bluesabre> in a bit of a hurry, gotta run again in a bit
[23:18] <ochosi> right
[23:18] <ochosi> nah, i think nothing too important
[23:19] <bluesabre> anything you need me to fix tonight?
[23:19]  * ochosi checks...
[23:19] <ochosi> oh btw, one more remark wrt ubiquity
[23:20] <ochosi> the popup dialog loses its border because for some weird reason it's marked as partially maximized
[23:20] <ochosi> i.e. horizontally maximized
[23:20] <ochosi> (in the wm hints)
[23:20] <ochosi> xprop tells you that
[23:20] <ochosi> that's why xfwm4 strips the deco
[23:20] <ochosi> could be related to the struts mess though
[23:20] <bluesabre> yeah
[23:20] <ochosi> but if not, we can resolve it by flipping the switch on the option i mentioned the other day
[23:21] <bluesabre> was going to apply the xfconf setting, but not an easy way to do for just ubiquity
[23:21] <ochosi> yeah
[23:21]  * bluesabre looked into it last night
[23:21] <ochosi> i guess it'd have to be a general setting
[23:21] <ochosi> unfortunately you can't start xfwm4 with a specified profile or give it options on the cli
[23:22] <ochosi> at least afaik
[23:22] <bluesabre> In generally, I don't like losing window manager borders when tiling, etc
[23:22] <ochosi> s/generally/general/
[23:22] <bluesabre> fullscreen is ok, otherwise meh
[23:22] <bluesabre> yeah
[23:22] <ochosi> yeah, i agree
[23:22] <bluesabre> typing fast and talking at the same time
[23:22] <ochosi> i also argued that with olivier for a while today
[23:22] <ochosi> :)
[23:22] <ochosi> but he wants to keep the status quo, because then windows tile correctly
[23:23] <ochosi> otherwise terminals and other windows that set size increments leave spaces in between
[23:23] <ochosi> which actually sucks
[23:23] <bluesabre> ah
[23:23] <bluesabre> that explains that difference
[23:23] <ochosi> yup
[23:23] <bluesabre> was overjoyed to see CSDs working well in trusty with -staging today (at work)
[23:24] <ochosi> fwiw, that problem still exists with corner tiling
[23:24] <bluesabre> geary looks much better with just one title
[23:24] <ochosi> because with corner-tiling you still keep the deco
[23:24] <ochosi> so the terminal is not tiled correctly
[23:24] <ochosi> yeah
[23:24] <bluesabre> so corner tiling is sane at least ;)
[23:25] <ochosi> i actually think we should change our strategy in one of the next releases wrt CSD
[23:25] <ochosi> and just keep whatever upstream does
[23:26] <bluesabre> I don't mind CSDs as much anymore, it works well for some things (not all, silly gnome)
[23:26] <ochosi> yeah
[23:26] <ochosi> especially apps that don't rely on menubars :)
[23:26] <bluesabre> I think at this point, xfwm4 handles csds better than unity
[23:26] <bluesabre> and mate
[23:26] <bluesabre> we're leaders :D
[23:26] <ochosi> that's quite probable, i think compiz has only been patched so-so for CSDs
[23:27] <ochosi> cause the unity guys don't like them (or some of them at least)
[23:28] <bluesabre> no menus takes away several unity benefits
[23:28] <bluesabre> s/takes/take
[23:28] <bluesabre> maybe
[23:28] <ochosi> yeah
[23:28] <ochosi> well some
[23:29] <bluesabre> <3 hud
[23:29] <bluesabre> when using inkscape and gimp, at least
[23:29] <ochosi> yeah
[23:29] <ochosi> i'd love to have that in xubuntu
[23:29] <ochosi> but that's for another day ;)
[23:29] <bluesabre> yeah
[23:30] <bluesabre> one day
[23:30] <ochosi> a single day
[23:30] <bluesabre> after I finish the keyboard-overlay
[23:30] <ochosi> that should be enough
[23:30] <ochosi> haha
[23:30] <bluesabre> yeah
[23:30] <bluesabre> optimistic
[23:30] <bluesabre> ;)
[23:30] <ochosi> yeah, your first xubuntu project iirc
[23:30] <ochosi> luckily we didn't judge you based on that ;D
[23:31] <bluesabre> nope
[23:31] <bluesabre> I started complaining about icons and parole
[23:31] <bluesabre> and then catfish
[23:31] <ochosi> hehe
[23:32] <ochosi> yeah, i remember a daily stream of bugreports i had to tackle
[23:32] <bluesabre> ;)
[23:32]  * ochosi tries not to feel nostalgic about that