[00:50] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, looks pretty much the same
[01:26] <bluesabre> knome: its the only other theme we install, it must be important ;)
[01:27] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: alrighty, let's go with gtk3 for now :)
[01:27] <Noskcaj> in the ppa
[01:27] <bluesabre> good job
[01:27] <bluesabre> :)
[01:28] <knome> bluesabre, squeak squeak
[01:43] <bluesabre> knome: moo moo
[01:43] <knome> :)
[01:43] <bluesabre> ochosi: do we want to set /xfwm4/general/borderless_maximize to FALSE in x-d-s?
[01:46] <knome> bluesabre, np: Edson / I Am the Ostrich
[01:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: wat, when does the work finally end? i thought we just *released* something big??
[01:47] <ochosi> and no, we don't have to
[01:47] <knome> i knew we'd have questions about 4.12 in trusty... i've seen several today already
[01:47] <ochosi> obviously you didn't read the memo (despite releasing it) http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/commit/?id=b7b62c69add6a4bf5d6bde52548b5346d3a78265
[01:47] <knome> lol
[01:48] <bluesabre> :D
[01:48] <bluesabre> I copy and paste like a champ
[01:48] <knome> oh, so that's how you got your job
[01:48]  * knome hides
[01:48] <ochosi> hehe
[01:48] <bluesabre> :D
[01:49] <bluesabre> working with jquery, I spend a lot of time copy-pasting, yes
[01:49] <knome> hah!
[01:49] <knome> that's cheating
[01:49] <ochosi> hah
[01:49] <knome> jquery is relatively easy
[01:49] <knome> *i* can write it..
[01:49] <bluesabre> yeah, I can write it no problem
[01:49] <knome> ochosi, https://twitter.com/xfceofficial/status/571784832092659712
[01:49] <bluesabre> its the libraries that use it that kill me
[01:50] <bluesabre> but thats -offtopic :P
[01:50] <knome> heh
[01:50] <bluesabre> brb, time for a clean reboot
[01:50]  * knome prepares going to bed
[01:51] <ochosi> hmm, what do we have in the PPA already?
[01:52] <Noskcaj> All the stuff that isn't versioned as 4.12 should be done in PPA
[01:53] <Noskcaj> plus dev-tools and xfdesktop4
[01:53] <ochosi> wait, all the stuff that is *not* ?
[01:54] <Noskcaj> e.g. garcon
[01:54] <Noskcaj> part of the 4.12 release, but not 4.12.*
[01:54] <bluesabre> ochosi: Noskcaj has been packaging things, going to start syncing to our PPAs
[01:54] <ochosi> ah ok, not yet synced
[01:54] <ochosi> that's what i wanted to know
[01:54] <ochosi> thanks Noskcaj!
[01:54] <Noskcaj> np
[01:55] <ochosi> great that things are moving so swiftly suddenly :)
[01:55] <Noskcaj> I had an issue with exo, so it's not done.
[01:55] <ochosi> sure, but it's a great start
[01:55] <ochosi> i mean the weekend isn't over yet ;)
[01:55] <bluesabre> :D
[01:55] <bluesabre> its only just begun
[01:55] <Noskcaj> Are we ok with the xfwm4 default changes? compositing and window previews by default
[01:56] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, midday sunday
[01:56] <ochosi> tomorrow there'll be tons of 4.12.1 releases to fix oversights
[01:56] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: yes, that's fine for us
[01:56] <Noskcaj> as in, that's the time now
[01:56] <Noskcaj> cool
[01:56] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: sorry your weekend gets to you faster :(
[01:56] <ochosi> ah darn, i forgot that you live in the future, Noskcaj 
[01:56] <Noskcaj> :)
[01:56] <knome> ochosi, the new default wallpaper for 4.12 is really nice ;)
[01:56] <bluesabre> +1
[01:56] <knome> ochosi, which version did you end up using?
[01:57] <ochosi> hehe, someone loves themselves some self-praise over here ;)
[01:57] <bluesabre> haha
[01:57]  * knome coughs :P
[01:57] <knome> knowingly he asks!
[01:57] <ochosi> i tweaked the colors of the v3 to work better on bad displays
[01:57] <knome> ok
[01:58] <knome> i'm lazy, so you should pop the latest version somewhere
[01:58] <ochosi> well, bad displays remain bad, but at least the wall should look a little less bland there now
[01:58] <ochosi> the source is even in the xfce-artwork tarball
[01:59] <ochosi> on xfce.org
[01:59]  * ochosi did his homework
[01:59] <knome> i told you i'm lazy
[01:59] <knome> bah :P
[01:59] <ochosi> gah, tomorrow i have to add redirects for all the 4.11 docs to 4.12
[01:59] <ochosi> craaaaap :)
[01:59] <knome> heh
[01:59] <ochosi> and make the 1.4 powerman docs the main docs and all that
[01:59] <knome> hmm
[01:59] <ochosi> doc-rotate
[01:59] <knome> why isn't there the new wallpaper on frontpage?
[02:00] <bluesabre> I'll be around in the morning (your noon/afternoon)
[02:00] <ochosi> i think that part just hasn't been touched yet
[02:00] <bluesabre> knome: front page not updated it seems
[02:00] <knome> mhm
[02:00] <knome> ochosi, not here: http://archive.xfce.org/src/art/xfce4-artwork/
[02:00] <knome> oh
[02:00] <ochosi> not here? http://cdn.xfce.org/downloads/xfce_artwork.tar.bz2
[02:00] <knome> no
[02:00] <knome> can't be there
[02:01] <ochosi> nick said he updated the tarball with the svg and i trusted him
[02:01] <knome> fwiw,
[02:01] <ochosi> end of story
[02:01] <knome> we should add the svg logo there
[02:01] <knome> oh
[02:01] <knome> it's there
[02:01] <knome> i wonder which version it is
[02:01] <knome> says 2005...
[02:01] <ochosi> bluesabre: sounds good, maybe we can get some more stuff done
[02:01] <ochosi> knome: yeah, dunno, i guess you gotta ask nick about these things
[02:02] <knome> ah, it's just the mose icon
[02:02] <knome> mouse
[02:02] <knome> yeaah...
[02:02] <ochosi> a moose?
[02:02] <knome> that.
[02:02] <ochosi> bluesabre: although i hope not too much will turn up until then...
[02:04]  * knome just switched to using the xfce wallpapers
[02:12] <bluesabre> ochosi: hopefully not
[02:13] <knome> anything else you need from me before i hit the sack?
[02:13] <bluesabre> knome: go, be free
[02:13] <ochosi> hit it!
[02:14] <ochosi> plural?
[02:17] <knome> night everybody
[02:28] <zero_x> Noob question here, Is 15.04 going to include XFCE 4.12?
[02:29] <bluesabre> zero_x: Yes
[02:29] <zero_x> Thanks
[02:29] <bluesabre> np
[02:29] <bluesabre> I get a star for that one
[02:30]  * ochosi pins a star on bluesabre's chest
[02:30] <bluesabre> yeowch!
[02:31] <ochosi> how do you like the honor now?
[02:31] <bluesabre> :D
[02:40] <Noskcaj> Should appfinder be changed to gtk3?
[02:40] <ochosi> not sure, you could check the mem footprint and test the performance
[02:40] <ochosi> there's not really any obvious reason to switch to gtk3 for any of those apps, other than maybe help xfce test stuf
[02:40] <ochosi> f
[02:41] <Noskcaj> ok, i'll leave it on gtk2 then test gtk3 later
[02:44] <Noskcaj> Should we be trying to get whiskermenu 1.5 for 15.04?
[02:44] <ochosi> would be nice, after all, then we can also ship the settings file in the proper place
[02:45] <Noskcaj> I'll make an FFe sometime soonish then
[02:45] <ochosi> yeah, but don't forget there that we need to move the config
[02:45] <ochosi> for the default setup i mean
[02:45] <ochosi> other than that, goody
[02:57] <Noskcaj> Well shit. we have to rebuild all of xfce
[02:57] <ochosi> from the ground?
[02:57] <Noskcaj> libxfce4util got a SONAME bump
[02:58] <Noskcaj> 0 other changes from 4.11, but rebuild time
[02:59] <Noskcaj> I nominate bluesabre, since upload rights are needed for that type of thing
[02:59]  * bluesabre stops uploading
[03:01] <Noskcaj> I've uploaded util to ppa now, just parole and exo left.
[03:01] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: I'll upload libxfce4util and libxfce4ui in the morning, trigger rebuilds of things already uploaded, and the upload everything else
[03:01] <Noskcaj> cool
[03:01] <bluesabre> thanks for all your hard work
[03:02] <ochosi> +1
[03:02] <Noskcaj> np
[03:02] <Noskcaj> I'm just glad to see 4.12 released
[03:02] <bluesabre> yeah, glad to have some code we've been hacking on for a few years get the "stable" label
[03:03] <Noskcaj> hopefully 4.14's gtk3, wnck3, glib2.0 won't take as long
[03:04] <bluesabre> yeah
[03:04] <bluesabre> I think this release will definitely remind people that xfce is still around
[03:05] <bluesabre> we might get more development interest
[03:05] <Noskcaj> That's the dream
[03:05] <bluesabre> and people stepping up to help with porting :)
[03:07] <ochosi> so far only big words :)
[03:08] <ochosi> but that might change
[03:11] <bluesabre> I expect it will
[03:12] <ochosi> so tomorrow: doc-rotate and set up 4.14 roadmap page
[03:12] <bluesabre> sweet
[03:19] <bluesabre> heading to bed, night all
[03:37] <Noskcaj> One change i found with mousepad, the statusbar is gone when you change to gtk3 and when re-enabled it is twice as high. I'm not sure if that's just from the new mousepad release though
[09:32] <elfy> ochosi: QA incentive - same person for cycle to end of Feb and Beta, saves on postage I guess :D
[09:42] <knome> lol
[09:42] <knome> what's our policy on that?
[09:42] <knome> i mean, do we keep sending stickers to the same person
[09:42] <knome> or can you win at most one milestone/month/final per cycle?
[09:45] <elfy> well - I guess if I'd have thought of the scenario last cycle then I would have 1 at most per cycle
[09:45] <elfy> of course we could just make it include team as well - I'd only want 1 set ever :D
[09:45] <knome> well we run the competition, we decide the rules :P
[09:46] <knome> i guess we can see how march goes and if the same person wins again
[09:46] <elfy> well it's an open field currently :D
[09:46] <knome> then try to get other people more interested in beating them :P
[09:47]  * knome looks at the doc
[09:47] <knome> hmmwait
[09:47] <elfy> see what happens when an actual real result turns up on blog etc
[09:47] <knome> that's not here
[09:47] <knome> there it is..
[09:47] <elfy> :D
[09:47] <elfy> oh good god - I see a Pasi peering at me ...
[09:47] <knome> ;)
[09:48] <knome> and yeah, i think the contest should include team
[09:48] <knome> kind of insane not to...
[09:48] <elfy> I don't agree - and you know why :)
[09:48] <knome> i love the boolean bit for the team column :D
[09:48] <elfy> ? 
[09:48] <knome> 0/1
[09:49] <elfy> oh so it sorts easy :D
[09:49] <elfy> yea
[09:49] <knome> well maybe with the "team person can only win once ever"
[09:49] <knome> compared to "regular person can only win once per cycle" or so
[09:49] <elfy> if we include team then we need to do 2 each time imo - team AND user
[09:50] <knome> well,
[09:50] <knome> maybe
[09:50] <knome> or just limit team wins to once ever as i said
[09:50] <knome> it just feels wrong that jack did 57 tests and doesn't get a sticker
[09:50] <knome> because he happens to be in the ~xubuntu-team LP team
[09:50] <elfy> oic
[09:50] <elfy> so team doesn't include me :(
[09:50] <knome> well you too
[09:51] <elfy> ha :)
[09:51] <knome> but i wanted to make another example :P
[09:51] <elfy> heh
[09:51] <elfy> anyway - so reasoning
[09:52] <elfy> I kind of expect people in team to test - or we're really bad, this was a way to get people outside more involved
[09:52] <elfy> but I'm happy enough Jack getting a set, and slickymaster next month
[09:52] <knome> understood :)
[09:53] <knome> that's a fair argument
[09:53] <knome> then again
[09:53] <elfy> as long as we have 2 each time - User and Team
[09:53] <knome> we're all doing this voluntarily...
[09:53] <elfy> otherwise - completely pointless and we should stop now imo
[09:53] <knome> well as i said we could limit team wins to once ever
[09:53] <knome> eg. once you've won, you're banned from the competition
[09:54] <knome> in march, april, beta2, final, ww cycle, xx cycle, ...
[09:54] <knome> with that policy, i really don't think we need to do two winners :)
[09:54] <knome> if things go on like they are going on now
[09:54] <elfy> then I refuse to be involved in this 
[09:54] <knome> just my idea
[09:54] <elfy> the WHOLE point was to get users involved
[09:54] <knome> agree
[09:55] <knome> i guess we need to ask pleia2 how many stickers she has :)
[09:55] <elfy> pretty sure there's sufficient for this cycle 
[09:55] <knome> yes, without the doubles for the team
[09:55] <knome> maybe
[09:55] <knome> i don't remember exactly
[09:55] <knome> but then
[09:55] <elfy> "pleia2 has 20 bundles"
[09:56] <knome> if we do two sets, user/team, isn't it unfair that people on the team have advantage :P
[09:56] <knome> and wouldn't that mean elfy wins every time anyway ;D
[09:56] <elfy> lol
[09:56] <elfy> I could massage the figures and not only put 50% of mine on the tracker :D
[09:56] <knome> so a team category, where anybody can win at most once ever?
[09:57] <elfy> go down as low as 5% or something 
[09:57] <knome> wouldn't that be almost the same than just order stickers for everybody in the team and get on with it :P
[09:57] <elfy> knome: lol
[09:57] <knome> because at some point, you *have* to win
[09:57] <knome> with 1 test, or sth :P
[09:58] <knome> because everybody else is disqualified..
[09:58] <elfy> knome: yea - but who'd want to trundle over the line last at the end next cycle :p
[09:58]  * knome volunteers
[09:59] <elfy> too late - you appear to have done 2 :D
[09:59] <knome> :((
[09:59] <elfy> anyway ... 
[09:59] <elfy> I don't mind team included, but then we must have 2 
[09:59] <elfy> or I do mind
[10:00] <elfy> bear in mind that when we started thinking of this - I said team not included 
[10:00] <knome> yes
[10:00] <elfy> no-one said anything 
[10:00] <elfy> too late to start now ;)
[10:00] <knome> i have no arguments against that
[10:00] <knome> it's mainly that it feels bad for people who did so much more - you, jack and david
[10:01] <elfy> yea I understand that point for sure 
[10:01] <elfy> not me - but them anyway 
[10:03] <knome> mhm
[10:56] <ochosi> hey everyone
[10:57] <elfy> morning ochosi 
[10:59] <ochosi> i think it's ok that now the same person won the QA incentive twice
[10:59] <ochosi> but we should make that public (on all channels) and tell people to give him/her more competition
[11:00] <ochosi> the programme might even benefit from this
[11:00] <elfy> yes - but no need to send 2 lots of stickers 
[11:00] <ochosi> sure
[11:03] <knome> if you want the certificate sent, be in touch with me :)
[11:03] <knome> i'll be off most of today
[11:03] <knome> but i'll be around tomorrow
[11:04] <elfy> I think that we should inform them and everyone else before we do any sending of anything tbh
[11:04] <ochosi> yup
[11:04] <ochosi> +1 on that
[12:04] <knome> sure, but also nice to have the cert prepared :)
[12:13] <elfy> there is that :)
[12:40] <bluesabre> good morning everyone
[12:41] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[12:41] <elfy> hi bluesabre :)
[12:42] <elfy> oh good lord another one lol ... 
[12:42] <ochosi> yeah, we might want/need a factoid for that :)
[12:42] <elfy> like !ffs :p
[12:42] <ochosi> bluesabre: finish the 4.12PPA already, ppl are getting on our nerves in #xubuntu!
[12:42] <ochosi> elfy: hehe
[12:43] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: I think I'll upload everything that depends on libxfce4util with a dependency wait on it, then push util to trigger the rebuild
[12:43] <elfy> yea - good lord bluesabre - did you need sleep or something? 
[12:43] <bluesabre> elfy: wife's comment last night "holy crap your eyes look black, look at those shadows"
[12:43] <elfy> I guess we could fiddle with topic for the moment
[12:43] <bluesabre> seems so :D
[12:44] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[12:44] <ochosi> bluesabre, Noskcaj: in case you were wondering, the 4util soname bump didn't happen for no reason: http://git.xfce.org/xfce/libxfce4util/commit/configure.ac.in?id=ca7a3720e193e29dbc9f20306149c93e49a81c89
[12:44]  * elfy has vision of bluesabre as one of those emo weirdos
[12:44] <bluesabre> ochosi: saw
[12:44] <ochosi> k
[13:07] <ochosi> bluesabre: crap, i think i have another patch for greybird...
[13:07] <ochosi> tiny one-liner, but still
[13:07] <bluesabre> ochosi: alrighty, I'll upload that one after all of xfce
[13:07] <bluesabre> :P
[13:17] <elfy> :)
[13:25] <bluesabre> elfy: at what time are the new dailies built?
[13:26] <elfy> well ... it appears to be a bit of a movable feast 
[13:26] <elfy> used to be ~11-12UTC 
[13:27] <elfy> all I can say at the moment it is before 13:27UTC
[13:28] <bluesabre> so, it should be safe to start uploading packages that break things in a fresh image until all is uploaded
[13:28] <elfy> yep - you should be good now till tomorrow
[13:29] <bluesabre> good deal
[13:29] <bluesabre> don't update for a few hours
[13:29] <elfy> I've just going to check a handful of buidlogs 
[13:31] <elfy> bluesabre: ftr - it 'appears' to build roundabout 10:00UTC
[13:32] <bluesabre> this first required upload might actually get stuck since it introduces a new package
[13:34]  * bluesabre watches
[13:35]  * elfy waits an hour to update and complain 
[13:36] <bluesabre> wait long please
[13:36] <bluesabre> gotta rebuild all xfce packages
[13:36] <bluesabre> er
[13:36] <bluesabre> and blueman
[13:37] <elfy> oh lord - no wonder I was confused - convinced I was running kubuntu :p
[13:37] <bluesabre> :P
[13:37] <bluesabre> getting pulled away by all that plasma4 business
[13:37] <bluesabre> *plasma5
[13:37] <elfy> :)
[13:37] <bluesabre> I do not seem to be centered on my keyboard
[13:38] <elfy> I'm having trouble centering on the planet atm :)
[13:38] <bluesabre> :D
[13:39] <ochosi> bluesabre: maybe i'll have to tweak the xfwm4 tabwin preview size
[13:39] <elfy> bluesabre: anyway I'll make sure not to update any 'dubious choices' till the morning 
[13:39] <ochosi> so gimme an hour or (lunch) to look into that before up'ing greybird
[13:39] <bluesabre> elfy: thanks
[13:39] <elfy> unless you actually want me to - then just shout
[13:39] <bluesabre> ochosi: no hurry to upload that ;)
[13:40] <bluesabre> once that one lands, going to upload so many things >.<
[13:46] <elfy> bluesabre: bad man - you answer him in #xubuntu now :D
[13:47] <bluesabre> lol
[13:47] <elfy> just give him your twitter link
[13:47]  * elfy is doing that :D
[13:47] <elfy> and did :)
[13:47] <bluesabre> :)
[13:49] <elfy> though will the ppa get all updated stuff in it - just wondering? 
[13:49] <bluesabre> will eventually get to the xfce-412 ppa
[13:51] <bluesabre> vivid > xfce-412 ppa for utopic > ppa for trusty > trusty SRUs as needed
[13:56] <elfy> bluesabre: thanks for the path :)
[13:56] <elfy> won't affect me of course - but helps to know :)
[14:48] <elfy> bluesabre: going to be a long day is it ;) 
[14:48] <bluesabre> since the queue might take a while, each of the new packages were pushed to https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging/+packages and are building
[14:48] <bluesabre> elfy: yes
[14:48] <bluesabre> :(
[14:49] <elfy> is it still cold and snowy? 
[14:49]  * bluesabre wonders if Logan can release libxfce4util
[14:50] <bluesabre> elfy: slight upgrade, cold and rainy
[14:50] <ochosi> hmm, so that one's still stuck?
[14:50] <bluesabre> ochosi: it created a new binary package with the change
[14:50] <bluesabre> libxfce4util6 > libxfce4util7
[14:50] <bluesabre> so it goes to NEW
[14:50] <ochosi> yeah, makes sense
[14:51] <bluesabre> we have to wait for that to clear before pushing the others, otherwise I'll just have to rebuild everything
[14:51] <ochosi> the devel related channels are fairly quiet today
[14:51] <bluesabre> post-b2
[14:51] <bluesabre> nobody is around
[14:51] <bluesabre> hoping ScottK shows up and hits the button
[14:51] <elfy> bluesabre: I'd guess that for sure
[14:51] <bluesabre> or
[14:51] <bluesabre> b1
[14:52] <bluesabre> w/e :D
[14:52] <elfy> the B1 not the ScottK that is 
[14:52] <bluesabre> once it does clear, rebuilds have to go then or the new image will probably fail
[14:53] <bluesabre> so busy day... eventually
[14:53] <ochosi> right
[14:54] <ochosi> bluesabre, elfy: could you try the window previews option in xfwm4-advanced->compositor in alt-tab and tell me what you think about the default size of the previews?
[14:54] <ochosi> i could specify the size in greybird too
[14:54] <ochosi> depends on whether we think this is ok
[14:56] <ochosi> whoops, i bumped our progress quite a bit by linking the 4.12 bugreport to our blueprint :] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-v/group/topic-v-flavor-xubuntu.html
[14:57] <bluesabre> ochosi: it seems fine to me
[14:57] <elfy> ochosi: do you mean the preview when alt-tabbing? 
[14:57] <elfy> if so - looks fine to me 
[14:57] <ochosi> and, do we want to use that as default
[14:58] <elfy> I'd say so
[14:59] <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging now has all the changes we'd like to land today
[14:59] <ochosi> performance wise there seems to be practically no penalty
[14:59] <ochosi> awesome sauce, bluesabre 
[15:00] <ochosi> the previews can look a bit bulky
[15:01] <elfy> ochosi: looks pretty well balanced here for the desktop - smaller I'd be just seeing a square circle, bigger would look too much 
[15:01] <ochosi> okeydoke, then i won't add any value in greybird
[15:01] <ochosi> (it's based on the 64px icon size i'm already setting there anyway)
[15:02] <ochosi> hm isn't this a duplicate? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1426895
[15:02] <elfy> yep
[15:02] <bluesabre> fixed in exo 0.10.3
[15:02] <bluesabre> (not uploaded yet)
[15:05] <elfy> bluesabre: you want me to see if it all goes horribly wrong with an update?
[15:06] <ochosi> i'm upgrading to the staging pkgs now
[15:06] <ochosi> brb
[15:07] <elfy> I guess so then :D
[15:11] <jjfrv8> ochosi, I know you've got other irons in the fire right now, but when you get a chance, can you look at the Appearance and Display doc pages?
[15:11] <ochosi> bluesabre: could you indeed at the patch to greybird? i don't wanna do any further changes for now
[15:11] <ochosi> jjfrv8: oh nice! i'll take a quick peek now
[15:11] <jjfrv8> ochosi, if you can verify that I've got the screenshots looking right, but also I have some questions on the text on the Appearance page.
[15:12] <elfy> afternoon brainwash :)
[15:14] <ochosi> jjfrv8: you can steal some screenshots from the 4.12 tour for the docs btw ;) (esp themes and icons)
[15:14] <ochosi> jjfrv8: wrt default fonts, i'm not sure what you're asking me. for fonts there is no diff between gtk2/3
[15:15] <jjfrv8> I guess I was wondering if I gave correct examples of apps
[15:16] <ochosi> the default font is used *everywhere*
[15:16] <ochosi> apart from window decorations
[15:16] <ochosi> but that's not important/interesting enough to mention there
[15:16] <jjfrv8> ok
[15:18] <ochosi> other than that, appearance is good to go from my side
[15:18] <ochosi> nice work on that!
[15:21] <ochosi> ok, reviewed display settings as well
[15:22] <ochosi> i only amended some strings/wordings a little, other than that this one's perfect too!
[15:22] <ochosi> thanks a lot jjfrv8 
[15:22] <ochosi> i think we can move that over today or whenever we have the rest of the appearance screenshots
[15:23] <jjfrv8> welcome. will make the suggested change to the text and finish the screenshots. let you know when ready. :)
[15:25] <ochosi> awesome!
[15:25] <ochosi> i'm prepping docs.xfce for the changes as we speak
[15:25] <ochosi> well "speak"
[15:25] <bluesabre> ochosi is talking to himself
[15:30] <ochosi> bluesabre: if you're bored, i guess this is something we want in 15.04 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1307545
[15:31] <pleia2> elfy: re: stickers, I think we agree that team shouldn't be included, they are our stickers to give out and if we want to give them to -team folks completely outside of any competition we can do that too
[15:32] <pleia2> no need for two classes of winners or such a formal thing here
[15:32] <elfy> wfm :)
[15:33] <pleia2> and I had thought we'd do "top tester who hasn't already won this cycle" re: stickers, but I don't have a strong opinion there
[15:34] <pleia2> I defer to elfy, since I think he knows our testing community best, and what incentivizes them
[15:36]  * ochosi hopes we'll publish some graphs
[15:36]  * ochosi loves graphs
[15:36] <pleia2> :)
[15:37] <elfy> LOL
[15:38] <elfy> pleia2: that kind of cuts across one we'd already set up 
[15:38] <elfy> Tests reported during the whole Vivid Vervet cycle
[15:40] <pleia2> well we did say in the blog post "A limit of one sticker bundle is available per tester."
[15:41] <pleia2> so I guess you're saying, it's not implied that we pick a different winner if the top tester already got one?
[15:41] <pleia2> the same person can keep winning, they just only get one bundle per cycle
[15:41] <elfy> mmm
[15:41] <pleia2> and I guess we didn't think through the Whole Cycle one very thoroughly ;)
[15:42] <elfy> well ... it was kicking about for ages and ages 
[15:43] <pleia2> yeah, no big deal
[15:43] <pleia2> it's ok to not be perfect, it's our first try at this :)
[15:44] <elfy> I'd say that , foo wins, can't win again, bar's next - they can
[15:44] <elfy> nothing to stop us saying "hey - foo won AGAIN, but they've had stickers and foo came in next - here's some for you"
[15:44] <slickymaster> hey guys
[15:45] <pleia2> elfy: yeah, so our criteria for winner should be "top non-team tester who hasn't won yet?"
[15:45] <elfy> pleia2: imo this is just about trying to up the ante a bit and get more people involved
[15:45] <elfy> pleia2: yep
[15:45] <elfy> and hi slickymaster :)
[15:45] <pleia2> perfect
[15:46] <bluesabre> ochosi: I think I may have already uploaded that
[15:46] <bluesabre> comparing the latest commit
[15:46] <elfy> pleia2: if we want to do something for people from team who do above and beyond that's a different kettle of fish
[15:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: oh right, nice. subsequent question is whether we want to try to backport that to trusty or not
[15:47] <elfy> pleia2: also - re polls, have you caught the latest thoughts on that - ie - have a slide on installer about it - then run a whole cycle poll 
[15:48] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, would probably be a worthwhile effort
[15:48] <pleia2> elfy: nope, but sounds like a good idea :)
[15:48] <elfy> :)
[15:48] <ochosi> bluesabre: would mean fiddling with the desktop file and stuff, and wouldn't fix anything for ppl who have already installed 14.04
[15:48] <elfy> pleia2: knome and slickymaster bullied me into hanging around with them tomorrow night about that :p
[15:49] <pleia2> elfy: oh, are we shutting down our current poll soon? or is that the poll you had in mind for keeping open for the slideshow?
[15:49] <bluesabre> ochosi: as with every light-locker fix, requires manual intervention from folks
[15:49] <elfy> pleia2: and finally ... there's a draft pad for poll #2 
[15:49] <pleia2> neat
[15:49] <bluesabre> so we can bet 15% of folks that report and complain won't fix it themselves
[15:50] <elfy> pleia2: well it appears that poll #1 has slowed right down now numbers wise 
[15:50] <slickymaster> lol elfy, bullied you?
[15:50] <elfy> @)
[15:50] <meetingology> elfy: Error: ")" is not a valid command.
[15:50] <ochosi> bluesabre: well, soon we won't have any troubles with that anymore (>=15.04)
[15:50] <elfy> silly meetingology 
[15:50] <slickymaster> you'll be having a bad time in the playgorund
[15:50] <elfy> always did ... 
[15:50] <pleia2> elfy: yeah, it spikes when we social media it, but I haven't in a week or so
[15:50] <slickymaster> :)
[15:51] <pleia2> and I think we have enough info anyway
[15:51] <elfy> pleia2: yep - 350+ is probably about 340+ more than I expected :)
[15:51] <pleia2> hehe
[15:52] <elfy> pleia2: personally I would stop #1 now, get #2 ready then run that for a few weeks - then nothing till we release 15.04 with the whole cycle one
[15:52] <elfy> that *should* be loads of data 
[15:52] <pleia2> elfy: wfm
[15:52] <elfy> pleia2: unless it happens before then - I'll have a chat with knome about that lot then :)
[15:53] <pleia2> when do we need to make the slideshow update?
[15:54] <elfy> not sure - pretty soon I think 
[15:54] <elfy> slickymaster: ^^
[15:54] <pleia2> I guess we can put up a poll page on xubuntu.org for the poll at any time
[15:54] <elfy> pleia2: unless we don't run #2 now - and keep that for cycle 
[15:54] <elfy> I'd suspect what we've got so far will be a lot to digest and think about
[15:55] <pleia2> perhaps, I still don't have a lot of time for this myself
[15:56] <elfy> I know 
[15:56] <elfy> hence me helping you ;)
[15:56] <elfy> well ... you/us :)
[15:57] <slickymaster> elfy, pleia2, I'd like it to be ready and uploaded this week, so it'd be included in my last translation call I've planned to do tuesday-wednesdat the latest
[15:57] <jjfrv8> ochosi, you might want to do a final check of Appearance, but I think they should both be ready for copying now.
[15:57] <elfy> slickymaster: ack
[15:58] <ochosi> jjfrv8: k, will do that later today (gotta finish up some other stuff now) and then ping you once it's done. thanks again!
[15:58] <elfy> slickymaster: and how far as it all progressed? 
[15:58] <slickymaster> not much, tbh
[15:58] <elfy> :)
[15:59] <slickymaster> It's more of a overall sketch, what we have so far
[15:59] <elfy> maybe I'll make a start on the new poll then - save some time 
[16:00] <elfy> at the moment toss up between everything in menu or picking some out :)
[16:00] <slickymaster> a different one from what is planned to be added to the slideshow elfy?
[16:00] <elfy> slickymaster: no - *that* one 
[16:01] <pleia2> elfy: just ping me when we're ready to announce+contact winners for stickers, I'm still pretty buried work-wise but I can get to the post office and print off whatever we need :)
[16:02] <elfy> pleia2: ok - well I would guess early in the week
[16:02] <elfy> we need to actually talk to them first :)
[16:02]  * pleia2 nods
[16:02] <elfy> they might be 'OH NO YOU CAN'T' :)
[16:02] <elfy> do we use LP name - real name? etc
[16:03] <pleia2> yeah
[16:03] <elfy> I'd say LP name - that's what shows on the tracker etc
[16:03] <pleia2> I tend to say "whatever they want" :)
[16:04] <elfy> and then they might be uncontactable via LP :)
[16:04] <elfy> I guess as QA lead I should make the contact 
[16:04] <pleia2> anyway, yeah, first step is draft email to send to winners
[16:04] <pleia2> "at the end of each period and contacted by our marketing lead for shipment details"
[16:04] <pleia2> doh
[16:05] <pleia2> but maybe you should contact, then tell them to email me address
[16:05] <pleia2> since as QA lead, I think it makes them feel more special coming from you :)
[16:05] <elfy> works for me 
[16:06] <elfy> I'll do that a bit later today 
[16:06] <pleia2> thanks
[16:06] <elfy> ochosi: you happy me putting your name on this as well - as XPL? 
[16:07] <slickymaster> so elfy, do you want me to postponed my review of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+bug/1391636
[16:07] <pleia2> elfy: feel free to Cc: me though, so I can be in the loop
[16:07] <slickymaster> because of 4.12 release
[16:07] <ochosi> elfy: sure
[16:07] <elfy> slickymaster: ha - you caught up with me before I caught up with you :)
[16:07] <elfy> pleia2: ack
[16:08] <slickymaster> elfy, I'll put it on hang until you say I can do it
[16:08] <elfy> slickymaster: I checked earlier today - it's good as it is - no updates 
[16:08] <slickymaster> yeah? ok, I'll go ahead then
[16:10] <elfy> slickymaster: ty :)
[16:10] <slickymaster> np
[16:26] <elfy> pleia2: sent 
[16:26] <pleia2> elfy: thanks
[16:38] <slickymaster> elfy, https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/1391636/+merge/245409
[16:38] <slickymaster> all set
[16:44] <elfy> ty slickymaster 
[16:48] <slickymaster> np :)
[17:18] <elfy> do we need to worry that xfce4-session is an upstart session service ?
[17:34]  * ochosi has no idea
[17:48] <ochosi> elfy: since you're the expert on these bugs... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1426931
[17:50] <elfy> ochosi:  thanks then :p
[17:51] <elfy> duped it 
[17:51] <drc> This where I go to ask about 15.04B1's inability to respect the "Hide frame of windows when maximized" being unchecked?
[17:51] <holstein> you mean, the decorations?
[17:52] <holstein> im not sure that that is an expectation.. i think some browsers do that.. but i typically see the decorations on maximized windows in most OS's.. are you just wanting a place to set that?
[17:52] <drc> No, the maximized window's frame and titlebar being hidden behind the top panel.
[17:53] <drc> and its not just FF, it's all windows.
[17:53] <holstein> did you change the panel settings? there are ways to make that happen with the panel settings.. i used to do that on netbooks intentionally to save space
[17:54] <drc> Looked, but couldn't find what I (think) I was looking for.  With versions before 15.04B1, this was set in Windows Managers Tweaks>Accessability>Hide Frame of windows when maximized (checked=on, unchecked=off)
[17:55] <elfy> drc I just tried that, working here - but I've got the staging ppa 
[17:55] <holstein> could be something in the PPA i suppose addressing an issue
[17:56] <elfy> yea possibly, booting a vm
[17:56] <holstein> anyways, i would just poke around a bit, drc , and see if you can get someone to verify it on another machine..
[17:57] <drc> Would a Live CD work?  All the other boxen here are (shudder) Win8/10 machines :)
[17:57] <elfy> drc: no idea till I try
[17:57] <drc> Nevermind, I'll just boot it and see :)
[17:57] <elfy> oic - sorry - hang on a moment drc 
[17:58] <drc> ok
[17:58] <elfy> let me see if I can verify what you see 
[17:59] <drc> BTW the new intell-hide is turned off
[18:00] <elfy> yea I had to do that and this machine and move panel to top and expand it :p
[18:00] <elfy> drc: is this with it enabled?
[18:01] <drc> no, off
[18:01] <elfy> drc: http://i.imgur.com/kHeNjp1.png
[18:01] <drc> With it on, it doesn't appear to happen
[18:02] <elfy> if it's on and I don't disable hid title I lose title 
[18:03] <drc> And "always" the window maximizes, but then the panel is activated it covers the title bar/buttons of the window
[18:05] <drc> oh yeah FF and click url's has a problem right?
[18:07] <drc> elfy: Not sure what the image is supposed to show?  That things work fine for you or not :)
[18:08] <elfy> drc :)
[18:08] <elfy> that's what I see - is that expected? don't use it here 
[18:08] <drc> Let me try some things here...
[18:09] <elfy> drc: ff and url's is bug 1426931
[18:09] <elfy> oh idiot elfy
[18:09] <elfy> bug 1425972
[18:09] <elfy> fixable 
[18:16] <drc> Didn't there used to be an ability to <allow> the panel cover the top of the window or not...can't find it now?
[18:17] <ochosi> drc: "don't reserve space on borders"
[18:18] <drc> I don't think that was it...it was more explicit than that.
[18:18] <drc> woah....
[18:19] <drc> But that solves my problem.
[18:20] <ochosi> bbl
[18:20] <drc> click "Don't reserve space..." (the default?  I don't remember clicking this) and the problem manifiests itself,  Unclick and it goes away.
[18:23] <drc> If it being clicked is not the default, I apologize, I just don't remember clicking it.
[18:32] <drc> Just checked the Live CD, it's <not> checked.  I must have done it myself sometime w/o realizing it and didn't recognize the problem when it presented itself.  Mea culpa.
[18:34] <elfy> such is life :)
[18:34] <drc> Yeah, but some of us are more afflicted than others....
[18:34] <drc> BTW, looks like a pretty nice job, for a Beta1.
[19:03] <Noskcaj> elfy, That exo bug is fixed in 0.10.3
[19:12] <brainvvash> Noskcaj, do we need to SRU it for 14.04/14.10?
[19:13] <Noskcaj> brainvvash, Couldn't hurt. I'd personally only go to 14.04
[19:27] <elfy> Noskcaj: yea - I got told 
[20:59] <drc> Just ran inxi -F on a newly installed and updated 15.04B1...it says XFCE 4.12?
[21:00] <drc> That was quick work :)
[21:52] <knome> pleia2, slideshow change before UI freeze, which is march 12
[21:52] <knome> pleia2, well, the content practically march 19 (docstringfreeze)
[21:52] <sidi> hi pleia2, can i ask you your email @ please? im talking to the UNIX stickers people for Xfce and would like to talk to you and knome about your experience with them
[21:55] <knome> pleia2, btw, we are now mentioning unixstickers on our frontpage, did they promise more good for us if we did that? :P
[21:56] <knome> pleia2, or what were their proposal about that?
[22:10] <ochosi> bluesabre: i presume you haven't found anybody yet for 4util
[22:11] <bluesabre> ochosi: correctamundo
[22:11] <ochosi> well, to the worst i can ping around tomorrow
[22:11]  * bluesabre expects to package a few things in the morning
[22:28] <elfy> pleia2: I see I successfully sent that from the wrong address - but at least got a reply :)
[22:54] <pleia2> sidi: my email address? can use lyz@ubuntu.com
[22:55] <pleia2> knome: it's all kind of casual, there's no firm agreement if we do X we get Y
[22:55] <pleia2> elfy: hah, yeah
[22:55] <sidi> pleia2, thanks!
[22:55] <pleia2> elfy: so did we want a winner for dailies AND beta 1?
[22:56] <knome> pleia2, ok, so would they consider the current coverage something that would give us more of Y, whatever Y was
[22:56] <pleia2> knome: probably, but I've been approaching it on a case by case basis, I figure we chat with them every year or so about what we need and what they're able to send
[22:57] <knome> pleia2, ok, just wondering...
[22:58] <knome> maybe we should give them a prod, just in case ;)
[22:59] <pleia2> sure, I'll drop them a note
[22:59] <knome> thanks
[22:59] <knome> feel free to CC me in case they want to communicate more