| halcyon | lazyPower: hye! are u available? | 02:37 |
|---|---|---|
| halcyon | lazyPower: I did follow this tutorial but I failed to restart my networking service | 02:37 |
| halcyon | lazyPower: then I reboot, and affect to show my juju status | 02:39 |
| halcyon | hye, does anyone can help me , what should I do if my juju status mentioned agent-state-info : container failed to start? | 03:45 |
| halcyon | hye, does anyone can help me , what should I do if my juju status mentioned agent-state-info : container failed to start? I'm install juju using lxc in local provider | 03:50 |
| lazyPower | halcyon: this is more than likely related to reconfiguring your LXC bridge according to that post. As i mentioned - its tricky | 04:15 |
| lazyPower | and failure is difficult to debug when that happens | 04:15 |
| lazyPower | halcyon: how much linux networking do you know? | 04:15 |
| lazyPower | or rather, how confident are you in the event of catastrophic failure that you could reconfigure it into a working condition :) | 04:16 |
| halcyon | lazyPower: just a beginner :) | 04:18 |
| halcyon | lazyPower: could u advice me on what should I do? | 04:19 |
| lazyPower | halcyon: Revert back to the LXCBR0 bridge, and revert the networking + subnet back to the 10.0.3.0/24 cidr | 05:48 |
| lazyPower | halcyon: i'm coming in and out of sleep - so if you're around in EST morning hours i can help. but for now i gotta get some sleep. have a good evening o/ | 05:49 |
| Muntaner | good morning o/ | 08:33 |
| Muntaner | I'm having problem with my first charm | 08:35 |
| Muntaner | 1 - when I do a juju-log in the bash code of the charm, where can I actually find those logs? | 08:37 |
| Muntaner | because I have a "hook failed: install" but can't figure why | 08:37 |
| Muntaner | maybe I'm not using well the "set -e" thing... | 08:41 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, in the unit log | 08:42 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, e.g. if you have unit wordpress/2 on machine 4, juju ssh 4, sudo less /var/log/juju/unit-wordpress-2.log | 08:43 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, figured it | 08:43 |
| Muntaner | seems like I had an error caused by a "mysql restart", and I didn't have mysql on that machine | 08:43 |
| Muntaner | (dumb errors :) ) | 08:43 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, yeah - hooks need to be idempotent - calling them multiple times shouldn't be a problem | 08:44 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, nice! it works :) | 08:46 |
| Muntaner | now, I need to connect the mysql charm to my charm | 08:46 |
| Muntaner | can you tell me how to do that? no ideas, right now | 08:46 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, you'll need to specify in your charm metadata that you require a db relation like wordpress does for example | 08:48 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, then you can add-relation yourcharm mysql | 08:48 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, and ofc the relevant relation hooks need to be in place (db-relation-changed, etc.) | 08:49 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, maybe I'm getting it to work :D | 08:54 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, cool :) | 08:54 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, I need to tell to my charm the IP of the mysql charm... can I do that? | 08:54 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, check out https://jujucharms.com/docs/authors-charm-interfaces | 08:57 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, and this https://jujucharms.com/docs/interface-mysql | 08:58 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, ty! | 08:58 |
| Mmike | Hello, guys. I have a working juju environment, inside OpenStack. I have my bootstrap node and various other nodes with services happily running. I just managed to destroy my ~/.juju directory, along with the .jenv file that's tied to my environment. | 09:12 |
| Mmike | Is there a way to extract those info, somehow, from the bootstrap node? | 09:13 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, seems like I'm having problems in running the "db-relation-x" hooks | 09:22 |
| Muntaner | logs aren't helping me | 09:23 |
| dimitern | dimitern, sorry I'm in a meeting perhaps lazyPower or some of the charmers can help you? | 09:28 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, no problem! | 09:31 |
| === scuttlemonkey is now known as scuttle|afk | ||
| Muntaner | dimitern, my charm 0.1 is ready | 10:07 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, awesome! does it work with mysql? | 10:08 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, yep! | 10:08 |
| Muntaner | prestashop 0.1 ready ;D | 10:08 |
| Muntaner | I should implement other hooks now | 10:09 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, sweet! | 10:09 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, how can I provide to the guy that deploys via juju-gui or CLI some informations about the default log-in, the default link to reach to see the web service, etc. ? | 10:11 |
| dimitern | Muntaner, I guess in the readme file for the charm | 10:12 |
| Muntaner | dimitern, can't access to readmes via the gui - seems like it loads forever, strange | 10:24 |
| dimitern | frankban, hey, perhaps you can help ^^ | 10:27 |
| frankban | Muntaner: so you are not able to see the readme files from the GUI? for all the charms? | 10:30 |
| Muntaner | yep frankban, first time that this happens | 10:30 |
| Muntaner | I see "Loading..." and the spinning forever | 10:30 |
| frankban | Muntaner: ok I am trying to dupe | 10:31 |
| Muntaner | frankban, tell me if you need anything (logs, background) | 10:32 |
| frankban | Muntaner: sure thank you | 10:32 |
| Muntaner | frankban, I am logged in the same juju-gui endpoint with two laptops, if this may help | 10:33 |
| Muntaner | same thing happens with only 1 guy logged, just tried | 10:33 |
| bloodearnest | on 1.20.14, on openstack provider, is there a way for me to get hold of the private ip address of a unit that has been assigned a floating ip? | 10:35 |
| bloodearnest | juju status just shows the public ip, not private | 10:35 |
| Muntaner | frankban, another little issue: I can see the icon of my charm in the canvas, but on the left side I see its default icon | 10:38 |
| frankban | Muntaner: I just deployed the GUI on a ocal env using quickstart, and when I click charms on the left I can see their readme, configuration, etc without problems | 10:39 |
| Muntaner | frankban, maybe I caused this error someway | 10:40 |
| frankban | Muntaner: could you please file a bug describing the steps to dupe the error? | 10:40 |
| Muntaner | frankban, I just created my personal charm, changed his icon, deployed it via CLI | 10:43 |
| frankban | Muntaner: deployed as a local charm? | 10:45 |
| Muntaner | frankban, I have an OpenStack private installation, all-in-one. The charm is a prestashop deployer - deployed it via CLI in the same LAN of the OpenStack server | 10:45 |
| frankban | Muntaner: what command did you use to deploy the charm? | 10:46 |
| Muntaner | frankban, juju deploy --repository=/home/mike/charms local:trusty/prestashop --debug | 10:46 |
| frankban | Muntaner: ok so this is a local charm deployment | 10:47 |
| frankban | Muntaner: how do you use the GUI to try to read the readme? | 10:47 |
| Muntaner | frankban, I click on the charm on the canvas, then I click on the link on the left tab (for example: cs:trusty/mysql-22), and then it opens a tab that loads forever | 10:49 |
| Muntaner | if you need screenshots, can up them | 10:49 |
| frankban | Muntaner: no thanks, now trying to dupe what you described | 10:50 |
| frankban | Muntaner: ok I deployed a local charm and now I see the readme error | 10:55 |
| Muntaner | great frankban! | 10:56 |
| frankban | Muntaner: oh... after refreshing the GUI, I can now see the readme of the local charm, could you try it? | 10:57 |
| Muntaner | frankban, F5ed a couple of times - no changes | 10:59 |
| frankban | Muntaner: any JS console errors? | 11:00 |
| frankban | Muntaner: oh I think I know why, I guess your charm is not in the charm stor eyet, correct? | 11:01 |
| Muntaner | no frankban, it justs exists in my laptop folder | 11:01 |
| frankban | Muntaner: ok | 11:02 |
| === Murali_ is now known as Murali | ||
| Muntaner | frankban, btw I can't read the readme of any charm (juju-gui, mysql) | 11:16 |
| frankban | Muntaner: even after refreshing? | 11:16 |
| Muntaner | frankban, yes | 11:16 |
| frankban | Muntaner: could you please try to refresh removing the URL path? so just the home of the GUI | 11:17 |
| frankban | Muntaner: anyway, I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-gui/+bug/1427162 , please feel free to add there any additional information you have. and thanks for reporting this issue! | 11:19 |
| mup | Bug #1427162: Local charms icon and readme <juju-gui:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1427162> | 11:19 |
| === Murali_ is now known as Murali | ||
| jamespage | gnuoy, can you do me a quick review of https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charm-helpers/bug-1413862/+merge/251426 | 11:54 |
| gnuoy | sure | 11:55 |
| gnuoy | jamespage, approved | 11:57 |
| jamespage | gnuoy, ta | 11:57 |
| === Murali_ is now known as Murali | ||
| === scuttle|afk is now known as scuttlemonkey | ||
| jcastro | hey guys | 14:25 |
| jcastro | http://askubuntu.com/questions/590715/how-can-i-find-power-pc-specific-charms | 14:25 |
| jcastro | we don't have this do we? | 14:25 |
| hazmat | jcastro: nope.. tags might help for the short term | 15:25 |
| rick_h_ | jcastro: yea, there was talk of adding a metadata.yaml entry for that but nothing was firmed up and planned that I'm aware of. | 15:28 |
| jcastro | rick_h_, I was thinking though, if we see which charms fail on ppc64le we could have a general idea? | 15:29 |
| rick_h_ | jcastro: maybe, I need to catch up on where/how good charm testing is to be a good indicator of something like this | 15:31 |
| jcastro | rick_h_, want me to answer it to that effect? | 15:36 |
| jcastro | hey tvansteenburgh ^^^ | 15:37 |
| tvansteenburgh | jcastro: we're not testing on ppc64le yet | 15:39 |
| tvansteenburgh | not in CI anyway | 15:39 |
| jcastro | ack | 15:39 |
| jcastro | http://askubuntu.com/questions/590715/how-can-i-find-power-pc-specific-charms/591878#591878 | 15:49 |
| jcastro | How's this guys? | 15:49 |
| jcastro | mbruzek, looks like that guy's jruby fixes for ppc64le are in upstream now | 15:50 |
| mbruzek | jcastro that is great | 15:50 |
| Muntaner | hey guys | 15:52 |
| Muntaner | just a quick question | 15:52 |
| Muntaner | how can I get in a juju hook | 15:52 |
| Muntaner | for example, install or db-relation joined | 15:52 |
| jcastro | what do you mean by in a juju hook | 15:52 |
| mbruzek | "get in"? | 15:52 |
| Muntaner | the floating IP assigned to the VM that is running this charm? | 15:52 |
| Muntaner | sorry, bad english ^^" | 15:52 |
| jcastro | https://jujucharms.com/docs/authors-hook-debug | 15:53 |
| jcastro | ok so this shows you how to go into a unit and debug a hook | 15:53 |
| jcastro | I assume your install hook failed and you want to see why? | 15:53 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: the public-address and private-address is always available to a hook, likewise those values are available on relation hooks for the other charms. | 15:53 |
| Muntaner | no jcastro, I am running a command line installation into the install hook. I need to specify the local ip of the VM as a parameter of the installation | 15:54 |
| jcastro | oh yes, then what mbruzek said, let me find the doc snippet for those | 15:55 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: if you want the private address for the system you are installing use 'unit-get private-address' | 15:55 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: https://jujucharms.com/docs/authors-hook-environment | 15:56 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, thanks, lemme try | 15:57 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: if you need the address of a related charm, say in the db-relation-changed hook, use `relation-get private-address` | 15:57 |
| jcastro | evilnickveitch, hey since we're ditching the charm feature rating bits, can I go ahead and snip out that page and submit a PR? | 15:58 |
| evilnickveitch | jcastro, if we are doing that then sure | 15:58 |
| jcastro | ok confirmed we are, working it now | 16:00 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, echos tell me that it's working, thanks :) | 16:13 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: you are most welcome | 16:13 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, | 16:20 |
| Muntaner | now I'm having a very strange issue | 16:20 |
| Muntaner | seems like the commands relation-get database return nothing | 16:23 |
| Muntaner | and they always worked | 16:23 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: Yes I have run into that before. Sometimes the hook is fired before all the data is available. Many database relation hooks exit 0 (silently) until the database' | 16:24 |
| mbruzek | key is in the relation-get | 16:24 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: which is the reason all hooks must be idempotent they could be called several times. An operation like building a database takes a little bit of time, so it is possible to have the relation fired before it is done. | 16:25 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, the strange thing is that if I put the unit-get etc I have the problem | 16:26 |
| Muntaner | if I comment it, the problem isn't present anymore | 16:26 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: Check out the following code I wrote: https://api.jujucharms.com/v4/precise/openmrs-1/archive/hooks/database-relation-changed | 16:29 |
| mbruzek | I followed the database-relation-changed pattern. Get all the database values and in `relation-get database` did not return anything `exit 0` because the relation could be called several times. | 16:29 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, sorry, I can't get it | 16:31 |
| Muntaner | I'm not understanding the "problem", if there is one :( | 16:31 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, sooo... how can I be sure that all the values aren't empty? | 16:38 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: check them all? | 16:39 |
| mbruzek | The code checks the "database" variable because that is the last one to be set. If that one is available the others should be too. | 16:40 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, if I do an exit 0... do the hook "finish" ? | 16:44 |
| mbruzek | If you exit 0 it stops there without an error | 16:45 |
| mbruzek | If you exit 1 Juju reads that return code as an error. | 16:45 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: The hook will be called again when database is set | 16:45 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, it seems like my hook did an exit 0 | 16:46 |
| Muntaner | and in fact, his execution stopped in half | 16:46 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, it does not seem to be called again... so my charm is in an "half deployed" status | 16:48 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: What are you writing the charm in? Use juju-log or echo or print() to debug this. If the charm is half deployed I would think you need to exit earlier if you don't have the data you need. Only do the configuration when you have all the data | 16:50 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, it's simple linux shell bash | 16:51 |
| mbruzek | always use set -ex for bash scripts so you can see the individual commands running. | 16:52 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, already using it | 16:53 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: then you should be able to figure out why the charm is half configured. | 16:53 |
| Muntaner | yes mbruzek, I know where I call the exit 0 because one variable is empty | 16:54 |
| Muntaner | but I can't figure how should I implement a workaround for this | 16:54 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: exit 0 early if you don't have all the information, when you have all the data continue to set up the whole configuration. | 16:54 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, I get lost at the "when you have all the data" part | 16:55 |
| mbruzek | All the database variables, and the private address, what ever your charm needs | 16:55 |
| Muntaner | yer mbruzek but I can't understand how can I check "when" I have them, since the hook exited | 16:56 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: the hook will be called again when you get more information | 16:56 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, btw, I'm not launching mysql and mycharm simultaneously: mysql is started since a long time | 16:57 |
| Muntaner | it's the same situation? | 16:57 |
| Muntaner | (I mean the mysql charm from the store) | 16:57 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: Yes this is a common patter to connect to a database charm. You can launch them simultaneously, the db-relation-changed hook can be called multiple times until you get all the database variables | 17:01 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, maybe I got it. my relation-changed is empty, actually I'm only writing in the relation-joined | 17:04 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: well there is your problem. | 17:04 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, now I echo some dumb stuff in the relation-changed and seems to work | 17:30 |
| Muntaner | bye guys, see you tomorrow :) | 17:38 |
| Muntaner | mbruzek, thanks for the tips | 17:38 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: you are welcome | 17:38 |
| mbruzek | Muntaner: glad you got it working. | 17:38 |
| mbruzek | Hey marcoceppi. If I wanted to rsync files between charms how would I set up creds? | 19:22 |
| marcoceppi | mbruzek: is this a peer relation or a service relation? | 19:22 |
| marcoceppi | suddenly wget doesn't seem so horrible ;) | 19:22 |
| mbruzek | marcoceppi: yes, that is the hook that I would use. | 19:22 |
| marcoceppi | peer? | 19:23 |
| mbruzek | no this would be a service relation | 19:23 |
| marcoceppi | icky, you'd have to have some kind of key exchange on the interface | 19:23 |
| marcoceppi | which isn't worth it anymore imo | 19:23 |
| marcoceppi | I thought this was a peer relation | 19:23 |
| mbruzek | How does peer relation make it better? | 19:23 |
| marcoceppi | mbruzek: the interface is virtually irrelevant, you can add any keys you want because it's an implicit relation between the units in the service/charm and not to other charms | 19:24 |
| mbruzek | I see. | 19:25 |
| mbruzek | marcoceppi: do you know of any charms that transfer *anything* via rsync ? | 19:26 |
| marcoceppi | i know they exist, not off the top of my head, but they're almost always peer relations | 19:27 |
| mbruzek | This would be more of a master/minion relation | 19:27 |
| mbruzek | Over the banana interface | 19:28 |
| lazyPower | mbruzek: i thought we refactored that to the starfruit interface | 19:28 |
| marcoceppi | so this is an interface you're creating? | 19:28 |
| mbruzek | marcoceppi: yes | 19:28 |
| mbruzek | marcoceppi: I have complete control | 19:28 |
| marcoceppi | mbruzek: then make the public key of that machine published on the interface | 19:28 |
| marcoceppi | public-key=`cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub` | 19:29 |
| marcoceppi | and have all the units that get that add that public key to their authorized-keys file | 19:29 |
| marcoceppi | then you can rsync to all the units | 19:29 |
| whit | http | 19:30 |
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| marcoceppi | or, http | 19:50 |
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| jcastro | whit, link me up! | 20:32 |
| whit | for jujubox? | 20:33 |
| whit | jcastro, one sec | 20:33 |
| whit | jcastro, https://registry.hub.docker.com/u/whitmo/jujubox/ | 20:33 |
| whit | jcastro, if you use docker 1.5.0 you can build and run charmbox, the second docker file | 20:34 |
| whit | jcastro, jujubox is only good for deploying, you need charmbox if you are doing any serious reviewing | 20:35 |
| jcastro | ack | 20:35 |
| jcastro | hey so, right off the bat | 20:35 |
| jcastro | in the "Once it's up" section in your docs | 20:36 |
| jcastro | put quickstart first, because you can't status without bootstrapping | 20:36 |
| jcastro | whit, also ran into this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10506159/ | 20:37 |
| jcastro | whit, ah I see, perhaps mention up front that the local provider won't work | 20:37 |
| jcastro | whit, have you posted this to the list? I don't see it there | 20:41 |
| whit | yeah that's mentioned in the "future" section but we should put it more prominently | 20:42 |
| whit | jcastro, it's only been mentioned as an aside wrt review queue | 20:42 |
| whit | jcastro, if you mount your $JUJU_HOME, status will work if you have an env bs'ed, but yeah will fix that for the barecase | 20:43 |
| jcastro | nod | 20:43 |
| jcastro | I was thinking more for the from-scratch case. | 20:44 |
| whit | jcastro, exactly | 20:44 |
| whit | jcastro, hypothetically it should run anywhere docker does | 20:44 |
| whit | jcastro, which is a nice story for folks who are not on ubuntu but want to try juju | 20:45 |
| jcastro | whit, man this is fast | 20:48 |
| jcastro | much faster than the vagrant box, heh | 20:48 |
| whit | jcastro, yup | 20:48 |
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| mbruzek | Juju peeps. My LXC environment seems to be corrupted. agent-state-info: 'failed to retrieve the template to clone: error executing "lxc-create": | 21:48 |
| mbruzek | Does anyone know how to fix something like that? I tried cleaning out the LXC images, but no go | 21:49 |
| mbruzek | $ sudo lxc-destroy -n mbruzek-local-machine-2 | 21:50 |
| mbruzek | lxc_container: lxccontainer.c: container_destroy: 2041 Error destroying rootfs for mbruzek-local-machine-2 | 21:50 |
| mbruzek | help? | 21:50 |
| rick_h_ | mbruzek: thumper is your local provider guy :) | 21:50 |
| waigani | mbruzek: what does `sudo lxc-ls --fancy` show? | 21:51 |
| mbruzek | waigani: pastebin.ubuntu.com/10506962/ | 21:54 |
| mbruzek | waigani: I tried to destroy the stopped containers but I can not. | 21:55 |
| mbruzek | waigani 1.21.3-vivid-amd64 if that makes any difference | 21:56 |
| waigani | mbruzek: have you tried with -f | 21:56 |
| mbruzek | yes | 21:56 |
| waigani | had to ask :) | 21:56 |
| mbruzek | $ sudo lxc-destroy -f -n mbruzek-local-machine-3 | 21:58 |
| mbruzek | lxc_container: lxccontainer.c: container_destroy: 2041 Error destroying rootfs for mbruzek-local-machine-3 | 21:58 |
| mbruzek | Destroying mbruzek-local-machine-3 failed | 21:58 |
| waigani | mbruzek: lxc-info -n mbruzek-local-machine-3 | 21:58 |
| mbruzek | Name: mbruzek-local-machine-3 | 21:59 |
| mbruzek | State: STOPPED | 21:59 |
| mbruzek | waigani http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10507040/ | 22:00 |
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| mbruzek | https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1307215 | 22:08 |
| mup | Bug #1307215: destroy-environment fails to clear lxc containers <destroy-environment> <local-provider> <lxc> <ubuntu-engineering> <juju-core:Invalid> <lxc (Ubuntu):Fix Released> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307215> | 22:08 |
| mbruzek | I used the work around deleting /var/lib/lxc/<image-dir> | 22:09 |
| waigani | mbruzek: sorry interrupted, I was just about to send you that link. Beat me to it. | 22:11 |
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| mbruzek | Thanks for your help waigani | 22:17 |
| waigani | mbruzek: np | 22:18 |
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| whit | hey cory_fu finally got back to your review comments. | 22:33 |
| whit | corey_fu not sure I understand the .git inclusion one | 22:33 |
| cory_fu | whit: Yeah, I replied to your comment on that one. | 22:37 |
| whit | cory_fu, ah thanks | 22:37 |
| cory_fu | whit: Regarding the gh: prefix, I assume that the .git suffix check means that Amulet (and thus deployer) support git repo http URLs, right? So, I was thinking amulet could just convert gh: prefix URLs to https: URLs to GitHub. I do also think deployer should add the gh: prefix as well, though | 22:38 |
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| whit | cory_fu, yeah I think both amulet and deployer would need to support it, but it should be an easy add | 23:02 |
| whit | cory_fu, of course, removing the duplication would mean that would just be a fix in deployer | 23:02 |
| whit | cory_fu, add the support for sniffing the .git control dir | 23:02 |
| cory_fu | whit: I still don't understand, though. If Amulet pre-processes gh:user/foo into https://github.com/user/foo.git, why would deployer need to support it? | 23:03 |
| whit | cory_fu, because it's not really useful for to create bundle files solely for testing | 23:04 |
| cory_fu | Agreed | 23:04 |
| whit | cory_fu, ie... you could use gh aliases for just simple test stuff, but your bundle files would still have to use the other | 23:04 |
| cory_fu | True | 23:04 |
| whit | cory_fu, so there is value supporting it in amulet, but it's less socially wierd if they both support it | 23:05 |
| cory_fu | I thought you meant it wouldn't work w/o deployer support. I agree that it's not useful w/o deployer support, though | 23:05 |
| whit | cory_fu, but really amulet shouldn't be worrying about concerns deployer or jujuclient should handle | 23:05 |
| cory_fu | Indeed | 23:06 |
| whit | but these technologies are organically grown based on need, so some pruning is to be expected | 23:06 |
| lazyPower | > "Less socially weird" | 23:11 |
| lazyPower | i like this analysis of our tooling | 23:11 |
| * marcoceppi welcomes all contributions that make amulet more or less socially weird | 23:15 | |
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