=== micahg_ is now known as micahg [06:10] slickymaster: fyi, there are new validation errors in the Spanish translation: https://launchpad.net/~dkessel/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-docs-daily/+build/7023758/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.xubuntu-docs_15.04-201503010545~201503020117~ubuntu15.04.1_BUILDING.txt.gz [07:14] pleia2: it's the same person [08:24] chances of something in #xubuntu topic re 4.12 are? low? high? slim? or even pointless? [10:28] elfy: wow, we really need a fix for exo out :) [10:28] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1427144 [10:28] Launchpad bug 1427144 in exo (Ubuntu) "firefox open blank pages when called from exo-open" [Undecided,New] [10:29] new bugs are reported every day it seems [11:26] * bluesabre waits very patiently for the package to get released [11:26] might as well start updating the ppa >.> [11:27] -release has been quiet all day [11:27] unfortunately [12:00] bluesabre: you mentioned you ported gtk_widget_reparent in some other apps already, got a pointer for me there? [12:00] ochosi: one sec [12:02] ochosi: parole/src/common/parole-common.c:38:parole_widget_reparent (GtkWidget *widget, GtkWidget *new_parent) [12:06] k thanks [12:06] maybe we should put that into libxfce4ui... [12:08] probably a good idea [12:08] libxfce4util got released [12:08] trying to get everything else in now [12:08] nice! [12:09] xfconf rebuild pushed, then libxfce4ui, then everything else [12:09] Hi [12:09] won't have time for all that this morning so.... (elfy: try to not update until this evening) [12:09] We have a package conflict between xubuntu-default-settings and ubuntu-mate-default-settings. [12:09] I'm prepairing a update to ubuntu-mate-default-settings now. [12:10] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-settings/+bug/1426862 [12:10] Launchpad bug 1426862 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "package xubuntu-default-settings (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/skel/.config/Trolltech.conf', which is also in package ubuntu-mate-default-settings 0.4.2ubuntu1" [Undecided,New] [12:10] yes, a file that is installed in /usr to set qt themees [12:10] er, not /usr, but in /home [12:10] not much we can do there, except either both not ship it, or make our packages Conflict with each other [12:11] it might actually make sense, however, to make all the -default-settings packages conflict with each other [12:11] bluesabre, I've added a Conflict for now. [12:11] Perhaps for 15.10 we can create a shared package? [12:11] Our requirements are not so different. [12:12] shared what package? [12:12] A shared package that put TrollTech.conf in /etc/skel/ [12:12] the only thing that differs for us should be the font [12:12] font="Droid Sans,10,-1,5,50,0,0,0,0,0" [12:12] isn't that a bit overkill? [12:13] a package for a config file.. [12:13] I think the -default-settings packages should all conflict [12:13] xubuntu-default-settings != mate-default-settings [12:13] bluesabre, Yes, just the font. But shall we discuss this for 15.10 and just mutually conflict for now? [12:13] yeah [12:13] we'll do that [12:13] Cool. [12:14] bluesabre, no, but what if one wants to use the mate and xfce desktops with ubuntu defaults? [12:14] bluesabre, that's the only reason why you'd not want them to conflict [12:14] then install ubuntu-default-settings [12:14] bluesabre, i don't mean "ubuntu desktop defaults" [12:14] but ubuntu defaults [12:14] then we should rename the packages if thats not their purpose [12:14] eg. what the defaults the ubuntu mate / xubuntu people built [12:15] bluesabre, you misunderstood me [12:15] people won't be able to install xubuntu- and mate-desktop parallel, because the default settings packages conflict? [12:16] brainvvash, no, they will, but they can't install both settings packages [12:16] and due to that, they can't have BOTH the "full xubuntu experience" [12:16] and the "full ubuntu mate experience" [12:16] well, at least we consider the default settings an integral part of the xubuntu experience [12:16] bluesabre, ^ do you understand now? [12:17] knome: if you install multiple desktop environments, the full xubuntu experience is usually broken [12:18] I'm not sure what you're suggesting, might have to spell it out [12:18] bluesabre, well i'm suggesting that this conflict will exaggerate that breaking up [12:20] knome: not much that can be done currently... if we want to have qt apps look normal and not have broken packages, that's the requirement (because of how and where qt stores its settings) [12:21] bluesabre, well i'm not saying we should drop the config either :P [12:21] conflicting is probably the sanest choice after all [12:22] but it's a bit meh itself as well [12:23] i'm actually with bluesabre on this one [12:23] creating a separate package seems overkill and as long as the various members of the ubuntu family use different defaults, that shared package would be very small [12:26] yep, that's not something i'd do [12:45] since the archive is slow, I've gone ahead and started uploading things for 14.10 into https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce-4.12 [12:45] it should be fully updated after everything builds [12:46] I'll finish up vivid tonight once xfconf lands [12:47] bbl [12:47] nice, thanks bluesabre [12:53] ochosi: holy duplicates batman :p [12:53] bluesabre: thanks [12:56] namtab [12:58] hi knome [13:00] hello elfy [13:39] fun, someone wants a snapshot of "xubuntu14.10's source" [13:39] for some foss license checking [13:40] i don't suppose there's an easy way to get the complete source [13:48] no [15:31] elfy: I guess I was confused when you agreed with < pleia2> elfy: yeah, so our criteria for winner should be "top non-team tester who hasn't won yet?" [15:31] I don't think we're actually on the same page here :) [16:22] pleia2, definitely not, you're in the US, he's in the UK [16:22] :P [16:22] how could you be on "the 'same' page" [16:24] bbabl [18:00] pleia2: there would have been TWO winners [18:00] there is ONE - who HAS won both :) [18:03] elfy: yeah, I'm still confused :) [18:04] my implication was that we take the next on the list [18:04] I have no idea what you mean by that :D [18:05] so the list looks like [18:05] joe [18:05] sally [18:05] fred [18:05] next time we look - even though this one might win, they'd not get stickers next one down will [18:05] joe already won last time, so sally gets it this time [18:06] I really don't care anymore - I've lost the will to live [18:07] sorry :( I'm just trying to understand [18:07] yea [18:07] I know - not blaming you [18:07] but all of us - we all knew this was going on [18:07] * genii makes more coffee and tries to understand what's going on [18:07] for months and months and months [18:08] I can't change the past and I'm not perfect [18:08] I didn't fully think out how this would work, and I'm sorry [18:08] pleia2: if I was blaming you - I'd be talking to you privately [18:08] I'm not - it's all of our fault :) [18:08] so can we figure this out without quitting? [18:08] :D [18:09] not now we can't - I've just got in from work [18:09] abd dinner is at the door [18:09] sure, just let me know when you're available [18:10] knome: I have the address for our first winner :) so whenever you need me to print out things or whatever, lmk [18:11] * pleia2 back2work [18:25] yeah dkessel, I know. Thanks [18:25] hadn't yet time to check what's going on [18:26] xubuntu-default-settings has a stuck SRU for trusty? [18:26] when's the exo fix going to land to trusty/utopic? [18:32] Unit193, the issue with es.po was with index.xml, wasn't it? [18:37] Validating es/index.xml ... [18:37] migrating-upgrading.xml:337: element xref: validity error : Element xref does not carry attribute linkend [18:37] migrating-upgrading.xml:337: element xref: validity error : No declaration for attribute linked of element xref [18:37] guide-keeping-safe.xml:297: element menuchoice: validity error : Element menuchoice content does not follow the DTD, expecting (shortcut? , (guibutton | guiicon | guilabel | guimenu | guimenuitem | guisubmenu | interface)+), got [18:38] Document es/index.xml does not validate [18:38] ok, thanks [18:38] I'm downloading the all file to check it... once again :P [18:38] basically it always says index.xml doesn't validate [18:38] because the rest of the stuff is pulled in via it [18:39] knome: IMO it'd be great to have exo 0.10.3 pulled in rather than just a single fix. [18:40] maybe, but really, we need the FIX NOW [18:40] the newer exo can wait [18:40] https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2015-February/034200.html [18:44] knome, Unit193, the issue with es.po is, and once again, extra spaces within the tags :P [18:44] msgstr "Para ver fácilmente el camino que tomó para llegar al directorio actual, puede cambiar las opciones de vista por defecto. En el menú Administrador de archivos, seleccione Ver Selector de ubicación Estilo de barra de ruta . Ahora usted puede hacer clic en cualquier icono de la barra de ruta para cambiar a [18:44] this idiom is starting to drive me insane [18:45] slickymaster, you should really contact the people working on the translation [18:45] i'm pretty sure it's the same people that keep producing the invalid markup [18:46] Paco [18:46] the translator itself is new to me, at least his LP username [18:46] Unit193, i was thinking that [18:46] yeah Unit193, that's the main culprit [18:46] he's the reviewer :P [18:47] which means he doesn't review %&#"! [18:47] who's the admins for the spanish ubuntu translators team? [18:47] no idea [18:47] I could check it out [18:47] but not today, too damn tired and angry [18:48] well, at least it's just one occurence... today :P [18:49] :) [18:54] knome, just uploaded es.po, it's sitting in https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs/vivid/+imports [18:54] care to validate it, please? [18:59] done [18:59] danka [19:02] knome: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/exo/+bug/1425972 [19:02] Launchpad bug 1425972 in exo (Ubuntu) "Firefox no longer supports -remote parameter" [Medium,Confirmed] [19:05] Or, if Xfce has a MRE I can just do that. [19:06] there is one more bug, unless elfy removed that [19:07] pleia2: about for a while [19:07] knome: not done any dupes since a while back [19:07] elfy, mhm [19:08] Unit193, so i know about the release, and i know it's fixed upstream, and i know the solution (i even posted a few days ago to one of the bugs), i'm just saying i want the fix landed. [19:18] elfy: I think I'm just confused because you keep saying things that make me think we mean the same thing, but then I don't understand why we have one person getting stickers for 2 testing segments [19:19] because the dailies are seperate from all the milestones [19:20] there'll be a new set for March and April [19:20] and however many milestones there are between now and release [19:20] I see, so we're tracking winners for dailies separate from milestones? [19:20] yea [19:20] ok, that's where I didn't understand [19:21] ok :) [19:21] but for the next round, if the same guy wins everything again, we pick the next one down, yeah? [19:21] if we'd started this at the beginning we'd have 6 dailies and x milestones [19:21] pleia2: no reason why not to look at it once we've done so for sure :) [19:22] k [19:22] maybe next time add milestones into whatever month [19:22] so we'd just have 6 [19:22] otoh, milestones being a different competition might get people to test them [19:23] because you will need less tests to win that than for a month [19:23] yea [19:27] and since we'd either need to fold certificates or pay much more in shipping for big envelope, I'm just going to write a little thank you note with the stickers and they can request a certificate to print themselves if they want [19:27] I only have a black and white printer, and it's not like they're going to hang it on their wall anyway :P [19:29] :) [19:30] should request funds from the fund for a book for the cycle winner now [19:35] so knome it's 19: [19:35] yes [19:35] 35 now :) [19:35] good idea [19:35] :D [19:37] pleia2: I would, but I've just done it for me [19:39] should get a nexus 7 in the post tomorrow [20:21] andrzejr: I presume you didn't see my comment about xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin and -lm? [20:22] Unit193, nope. Sorry I was very busy last couple of weeks. What about "-lm"? [20:26] After 6 months of waiting for a responce, i have failed MOTU again [20:27] andrzejr: Sure, sure. Noticed when trying it out, -lm (math lib, for panel-plugin/pulseaudio-button.c) doesn't get added when using --as-needed. Is it missing from the configure.ac/in script or Makefile somewhere perhaps? [20:28] yes, it is not there. How to reproduce the issue? [20:34] Noskcaj: :( [20:34] I assume they said why [20:35] I don't follow up on uploads enough (which is not an issue i beleive i have had for months) [20:35] And that includes my xubuntu packageset application, where i don't think i've had a bad upload [20:42] andrzejr: Just export LDFLAGS='-Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,defs' before you build. [20:44] compilation passes just fine. [20:44] I have a fix but I don't know how to test it [20:44] /home/unit193/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0.1.0/panel-plugin/pulseaudio-button.c:338: undefined reference to `lround' [20:44] /home/unit193/xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin-0.1.0/panel-plugin/pulseaudio-button.c:340: undefined reference to `lround' [20:45] can you check the fix if I push it to git? [20:46] Of course. [20:46] (I'm compiling from the release, but can change that.) [20:47] Or, just pass me a patch. Either way works. [20:48] pushed [20:55] plugin/pulseaudio-dialog_ui.h seemed to be missing, but yep that commit fixed it, thanks, andrzejr. [20:56] the version from git needs --enable-maintainer-mode to generate some files [21:02] elfy, slickymaster: i'll be here in 5-10 mins after i've booted my desktop and prepared a bit [21:03] ok [21:04] ok [21:11] here i am [21:11] slickymaster, take the lead [21:15] knome: is it bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu ? [21:15] elfy, if you want to look what we currently have (in 14.10) [21:15] elfy, then yes [21:16] elfy, if you want to see the PoC stuff, it's in lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/1504-changes [21:16] that's be more sensible :p [21:16] just a second guys [21:16] elfy, that's also where i'll be doing changes today if i need to work on issues not related to content [21:16] slickymaster, 1 second gone [21:16] had to reboot [21:17] another one then [21:17] slickymaster, 2 seconds gone [21:17] knome: also - draft - incoming stupid link [21:17] https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1LCjpeRCAmy0sZVpXCpNurRBSGj8s08ENgF1Dokz080M/viewform [21:17] elfy, also http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow [21:17] elfy, i'd probably make it column based [21:18] elfy, but let's get back to that a tad later [21:18] knome: yea looked at that ... [21:19] let's start by the begining [21:19] do we agree on the new propsed slide order? [21:19] * proposed [21:19] i'm good with it [21:19] elfy? [21:19] so am I [21:19] he's the one who proposed it :P [21:19] ok, that's it then [21:19] :) [21:20] until he has mental issues, i'd guess he'd agree with it [21:20] * slickymaster had to ask anyway [21:20] :) [21:20] so, welcome slide [21:21] knome, artwork wise, any changes planned to land? [21:21] well you said you're fine with the artwork we have now, so no [21:21] knome: so your's currently is empty(ish) [21:21] ok, but the pink will be dropped, right? [21:22] elfy, yeah [21:22] slickymaster, yes, i'll redo the overall looks [21:22] slickymaster, but i was referring to the welcome slide artwork since i thought you were asking about that [21:22] I did try and persuade ochosi and knome that cyan would be the choice for Vervet [21:22] elfy, who knows if i have a cyanish wallpaper in progress! [21:22] IMO, I don't see yeah, that was just a small detour [21:23] without the IMO [21:24] IMO, I don't see much options to chnage the text of the slide [21:25] it's a good welcoming and rephrasing it just for the sake of it doesn't make much sense [21:26] which slide? [21:26] the welcome [21:26] first one [21:26] k - yep - agree [21:26] knome, yes/no/maybe? [21:26] i'm agreeing to everything unless i explicitly state i am disagreeing [21:26] oki doke [21:27] moving on then [21:27] slickymaster: I'll do the same as knome [21:27] ok, Ready to go [21:27] so what's the purpose of this slide [21:27] the current slide has the app list [21:27] this one will have the preinstalled apps [21:28] but in the new proposed slideshow we have a slide for whisker [21:28] you are going to have to explicitly state which slide you're talking about [21:28] but none to actually mentioned the preinstalled apps [21:29] 23:27 slickymaster: ok, Ready to go [21:29] elfy, so a slide with that name currently has the list of preinstalled apps [21:29] the second on the 'new order' [21:29] elfy, but the new proposed one has that slideshow and a "whisker menu" slideshow listed [21:29] right - just needed to know which order we're looking at them in :) [21:29] do they serve the same purpose [21:30] yeah, until now we had the xubuntu desktop covering this [21:30] fwiw, i reordered the things under "New slideshow draft" to the new order [21:30] '1 [21:30] so you can fill in content you think the slides need there [21:30] ?! [21:30] knome: I don't think they do serve the same purpose [21:30] i was just asking :) [21:30] because i'm not sure what the whisker menu slide is doing [21:30] do we still want to keep on highlighting it? [21:31] i vaguely remember slickymaster saying we could drop that slide [21:31] the whisker was first born because of the seachable feature [21:31] well - it's not new [21:31] slickymaster, no, there's a slide about whisker now [21:31] I mean the new one [21:31] slickymaster, the search thing was about revamping that slide [21:31] yes knome ^^ [21:31] but if we don't do the search, do we need the whisker slide? [21:31] in that case no [21:32] besides whisker is devil [21:32] ;) [21:32] and i'm sorry that i bring this up now, but i think it's good to know if we have that slide in order to know what we want on this other app slide [21:32] so, [21:32] the ready to go slide [21:32] how do we want to list the apps there? [21:33] are we dropping the hoovering through the apps interaction? [21:33] knome that was one of the possibilities we discussed [21:34] i am thinking "probably" [21:34] if we think the slide is too cluttered [21:34] we can show it in two parts [21:34] so it is almost like two slides [21:34] but which progress at double speed [21:35] not seeing it [21:35] though i'm not specifically excited about that either [21:35] that was ending up to be the only interaction the slideshow would had [21:35] * knome shrugs [21:36] which means that we'll continue with a static installer [21:36] maybe i changed my mind about fussing too much with the slideshow [21:36] well, not necessarily [21:36] why a need for interaction ? [21:36] we can add dynamic things into it [21:36] without the user having to interact with it [21:36] elfy, to make it a bit exciting so users would actually follow/read it [21:36] knome, like ...? [21:36] slickymaster, well, i don't know [21:36] yeah, the all idea was to make it catchier [21:37] slickymaster, like the app paths on hover [21:37] knome: ok - but if we're going to add a slide pointing people at a poll - don't we want some time spent there? [21:37] slickymaster, small things like that which improve the slideshow, but do not take anything away from it if the user doesn't feel like playing with it [21:37] that's if we do ofc [21:37] * slickymaster agrees [21:37] elfy, yes, and that's a good question [21:37] elfy, sounds to me like the poll should be at the last slide if possible [21:38] yes [21:38] thing is elfy, if we place the pool too soon, users will stop paying attention to the installer itself [21:38] slickymaster: yes I agree - that's not why I bring it up :) [21:39] ok, so returning to the Ready to go slide [21:39] we could use this one to display the preinstalled applications, and if possible use the app paths on hover [21:40] idea [21:40] opinions? [21:40] from my pov the likelihood of me ever hovering over anything like that would be slim tbh [21:40] fwiw, i'd do the app paths on all slides hover :) [21:41] elfy, i'll make sure the style is visually encouraging you to do that [21:41] but as i said... it shouldn't be something that makes the slideshow lesser even if you don't hover [21:41] so knome, basically we only have to had code to the previous Ready to go slide [21:42] had some [21:42] question [21:42] shoot [21:42] is it possible to have slide view time different for specific slides? [21:42] I think so [21:43] I mean, it's set by a timer I think [21:43] not with the slideshow as it is now, but i can probably look at that [21:43] slickymaster, which is configurable per-slideshow, not per-slide [21:43] ah, ok [21:43] but we can probably bump that slider to a bigger value at the beginning of a certain slide [21:43] will you check that out knome? [21:44] ok - just wondering - maybe if we do more with this one - have it visible for a bit longer [21:44] anyway - move along :) [21:44] slickymaster, if it's needed, i will [21:44] right [21:44] at some point [21:44] not right now [21:44] third slide -> Personalize (login) [21:45] this include setting up user information and additional accounts [21:45] why is menu editing on that slide? [21:45] I see a problem from the start with this one [21:45] which is that bug mugshot is having [21:46] the new draft doesn't talk about menus or mugshot [21:46] the menulibre stuff would be on the next slide, mugshot removed [21:46] mugshot isn't new either any more [21:47] but it's what's used by default to set up user info [21:47] that's its main job [21:48] oh that's right [21:48] * knome isn't thinking straight, some headache here [21:48] but eh [21:48] don't know, wasn't bluesabre looking at that bug [21:48] slickymaster: surely when working the slides out - it shouldn't depend on a bug? [21:48] other then the data a user provide during the installation, what are one supposed to use to add that info to the system [21:49] I think that slide needs to be there [21:49] no elfy, my point is: we're talking about setting up personnal info, but what do we provide users to that end? [21:50] I think the same also [21:50] maybe we should try to go over what is needed faster [21:50] then focus on what the exact content should be [21:51] in that context knome, that slide is already defined in our draft, and I do agree with what's theer [21:51] * there [21:52] so, can we move forward? [21:52] yes [21:53] Customization options [21:53] i think the laid out outline is good; cover wallpapers, gtk theme config and menulibre [21:53] I would hate to loose the changing wallpapers idea on this one [21:53] that's more likely something for 16.04 [21:53] 7o| [21:54] hah [21:54] well it doesn't make too much sense to show wallpapers from a contest one year ago... [21:54] menulibre moving to this one? [21:55] i would say so [21:55] bit busy? [21:55] or just gtk theme and menulibre ? [21:55] can't say before the content is laid out [21:55]