[01:24] <diddledan> dum de dum
[01:40] <zmoylan-pi> doobie doobie doo
[01:48] <diddledan> do yoo 'ave a lissonce for this minkey?
[01:56] <diddledan> do yoo 'ave a lissonce for this minkey?
[01:59] <zmoylan-pi> the monkey doesn't tell me what to play and i don't tell the monkey what to do with his money
[02:04] <diddledan> I have no idea what my nickserv password is
[02:08] <zmoylan-pi> glad that was cleared up :-)
[04:02] <m0nkey_> g'night all
[08:25] <diplo> Morning all
[08:40] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[08:43] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:17] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:18] <MooDoo> morning chap
[09:19] <davmor2> MooDoo: Pip pip, tally ho, olwd bean, in top form dear chap, you?
[09:20] <MooDoo> yeah man ok
[09:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: for some reason I expected a Peace Man \/m
[09:28] <MooDoo> lol
[10:10] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Grammar Day! :-D
[10:14] <daftykins> ^_^
[10:16] <daftykins> good morning indeed
[10:16] <daftykins> argh there's an air conditioning unit near here that's periodically making a huge squeaky racket :P
[10:16] <foobarry> wd40 in the intake :P
[10:19] <daftykins> mmm, trouble is i can't quite pinpoint where it's coming from
[10:19] <daftykins> i love on a narrow steep lane, so the sound is bouncing like crazy
[10:19] <daftykins> tempted to ask the hotel opposite but it might not be theirs, could be a unit that's just beside some flats
[10:19] <daftykins> though it has all manner of barbed wire fencing up to it
[10:21] <daftykins> in other news - i just received a super cheap £208 Lenovo 15" intel i3 laptop!
[10:21] <daftykins> pretty neat it is too 0o
[10:21] <popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/2xto6a/i_was_at_the_canonical_stand_and_spent_5_minutes/
[10:21] <daftykins> XD
[10:26] <davmor2> JamesTait: One is particularly proud of 'is lack of grammar :P "The Walter in Majorca Don't Taste like Wot rit Aughta" and all that pip pip, tally ho
[10:27] <daftykins> XD
[10:29] <JamesTait> I'm sorry, davmor2, I have no idea what you just said. :-P
[10:30] <davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9_YfIQaz4
[10:32] <JamesTait> popey, that link makes me smile, and reminds me of the second time I met Jane.  I was at Millbank for a sprint and, being only my second visit to the office, I thought I'd have a walk round and introduce myself to a few people.  I bumped into Jane in the kitchen, recognised her, and introduced myself with "Hello, I don't think we've met - I'm James."
[10:33] <JamesTait> popey, her response?  "Yes, I know, we met before when you were going to Italy."
[10:33] <popey> :)
[10:33] <daftykins> "now give me back my mug"
[10:33] <JamesTait> I felt like an idiot, but she was so nice about it.
[10:34] <daftykins> should've used the twin brother defense
[10:34] <JamesTait> I used the "New guy, flying visit, still finding my feet" tactic.
[10:35] <JamesTait> Which was perfectly valid - I'd been with the company three weeks, as I recall.
[10:36] <daftykins> :D
[10:38] <daftykins> hmm i might use this Windows 8.1 Lenovo as an opportunity to document an Ubuntu beside Windows dualboot install
[10:39] <daftykins> so many get drowned in the many ridiculous partitions these OEM things come with
[10:39] <JamesTait> davmor2, I remember that advert - I'd forgotten just how well she does the accents, though. :D
[10:40] <davmor2> JamesTait: it's the bloke at the end that tickles me after she's done such a great job :)
[10:40] <JamesTait> "Ya, absolutely wrong!"
[10:41] <popey> woah, skype is built into windows 10?
[10:41] <daftykins> yip
[10:41] <daftykins> as will be the program to stream from the xbox 0o
[10:41] <davmor2> popey: well MS owns them so why wouldn't they
[10:41] <foobarry> like msn was "built in"?
[10:41] <popey> true
[10:42] <foobarry> its like antitrust never happened
[10:42] <daftykins> i don't think the case was ever about instant messaging programs
[10:43] <foobarry> it killed aim/yahoo and others
[10:43] <daftykins> yahoo's still going afaik
[10:43] <foobarry> and real player had a case too
[10:43] <foobarry> althought real SUCKED
[10:44] <daftykins> realBUFFERINGplayer :>
[10:44] <foobarry> In October, 2005, Microsoft agreed to pay RealNetworks $460 million to settle an antitrust lawsuit.[10]
[10:45] <foobarry> Number of employees
[10:45] <foobarry> 1,060 (2012)
[10:45] <foobarry> wow
[10:50] <daftykins> that's how many Real had?
[10:53] <foobarry> in 2012
[10:53] <foobarry> and probably still have them
[10:53] <foobarry> yahoo and real are enigmas to me
[10:54] <popey> real (until recently) were paid licenses by a number of tv networks for their streaming servers
[10:54] <popey> yahoo are paid by large companies who have content deals
[10:55] <popey> e.g. SAP has/had Yahoo! integration
[10:59] <foobarry> bought a load of batteries off ebay, seem to be good prices
[10:59] <foobarry> the same duracells i usually buy
[11:00] <daftykins> you're not a rechargable fan?
[11:00] <foobarry> not with the kids
[11:00] <foobarry> we have so many devices
[11:00] <foobarry> sometimes the batteries stay there for years
[11:00] <foobarry> and get passed on with the batteries still there
[11:01] <foobarry> other things (wii) then i'm not organised enough to have a good supply
[11:01] <daftykins> 7dayshop.com is always worth a look, used to be a local warehouse but i'm not sure what they do now
[11:02] <daftykins> i've got some great 2900mAh AA's from them
[11:02] <foobarry> use a lot of their stuff
[11:02] <foobarry> for audio work i do
[11:02] <foobarry> powering wireles mics etc
[11:03] <daftykins> ah neat
[11:04] <daftykins> we used to have LVCR or low value consignment relief, which was a loophole from the 80s to allow cheap flower export to England to be VAT free. Sadly it had been taken advantage of by etailers such as HMV and 7dayshop there... so the UK gov decided to kill it
[11:04] <foobarry> sometimes you just need duracells to get you through 6 hrs of handheld mic though
[11:04] <daftykins> overnight these companies packed up and moved to somewhere in Europe instead
[11:05] <foobarry> what was the jersey based cd company?
[11:05] <daftykins> play.com
[11:05] <foobarry> cdwow?
[11:05] <foobarry> and them too,
[11:05] <foobarry> used to like play.com
[11:05] <daftykins> mmm, it was good for a time
[11:05] <foobarry> then they killed it
[11:06] <foobarry> with 3rd party sellers
[11:06] <foobarry> and probably the UK gov thing was at the same time then
[11:07] <daftykins> i think there was a great decline beforehand, not sure on timing though
[11:07] <daftykins> ooh my the main telco is rolling out 4G hardware
[11:08] <daftykins> makes no difference to me :D
[11:08] <foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fujitsu-ScanSnap-S1300i-PC-MAC/dp/B008F05ND6
[11:08] <foobarry> this looks cool
[11:08] <foobarry> maybe a "nice to have"
[11:08] <foobarry> rather than worth it though
[11:09] <foobarry> chomps up magazines v quickly
[11:10] <daftykins> heh
[11:10] <foobarry> some guy is givign me a massive load of old scale modelling magz
[11:10] <daftykins> i got a free printer with this cheap Lenovo laptop today, Canon Pixma iP2850
[11:11] <foobarry> don't mind if its destructive scanning, but i want to archive them
[11:11] <daftykins> magazine subscriptions?
[11:11] <foobarry> of course the pilatesbay could help with newer stuff if i actaully own them
[11:11] <foobarry> going back 10yrs or so
[11:11] <foobarry> about 5 diffeerent magz
[11:12] <foobarry> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFQQ1a_KY-Y seems pretty quick process
[11:13] <foobarry> unsure if i need a computer on , or i cuold send to my microserver
[11:13] <daftykins> scanners that dump direct onto a network file share are great :D
[11:14] <foobarry> yeah
[11:15] <foobarry> ouch the network one is £350
[11:21] <foobarry> also linux support is poor for the 1300i
[11:26] <daftykins> :(
[11:26] <daftykins> hmm grabbing a 14.04.2 ISO to throw on this flash drive then install beside Windows on this Lenovo :D
[11:27]  * directhex moos
[11:28] <daftykins> a wild hexy
[11:28] <daftykins> good to see you on the ol' xbox one often, sir - whether it's yourself or wifey
[11:42] <directhex> daftykins: the kinect can spy me in the kitchen
[11:43] <zmoylan-pi> where the presence of a potential hot grease discourages nudity... :-)
[11:43] <popey> i never use my xbox
[11:43] <popey> always sam on it
[11:44] <popey> so the avatar is now looking like him
[11:46] <popey> i should figure out one day if we can both have an account on it and be on live and me not pay extra
[11:47] <Myrtti> yes
[11:47] <zmoylan-pi> and if you do ms will find a way to stop that :-)
[11:47] <daftykins> i think there's some kind of family setup, not sure on the details though
[11:50] <directhex> popey: as of xbox one, yes. xbox 360 no.
[11:50] <popey> bummer
[11:55] <daftykins> well this is novel, normally i'm the one shocked at people unable to get a machine to boot ubuntu over in #ubuntu - but this Lenovo is really proving difficult 0o
[11:57] <zmoylan-pi> secure boot off, bios on
[11:57] <zmoylan-pi> hammer raised :-)
[11:57] <zmoylan-pi> oh is this the new security thingy lenovo do...
[11:58] <zmoylan-pi> verified boot
[11:58] <daftykins> i'll keep going through my flash drive collection, i don't think it liked that one
[11:58] <daftykins> a win7 drive came up fine both EFI and legacy
[11:58] <zmoylan-pi> a thingy lenovo calls boot guard
[12:01] <NET||abuse> hi guys. has anyone here managed to get an IPSEC vpn connection setup in 14.10?
[12:01] <NET||abuse> i'm not sure what route to take and google is showing some pretty gnarly guides in the results
[12:02] <directhex> NET||abuse: server or client?
[12:02] <NET||abuse> trying to connect from my laptop to the office
[12:02] <NET||abuse> they gave me a networkconnect file (xml) and a document for mac connections..
[12:02] <directhex> network-manager-strongswan installed?
[12:03] <NET||abuse> tis now
[12:03] <NET||abuse> somehow i didn't land on the askubuntu article..
[12:03] <jpds> directhex / NET||abuse: n-m-strongswan is le broken.
[12:03] <NET||abuse> ended up digging through a bunch of other old articles.
[12:04] <NET||abuse> oh?
[12:04] <jpds> NET||abuse: Yeah, n-m changed the API and broke the plugin.
[12:04] <jpds> NET||abuse: Configuring it directly in /etc/ipsec.conf works though.
[12:05] <NET||abuse> ok,, how dirty do i need to get my hands to do that?
[12:05] <jpds> Depends.
[12:06] <daftykins> well there's a useful comment ;)
[12:06] <NET||abuse> if i've done "apt-get install strongswan network-manager-strongswan" do i need to change which packages i've installed.
[12:06] <jpds> daftykins: ...on your IPsec knowledge.
[12:06] <jpds> NET||abuse: Nope.
[12:06] <jpds> NET||abuse: Is the other end a strongswan server?
[12:06] <jpds> Ubuntu server with strongSwan*
[12:07] <NET||abuse> not sure.
[12:07] <NET||abuse> probably not
[12:07] <NET||abuse> i'm trying to https port for the host specified.
[12:07] <jpds> You should find that out.
[12:07] <NET||abuse> i've no real way.
[12:07] <jpds> Could be Cisco, Juniper, etc...
[12:07] <NET||abuse> it's a government vpn, some closed up department
[12:08] <jpds> Surely your local admin should be setting this up?
[12:08] <daftykins> ok nope that was easy - system just didn't like the flash drive :) now it's bootable just dandy
[12:08] <NET||abuse> they don't offer that service, and they certainly dont support linux
[12:09] <zmoylan-pi> phew daftykins
[12:16] <daftykins> now to consider whether 'install alongside Windows' or manual partitioning would be wisest
[12:17] <popey> has that bug been fixed which wipes out windows?
[12:18] <jpds> daftykins: Neither.
[12:18] <jpds> Oh, wait, fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1265192
[12:19] <daftykins> well i'm doing this a slightly cunning way
[12:19] <daftykins> i've actually used windows 8 to backup the recovery, some files, deleted a wasteful partition then resized C:
[12:20] <daftykins> so this 14.04.2 64-bit ISO just successfully offered to create root and swap in the space i had already created
[12:20] <daftykins> but the point is i'm gonna document it for others :D so i can restore it to how it was if i naff up
[12:23] <daftykins> oh dear i didn't realise 14.04.2 comes with the utopic HWE, no thank you
[12:27] <directhex> non-lts HWE is ubuntu's solution to the "how to make LTS boot on new computers" issue
[12:27] <directhex> which is a historical problem in ubuntu
[12:27] <directhex> the alternative is backporting the world, which requires more engineer time
[12:27] <directhex> e.g. red hat's kernels which say "i am version x" but have most of version x+7's features glued in
[12:29] <daftykins> mmm, i've just seen it get messy for others when the HWE ends support, would rather just stay on 100% LTS
[12:32] <daftykins> am i imagining it, or did Ubuntu or rather Ubiquity used to copy the data you created during a live session, in ~, to the new install?
[12:33] <diddledan> ali1234, sorry, I'm about to post a graham clueless link.. everyone else, new ssl vuln: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/03/freak-attack-what-is-it-heres-what-you-need-to-know/
[12:34] <popey> nope
[12:34] <popey> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/04/crossy-road-mobile-game-10m-freemium
[12:37] <shauno> 'new'  hehe
[12:37] <diddledan> yeah well
[12:37] <diddledan> newly announced
[12:38] <daftykins> popey: was that a nope to me?
[12:38] <popey> yes
[12:38] <daftykins> thanks :>
[12:40] <shauno> that's an interesting line, "Do you have an iPhone, an Android or a Mac OS X computer? It affects you."
[12:40] <shauno> I just tried chrome & firefox on win7, both came up flagged.  I guess that's not as sexy though?
[12:41] <daftykins> what's worse to me, is he says "On Android devices, make sure to use something else instead of the built-in Android Browser."
[12:41] <shauno> sometimes it feels like editors go "nice article, but it doesn't mention apple.  go back and squeeze them in, kthxbye"
[12:41] <daftykins> i think that depends on version 0o
[12:41] <daftykins> hah
[12:42] <daftykins> nothing like a good Apple bashing
[12:42] <shauno> they've truely overtaken msft :)
[12:42] <zmoylan-pi> aren't all alternate browsers on ios limited
[12:44] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, all alternative browsers on ios are just an apple-provided webview inside a wrapper app
[12:44] <daftykins> used to be, the API was all that was available so you were basically just... ^
[12:44] <daftykins> still remember the boss' kid saying "my friend made a BROWSER!" and i was saying no, no he really didn't.
[12:45] <diddledan> lol
[12:45] <zmoylan-pi> so would that make them more limited in terms of this new freak attack?
[12:45] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpgq7krtmko3ysr/IMG_20150304_124348.jpg?dl=0
[12:45] <daftykins> super cheap machine!
[12:45] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, it means that if the freak affects safari on ios then it affects all the other browsers too
[12:46] <davmor2> \o/ ubuntu phones browser is safe from freakattack :D
[12:46] <zmoylan-pi> and if apple did or does fix it how far back does that patch reach iphone 4's?
[12:46] <popey> heh
[12:47] <popey> just wipe it and put cyanoge... oh hang on
[12:47] <diddledan> it might go as far back as the 4, more likely the 4S or even 5 minimum
[12:47] <daftykins> the 4 vanilla didn't get iOS 8, but the 4S did - so probably only the S
[12:48] <popey> I should wipe my 4S and give it to wifey
[12:49] <popey> she's bumbling along with a 4
[12:49] <daftykins> might be worth seeing how much 8.1.3 or whatever they're up to now, grinds it to a halt :D
[12:51] <daftykins> hrmm £21 to double this little thing to 8GB RAM
[12:52] <diddledan> doo eet

[12:52] <popey> \o/ wiped iphone
[12:52] <daftykins> right now the machine stands at £208 cost :D
[12:52] <popey> what machine is it?
[12:52] <diddledan> 229 sounds so much better
[12:53] <popey> hah, neat, just got an email from apple saying find my iphone has been disabled now I wiped it
[12:53] <daftykins> Lenovo B50-70, intel i3 4030U, 4GB RAM and 500GB HD
[12:53] <popey> we need a find my ubuntu phone
[12:53] <davmor2> popey: why it's alway on the desk in front of me ;)
[12:53] <popey> that's your phone
[12:54] <diddledan> I'm cold :-(
[12:54] <popey> I want _my_ phone
[12:54] <popey> daftykins: did it come with that superfish thing?
[12:54] <diddledan> ooh, it's lunch time
[12:54] <daftykins> popey: not sure, gonna wipe it anyway.
[12:54] <diddledan> food ftw
[12:54] <daftykins> likely put 7 on instead of 8, if it goes to mother
[12:54] <diddledan> <norman bates> Yessss, mother!
[12:55] <davmor2> diddledan: you're norman bates......quick arrest the psycho
[12:55] <diddledan> speaking of mother - don't you love how in the original alien movie the computers are text-output
[12:55] <zmoylan-pi> you'll need an ssd if she's in a rocking chair :-)
[12:56] <directhex> diddledan: have you played Alien Isolation? they didn't update that at all - it's delightfully future-retro
[12:57] <diddledan> .. and how they thought it would look more computery if the text appeared one character at a time
[12:57] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7t7n5llpq5dyuc7/AACsIO22uCVR3MUceENXe3yla?dl=0
[13:00] <daftykins> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10526631/ - OEM machines are such a mess partitions wise :P
[13:01] <popey> yeah
[13:01] <zmoylan-pi> saves 1-2p on supplying recovery disks
[13:02] <daftykins> now i have to wait ~28 days to ask for the £50 cashback from Lenovo
[13:02] <daftykins> oh crap i see smoke outside
[13:03] <daftykins> argh there's a courtyard behind my place so it's impossible to even work out what house/shop/office it's coming from
[13:03] <daftykins> proper white stuff rising though O_O
[13:03] <zmoylan-pi> evacuate just in case
[13:04] <daftykins> well it's only me and the cat in mine ;)
[13:04] <zmoylan-pi> unless the cat is smart and has already left the building in a calm relaxed manner
[13:05] <daftykins> nope still sunning herself on the stairs
[13:06] <daftykins> that's the life
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> find sunbeam and enter suspended animation...
[13:12] <popey> i shut the door to the rest of the house, the cats are stuck in here with me
[13:13]  * daftykins hears a chorus of scared miaows
[13:13] <daftykins> oh my, 1pm already
[13:13] <diddledan> daftykins, food!
[13:14] <daftykins> indeed!
[13:14] <daftykins> debating going out on a visit, too
[13:14] <daftykins> now that i have finished playing with the toy, at least for now
[13:14] <daftykins> the free printer it came with i'm not so excited about...
[13:15] <zmoylan-pi> not big enough for cat to sleep on? :-)
[13:15] <daftykins> :D
[13:15] <daftykins> it's not in direct sunlight right now ;)
[13:15] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qvpm9jntf1rclt/IMG_20150304_131504.jpg?dl=0
[13:16] <daftykins> it's a bit rude that Lenovo have a little security tape thing on the hard disk screw inside that laptop
[13:17] <shauno> I know it's out of place, but a quick windows question .. any idea how to see what's accessing the disk?
[13:18] <zmoylan-pi> it's so they can tell if it was repaired by a professional or an amateur.  the amateur will find a way to not disturb it whereas the professional will say sod that and rip it off :-)
[13:20] <daftykins> shauno: task manager with added columns of IO
[13:21] <shauno> ooh, these I've never spotted.  that should help :)
[13:21] <daftykins> ^_^
[13:21] <shauno> my work laptop keeps crawling.  absolutely crawling.  and you can hear the disk churning away when it does.  so I'm nosey
[13:22] <daftykins> ooh-err, touching swap? er virtual memory... ;D
[13:22] <popey> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31723029
[13:23] <daftykins> ooh my not Rory
[13:28] <diddledan> rory says "canonical, which basically runs ubuntu" <-- what happened to the huge volunteer developer community?
[13:29] <popey> trolololol
[13:30] <diddledan> the meizu mx4 looks nice, with a very slim bezel <3
[13:30] <diddledan> I'm all about that bezel!
[13:31] <diddledan> that bezel!
[13:31] <diddledan> so. when's the ubuntu watch?

[13:32] <daftykins> 1st of Nevruary
[13:32] <daftykins> Neveruary 0o
[13:32] <zmoylan-pi> well you get a dogs collar and glue it to the back of your ubuntu phone.  remember watches have been getting huge in last few years :-)
[13:41] <daftykins> diddledan: what's for lunch?
[13:41] <diddledan> burger and chips when I go to the café
[13:41] <diddledan> I was just about to head out
[13:42] <daftykins> :O a whole cafe lunch, crikey
[13:42] <diddledan> take-away so I don't have to be without cpu-juice for too long
[13:42] <daftykins> hehe
[13:42] <diddledan> hey, it's my birthday, so I'm pushing the boat out :-p
[13:43] <daftykins> really?
[13:43] <diddledan> indeed
[13:43] <daftykins> happy birthday sir!
[13:43] <daftykins> what was it, 32, 33?
[13:43] <diddledan> I'm now 32 (binary)
[13:44] <zmoylan-pi> only a few years away from mid life crisis
[13:44] <daftykins> ah yesh
[13:44] <shauno> diddledan: you're now over 1 billion seconds old.  well done.
[13:44]  * daftykins blows a party thingy at diddledan 
[13:44] <diddledan> yeah, don't remind me - someone put a picture on facebook of the spice girls stating that it was 18 years ago
[13:44] <daftykins> O_O
[13:45] <shauno> (isnt' that a bit nuts.  1 million seconds is ~11 days.  1 billion seconds is ~1 diddledan.)
[13:45] <daftykins> :D
[13:45] <diddledan> someone replied saying they showed the picture to their 18year old daughter who asked "who are they?"
[13:45] <daftykins> that's one lucky kid.
[13:46] <diddledan> imagine the oodles of people alive now who don't know who blobby is!?!
[13:46] <zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_in_the_United_Kingdom
[13:46] <zmoylan-pi> the year cds went on sale in uk
[13:48] <diddledan> tony blair became an mp in 83
[13:48] <zmoylan-pi> wasn't all good then
[13:48] <diddledan> clive sinclair received his knighthood in 83
[13:48] <zmoylan-pi> first episode of blackadder \o/
[13:48] <diddledan> \o/
[13:49] <shauno> /o\
[13:49] <zmoylan-pi> first episode of blockbusters.  can i have a p please bob
[13:50] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi, down the hall on the right
[13:50] <diddledan> yey, the first cruise missiles at greenham
[13:53] <zmoylan-pi> best games of 1983.  spy hunter... atic atac... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREp_YSXxIE
[13:53] <diddledan> bbiab, food!
[13:57] <daftykins> im' reading about this Dennis Nilsen chap 0o
[13:57] <foobarry> mate of mine's dad was on who caught him
[13:57] <foobarry> one*
[14:01] <daftykins> oh wow
[14:01] <daftykins> any ideas how they did it 0o
[14:01] <daftykins> maybe i should just try and find that part
[14:15] <daftykins> cor, it's way too dark reading about that
[14:15] <daftykins> can't imagine having to deal with that for work O_O
[14:18] <popey> http://liliputing.com/2015/03/zotac-introduces-steam-machine-sn970-gaming-pc.html
[14:26] <diddledan> wow, that's .. I'm not sure how to describe it, daftykins
[14:26] <diddledan> fun eating while reading that
[14:27] <diddledan> popey, november is ages away
[14:28] <diddledan> valve missed the obvious branding tho, steam machine would have been better as "steam engine"
[14:29] <shauno> they already have an engine though, Source
[14:30] <davmor2> diddledan: Locomotive
[14:30] <diddledan> what's the difference between "windows 8.1" and "windows 8.1 with bing"?
[14:31] <shauno> "with bing", I'd imagine :)
[14:32] <zmoylan-pi> internet explorer is locked to bing seemingly.  a cheap windows licence for manufacturers to stop chromebooks i think was the idea.  didn't sell well
[14:32] <foobarry> ugh
[14:34] <zmoylan-pi> first thing you do is download firefox or chrome depending on your religion and you're grand :-)
[14:34] <diddledan> it's a systembuilder thing - the license to builders is 0 based on the caveat that the oem can't also change the ie search engine to default google by signing a deal where google pay for that privilege
[14:35] <diddledan> you can change the search engine yourself so in a way it's no different to non-oem-bundled editions of windows
[14:36] <diddledan> ref: http://www.howtogeek.com/195934/what-exactly-is-windows-8.1-with-bing-do-i-have-to-use-bing/
[14:39] <diddledan> oh, if anyone does ssl-on-a-server I'd like to recommend sslmate
[14:39] <diddledan> it's a commandline automation of ssl certificate request and download from a ca
[14:40] <diddledan> they also have a function in the cli app that will dump out configuratino for standard web servers
[14:40] <diddledan> copy+paste is so much better than manually typing everything
[14:41] <diddledan> and the config they dump follows best-practice in terms of cipher order and the like
[14:45] <daftykins> mmm fresh croissant from pasty presto around the corner :D
[14:49] <diddledan> yummy
[14:49] <diddledan> that's one thing the french do well
[14:49] <diddledan> bread + cakes
[14:49] <diddledan> that's two things the french do well
[14:50] <daftykins> :D
[14:54] <diddledan> http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/4/8146729/british-government-approves-the-first-spaceport-in-europe
[14:56] <zmoylan-pi> all too far north
[14:57] <daftykins> yes, you are ;)
[14:58] <diddledan> newquay is north?
[14:58] <zmoylan-pi> north of the equator, yes
[14:58] <diddledan> aah
[14:58] <diddledan> well I suppose "lots of planets have a north" (according to 9)
[14:59] <zmoylan-pi> http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu/projects/vss/docs/navigation/2-why-launch-from-equator.html
[15:01] <diddledan> aah, you're talking about too far north for optimum launching. I assumed you were referring to travel time to get there
[15:01] <zmoylan-pi> well that too, and the language barrier :-P
[15:01] <diddledan> still, uk-to-aus in 2 hours sounds fun
[15:02] <diddledan> of course that requires aus to build one, too
[15:02] <zmoylan-pi> with an extra hour for security and waiting for your bag to be dug out of the ground after it broke lose
[15:07] <foobarry> mmm jelly snakes
[15:33] <shauno> woot, moar toys  *hugs postman*
[15:36] <diddledan> ooh
[15:36] <diddledan> whatcha bought
[15:37] <shauno> all the rams
[15:37] <shauno> more ram than I could ever use :)
[15:38] <shauno> well, until I figure out bank switching
[15:42] <shauno> I also found out what's hogging all the disk on my windows machine.  "mcafee process validation service" :(
[15:46] <daftykins> :/
[15:47] <daftykins> i'd be tempted to whip it off and reinstall, it could've gone funky from regular patching
[15:47] <daftykins> i've seen that happen at times
[15:56] <diddledan> shauno, what is your rams for?
[15:56] <shauno> you fill it with numbers.  and then when you ask nicely, they come back out
[15:56] <diddledan> err
[15:56] <diddledan> which machine?
[15:56] <diddledan> o_O
[15:57] <shauno> oh.  I'm having fun sticking stuff to a z80 to see what happens
[15:57] <diddledan> y'eejit :-p
[15:57] <shauno> it's not so much 'a machine' at the moment
[15:57] <diddledan> z80 with 32GB of rams sounds... interesting
[15:57] <bashrc> overclocked
[15:57] <shauno> heh.  I got a whole megabit of ram
[15:58] <shauno> which is more than it can address, but it seems easier than buying small chips these days
[15:58] <diddledan> it's probably easier to emulate
[15:59] <shauno> where's the fun in that?
[15:59] <diddledan> true, you can't show off an emulator and say "look at my frankenstein's monster!"
[16:00] <diddledan> hint, apparently girls don't want to hear that on a first date
[16:02] <daftykins> hrmm what was the old syntax, "sudo route add -net 10.0.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 dev eth0" sound about right?
[16:03] <diddledan> yeah that looks close
[16:03] <diddledan> maybe without -net
[16:03] <diddledan> or maybe net without the dash
[16:04] <diddledan> I only really need(ed) the default route
[16:04] <diddledan> only ever(
[16:04] <diddledan> **
[16:05] <diddledan> which is `route add default via 192.168.x.y` or sometimes `route add default gw 192.168.x.y`
[16:05] <diddledan> I didn't work out why one was used in some places and the other in others
[16:06] <daftykins> mmm there's some guy in #ubuntu with multiple subnets today
[16:06] <daftykins> it's all a bit odd :P
[16:06] <diddledan> he's a weirdo
[16:07] <daftykins> just someone trying to do things with something they've no experience of i think
[16:07] <daftykins> so possibly all of us XD
[16:08] <diddledan> I still say he's a weirdo
[16:08] <daftykins> then you're a big meanie
[16:08] <diddledan> hey, I resemble that remark!
[16:09] <daftykins> XD
[16:09] <diddledan> no, wait, I meant "resent"!
[16:09] <shauno> which one?  big, meanie, or weirdo?
[16:10] <diddledan> which one do I resemble or which one do I resent?
[16:10] <shauno> yes
[16:12] <diddledan> in that case then, all three :-p
[16:12] <daftykins> organising a curry with you two would be unpossible
[16:15] <shauno> well, I can see logistical issues.  we're all on different islands.
[16:16] <daftykins> :)
[16:16] <daftykins> we should all agree to have a curry, then swap who phones whos for the order
[16:16] <daftykins> then leave a UUID for the collection name
[16:17] <ali1234> dining cryptographers?
[16:17] <daftykins> :D
[16:17] <daftykins> this little Lenovo is quite lovely then, but oh my word i can't stand using systems without an SSD, now
[16:20] <diddledan> daftykins, I've got a difference in speed of my fastest ssd at 100MB/s to my slowest HDD at 1MB/s in the SAME SYSTEM!
[16:20] <daftykins> that's a slow SSD and a very slow HDD :>
[16:20] <daftykins> i take it that was made up?
[16:20] <diddledan> yeah, the ssd was a conservative estimate
[16:21] <diddledan> this is for extracting a zip to and from the same drive as a contrived test
[16:21] <daftykins> ooh-err
[16:22] <diddledan> a zip of linux-like file collection - i.e. a slew of loads of really tiny files and some big files
[16:23] <diddledan> I think it was a zip of drush (the drupal shell) which contained a load of php files and php itself with all it's supporting libraries
[16:24] <diddledan> 6Gb/s is max of about 500MB/s?
[16:24] <daftykins> yip
[16:24] <daftykins> but now there are lovely M.2 SSDs with PCI-E 2x connections, or higher
[16:25] <diddledan> mmmmm, they sound tasty
[16:27] <directhex> they're also tiny
[16:27] <directhex> no 1T m.2 drives on the market
[16:28] <daftykins> that's alright, there seems to be talk of upcoming boards having 2 or 3 slots O_O
[16:28] <diddledan> http://go.bwlh.at/1w3oMCz
[16:29] <daftykins> hah
[16:31] <diddledan> then of course for speed-demons: http://go.bwlh.at/1w3ptLX
[16:32] <daftykins> those are pretty ancient now though, and sandforce based
[16:32] <daftykins> super unreliable controllers
[16:33] <diddledan> if you happen to have a hole burning in your wallet: http://go.bwlh.at/1w3pXBV
[16:36] <intrbiz> I have one of these, allows for 4xmsata - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lycom-PE-125-AHCI-6Gbps-RAID-4x-mSATA-Low-Profile-PCIe-2-0-Host-Adapter-/121431347857?pt=UK_Computing_ComputerComponents_InterfaceCards&hash=item1c45df5291
[16:37] <daftykins> mSATA is old hat now ;)
[16:38] <intrbiz> sure, but still lots of it around and I like the compat with sata controllers
[16:38] <diddledan> does booting off a pcie work via the option-rom capability of bios?
[16:38] <diddledan> e.g. like the way old scsi cards used to work
[16:38] <directhex> the UEFI equivalent.
[16:39] <diddledan> I don't got uefi
[16:39] <daftykins> it only crops up on the modern platforms
[16:39] <daftykins> if you got a card you'd likely be unable to boot from it
[16:39] <directhex> actually the answer is "no"
[16:39] <directhex> older cards present to the firmware as AHCI devices
[16:39] <intrbiz> directhex: probably depends on the PCIe card in question, server boots off spinning rust
[16:39] <directhex> so boot as such
[16:39] <diddledan> I got one of those weird frankensteins that gigabyte put together that's a bios with a uefi shim that the bios loads
[16:40] <directhex> newer devices present as NVMe, so require support for that
[16:40] <directhex> i expect there'll never be NVMe support in BIOS compatibility layers
[16:40] <daftykins> probably no great loss
[16:40] <diddledan> this isn't bios compatibility - it is a true bios with efi compatibility
[16:40] <directhex> yeah, i know
[16:40] <directhex> my dad has one
[16:40] <diddledan> it's evil!
[16:40] <directhex> bricked his system when windows did a suspend
[16:41] <daftykins> XD
[16:41] <directhex> for his model, there was a beta "bios update" available which replaced it with real uefi
[16:41] <diddledan> I wish I had waited until they version bumped the board to include efi
[16:41] <daftykins> i'm glad i've skipped all that experimental period :>
[16:42] <diddledan> I've got a GA-990FXA-UD5 (ver 1.0) - they released a successor, the version 3.0, which has uefi natively
[16:42] <directhex> msi did their experimental period last decade
[16:42] <directhex> "clickbios" boards from msi were uefi with mandatory bios compatibility years before anyone other than apple was doing uefi on x86
[16:44] <diddledan> yeah I bricked one of those
[16:44] <directhex> gigabyte invested a lot of time/money into adding clicky GUI stuff into their BIOS instead, hence "hybrid EFI" compatibility layer on top of BIOS
[16:48] <daftykins> lets give TV licensing another go
[17:21] <zmoylan-pi> if you get rid of the licence fee for the bbc you'd end up with american tv 24x7
[17:22] <daftykins> managed to tell them i don't need one \o/
[17:22] <daftykins> i don't watch any of it so... :D
[17:22] <shauno> it sounds like they're trying to go the same way as ireland wants to - a universal fee
[17:23] <Myrtti> Finland moved into a TV tax everyone needs to pay
[17:24] <zmoylan-pi> they're moving to everyone pays in ireland.  the blind aren't exempt last i heard which has them a little miffed
[17:24] <daftykins> XD
[17:25] <Myrtti> well it used to be tv licence but moved into "FBC tax" which more obviously funds the radio too.
[17:25] <daftykins> i did hear they tax all forms of internet connection above a given speed in either Denmark or the Netherlands
[17:25] <zmoylan-pi> they're trying that angle i think in ireland but irish radio is given buttons of the fee
[17:26] <zmoylan-pi> mind in dublin they switched off the audio cues on pedestrian crossings as sighted people complained that it confused them.  they didn't tell anyone and switched them all off in one weekend which was fun for blind pedestrians on the monday
[17:26] <Myrtti> I value the FBC radio more than their tv
[17:27] <shauno> I get more out of bbc radio than TV too.  and their website
[17:27]  * zmoylan-pi is fan of irish radio and gets a fair few podcasts from them
[17:27] <daftykins> does the 'pod' bit come from 'ipod' ? 0o
[17:27] <shauno> but the odd position in ireland is that I get much more out of the bbc than rte.  while makes the tv licence just feel silly
[17:28] <shauno> *which
[17:28] <zmoylan-pi> i think the pod in podcast was originally for ipods but now most people i know that use podcasts _don't_ use iphones or ipods
[17:29] <bashrc> I don't pay much attention to the beeb these days. Very occasionally I might be drawn to some news article on their web site, but that's about it
[17:29] <Myrtti> I love channel 4 podcasts
[17:29] <zmoylan-pi> the bbc world service is a far better potential weapon against extremists in afghanistan/pakistan than any troops ever sent if used right
[17:29] <shauno> radio4 is a bedtime ritual for me
[17:30] <shauno> except when they put cricket on instead of closing.  then I get woke up by the automated dude that tells me they don't have the rights to broadcast it online
[17:30] <zmoylan-pi> better than having to listen to cricket :-)
[17:31] <shauno> they should just cut to the worldservice like they usually do at close.  instead of 4 hours of this guy telling me why they didn't
[17:32] <daftykins> :(
[17:33] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[17:33] <shauno> O di like the world service too.  but the version they have online has a strong african theme  (I believe they broadcast different schedules around the world, and only stream one)
[17:34] <shauno> so, eg, I know who won the africa cup of nations this year.  and why it was moved to equatorial guinea  lol
[17:34] <shauno> wow.  my typing is fantastic today.
[17:35] <zmoylan-pi> you can fly the irish tri colour upside down and support ivory coast \o/
[17:36] <bigcalm> At the office and have a shiny new Dell XPS 8700. Of course it's come with win 8.1 and I need to scrub it off. Trying to get Ubuntu 14.04 to install but it's not seeing the HDD. Any thoughts?
[17:36] <shauno> the irish flag upsdie down is still the irish flag :)  you need to staple the wrong side to the mast to flip it
[17:36] <bigcalm> The HDD is showing up in gparted, but not in the installer
[17:41] <bigcalm> directhex: have you been able to dual boot a win 8.1 machine that's using secure boot and uefi?
[17:41] <directhex> sure.
[17:42] <diddledan> daily fail today leads with the story of how jihadi john is actually an evil man because he spent 20 years on benefits
[17:42] <diddledan> https://twitter.com/kevinbridges86/status/573037483329527808/photo/1
[17:42] <diddledan> anywho, I'm off for a bit
[17:42] <diddledan> tata
[17:44] <bigcalm> directhex: how? :D
[17:44] <directhex> bigcalm: same way as without secure boot, in the case of ubuntu (which uses a signed bootloader)
[17:46] <bigcalm> directhex: so leave it all using secure boot and uefi, boot from a USB stick with Ubuntu 14.04.2 on it and let it work magic?
[17:46] <directhex> yeah.
[17:47] <bigcalm> Looking in gparted at the harddrive, there are multiple existing partitions because it's Dell. gparted even complained that GPT was in the wrong place and offered to fix it for me - I ignored it
[17:47] <bigcalm> Okay, I'll try again
[17:50] <directhex> the partition thing is likely a recovery partition thing being insane
[17:50] <bigcalm> Yes
[17:50]  * bigcalm drums his fingers
[17:51] <bigcalm> If leave the system using secure boot, grub appears when the USB stick is plugged in. But selecting any option results in a black screen and nothing else. This is the case for all HDMI and DVI ports.
[17:51] <bigcalm> Disabling secure boot results in getting further
[17:52] <bigcalm> As in, the normal desktop system loads as expected
[17:52] <bigcalm> But the HDD is not detected by the installer
[17:53] <directhex> hmmmmmmmmm
[17:53] <directhex> this doesn't sound like secure boot behaviour... how recent is it?
[17:53] <directhex> old GPU?
[17:54] <bigcalm> It's brand new from Dell. Arrived today
[17:55] <bigcalm> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-8700/pd?oc=cdx8727&model_id=xps-8700
[17:56] <directhex> firmware update available?
[17:57] <directhex> a10 is current
[17:57] <bigcalm> I've not booted into Windows to find out :)
[18:00] <bigcalm> It's using A09
[18:00] <bigcalm> I'll go through the Windows set-up and see about getting a firmware update
[18:01] <daftykins> i'd leave off 14.04.2 since it uses the utopic HWE
[18:02] <popey> that makes no sense.
[18:02] <popey> on a brand new machine, it makes way more sense to have a later kernel
[18:02] <directhex> daftykins: you mean a modern kernel? that's a positive, not a negative, for HW support
[18:02] <popey> especially dell stuff
[18:03] <popey> where they ship consumer devices with bleeding edge hardware
[18:04] <daftykins> i guess so, but does mean that when utopic dies you have to keep faffing with the upgrades
[18:04] <bigcalm> Should I try using 14.10 then?
[18:04] <daftykins> well they're saying ignore me, so up to you :D
[18:06] <popey> bigcalm: no, 14.04 imo
[18:06] <bigcalm> Good. I want LTS on work machines
[18:06] <daftykins> i've just seen too many crying in #ubuntu when HWEs die
[18:06] <popey> HWEs don't "die"
[18:07] <daftykins> you know what i mean
[18:07] <popey> no, I flat out don't
[18:07] <daftykins> or if not, it should be pretty obvious
[18:07] <daftykins> mmm you've used those words before
[18:07] <popey> i don't know what you're talking about
[18:07] <daftykins> when the release the HWE comes from falls out of support
[18:08] <daftykins> e.g. when raring died so the 3.15 kernel and xorg on precise became EOL
[18:08] <daftykins> er, hmm no 3.5
[18:09] <daftykins> clear as mud? :D
[18:10] <popey> I don't see the issue, you update to the next HWE stack
[18:10] <popey> and get new shiny
[18:10] <daftykins> yeah but all the tools to do so are a mess quite frankly
[18:10] <popey> never had a problem with it personally
[18:11] <daftykins> last time it happened there was a mix of output for people coming into #ubuntu - the verbose hwe-support-status command which i forget right now would say they were EOL but not tell them what to do to resolve it
[18:12] <daftykins> bigcalm: amusingly i was just doing what you're doing, albeit with a Lenovo
[21:11] <diddledan> evening
[21:17] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[23:35] <diddledan> quiet in here tonight
[23:41] <Myrtti> don't yinx it
[23:50]  * m0nkey_ bangs his pots and pans
[23:50] <m0nkey_> LOUD ENOUGH FOR YOU?! :-P