[00:06] wow, this page is really bad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members [00:16] right, so january 9th 2013 is the next uuk irc meeting for procedural stuffs - teeny bit overdue methinks [00:16] I found that tidbit here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [02:22] czajkowski, your nick reverted! [02:35] that's scary, czajkowski is claiming to be skynet [02:35] i.e. ~cypher@skynet.skynet.ie [04:19] anyone awake yet? === m0nkey_ is now known as m0nkey_|away [04:47] hey [04:47] im just back;p [04:48] allo [04:48] whats up [04:48] ;] [04:55] not much - fixing some things in long-forgotten projects on launchpad - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme [04:58] a new scsi [04:58] csi:cyber [04:58] hm [04:59] you mustve seen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31711446 [04:59] coo pic eh [05:09] yeah, saw that on facebook earlier [05:12] thanks for reminding me about csi:cyber - I've just checked and my downloader has already god it [05:12] got* [05:12] * diddledan watching now [05:15] let me know whether its worth watching [05:15] and il grab it:) [05:15] it's Dawson from Dawson's creek [05:15] he's in it?!? [05:16] unless I've got the wrong face [05:18] is patricia arquette, too [05:19] the guy I think is dawson is james van der beek [05:19] I know the name and I know the face but I still can't say for certain it's dawson [05:19] hm [05:19] yea james van der beek is him [05:19] well done me! \o/ [05:30] time for sunny in philly [05:30] ho watch it so i know if it's good;p [06:08] diddledan ?:) [06:09] it was rather fast and disjointed [06:10] they managed to solve a case in what seemed like half a day [06:12] and they guessed a 20 digit numeric password in a couple of seconds when confronted with tattoos on four separate men with the numbers divided into dates in the tattoos === zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi [07:36] is i worth watching? [07:36] *it [07:36] diddledan [07:37] depends if you're expecting something other than a standard police procedural that eschews any actual thinking [08:11] morning all [08:14] allo === TREllis_ is now known as TREllis === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [09:27] diddledan: skynet is all knwowing :) [09:28] czajkowski: your back as cz \o/ [09:28] Morning all [09:28] bigcalm: how was the oddfellows [09:29] davmor2: aye for the time being :) [09:30] czajkowski: whens the date? [09:32] not decided yet. [09:32] need to narrow down country :) [09:33] may I suggest uzbekistan [09:33] good suggestion [09:34] any istan would suffice tho [09:35] Good morning peeps :) [09:35] davmor2: quieter - we got to have conversations without shouting [09:48] Good morning all; happy World Book Day! :-D [09:50] who needs books when we have 1) IRC, 2) wikipedia [09:50] 3) TEH GOOGLES [09:51] * davmor2 grabs his heaviest book covers it with happy minion paper ← 1 happy book [09:53] because irc, wikipedia and google are susceptible to rewriting history. the printed word is not perfect but is hard to change when previous copies persist [09:53] And I can't throw IRC at someone. [09:55] JamesTait: you could throw an IRC *server* at someone [09:56] one with redundant power supplies for more... impact [09:56] MartijnVdS, I could, but then I'd be mourning the loss of the hardware. Books might crease a little bit, but they still work. [09:56] and the battery life of books is excellent [09:56] JamesTait: also, paper cuts :) [09:57] and it's far easier to loan a physical book to someone than an ebook [09:57] MartijnVdS, I've sliced my hands open on the insides of enough servers over the years. [09:58] I hate servers for the slicing of hands [09:58] they're evil! [09:58] JamesTait: yeah, same. stupid metal! [09:58] thing is you don't notice when you do it - it's when you've stopped doing it that the pain begins [09:58] and blood [10:00] It's quite often the next morning in the shower, or later the same day when I'm washing the dishes, that I find myself thinking "Oh, that's sore - I wonder what I did that on." [10:02] that's what you get for using bleeding-edge hardware [10:03] ba dum tsh [10:03] don't forget your tetanus shots [10:03] in lieu of tipping your waitress... [10:04] zmoylan-pi: .. just the tip? [10:05] did you not see reservoir dogs?! [10:05] ah yes [10:05] Americans and their weird habits [10:07] haha, world book day! [10:07] Sophie, Sam and Clare all went to school dressed up today [10:08] as books? [10:09] but all the second hand book shops in my town are gone... [10:12] are ubuntu phones available to buy right now? [10:12] SuperMatt: only via flash sales [10:12] MartijnVdS: as characters from books [10:12] thanks popey [10:13] popey: did you see? The Burger King at Schiphol runs Ubuntu on its video/ad screens :) [10:13] haha, no. [10:13] popey: I posted a picture to g+ [10:13] will look [10:14] if you want to avoid bsod or weird windows error/update messages it seems like a safe bet [10:14] morning boys and girls. [10:14] zmoylan-pi: yeah, purple grub screens are WAY nicer ;) [10:14] I'd really like to know when the next flash sale is happening [10:15] purple is a calming colour :-) [10:47] /join #syncthing [10:48] willdo [10:49] you shouldn't listen to 46118, they're just bitter since 46117 left === Guest46118 is now known as NET||abuse [10:52] davmor2: where were you last night? [10:56] bigcalm: meeting [10:57] lies, he was knitting [10:57] Heh [10:57] he was knitting in a meeting [10:57] so at least it was productive :-) [10:57] It's March, where's my Ubuntu Phone? [10:57] It's also Chinese new year [10:57] so "not manufactured yet" is probably accurate [11:03] so your shipped phone will be super fresh :-) [11:04] zmoylan-pi: don't say super and a word that begins with F after people will read it as super fish :D [11:04] hmmm super fish.... tomorrow is friday... cod and chips... [11:05] mmmmm fish [11:05] i had fish last night, just to mix things up a bit [11:05] the sting of vinegar in your nostrils... [11:06] tartare [11:22] so need my phone to arrive current one decides to reboot itself for no reason lately [11:22] dropping phones tend to do that [11:23] nonsense, i've dropped my nokia dumbphone 100s of times and have only managed to damage the ground :-P [11:29] to be fair to foobarry, your nokia dumbphone is completely devoid of functionality to begin with so you'd not notice if it didn't work [11:29] :-p [11:30] brick dropped onto brick [11:30] email, irc, ebooks, games, web, mp3s, radio. [11:30] quand la pierre tombe sur l'oeuf, pauvre oeuf. quand l'oeuf tombe sur la pierre, pauvre oeuf [11:31] half past eleven [11:31] gort, klatu barada niktu [11:31] march 5th [11:32] have we finished being random yet? [11:32] who's being ranodm [11:33] * zmoylan-pi shakes magic 8-ball. try again later [11:33] you with your oofs and zmoylan-pi with his gordon nikita [11:34] it was a relevant proverb [11:34] no, it was random jibberish :-p [11:34] whent he phone falls on the stone, poor phone. when the stone falls on the phone, poor phone [11:35] when it's a nokia, look out planet :-) [11:35] I thought oeufs were eggs [11:35] nope, definitely phones [11:54] I was listening to a podcast in the last few weeks. probably a jupiterbroadcastingone,, and there was mention of perhaps syncthing, not always reliably syncing all the files in a share [11:54] does anyone remember anything on the topic? [11:55] just wondering how reliable my syncthing setup is going to be longterm [11:55] unless i was mistaken and it was another tool being mentioned? maybe it was actually btsync that had the issue? [11:58] yeah, i heard that too [11:58] i haven't seen that problem with syncthing but i dont sync massive files with it [12:03] No issues here either, although I sync a fairly small amount compared to others so far [12:03] i'm syncing PIctures and Documents folder right now. [12:03] But I sync to and from my phone ( pics and music ) and pics / calibre from my server to pc's / laptops [12:04] so i'm up at about 15GB of stuff between those two [12:04] i'll be doing a one way backup of my dev folder going back 2 years, that'll be about 40/45GB [12:05] ooh, there maybe vm images in that folder, i might not want to do that. [12:05] Can use .stignore [12:05] To ignore the vms [12:05] wonder if there's a nice way to list out recursively the files in a directory tree and sort by largest [12:05] I'm going to start syncing my dads PC back to mine soon [12:06] find . -printf '%s %p\n'|sort -nr|head [12:07] that show'd up a couple of mysql dumps, ibd files and graylog_centos65_vagrant.box [12:07] hah [12:08] so there's definately a few big files to work through ignoreing [12:09] just found a few >1GB files in my DOcuments folder which i'm already syncing [12:09] a 2.5GB, a 1.5GB and a 1.2G [12:10] couple of large files, few hundred MB files of rpm's and tar.gz's,, informix drivers ,, hahah [12:11] I sync specific directories rather than everything :) [12:11] ahh, [12:12] i've gone for the "I need a backup of my old laptop" approach, [12:12] Created new ones for my mobile and made new ones for other areas and sorted the rest out and moved them into said directories [12:12] So having a tidy up at the same time [12:12] only went as fine grained as /home/me/Documents, /home/me/Pictures, /home/me/.ssh [12:13] wonder what else i should grab. [12:13] I've done /home/andy/Mobile/{music,pics} and /home/andy/Calibre Library etc [12:13] Hadn't thought about .ssh directory though, quite like that idea [12:14] yeh, i figure it's a good move to keep that sync'd between machines [12:14] turns out though i can't hit the server (nat forwarded using a no-ip.org dns address)from the office network, port 22000 seems to be blocked [12:14] had issues with irc too [12:15] wondering if i'll have to ssh tunnel and override hosts file. [12:15] oh, how do i hcange the port on the connection though [12:15] ahh, you can just to ip:port === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [12:25] I'd advise starting small though NET||abuse :) Just in case you get something wrong [12:26] hnmm, local forwarding doesn't seem to want to work for me [12:26] is it udp by anycchnace. [12:27] ok, running for lunch. [12:27] brb === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:06] Wow http://awesomejelly.com/mans-acoustic-version-acdcs-thunderstruck-will-blow-mind/ [13:13] nicely done. but I fear I can't hear thunderstuck without mentioning flaming bagpipes anymore; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e5J116IM6M === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:34] I prefer flaming galahs [13:34] ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galah#Cultural_references [13:35] wow, crocodile dundee is 75! [13:37] with the skin tone of 150 :-) [14:03] diddledan: so, this is what I say to your emulation :) http://i.imgur.com/4ssxl3g.jpg [14:05] z80 chips? [14:05] yummy, eh? [14:06] * zmoylan-pi hopes fuzixos gets to be usable... https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX [14:09] shauno: this is still my favourite version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk [14:10] I call shenanigans [14:18] diddledan: "Hello, Shenanigan's?" [14:18] :-) [14:18] sounds like a good name for a restaurant [14:18] it does! [14:19] or a gaybar [14:19] or a joke shop [14:19] lol [14:24] irish bar [14:26] POTATO! [14:28] hi, could anyone tell me what date 10.04 LTS support ends? is it exactly 5 years from the original release date? or end of April? or something else? [14:29] server or desktop? [14:29] !eol [14:29] End-Of-Life is the time when security updates and support for an Ubuntu release stop, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases for more information. Looking to upgrade from an EOL release? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades [14:29] its roughly 5 years. often it's a few weeks later than the release [14:30] ok thanks [14:31] it's usually a good idea to beat them to it though, as they shuffle it off the main mirrors which just adds more complications (not big ones, but still) [14:31] given that 10.04 LTS was released 29th April 2010, does that mean I can rely on it being no sooner than 29th April 2015? [14:31] I agree we don't want to wait that long [14:31] I'm just getting asked the question by clients and want to be accurate in my reply [14:54] moo [14:54] sorry, I got that wrong, it should be "m00" [14:57] I've got good launchpad karma today [14:57] I'm on 273 [14:58] \o/ [14:58] almost as good as the 10 million i had back in 2006 :) [14:58] lol [14:59] wish I'd got a screenshot of it [14:59] I'm not sure I'll ever be half as awesome as you, popey [14:59] You know it. [15:01] write a script to close some obsolete bug tasks or something [15:05] odd question, but what did you do before ubuntu, popey ? [15:05] SAP [15:05] eep [15:05] hm. that explains a lot ;) [15:08] haha [15:08] 10 years I did SAP [15:08] maybe more [15:08] so you weren't actually normal, you just traded one madness for another [15:09] an odd move though. most people transition from SAP to alcoholism [15:09] so I guess you won :) [15:10] from SAP to "aww, poor sap" [15:11] I just followed jdub over because the guy he left running garnome was a bit odd [15:11] so most the names I ever recognised were from debian [15:11] garnome? [15:11] it was a build system for gnome2 [15:12] oh that thing, I think I remember :) [15:12] way back [15:12] there was jhbuild that built from cvs, garnome that built from released tarballs, and then debian packages that were archiac because debian was stuck in a strange dry spell [15:12] Debian potato famine ;) [15:13] yeah. they kinda forgot how to release for a while [15:13] lol [15:13] (actually it was woody->sarge) [15:13] (though potato->woody was a long wait too) [15:13] that sounds about right, because potato I had on CDs, so I would have still been in the UK [15:15] (The scary old days when it was quicker to order CDs from thelinuxemporium than to download them) [15:15] * diddledan sniggers cos MartijnVdS said woody. many times. [15:15] shauno, I remember those times [15:15] shauno, I bought loads off there for a while [15:16] shauno: I made do with "minimal" boot floppies and installed from the mirror :) [15:16] mandrake, redhat 7, debian, I'm sure others [15:16] (yay working for an ISP) [15:16] I think I just got potato from there. redhat I got from a book (?) [15:17] I started waay back on slackware, with kernel 2.0.30 [15:18] I had slack 3.3. on floppies. lots and lots of floppies. dark times. [15:18] I think I had 3.3 as well [15:19] I have no idea why so many floppies, because I only had enough drive space to install the 'A' ones [15:19] 3.3 and 3.4 were released with 2.0.30 [15:19] I only remember this because it was the only distro I could find that'd let me use two floppies drives instead of one and a ramdisk [15:19] I remember breaking the system by installing a new libc (libc5 -> libc6 transition? with new gcc and everything) [15:19] (for installation, that is) [15:21] most would copy the installer into a ramdisk so you could eject the first disk. my 386 had 3meg of ram, so this was a no-go [15:23] important lesson learnt - if you ever find yourself in this situation, don't be sentimental, just bin the machine [15:26] run it as a VM ;) [15:26] (I installed warty in a VM a few months ago.. wow that we put up with stuff like that! :P) [15:28] lol, it wasn't that bad [15:28] shauno: scrolling text boot screens [15:29] (I remember the Mataro "UDS" (it wasn't called that) where Paul Sladen started to write a seamless boot thing) [15:29] I mean, it wasn't great, but considering that before that I had ximian gnome 1.4 & self-built gnome 2.0 on debian [15:29] and (years before pulse), a session on fixing audio [15:29] so warty was fun because they'd done all that for me [15:30] ah yes, that's also one of the reasons I switched [15:30] the other one was *actual releases* [15:31] I was just easy to impress at that point. not having to build evolution was ftw [15:32] or firefox :/ [15:32] building firefox is a sure-fire way to destroy rose-tinted specs [15:32] and a new kernel every week [15:33] see, the kernel didn't bother me. or the stupid nvidia drivers (once I figured out the installer took --options to automate it) [15:33] but ff is a beast [15:34] shauno: a coworker of mine switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu when he had to re-build OpenOffice for the 3rd time in 1 week because of some missing compile option :) [15:34] i was a gentoo user before ubuntu as well [15:34] dont think i ever touched gentoo [15:34] the compiling never bothered me [15:34] friend of mine used it on servers [15:34] sack him [15:35] * shauno looks at diddledan [15:35] because it supported multiple libraries installed in parallel by default or something [15:35] I spent a long time concerned that I was due a slackware phase, but I'm relatively convinced now that I'm far too lazy for that to ever happen [15:35] and it takes a week to deploy a server [15:35] I've never touched gentoo either. pretty much all I ever knew of it was the jokes about ricers [15:35] the biggest problem with gentoo was always that they just throw the newest version of everything in the repo without testing if it actually works [15:35] same with arch [15:35] if arch was a real thing [15:35] I think they view that as a feature, though [15:35] all I know of arch is that they seem to have better rpi documentation than rpi do :) [15:36] yeah, arch is a wiki not a distro ;) [15:36] arch has better documentation than ubuntu [15:36] I'm farily convinced that at point in time only one linux distro may have good documentation. Some limit imposed by the universe [15:36] and it's currently arch [15:37] yeah, their wiki is what the ubuntu wiki used to be [15:38] ubuntu's documenation always bothers me. particularly the server guide. it always feels like someone just replaced the version numbers from the last LTS. and the LTS before it .. [15:38] yeah, docteam is moribund imo [15:39] it's quite annoying, because now we get people showing up in -server because they followed some 'mailservers for people who can't spell mailserver' blog post (or worse, youtube video!) and can't quite get it working [15:40] Digital Ocean and Linode have called how to's and they pay people to write them [15:40] Maybe an incentive for the Ubuntu one :) [15:40] If they're documenting the same thing why duplicate the effort? [15:41] the lack of quality ubuntu documentation appear to be intentional [15:41] the page about kernel compilation is a great example [15:41] 2/3rds of it is devoted to "why you shouldn't recompile your own kernel" [15:41] nah, it's written by developers [15:41] or opinionated doc writers :) [15:41] and the rest is "just do it the same way as debian!" [15:42] I'm surprised the server guide doesn't just have banner-ads for Ubuntu Advantage [15:43] and I mean that in a "it probably should" way [15:43] BigRedS, because it would feel 'safer' if it was hosted on the official ubuntu server guide ? [15:45] although I do fear if they actually tried to update the docs, the mailserver guide would start with "deploy openstack onto your maas cluster. then launch a couple of postfix charms with juju .." [15:46] shauno, aye they don't seem to cater for small one-man-bands so much anymore [15:47] I'm not actually sure they were ever trying to. they were just convenient for a while because, as MartijnVdS pointed out, they actually had releases [15:47] being able to guess when the next release was, and how long this release is supported for, was the main reason I had ubuntu on VMs [15:48] of course this does raise the question. wth am I not in #ubuntu-server?! [15:48] *fixed [15:49] at least in one point the atmosphere there was downright toxic, and the mission of the channel was unclear - is it for developers of Ubuntu Server, or for user support. [15:49] That's why I left Myrtti [15:49] dunno if it has changed since, I've not been for at least a year [15:49] if not more [15:49] More developer stuff than anything else imo [15:49] diplo: on grammar day of all days [15:49] < diplo> That's why I left Myrtti [15:50] you lost your comma and made myrrti your partner [15:50] ex-partner [15:50] :) [15:52] I'm still in there because I can actually be helpful - most the 'regulars' are discussing openstack packaging, so it's quite easy for me to grab low-hanging fruit that they'll happily ignore [15:53] but the developer/user balance is a bit strange. it does feel like it's more developers, but I've never seen anyone suggest a more appropriate avenue for user support [15:54] I'd prefer to see it separated to be honest [15:55] it used to be. then they rolled #ubuntu-cloud in. I'm still not sure why [15:57] but then the mail list is dead too. perhaps the users simply don't exist [15:58] yeah, I'm still on the mailing list.. I was wondering if I was signed up to the wrong one :) [15:59] I mean, the main advantage of -server now *is* all the openstack-y stuff, and no-one touches that without paying consultants [15:59] it's important to have users [16:00] I want some hardware to play with that shauno, also like to play with maas and juju [16:00] lessons in buying stuff on Amazon or eBay from China. ordered http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CGVDLLQ on 20th of October, and they landed on the hallway floor this morning. [16:00] yeah. I've tried to play with it, but with only one machine. which doesn't seem to be a well-supported method :) [16:01] (redhat's rdo stuff does better on that scale. ubuntu really expects you to start openstack with at least a small handful of boxes) [16:01] No, I asked about that last year... I'd love to be able to do it on a single machine [16:02] I've asked work for some nucs or something and a microserver or a cheap 1u [16:02] redhat's answer to openstack on one machine is to add --allinone to the setup. ubuntu's is "don't do that" [16:03] seriously, I'm no fan of redhat, but "packstack --allinone" vs the instructions you'll see anywhere else is somewhat astounding [16:03] oh, I thought half the point of cloudstack was that it required a team of dedicated engineers in order to deploy it [16:03] some sort of job-security wheeze from the developers [16:04] yeah, that's exactly what I mean by everyone needing paid consultants [16:04] it's almost Oracle-esque. "the little guy" simply doesn't exist [16:16] speaking of amazon, I'm slightly miffed that an order I placed before lunch on tuesday hasn't even shipped yet :( [16:17] shoulda gone prime :-p [16:17] prime makes no difference for ireland :( [16:18] isn't the warehouse in ireland tho? [16:18] (it also doesn't affect their dispatch time. I've paid for 2-3 day shipping. 'shipping' starts once it's out the door.) [16:19] monday earliest then [16:19] their warehouses appear to be everywhere [16:20] of the parts they have sent, one is coming from GRIMBERGEN (and is now in france, so I assume that's germany-ish), another's coming from Fife. [16:20] and the part that already arrived came from luton [16:21] (luton to shannon via koln lol) [16:22] I'm just grumpy because I timed it around my days off work, so I'd be here when it's delivered. so not dispatching it the same week has thrown a spanner in the works === m0nkey_|away is now known as m0nkey_ [17:03] Amazon stuff comes from all over the place, I ordered a load of books at once, and it came in 4 deliveries! 3 different couriers I think as well [17:04] heh, yeah, I'm doing three different couriers too. ups, i-parcel & regular suface post [17:04] omg systemd is landing in vivid?! [17:04] I thought it would miss this cycle [17:05] and there are 3 classes of seller, Amazon, 3rd party, fulfilled by Amazon, and 3rd party! [17:05] Oddly, I'm just trying to get my application running on Amazon Elastic Beanstalk :-) [17:05] which one is vivid? [17:05] bashrc, the iminent one [17:05] \o/ [17:05] i.e. 15.04 [17:06] so systemd and unit 8 ? [17:06] how difficult is it to put a few desktops on a 14.10 install? on 14.04 i installed gnome and it was ppa's and some conflicts between unity and gnome, what are the options to add gnome or MATE or anything else? [17:06] s/unit/unity [17:07] has anyone tried adding alternate desktops on a default 14.10 install here? === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [17:12] nope? ok, [17:13] NET||abuse, not too bad, I use Cinamon on 14.10 [17:13] did you start with a default unity install and add cinamon? [17:13] yeah, it just worked right away I think, no messing around [17:14] I think I did follow a tutorial though, so perhaps the messing around was part of the plan, so I don't remember it :-) [17:15] :) [17:15] not sure what i'll do, considering MATE as it just seems to be winning alot lately. [17:15] faster than xfce aparently [17:16] and the new laptop (xps13 2015) is awesome and fast enough, but i'm curious to see how it behaves with an even lighter desktop like MATE [17:16] a lot of people seem to like MATE [17:16] and also compare the newer gnome3 to unity [17:17] readng around on webupd8.org, they say there are definately a few artifacts introduced to both gnome and unity with a side by side install. [17:17] NET||abuse: you should just be able to install the desktop package for that environment, gnome and unity will likely have issues but should be more harmonious in later version of ubuntu [17:18] yup, that's what i'm reading. [17:38] hi chaps [17:38] word [17:39] Do you think I should get a hidpi screen on my new laptop to run Ubuntu? [17:40] On the brink of ordering a Dell m3800 [17:40] Not sure if I should shell out for a QHD screen. I intend to use this laptop for at least 5 years so i want it to be top spec [17:43] * treb0r watches the tumbleweeds roll through the deserted streets of #ubuntu-uk === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD === m0nkey_ is now known as m0nkey_|away === m0nkey_|away is now known as m0nkey_ [19:09] * DJones sets fire to the tumbeleweed before they get to treb0r so they're not seen === m0nkey_ is now known as m0nkey_|away === m0nkey_|away is now known as m0nkey_ === m0nkey_ is now known as m0nkey_|away === m0nkey_|away is now known as m0nkey_ [20:07] buying lego on ebay is too addictive [20:07] you can buy single parts [20:08] just one more piece... [20:08] a kernel hacker and the software freedom conservency are jointly suing vmware over gpl violations [20:08]