[00:06] <diddledan> wow, this page is really bad: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Gallery/Members
[00:16] <diddledan> right, so january 9th 2013 is the next uuk irc meeting for procedural stuffs - teeny bit overdue methinks
[00:16] <diddledan> I found that tidbit here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
[02:22] <diddledan> czajkowski, your nick reverted!
[02:35] <diddledan> that's scary, czajkowski is claiming to be skynet
[02:35] <diddledan> i.e. ~cypher@skynet.skynet.ie
[04:19] <diddledan> anyone awake yet?
[04:47] <mapp> hey
[04:47] <mapp> im just back;p
[04:48] <diddledan> allo
[04:48] <mapp> whats up
[04:48] <mapp> ;]
[04:55] <diddledan> not much - fixing some things in long-forgotten projects on launchpad - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme
[04:58] <mapp> a new scsi
[04:58] <mapp> csi:cyber
[04:58] <mapp> hm
[04:59] <mapp> you mustve seen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31711446
[04:59] <mapp> coo pic eh
[05:09] <diddledan> yeah, saw that on facebook earlier
[05:12] <diddledan> thanks for reminding me about csi:cyber - I've just checked and my downloader has already god it
[05:12] <diddledan> got*
[05:12]  * diddledan watching now
[05:15] <mapp> let me know whether its worth watching
[05:15] <mapp> and il grab it:)
[05:15] <diddledan> it's Dawson from Dawson's creek
[05:15] <mapp> he's in it?!?
[05:16] <diddledan> unless I've got the wrong face
[05:18] <diddledan> is patricia arquette, too
[05:19] <diddledan> the guy I think is dawson is james van der beek
[05:19] <diddledan> I know the name and I know the face but I still can't say for certain it's dawson
[05:19] <mapp> hm
[05:19] <mapp> yea james van der beek is him
[05:19] <diddledan> well done me! \o/
[05:30] <mapp> time for sunny in philly
[05:30] <mapp> ho watch it so i know if it's good;p
[06:08] <mapp> diddledan ?:)
[06:09] <diddledan> it was rather fast and disjointed
[06:10] <diddledan> they managed to solve a case in what seemed like half a day
[06:12] <diddledan> and they guessed a 20 digit numeric password in a couple of seconds when confronted with tattoos on four separate men with the numbers divided into dates in the tattoos
[07:36] <mapp> is i worth watching?
[07:36] <mapp> *it
[07:36] <mapp> diddledan
[07:37] <diddledan> depends if you're expecting something other than a standard police procedural that eschews any actual thinking
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:14] <diddledan> allo
[09:27] <czajkowski> diddledan: skynet is all knwowing :)
[09:28] <davmor2> czajkowski: your back as cz<tab> \o/
[09:28] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: how was the oddfellows
[09:29] <czajkowski> davmor2: aye for the time being :)
[09:30] <davmor2> czajkowski: whens the date?
[09:32] <czajkowski> not decided yet.
[09:32] <czajkowski> need to narrow down country :)
[09:33] <Laney> may I suggest uzbekistan
[09:33] <diddledan> good suggestion
[09:34] <diddledan> any istan would suffice tho
[09:35] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: quieter - we got to have conversations without shouting
[09:48] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Book Day! :-D
[09:50] <diddledan> who needs books when we have 1) IRC, 2) wikipedia
[09:50] <diddledan> 3) TEH GOOGLES
[09:51]  * davmor2 grabs his heaviest book covers it with happy minion paper ← 1 happy book
[09:53] <zmoylan-pi> because irc, wikipedia and google are susceptible to rewriting history.  the printed word is not perfect but is hard to change when previous copies persist
[09:53] <JamesTait> And I can't throw IRC at someone.
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: you could throw an IRC *server* at someone
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> one with redundant power supplies for more... impact
[09:56] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I could, but then I'd be mourning the loss of the hardware.  Books might crease a little bit, but they still work.
[09:56] <zmoylan-pi> and the battery life of books is excellent
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: also, paper cuts :)
[09:57] <zmoylan-pi> and it's far easier to loan a physical book to someone than an ebook
[09:57] <JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I've sliced my hands open on the insides of enough servers over the years.
[09:58] <diddledan> I hate servers for the slicing of hands
[09:58] <diddledan> they're evil!
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> JamesTait: yeah, same. stupid metal!
[09:58] <diddledan> thing is you don't notice when you do it - it's when you've stopped doing it that the pain begins
[09:58] <diddledan> and blood
[10:00] <JamesTait> It's quite often the next morning in the shower, or later the same day when I'm washing the dishes, that I find myself thinking "Oh, that's sore - I wonder what I did that on."
[10:02] <MartijnVdS> that's what you get for using bleeding-edge hardware
[10:03] <diddledan> ba dum tsh
[10:03] <zmoylan-pi> don't forget your tetanus shots
[10:03] <zmoylan-pi> in lieu of tipping your waitress...
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: .. just the tip?
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> did you not see reservoir dogs?!
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> ah yes
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> Americans and their weird habits
[10:07] <popey> haha, world book day!
[10:07] <popey> Sophie, Sam and Clare all went to school dressed up today
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> as books?
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> but all the second hand book shops in my town are gone...
[10:12] <SuperMatt> are ubuntu phones available to buy right now?
[10:12] <popey> SuperMatt: only via flash sales
[10:12] <popey> MartijnVdS: as characters from books
[10:12] <SuperMatt> thanks popey
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> popey: did you see? The Burger King at Schiphol runs Ubuntu on its video/ad screens :)
[10:13] <popey> haha, no.
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> popey: I posted a picture to g+
[10:13] <popey> will look
[10:14] <zmoylan-pi> if you want to avoid bsod or weird windows error/update messages it seems like a safe bet
[10:14] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: yeah, purple grub screens are WAY nicer ;)
[10:14] <SuperMatt> I'd really like to know when the next flash sale is happening
[10:15] <zmoylan-pi> purple is a calming colour :-)
[10:47] <Guest46118>  /join #syncthing
[10:48] <diddledan> willdo
[10:49] <zmoylan-pi> you shouldn't listen to 46118, they're just bitter since 46117 left
[10:52] <bigcalm> davmor2: where were you last night?
[10:56] <davmor2> bigcalm: meeting
[10:57] <popey> lies, he was knitting
[10:57] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:57] <zmoylan-pi> he was knitting in a meeting
[10:57] <zmoylan-pi> so at least it was productive :-)
[10:57] <bigcalm> It's March, where's my Ubuntu Phone?
[10:57] <popey> It's also Chinese new year
[10:57] <popey> so "not manufactured yet" is probably accurate
[11:03] <zmoylan-pi> so your shipped phone will be super fresh :-)
[11:04] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: don't say super and a word that begins with F after people will read it as super fish :D
[11:04] <zmoylan-pi> hmmm super fish.... tomorrow is friday... cod and chips...
[11:05] <popey> mmmmm fish
[11:05] <popey> i had fish last night, just to mix things up a bit
[11:05] <zmoylan-pi> the sting of vinegar in your nostrils...
[11:06] <popey> tartare
[11:22] <czajkowski> so need my phone to arrive current one decides to reboot itself for no reason lately
[11:22] <foobarry> dropping phones tend to do that
[11:23] <zmoylan-pi> nonsense, i've dropped my nokia dumbphone 100s of times and have only managed to damage the ground :-P
[11:29] <diddledan> to be fair to foobarry, your nokia dumbphone is completely devoid of functionality to begin with so you'd not notice if it didn't work
[11:29] <diddledan> :-p
[11:30] <foobarry> brick dropped onto brick
[11:30] <zmoylan-pi> email, irc, ebooks, games, web, mp3s, radio.
[11:30] <foobarry> quand la pierre tombe sur l'oeuf, pauvre oeuf. quand l'oeuf tombe sur la pierre, pauvre oeuf
[11:31] <diddledan> half past eleven
[11:31] <zmoylan-pi> gort, klatu barada niktu
[11:31] <diddledan> march 5th
[11:32] <diddledan> have we finished being random yet?
[11:32] <foobarry> who's being ranodm
[11:33]  * zmoylan-pi shakes magic 8-ball.  try again later
[11:33] <diddledan> you with your oofs and zmoylan-pi with his gordon nikita
[11:34] <foobarry> it was a relevant proverb
[11:34] <diddledan> no, it was random jibberish :-p
[11:34] <foobarry> whent he phone falls on the stone, poor phone. when the stone falls on the phone, poor phone
[11:35] <zmoylan-pi> when it's a nokia, look out planet :-)
[11:35] <diddledan> I thought oeufs were eggs
[11:35] <foobarry> nope, definitely phones
[11:54] <NET||abuse> I was listening to a podcast in the last few weeks. probably a jupiterbroadcastingone,, and there was mention of perhaps syncthing, not always reliably syncing all the files in a share
[11:54] <NET||abuse> does anyone remember anything on the topic?
[11:55] <NET||abuse> just wondering how reliable my syncthing setup is going to be longterm
[11:55] <NET||abuse> unless i was mistaken and it was another tool being mentioned? maybe it was actually btsync that had the issue?
[11:58] <popey> yeah, i heard that too
[11:58] <popey> i haven't seen that problem with syncthing but i dont sync massive files with it
[12:03] <diplo> No issues here either, although I sync a fairly small amount compared to others so far
[12:03] <NET||abuse> i'm syncing PIctures and Documents folder right now.
[12:03] <diplo> But I sync to and from my phone ( pics and music ) and pics / calibre from my server to pc's / laptops
[12:04] <NET||abuse> so i'm up at about 15GB of stuff between those two
[12:04] <NET||abuse> i'll be doing a one way backup of my dev folder going back 2 years, that'll be about 40/45GB
[12:05] <NET||abuse> ooh, there maybe vm images in that folder, i might not want to do that.
[12:05] <diplo> Can use .stignore
[12:05] <diplo> To ignore the vms
[12:05] <NET||abuse> wonder if there's a nice way to list out recursively the files in a directory tree and sort by largest
[12:05] <diplo> I'm going to start syncing my dads PC back to mine soon
[12:06] <NET||abuse> find . -printf '%s %p\n'|sort -nr|head
[12:07] <NET||abuse> that show'd up a couple of mysql dumps, ibd files and graylog_centos65_vagrant.box
[12:07] <NET||abuse> hah
[12:08] <NET||abuse> so there's definately a few big files to work through ignoreing
[12:09] <NET||abuse> just found a few >1GB files in my DOcuments folder which i'm already syncing
[12:09] <NET||abuse> a 2.5GB, a 1.5GB and a 1.2G
[12:10] <NET||abuse> couple of large files, few hundred MB files of rpm's and tar.gz's,, informix drivers ,, hahah
[12:11] <diplo> I sync specific directories rather than everything :)
[12:11] <NET||abuse> ahh,
[12:12] <NET||abuse> i've gone for the "I need a backup of my old laptop" approach,
[12:12] <diplo> Created new ones for my mobile and made new ones for other areas and sorted the rest out and moved them into said directories
[12:12] <diplo> So having a tidy up at the same time
[12:12] <NET||abuse> only went as fine grained as /home/me/Documents,  /home/me/Pictures, /home/me/.ssh
[12:13] <NET||abuse> wonder what else i should grab.
[12:13] <diplo> I've done /home/andy/Mobile/{music,pics} and /home/andy/Calibre Library etc
[12:13] <diplo> Hadn't thought about .ssh directory though, quite like that idea
[12:14] <NET||abuse> yeh, i figure it's a good move to keep that sync'd between machines
[12:14] <NET||abuse> turns out though i can't hit the server (nat forwarded using a no-ip.org dns address)from the office network, port 22000 seems to be blocked
[12:14] <NET||abuse> had issues with irc too
[12:15] <NET||abuse> wondering if i'll have to ssh tunnel and override hosts file.
[12:15] <NET||abuse> oh, how do i hcange the port on the connection though
[12:15] <NET||abuse> ahh, you can just to ip:port
[12:25] <diplo> I'd advise starting small though NET||abuse :) Just in case you get something wrong
[12:26] <NET||abuse> hnmm, local forwarding doesn't seem to want to work for me
[12:26] <NET||abuse> is it udp by anycchnace.
[12:27] <NET||abuse> ok, running for lunch.
[12:27] <NET||abuse> brb
[13:06] <davmor2> Wow http://awesomejelly.com/mans-acoustic-version-acdcs-thunderstruck-will-blow-mind/
[13:13] <shauno> nicely done.  but I fear I can't hear thunderstuck without mentioning flaming bagpipes anymore; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e5J116IM6M
[13:34] <diddledan> I prefer flaming galahs
[13:34] <diddledan> ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galah#Cultural_references
[13:35] <diddledan> wow, crocodile dundee is 75!
[13:37] <zmoylan-pi> with the skin tone of 150 :-)
[14:03] <shauno> diddledan: so, this is what I say to your emulation :)  http://i.imgur.com/4ssxl3g.jpg
[14:05] <zmoylan-pi> z80 chips?
[14:05] <shauno> yummy, eh?
[14:06]  * zmoylan-pi hopes fuzixos gets to be usable... https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX
[14:09] <davmor2> shauno: this is still my favourite version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3SBzmDxGk
[14:10] <diddledan> I call shenanigans
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Hello, Shenanigan's?"
[14:18] <diddledan> :-)
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> sounds like a good name for a restaurant
[14:18] <diddledan> it does!
[14:19] <diddledan> or a gaybar
[14:19] <MartijnVdS> or a joke shop
[14:19] <diddledan> lol
[14:24] <foobarry> irish bar
[14:26] <popey> POTATO!
[14:28] <marshmn> hi, could anyone tell me what date 10.04 LTS support ends? is it exactly 5 years from the original release date? or end of April? or something else?
[14:29] <foobarry> server or desktop?
[14:29] <foobarry> !eol
[14:29] <popey> its roughly 5 years. often it's a few weeks later than the release
[14:30] <marshmn> ok thanks
[14:31] <shauno> it's usually a good idea to beat them to it though, as they shuffle it off the main mirrors which just adds more complications  (not big ones, but still)
[14:31] <marshmn> given that 10.04 LTS was released 29th April 2010, does that mean I can rely on it being no sooner than 29th April 2015?
[14:31] <marshmn> I agree we don't want to wait that long
[14:31] <marshmn> I'm just getting asked the question by clients and want to be accurate in my reply
[14:54] <diddledan> moo
[14:54] <diddledan> sorry, I got that wrong, it should be "m00"
[14:57] <diddledan> I've got good launchpad karma today
[14:57] <diddledan> I'm on 273
[14:58] <popey> \o/
[14:58] <popey> almost as good as the 10 million i had back in 2006 :)
[14:58] <diddledan> lol
[14:59] <popey> wish I'd got a screenshot of it
[14:59] <diddledan> I'm not sure I'll ever be half as awesome as you, popey
[14:59] <popey> You know it.
[15:01] <Laney> write a script to close some obsolete bug tasks or something
[15:05] <shauno> odd question, but what did you do before ubuntu, popey ?
[15:05] <popey> SAP
[15:05] <diddledan> eep
[15:05] <shauno> hm.  that explains a lot ;)
[15:08] <popey> haha
[15:08] <popey> 10 years I did SAP
[15:08] <popey> maybe more
[15:08] <shauno> so you weren't actually normal, you just traded one madness for another
[15:09] <shauno> an odd move though.  most people transition from SAP to alcoholism
[15:09] <shauno> so I guess you won :)
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> from SAP to "aww, poor sap"
[15:11] <shauno> I just followed jdub over because the guy he left running garnome was a bit odd
[15:11] <shauno> so most the names I ever recognised were from debian
[15:11] <MartijnVdS> garnome?
[15:11] <shauno> it was a build system for gnome2
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> oh that thing, I think I remember :)
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> way back
[15:12] <shauno> there was jhbuild that built from cvs, garnome that built from released tarballs, and then debian packages that were archiac because debian was stuck in a strange dry spell
[15:12] <MartijnVdS> Debian potato famine ;)
[15:13] <shauno> yeah.  they kinda forgot how to release for a while
[15:13] <diddledan> lol
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> (actually it was woody->sarge)
[15:13] <MartijnVdS> (though potato->woody was a long wait too)
[15:13] <shauno> that sounds about right, because potato I had on CDs, so I would have still been in the UK
[15:15] <shauno> (The scary old days when it was quicker to order CDs from thelinuxemporium than to download them)
[15:15]  * diddledan sniggers cos MartijnVdS said woody. many times.
[15:15] <diddledan> shauno, I remember those times
[15:15] <diddledan> shauno, I bought loads off there for a while
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I made do with "minimal" boot floppies and installed from the mirror :)
[15:16] <diddledan> mandrake, redhat 7, debian, I'm sure others
[15:16] <MartijnVdS> (yay working for an ISP)
[15:16] <shauno> I think I just got potato from there.  redhat I got from a book (?)
[15:17] <MartijnVdS> I started waay back on slackware, with kernel 2.0.30
[15:18] <shauno> I had slack 3.3.  on floppies.  lots and lots of floppies.  dark times.
[15:18] <MartijnVdS> I think I had 3.3 as well
[15:19] <shauno> I have no idea why so many floppies, because I only had enough drive space to install the 'A' ones
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> 3.3 and 3.4 were released with 2.0.30
[15:19] <shauno> I only remember this because it was the only distro I could find that'd let me use two floppies drives instead of one and a ramdisk
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> I remember breaking the system by installing a new libc (libc5 -> libc6 transition? with new gcc and everything)
[15:19] <shauno> (for installation, that is)
[15:21] <shauno> most would copy the installer into a ramdisk so you could eject the first disk.  my 386 had 3meg of ram, so this was a no-go
[15:23] <shauno> important lesson learnt - if you ever find yourself in this situation, don't be sentimental, just bin the machine
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> run it as a VM ;)
[15:26] <MartijnVdS> (I installed warty in a VM a few months ago.. wow that we put up with stuff like that! :P)
[15:28] <shauno> lol, it wasn't that bad
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> shauno: scrolling text boot screens
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> (I remember the Mataro "UDS" (it wasn't called that) where Paul Sladen started to write a seamless boot thing)
[15:29] <shauno> I mean, it wasn't great, but considering that before that I had ximian gnome 1.4 & self-built gnome 2.0 on debian
[15:29] <MartijnVdS> and (years before pulse), a session on fixing audio
[15:29] <shauno> so warty was fun because they'd done all that for me
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> ah yes, that's also one of the reasons I switched
[15:30] <MartijnVdS> the other one was *actual releases*
[15:31] <shauno> I was just easy to impress at that point.  not having to build evolution was ftw
[15:32] <shauno> or firefox :/
[15:32] <shauno> building firefox is a sure-fire way to destroy rose-tinted specs
[15:32] <MartijnVdS> and a new kernel every week
[15:33] <shauno> see, the kernel didn't bother me.  or the stupid nvidia drivers (once I figured out the installer took --options to automate it)
[15:33] <shauno> but ff is a beast
[15:34] <MartijnVdS> shauno: a coworker of mine switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu when he had to re-build OpenOffice for the 3rd time in 1 week because of some missing compile option :)
[15:34] <ali1234> i was a gentoo user before ubuntu as well
[15:34] <popey> dont think i ever touched gentoo
[15:34] <ali1234> the compiling never bothered me
[15:34] <popey> friend of mine used it on servers
[15:34] <foobarry> sack him
[15:35]  * shauno looks at diddledan 
[15:35] <popey> because it supported multiple libraries installed in parallel by default or something
[15:35] <BigRedS> I spent a long time concerned that I was due a slackware phase, but I'm relatively convinced now that I'm far too lazy for that to ever happen
[15:35] <foobarry> and it takes a week to deploy a server
[15:35] <shauno> I've never touched gentoo either.  pretty much all I ever knew of it was the jokes about ricers
[15:35] <ali1234> the biggest problem with gentoo was always that they just throw the newest version of everything in the repo without testing if it actually works
[15:35] <popey> same with arch
[15:35] <foobarry> if arch was a real thing
[15:35] <BigRedS> I think they view that as a feature, though
[15:35] <shauno> all I know of arch is that they seem to have better rpi documentation than rpi do :)
[15:36] <foobarry> yeah, arch is a wiki not a distro ;)
[15:36] <ali1234> arch has better documentation than ubuntu
[15:36] <BigRedS> I'm farily convinced that at point in time only one linux distro may have good documentation. Some limit imposed by the universe
[15:36] <BigRedS> and it's currently arch
[15:37] <popey> yeah, their wiki is what the ubuntu wiki used to be
[15:38] <shauno> ubuntu's documenation always bothers me.  particularly the server guide.  it always feels like someone just replaced the version numbers from the last LTS.  and the LTS before it ..
[15:38] <popey> yeah, docteam is moribund imo
[15:39] <shauno> it's quite annoying, because now we get people showing up in -server because they followed some 'mailservers for people who can't spell mailserver' blog post (or worse, youtube video!) and can't quite get it working
[15:40] <diplo> Digital Ocean and Linode have called how to's and they pay people to write them
[15:40] <diplo> Maybe an incentive for the Ubuntu one :)
[15:40] <BigRedS> If they're documenting the same thing why duplicate the effort?
[15:41] <ali1234> the lack of quality ubuntu documentation appear to be intentional
[15:41] <ali1234> the page about kernel compilation is a great example
[15:41] <ali1234> 2/3rds of it is devoted to "why you shouldn't recompile your own kernel"
[15:41] <popey> nah, it's written by developers
[15:41] <popey> or opinionated doc writers :)
[15:41] <ali1234> and the rest is "just do it the same way as debian!"
[15:42] <shauno> I'm surprised the server guide doesn't just have banner-ads for Ubuntu Advantage
[15:43] <shauno> and I mean that in a "it probably should" way
[15:43] <diplo> BigRedS, because it would feel 'safer' if it was hosted on the official ubuntu server guide ?
[15:45] <shauno> although I do fear if they actually tried to update the docs, the mailserver guide would start with "deploy openstack onto your maas cluster. then launch a couple of postfix charms with juju .."
[15:46] <diddledan> shauno, aye they don't seem to cater for small one-man-bands so much anymore
[15:47] <shauno> I'm not actually sure they were ever trying to.  they were just convenient for a while because, as MartijnVdS pointed out, they actually had releases
[15:47] <shauno> being able to guess when the next release was, and how long this release is supported for, was the main reason I had ubuntu on VMs
[15:48] <diddledan> of course this does raise the question. wth am I not in #ubuntu-server?!
[15:48] <diddledan> *fixed
[15:49] <Myrtti> at least in one point the atmosphere there was downright toxic, and the mission of the channel was unclear - is it for developers of Ubuntu Server, or for user support.
[15:49] <diplo> That's why I left Myrtti
[15:49] <Myrtti> dunno if it has changed since, I've not been for at least a year
[15:49] <Myrtti> if not more
[15:49] <diplo> More developer stuff than anything else imo
[15:49] <foobarry> diplo: on grammar day of all days
[15:49] <foobarry> < diplo> That's why I left Myrtti
[15:50] <foobarry> you lost your comma and made myrrti your partner
[15:50] <foobarry> ex-partner
[15:50] <diplo> :)
[15:52] <shauno> I'm still in there because I can actually be helpful - most the 'regulars' are discussing openstack packaging, so it's quite easy for me to grab low-hanging fruit that they'll happily ignore
[15:53] <shauno> but the developer/user balance is a bit strange.  it does feel like it's more developers, but I've never seen anyone suggest a more appropriate avenue for user support
[15:54] <diplo> I'd prefer to see it separated to be honest
[15:55] <shauno> it used to be.  then they rolled #ubuntu-cloud in.  I'm still not sure why
[15:57] <shauno> but then the mail list is dead too.  perhaps the users simply don't exist
[15:58] <diplo> yeah, I'm still on the mailing list.. I was wondering if I was signed up to the wrong one :)
[15:59] <shauno> I mean, the main advantage of -server now *is* all the openstack-y stuff, and no-one touches that without paying consultants
[15:59] <bashrc> it's important to have users
[16:00] <diplo> I want some hardware to play with that shauno, also like to play with maas and juju
[16:00] <Myrtti> lessons in buying stuff on Amazon or eBay from China. ordered http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CGVDLLQ on 20th of October, and they landed on the hallway floor this morning.
[16:00] <shauno> yeah.  I've tried to play with it, but with only one machine.  which doesn't seem to be a well-supported method :)
[16:01] <shauno> (redhat's rdo stuff does better on that scale.  ubuntu really expects you to start openstack with at least a small handful of boxes)
[16:01] <diplo> No, I asked about that last year... I'd love to be able to do it on a single machine
[16:02] <diplo> I've asked work for some nucs or something and a microserver or a cheap 1u
[16:02] <shauno> redhat's answer to openstack on one machine is to add --allinone to the setup.  ubuntu's is "don't do that"
[16:03] <shauno> seriously, I'm no fan of redhat, but "packstack --allinone" vs the instructions you'll see anywhere else is somewhat astounding
[16:03] <BigRedS> oh, I thought half the point of cloudstack was that it required a team of dedicated engineers in order to deploy it
[16:03] <BigRedS> some sort of job-security wheeze from the developers
[16:04] <shauno> yeah, that's exactly what I mean by everyone needing paid consultants
[16:04] <shauno> it's almost Oracle-esque.  "the little guy" simply doesn't exist
[16:16] <shauno> speaking of amazon, I'm slightly miffed that an order I placed before lunch on tuesday hasn't even shipped yet :(
[16:17] <diddledan> shoulda gone prime :-p
[16:17] <shauno> prime makes no difference for ireland :(
[16:18] <diddledan> isn't the warehouse in ireland tho?
[16:18] <shauno> (it also doesn't affect their dispatch time.  I've paid for 2-3 day shipping.  'shipping' starts once it's out the door.)
[16:19] <diddledan> monday earliest then
[16:19] <shauno> their warehouses appear to be everywhere
[16:20] <shauno> of the parts they have sent, one is coming from GRIMBERGEN (and is now in france, so I assume that's germany-ish), another's coming from Fife.
[16:20] <shauno> and the part that already arrived came from luton
[16:21] <shauno> (luton to shannon via koln  lol)
[16:22] <shauno> I'm just grumpy because I timed it around my days off work, so I'd be here when it's delivered.  so not dispatching it the same week has thrown a spanner in the works
[17:03] <ThomasRedstone> Amazon stuff comes from all over the place, I ordered a load of books at once, and it came in 4 deliveries! 3 different couriers I think as well
[17:04] <shauno> heh, yeah, I'm doing three different couriers too.  ups, i-parcel & regular suface post
[17:04] <diddledan> omg systemd is landing in vivid?!
[17:04] <diddledan> I thought it would miss this cycle
[17:05] <ThomasRedstone> and there are 3 classes of seller, Amazon, 3rd party, fulfilled by Amazon, and 3rd party!
[17:05] <ThomasRedstone> Oddly, I'm just trying to get my application running on Amazon Elastic Beanstalk :-)
[17:05] <bashrc> which one is vivid?
[17:05] <diddledan> bashrc, the iminent one
[17:05] <bashrc> \o/
[17:05] <diddledan> i.e. 15.04
[17:06] <bashrc> so systemd and unit 8 ?
[17:06] <NET||abuse> how difficult is it to put a few desktops on a 14.10 install? on 14.04 i installed gnome and it was ppa's and some conflicts between unity and gnome, what are the options to add gnome or MATE or anything else?
[17:06] <bashrc> s/unit/unity
[17:07] <NET||abuse> has anyone tried adding alternate desktops on a default 14.10 install here?
[17:12] <NET||abuse> nope? ok,
[17:13] <ThomasRedstone> NET||abuse, not too bad, I use Cinamon on 14.10
[17:13] <NET||abuse> did you start with a default unity install and add cinamon?
[17:13] <ThomasRedstone> yeah, it just worked right away I think, no messing around
[17:14] <ThomasRedstone> I think I did follow a tutorial though, so perhaps the messing around was part of the plan, so I don't remember it :-)
[17:15] <NET||abuse> :)
[17:15] <NET||abuse> not sure what i'll do, considering MATE as it just seems to be winning alot lately.
[17:15] <NET||abuse> faster than xfce aparently
[17:16] <NET||abuse> and the new laptop (xps13 2015) is awesome and fast enough, but i'm curious to see how it behaves with an even lighter desktop like MATE
[17:16] <bashrc> a lot of people seem to like MATE
[17:16] <NET||abuse> and also compare the newer gnome3 to unity
[17:17] <NET||abuse> readng around on webupd8.org, they say there are definately a few artifacts introduced to both gnome and unity with a side by side install.
[17:17] <davmor2> NET||abuse: you should just be able to install the desktop package for that environment,  gnome and unity will likely have issues but should be more harmonious in later version of ubuntu
[17:18] <NET||abuse> yup, that's what i'm reading.
[17:38] <treb0r> hi chaps
[17:38] <popey> word
[17:39] <treb0r> Do you think I should get a hidpi screen on my new laptop to run Ubuntu?
[17:40] <treb0r> On the brink of ordering a Dell m3800
[17:40] <treb0r> Not sure if I should shell out for a QHD screen. I intend to use this laptop for at least 5 years so i want it to be top spec
[17:43]  * treb0r watches the tumbleweeds roll through the deserted streets of #ubuntu-uk
[19:09]  * DJones sets fire to the tumbeleweed before they get to treb0r so they're not seen
[20:07] <ali1234> buying lego on ebay is too addictive
[20:07] <ali1234> you can buy single parts
[20:08] <ali1234> just one more piece...
[20:08] <diddledan> a kernel hacker and the software freedom conservency are jointly suing vmware over gpl violations
[20:08] <treb0r> is it always this quiet in here these days?
[20:09] <diddledan> treb0r, it varies
[20:09] <diddledan> ok
[20:16] <Laney> aww I wanted to chew in treb0r but he's not here
[20:17] <diddledan> Laney, sucks!
[20:17] <diddledan> literally!
[20:17] <Laney> on*
[20:17]  * Laney diddles dan
[20:17] <Laney> wait
[20:17] <Laney> your nickname is rude
[20:17] <diddledan> oh myyy
[20:17] <diddledan> only if you have a certain mindset is it rude :-p
[20:18] <Myrtti> tada
[20:18] <diddledan> \o/
[20:18] <diddledan> ello Myrtti
[20:18] <diddledan> wb treb0r
[20:19] <Myrtti> ello diddledan
[20:19] <daftykins> evening all
[20:20] <daftykins> i return from an evening of spending someone elses money :D a fine hobby i might add
[20:20] <diddledan> yey. it's that daft one!
[20:20] <daftykins> \o/
[20:20] <daftykins> sure is
[20:20] <daftykins> 8 x 4TB WD Reds purchased
[20:20] <diddledan> :-o
[20:20] <diddledan> that's OTT
[20:20] <diddledan> WAY OTT
[20:20]  * diddledan counts.
[20:20] <diddledan> that's 32TB!
[20:21] <DJones> Thats too much piratebay downloads
[20:21] <diddledan> lol
[20:21] <treb0r> any of you fine fellows got experience of running Ubuntu on a hidpi screen?
[20:21] <diddledan> yeah more telly than you can conceivably watch
[20:22] <daftykins> well 24TB RAID6 :P
[20:22] <diddledan> treb0r, last I checked there's a bit of wonkyness with some things such as pointer size and issues with non-hidpi-additional monitors
[20:22] <daftykins> treb0r: well ubuntu has dpi controls so i would think it's simple to cope with now
[20:23] <treb0r> Thanks
[20:23] <daftykins> but yeah i think multi display, mixed = headache
[20:23] <treb0r> I'm going to get a new laptop. Can't deicde whether to splurge on a QHD screen or not
[20:24] <daftykins> guess it depends if you like battery life or not
[20:24] <treb0r> I'm going to be using it for years so my instinct is to get the best I can afford.
[20:24] <daftykins> *nod*
[20:24] <daftykins> tough call, i've not seen one in person yet
[20:24] <treb0r> Not botheered about battery really, it's going to a portable workstation really
[20:25] <daftykins> ah
[20:25] <treb0r> Thinking of getting that new Dell M3800 with Ubuntu preinstalled.
[20:25] <treb0r> I've not seen a QHD screen either
[20:29] <daftykins> hmm not seen said model, do you happen to have a page open now for a link?
[20:30] <daftykins> diddledan: you always enjoy a bit of geek porn, don't you? i stripped an x240 just before - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/htwkr81q8n3z0uu/AACI7Jq761gnV-675rMPHnOYa?dl=0
[20:30] <daftykins> came with a tiny SSD so i'm gonna throw in a 512GB to boost it
[20:31] <diddledan> oooh yeah baby, got it's junk hanging out everywhere!
[20:32] <diddledan> lots of nudity: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/htwkr81q8n3z0uu/AACI7Jq761gnV-675rMPHnOYa?dl=0#lh:null-IMG_20150305_182538.jpg
[20:32] <daftykins> 'tis the very best way
[20:32] <daftykins> opens lovely that thing
[20:33] <diddledan> it's a thinkpad - they're pretty solid things
[20:33] <diddledan> eh, does it have two batteries?
[20:33] <daftykins> there is that, though i've heard their reputation has been sliding of late
[20:34] <daftykins> sure does!
[20:34] <daftykins> i took the skinny one out and thought, hang on how does this thing last so long with only a 24Wh? sure enough i remembered there was the second
[20:35] <diddledan> the one on the outside is teeny
[20:36] <daftykins> yip
[20:36] <diddledan> I wonder why they felt the need for one removable and one fixed vs just one slightly bigger fixed
[20:37] <daftykins> well Lenovo likes to champion the swappable-whilst-on approach
[20:37] <daftykins> for business types that keep going
[20:38] <diddledan> swap your batter while on the train with nary a power socket to be seen, and it still doesn't shutdown!
[20:38] <diddledan> sounds a bit too much like voodoo to me
[20:39] <daftykins> hehe
[20:39] <daftykins> i'm still blown away by the 1080p Dell XPS 13 2015 doing 15hrs
[20:40] <daftykins> shame it doesn't seem to actually be for sale on the UK Dell site
[20:47] <diddledan> I didn't know superengineer was a foreigner
[20:48] <diddledan> bloomin aliens!
[20:48] <diddledan> I'll bet he's an illegal one, too
[20:49] <diddledan> hint: to understand my random utterances, it is sometimes advised to have join/part notices not turned-off
[20:52] <shauno> lol.  no, dan
[20:52] <shauno> that might explain that one, but still leaves the vast majority unsolved
[20:54] <daftykins> :)
[21:19] <mapp> diddledan
[21:20] <mapp> not sure i like the main characters in csi cyber
[21:24] <Myrtti> :->
[21:24] <daftykins> 24 and its' complete fake IT chatter makes me cringe... "Michelle we're starting to overload the network, when the virus threat came in we had to start stealing cycles from the main CPU"
[21:24] <daftykins> just no
[21:35] <diddledan> daftykins, you've never stolen cpu cycles?
[21:35] <daftykins> :P
[21:35] <daftykins> what mystical CPU is being disadvantaged to prop up packet switching?
[21:36] <daftykins> is there some core router somewhere that just can't handle checksum offload of this magnitude?
[21:36] <diddledan> the central one that can do everything
[21:37] <diddledan> they need a mikrotik cloud core router - apparently it's capable of routing at over 1Gbit/s
[21:38] <shauno> cloud router?
[21:38]  * diddledan heads tpo teh google to find the stats
[21:38] <shauno> I dun want stats, I want to know what on earth a cloud router is :p
[21:39] <daftykins> it's a bit damp
[21:40] <diddledan> it's just shy f 16Gbit/s: http://cloudcorerouter.com/CCR1036-12G-4S-EM.php
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: CCRs are fun!
[21:40] <diddledan> MartijnVdS, have you played with one?
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: I have its little brother here -- the RB1100AHx2
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://routerboard.com/RB1100AHx2
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> needed something better than an off-the-shelf consumer router with my 500/500 link here ;)
[21:42] <shauno> I guess what I'm asking, is does the 'cloud' in its name actually mean anything, or have they just stuck it on there to get the phb's excited
[21:42] <diddledan> I've got an RB2011UAS-2HnD
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> shauno: PHB excitement. Though their intended use is "in the datacenter" of course
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> apparently, mine can do 1.5 gigabits of AES IPSec traffic *boggle*
[21:43] <diddledan> (the forerunner of the one with a i. the i meaning the new one it has some PoE capability)
[21:43] <shauno> I think after meraki, sticking 'cloud' in the name just scares me
[21:43] <MartijnVdS> shauno: you can try their OS in a kvm virtual machine
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> shauno: (download the "install CD" at http://www.mikrotik.com/download - comes with a 24 hour trial per VM)
[21:44] <diddledan> if you pay for it you can keep it running permanently in that vm or a back-room pc
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> it's basically a Linux kernel with their custom software on top of it; this custom software is super scriptable and nice to use (both GUI (windows app and web app) and ssh)
[21:45] <shauno> I assume it'd work with vmware?  I've never actually got kvm to do anything useful
[21:45] <daftykins> am i imagining it, or is there a boot parameter that allows a live session be put into RAM so the drive can be taken out? i haven't even touched a search engine so feel free to foam at the mouth in my general direction :>
[21:45] <shauno> daftykins: I believe there is
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> shauno: probably, though maybe not with the vmxnet3 10G "virtual network device"
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> just set it to e1000 and it should work
[21:45] <daftykins> huzzah i'm not going insane \o/
[21:45] <shauno> or was.
[21:46] <diddledan> they claim to do some fancy disc manipulation to store the secret password that unlocks it to a full version - they say that copying the disc won't retain the code - I say shenanigans
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> (I read something like that on a forum)
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> I've only used it on routerboard hardware.. no idea :)
[21:46] <daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootToRAM huzzah 'toram'
[21:47] <shauno> huzzah, 11.04 documentation :(
[21:47] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: "Do not use format or partitioning utilities, they will delete your key!" -- I say they store it in the boot sector
[21:47] <diddledan> coincidence that we were only talking about the shoddy ubuntu docs earlier?
[21:48] <shauno> I was just curious because I've seen routers that store their configuration "in the cloud".  which scares the *Ahem* out of me
[21:48] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah these store it in flash memory on the device :)
[21:48] <MartijnVdS> shauno: also, you can script them to make backups over https, ftp, email, .. anything you like really
[21:48] <shauno> lol, yes, I know how routers work
[21:51] <daftykins> ;)
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> anyway, sleep time for me :)
[21:51] <daftykins> s'like a youngster telling me what Dell service tags were the other day
[21:51] <daftykins> i groaned.
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: haha :)