[07:43] <didrocks> morning
[07:54] <darkxst> hey didrocks
[07:56] <didrocks> evening darkxst
[07:58] <ochosi> larsu: after fiddling more with symbolic icons, i can only say this is really worth it! it's super easy and super failsafe, since it falls back to non-symbolic icons automatically if there are non found. so to the worst you get your current behavior
[08:01] <darkxst> didrocks, is the timezone master ;)
[08:04] <didrocks> ahah
[08:15] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:15] <pitti> hey darkxst
[08:16] <didrocks> hey pitti
[08:20] <seb128> hey didrocks pitti ochosi darkxst
[08:20] <ochosi> morning seb128
[08:20] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ça va ?
[08:20] <seb128> pitti, oui, très bien, c'est vendredi ! et toi ?
[08:20] <pitti> seb128: j'ai un rhume, je me sense faible :/
[08:23] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[08:23] <seb128> pitti, repose toi !
[08:24] <jpds> pitti: http://fun.sdinet.de/pics/english/Fahrrad.jpg
[08:24] <pitti> *chuckle*
[08:25] <darkxst> hey seb128
[09:10] <Laney> hello!
[09:10] <didrocks> hey Laney
[09:10] <Laney> soooooooooo does anyone else have to frequently restart n-m to get networking to work on resume?
[09:11] <Laney> as a bonus, this time restarting nm locked the machine up
[09:11] <Laney> hi didrocks!
[09:12] <seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
[09:12] <didrocks> Laney: hum, not yet at least :)
[09:12] <seb128> Laney, no, didn't have n-m issues since brussels here
[09:12] <Laney> ofono was stopped btw
[09:13] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:13] <Laney> not bad, got tea and I can see the sky
[09:13] <Laney> you?
[09:14] <seb128> I'm good, thanks :-)
[09:18] <willcooke> Hello from another airport desktoppers
[09:18] <willcooke> Did anything burn down this week?
[09:19] <seb128> hey willcooke!
[09:19] <willcooke> hey seb128
[09:19] <seb128> no, we know how to party without burning the house don't worry
[09:19] <seb128> ups, did I say party? no no, we worked hard this week
[09:19] <seb128> nothing to worry about :p
[09:19] <willcooke> XD
[09:20] <seb128> how was WMC?
[09:20] <willcooke> Thanks for yours and didrocks reply on that email thread about MWC - it looks like we're heading in a better direction now
[09:20] <willcooke> MWC was AWESOME!
[09:20] <willcooke> Everybody loves the convergence demo.  Lots of people coming back to show their friends and colleagues
[09:21] <willcooke> Some Ubuntu fans even gave it a round of applause
[09:21] <willcooke> :D
[09:21] <didrocks> willcooke: excellent! I hope you had fun :)
[09:22] <seb128> nice
[09:22] <didrocks> willcooke: next step, adding a clapping sensors to transform in desktop mode!
[09:22] <willcooke> It was fun, but really hard work.  Standing up from 8am to 7pm with no proper breaks.
[09:23] <seb128> try to not get the ubuflu on the way back!
[09:23] <didrocks> yeah, and standing the whole day, not used to that anymore working from home desk :)
[09:23] <didrocks> mwcflu :p
[09:24] <willcooke> :D
[09:25] <didrocks> willcooke: enjoy seating in the plane at least ;)
[09:27] <willcooke> :D
[09:49] <flexiondotorg_> Laney, I need some advice regarding a package update.
[09:49] <flexiondotorg_> Laney, Please could you cast your eye over my last reply in this bug please.
[09:49] <flexiondotorg_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mate-menu/+bug/1427742
[09:50] <flexiondotorg_> Just want to know what I should do about the changelog entry for a version that was never release to Ubuntu.
[09:53] <Laney> hi flexiondotorg_, usually I'd update that one instead of adding a new one on top
[09:53] <Laney> so each entry corresponds to one upload in ubuntu
[09:58] <flexiondotorg_> So merge the last code review into the new one and skip the release that never happened?
[10:00] <Laney> Sounds right, you want people to be reviewing the changes between today's archive and what you want to upload
[10:00] <flexiondotorg_> Laney, Thanks. I'll do that now.
[10:36] <Laney> larsu: doing a gtk upload to fix that messagedialog-icon thing, thought I'd take the commit to add a CSS class to title buttons too
[10:36] <Laney> are there any other ones you need?
[10:39] <sabdfl> hi folks, wonder if someone with indicator-location insight would look at this crasher:
[10:39] <sabdfl> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-location/+bug/1419405
[10:39] <sabdfl> seems to have been around a while, regular crash on startup
[10:45] <Laney> sabdfl: Not sure if this is meant to work on current desktops (it's not installed by default there) - should exit cleanly instead of crashing though if that's the case.
[10:45] <Laney> charles: ^?
[10:47] <Laney> Sounds unfriendly for platform-api to be aborting...
[10:48] <sabdfl> yes indeed
[10:48] <sabdfl> it may have come in with unity8 which i have on this machine
[10:48] <sabdfl> but still
[10:50] <Laney> likely
[10:51] <ogra_> technically you should have a dummy location service running
[10:51] <Laney> it's aborting on some missing configuration file
[10:51] <ogra_> hmm, tvoss isnt in here
[10:51] <Laney> see the message in the trace
[10:56]  * ogra_ wonders with ubuntu-location-* services are installed on desktop-next 
[10:57] <ogra_> (in /etc/init)
[10:57] <Laney> does it have this /etc/ubuntu-platform-api/application.conf file?
[10:57] <Laney> or maybe do you just not see the crash ;-)
[10:57] <ogra_> i dont have a desktop unity8 install here :)
[10:58] <ricmm> im trying to think about the cause
[10:58] <ogra_> in the phone there are some overrides
[10:58] <ricmm> if indicator-location-service is started from the context of the unity8 session it should have the platform defined
[10:58] <Laney> https://errors.ubuntu.com/problem/375ff448c30eaac105e835eda789b285b14bf025
[10:58] <Laney> this is in unity 7
[10:59] <Laney> Just run it in your normal desktop environment
[10:59] <ogra_> oh, do we seed it there ?
[10:59] <Laney> no
[10:59] <Laney> but if you have it installed for whatever reason ...
[11:01] <ogra_> well, indicator-location seems to not have a dep on ubuntu-location-service
[11:01] <ogra_> which makes me suspect you dont have a backend installed at all in this case
[11:01] <ogra_> i.e. not even the dummy
[11:03] <ricmm> thats not it
[11:03] <Laney> I definitely don't have this /etc/ubuntu-platform-api/application.conf file that it wants
[11:03] <ricmm> right
[11:04] <ricmm> whats the name of the desktop u8 session package?
[11:04] <Laney> you can just apt-get install indicator-location
[11:04] <ogra_> ubuntu-touch-session
[11:04] <ricmm> the desktop package
[11:04] <Laney> why do you need all of that?
[11:04] <ogra_> it ships that file
[11:04] <Laney> this is a minimal package to reproduce
[11:05] <Laney> who cares? it's valid to install just indicator-location
[11:05] <Laney> nothing should crash
[11:05] <ricmm> yea, no one is contradicting you
[11:05] <ricmm> trying to understand why unity8 and applications find the plugin while indicator location doesnt
[11:06] <Laney> it'll be because something has pulled in ubuntu-touch-session
[11:07] <ricmm> not really
[11:09] <Laney> fine, you take care of it then
[11:10] <ricmm> will do indeed
[11:11] <ricmm> Laney: so I remember a time when there was a unity8 override that provided the desktop session initialization
[11:11] <ricmm> now all I see is different stuff in unity8-desktop-session-mir
[11:15] <Laney> To work it'd have to be applied to unity7 sessions too
[11:16] <ricmm> ok so
[11:17] <ricmm> indicator-location is now being started by the unity7 session?
[11:17] <Laney> if you have it installed, yeah
[11:18] <Laney> I think you want it to exit cleanly if it can't start the location service controller
[11:18] <Laney> but since platform-api aborts you in that case ...
[11:18] <Laney> kind of hard
[11:19] <ogra_> is it started from the upstart job ?
[11:20] <ogra_> as a quick fix you could just add a check for the file to a pre-start script
[11:20] <ricmm> no no
[11:20] <ricmm> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity8-desktop-session-team/unity8-desktop-session/trunk/revision/51
[11:20] <ricmm> with the new scripts we basically dont have that env exported, as they are only exporting the QPA now (for unity8 session)
[11:21] <ricmm> for the failing case under unity7, thats a different thing as we just dont have a need for the platform-api there
[11:21] <ricmm> *however*, depending on how indicator-location is started we can just point it to the dummy provider
[11:21] <ogra_> well, then you need a package dep
[11:22] <ricmm> dep on what, platform-api ?
[11:22] <ogra_> nothing guarantees you the location service is even installed currently
[11:22] <ricmm> the location service being installed or not is irrelevant
[11:22] <ricmm> platform api supports three platforms
[11:22] <ogra_> it provides the dummy provider, no ?
[11:22] <ricmm> touch_mir, desktop_mir and test
[11:23] <ogra_> or do we have another internal one in p-api ?
[11:23] <ricmm> imo unity7 doesnt fall on any of those three, so if unity7 starts the location it should just dunny out
[11:24] <ricmm> so the question is, who starts indicator-location on unity7? does it ship an upstart job?
[11:24] <ogra_> all indicators do nowadays
[11:24] <ogra_> i think
[11:27] <Laney> indeed
[11:27] <Laney> one workaround would be to change the job of course
[11:28] <ricmm> no, just wanted to know, changing it is wrong as its made to start on indicator-services-started or whatever the signal is
[11:29] <ricmm> so if im correct it should also be crashing under the unity8 session
[11:29] <ricmm> right?
[11:29] <ogra_> depends where
[11:29] <ogra_> in desktop-next ubuntu-touch-session is seeded
[11:29] <ricmm> seriously?
[11:29] <ricmm> why would they do that
[11:29] <ogra_> if you plainly install unity8 it wont be dragged in
[11:30] <ogra_> desktop-next uses (nearly) the same seed as touch
[11:30] <ricmm> sure, but application.conf there clearly says touch_mirclient
[11:30] <ricmm> which means hybris sensors, which means blow up
[11:31] <ricmm> the only reason for which its not blowing up is that the qtubuntu plugin has extra checks in place for that
[11:31] <ricmm> but any non-qt app that would like to use sensors would segfault
[11:31] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/Devel/seeds/ubuntu-touch.vivid$ grep ubuntu-touch-session *
[11:31] <ogra_> touch: * ubuntu-touch-session
[11:31] <ricmm> I can only imagine there are other touch-specific bits in ubuntu-touch-session
[11:31] <ogra_> false alarm ... not seeded
[11:31] <ricmm> alright, good
[11:31] <ricmm> so it should be crashing then
[11:31] <Laney> if it was then the error wouldn't talk about the file being missing
[11:32] <ricmm> as the env var was dropped when desktop changed from the unity8-mir upstart job
[11:32] <Laney> unless there are that many people installing it bare
[11:32] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/Devel/seeds/ubuntu-touch.vivid$ grep session *
[11:32] <ogra_> desktop: * unity8-desktop-session-mir
[11:32] <ogra_> touch: * ubuntu-touch-session
[11:32] <ogra_> there we go
[11:32] <ricmm> Laney: could you confirm that it crashes on unity8 as well?
[11:32] <Laney> not easily, maybe seb128 can, afaik he has a desktop-next installation
[11:33] <ricmm> seb128: ^ could you give us a hand with that?
[11:34] <ogra_> if test -z "$DISPLAY" && [ $DESKTOP_SESSION != "unity8-lxc" ]; then
[11:34] <ogra_>   export QT_QPA_PLATFORM=ubuntumirclient
[11:34] <ogra_>   export UNITY_INDICATOR_PROFILE=desktop
[11:34] <ogra_> from unity8-desktop-session
[11:35] <ricmm> yea, thats why I say it should crash too
[11:35] <ricmm> from first glance, the UBUNTu_PLATFORM_API_BACKEND var was dropped
[11:36] <ricmm> when it moved from unity8-mir.conf to these helper scripts
[11:36] <ochosi> hmmm, is gtk3-icon-browser not packaged at all?
[11:36] <ochosi> should be a part of gtk3.14, but i can't seem to find it at all
[11:38] <Laney> ricmm: yeah, okay, just pulled out the inspiron & it is crashing there
[11:38] <seb128> Laney, ricmm, want me to confirm something?
[11:38] <Laney> no worry
[11:41] <Laney> ochosi: no, can probably put it in gtk-3-examples tho
[11:42] <ochosi> Laney: that would be really great!
[11:42] <ochosi> maybe along with gtk-encode-symbolic-svg ?
[11:42] <ochosi> those two are really important for porting stuff to gtk3 and symbolic icons
[11:42] <Laney> what is that?
[11:42] <ochosi> symbolic icons you mean?
[11:42] <ochosi> or the encoder
[11:42] <Laney> no
[11:43] <ochosi> the encoder creates pngs from symbolic svgs which are still recolorable, but are loading faster
[11:44] <ochosi> so you can use that in a script and convert your symbolic icons in humanity or wherever you keep them to .symbolic.png icons
[11:44] <ochosi> gtk3.14 loads them automatically, and faster than with svg
[11:45] <ochosi> https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-encode-symbolic-svg.html
[11:46] <Laney> ok, yeah, sounds like we can install that too
[11:47] <ochosi> sweet
[11:47] <ochosi> thanks a lot!
[11:47] <ochosi> we'll use that in xubuntu for sure
[11:48] <ricmm> so the unity8 crash is a regression as that env var was dropped from the environment
[11:48] <ricmm> however what we could do instead of provide the module config files from the platform-api module package directly
[11:48] <ricmm> install to /usr/share/ubuntu-platform-api/ or something
[11:48] <ricmm> and make touch/desktop conflict/replace
[11:48] <ogra_> how do you know in which env you are then ?
[11:49] <ricmm> what?
[11:49] <ogra_> well, the config changes based on your environment, no ?
[11:50] <ricmm> no, env var can override whats in the config file
[11:50] <ricmm> you either install the touch plugin, or the desktop plugin
[11:50] <ogra_> ah, k
[11:50] <ricmm> but not both
[11:50] <ogra_> yeah
[11:50] <ricmm> right now we are relying on either the env var being there (which it used to be in utopic for unity8-desktop-session-mir) or the application.conf file being there
[11:51] <ricmm> so my suggestion is to ship the file with each plugin, and make both packages conflict
[11:51] <ricmm> so if some -next dependency pulls in something that uses platform-api, it will guarantee that the module conf file is in place
[11:51] <ochosi> Laney: do you want me to report bugs about those two to keep track of them?
[11:51] <Laney> no
[11:51] <Laney> I was doing a gtk upload alraedy
[11:51] <ochosi> oh cool
[11:52] <ricmm> Laney: do you agree with that approach?
[11:52] <ochosi> Laney: thanks a lot!
[11:56] <Laney> ricmm: I don't really like having packages which both supply the same file forever
[11:56] <Laney> Would be best if this could be dynamic - i.e. try to initialise each module in turn until one works
[11:56] <Laney> but in the absence of that I probably prefer setting environment variables
[11:57] <ricmm> its gonna have to be an env var then
[11:57] <ricmm> UBUNTU_PLATFORM_API_BACKEND=desktop_mirclient needs to be part of both unity7 and unity8 sessions
[11:58] <ricmm> it used to be part of the unity8 one, so needs to get back in that file ogra pasted earlier
[11:58] <Laney> it works on x?
[11:59] <ricmm> yes, it works, the UI bits are unused outside of the unity8 session
[12:00] <Laney> ok so you also have to have a dependency which pulls it in
[12:00] <ricmm> it is pulled in by the unity8-desktop-mir-session
[12:00] <Laney> you don't get this if you just install indicator-location
[12:01] <ricmm> indicator-location depends on ubuntu-application-api
[12:02] <Laney> yeah, that only gets you 'test' afaics
[12:02] <ricmm> yea, it is up to the session to set up its environment if you want more than that
[12:02] <ricmm> consideri t like QT_QPA_PLATFORM=dummy
[12:03] <ricmm> Qt doesnt have the depend on qtubuntu-desktop or qtubuntu-android, thats up to the session to provide and setup
[12:03] <ricmm> no?
[12:03] <Laney> I don't really care if it doesn't work without setup
[12:04] <Laney> I care that it doesn't crash though
[12:04] <Laney> and particularly that it doesn't crash on startup
[12:08] <ricmm> Laney: easiest way is to add the env to the unity8 session, and have unity7 default to the dummy plugin
[12:09] <ricmm> if you dont care about it working, just not crashing
[12:11] <Laney> I don't think it's the end of the world to have to install an extra backend to get it working
[12:11] <Laney> does dummy provide fake data or just no data?
[12:11] <Laney> also if I run UBUNTU_PLATFORM_API_BACKEND=test /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/indicator-location/indicator-location-service I get an assertion failure
[12:12] <ricmm> so? but it doesnt crash
[12:12] <ricmm> cant expect it to work with the dummy
[12:12] <Laney> nope
[12:12] <Laney> I'm just saying
[12:13] <ricmm> if you want it to *work* it needs desktop_mirclient
[12:13] <ricmm> but its illogical for idnciator-location to depend on that
[12:13] <ricmm> as it runs on both touch and desktop seeds
[12:13] <ricmm> if you want it to not crash, test is enough
[12:14] <Laney> I'd rather it didn't crash in the no configuration case too
[12:14] <Laney> if that was the case then we would only have to fix unity8
[12:14] <ricmm> yea if we are going to do test I'l just make it default to test if theres no other selection
[12:14] <ricmm> indeed
[12:15] <ricmm> ok, will do it that way
[12:17] <Laney> might be cleaner to get _create_controller() to return nullptr instead of aborting, then i-location could handle the case cleanly and just exit(0)
[12:17] <ricmm> thats what it does when "test" is selected
[12:17] <Laney> ah
[12:18] <ricmm> well, indicator-location can do whatever it want, currently it doesnt exit but it stays running
[12:18] <ricmm> but it doesnt crash
[12:18] <Laney> Indeed that assertion shows it does return null then
[12:25] <ricmm> Laney: ok I'll get a silo for platform-api, who can add the env var to the unity8 mir conf?
[12:31] <Laney> ricmm: hmm, there's no separate desktop job any more, just uses the main unity8 one
[12:31] <ricmm> theres a script that exports the QPA
[12:31] <ricmm> thats where this var should go
[12:31] <Laney> which job is that?
[12:32] <ricmm> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity8-desktop-session-team/unity8-desktop-session/trunk/revision/64
[12:33] <ricmm> lightdm-unity8-session
[12:33] <Laney> ok, not upstart
[12:33] <ricmm> yea
[13:00] <Sweet5hark> moin!
[13:02] <Sweet5hark> Ah, seb128 is cleverly hiding from me as I have a LibreOffice upload for him ... ;)
[13:02] <Sweet5hark> well, friday uploads are a bad idea anyway.
[13:14] <ricmm> Laney: so whos the right guy for the desktop session change?
[13:14] <Laney> did you see the MP?
[13:15] <ricmm> looking
[13:15] <ogra_> bregma presumably
[13:15] <ricmm> Laney: could you confirm on the inspiron that with that change it doesnt crash in the unity8 session?
[13:17] <bregma> we'll need ricmm's approval that it's a sane change then we'll test it in our lab and toss it in a silo
[13:17] <Laney> 'lab' sounds scientific
[13:18] <bregma> but it makes me sound like a professional
[13:18] <ricmm> well I've added to a silo I requested for the platform-api change
[13:18] <ricmm> but yea it looks fine, if someone could confirm on the desktop session that the indicator wont crash
[13:18] <bregma> one of the test machines in my lab sits on a stack of 3 dead laptops so its display is at eye height
[13:19] <bregma> Laney, is there also a fix for the indicator-location crash under Unity 7?
[13:20] <ricmm> theres a platform-api in the same silo-in-wait
[13:20] <ricmm> that makes it default to the dummy
[13:23] <Laney> ricmm: just tried & i-l-s is running now
[13:23] <Laney> so seems ok
[13:23] <ricmm> ok
[13:23] <ricmm> bregma, Laney: I'll ping you with the silo once platform-api is there too to try the unity7 one
[13:23] <ricmm> I've tried here and looks fine
[13:24] <ricmm> well, looks fine in the sense that it doesnt crash just uses the dummy (so no functionality)
[13:24] <Laney> 'k
[14:10] <desrt> didrocks: ping
[14:10] <desrt> didrocks: i just wanted to remind you about how great i think you are
[14:10] <desrt> didrocks: keep it up
[14:35] <Laney> you're right, didrocks is a great guy
[15:19] <ricmm> Laney: vivid 13 has the two packages
[15:19] <ricmm> if you'd like to give it a spin on your test laptop
[16:44] <charles> Laney, thanks for https://code.launchpad.net/~laney/unity8-desktop-session/platform-api-export/+merge/252105
[16:45] <Laney> charles: np
[16:45] <Laney> might want to consider making i-location exit if it can't init the service
[18:06] <charles> Laney, not sure how I could make i-location pre-empt that abort() call; it's happening in platform-api when i-location calls ua_location_service_create_controller()
[18:06] <charles> ie, there's not a way to test first
[18:07] <Laney> ricmm's platform-api change makes it return nullptr now
[18:07] <Laney> IIUC
[18:08] <ricmm> charles: yes, if you'd like to test silo 13 vivid it should be fine now
[18:08] <charles> sure enough, https://code.launchpad.net/~ricmm/platform-api/no-abort-default-dummy/+merge/252108
[18:08] <ricmm> as it will default to the dummy if theres no module selected
[18:10]  * Laney is off
[18:10] <Laney> sorry I didn't get to test, will do monday if you still need it then