[01:35] <cxdvty> ObrienDave: You here bro?
[01:36] <ObrienDave> yup
[01:37] <cxdvty> There are no updates for ubuntu 15.04 after fresh install?
[01:38] <ObrienDave> probably not, did you get the beta or the daily?
[01:38] <cxdvty> beta
[01:39] <cxdvty> will i get an update for the big systemd tomorrow?
[01:39] <ObrienDave> i don't know. could be
[01:39] <cxdvty> And an update when ubuntu 15.04 gets officially released in april?
[01:40] <ObrienDave> i'm sure there will be updates before then
[01:40] <ObrienDave> that's not due out for 6 weeks or so
[01:40] <cxdvty> I mean when it comes out will i have to download it or can i update to the official release from here
[01:42] <cxdvty> What do you think
[01:42] <ObrienDave> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/ubuntu-15-04-release-schedule-date-vivid-vervet
[01:42] <cxdvty> i know its april 23
[01:43] <ObrienDave> you can do a dist-upgrade
[01:43] <cxdvty> sudo apt-get upgrade?
[01:45] <cxdvty> Is that how
[01:45] <ObrienDave> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[01:46] <cxdvty> oh ok
[06:45] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:46] <rat> whelp. I expect that you guys will be hearing plenty come morning when people start reporting in about the systemd switchover...
[10:46] <rat> But it completely broke my ability to use a mouse and keyboard with 15.04 on my chromebook.
[10:46] <rat> Extended hangs during boot and all other sorts of wonderful goodies.
[10:54] <snadge> sign me up.. has it started already?
[10:55] <snadge> oh it has.. :D
[10:56] <rat> yeah. i updated my packages about 30 minutes ago, rebooted and the fun hit me in the face with a sledgehammer.
[10:57] <rat> Had to enable the grub menu so that I can boot with upstart instead. Otherwise I get mandatory 90s hangs for script jobs on nonexistent partitions and no keyboard or mouse in XFCE.
[10:58] <rat> That's relatively minor, considering. I imagine some people are going to experience much worse depending on how esoteric their hardware is.
[10:58] <lordievader> My nfs boot broke, sort of.
[10:59] <rat> This is 11.04 all over again. ;)
[11:01] <k1l_> chromebooks are a different matter, since they need special treatment
[11:03] <rat> yes and no. 4 lines added to /etc/modules is all I needed for everything to work on mine.
[11:05] <rat> Kernel 3.19 has all the patches needed for input support, so for most cases, like mine... it's native.
[11:05] <rat> And systemd still broke it.
[12:16] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:29] <suryatejak> hello everyone, I am a newbie in this room and would like to ask you people something
[12:37] <k1l_> hmm, now we will never get a chance to answer that :(
[12:49] <k1l_> "systemctl status" lists state: degraded. is this right?
[13:08] <BluesKaj> k1l_, yeah i get the same response
[14:23] <lotuspsychje> so, seems systemd will be default on vivid afterall :p
[14:23] <lotuspsychje> !info systemd
[14:24] <lotuspsychje> nice
[14:25] <k1l_> the switch was today. welcome do systemd hell :/
[14:26] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: are you not happy with that?
[14:27] <k1l_> i dont like how all that went and the technical disadvantages.
[14:27] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: but doesnt systemd boot faster then classical init.d?
[14:27] <k1l_> come on. that is all just PR bullshit
[14:28] <k1l_> "and it got colored logs, look, so pretty!"
[14:28] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: maybe shuttleworth will admit also in 5 years, switching to systemd was also a mistake lol :p
[14:28] <k1l_> if you stripdown a system, like it was to showcase the fast booting systemd, every other system boots fast.
[14:29] <k1l_> with redhat winning the debian technical board voting there was no other chance then to let upstart die. that is a pitty
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> im curious how it will run on vivid :p
[14:31] <k1l_> just run the updates. its in since today
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> im still on trusty :p, just following the vidi news also
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> *vivid
[14:32] <lotuspsychje> i saw the systemd switch on softpedia
[14:38] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, systemd running fine here, but I don't notice any faster boot times
[14:39] <BluesKaj> on 15.04 Kubuntu with plasma 5/KF5
[14:42] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: nice
[14:43] <BluesKaj> mind you this is also an older pc , 2008 vintage with 6G Ram upgrade and a faster 7200rpm HDD rather than the stock one , but I doubt even that makes a difference
[14:44] <lotuspsychje> the reason i will like systemd better, its gonna be more easy to disable systemd services
[14:44] <BluesKaj> it's actaull faster with kubuntu 14.10 ..less baggage than the plasma5 methinks
[14:44] <lotuspsychje> now you have to edit service.override manually, i dont like that
[14:45] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: i would like to see ubuntu bootup on systemd with services disabled that arent really needed
[14:45] <lotuspsychje> like CUPS on a laptop example
[14:46] <k1l_> boottimes dont matter tbh
[14:46] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: i like a fast boot on ssd
[14:47] <k1l_> upstart did boot fast.
[14:47] <lotuspsychje> thats true
[14:47] <lotuspsychje> i dont complain :p
[14:48] <BluesKaj> yeah , I'm not worried much about faster boot times ...it's not pi**ng contset , like some think it has to be ...silly notions
[14:49] <lotuspsychje> well i do like to enable/disable services an easy way
[14:49] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, those services are where?
[14:50] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: well ive tested a few packages like jobsadmin example on trusty, seems like the classic init.d doesnt disable them properly
[14:50] <lotuspsychje> !info jobsadmin
[14:50] <lotuspsychje> hmm
[14:51] <lotuspsychje> !info jobs-admin
[14:51] <k1l_> lotuspsychje: well, ubuntu uses upstart
[14:52] <k1l_> or "did" use
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: yes i know, i had to disable cups manually instead of using a GUI
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> cups.override
[14:52] <k1l_> and now its the fact it was a bad idea to not force everyone to use upstart scripts.
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: what you think will happen in the future with systemd then?
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: an article about it here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/07/ubuntu_to_switch_to_systemd/
[14:55] <k1l_> well, it is in the process of getting a big monster. i wonder when it comes with own desktop and kernel :)
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: The plan is to use systemd for a few weeks and if "there are too many or too big regressions", Vivid will be reverted to boot with upstart by default.
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> oh-oh
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> http://www.webupd8.org/2015/03/ubuntu-1504-vivid-vervet-switches-to.html
[14:59] <k1l_> lotuspsychje: in the long run there is no way back
[15:00] <k1l_> you cant keep the effort to patch the logind and other services out of systemd and make them work with upstart again.
[15:00] <lotuspsychje> yeah its pretty black or white here
[15:00] <k1l_> that is the reason ubuntu decided to go with systemd after the debian vote was for systemd
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> ill stick to LTS until the war is over :p
[15:01] <k1l_> the war is over
[15:02] <lotuspsychje> you see no return then?
[15:02] <k1l_> like i said: there is only one possible way. and that is the systemd way.
[15:02] <k1l_> do you pay 100s of developers to strip all the services out of systemd again to make them work with upstart?
[15:03] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[15:03] <k1l_> the linux "community" choose to go the systemd way. so be it
[15:04] <k1l_> and with community i mean people beeing paid by redhat :)
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> nothing to decide as user anymore
[15:05] <marcusk> Well just use RHEL 6 then, it uses Upstart. :-)
[15:06] <k1l_> fedora simulates that they let the users decide there. but in reality its all run by redhat for their business decisions. i am fine with that but not with people telling me that its the users choice.
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> true statement
[15:07] <k1l_> its always a big shitstorm if canonical does some decisions. but other companies can do what they want. that is not right imho.
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> unity, amazon, systemd,..whats next
[15:09] <k1l_> i am looking forward to unity8 and MIR on the desktop.
[15:09] <k1l_> but that will take some time
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> MIR is promising indeed
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> and the ubuntu phones are doing great also
[15:12] <k1l_> that is another one where ubuntu/canonical delivered. unlike some heavy critics
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> k1l_: well as long as the normal user can use ubuntu on their hardware, its a good thing right
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> better ubuntu then android nightmare
[15:14] <k1l_> no i mean there are some groups who started shitstorms on purpose to isolate ubuntu/canonical from the rest of the linux community.
[15:14] <lotuspsychje> yeah i understand
[15:15] <k1l_> like the kde guys with their vivaldi tablet that never happend but made heavy critics against ubuntu touch. or the kde guys trying to stirr up drama about Xmir, when they praise Xwayland.
[15:16] <lotuspsychje> so far for 'opensource' then
[15:18] <k1l_> the reason they gave for forbidding to make MIR, systemd never had been allowed to be made :)
[15:18] <lotuspsychje> :p
[15:52] <rww> Excellent example of the kind of nonsense we'll have to put up with in #ubuntu in April. Thanks for the reminder to get my bingo card ready before then.
[15:52] <rww> also a very large alcohol order -_-
[15:52] <lotuspsychje> rww: :p
[16:01] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: how's the overall smoothness on vivid?
[16:19] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, it's ok , thee are some small issues like app freezes which unfreeze with alt-tab, and desktop switching is nice and smooth ..it's ok and getting better with each upgrade
[16:19] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: ok tnx for feedback
[20:14] <cxdvty> hey all... anyone chatting atm??
[20:14] <cxdvty> ObrienDave you here?
[20:15] <ObrienDave> yup
[20:15] <cxdvty> Is sytemd our for 15.04 yet?
[20:15] <ObrienDave> don't know
[20:16] <cxdvty> Anyone with 15.04 ?? d:
[20:16] <cxdvty> I ransudo apt-get dist-upgrade and its running
[20:16] <ObrienDave> cool
[20:18] <cxdvty> yeah hopefully i can boot after lol
[20:21] <elfy> cxdvty: you made it then :)
[20:22] <cxdvty> yes ^.^
[20:22] <cxdvty> I just need to know if they have switched to systemd yet
[20:22] <elfy> apparently so
[20:22] <MoonUnit`> yes
[20:23] <cxdvty> How do i get the update?
[20:24] <MoonUnit`> normal dist-upgrade i think
[20:24] <cxdvty> Ok that's running already
[20:24] <cxdvty> Does the system get better with systemd?
[20:25] <elfy> better?
[20:25] <MoonUnit`> it may boot faster
[20:25] <cxdvty> Like right now when i open/close windows its like they are having a seizure lol
[20:26] <elfy> that'll be something else
[20:26] <cxdvty> Does that happen to you guys?
[20:26] <elfy> MoonUnit`: it did used to boot faster here - now I appear to have a glitch with kvm and virt ethernet or something
[20:27] <elfy> cxdvty: not me
[20:27] <elfy> I don't use kubuntu though
[20:27] <MoonUnit`> cxdvty: nor me
[20:28] <MoonUnit`> elfy: i've had problems with kvm since 3.19, page allocation failures.
[20:28] <elfy> right
[20:28] <elfy> I didn't want to allocate blame - kvm is new to me for a start
[20:28] <elfy> I just know if I remove it - it boots in 3 seconds ish
[20:29] <elfy> that said - it's all booted to desktop fine before that
[20:29] <elfy> so ...
[20:29] <cxdvty> This is annnoying
[20:30] <elfy> cxdvty: I'd start by seeing if there's any graphics drivers available
[20:31] <cxdvty> Ok
[20:31] <cxdvty> you can guide me lol'
[20:31] <cxdvty> Im in quite a situation
[20:31] <elfy> nope
[20:31] <elfy> I don't use Kubuntu ;)
[20:31] <cxdvty> How do i check for drivers
[20:31] <elfy> System Settings Menu under “Driver Manager for Kubuntu”
[20:31] <elfy> apparently
[20:32] <MoonUnit`> cxdvty: maybe go into settings/display and monitor/compositor and try changing some settings
[20:32] <keithzg> Or just type "driver" into krunner (alt+f2) and you'll probably get it, cxdvty ;)
[20:32] <keithzg> (who uses menus anymore? they're soooo 2009 :P)
[20:32] <elfy> lol
[20:33] <keithzg> (KDE4 came out in 2008, but it was only 2010 that it didn't crash hard on my NVIDIA twinview setup, heh)
[20:33] <cxdvty> driver management software
[20:33] <keithzg> cxdvty: Yup, that's the ticket.
[20:34] <cxdvty> Ok
[20:34] <cxdvty> it says Collecting information about your system
[20:35] <cxdvty> do i just wait
[20:35] <elfy> yes
[20:38] <cxdvty> still waiting lol
[20:38] <keithzg> It shouldn't take *too* long, though. Or maybe I just always buy fast, expensive machines, heh
[20:38] <cxdvty> ever go home aftyer school and accidentally sneak to many beers and you think you cant keep your cool lol
[20:38] <cxdvty> im a little messed up
[20:39] <keithzg> Friends don't let friends drunk upgrade? ;)
[20:40] <cxdvty> stahp oit im good lol
[20:40] <cxdvty> So i got a few options for drivers but i cant screenshot
[20:40] <keithzg> Hmm, sure you can't? Try manually running ksnapshot.
[20:40] <cxdvty> im building a bad fututre profed machine that will kick your ass haha
[20:40] <cxdvty> ok
[20:42] <cxdvty> uploading it w
[20:43] <cxdvty> http://imgur.com/9lthLYV
[20:43] <cxdvty> what do i choose lol
[20:44] <keithzg> I'd try out fglrx-updates, that's what I normally run on my AMD graphics systems.
[20:47] <cxdvty> ok
[20:48] <MoonUnit`> using the 4.0 rc3 kernel with my Ati card.
[20:48] <cxdvty> ok
[20:49] <MoonUnit`> using open source drivers
[20:50] <cxdvty> Does anyone use samsung galaxy s3?
[20:51] <cxdvty> !language | cxdvty
[20:54] <cxdvty> !language
[20:54] <cxdvty> !ask
[20:54] <cxdvty> !poop
[20:54] <cxdvty> d: sorry im just testiung
[20:54] <elfy> please don't play with the bot in here
[20:55] <cxdvty> Sorry bro
[20:56] <cxdvty> brb ima reboot this puppy
[20:57] <keithzg> heh, best of luck to him, I just rebooted my 15.04 laptop after running an upgrade and now GRUB isn't even loading!
[20:58] <elfy> hopefully he listened yesterday and dualbooted with 14.04
[20:58] <elfy> oh
[20:58] <elfy> that'll not help with no grub
[20:59] <elfy> that said I upgrade ~hour or so back and rebooted ok
[20:59] <keithzg> Oh, yeah, I doubt it's a universal problem that I'm running into.
[21:00] <keithzg> GRUB has never quite played nicely with this laptop.
[21:00] <elfy> that's meh
[21:01] <keithzg> It's not *too* surprising, a Chromebook ain't a normal scenario, guess it gets overlooked.
[21:01] <keithzg> Since I still have ChromeOS installed I can always just boot into that, mount my *buntu install and chroot into it to fix things up.
[21:02] <keithzg> (which is literally what I'm doing right now)
[21:03] <cxdvty> I'm back
[21:04] <elfy> keithzg: aaah - saw someone else with chromebook issues a day or so ago
[21:04] <elfy> unless it was you in here ;)
[21:05] <keithzg> elfy: Nope, only remembered this channel existed today, heh
[21:05] <keithzg> (and hadn't been running into issues with the +1 this cycle yet anyways)
[21:05] <keithzg> cxdvty: Windows performing better when minimizing and such now?
[21:05] <cxdvty> seems so
[21:07] <keithzg> Good to hear.
[21:07] <cxdvty> yes (:
[21:07] <elfy> keithzg: was in here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/09/%23ubuntu+1.html#t10:46
[21:08] <xiph> Is systemd here to stay now?
[21:10] <lordievader> Likely, yes.
[21:10] <xiph> Finally! :-)
[21:11] <lordievader> Hehe, finally someone positive about systemd ;)
[21:11] <keithzg> elfy: Hmm, wonder what Chromebook he was running. But yeah, my own problem is sadly even lower level than that; still can't seem to get GRUB to load again, hrmmmm
[21:11] <keithzg> Aha wait I was just being silly.
[21:12] <cxdvty> i love it so far lordievader
[21:12] <xiph> I guess a lot of people are screaming about it, but I just wanted to come by and say that so far it has just worked fine for me.
[21:12] <keithzg> Forgot --force (since grub, somewhat correctly, won't really install in the classic configuration on a drive using GPT).
[21:13] <keithzg> Heh my first experience with it was a complete disaster, although that was in Debian Jessie and I *did* open a bug report for it. My first ever actual Debian bug submission! https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=778268
[21:13] <cxdvty> Can you tweak kubuntu/ubuntu safely? ObrienDave
[21:13] <keithzg> Actually, that's not quite true. My first direct experience with systemd has been with SailfishOS, and it's been quite great there.
[21:13] <cxdvty> !utopic
[21:14] <cxdvty> !Android
[21:14] <elfy> cxdvty: please
[21:14] <cxdvty> dang wheres the android channel
[21:15] <cxdvty> elfy: Trying to find out where android is
[21:15] <cxdvty> elfy: I put utopic cuz thats what i was thinking about but i meand android d:
[21:15] <elfy> then look in the server > list of channels
[21:15] <lordievader> I've had mixed experiences. On (K)Ubuntu the first time it went very smooth. On Gentoo it was a disaster. Another (K)Ubuntu netboot has problems with the rootfs.
[21:15] <lordievader> !alis | cxdvty
[21:17] <cxdvty> join #freenode
[21:17] <cxdvty> forgot the slash
[21:19] <ObrienDave> cxdvty, up to a point. i try to NOT tweak too much
[21:24] <keithzg> Package management is your friend for tweaking. The important thing is to know where your user's config files for something are. Once you know that, and are willing to do purges and reinstalls of packages, you're *generally* pretty safe.
[21:24] <keithzg> But I'm the kind of guy who, when things break, goes "oooh, interesting!", so take that with a grain of salt ;)
[21:25] <cxdvty> ok
[21:28] <lordievader> keithzg: That is the fun part, right, when things break :P
[21:29] <cxdvty> anyone use ubuntu touch?
[21:30] <cxdvty> ??
[21:30] <elfy> on a nexus7 I am
[21:30] <cxdvty> Hows the battery
[21:30] <cxdvty> does sms and phone calls work
[21:31] <cxdvty> What is the app store like?
[21:31] <cxdvty> Snapchat and others available?
[21:31] <elfy> not looked - not had it long
[21:33] <cxdvty> ok but do phone plans work on it
[21:33] <keithzg> Used Ubuntu Touch a bit on a Nexus 4, seems nice and stable but functionally far behind Android and SailfishOS (the latter is what I normally boot my Nexus 4 into). Still, I check in from time to time and it seems to be coming along nicely enough.
[21:34] <keithzg> Hmmm, just upgraded to systemd now on my 15.04 Chromebook. Now don't get the display manager coming up, just the systemd boot listing with mostly OK's but a bunch of FAILED lines too.
[21:36] <cxdvty> i didnt have any probs
[21:36] <cxdvty> brb switching to ubuntu
[21:37] <keithzg> ...hmmm, tried to pipe "systemctl --failed" to pastebinit, but apparently I don't have that installed. So tried to, but it seems to think /var/lib/dpkg/lock is read-only.
[21:37] <keithzg> Yet mount shows / as mounted rw
[21:38] <keithzg> Yeah, that's weird, any attempt I make at writing to the root partition fails, even though mount claims that / is mounted read-write.
[21:39] <keithzg> Does that happen to sound like your rootfs problem, lordievader?
[21:41] <lordievader> keithzg: Yes.
[21:41] <lordievader> keithzg: 'sudo mount -o remount,rw /' fixes that.
[21:42] <lordievader> But the more annoying part is in the initramfs. It will mount and umount the root fs a whole number of times before continueing.
[22:19] <keithzg> lordievader: Hmm, seems to boot pretty instantly for me (and then stop for ages there because of the lack of rw), and then when I remount it loads lightdm without any visible delay.
[22:19] <lordievader> keithzg: Is your rootfs on nfs?
[22:19] <keithzg> lordievader: Nope, just good ol' ext4
[22:19] <lordievader> My root is on nfs ;)
[22:20] <keithzg> ahhh, I can see how a delay that's imperceptable on my end might end up being . . . not so for you ;)
[22:21] <keithzg> My output of systemctl --failed looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10571118/
[22:21] <lordievader> Guess I should do that sometime on that host...
[22:26] <keithzg> Any quick way to restart all failed services?
[22:27] <k1l> for me its only ntp.service that failed
[23:33] <cxdvty> Hey guys :D
[23:46] <cxdvty> ObrienDave know anything about ipod touch and itunes?
[23:50] <ObrienDave> oh heavens no
[23:51] <k1l> if you want a compatible hardware buy compatible hardware :) and no, the apple stuff is one of the most un-open one
[23:55] <cxdvty> I am gonna port android to my ipod touch but i forgot my passcode