/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/09/#ubuntu+1.txt

=== IdleOne- is now known as IdleOne
cxdvtyObrienDave: You here bro?01:35
ObrienDaveyup01:36
cxdvtyThere are no updates for ubuntu 15.04 after fresh install?01:37
ObrienDaveprobably not, did you get the beta or the daily?01:38
cxdvtybeta01:38
cxdvtywill i get an update for the big systemd tomorrow?01:39
ObrienDavei don't know. could be01:39
cxdvtyAnd an update when ubuntu 15.04 gets officially released in april?01:39
ObrienDavei'm sure there will be updates before then01:40
ObrienDavethat's not due out for 6 weeks or so01:40
cxdvtyI mean when it comes out will i have to download it or can i update to the official release from here01:40
cxdvtyWhat do you think01:42
ObrienDavehttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/11/ubuntu-15-04-release-schedule-date-vivid-vervet01:42
cxdvtyi know its april 2301:42
ObrienDaveyou can do a dist-upgrade01:43
cxdvtysudo apt-get upgrade?01:43
cxdvtyIs that how01:45
ObrienDavesudo apt-get dist-upgrade01:45
cxdvtyoh ok01:46
=== Malsasa_ is now known as Malsasa
=== Malsasa is now known as Guest75447
=== Malsasa_ is now known as Malsasa
=== Malsasa_ is now known as Malsasa
lordievaderGood morning.06:45
=== lotuspsychje_ is now known as lotuspsychje
=== dcmorton_ is now known as dcmorton
ratwhelp. I expect that you guys will be hearing plenty come morning when people start reporting in about the systemd switchover...10:46
ratBut it completely broke my ability to use a mouse and keyboard with 15.04 on my chromebook.10:46
ratExtended hangs during boot and all other sorts of wonderful goodies.10:46
snadgesign me up.. has it started already?10:54
snadgeoh it has.. :D10:55
ratyeah. i updated my packages about 30 minutes ago, rebooted and the fun hit me in the face with a sledgehammer.10:56
ratHad to enable the grub menu so that I can boot with upstart instead. Otherwise I get mandatory 90s hangs for script jobs on nonexistent partitions and no keyboard or mouse in XFCE.10:57
ratThat's relatively minor, considering. I imagine some people are going to experience much worse depending on how esoteric their hardware is.10:58
lordievaderMy nfs boot broke, sort of.10:58
ratThis is 11.04 all over again. ;)10:59
k1l_chromebooks are a different matter, since they need special treatment11:01
ratyes and no. 4 lines added to /etc/modules is all I needed for everything to work on mine.11:03
ratKernel 3.19 has all the patches needed for input support, so for most cases, like mine... it's native.11:05
ratAnd systemd still broke it.11:05
=== kbroulik is now known as kbroulik-lunch
BluesKajHiyas all12:16
suryatejakhello everyone, I am a newbie in this room and would like to ask you people something12:29
k1l_hmm, now we will never get a chance to answer that :(12:37
k1l_"systemctl status" lists state: degraded. is this right?12:49
=== kbroulik-lunch is now known as kbroulik
BluesKajk1l_, yeah i get the same response13:08
lotuspsychjeso, seems systemd will be default on vivid afterall :p14:23
lotuspsychje!info systemd14:23
ubottusystemd (source: systemd): system and service manager. In component main, is standard. Version 219-4ubuntu3 (vivid), package size 3259 kB, installed size 18188 kB (Only available for linux-any)14:24
lotuspsychjenice14:24
k1l_the switch was today. welcome do systemd hell :/14:25
lotuspsychjek1l_: are you not happy with that?14:26
k1l_i dont like how all that went and the technical disadvantages.14:27
lotuspsychjek1l_: but doesnt systemd boot faster then classical init.d?14:27
k1l_come on. that is all just PR bullshit14:27
k1l_"and it got colored logs, look, so pretty!"14:28
lotuspsychjek1l_: maybe shuttleworth will admit also in 5 years, switching to systemd was also a mistake lol :p14:28
k1l_if you stripdown a system, like it was to showcase the fast booting systemd, every other system boots fast.14:28
k1l_with redhat winning the debian technical board voting there was no other chance then to let upstart die. that is a pitty14:29
lotuspsychjeim curious how it will run on vivid :p14:30
k1l_just run the updates. its in since today14:31
lotuspsychjeim still on trusty :p, just following the vidi news also14:31
lotuspsychje*vivid14:31
lotuspsychjei saw the systemd switch on softpedia14:32
BluesKajlotuspsychje, systemd running fine here, but I don't notice any faster boot times14:38
BluesKajon 15.04 Kubuntu with plasma 5/KF514:39
lotuspsychjeBluesKaj: nice14:42
BluesKajmind you this is also an older pc , 2008 vintage with 6G Ram upgrade and a faster 7200rpm HDD rather than the stock one , but I doubt even that makes a difference14:43
lotuspsychjethe reason i will like systemd better, its gonna be more easy to disable systemd services14:44
BluesKajit's actaull faster with kubuntu 14.10 ..less baggage than the plasma5 methinks14:44
lotuspsychjenow you have to edit service.override manually, i dont like that14:44
lotuspsychjeBluesKaj: i would like to see ubuntu bootup on systemd with services disabled that arent really needed14:45
lotuspsychjelike CUPS on a laptop example14:45
k1l_boottimes dont matter tbh14:46
lotuspsychjek1l_: i like a fast boot on ssd14:46
k1l_upstart did boot fast.14:47
lotuspsychjethats true14:47
lotuspsychjei dont complain :p14:47
BluesKajyeah , I'm not worried much about faster boot times ...it's not pi**ng contset , like some think it has to be ...silly notions14:48
lotuspsychjewell i do like to enable/disable services an easy way14:49
BluesKajlotuspsychje, those services are where?14:49
lotuspsychjeBluesKaj: well ive tested a few packages like jobsadmin example on trusty, seems like the classic init.d doesnt disable them properly14:50
lotuspsychje!info jobsadmin14:50
ubottuPackage jobsadmin does not exist in vivid14:50
lotuspsychjehmm14:50
lotuspsychje!info jobs-admin14:51
ubottujobs-admin (source: jobs-admin): system job management utility. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.8.0-0ubuntu4 (vivid), package size 14 kB, installed size 137 kB14:51
k1l_lotuspsychje: well, ubuntu uses upstart14:51
k1l_or "did" use14:52
lotuspsychjek1l_: yes i know, i had to disable cups manually instead of using a GUI14:52
lotuspsychjecups.override14:52
k1l_and now its the fact it was a bad idea to not force everyone to use upstart scripts.14:52
lotuspsychjek1l_: what you think will happen in the future with systemd then?14:53
lotuspsychjek1l_: an article about it here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/07/ubuntu_to_switch_to_systemd/14:55
k1l_well, it is in the process of getting a big monster. i wonder when it comes with own desktop and kernel :)14:55
lotuspsychjelol14:55
lotuspsychjek1l_: The plan is to use systemd for a few weeks and if "there are too many or too big regressions", Vivid will be reverted to boot with upstart by default.14:59
lotuspsychjeoh-oh14:59
lotuspsychjehttp://www.webupd8.org/2015/03/ubuntu-1504-vivid-vervet-switches-to.html14:59
k1l_lotuspsychje: in the long run there is no way back14:59
k1l_you cant keep the effort to patch the logind and other services out of systemd and make them work with upstart again.15:00
lotuspsychjeyeah its pretty black or white here15:00
k1l_that is the reason ubuntu decided to go with systemd after the debian vote was for systemd15:00
lotuspsychjeill stick to LTS until the war is over :p15:01
k1l_the war is over15:01
lotuspsychjeyou see no return then?15:02
k1l_like i said: there is only one possible way. and that is the systemd way.15:02
k1l_do you pay 100s of developers to strip all the services out of systemd again to make them work with upstart?15:02
lotuspsychjeindeed15:03
k1l_the linux "community" choose to go the systemd way. so be it15:03
k1l_and with community i mean people beeing paid by redhat :)15:04
lotuspsychjelolz15:04
lotuspsychjenothing to decide as user anymore15:04
marcuskWell just use RHEL 6 then, it uses Upstart. :-)15:05
k1l_fedora simulates that they let the users decide there. but in reality its all run by redhat for their business decisions. i am fine with that but not with people telling me that its the users choice.15:06
lotuspsychjetrue statement15:06
k1l_its always a big shitstorm if canonical does some decisions. but other companies can do what they want. that is not right imho.15:07
lotuspsychjeunity, amazon, systemd,..whats next15:08
k1l_i am looking forward to unity8 and MIR on the desktop.15:09
k1l_but that will take some time15:09
lotuspsychjeMIR is promising indeed15:09
lotuspsychjeand the ubuntu phones are doing great also15:11
k1l_that is another one where ubuntu/canonical delivered. unlike some heavy critics15:12
lotuspsychjek1l_: well as long as the normal user can use ubuntu on their hardware, its a good thing right15:13
lotuspsychjebetter ubuntu then android nightmare15:13
k1l_no i mean there are some groups who started shitstorms on purpose to isolate ubuntu/canonical from the rest of the linux community.15:14
lotuspsychjeyeah i understand15:14
k1l_like the kde guys with their vivaldi tablet that never happend but made heavy critics against ubuntu touch. or the kde guys trying to stirr up drama about Xmir, when they praise Xwayland.15:15
lotuspsychjeso far for 'opensource' then15:16
k1l_the reason they gave for forbidding to make MIR, systemd never had been allowed to be made :)15:18
lotuspsychje:p15:18
rwwExcellent example of the kind of nonsense we'll have to put up with in #ubuntu in April. Thanks for the reminder to get my bingo card ready before then.15:52
rwwalso a very large alcohol order -_-15:52
lotuspsychjerww: :p15:52
lotuspsychjeBluesKaj: how's the overall smoothness on vivid?16:01
BluesKajlotuspsychje, it's ok , thee are some small issues like app freezes which unfreeze with alt-tab, and desktop switching is nice and smooth ..it's ok and getting better with each upgrade16:19
lotuspsychjeBluesKaj: ok tnx for feedback16:19
cxdvtyhey all... anyone chatting atm??20:14
cxdvtyObrienDave you here?20:14
ObrienDaveyup20:15
cxdvtyIs sytemd our for 15.04 yet?20:15
ObrienDavedon't know20:15
cxdvtyAnyone with 15.04 ?? d:20:16
cxdvtyI ransudo apt-get dist-upgrade and its running20:16
ObrienDavecool20:16
cxdvtyyeah hopefully i can boot after lol20:18
elfycxdvty: you made it then :)20:21
cxdvtyyes ^.^20:22
cxdvtyI just need to know if they have switched to systemd yet20:22
elfyapparently so20:22
MoonUnit`yes20:22
cxdvtyHow do i get the update?20:23
MoonUnit`normal dist-upgrade i think20:24
cxdvtyOk that's running already20:24
cxdvtyDoes the system get better with systemd?20:24
elfybetter?20:25
MoonUnit`it may boot faster20:25
cxdvtyLike right now when i open/close windows its like they are having a seizure lol20:25
elfythat'll be something else20:26
cxdvtyDoes that happen to you guys?20:26
elfyMoonUnit`: it did used to boot faster here - now I appear to have a glitch with kvm and virt ethernet or something20:26
elfycxdvty: not me20:27
elfyI don't use kubuntu though20:27
MoonUnit`cxdvty: nor me20:27
MoonUnit`elfy: i've had problems with kvm since 3.19, page allocation failures.20:28
elfyright20:28
elfyI didn't want to allocate blame - kvm is new to me for a start20:28
elfyI just know if I remove it - it boots in 3 seconds ish20:28
elfythat said - it's all booted to desktop fine before that20:29
elfyso ...20:29
cxdvtyThis is annnoying20:29
elfycxdvty: I'd start by seeing if there's any graphics drivers available20:30
cxdvtyOk20:31
cxdvtyyou can guide me lol'20:31
cxdvtyIm in quite a situation20:31
elfynope20:31
elfyI don't use Kubuntu ;)20:31
cxdvtyHow do i check for drivers20:31
elfySystem Settings Menu under “Driver Manager for Kubuntu”20:31
elfyapparently20:31
MoonUnit`cxdvty: maybe go into settings/display and monitor/compositor and try changing some settings20:32
keithzgOr just type "driver" into krunner (alt+f2) and you'll probably get it, cxdvty ;)20:32
keithzg(who uses menus anymore? they're soooo 2009 :P)20:32
elfylol20:32
keithzg(KDE4 came out in 2008, but it was only 2010 that it didn't crash hard on my NVIDIA twinview setup, heh)20:33
cxdvtydriver management software20:33
keithzgcxdvty: Yup, that's the ticket.20:33
cxdvtyOk20:34
cxdvtyit says Collecting information about your system20:34
cxdvtydo i just wait20:35
elfyyes20:35
cxdvtystill waiting lol20:38
keithzgIt shouldn't take *too* long, though. Or maybe I just always buy fast, expensive machines, heh20:38
cxdvtyever go home aftyer school and accidentally sneak to many beers and you think you cant keep your cool lol20:38
cxdvtyim a little messed up20:38
keithzgFriends don't let friends drunk upgrade? ;)20:39
cxdvtystahp oit im good lol20:40
cxdvtySo i got a few options for drivers but i cant screenshot20:40
keithzgHmm, sure you can't? Try manually running ksnapshot.20:40
cxdvtyim building a bad fututre profed machine that will kick your ass haha20:40
cxdvtyok20:40
cxdvtyuploading it w20:42
cxdvtyhttp://imgur.com/9lthLYV20:43
cxdvtywhat do i choose lol20:43
keithzgI'd try out fglrx-updates, that's what I normally run on my AMD graphics systems.20:44
cxdvtyok20:47
MoonUnit`using the 4.0 rc3 kernel with my Ati card.20:48
cxdvtyok20:48
MoonUnit`using open source drivers20:49
cxdvtyDoes anyone use samsung galaxy s3?20:50
cxdvty!language | cxdvty20:51
ubottucxdvty, please see my private message20:51
cxdvty!language20:54
ubottuThe main Ubuntu channels require that you speak in calm, polite English. For other languages, please visit https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList20:54
cxdvty!ask20:54
ubottuPlease don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience20:54
cxdvty!poop20:54
cxdvtyd: sorry im just testiung20:54
elfyplease don't play with the bot in here20:54
cxdvtySorry bro20:55
cxdvtybrb ima reboot this puppy20:56
keithzgheh, best of luck to him, I just rebooted my 15.04 laptop after running an upgrade and now GRUB isn't even loading!20:57
elfyhopefully he listened yesterday and dualbooted with 14.0420:58
elfyoh20:58
elfythat'll not help with no grub20:58
elfythat said I upgrade ~hour or so back and rebooted ok20:59
keithzgOh, yeah, I doubt it's a universal problem that I'm running into.20:59
keithzgGRUB has never quite played nicely with this laptop.21:00
elfythat's meh21:00
keithzgIt's not *too* surprising, a Chromebook ain't a normal scenario, guess it gets overlooked.21:01
keithzgSince I still have ChromeOS installed I can always just boot into that, mount my *buntu install and chroot into it to fix things up.21:01
keithzg(which is literally what I'm doing right now)21:02
cxdvtyI'm back21:03
elfykeithzg: aaah - saw someone else with chromebook issues a day or so ago21:04
elfyunless it was you in here ;)21:04
keithzgelfy: Nope, only remembered this channel existed today, heh21:05
keithzg(and hadn't been running into issues with the +1 this cycle yet anyways)21:05
keithzgcxdvty: Windows performing better when minimizing and such now?21:05
cxdvtyseems so21:05
keithzgGood to hear.21:07
cxdvtyyes (:21:07
elfykeithzg: was in here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/09/%23ubuntu+1.html#t10:4621:07
xiphIs systemd here to stay now?21:08
lordievaderLikely, yes.21:10
xiphFinally! :-)21:10
lordievaderHehe, finally someone positive about systemd ;)21:11
keithzgelfy: Hmm, wonder what Chromebook he was running. But yeah, my own problem is sadly even lower level than that; still can't seem to get GRUB to load again, hrmmmm21:11
keithzgAha wait I was just being silly.21:11
cxdvtyi love it so far lordievader21:12
xiphI guess a lot of people are screaming about it, but I just wanted to come by and say that so far it has just worked fine for me.21:12
keithzgForgot --force (since grub, somewhat correctly, won't really install in the classic configuration on a drive using GPT).21:12
keithzgHeh my first experience with it was a complete disaster, although that was in Debian Jessie and I *did* open a bug report for it. My first ever actual Debian bug submission! https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=77826821:13
ubottuDebian bug 778268 in sane-utils "'Alias=saned' line causes problematic running of saned@.service" [Important,Open]21:13
cxdvtyCan you tweak kubuntu/ubuntu safely? ObrienDave21:13
keithzgActually, that's not quite true. My first direct experience with systemd has been with SailfishOS, and it's been quite great there.21:13
cxdvty!utopic21:13
ubottuUbuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) is the current release of Ubuntu. Download at http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.10 - Read the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseNotes21:13
cxdvty!Android21:14
elfycxdvty: please21:14
cxdvtydang wheres the android channel21:14
cxdvtyelfy: Trying to find out where android is21:15
cxdvtyelfy: I put utopic cuz thats what i was thinking about but i meand android d:21:15
elfythen look in the server > list of channels21:15
lordievaderI've had mixed experiences. On (K)Ubuntu the first time it went very smooth. On Gentoo it was a disaster. Another (K)Ubuntu netboot has problems with the rootfs.21:15
lordievader!alis | cxdvty21:15
ubottucxdvty: alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu* or /msg alis list *http*21:15
cxdvtyjoin #freenode21:17
cxdvtyforgot the slash21:17
ObrienDavecxdvty, up to a point. i try to NOT tweak too much21:19
keithzgPackage management is your friend for tweaking. The important thing is to know where your user's config files for something are. Once you know that, and are willing to do purges and reinstalls of packages, you're *generally* pretty safe.21:24
keithzgBut I'm the kind of guy who, when things break, goes "oooh, interesting!", so take that with a grain of salt ;)21:24
cxdvtyok21:25
lordievaderkeithzg: That is the fun part, right, when things break :P21:28
cxdvtyanyone use ubuntu touch?21:29
cxdvty??21:30
elfyon a nexus7 I am21:30
cxdvtyHows the battery21:30
cxdvtydoes sms and phone calls work21:30
cxdvtyWhat is the app store like?21:31
cxdvtySnapchat and others available?21:31
elfynot looked - not had it long21:31
cxdvtyok but do phone plans work on it21:33
keithzgUsed Ubuntu Touch a bit on a Nexus 4, seems nice and stable but functionally far behind Android and SailfishOS (the latter is what I normally boot my Nexus 4 into). Still, I check in from time to time and it seems to be coming along nicely enough.21:33
keithzgHmmm, just upgraded to systemd now on my 15.04 Chromebook. Now don't get the display manager coming up, just the systemd boot listing with mostly OK's but a bunch of FAILED lines too.21:34
cxdvtyi didnt have any probs21:36
cxdvtybrb switching to ubuntu21:36
keithzg...hmmm, tried to pipe "systemctl --failed" to pastebinit, but apparently I don't have that installed. So tried to, but it seems to think /var/lib/dpkg/lock is read-only.21:37
keithzgYet mount shows / as mounted rw21:37
keithzgYeah, that's weird, any attempt I make at writing to the root partition fails, even though mount claims that / is mounted read-write.21:38
keithzgDoes that happen to sound like your rootfs problem, lordievader?21:39
lordievaderkeithzg: Yes.21:41
lordievaderkeithzg: 'sudo mount -o remount,rw /' fixes that.21:41
lordievaderBut the more annoying part is in the initramfs. It will mount and umount the root fs a whole number of times before continueing.21:42
keithzglordievader: Hmm, seems to boot pretty instantly for me (and then stop for ages there because of the lack of rw), and then when I remount it loads lightdm without any visible delay.22:19
lordievaderkeithzg: Is your rootfs on nfs?22:19
keithzglordievader: Nope, just good ol' ext422:19
lordievaderMy root is on nfs ;)22:19
keithzgahhh, I can see how a delay that's imperceptable on my end might end up being . . . not so for you ;)22:20
keithzgMy output of systemctl --failed looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10571118/22:21
lordievaderGuess I should do that sometime on that host...22:21
keithzgAny quick way to restart all failed services?22:26
k1lfor me its only ntp.service that failed22:27
cxdvtyHey guys :D23:33
cxdvtyObrienDave know anything about ipod touch and itunes?23:46
ObrienDaveoh heavens no23:50
k1lif you want a compatible hardware buy compatible hardware :) and no, the apple stuff is one of the most un-open one23:51
cxdvtyI am gonna port android to my ipod touch but i forgot my passcode23:55

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