=== chriadam|away is now known as chriadam [01:04] Help with Nexus 7 | http://askubuntu.com/q/596167 === aaron_ is now known as ahoneybun === uuhimhere is now known as CloudFlare_mirag === CloudFlare_mirag is now known as CloudFlareMirage [03:28] morning guys [03:29] candycrush starts and gives me a white page, think its related to the ads [03:29] anyone else has this issue? === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun === CloudFlareMirage is now known as Unbreakable === marcusto_ is now known as marcustomlinson === chriadam is now known as chriadam|away [08:00] Excuse me, could anyone explain how voice flow from modem to my ear in Ubuntu touch, please. [08:10] good morning [09:01] hi [09:03] can anybody tell me if it's possible to install ubuntu touch on a bq aquaris 4.5e android phone? [09:03] they are sold with ubuntu pre-installed on them [09:03] pete-woods, you there? [09:04] pineaux, look at the bq site, they might offer an ubuntu image there [09:04] jgdx: yep [09:04] pineaux, there is a user around sometimes (his nick is "studio_" ) who managed such an install [09:04] pete-woods, I am looking at your nm mock, again :), and had a question. Why does not AddAndActivateConnection call AddActiveConnection? [09:05] you could wait for him and ask how he did that [09:05] thanks [09:06] jgdx: it probably should. we obviously just don't use that codepath in our tests [09:07] pete-woods, okay, I can add that. [09:07] jgdx: feel free to make a pull request onto my branch :) [09:08] ogra [09:08] ogra: can't seem to find an ubuntu image on the bq site [09:08] pete-woods, I'd rather not block your PR. It's good, let's get it in there. :) [09:09] jgdx: I guess, but martin is still too busy to look at it, as far as I can tell [09:09] so there may well be time to get your addition in there [09:10] pete-woods, right. === uuhimhere is now known as MooCowFarkMilk [09:39] Good morning all; happy Friday the 13th, and happy Digital Learning Day! :-D === JMulholland_ is now known as JMulholland [10:10] hello! I need guidance to get 3D acceleration to work with the mir display server with the help of libhybris with a mali 400 gpu [10:11] I have a pcduino3 board with a AllWinner A20 SoC [10:12] zzarr: might be better asking mir questions in #ubuntu-mir [10:12] thank you, I will do :) [10:15] does anybody have experience with porting Touch to a bq aquaris 4.5e ANDROID phone? [10:16] yes [10:16] :p [10:16] you do? [10:17] so sailfishos vs ubuntu-phone [10:17] which is better [10:17] MooCowFarkMilk: since you ask in #ubuntu-touch: ubuntu-phone [10:18] pineaux: look at the wiki pages linked in topic. there is a port for the 4.5 [10:18] if i had mad a server wide broadcast ? [10:18] MooCowFarkMilk, try it! [10:18] science it up [10:19] jgdx, IF; meaning an implication that a certain level of unbiasedness was associated to the question [10:19] :P [10:19] basically what is the advantage of up over sfos [10:19] MooCowFarkMilk, we've established that there is a bias [10:20] jgdx, yes but i would like to assume your biasness is biassed therefore ultimately unibassed [10:20] alskdjf [10:20] ah double bias [10:20] not sure it cancels out though [10:20] k1l_ I might have overlooked it, but couldn't find it [10:20] yeah like a negative [10:20] think it's more like + [10:21] no it scalarizes the vectorial component of bias leading to magnitude of result [10:21] *magnitude-of [10:22] well? [10:22] sonic says he's still waiting [10:22] what are the key features that up has over sfos [10:23] MooCowFarkMilk: did you read the news the last month? :) [10:23] e.g. it doesnt leach off the mer project and not give back? [10:23] scopes! [10:23] scopes? [10:23] come on [10:23] lol [10:24] pineaux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices [10:25] MooCowFarkMilk: that means you did not read anything about ubuntu touch so far? [10:26] XD [10:26] doing a google gives me this [10:26] https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jollausers.com%2F2013%2F07%2Fwhy-sailfish-is-better-as-a-modern-os-here-is-a-comparison%2F [10:26] but thats biased [10:27] so as established i would like to scalarize the bias to form a magnitude-of opinion [10:28] MooCowFarkMilk: so you really want to here from the ubuntu touch guys: nahh, dont go for ubuntu touch. go for the way better sailfish os? :X [10:28] uhh actually the opposite [10:28] scopes! [10:28] copies [10:28] go and search if sailfish os got that :) [10:28] scopes [10:29] wiki [10:29] plz [10:29] /topic [10:30] you only need to look out for a mwc hands-on tbh. [10:30] mwc [10:30] ? [10:30] oh and whatever happened to docking [10:30] is it still obn the cards [10:31] mobile wold congress in spain, just happened. if you care about mobile phones than that is your thing. like the apple-show-thingy for apple users [10:33] pffft only androids buy phones... real men make their own : https://sailpi.wordpress.com/ [10:35] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dpfHYpfEXY&hd=1 [10:35] why does the interface remind me of ffos? [10:36] " but! Whilst Ubuntu is very beautiful and gorgeous, it reminds me of Android in terms of heaviness." [10:37] how can something that runs on linux be as heavy as a java userspace virtual machine === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [10:57] MooCowFarkMilk, both android and ut runs on linux. [11:00] jgdx, yes but one is a collection of programs that run in user/kernel space the other is a bunch of programs that run on a program that runs in userspace [11:00] amiright? [11:04] MooCowFarkMilk, that sentence doesnt make any sense [11:05] all programs run on top of other programs ... that in the end run on top of a kernel [11:13] are the ut builds on the BQ E4.5 licensed under GPLv3 or some other canonical issued license [11:13] well, it is a normal ubuntu underneath, so it has multiple licenses [11:14] all bits canonical developed on its own are GPLv3 in that [11:20] why is there no default app written for email? [11:22] well, there is a gmail webapp ... and there is dekko (a very powerful mail client) in the store === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:25] ogra_, why is it not built in by default? both android and ios have default email clients [11:25] it is a smartphone after all [11:26] it ships gmail and you can install dekko from the store if you want some native mail app [11:26] not sure what the problem here is [11:28] that the user experience out of the box pales to whats already out there [11:28] why ? [11:29] the user experience is a lot different to what is already out there (and imho classes better) [11:29] because the default software suite is deficient [11:29] lol [11:32] so on one hand you dont want heaviness, but on the other hand you complain that we dont ship enough software ? [11:32] doesnt the manufacturer choose what apps are preinstalled on their devices? [11:32] yes [11:32] probably meizu will want to ship dekko by default, who knows [11:34] (it is quite big though, since it is a fully fledged mail client) [11:34] ogra_, its a quad core 1.7g machine; if the email client kills that than its more than deficient its bloatware [11:35] MooCowFarkMilk, huh ? i mean in disk size [11:38] ogra_, disk size, memory footprint , resource hogging everything point is if youre saying that the reason email is excluded from the ubuntu touch vanilla is because of heaviness in any of those areas then its not that well written of an app is it? [11:42] there is no "reason" [11:42] i'm just saying it has a big disk footprint [11:42] MooCowFarkMilk: that is not fair. so if there was a standard mail app, a very slim one, but lacking some features you would be ranting that its lacking some features. wouldnt you? [11:43] you cant have both ... slimness of the install and "all these apps someone will potentially want to use" ... this is why we have an app store [11:43] i mean look at thunderbird and geany on the desktop :) [11:43] yeah but surely K9mail from android couldve been ported [11:43] ? [11:44] or something along those lines [11:44] i would like a small and fast email client like geany, but all i found did lack the service and features i am used to. so i stay on heavy thunderbird [11:44] uhh k9 on droid works great for me [11:45] MooCowFarkMilk: so there you go :) no one so far did want to make a port, so gogogogogogogogo [11:45] MooCowFarkMilk, i find dekko a lot better than k9 [11:45] dekko is 18M download right now. Not massive. [11:45] but yeah, port it, so we can compare ;) [11:45] if i bought a fuckin phone the last thing i would ever expect is a "go f do it yourself or live with crap" [11:45] cmmon [11:45] popey, heh, gmail is surely a little smaller :) [11:46] MooCowFarkMilk, please mind your wordin [11:46] g [11:46] MooCowFarkMilk: who said dekko is not working? [11:46] k1l_, see discussion above on performance [11:46] MooCowFarkMilk: i think you want a android, just without java?! [11:47] You're extrapolating incorrect info from what people are saying. [11:47] MooCowFarkMilk, whats your issue with our performance, also on which device ? [11:47] please file bugs :) [11:47] its like the users wanting a windows, just without MS. that is not what linux wants to be. neither does ubuntu-touch in your android without java wish [11:49] MooCowFarkMilk, we're always happy to have conversations about Ubuntu and others in here, but please, flip flopping between here and a Jolla channel (as you have been) to generate arguments is a little childish. [11:50] popey, it is friday after all :) [11:50] true. [11:50] and even the 13th :) [11:50] That I don't care about. My house is 12A because the builders were superstitious and refuse to number is 13 (it's between 12 and 14) [11:50] 13th? oh wait. [11:50] LOL [11:50] I want to re-number it, but I'm not allowed [11:51] haha [11:51] popey: give your house a name, the name "Thirteen". [11:51] This I have considered :) [11:51] heh [11:51] Wifey is worried about the future value of the house being impacted :) [11:51] I would just refuse to sell to superstitious people :) [11:52] K9 is only 2.3MB [11:53] popey, so youre saying canonical not only wishes to have the freedom to relicense contributions made to MIR overriding GPLv3 in proprietary forms BUT that they would also like to have the ability to limit an individuals ability to freely associate with whichever channel on irc if that user inhabits one of its own? [11:53] I didnt say anything of the sort. [11:53] oh ok [11:53] Stop trying to stir trouble. [11:53] just checking [11:54] I didn't mention licensing at all. [11:54] what trouble? [11:54] 23541 phablet 20 0 276608 54032 24908 S 0.0 5.5 0:09.45 dekko [11:54] good i just thought you were implying that dual licensing applied to individual presence on irc [11:54] well, you are obvously trolling and trying to generate arguments ... [11:54] Again, I didnt talk about it. [11:54] ie if youre on ubuntu we can tell you how to behave and act in non-ubuntu [11:55] (which is ok on a friday and i find it entertaining, but not everyone does) [11:56] and whats that all about anyways, since its friday, the user agreement to allow the freedom to override GPLv3? [11:56] in MIR [11:57] user agreement ? [11:57] there surely is no agreement anywhere that users need to comply to [11:58] at least not for code from canonical [11:58] (and why would users care at all anyway) [11:59] Ubuntu Contributor's License Agreement [12:00] lets just ignore that [12:00] because its friday [12:00] why would users care about licensing anyways? [12:00] so why gplv3? [12:01] just dump it on BSD or i dont know... a SCEA license? :s [12:01] We (as a company) have standardised on GPLv3 [12:02] and yet you require contributors to MIR to sign an agreement that gives you the freedom to relicense submitted work as proprietary ? [12:05] if im helping you make your product better why would you require me to give you complete control over my improvements(unless im being paid by you to do so)? [12:05] and not to mention i had to actually shelve out my own hard earned cash for your product to begin with [12:06] It's not "complete control". The source is GPLv3 and freely available on launchpad, so you didn't pay for that. [12:08] MooCowFarkMilk, the CLA has nothing to do with users [12:09] yup but if that improvement gets applied to another piece of proprietary software that wouldnt have existed without my improvements to begin with; why would I (or anyone for that matter) have to pay to use it? [12:09] everyone's a user [12:09] everyone [12:09] yes, if you are a developer and want to send code for inclusion you have to hand this code over to the owner [12:09] that is all the CLA is about [12:09] (you retain copyright though) [12:09] right [12:10] still, only relevant for such people [12:10] and since we have quite a developer community it looks like it doesnt do any harm :) [12:11] else people wouldnt contribute so much [12:11] for some reason i think you have the community that you have now because you didnt have the CLA that you do now [12:12] MooCowFarkMilk, note that nobody in this channel has any influence on the CLA ... ranting here wont change a thing [12:12] ogra_, then you agree? [12:12] no [12:12] you know this isnt a rant [12:13] well sorta ok [12:13] its friday [12:13] ;) [12:13] we have a smaller community today because we stopped paying a bunch of people to fly around the world every 6 months into fancy 5 star hotels ... [12:13] they got pissed and started to rant on blogs and in the press [12:14] dropping UDS got us where we are, not the CLA [12:14] yeah last i checked shuttleworth's still heading canonical .... [12:14] the CLA existed long before people started complaining about it [12:14] he never headed canonical [12:14] yeah not on something as big as the display server [12:14] he is an employee [12:14] (for sure one with big influence :) ) [12:15] ogra_: that's somewhat disappointing (that people got so upset about that), people should go to fosdem more often, lo-fi, high output [12:15] yeah and steve jobs didnt head apple it was the main stakeholders ? [12:15] our CEO is jane silber (nearly since the beginning) ... [12:15] :s [12:15] anyways [12:15] point is [12:15] Stskeeps, totally ! [12:15] time will tell [12:16] Stskeeps, hey hows its going ircbot [12:16] MooCowFarkMilk, anyway, you cant really compare ubuntu and sailfish ... the targets are completely different [12:16] not omparing [12:16] you did above [12:16] i asked [12:16] for [12:16] a [12:16] second [12:16] opinion [12:16] since [12:16] all [12:16] i [12:16] youe enter key is broken ... [12:16] had [12:17] to [12:17] go [12:17] by [12:17] was [12:17] the [12:17] seems it got mixed up with the spacebar [12:17] article [12:17] written [12:17] by [12:17] sailfishos [12:17] invested [12:17] people [12:17] could you stop this please [12:18] Stskeeps, hey irc bot what do you say quiet/kick/ban? [12:19] ogra_: despite the google hangouts, i actually like the new uds format more; probably a good candidate for webrtc one day [12:19] Stskeeps, definitely ... [12:20] wow a display of cross-project collaborative talk; what a beautiful statement of foss spirit [12:20] i dont like the new UDS more though ... the most important things at UDS *always* happend on the corridor or in the bar for me ... (like having super interesting conversations that in the end were the base for new technology) [12:21] (especially in the bar for ogra :p) [12:21] lol [12:21] didrocks, not to forget the smokers corner ;) [12:21] ogra_: hallway track.. waiting for the moment the internet figures out how to do that [12:21] yeah [12:21] and bar track ;) [12:21] ogra_: all you guys, addicted! :) [12:21] and lovin it :) [12:23] MooCowFarkMilk, sailfish and ubunntu phone works together in a bunch of components ... we are not competing :) [12:23] (probably our business depts. are ... not sure, but i think not even that) [12:33] also, we get inspiration from eachother [12:33] I have blatently stolen/borrowed/been-inspired by https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris [12:33] and made a version for us [12:34] ogra_, yeah i heard w/o sailfish's libhybris we probably wouldnt even be here; though I wonder what the situation would have been if libhybris was licensed under a proprietary license as mandated by a user agreement not unlike the CLA? [12:34] hmmm ... :) [12:34] without hybris we would have used another solution or developed one ourselves [12:35] oh im pretty sure you would have ;) [12:35] it just happens that this was the most elegant solution and already existing [12:35] and prohibited some one like jolla from using without a fee it via a proprietary license ;) [12:35] definitely the cross-project foss spirit! [12:38] if it would have been proprietary or costed a fee we wouldnt have used it [12:38] if jolla had a CLA, we would have signed it though [12:38] like we need to sign it for glibc or gcc [12:38] without hybris we would have used another solution or developed one ourselves [12:39] without hybris we would have used another solution or developed one ourselves [12:39] and prohibited some one like jolla from using without a fee it via a proprietary license ;) [12:39] definitely the cross-project foss spirit! [12:39] ?? [12:39] why would we ask for a fee ? [12:39] because you can [12:39] its the implication of the CLA [12:39] show me an example where we ever did [12:39] no [12:39] doesnt matter [12:40] youre going on a new direction [12:40] not at all [12:40] we are going the same direction the FSF goes [12:40] and did so long before us [12:40] MooCowFarkMilk: the CLA isn't just about making things proprietary, it also allows you to relicense under other open source licenses, which becomes extremely difficult for any project without a CLA style agreement, as you then have to get the individual agreement of every contributor at the time of the change (instead of doing it at the time of the contribution) [12:41] Elleo, yes the GPL covers that doesnt it? as far as ogra_ 's FSF direction is concerned? [12:41] MooCowFarkMilk: yeah with a beautiful version x or later clause.. and later can be mean an entirely different license [12:41] MooCowFarkMilk: no, the GPL has its "Or later" clause, but that doesn't help with GPL incompatible but still Free/Open licenses [12:42] ogra_, ok so you got a little ahead of yourself when you went down that fsf claim [12:42] did i ? [12:43] we are going the same direction the FSF goes [12:43] MooCowFarkMilk: the FSF definitely have copyright assignments as a normal part of their operations, I know because I've signed them for my work on GNU FM in the past [12:43] many free projects use CLAs, they just dont get badmouthed for it [12:43] canonical is by no means special here [12:44] MooCowFarkMilk: licenses can turn invalid when they contain violating claims/guarantees or whatever.. and those assessments depend on local legislation. So you decide: stay operational in the future or gamble. [12:44] nobody's bad mouthing; if what i have said above so far is considered badmouthing than canonical needs to do some soul searching [12:44] MooCowFarkMilk: here are the FSF's reasons for copyright assignment: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.html [12:44] nobody said you were [12:44] many others do though [12:44] right [12:44] then why bring it in a conversationg with me? [12:45] its part of the story [12:45] diluting the message of the conversation? [12:45] by going on tangents? [12:45] MooCowFarkMilk, if you want toi get into the car business, you cant with GPLv3 software ... and even with v2 it is very blurry if there is the "or later versions" clause [12:45] Is this the full day troll or just an hour? [12:46] MooCowFarkMilk, the GPL requires that you as an enduser can always freely re-install your OS on the hardware ... car manufacturers will not allow that (even by law in some countries) [12:46] MooCowFarkMilk: so an additional reason appears to be that it's incredibly difficult to defend against GPL violations without copyright assignment (otherwise you need the cooperation of all the contributors) [12:46] MooCowFarkMilk, if canonical would ever go into the car business with something based on ubuntu phone, it would have to re-license the code under bsd or wahtever [12:47] MooCowFarkMilk, that is what the CLA was intended for (beyond being able to enforce GLP law more easily through a single entity) [12:47] stop diluting the conversation with ambigouosly defined analogies; what aspect of the car business? [12:47] any ... [12:47] Yes everyone! Stop using facts! [12:48] i like it how we live in a day and age where repeating the same thing over and over again makes it a fact [12:49] who is repeating what ? [12:49] ubuntu car [12:49] as if it was a reality [12:49] the CLA has as many positive aspects as it has negative aspects ... [12:50] * Stskeeps likes CLA for some purposes, not for others [12:50] Ubuntu touch how to get HTML 5 app template running? | http://askubuntu.com/q/596310 [12:50] yeah, it has its drawbacks [12:50] MooCowFarkMilk: actually .. it isnt that unreal.. no car oem wants to open the gates for android in cars [12:50] as well as its advantages [12:50] (tesla has ubuntu in it) [12:50] anpok_, look up the guy who invented the diesel engine [12:50] right [12:50] or likewise ios or windows.. [12:51] and tesla doesnt really want you to re-install it either :) [12:51] dilute [12:51] dilute [12:51] indeed, and get quite uppity if you fiddle with it [12:51] dilute [12:51] so all of them would like to use an alternative os solution [12:51] enough nonsense [12:51] +1 [12:52] damn, that means i need to go back to get work done [12:52] hah [12:52] man... [12:52] discussion is _fine_ but jeez. [12:52] heh [12:52] and why diesel? [12:52] .. whatever [12:52] dilute! [12:52] etc [12:53] if you dilute the diesel, not sure how you car will appreciate it :) [12:53] depnds with what you dilute it [12:54] kerosene might speed you up :) [12:55] heh, I wouldn't play the chemist though :p === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:23] Excuse me, could anyone explain how voice flow from modem to my ear in Ubuntu touch, please. [13:30] peat-psuwit: what exactly you want to know? [13:31] it basically happens via a module in pulseaudio [13:31] that changes the mode in the audio hal, which makes then the hal to enable the link between the modem and the speaker [13:33] rsalveti, So, the voice go straight from the modem to the speaker? [13:34] peat-psuwit: yup [13:34] to avoid copying the audio around [13:35] rsalveti, That surprise me. But pulseaudio need to signal audio HAL right? How? [13:36] rsalveti: who owns system-image server, is that stgraber ? [13:36] peat-psuwit: yup, there is a module in pulseaudio that talks to the audio hal [13:36] JoeyChan: is in china and getting 404's on phones. [13:36] peat-psuwit: you can see that by running pactl list on a device running touch [13:37] popey: in my phone, a dialog said "Installation failed" [13:37] popey: yeah, stgraber and barry [13:37] ok. [13:38] JoeyChan: might want to file a bug against https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image [13:38] hello has someone any news about the ubuntu porting for new devices? [13:39] popey: will do thx [13:39] because I own a Samsung Galaxy s4 mini, but i don't know how to port Ubuntu [13:40] rsalveti, Thank you! [13:41] harminuriel, see the channel topic, there is a link to the porting guide [13:42] i read the porting guide, but I don't know anything so I was curious to know if someone has news about Samsung devices [13:42] well, if someone has, i would expect them to put their port onto the devices wikipage [13:42] !devices [13:42] You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices [13:43] but not everyone does ... perhaps yu find some info in the xda forums [13:43] Ok! thank you! :) [13:47] rsalveti, BTW, who signal pulseaudio that there's a call? [13:48] ofono ... most likely [13:48] peat-psuwit: ofono is our modem manager, then on top we have telepathy-ofono, that talks with pulse in order to change the audio mode [13:48] when the call is active [13:48] so telepathy-ofono is the one talking with both ofono and pulse [13:50] rsalveti, Thank you again. [13:50] Helloo everyone! :) === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:52] Anyone have idea, how can I debug system hanging when connecting adb or ssh? (adb sometimes work for few seconds at spinning logo boot stage) [13:57] seb128, with battery times of 2.5 days i wonder if we shouldnt change the scale at http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/screenshot20154112_204152865.png to show more than 24h [13:58] ogra_, talk to mpt, we are just following the design [13:58] ogra_, and 2.5 days, really? [13:58] well, i didnt use it much, but yeah [13:59]