[06:59] good morning [08:43] mvo_, hey, do you know what command should be used to install a click manually on a device? ;-) click install? or pkon? [08:48] seb128, pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted blah.click [08:48] no sudo ... [08:48] ogra_, thanks [08:48] hum, IIRC colin was strongly against using pkcon directly [08:49] didrocks, what instead? [08:49] this is what we all use nowadays :) [08:49] ogra_: colin +1 it? [08:49] seb128: looking on logs [08:49] and the recommended method ... [08:49] no idea, i didnt know he was against it ... i think he initially gave me the sequence [08:50] morning! [08:51] ah, it was the other way around [08:51] 2013-10-22 12:36:00cjwatsondidrocks: please don't use click install (unless you're very careful with its arguments), use pkcon install-local [08:51] ok, so confirmed :) [08:51] seb128: pkcon [08:51] seb128: but click install --user=your-user foo.click is the same [08:51] (IIRC, it was when then we tweaked the help to state to use the right command) [08:52] mvo_, thanks [08:52] didrocks, thanks as well [08:52] seb128: its just the "--user=" thats added automatically in the pkcon and the nicer auth via pkexec [08:52] seb128: sorry for the false alarm, prefered to double check :) [08:53] mvo_, k, usually I use qtcreator but on that project click is grumpy, not sure why (running the same command from the command line works, where it hits an unicode error from qtcreator) [08:53] didrocks, no worry, thanks for double checking ;-) [08:54] ok [09:06] goedemorgen! [09:07] good morning Laney [09:07] goedemorgen Laney, hoe gaat het? [09:07] hey mlankhorst [09:08] morning Laney! [09:08] seb128: Laney: do you mind testing the privacy capplet for whoopsie enablement/disablement? (Checking that report_metrics has the right value in /etc/whoopsie now and if the whoospie job is started/enabled as you expect playing with the checkbox?) [09:08] * didrocks can live with a double checking [09:09] of course, with latest whoopsie/whoopsie-preferences from Friday [09:09] hey Laney mlankhorst [09:09] didrocks, sure can do, let me upgrade first though [09:09] I've had a fun weekend, full of horseback riding and hacking on a arm device and bringing up xorg-server :D [09:09] okay [09:10] thanks! [09:10] mlankhorst: imagine I said some great dutch :P [09:12] hehehe [09:12] can we add the tegra as release arch for warty? :P [09:12] jetson tk1 [09:14] morning desktopers [09:14] happy Monday willcooke! [09:14] morning [09:14] normality is restored, it's raining in London [09:14] hey willcooke [09:14] phew! [09:14] still sunny here! [09:15] willcooke, hey, how is london? [09:15] morning seb128 - cold and wet. Plus I had to get up early. :( [09:15] :-( [09:15] the cultural and economic capital of the united kingdom [09:15] it's a great place to live and work [09:15] goooooooo london [09:15] lol [09:15] :D [09:15] sounds really like Paris :) [09:16] * seb128 thinks we should make Laney commute to London every day to work at the office [09:16] +1 [09:16] my old landlord did that [09:16] he would get a 6am train every morning [09:16] that's crazy [09:16] see, he's already getting used to the idea ;-) [09:16] and he can pair with his previous landloard [09:17] I have the fcitx thing in the panel for a few days now [09:17] well if I can get a train at 9am and count working there as part of the day [09:17] also if they pay [09:17] then sure why not [09:17] will it go away or should I uninstall something? [09:17] larsu: did you get the latest update? [09:17] "latest"? [09:18] ah, new one coming in on this dist-upgrade [09:18] check you don't have /etc/xdg/autostart/fcitx* after that [09:19] I don't. Thanks! [09:20] why are indicators in there? [09:21] you mean why is there a fcitx indicator? [09:21] no. all other indicators are in there [09:22] for non upstart sessions [09:22] head -> desk [09:23] Laney: hm, they seem to be started unconditionally now [09:23] in unity at least [09:23] they are shadowed by /usr/share/upstart/xdg/autostart/ [09:24] that's very un-xdg... [09:24] * larsu should stop looking into this [09:24] it means you can de-xdgise things if you want to upstartise them instead [09:25] I'd rather have them d-bus activate again [09:25] no kidding [09:26] how will this work when we move away from upstart in the session? [09:27] I guess it could be ported fairly as-is, have all of the indicators start after the renderer [09:27] but it would probably be more sensible to use bus activation ... [09:29] Laney: The Cultural and economic capital ah you mean Birmingham it's as cultural as London and way more economic ;) [09:30] ha [09:30] everyone does keep going on about that new library [09:31] (seb128 /) happyaron / attente_: Are you planning to get fcitx itself out of the default install? [09:31] and installed via language-selector [09:33] Laney, why/how is it on the default install? [09:35] not sure the path that got it installed for me, let's see [09:35] Laney, we dropped the u-s-d/u-c-c recommends on friday, that was supposed to be enough to stop pulling it in [09:36] oh neat, maybe it worked already then? [09:36] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/pending/vivid-desktop-amd64.manifest [09:36] ya [09:36] nice [09:36] seems not there [09:37] yeah, you should only have the libs now [09:37] dear autoremove [09:37] why will you not uninstall it? [09:37] * larsu was about to ask the same [09:38] that's kind of weird indeed, it's never been seeded directly, right? [09:38] (only child package of a metapackage are not marked auto) [09:38] I forgot how to see if it's marked auto or not [09:39] the only way I know how to is to open syanptic :( [09:39] Laney: apt-mark showauto | grpe … [09:39] grep* [09:39] neat [09:40] hum, it's marked auto for me, so makes sense [09:40] what's keeping it then… [09:40] same for me [09:40] if only aptitude why worked… :p [09:40] apt-get remove only wants to remove fcitx [09:41] so, I guess it's a recommends [09:41] aptitude would say that [09:41] it's just telling me about a suggests [09:41] :| [09:41] same [09:41] but it only stops at the first relationship [09:42] IIRC [09:42] so, there can be a stronger one which is hidden [09:47] ah [09:48] didrocks: sudo apt-get -o Apt::AutoRemove::SuggestsImportant=false autoremove [09:49] SuggestsImportant? [09:49] * Laney giggles at that wanting to remove cmake and schroot [09:50] even suggests keeps autoremove from removing packages [09:50] I wouldn't expect that [09:50] (as an user) [09:51] oh, indeed, it's set to true starting apt 0.8.15.3 (2012) [09:52] but no bug linked to the changelog about why that changes [09:52] sounds weird to me, and it's David K. who did the change, can't even blame mvo :) [09:54] Laney: FWIW, it doesn't want for me to remove cmake, but I didn't mark it auto (I guess because I played quite a lot with it, so patched, manually installed…) [09:54] ya it'll depend on how you installed stuff [09:54] surprised nothing is keeping schroot for me [09:55] I would expect click or the sdk would [09:55] * Laney coughs [09:55] totally have those installed... :) [09:55] ;) [09:55] I guess seeing your debian usage, you can safely mark it as manual [09:56] I try to keep most dev stuff inside the lxc container actually [09:56] probably can remove these [09:56] hey [09:56] Laney: oh nice ;) [09:56] is https://code.launchpad.net/~noskcaj/gnome-menus/3.13.3/+merge/250879 something which should be uploaded? [09:56] also... how about https://code.launchpad.net/~happyaron/ubuntu-seeds/lp-1430893/+merge/252632? [09:57] dholbach: the second shouldn't, we just took extra steps to not have it installed by default :) [09:57] or maybe seb128 discussed it more? ^ [09:57] let me 'on hold' that one [09:57] sure :) [09:57] or WIP, whatevs [09:57] on hold which? [09:58] yours [09:58] no idea about gnome-menus [09:58] u-s-d/u-c-c shouldn't pull in all fcitx by default, but seeding it is a must to have it default for Chinese people [09:58] didrocks, not discussed more no [09:59] or they get ibus after installation [09:59] if users open language-selector, it will write per-user configuration of input method, that will be ibus [09:59] even user never touched settings about input method [10:01] seb128 wonders how do we proceed? [10:01] Don't you want to have language-selector set it up right? [10:02] I want it to be set up just out-of-box, without hurting people of other languages [10:02] happyaron, I don't understand enough about how the im-config/language-selector thing is used atm to answer you, but we don't want fcitx on the iso [10:02] seb128: why [10:03] relying on language-selector almost means the default isn't changed for anyone [10:03] check-language-support is run from the installer [10:04] many people don't connect to internet while installation [10:04] happyaron, because we don't want 2 IM stacks on the image [10:04] seb128: that might make the transition never been evaluated [10:05] last week we tried to see there's impact on image space, and apparently the answer is no... [10:08] FWIW there's 'ship-live' to put it on the CD but not installed [10:08] at least I think that's right [10:08] ok [10:09] how to get that installed (from CD) for Chinese users? [10:09] it makes it available via apt [10:10] it's highly appreciated if we can make it work without using any internet connection [10:10] not sure if that would be acceptable, still taking up space on the image in that case [10:11] space won't grow if we remove ibus-pinyin and its dependency [10:11] that used to be default for Chinese [10:11] * Laney nods [10:12] I think let's have the ship-live change [10:12] installing if needed via check-language-support feels nicer to me [10:12] but someone would need to do the work, so... :) [10:12] then, happyaron needs to ensure that chinese users get it installed via check-language-support from the CD [10:12] and we check size [10:12] happyaron, k, fair enough [10:13] ok, I'll update the MP for seeds [10:13] and, is check-language-support in ubiquity? [10:13] dpkg -S check-language-support [10:13] language-selector-common: /usr/bin/check-language-support [10:13] ok [10:14] Laney: if we merge the seed, do we have some build time for kicking an image? (so that we don't forget and deal with the size check today) [10:14] ? [10:14] we grew ~ +3M with the libs already [10:15] probably want to check the ubiquity side first [10:15] Laney: don't want to check the image size first? [10:15] if we discover it's resulting in an unacceptable image size growth, I guess that stops the check-language-support hacking effort [10:15] what other option is there? [10:16] if you want to have it installed then it has to be on there somehow [10:16] keeping the existing? [10:16] we haven't remove ibus-pinyin/libpyzy yet [10:16] yeah [10:16] that's why I want us to check the image size [10:16] but for that, we need an image with the change [10:17] what I mean is [10:17] if we want to go with fcitx then we have to do this change [10:17] we're not going to say "too big, let's stick with ibus" [10:17] we could on the livecd [10:17] we don't install all langpacks there [10:17] well, that's what we told until now at least [10:17] right [10:17] the liveCD was never meant to be a solution for all users/locales [10:18] and there is kylin, contrary to other locales [10:18] well or rather there is a balance in cost/benefit [10:18] then you just have to change language-selector and not bother with this seeding stuff [10:18] if that's acceptable [10:19] but you say that all chinese users must be online to get a proper IM [10:19] before deciding on the seeding stuff, it would be nice to have the facts, in term of size [10:19] and then how do they type in the live session? [10:20] if we do ship-live, and remove ibus-pinyin, then no way to input in live session [10:21] no, if you do ship-live then language-selector installs it [10:21] if you *don't*, and have no internet, then out of luck indeed [10:21] you mean in live session, launguage-selector will install it on the fly? [10:22] not saying /target [10:22] I think l-s will work there [10:23] this all needs checking, which is an argument for getting a test image I guess :) [10:24] a bit confused what needs to be done... 1) ship-live 2) check-language-support, that's all I see [10:24] and check if these changes work for live session, right? [10:24] and get a test image to check both [10:24] check that ubiquity installs the right stuff [10:24] (size and changes) [10:24] the l-s changes are the ones in bug #1431337 or thereabouts [10:24] bug 1430893 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1431337 [FFe] Install Fcitx for Chinese users" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430893 [10:25] shall we get that FFe approved first? [10:25] you should be able to test that by installing an updated package in any current ubuntu desktop iso and running check-language-support -l zh_CN [10:25] then trying an installation with internet [10:26] don't think so, we need to know what the approach is first [10:26] ok [10:27] maybe scan ubiquity's code first to see what it does with check-language-support too [10:27] sure [10:28] hm [10:28] don't you have to restart the session to start using fcitx? [10:30] have to restart session to switch input method framework [10:31] sometimes it even needs reboot, because nowadays the session shutdown might not complete [10:32] so how useful is this stuff at all? [10:32] you don't really restart the live session [10:34] should only work if people select chinese on the initial boot screen, not useful if people switch after it boots up [10:34] in that case I don't think this approach works [10:35] because that screen won't run check-language-support [10:35] was it the same with the ibus plugin? [10:35] that's installed all the time [10:35] so will be there at startup [10:35] right, but if you switch after it boots up, did it load the IM? [10:36] it seems that for fcitx, even if you have it installed, it wouldn't work if you switch once you entered the session [10:41] about ibus plugin, it will work to switch among ibus plugins if ibus is started by im-config, same applies for fcitx. but the other framework that's not started by im-config won't work in the session. [10:42] when the latter situation happends, (if the second started framework is) ibus it will hang, and fcitx will quit. [10:44] maybe we do need to just seed it then [10:45] would be good if we could have things be removed from the installed system if they're not needed [10:45] oh, wait [10:46] maybe you can still do something like this with the 'live' seed [10:46] xnox: you here? [10:47] Laney: yes. [10:48] Laney: we can remove un-used things at the end of the install, and we can also have optional things on the cd that can be installed if needed. [10:49] xnox: It's 'remove fcitx if not chinese' basically [10:50] how would one install it then? it looks like fcitx is seeded everywhere hence is installed everywhere. [10:50] I was wondering if the live seed is good for that [10:50] + language-selector [10:51] we autoremove ubiquity and thing that haven't got marked as manually installed during installation.... ( i think ), or we can install things on target, from the iso pool. But then live session witll not have fcitx. [10:51] so the installer runs check-language-support which causes it to be kept on the target system [10:51] that's all good then. [10:51] but if you don't pick chinese then it's not kept [10:51] sane? [10:51] i think so. [10:52] neat [10:52] however installs in english and later enables chinese, should get incomplete language support prompt at some later point. [10:52] s/however/whoever/ [10:52] ya, as normal [10:53] the same method (pkg_depends) will do all cases [10:53] what about upgrades? [10:53] happyaron: if installed, simply remains. If not installed -> incomplete language support pop-up. [10:54] xnox: but l-s will write current IM to per-user config silently [10:54] that would mean "run_im ibus" in ~/.xinputrc [10:55] * xnox only knows about packages. I have no idea how things work w.r.t. ibus et.al. [10:55] :) [10:55] if someone's user has selected ibus then you shouldn't be touching that [10:56] happyaron: does language support gui do the right thing _today_ ? e.g. installation in english -> switch to chinese, and vice versa. [10:56] xnox: yes, but it does not have any idea about IM framework transition [10:57] happyaron: well, then that's a bug on it's own, no? [10:58] Laney: l-s will write .xinputrc whenever its started, even if user doesn't touch IM settings [10:58] xnox: think so [10:58] what are you proposing to do about that? [10:59] I proposed not writing per-user default if not selected by the user, but Gunnar has his rationale of doing that [10:59] which prevents transition actually [11:00] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1430893/comments/13 [11:00] Ubuntu bug 1430893 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Install Fcitx for Chinese users" [Undecided,Confirmed] [11:01] * Laney nods [11:01] I don't think you should be changing it for exisitng users, just make it do the new thing for new configurations [11:03] so we don't deal with upgrades, just new installations [11:04] If they're using iBus then they're presumably happy with it already [11:04] or they would have switched themselves [11:04] (is it iBus?) [11:04] (or ibus) [11:04] fair enough [11:04] IBus [11:05] I'm writing a comment on the bug [11:05] thanks [11:06] somehow I find #1431337 an easy bug number to remember ;-) [11:06] woah, system settings has a help/quit menu item. Don't let mpt see that [11:07] I mean, don’t let him see that [11:09] Laney: yeah but it's a bit elitist [11:09] literatist [11:12] happyaron: done [11:12] see if that matches your understanding [11:12] Trevinho: are we now always showing the app menu? [11:15] Laney: almostly, proposed locales would be zh_* though [11:15] ok [11:16] * Laney wonders why his pc lost dns [11:16] Laney: you on vivid? [11:16] yes [11:17] Laney: that's why then, happens on the phone too so I would guess at the latest network-manager [11:17] got a bug #? [11:17] nm's actually not supposed to be doing anything on this machine [11:18] Laney: just trying to confirm that it isn't the new QT5.4.1 stuff before I file if there isn't one [11:18] oh it's back [11:19] after restarting resolvconf [11:19] some update clobbered my /etc/resolv.conf [11:24] moin [11:24] Laney: seeds updated, status changed to Needs review [11:26] ok, thanks, let me look quickly [11:29] happyaron: in some hours we'll be able to build a new ISO with these changes [11:30] once "apt-cache show fcitx" says Task: ubuntu-live [11:32] ok [11:32] thanks [12:04] dobey: any complaints if I sponsor your intltool to debian instead of vivid? === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [12:37] Laney: do you think my titlebar branch is good enough for this cycle? Should we wait until we get proper spacing between the buttons? Is it to ui-freezy already? [12:38] larsu: I'd take it as it is now, but it is definitely UI freezy [12:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze says mail ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com [12:39] do you think it's worth it? [12:40] bah, 4 days ago :( [12:40] well [12:41] I'd just word it like "if you've taken loads of screenshots already then no worries" [12:41] i.e. only do it if it's low effort for everyone [12:41] makes sense [12:41] this only affects non-default apps [12:41] so probably there aren't many screenshots around [12:42] I'll also propose the totem fix [12:42] if you like it *cough* [12:42] oh yeah, it looks quite good I think [12:58] larsu: what you mean? Shouldn't it be shown? [12:58] (in some cases) [13:03] Laney: it's fine if it gets synced to vivid. i didn't do it that way because i have no debian dev perms at all (and don't really know anything about uploading to debian) [13:03] dobey: No worries, should just be changing the target for me [13:03] thanks [13:03] (& the version of course) [13:05] Trevinho: I have the feeling it is shown in too many cases [13:05] Trevinho: not sure though. I'll investigate after lunch and let you know === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:21] larsu: ok, let me know... there might be a missing flag in indicator-appmenu === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:38] word. [13:38] hey desrt [13:38] had a good w.e? [13:38] morning desrt [13:39] seb128, didrocks: hi [13:39] yup [13:39] did some cool jhbuild work :) [13:39] stop hacking during the w.e ;-) [13:40] * desrt has enough crap to do during the week, and this is important :p [13:41] i have a couple of nice scripts now, though -- one creates a base system image out of my local debian/ubuntu mirror, with jhbuild installed from git, and makes a .tar of the result [13:42] the other one extracts that .tar into a tmpfs, installs the proper sysdeps for a given module, and runs jhbuild [13:45] debootstrap off of a local mirror is slow -- so this will help with speeding up the ~160 builds that need to be done [13:55] darkxst: you probably want to upload gnome-online-accounts to kill facebook chat, btw === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [14:12] mlankhorst: Hey, any chance you could update your Xmir xorg-server in your PPA to supersede the version in the archive? [14:30] ChrisTownsend: what exactly? [14:31] ah k :P [14:31] right forgot about that [14:31] mlankhorst: Ok, sure, thanks! [15:03] ChrisTownsend: uploaded [15:04] mlankhorst: Thanks! [15:42] Is anyone else aware that the daily images don't make it to Ubiquity at the moment? [15:50] flexiondotorg_, what's the error? [15:50] and what image? [15:51] I've just test Ubuntu MATE i386 and amd64 from 15th and 16th. [15:51] that's also probably more a topic for -devel than desktop [15:51] seb128, OK. [15:52] There is an error about pxconv not being able to set the permission of /etc/passwd- to 0600 [15:52] I'm checking with other flavours to see if this is just in Ubuntu MATE. [15:54] *pwconv [16:06] mlankhorst: Most of the time when I resume my monitors after they DPMS power off, one of them doesn't come back [16:06] until I open "Displays" in the control centre [16:06] he;lp [16:09] would be great if someone could comment on the theme MRs before I propose ffes [16:11] larsu, urls? [16:11] seb128: bug #1425155 and bug #1376565 [16:12] bug 1425155 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "totem 3.14's OSD looks bad in Ambiance" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1425155 [16:12] bug 1376565 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "Utopic system log wrong design" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1376565 [16:12] larsu, danke [16:17] larsu, approved the totem one, no doubt we should get that in, looks also a bugfix rather than an ui change to me [16:17] what's 'rather than'? [16:17] it can be both [16:17] it's an ui fix [16:17] rather than an ui feature [16:17] e.g not a redesign/change in spirit [16:18] UI freeze doesn't have this distinction [16:18] I though we made the distinction there as well? [16:18] this is UI freeze though, not UI feature freeze [16:18]