=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === doko_ is now known as doko [15:01] * slangasek waves [15:01] o/ [15:01] * stgraber waves [15:01] * cyphermox waves [15:01] o/ [15:02] #startmeeting [15:02] Meeting started Thu Mar 19 15:02:08 2015 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:02] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [15:02] [TOPIC] Lightning round === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round [15:02] $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox) [15:02] bdmurray cyphermox doko sil2100 jodh mvo stgraber barry slangasek infinity caribou robru [15:02] bdmurray: tag [15:02] investigation into daisy bug LP: #1431796 (only one thread in ThreadStacktace) [15:02] Launchpad bug 1431796 in Errors "Only one thread shown in Thread Stacktrace" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431796 [15:02] fixed errors bug LP: #1431796 (not displaying threadstacktrace) [15:02] resolved issues with whoopsie-preferences upstream branch (out of date and changes not uploaded to vivid) [15:02] tested gunicorn change of worker_class from gevent to sync to resolve too many interim responses issue [15:03] updated daisy-charm with worker_class change for gunicorn [15:03] submitted RT to have daisy charm updated so we can test worker_class change in staging [15:03] tested / worked with webops regarding gunicorn worker_class changes (seems good) [15:03] fixed an issue with the way daisy returned EoL error message and worker_class = sync [15:03] searched for strange stacktrace endings [15:03] tested DayBucketProposedCounts for recording crashes from -proposed users [15:03] updated oops-repository package in daisy-pluckers PPA (DayBucketsProposedCount) [15:03] submitted RT regarding updating oops-repository and daisy on staging [15:03] submitted merge proposal regarding component-mismatches svg (show team name) [15:03] worked on component-mismatch improvements (showing uploader) [15:03] uploaded apport SRU to enable automatic crash reporting from Trusty (LP: #1431058) [15:03] Launchpad bug 1431058 in apport (Ubuntu Trusty) "Stable Release Update to provide possiblity of automatically reporting crashes" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431058 [15:03] investigation into apport bug LP: #1300235 (chromium-browser crashes reported about init) [15:03] Launchpad bug 1300235 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "init (chromium-browser) crashed with SIGSEGV" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1300235 [15:03] submitted apport merge proposal fixing apport part of bug LP: #1300235 [15:03] verified that bug LP: #1419061 is fixed [15:03] Launchpad bug 1419061 in ubuntukylin-default-settings (Ubuntu) "On Ubuntu Kylin detect all packages as not genuine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1419061 [15:03] ✔ done [15:03] * reviewing/testing installer multipath patches in bug 1430074 [15:03] * upload partman-base, partman-multipath, grub-installer with multipath fixes [15:03] * testing and review for post-boot multipath delays and issues: [15:03] bug 1430074 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "fix handling of multipathed disks" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1430074 [15:03] - Multipath devices take long to initialize during initramfs (bug 1431650) [15:03] - system drops to initramfs after install on multipath disk (bug 1429327) [15:03] - Ship the default /etc/multipath.conf on multipath-tools-boot (bug 1432062) [15:03] bug 1431650 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "Multipath devices take long to initialize during initramfs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431650 [15:03] bug 1429327 in debian-installer (Ubuntu) "ISST-LTE: system drops to initramfs after install on multipath disk" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1429327 [15:03] bug 1432062 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "Ship the default /etc/multipath.conf on multipath-tools-boot (for user_friendly_names)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432062 [15:04] ^ I got some good results last night with changes to the multipath-tools udev rules [15:04] * reviewed urfkill pull request to fix new issues with flight mode and WWAN. [15:04] * silo for urfkill [15:04] * patch for NM connection selection bug, wrong context for IMSI (bug 1431471) [15:04] bug 1431471 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "NetworkManager uses ofono GPRS contexts for wrong SIM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1431471 [15:04] (done) [15:04] meh, still difference in summer time ... (I'll go last, and will be forgotten ...) [15:05] hmm :) [15:05] sil2100 is off sick [15:05] jodh: [15:05] * snappy [15:05] - lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/logger [15:05] - Reworked after further review, including new tests. [15:05] - Created packaging branch for the juju "loggo" golang logger, [15:05] required for the snappy logger branch: [15:05] https://github.com/jamesodhunt/loggo.git [15:05] - Reworked lp:~jamesodhunt/snappy/privileged-operations (also with new tests). [15:05] * upstart [15:05] - Bug 1429756 [15:05] bug 1429756 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "FTBFS: upstart test_job_process fails in majority of cases / Kernel returning unexpected EIO at end of file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1429756 [15:05] - Collaborated with apw. [15:05] - Lots of testing. [15:05] - Wrote a C program + test script that surfaces the timing issue without [15:05] upstart+libnih: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1429756/comments/13 [15:06] - Tested on a 3.18, 3.19 and modified 3.19 kernels. [15:06] ວ໌ [15:06] apt: [15:06] - Debug http errors on azure with smoser [15:06] - Look into size tracking bug (#777565) [15:06] - Merge debian/sid fixes for vivid and FFe (#1431877) [15:06] - New 1.0.9.7ubuntu1 uplaod (matches the debian 7 version) [15:06] - Trusty SRU for #1429041 [15:06] software-center: [15:06] - debug/fix install issue with aftershot pro2 from the store [15:06] - identify a bunch of similra incorrect meta-data for apps in the [15:06] store that prevents installing them and fix them [15:06] snappy: [15:06] - native build and unpack landed in snappy-go, major step in [15:06] reducing the external dependencies [15:06] - lots of features, fixes, cleanup [15:06] - package/upload golang-ar [15:06] - discuss/implement new hashes support [15:06] - look into oem snap dtb handling [15:06] software-properties: [15:06] Help Brian with software-properties-gtk questions [15:06] misc: [15:06] - trainguard duty [15:06] - performance review [15:06] (done) [15:06] - LXC/LXD [15:06] - Released LXC 1.1.1 on Monday [15:06] - Released LXD 0.4 on Tuesday [15:06] - Various bugfixes and feature work on LXC and LXD [15:06] - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork [15:06] - Now working on 0.5, due Tuesday (bugfix release) [15:06] - Looked into a LXC security issue (related to Seccomp) [15:06] - Still waiting on LXD-related FFes (archive is currently on barely usable LXD 0.1) [15:07] - system-image [15:07] - code reviews (some more to do this week too) [15:07] - Other [15:07] - Booked travel to Austin sprint [15:07] (done) [15:07] qa sprint [15:07] (done) [15:09] slangasek: ? [15:09] slangasek: back to you [15:09] was still reading scrollback ;) [15:09] and mine was so short! :) [15:10] * snappy: working on the developer story, how to cross-build a snap [15:10] * review season continues, look for 1:1 invites coming soon [15:10] * spent a bit of time on proposed-migration stalls, fixing maas (bug #1433697) to unblock syslinux and removing some never-gonna-build packages that are broken in Debian unstable [15:10] bug 1433697 in MAAS "maas depends on syslinux-dev, removed upstream" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433697 [15:10] * worked with robru on debugging uci-engine bootstrap issues [15:10] * sprint planning: we have a date and a location [15:10] * discussions with IBM about multipath-related bugs for 15.04 [15:10] (done) [15:10] * Lots more glibc mangling, should be uploading today [15:10] * Wrangle some transitions out of proposed [15:10] * Work with didrocks (after a conversation with xnox) on restructuring the upstart package split [15:10] * General AA and SRU things [15:10] * Argue with Canonical VPN configs [15:10] * Discussions with Colin/William about bugcontrol versus series nomination [15:10] * Work on planning the vivid release sprint [15:10] (done) [15:11] Bugfix : [15:11] - Investigating rsyslog memory leak on Trusty : running stress tests [15:11] * Noticed small leak (~27Mb) on trusty (got help from infinity) [15:11] * Running stress tests to reproduce (need to open bug for this one) [15:11] - Instance left in dying state : setting Havana test environment [15:11] Continued work on backport of runlevel S kdump fix over trusty for testing [15:11] infinity: note that smoser opened critical - that ADT testing fails as it tries to boot things with upstart, whilst systemd-sysv is installed and that fails. [15:11] Preparation for CTS sprint [15:11] sosreport juju plugin enhancement [15:11] Need to book travel before CTS sprint [15:11] infinity: marked as duplicate of the master bug. [15:11] (done) [15:11] * CI Train [15:11] - Implemented 'dirty silo' notification -- when one silo is published/merged, other silos containing conflicting packages are marked dirty so that people know not to QA them until they've been rebuilt [15:11] - Rewrote migration job from scratch with 100% test coverage, bringing the overall total test coverage up from 85% to 90% [15:11] - various tweaks and improvements in error reporting, logging, pylint cleanups [15:11] - significantly improved the clarity of the error message for the case when you try to publish a silo that contains a package that hasn't been built yet. [15:11] - cleaned up the code that generates package diffs (code used to call debdiff 3 different times 3 different ways, now it just calls it once and processes the output 3 different ways as necessary) [15:11] * lp:cupstream2distro-config [15:11] - dropped some transitional flags that haven't been used in nearly a year, shrinking the size of the entire project by 1/6th [15:11] * CI Engine [15:11] - continuing to bumble through deployment issues, not much luck. [15:11] (done) [15:12] xnox: You have bug numbers? I was basing this work on our conversation, not on actual reported bugs. [15:12] infinity: yes, we have bugs =) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/1422681 [15:12] Launchpad bug 1422681 in upstart (Ubuntu) "split out upstart-sysv" [Undecided,Triaged] [15:12] xnox: Ta. [15:13] infinity: note that bug report has irc log pastes in it ;-) [15:13] xnox: Even better. [15:13] infinity: well, paraphrased. [15:13] smoser: links to _actual_ logs in the duplicate bug. [15:13] robru: dirty silo notifications> great! btw, I guess there's still nothing that prevents two conflicting silos being submitted to QA in parallel, even though only one of these will be published? [15:13] robru: which flags were transitional? [15:13] caribou: your turn [15:14] slangasek: done already [15:14] before somebody forgets me ... [15:14] - finally updated openjdk-8 [15:14] - look at firefox ftbfs on arm64, reduce test case, file issue [15:14] - look at linux ftbfs on ppc64el, gcc dropping -m32 (but why do we need 32bit support) [15:14] - test ceph bugfix on armhf [15:14] - fix auto pkg test for kde packages [15:14] - migrations, vivid ftbfs fixes, ... [15:14] - more GCC 5 work [15:14] caribou: oh yes, failing to read my list (or scrollback) sorry [15:14] slangasek: indeed, nothing is in place to stop two built silos from going to QA in parallel; QA will have to just know not to QA the same package in two different silos. but once one gets published the other is immediately marked dirty [15:15] slangasek: np [15:15] slangasek: and the transitional flags were 'daily_release: False' and 'use_stack_ppa: False', ancient stuff from way way back when ci train was first brought online. [15:15] robru: interesting, thanks [15:16] slangasek: note that lp:cupstream2distro-config is different (and currently unrelated to) lp:cupstream2distro [15:16] oh, ok [15:17] [TOPIC] AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB [15:17] anything else? [15:17] slangasek: they were related pre-train but they've diverged since the train went online. [15:18] anyone with spare cycles could put them to use on helping to get the archive in shape for 15.04: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20150202-vivid.html http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses.html [15:18] a lot of packages stuck in -proposed right now [15:19] Looking forward to the relaxation of build failure hunting once I'm done with other tasks. [15:20] :) [15:20] indeed :) [15:22] ok, sounds like that's it then [15:22] get your travel requests in for the sprint! :) [15:22] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [15:22] Meeting ended Thu Mar 19 15:22:17 2015 UTC. [15:22] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-03-19-15.02.moin.txt [15:22] thanks all [15:22] thanks! [15:22] thanks slangasek [15:22] thanks [15:22] thanks! [15:22] slangasek, everytime I ask for help with MIR's and bugs, I get the answer that nobody has time. it's a bit frustrating [15:22] oh, I was too slow [15:23] mvo: any ideas about bug 1432172? [15:23] bug 1432172 in glibc (Ubuntu) "package libc-bin 2.19-15ubuntu2 failed to install/upgrade: triggers looping, abandoned" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432172 [15:24] bdmurray: fwiw there was discussion about dpkg's new behavior wrt triggers on the Debian side, I believe for jessie the dpkg behavior has been rolled back [15:24] you should be able to find references to this on debian-devel [15:25] slangasek: ah, okay [15:27] bdmurray: let me check [15:27] bdmurray: and yes, what slangasek said, it sounds a lot like the trigger change [17:00] CC meeting? [17:00] elfy et al? [17:01] hiya [17:01] o/ [17:01] just gathering other members [17:01] mhall119, elfy, cprofitt, czajkowski: around? [17:01] #startmeeting [17:01] Meeting started Thu Mar 19 17:01:46 2015 UTC. The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [17:01] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [17:01] aloha [17:01] hello all [17:02] #topic Catching up with the Kubuntu Council === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Catching up with the Kubuntu Council [17:02] #chair pleia2 czajkowski cprofitt [17:02] Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2 [17:02] hey Riddell - how are you doing? did you bring anyone else from the Kubuntu Council? :) [17:02] Mamarok is here from kubuntu council and ahoneybun a useful kubuntu person is here [17:02] brilliant [17:03] and here's sgclark another useful kubuntu person [17:03] how are thing going? how are the preparations for 15.04 going? [17:03] 15.04 is going to rock [17:03] hi all [17:03] it's out 10th anniversary and the headlines are going wild [17:03] glad to hear it :) [17:03] welcome sgclark [17:03] I think we may crash twitter when we launch [17:03] :-)) [17:03] Riddell: hehe [17:03] first distro with Plasma 5, it's going to be the year of the linux desktop at last [17:04] is the kubuntu testing squad happy with the the new release too? :) [17:05] they seem to be, some issues with systemd but surisingly few given the change [17:05] yeah... I was quite surprised too how smooth the transition went [17:06] somebody mentioned daily image builds being broken for a day or something [17:06] they're broken on virtualbox [17:06] which is an issue in X that I see in ubuntu unity too [17:06] * mhall119 is here now [17:06] #chair mhall119 [17:06] Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach mhall119 pleia2 [17:07] Riddell, do you know if a bug is open for it? [17:07] Riddell: congrats on 10 years of Kubuntu, btw, that's an amazing milesgtone [17:07] we have bug 1432343, was going to ask pitti if there was another one [17:07] bug 1432343 in syslinux (Ubuntu) "Vivid Daily 20150315: Live cd does not boot in VirtualBox" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432343 [17:08] Riddell, you could try to ping LocutusOfBorg1 about it - he's maintaining virtualbox in debian and ubuntu (if anything needs to be done there)... [17:08] ah ok [17:08] looks like you're well covered there :) [17:09] Riddell: how have things gone coordinating Qt releases in 15.04 between KDE's and Unity's needs? [17:10] mhall119: that seems to have gone well, Mirv and mitya57 are on #k-d and we chat about updates, they're pleasingly responsive [17:10] great [17:11] how about Wayland integration, is Plasma 5 going to use it? [17:11] it will but probably not for the next LTS [17:12] do you have a special build for it or something like that for testers or curious folks? [17:12] no it's still in development upstream, nothing very usable yet [17:12] but we do have kci [17:12] kubuntu continuous integration [17:12] that builds packages every day [17:12] and weekly ISOs from it [17:12] oh nice... what happens in kci? [17:12] so Plasma and other KDE developers can always test the latest and greatest [17:12] what do you build and/or test there? [17:13] dholbach: more or less all of Plasma/ KF5 and some apps [17:13] dholbach: all of these projects are built http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-kde/ci-tooling.git/tree/data/projects.json [17:13] ( except the custom_ci bits ) [17:13] we are also sharing out packaging repositories with Debian now [17:13] does any gatekeeping happening there as well? [17:13] so much less duplicate work all around [17:14] like "build it, run tests, if they fail, your change won't get in"? [17:14] gatekeeping? [17:14] dholbach: some what, sitter is working on keeping a eye and fixes things as they break [17:14] ok, so Sitter is the gatekeeper, I see :) [17:14] I still need to write some code to run autotests separately ( only in build tests are run at the moment ) [17:15] more or less :P [17:15] how do you feel Kubuntu is doing community wise? did you approve some new members recently? [17:15] we are in #kubuntu-ci if you want to look at colored jenkins output :P [17:16] shadeslayer, I'm usually happy enough if I *don't* get mail or any notification of jenkins :-P [17:16] ;) [17:17] the community is doing ok, we had 1 new member this year and plenty of people hang around. it's not as active as it used to be and is probably overly dependent on me [17:17] but yeah, I think it's absolutely fantastic that you're doing a lot in the CI world - it pays off so quickly [17:17] I don't think not having new people is a bad sign per se, I've had people IM me and send me messages on Forums saying that they love Kubuntu [17:18] Riddell, do you feel there are a lot of things which only you can do in the project? [17:18] so, the developer community is most certainly becoming a bit stale :( [17:19] oh sure the user community are lovely and not a day goes by when I don't get people excited about 15.04 [17:19] shadeslayer, sure... the people who actually decide to get involved, read the docs and take the plunge are very much the tip of the iceberg of all *ubuntu lovers [17:19] *nod* [17:19] I don't think there's anything only I can do, it's just a question of hours [17:19] where do you think we can reach new potential Kubuntu developers? From the rest of the Ubuntu community, or from upstream KDE community? [17:20] kubuntu users probably [17:20] I agree [17:21] are there any initiatives to convert users into developers/contributors? [17:21] only that I grab people whenever they show interest and offer them tutorial and handholding [17:22] So the Ubuntu Online Summit is coming up soon, I know Kubuntu hasn't used it much for planning, but it might be a good time and place to host instructional sessions for this purpose [17:22] kind of a "How to become a Kubuntu Developer" [17:23] possibly, I always find UOS hard to motivate myself by, we have real life meetings which work an aweful lot better [17:23] * mhall119 is going to be looking for some Kubuntu members to be track leads again too [17:23] heh [17:23] I failed miserably at that [17:23] Riddell: understood, the Kubuntu sessions in the last two UOSes seemed very popular though [17:24] sgclark: I'm going to try and recruit you again, so I wouldn't say that :) [17:24] since it's after the release, you could probably do a feedback or Q&A round [17:24] lol [17:24] ah here's ovidiu-florin, he's working on a nice new website for us [17:24] cool [17:24] hello [17:25] hey ovidiu-florin [17:25] * ovidiu-florin was hoping to stay unnoticed [17:25] that's brilliant - it's really nice to get to know the entire team :-)) [17:26] mhall119, maybe we could invite the Kubuntu team to one of the next Community Q&A sessions? [17:26] what are we talking about? [17:26] +1 [17:26] cool :) [17:26] ovidiu-florin: user community participation in kubuntu, among other things :) [17:26] ovidiu-florin, regarding the Q&A session or in general? [17:27] dholbach: that would be cool indeed [17:27] * mhall119 just heard shadeslayer volunteer [17:27] I'd love to see a demo of what's new in kubuntu land [17:27] mhall119: I'm volunteering me and Riddell xD [17:27] sorry, I had to finish some urgent work, but am reading now [17:27] * mhall119 just heard Riddell voluntold [17:27] that might also be a good opportunity to recruit new kubuntu folks :) [17:27] dholbach: in general [17:28] dholbach: both actually [17:28] ovidiu-florin, this meeting is an opportunity for the Kubuntu Council and Community Council to catch up [17:28] ovidiu-florin, we do this once a cycle to see how things are going [17:28] the Q&A session mhall119 and I mentioned happens once a week on http://ubuntuonair.com/ [17:28] usually we have lots of people from ubuntu social media channels who ask all kinds of questions [17:29] and it's nice to have guests there who can show off something [17:29] or answer questions in their area of expertise [17:29] I have to go for spanish class, hasta luego :) [17:29] shadeslayer, enjoy! :) [17:30] :) [17:30] * Mamarok wonders why he doesn't learn Catalan instead... [17:30] I'll drop Riddell and shadeslayer a mail about the Q&A and we can have a look at the calendar together [17:30] does anyone have any more questions? [17:31] * Riddell does [17:31] shoot [17:31] with a 9 mm [17:31] http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy still says "Otherwise you... will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries." this is untrue and disrespectful to the copyright owners, who are Ubuntu's upstream communities [17:31] I have been hilighting this for over a year and the community council has done nothing about it. It is hurting Kubuntu development. The communitiy council needs to make a firm statement that this is untrue and that in the spirit of free software they welcome derivatives. [17:32] we certainly haven't done nothing [17:32] in fact, it's consumed quite a bit of our time and efforts over the same year [17:32] Riddell: to be clear we've raised it to canonical legal [17:32] * ovidiu-florin has a question as well [17:32] czajkowski: that doesn't seem to be getting anywhere, time to just take a stand [17:32] Where do you see Kubuntu development hurt? [17:32] Riddell: can you go into detail about how it is hurting Kubuntu development? [17:33] and from there it;s kinda hit a wall we are talking to rickspencer in the coming weeks and will ask for it to be pushed again [17:33] dholbach: shadeslayer used to be working full time on Kubuntu, now he's not [17:33] czajkowski: best stop giving in to their stalling and just make a statement [17:33] Riddell: it's not about taking a stand , it's about getting it corrected/ cleared up for all parties. [17:33] Riddell, I'm not sure I understand [17:33] Riddell: that's not how the CC operates. [17:33] Riddell, is this an immediate effect of Ubuntu trademarks? [17:33] dholbach: is what? [17:34] shadeslayer: has the trademark/ip question caused you problems with your employment? [17:34] Riddell: can you give us an example where this has stopped someone from contributing to Kubuntu. [17:34] Riddell, shadeslayer working fulltime on Kubuntu [17:34] shadeslayer has gone [17:34] I'm not quite sure I follow [17:34] he just left for his Spanish lesson [17:34] czajkowski: I refer the honourable lady to the answer I gave some moments ago [17:34] dholbach: what don't you follow? [17:34] ok, we can follow up with him via email [17:34] why not just deal with the problem rather than the symptoms? [17:35] why taking this to mail, can't this be cleared here? Riddell can exmplain [17:35] Riddell: the CC has limited ability to "just deal with the problem" [17:35] * ogra_ always thought this stanza only refers to out of archive builds ... which kubuntu definitely doesnt fall under [17:35] Riddell, you said the policy hurts kubuntu development, then you mention Rohan not working on Kubuntu fulltime any more - I was just wondering if the two were connected [17:35] mhall119: make a public statement saying it is untrue and irrelevent [17:35] Mamarok: Riddell: is shadeslayer okay with you going into detail about his employment situation? [17:35] dholbach: yes they are [17:36] ok, I'm afraid I don't understand [17:36] Riddell: the CC is not qualified to make legal statements like that, and even if we were they would have no legal authority as we do not own the IP in question [17:36] mhall119: that's irrelevent. canonical doesn't own the copyrights either. that's the whole point. [17:36] dholbach: what don't you understand? [17:36] the connections [17:36] the connection [17:37] Riddell: they are the ones making the claim, so again the CC doesn't have any standing to make claims one way or the other [17:37] dholbach: blue systems is worried that canonical will want to restrict derivates and so shadeslayer got moved to other tasks [17:37] Riddell: has Blue Systems contacted Canonical about this? [17:37] mhall119: yes it does, it is the ubuntu council, it can make a claim on ubuntu's behalf [17:37] where are derivatives restricted? [17:37] sorry - was late getting away - hi Kubuntu people [17:37] we all live in the same archive [17:37] #chair elfy [17:37] Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski dholbach elfy mhall119 pleia2 [17:37] IIRC, Mint was given a very favorable agreement to clear this up [17:37] Riddell: the CC can't control what tasks shadeslayer is moved onto. [17:38] dholbach: 17:31 < Riddell> http://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/intellectual-property-policy still says "Otherwise you... will need to recompile the source code to create your own binaries." this is untrue and disrespectful to the copyright owners, who are Ubuntu's upstream communities [17:38] czajkowski: no but it can address the symptoms [17:38] mhall119: mint did not have to make an agreement at all [17:38] right, I read that the first time - I might need more detail to understand the connection between all of this [17:38] Riddell: nobody outside of their own employment can deal with that tbh let alone the CC [17:39] dholbach: if canonical claims the packages in the archive are not infact free software and are restricted in use then people will not want to work with them [17:39] czajkowski: you could deal with the reasons for it [17:40] I'm astonished that the CC doesn't understand the basics of free software or how it can be harmed by claims that our software is not Free [17:40] they are free software, no doubt about that - IANAL, but all Canonical asks for is a conversation, if you intend to use the Ubuntu trademark commercially and ship Ubuntu in a modified sense [17:40] Riddell: you're being really unfair to us (and I think you know that) [17:40] Riddell: the CC has been dealing with is, and are continuing to do so. If you are okay with us doing what we feel is best for Ubuntu we will keep doing that. But it means you'll have to accept what we end us doing. [17:40] but as Kubuntu is a derivative and lives in the same archive.......... where's the problem? [17:41] we've worked for over a year on this, more than any other topic, but our influence over Canonical is limited [17:41] Riddell: we have spent a lot of time on this and spent time raising this to the legal dept in canonical [17:41] Ubuntu is free software [17:41] what if Blue Systems wants to ship a modified version of Kubuntu? [17:41] dholbach: kubuntu is not a derivative. we do care about our derivatives and this harms them. [17:41] pleia2: so make a public statement that it is untrue [17:41] or if $random_person does for that matter [17:41] Riddell, sorry, a flavour then [17:41] this clause says that they have to recompile it all [17:42]