[00:00] <daftykins> beware: i've had a case of the dumbs this evening
[00:00] <shauno> green's recycling, brown is compostable
[00:00] <daftykins> ah
[00:00] <shauno> oh it took me a while to figure out too
[00:00] <shauno> when I left the UK, we'd only just started getting a wee recycling crate to shove out with the bin
[00:00] <shauno> now I get here and everyone has 3 wheelie bins
[00:11] <daftykins> O_O
[00:11] <daftykins> where did you hail from in Blighty?
[00:12] <shauno> everywhere :)
[00:12] <shauno> I was in the north-west last
[00:13] <shauno> and scotland before that, and weymouth before that, and oxford before that ..
[00:13] <daftykins> crikey!
[00:14] <daftykins> i'm not sure i could cope with that much movement
[00:14] <daftykins> i get lost sitting in the other armchair ;)
[00:18] <shauno> I can't get used to staying still :)
[00:19] <shauno> I've been in Ireland 8 years now, and it feels a few years longer than I oughta
[00:23] <daftykins> hehe
[00:24] <daftykins> just the other day my main client was telling me Japan was practically the only place he'd worked that he could've stayed permanently
[00:24] <daftykins> these fancy jet setters ;)
[00:26] <shauno> heh, haven't been that far.  the states felt alien enough
[00:27] <shauno> although I'm working on Slovakia next.  that should be some shock
[00:28] <daftykins> ooh-err, i think my friend from Uni who comes from Greece lives there nowadays
[00:29] <daftykins> escaped before the economy did its' thing
[00:29] <shauno> heh, smart move
[00:29] <shauno> I managed to show up for this one just as it started falling over.  fantastic timing
[00:30] <daftykins> surely the Irish change thing hasn't been brewing for your whole 8 year stint?
[00:31] <shauno> not far off.  I got here in 2006, and it all fell over in 2008
[00:33] <daftykins> i was in Uni then :)
[00:35] <shauno> curious, did you stay on the Island for uni too?
[00:35] <daftykins> there aren't any nah, we have to go abroad
[00:35] <daftykins> where hilariously we pay the rates of international students :)
[00:35] <shauno> ah
[00:36] <shauno> I've no idea if that's a good thing or not :)
[00:36] <daftykins> well, if we take the case of when i was there, tuition fees were probably £1,500 for a true Brit? something like that anyway
[00:36] <daftykins> for us, despite carrying a British passport, £7,500+
[00:37] <daftykins> (per year)
[00:37] <daftykins> so our government has to subsidise students
[00:37] <shauno> ouch
[00:37] <daftykins> in some cases, like an ex of mine, they get housed with the asian students in the foreign halls \o/
[00:37] <daftykins> (that was up in Reading)
[00:38] <daftykins> some people were trying to get a local Uni off the ground recently but it totally flopped
[00:40] <shauno> I'd think living with the foreigners would be more fun?
[00:40] <shauno> I accidentally ended up with a bunch of erasmus students here for a year, and it was a riot
[00:40] <daftykins> :D
[00:41] <daftykins> oh they're cool, i did that in my final year. had two french lasses and two german lasses living in my place
[00:41] <daftykins> but the asian ones group together as apparently they don't learn spoken English so much
[00:41] <shauno> not always a good thing.  I remember once meeting them coming home from town, as I was walking to work
[00:41] <daftykins> so it's very much us-versus-them
[00:41] <daftykins> hahaha
[00:41] <daftykins> that good a night O_O
[00:42] <daftykins> why is there a person in #ubuntu trying to get a 56k modem working O_O
[00:42] <shauno> internal or external?
[00:43] <shauno> I don't think much has really changed there.  the instructions from 20 years ago still hold true.  get one that uses a serial cable.
[00:43] <daftykins> no clue there
[00:44] <daftykins> :D i recall my little blue Lasat
[00:45] <shauno> well there's tonight's pointless project.  I've got mpd playing all my old chiptunes :)
[00:46] <daftykins> this one is apparently trying to set up a Sega Dreamcast dial in server
[00:47] <shauno> ahhh
[00:48] <daftykins> < Dan123_> Can anyone help me install/configure kernel-source so i can build the conexant
[00:48] <daftykins>                  dgcmodem driver modules?
[00:52] <shauno> hm, it doesn't seem too easy to divorce the dreamcast from its modem :/
[00:53] <shauno> on the amiga we do this without the modems, just stick ppp on each end of a serial cable
[00:53] <shauno> his isn't going to be much different, except he has a softmodem.  and I doubt support for those has really improved in the 15-20 years since people stopped using them
[00:54] <shauno> it is, and always has been, "go to linmodems.org and don't come back" :(
[00:55] <daftykins> in this case a remark about the level of support from #ubuntu was uttered before leaving
[00:55] <daftykins> i do so enjoy the entitled :D
[00:56] <shauno> heh
[00:57] <shauno> from a quick google, the concensus seems to be "why?!".  none of the online services for it have lasted this long
[00:59] <daftykins> i remember someone in another channel posting a site that has an own-version service alternative
[00:59] <directhex> shauno: it's totally easy. the modem unplugs. it's just the ethernet replacement is super rare
[00:59] <daftykins> but yeah sadly that's my main thought too, 'just why!?'
[01:00] <directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast_Broadband_Adapter_and_Modem_Adapter#Broadband_Adapter
[01:00] <shauno> well, for some things it can be neat.  eg, for the amiga, just being able to reach aminet and/or an ftp server is a godsend
[01:00] <shauno> but with a console, if the game servers are gone, they're gone
[01:52] <shauno> daftykins: okay, my turn for "what are they thinking?".  someone saying node is too basic, and written a replacement, with git&ssh integration, in node.js ...
[01:54] <daftykins> that flies over me i'm afraid, i'm no dev type so i've only seen the name 'node.js' but don't know what it is or does
[01:55] <shauno> it was javascript server-side
[01:55] <shauno> and then people started writing standalone apps in it
[01:56] <daftykins> ah ok
[01:57] <daftykins> ah, another night of failing to sleep early :D
[01:59] <safiyyah> Hi guys, is anyone up? I am trying to make a start up disk with an iso image but it's for windows not ubuntu. I tried the startup disk creator and apparently that is only for ubuntu files.
[01:59] <safiyyah> I also tried isomaster, can't figure out how to actually get the image on the USB stick
[01:59] <m0nkey_> unetbootin
[01:59] <m0nkey_> you can use a window ISO and write to USB
[02:00] <safiyyah> m0nkey_,  That is what I thought but it refuses to accept it, once I select the file it acts like nothing was selected
[02:01] <safiyyah> m0nkey_, I am installing your suggested app
[02:01] <safiyyah> just a sec
[02:04] <daftykins> i heard you have to cheat unetbootin by some means, probably some guides online
[02:04] <daftykins> but safiyyah, why Windows :P
[02:05] <crepple> I've seen this mentioned in other channels http://en.congelli.eu/prog_info_winusb.html but never used it
[02:07] <safiyyah_> m0nkey_,  thank you! am good, got it going!
[02:07] <crepple> See that's all I do - hang around on IRC soaking up trivia :)
[02:07] <safiyyah_> crepple,  lol
[02:08] <daftykins> it's never the right kind to win at the pub quiz, though :(
[02:08] <shauno> we'd make a really, really unpopular pub quiz
[02:08] <safiyyah_> night all, be back if I get stuck again :)
[02:08] <daftykins> safiyyah_: go to sleep you have to do the school run! :P
[02:09] <m0nkey_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgeYScYe8wI
[02:09] <m0nkey_> ^-- how to play chess properly
[02:09] <crepple> I have to sleep - I should have hours ago really (in the UK)
[02:09] <safiyyah_> daftykins, inset day tomorrow, they are off but am working from 8:30am
[02:09] <daftykins> crepple: same!
[02:09] <daftykins> safiyyah_: yeouch!
[02:09] <daftykins> g'night everyone \o
[02:10] <crepple> Night
[02:14] <m0nkey_> Can somebody wire me $300 CAD?
[02:15] <shauno> why fore?
[02:15] <m0nkey_> Need to pony up the cash to get a CPU
[02:26] <m0nkey_> I also need a trip down memory lane
[02:26] <m0nkey_> Trying to track down a Red Hat Linux 2.0 ISO
[02:26] <m0nkey_> Not RHEL
[02:27] <shauno> ooh ouch
[05:36] <mapp> hey night people
[05:36] <mapp> sup
[05:37] <mapp> why m0nkey_|away
[05:52]  * zmoylan-pi is pondering where to view the eclipse from...
[06:02] <mapp> did you watch ep3 diddledan
[06:02] <mapp> im gonna go to sleep after ep3 of csi cyber
[06:02] <mapp> mabe during..;D
[08:00] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:01] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:58] <DJones> Morning..Or maybe goodnight, if it goes dark, that tells me its bedtime
[09:04] <MooDoo> still a while to go yes, well 20 mins if you're here where i am
[09:06] <DJones> Seems to be about 1/3 gone here in Wigan
[09:14] <foobarry> really?
[09:14] <foobarry> just clouds here
[09:15] <MooDoo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty9SIeWiOx8 this is from a telescope ontop of a building at the uni in nottingham
[09:19] <foobarry> oooh red
[09:20] <foobarry> also the stream of comments on the right hand side are verbal diarrhoea
[09:21] <directhex> internet comments, tbh
[09:22] <MooDoo> yeah not reading the comments
[09:22] <foobarry> its just raw sewage
[09:24] <Myrtti> I'm just watching BBC.
[09:28] <knightwise> stupid eclips hipe
[09:28] <davmor2> Morning all, you bunch of technohippies, common on sing the song.....Freeeeeeeee ee your or  computer </free_nelson_mandela_spoof_song>
[09:29] <TwistedLucidity> Dark out, innit?
[09:29] <davmor2> nope nice and blue
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Since when did YouTube have that "chat" muck? Filled with dross, so it is.
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Bit dark here, think the sun is burnt out. Wake up sheeple! We need to restart the sun!
[09:33] <foobarry> probably just for live stream TwistedLucidity
[09:33] <foobarry> my wife expecting me to be excited about the eclipse
[09:33] <foobarry> but really its rather dull
[09:33] <ali1234> that was boring
[09:33] <ali1234> it didn't even get dark
[09:34] <foobarry> its really gloomy here
[09:34] <foobarry> all the office lights are off and it feels like 4pm in december
[09:34] <TwistedLucidity> Very dull here. Last one I saw was a full eclipse - that was nifty.
[09:34] <foobarry> we do have complete cloud cover too though
[09:35] <TwistedLucidity> Maybe a project I should do one day is make an eclipse viewer-wotsit down the Hackspace.
[09:35] <popey> for that "once in a lifetime" opportunity
[09:35] <foobarry> some dudes in astro dept have solar telescopes
[09:38] <foobarry> the office idiot just came in
[09:39] <shauno> watching the sun on the internet so I don't have to go outside, may just define who I've become
[09:39] <foobarry> "waited outside to see the eclipse but didn't see anything". we have 100% low cloud cover you tool
[09:43] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Well...travelling North would have made it the second total eclipse I'd have seen. And making stuff is fun. Also, gets me out of the house which means dodging chores. :-)
[09:46] <crepple> We saw a small change over in the West but no as much as I'd be impressed by
[09:47] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:47] <popey> hello
[09:49] <crepple> Morning
[09:50] <directhex> is it? blurg
[09:51] <foobarry> don't put talking toys in your daughters cot if you don't want to be woken at 4am by neep shouting NEEEP NEEEP when she rolls over
[09:52] <bashrc_> morning sun worshippers
[09:53] <directhex> foobarry: i like abney & teal
[09:53] <foobarry> its in my top3 of contemporary progrs
[09:53] <foobarry> shaun the sheep too
[09:54] <directhex> it "feels" french to me. it's not, it's made by the tellytubbies people. but it just feels relaxing & french
[09:54] <directhex> their island reminds me of central lyon. i don't know why
[09:54] <awilkins> Talking toys are all evil at any time of day
[09:55] <directhex> awilkins: my boy has a talking sarah. and a talking duck.
[09:55] <directhex> well, quacking
[09:56] <foobarry> its victoria park
[09:56] <directhex> is it? huh
[09:56] <foobarry> ewart stated in 2011 that the characters were all original constructs, designed in his sketchbooks, and the inspiration for the setting came from a visit to Victoria Park in East London
[09:56] <directhex> there's inflatable walruses in victoria park?
[09:57] <foobarry> tea drinking ones yes
[09:57] <foobarry> i recognised it from teh first episode i saw, and was looking for my office
[09:57] <directhex> there are good & bad shows on cbeebies. i like abney & teal
[09:57] <directhex> and octonauts is mostly acceptable - it's much better when they're being sarcastic
[09:57] <foobarry> altohugh the backdrop is not real
[09:57] <foobarry> i've read the octonauts books
[09:59] <directhex> mostly our small person watches octonauts & sarah&duck. that's it
[09:59] <DJones> Why is there an idiot stood leaning against my office door telling me they've got blurred vision after spending 10 minutes looking at the eclipse with no protective glasses....Doh!
[09:59] <MooDoo> lol
[09:59] <MooDoo> phew i'm not the only one then who everyone has a orange blob of a head then
[10:00] <TwistedLucidity> Looking at an eclipse is not clever...
[10:00] <diplo> directhex / foobarry : Octonauts were great, unfortunately my kids are growing up and seem to enjoy the more violent kids stuff now
[10:00] <TwistedLucidity> "Looking directly at..."
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> diplo: As it ever was. Cite: Tom&Jerry, Roadrunner etc
[10:02] <diplo> heh yep, they actually like T&J, but they're too old for Chuggington and the likes unless they are distracted.
[10:04] <foobarry> thomas the tank engine?
[10:05] <foobarry> old ones are ok, new ones are too CGI
[10:05] <foobarry> same for postman pat, fireman sam , etc
[10:05] <foobarry> bagpuss is jsut brilliant and we all still watch it
[10:06] <bashrc_> the clangers
[10:06] <crepple> That's the trouble the CGI effort are starting to look patterned - almost like boilerplate - makes you appreciate the old artists more I think
[10:08] <directhex> mmmmm
[10:08] <directhex> here's the thing. old shows had terrible pacing
[10:08] <directhex> the new fireman sam looks awful, but not all modern kids' cgi does
[10:08] <directhex> and the modern shows are better paced
[10:08] <foobarry> i like the pacing of old shows
[10:08] <foobarry> mr benn, bagpuss, button moon
[10:08] <popey> pfff, new people have crappy attention span
[10:08] <directhex> foobarry: you don't have the attention of a 2 year old
[10:09] <foobarry> so my kids still mianly watch slow paced stuff
[10:09] <foobarry> so thats all they know
[10:09] <crepple> foobarry i like the pacing of old shows +1
[10:09] <foobarry> shaun the sheep is the exception, but there's no words so its more old fashioned slapstick
[10:09] <foobarry> we watch old fireman sam on youtube rather than new ones
[10:10] <foobarry> but bagpuss is the perfect pacing i feel for a kids prog. if it feels like reading a book, then thats about right
[10:10] <crepple> Old kids shows used to be made with adult viewers in mind - that was a better idea
[10:10] <crepple> Because then parents would watch with their kids
[10:10] <foobarry> also night garden which is designed to send kids to bed , not hype them up
[10:10] <crepple> There's value in that
[10:11]  * awilkins treads on a Tombliboo
[10:11] <popey> I have one of these to build this weekend https://learn.adafruit.com/tv-b-gone-kit/overview
[10:11] <awilkins> Heheheheh
[10:11] <foobarry> heh
[10:11] <foobarry> i would do that in my dentist surgery. you are strssed and they are playing jerry springer type programmes
[10:12] <popey> sophie said "can I take that to nana's house to annoy grandpa while he's watching telly?"
[10:12] <popey> "sure you can"
[10:13] <popey> I might have to tell her about the time grandpa threw wifey up the stairs when she kept turning over to the dukes of hazzard while he was watching footie scores.
[10:13] <Myrtti> I've got an Adafruit Flora waiting for my hat to be done. Doing the sunblock reminder hat I got the parts for in August
[10:13] <Myrtti> right now I'm spinning more yarn for finishing the hat
[10:14] <foobarry> my wife is spinning angora to make a fluffly rabbit :-|
[10:14] <foobarry> angora that came from a rabbit...
[10:14] <Myrtti> a bit morbid, innit
[10:15] <Myrtti> I'm just spinning ramie. Recon it'll make a nice summer hat.
[10:17] <foobarry> i guess the rabiit lives
[10:17] <foobarry> its very soft wool
[10:18] <popey> Agrajag!
[10:18] <Myrtti> they pluck the hair out though.
[10:18] <Myrtti> I strongly dislike angora
[10:21] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy International Day of Happiness! :-D
[10:22] <foobarry> yay
[10:22] <JamesTait> http://www.un.org/en/events/happinessday/
[10:22] <diplo> You bought one of those popey ?
[10:24] <popey> diplo: ya
[10:24] <popey> also, today i learned, Deep Thought had an apple logo in the film of HHGTTG http://www.eeggs.com/images/items/1561.full.jpg
[10:25] <diplo> Looks fun, may have to get one myself
[10:26] <popey> i didnt buy from
[10:26] <popey> *them
[10:27] <popey> http://nottinghack.org.uk/?p=1199
[10:29] <awilkins> Douglas was a lifelong Apple fan
[10:30] <awilkins> Was the first person to buy a Mac in the UK, allegedly
[10:32] <diplo> Walk into Currys and switch all the TV's off \o/
[10:34] <foobarry> no redhat openssl update yet?
[10:36] <popey> tsk tsk
[10:39] <foobarry> Issues concerning OpenSSL 1.0.2 present the most serious problems fixed by the new releases. No Red Hat product uses this version of OpenSSL. Consequently, they are all labelled as not affected in the tables below.
[10:39] <davmor2> diplo: I used to change the channel on the tv in the windows with the RC/calculator watch you could buy ages ago :D
[10:40] <foobarry> i thought they backported fixes from later versions
[10:40] <directhex> foobarry: the big problems were in new features in 1.0.2
[10:40] <foobarry> yep
[10:40] <directhex> they backport fixes, mostly not features
[10:41] <foobarry> sometimes the fixes have bugs :)
[10:42] <directhex> true
[10:47] <diplo> davmor2: My phone has a RC app for TV's / Sky boxes
[11:45] <DJones> diplo: There's a simlar app on my phone, I've still not found a tv it actually works with though
[11:46] <zmoylan-pi> you could crazy as it sounds put the phone down and you know pick up the tv remote? :-)
[11:47] <diplo> Helps when you've lost the remote, works with TV and sky on mine DJones
[11:47] <zmoylan-pi> well if you're going to lose the remote...
[11:47] <DJones> zmoylan-pi: Don't be silly, I get up and walk over to the tv & fiddle around trying to find the hidden buttons
[11:48] <zmoylan-pi> nah you point the laser at the buttons and the cat hits the buttons for you.  great entertainment :-)
[11:49] <DJones> I'm sure I remember my dad having a video recorder that had a remote control connected via wire
[11:50] <foobarry> yep
[11:50] <foobarry> my mate had one
[11:50] <foobarry> top loader vhs
[11:50] <DJones> That sounds about right
[11:51] <foobarry> used to watch star wars on it every week
[11:51] <zmoylan-pi> those top loading vhs are still around.  built like tanks
[11:51] <DJones> With big clicky switches on the front
[11:51] <zmoylan-pi> still trying to work out how to recycle them.  along with the nokia 3310s :-)
[11:51] <diplo> zmoylan-pi: Two young boys, remotes always go missing :D
[11:52] <DJones> Probably looked something like this http://www.digicamhistory.com/JVC_HR-3300angle.jpg
[11:52] <zmoylan-pi> pocket money depends on a list of devices been where they are supposed to be with batteries intact can help with that :-)
[11:53] <foobarry> http://s26.photobucket.com/user/wisconsinskies/media/IMG_0491.jpg.html
[11:53] <foobarry> more like this
[11:53] <foobarry> nope
[11:53] <foobarry> different still
[11:53] <foobarry> and always flashing 12:00 on it
[11:53] <zmoylan-pi> my ocd prevented that :-D
[12:57] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[13:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: o/
[13:06] <bigcalm> davmor2: where's my spy camera?
[13:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: where did you leave it?
[13:07]  * bigcalm tuts
[13:08]  * bigcalm sends davmor2 to google
[13:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: oh look a pretty demo of the eclipse
[13:10] <bigcalm> Cool
[13:10]  * davmor2 returns from google
[13:13] <foobarry> goign to a model show tomorrow
[13:13] <bigcalm> Trains?
[13:13] <foobarry> wish there were more oggcamp style things in the scale model commuinity
[13:13] <foobarry> all sorts of scale models, not trains tho
[13:14] <bigcalm> Shame
[13:14] <foobarry> my first show i've attended. they have trade stands and demonstration tables
[13:14] <foobarry> but its like the 21st century never happened with a lot of these guys
[13:14] <foobarry> all websites are the MS Word website with blue background
[13:15] <foobarry> http://www.southernexpo.co.uk/
[13:15] <zmoylan-pi> do you know how hard it is to get a 1:10 scale cd rom drive to install libre office??
[13:16] <foobarry> they have to call it the friendly show cos a lot of old men in model shops are autistic/grumpy
[13:16] <awilkins> Well, if it's a model just put a MicroSD card in it :-)
[13:16] <foobarry> like IT blokes
[13:21] <foobarry> how do i change java security settings in firefox :S
[13:24] <foobarry> oh i fixed it \o/
[13:25] <zmoylan-pi> you stopped using java? :-D
[13:25] <foobarry> unfortunately its for my EQL san :(
[13:50] <foobarry> the trouble with buying a pack of 4 apples is that if the first one tastes wrong/unpleasant, you know the rest are too
[13:55] <zmoylan-pi> and when wrapped under plastic you can't sniff the badness either
[13:55] <foobarry> they just aren't very tasty
[16:07] <Myrtti> dun dun duuuuunnnn
[16:08] <diddledan> foobarry: looks like they're using ms frontpage to create that site
[16:08] <diddledan> frontpage was abandoned by ms around 2003ish?
[16:08] <diddledan> ello Myrtti
[16:09] <foobarry> most model sites look like this
[16:09] <foobarry> http://www.mksmc.co.uk/modelkraft/modelkraft_gen.html
[16:09] <diddledan> foobarry: they're evil
[16:09] <foobarry> there's no end to it
[16:09] <diddledan> oh god!
[16:09] <Myrtti> ramie is nice fibre to spin as the end result is great, but oh my word I'm covered in it...
[16:10] <Myrtti> I should dig up my Flora and check it works on my Ubuntu
[16:16] <diplo> Macromedia Fireworks site foobarry :)
[16:19] <mapps> yay
[16:19] <mapps> almost darts time
[16:19] <mapps> 7pm-11;D
[16:20] <mapps> then all you can eat and drink at chinese place;] 19 euros is a bargain
[16:20] <foobarry> do they kick you out?
[16:22] <mapps> i think closes 00;30
[16:22] <mapps> 10mins from stadium ..just over border
[16:22] <mapps> ID cards would be handy now;D sucks taking passport
[16:30] <SuperEngineer> mapps - if they keep sucking your passport you probably have reasonable grounds for complaint
[17:00] <SuperEngineer> Getting frustated now; 1/ having trouble fixing printhead prob on old Cannon printer & 2/ [ more importantly] can't get the Epson XP412 to use black ink except for "Print Test page", 3/ I seen seen this discussed somewhere before, can I find it, the heck I can! :(
[17:15] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEx5lmbCKtY
[17:17] <diddledan> the kid's arm costs $350
[17:17] <diddledan> mucho cheaper than standard artifical limbs
[18:38] <SuperEngineer> After a while one stops banging one's head against the wall in frustration; & starts banging one's head on the floor instead!
[18:41] <diddledan> SuperEngineer: bad day?
[18:42] <diddledan> http://www.cnet.com/news/windows-10-pirated-upgrades-will-still-be-considered-pirated/
[18:44] <ali1234> wasn't it obvious? they'll let you upgrade to windows 10 but they'll still nag you about having a pirated copy. probably more so since they'll update the detection routines
[18:48] <directhex> trying to remember which problems that causes these days
[18:48] <directhex> no wallpaper iirc
[18:48] <SuperEngineer> diddledan, nope - quite a good actually.  Imagine what I would have posted if it ^was^ a bad day ;D
[18:49] <ali1234> "no wallpaper" is the starter edition
[18:54] <directhex> according to wikipiddle, it has occasional full-screen nags and disables personalization (e.g. wallpaper, lock screen)
[18:54] <directhex> in 8
[18:55] <directhex> 7 is black wallpaper, and hides some OS updates
[19:02] <SuperEngineer> nom nom time - see y'all later
[19:50] <diddledan> ergh. that is a terrible idea - a client has commissioned a colleague to write an app which so far seems to be a packaged set of html files, one for each product, which solely link to the website for the product
[19:51] <diddledan> s/an app/a smartphone app/
[19:53] <diddledan> as far as I can tell the app is purely an advertisement. their websites are sufficient for that. they just seem to want an app because "OMGZOR MOBILE APPS"
[19:55] <diddledan> I could understand somewhat if they were actually using functionality of the phone, but there doesn't appear to be anything that can only be achieved by having an app
[19:56] <ali1234> that's 99.9% of all mobile apps...
[20:02] <diddledan> I can understand creating an app with cordova when you need something that you can't access on the web, but when you're creating what is effectively just a website that doesn't do anything non-webby then it seems like a pointless exercise to make it into an app
[20:15] <ali1234> diddledan: apple used to reject apps that did that and only that...
[20:15] <ali1234> maybe they still do
[20:23] <diddledan> I hope they do still do that
[20:24] <diddledan> proper mobile apps can be great, but cordova allows people to think or otherwise say they're building an app when they're just doing a website
[20:25] <diddledan> not that cordova in itself is bad - I would consider it for any app I build myself due to the ability to utilise my current skillset
[20:27] <diddledan> my opinion is "if you can do it on the web, then you don't need an app"
[20:40] <ali1234> sometimes it's nice to have a website offline
[20:40] <ali1234> like offline wikipedia for example
[20:45] <Azelphur> lmao, bluevm (VPS host) have completely lost the plot :P
[20:59] <diddledan> Azelphur: oh?
[20:59] <Azelphur> yup
[21:00] <Azelphur> diddledan: my dads renting from them, servers been down >34 hours, no response to the ticket for 34 hours, their main control panel for the whole network is down (so no way to control VPS's even if they were up), no response on their IRC channel, twitter, or email.
[21:00] <diddledan> oh dear
[21:01] <Azelphur> yep, guess they aren't doing well, I told my dad to paypal dispute them, he wants to give them until Monday
[21:01] <Azelphur> I'm usually really patient with hosts, because I know it can be real difficult, but yea they are just outright ignoring us lol
[21:02] <diddledan> I wonder if you've breached 99% uptime guarantee yet
[21:02] <diddledan> must be pretty close
[21:02] <Azelphur> yes, 99% is 7 hours
[21:03] <diddledan> eep
[21:03] <Azelphur> Honestly dunno what these guys are doing haha, it's like they just took the money and ran :P
[21:03] <ali1234> raided?
[21:03] <Azelphur> ali1234: hahaha, could well e
[21:03] <Azelphur> be*
[21:05] <diddledan> I like that on the 2nd of january they posted this: https://bluevm.com/announcements.php?id=7
[21:07] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:08] <diddledan> cloudflare says "An Error 522 means that the request was able to connect to your web server, but that the request didn't finish. The most likely cause is that something on your server is hogging resources."
[21:08] <Azelphur> haha
[21:09] <diddledan> that's for their "manage server" page at https://feathur.bluevm.com/
[21:10] <Azelphur> diddledan: indeed, it means the whole customer base can't access basic things like reboot, shutdown, os reload lol
[21:11] <diddledan> obsidian irc?
[21:11] <Azelphur> yup, I'm already on there and have pinged all the ops, it seems like all the ops don't even work for the company any more
[21:13] <diddledan> the TOS on obsidian says you're not allowed to harrass people, so that means you can't badger them into responding :-(
[21:13] <Azelphur> yea, no point either since none of them actually work for the company
[21:13] <Azelphur> most of them sympathised but as I say, they don't work for BlueVM so
[21:14] <diddledan> oh, they're not ignoring you then, just they're not relevant
[21:14] <Azelphur> exactly
[21:15] <diddledan> http://uptime.bluevm.com/
[21:15] <diddledan> dallas is listed as offline as is the "website" which clearly isn't
[21:15] <Azelphur> diddledan: yea, seems like a useless thing, it says feathur is up when it isn't, my dads server is in Georgia which is supposedly online xD
[21:15] <Azelphur> yea, it's pretty silly
[21:15] <diddledan> and feathur is listed as online which clearly isn't
[21:15] <diddledan> aah you said that already
[21:17] <Azelphur> Something substantial and interesting has to be up anyway, owner running away with the money or getting raided or something :P
[21:19] <diddledan> they last twitted on the 4th (my birthday! :-p)
[21:19] <diddledan> oh no, that's a pinned twit. the 12th then
[21:19] <Azelphur> lol
[21:35] <diddledan> ooh, cortana is available on windows10 in the uk now
[21:39] <Azelphur> finally one of their support staff joined IRC and said someone is DDoSing the ticket system
[21:45] <awilkins_> So Slashdot says that MS are electing to "allow" OEMs to disable the ability to turn off Secure Boot
[21:46] <awilkins_> Yet another nasty attack on Linux
[21:46] <awilkins_> Entirely predictable
[21:47] <diddledan> does that mean they'll do so on their own devices I wonder
[21:48] <awilkins_> They already did for Windows RT things, didn;t they
[21:48] <awilkins_> Signed binaries only
[21:48] <diddledan> yeah but that was required by their policy anyway
[21:49] <awilkins_> They don't need to have a policy that says "turn off SecureBoot"
[21:49] <awilkins_> You know what I mean
[21:50] <diddledan> what I mean is they followed their requirements that they told other manufacturers
[21:50] <awilkins_> They'll just quietly make it be known in OEM license negotiations that there may be certain ... "considerations" for those OEMs that make it much harder for their hardware to boot .. other .. operating systems
[21:50] <awilkins_> "Oh, yes, fewer config options make things more reliable - less to misconfigure, less to go wrong - we prefer that kind of device, gives Windows a good name by being more reliable..."
[21:54] <diddledan> secureboot as a technology makes sense. what doesn't is that the keys are controled by a commercial entity that competes with compsnies that also want to be able to install software on the same devices
[21:55] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Ubuntu already had the key needed right, so this doesn't really make a bigger issue then we already have with windows 8 right?
[21:56] <diddledan> really it would serve microsoft to spin-out the keysigning to a not-for-profit so that they can't be dragged through the couts over antitrust regs
[21:56] <diddledan> ChloeWolfieGirl: yes I heard that too
[21:57] <diddledan> redhat also has one iirc
[21:58] <intrbiz> surely today's (not unsurprising) news about how little BIOSes can be trusted makes secureboot slightly moot
[21:59] <diddledan> intrbiz: link?
[21:59] <diddledan> intrbiz: I think the news today is more about devices that do everything in an embedded chip rather than a standard pc-style bios firmware
[22:00] <intrbiz> https://threatpost.com/new-bios-implant-vulnerability-discovery-tool-to-debut-at-cansecwest/111710
[22:00] <intrbiz> https://twitter.com/dragosr
[22:00] <diddledan> oh, I hadn't seen that one
[22:01] <intrbiz> given how closely Intel guards the low-level boot and SMM code, it is very difficult to actually trust a machine
[22:01] <diddledan> but bios exploits have been proven for some time now
[22:01] <intrbiz> SMM can be used to have code running that even the kernel cannot see or control
[22:01] <intrbiz> which can then use SOL to send what ever it likes, where ever
[22:02] <intrbiz> sure, BIOS malware is nothing new, the stats on how easy it is, is more shocking
[22:03] <intrbiz> whilst it is nice, from a security stand point to be able to sign and verify the OS and limit tampering there, which is what secure boot does
[22:03] <intrbiz> we still can't forget about the layers lower than that
[22:03] <diddledan> anything that is writable in some way or another is exploitable, just some things require out-of-band writing
[22:05] <diddledan> I discovered, for e.g. that my bricked-bios motherboard has a header that allows me to blow a new bios despite the thing being unable to even power itself up
[22:05] <intrbiz> indeed, and something obscure, unaudited and rarely updated is a pretty big risk
[22:05] <diddledan> yup
[22:05] <intrbiz> diddledan: probably a JTAG port or similar
[22:06] <diddledan> it's an SPI interface
[22:06] <intrbiz> even easier then
[22:06] <intrbiz> SPI programabler EEPROM
[22:06] <diddledan> (ignore my doubling of interface :-p)
[22:06] <intrbiz> programable*
[22:07] <diddledan> all I need now is to find a suitable cable
[22:07] <diddledan> (and download the firmware off msi.com)
[22:08] <intrbiz> I beleive that the proof of concept they had for todays talk, was finding PGP keys in memory and then sending them via SOL
[22:09] <diddledan> as far as I can tell, with regards to security of a system, anything that occurs in the cpu is exploitable.. so the only way to ensure safety of a system is to prevent things occuring in the cpu, OR have fixed-function hardware whose sole purpose is out-of-band sanity checks on the running cpu
[22:09] <diddledan> i.e. the oob isn't controlled in any way by the cpu
[22:09] <diddledan> and ideally is completely unaddressable from the x86
[22:11] <diddledan> one such example I've heard suggested is a device that prevents the cpu from starting-up until it's checked the bios for signatures
[22:11] <intrbiz> yeh
[22:12] <diddledan> the reason being that the cpu starts the bios immediately on powering up and then the code in the bios checks the bios. because the cpu trusts the bios implicitly then the bios-checking-bios code might be tampered with
[22:12] <diddledan> so the principle is that you can flash a new hacked bios which doesn't check itself
[22:13] <diddledan> then you have full-control
[22:13] <intrbiz> sure, remember their is also microcode in the CPU and chipset
[22:13] <shauno> doesn't that just move the goalposts?  this new chip becomes the target instead of the bios
[22:13] <diddledan> shauno: yup
[22:16] <intrbiz> well, you'd end up engineering the security chip like the TPMs are
[22:17] <intrbiz> with physical anti-tamper mechanisms inside the package and no way to alter the code running, IE; real PROM
[22:17] <diddledan> the problem is if there's ever software running
[22:18] <diddledan> the only real way of ensuring security is to air-gap
[22:19] <diddledan> i.e. nothing can access anything else ever
[22:19] <intrbiz> but if that software cannot be changed and is available to be audited, and simple then it is probably the best that can be acheived
[22:19] <diddledan> that means humans aren't allowed to interact with the thing either
[22:19] <intrbiz> peice of paper and dead drops ;)
[22:19] <diddledan> and keep it powered down, obviously
[22:20] <diddledan> even hardware that doesn't run software can be exploited - just requires a different sort of engineering
[22:20] <diddledan> e.g. bombs can be disarmed
[22:21] <diddledan> it's obviously always the red wire!
[22:21] <intrbiz> or the green one
[22:21] <diddledan> oh, I hadn't seen that one all the way back there
[22:21] <diddledan> where's it go?
[22:21] <intrbiz> you wouldn't want a colour blind ATO
[22:21] <diddledan> lol
[22:22] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVPE7I0I7X4
[22:22] <intrbiz> speed is it not
[22:22] <diddledan> bingo
[22:23] <diddledan> with keano reeves and sandra with her bullocks
[22:23] <diddledan> u*
[22:23] <diddledan> keanu*
[22:23] <diddledan> oh I donno how he spells it
[22:24] <intrbiz> :)
[22:25] <shauno> of course, once you've actually solved the problem, Stallman starts telling everyone you're evil because your 'by jove we've fixed it!' chip can't be modified.  and you cna't use openboot/seabios/etc because they fail the check
[22:27]  * zmoylan-pi prefers the fr. ted version of speed :-)
[22:27] <diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmU3iANbgk
[22:27] <intrbiz> shauno: not quite, to be auditable it would need to be open
[22:28] <zmoylan-pi> if it ain't open it's not yours
[22:29] <Myrtti> bah.
[22:32]  * diddledan_ waits fo windows to update 
[22:32] <diddledan_> 14%
[22:33] <zmoylan-pi> this is when you have a rasp pi in your pocket that you power off the usb ports of the windows computer.  just to get work done :-)
[22:33] <diddledan_> Lol
[22:36] <diddledan_> EDRM
[22:36] <diddledan_> Erm **
[22:37] <diddledan_> Not sure what my phone did just then
[22:37] <diddledan_>   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
[22:38] <zmoylan-pi> bad phone, hit it with a rolled up ebook :-P
[22:38] <diddledan_> :-p
[22:40] <diddledan_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rjbjws7uohfhu6p/photo%2020-03-2015%2022%2038%2048.jpg?dl=0
[22:40] <diddledan_> The new upgrade screen
[22:41] <zmoylan-pi> your pc will restart several times.  i don't miss windows
[22:42] <intrbiz> diddledan_: drum roll reuiqred?
[22:42] <diddledan_> Time to nibble on some cake, while this whirs, methinks
[22:43] <intrbiz> hmmpf, broke my build
[22:43] <diddledan_> What you building?
[22:44] <intrbiz> a monitoring system
[22:44] <zmoylan-pi> no more turning off secure boot. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/windows-10-to-make-the-secure-boot-alt-os-lock-out-a-reality/
[22:44] <intrbiz> just a misssing dep in my POM
[22:45] <diddledan_> Pom?
[22:46] <intrbiz> Project Object Model, it's Maven's config file, Java build / project tool
[22:49] <diddledan_> Aah
[22:50] <intrbiz> it handles dependency management, building, packaging, etc
[22:50] <intrbiz> makes life rather easy
[22:51] <diddledan_> Being Java, does that mean it's a maze of evil verbose xml?
[22:52] <shauno> ( https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition )
[22:52] <ChloeWolfieGirl> not an ubuntu question, but does Sata3 power a HDD or just move data?
[22:53] <intrbiz> SATA is just the data bus
[22:54] <intrbiz> SATA drives use a standard connector which has power an data on it
[22:54] <intrbiz> diddledan_: urm, it is an XML file, it could be better, could be worse and eclipse puts a nice GUI over it
[22:55] <awilkins_> Ah, Maven
[22:55] <awilkins_> At least it's not Ant
[22:55] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I thought so, but I'm looking at this motherboard and I'm trying to figure out, if the small sata cable doesn't power the HDD how am I suppost to get power to the hdd? (( http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/product/2/4965/10511.png ))
[22:56] <awilkins_> On a 3.5 drive there;s usually 2 connectors
[22:56] <diddledan_> shauno: that is hardly a suitable assignment for a prospective developer during interview unless the interviewer doesn't understand programming themselves
[22:56] <awilkins_> You should have some Molex / SATA power cables
[22:57] <intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: there is a 7 pin cable between the motherboard and HDD which is data only, then a power connector from the PSU to the HDD
[22:58] <intrbiz> awilkins_: Having used Ant in the past, Maven is a massive improvement and does more than just build
[22:58] <awilkins_> intrbiz, Oh, definitely
[22:58] <awilkins_> Wish everyone used it
[22:59]  * diddledan_ now reads how terrible that implementation is given the "enterprise" requirement -gimme a mo
[22:59] <awilkins_> Checking out source code from our VCS is horrible because they check all the libraries in in subfolders *shudder*
[22:59] <awilkins_> Really gives me no confidence at all
[22:59] <intrbiz> awilkins_: Noooooo, SCM is for source, it's in the f***ing name
[23:00] <intrbiz> awilkins_: a couple of jobs ago we used to do that with SVN, each project had the library jars in it
[23:00] <diddledan_> Oh god it hurts!
[23:00] <awilkins_> Nexus 4tw
[23:01] <intrbiz> awilkins_: we quickly started spending more time moving files around than actually coding (it felt that way), Maven fixed that issue easily
[23:01] <intrbiz> diddledan_: what hurts?
[23:02] <diddledan_> intrbiz: the code in the fizzbuzzenterprise
[23:02] <awilkins_> fizzbuzzterprize!
[23:02] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I was just looking at Molex to SATA power cables and it looks like they might go into the big long pin connectors next to the sata data ports, Cos I have no idea what they're for, sorry, desktops that I've been around are few and far apart xD
[23:02] <shauno> it's meant to hurt.  that's the whole joke :)
[23:03] <awilkins_> What, FizzBuzzTerprise doesn't use Guice for injecting modules in
[23:03] <awilkins_> NOt enTERprisEY EnOufh
[23:04] <diddledan_> awilkins_: submit a pull request
[23:05] <intrbiz> quite alot of the IOCCC entries hurt too
[23:05] <intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: if you have a modern (as in last 10 years) PSU it will likely have a couple of sata power connectors on it
[23:06] <diddledan_> And windows is done
[23:06] <intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: the SATA data and SATA power connectors sit next to each other, the SATA HDD connector is designed for use with hot swappable backplanes
[23:07] <ChloeWolfieGirl> intrbiz yeah its a new one, I don't have it yet, and am trying to work my head around online pictures of it, xD
[23:08] <intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: http://www.allpinouts.org/images/9/9c/Conn_sata.gif
[23:10] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I see the power bits on the HDD but I don't see the power bit on the mother board unless I do have to use Molex to Sata power cables.
[23:10] <intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: the power connector on the HDD goes straight to the PSU
[23:11] <diddledan_> The power doesn't come from the motherboard the same as other drives
[23:11] <intrbiz> ChloeWolfieGirl: you only need a 4 pin Molex to SATA power for older PSUs which don't have SATA power cables
[23:12] <ChloeWolfieGirl> OHHHHHHH
[23:12] <diddledan_> Motherboards have never been the source of power for disc drives
[23:12] <intrbiz> diddledan_: certainly for consumer kit, not always for servers
[23:14] <diddledan_> Good point
[23:15] <ChloeWolfieGirl> yeah I don't have my desktop yet, but I have some hard-drives, and was like "Hmm what leashes do I need to get to use these hard-drives?"
[23:17] <diddledan_> It does seem odd to me that you need more power pins than data for data discs
[23:17] <diddledan_> Sata **
[23:17] <diddledan_> Silly autocorrect
[23:19] <intrbiz> diddledan_: why does that seem silly?
[23:19] <diddledan_> Cos I don't get why you'd need so many
[23:20] <intrbiz> diddledan_: quite a few of the pins are ground
[23:20] <diddledan_> Why more than one ground?
[23:21] <intrbiz> diddledan_: the current that a single pin can handle for those style connectors is fairly low and you need to handle in-rush for hot-plug and spin up currents
[23:21] <intrbiz> you have multiple ground lines to reduce interference between the signal pairs
[23:21] <intrbiz> the data cable is structured: ground, pair, ground, pair, ground
[23:22] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I was once a silly, I opened a sega saturn because the  sega saturn wouldn't detect a disc and spin, so I messed around and eletricuted myself, luckily it wasn't bad but gosh, yeah... shouldn't mess around with electics with no protection and it plugged in
[23:22] <ChloeWolfieGirl> just cos we where talking about ground pins
[23:23] <intrbiz> indeed, you need to be careful when opening anything which has exposed high voltage, open frame PSUs in embded devices you should take care with
[23:23] <diddledan_> I get multiple grounds on a data cable, I don't get it for a power cable
[23:24] <shauno> they're just bonded because the pins can't handle the amperage required
[23:24] <shauno> so you ahve 3x3.3V, 3x5V, 3x12V, 3xground
[23:24] <intrbiz> also be ware of the capacitor on the high voltage side of a PSU that can take a while to discharge
[23:25] <shauno> so you're not sending more than 1.5A across each pin, despite the power supply and cable being able to (and needing to, if you have enough drives)
[23:25] <intrbiz> you need the same wire cross section for ground as you do for the positive voltages, easiest way to do that is with multiple wires
[23:26] <intrbiz> the other reason for multiple grounds
[23:26] <intrbiz> you will notice that the positive pins and the ground pins on hot swap connectors are different lengths
[23:26] <intrbiz> the ground must always mate first
[23:26] <intrbiz> which is why ground lines will be placed on either end of the hot swap connectors
[23:28] <diddledan> and back on the desktop
[23:29] <diddledan> yeah I understand ground being required to connect first
[23:29] <intrbiz> how most PSUs limit in rush current is quite neat
[23:39] <m0nkey_> cheers!
[23:39]  * m0nkey_ downs a rum
[23:39] <diddledan> drunky m0nkey_
[23:40] <m0nkey_> just getting started, so no.. not yet