[00:01] elfy, I never get the eject media prompt so I could not in good conscience fail it ;) [00:05] done https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer [00:06] ali1234, gmb can and does search without affecting playlist. [00:06] i can't figure out how to do it, i doubt most users could either [00:06] ali1234, use the search bar. [00:06] i did, it didnt work [00:06] how didn't it work? [00:06] the search bar literally does nothing [00:07] how come it does for me? [00:07] it also does it incredibly slowly [00:07] i dunno, are you sure you are using the same gmb that i am? [00:08] gmb 1.1.13 in xubuntu 14.10 [00:08] i'm still on 14.04 [00:08] it worked on 14.04 as well [00:08] i'm sure :) [00:08] * micahg can build a backport of a newer version if needed [00:08] micahg, no need to, the feature works, i'm 100% certain of that. [00:09] ok [00:09] ali1234, the only thing in that list that gmb objectively can't do is streams and podcasts [00:10] maybe it can do all that stuff; a normal person would have absolutely no idea HOW though, because the UI is so awful [00:10] ali1234, and i don't think "attempts to ape other players..." is very objective. [00:10] it's entirely objective; see the rhythmbox layout - it doesn't work at all [00:10] it's like the developer looked at a screenshot of rhythmbox when making it [00:10] it *looks* like rhythmbox and that is all [00:11] ali1234, see - gmb doesn't try to ape any other players... the various layouts are provided for people who *want* gmb to look something else [00:11] i would settle for a layout that actually works [00:11] unfortunately none of them do [00:11] ali1234, so which layout are you using? [00:11] right now i'm using exaile layout [00:11] search bar still doesn't work [00:12] and no way to browse albums/artists [00:12] please don't judge the application by non-default configuration [00:12] the default layout is completely unintelligable [00:12] i literally can't figure out how to use it [00:12] i'm sorry. [00:12] i had to switch layout just to make it play music [00:13] and i can't even figure out how to go back to the default [00:13] seriously, which layout is supposed to be default? [00:14] "Shimmer Desktop" [00:14] okay, that's basically the same as banshee/rhythmbox [00:14] well... okay? [00:14] does that make gmb "bad" [00:14] no [00:15] i thought you thought so... [00:15] i'm sorry if i was mistaken. [00:15] no, it's bad because it has the layout of banshee/rhythmbox style browser, except it doesn't work [00:15] * knome breathes slowly in and out [00:15] click on an album in the rightmost pane [00:16] the artist pane should list only artists on that album [00:16] it does not [00:16] X [00:16] in what way "should" ? [00:16] in the way that that's how rhythmbox and banshee work [00:16] remember "big fuzzy and cudly teddy-bear" [00:16] and it's also how whatever they copied works [00:16] ali1234, does that mean that's the "right" way? [00:16] yes [00:16] because? [00:17] because it is better [00:17] that's not a rationale [00:17] i will admit that in this particular layout the search bar actually works! [00:17] i do wonder why it works in this layout, but not others [00:18] the other layouts aren't maintained by us, i have no idea. [00:18] you can also browse without changing the current song [00:18] that doesn't work in other layouts either [00:19] can we remove all the borken layouts? [00:19] that's totally open for discussion [00:20] i don't have anything against that. [00:21] this actually isn't bad [00:21] ok, now that most of it is sorted out... [00:21] the list view panes you describe [00:21] are designed to work like that [00:22] if you want to browse artists by album, add an album tab in the first pane [00:22] wat [00:22] i agree that's not the first thing the new user thinks of, but otoh, it's not the first requirement either [00:22] there aren't any tabs in this layout [00:22] right-click the pane and select "show tabs" [00:23] can i get rid of this pane entirely? [00:23] no, the panes in that view are set by the layout [00:24] why do the panes look different when i set them to the same tab? [00:24] and why do they show different search results? [00:24] why is this so confusing? [00:24] ok, calm down [00:24] the panes are cumulatively limiting the search results [00:25] when you select something from the leftmost pane, the middle and rightmost pane are filtered with that selection [00:25] that's super confusing [00:26] to you, sounds like it, to me, not really [00:26] now tell me [00:26] how is a typical user going to react to this? [00:26] *i* could probably get used to this, my parents? no chance [00:26] i haven't seen many complaints about it; that doesn't mean everybody loves it, but i don't think everybody thinks it's broken either [00:27] different people have different resources to adapt to new things [00:27] if your parents love media player X, they should definitely use that [00:28] my parents don't have an opinion on media players [00:28] i was just using them as example since you did that as well. [00:28] trainging can be necessary, regardless.. [00:28] training* [00:29] so here is how it should work [00:29] there should be one pane with albums and one pane with artists [00:29] no tabs [00:29] and each pane should filter all the others [00:29] in your opinion [00:30] not this weird sequence thing [00:30] me and steve jobs yes :) [00:30] i don't see a usecase where i select an album and then see the artist for that album [00:30] you select an album which is "various artists" [00:30] the artist pane lists only artists from that album [00:31] you select and artist and then select "all album" in the album pane [00:31] granted, you found a usecase for that [00:31] now you see all songs by that artist [00:31] i don't have a lot of collections, that's not useful for me [00:31] the main point here is that my system does everything that your system can do, is simpler to use, and can do more things [00:31] that's possible. [00:32] but please don't tell gmb "can't do that" [00:32] or the other thing [00:32] if it can... [00:32] as you noticed, with the default layout, most things worked ootb [00:32] it can't do it in any of the layouts included... [00:32] yeah, i will give you that [00:32] the default isn';t quite as bad as i remembered [00:33] but really, the other thing is that gmb has lots of features that aren't necessarily the most important ones, or announced very loudly [00:33] for example, google styled search [00:34] eg. type: "year:2010" in the search bar [00:36] okay, wiki updated [00:37] the next question is that whether the filtering in panes is really something that a media player needs to do - especially if it's a core requirement.... [00:37] yes, it is [00:37] for you [00:37] for me, nope [00:37] for a regular user? i don't know [00:37] if they don't filter there is no point in them even being there [00:38] then you've just got a flat list of every song [00:38] the panes filter in gmb - in one direction [00:38] only in some layouts [00:38] in the rhythmbox layout they don't filter at all [00:38] let's keep the discussion on the default layout we're using [00:38] because we still aren't maintaining the other ones [00:39] filtering in one direction is better than nothing, but it's still awkward [00:39] awkward or not, everybody can judge that themself [00:39] they can judge it, but they can't do anything about it... [00:40] as much as they can't do anything about the things other media players do in an unnatural way for them [00:41] sounds like you have a great idea, ali1234 .. you can always make and release your own linux.. based on as much of xubuntu/ubuntu as you like [00:41] in this case there is something to be said for opinionated design [00:44] what i typically do, for my folks, or friend/family.. i'll setup things as i think they want.. and test.. and i'll still end up swapping things out here and there [00:45] what is "intersection mode"? [00:45] i thought we were looking at the core, required features [00:46] it doesn't seem to be a very good way to pick a media player, since they all have pretty much the same features [00:47] ali1234, then shouldn't we just keep gmb, because it has the same features as all others and does its job? [00:47] no, because it has an extremely confusing UI [00:47] that's your opinion. [00:47] its easy to swap out [00:47] i am not easily confused by user interfaces [00:48] i bet you can go upstream and see if you can contribute to a "ui team" or whatever [00:48] "intersection mode" does not appear to do anything [00:48] holstein: i doubt it since the first thing i would do is remove 90% of it [00:48] ali1234: sure.. fork it, then [00:49] then we can have yet another option to discuss [00:49] https://xkcd.com/927/ [00:49] well, "we" wont.. since, i just install vlc, personally and dont care to try and make anybuntu have it by default.. [00:49] i just add what i prefer.. works nice [00:50] holstein, please, that isn't constructive eitehr [00:51] i just clicked on "find songs with same artists" and now i've lost all my library and no idea how to get it back [00:52] when i click that it should select "all albums" in the album pane and that artist in the artist pane [00:52] but instead it removes everything from both panes [00:53] "jump to playing song" isn't anywhere in the shimmer layout [00:53] gonna have to turn that one back to an X since we're only considering that layout... [00:53] yes sir. [00:54] i would think it would be more productive if you actually focused on other apps you don't per se hate to keep yourself calm and productive [00:54] well that was a lot of productivity in one sentence, but that's what we're really after [00:54] well i already added a row for rhythmbox [00:55] if i added a row for banshee that would also be ticks all the way along [00:55] is this some kind of game? [00:56] "if i added..." [00:56] i'm just attempting to do what you asked [00:56] The question I have is: Is the wiki page that ali1234 added and the criteria listed there now the official criteria for audio player criteria? [00:56] Becasue he added a bit from the last (Gridcube's ?) page. [00:57] yeah i used the old page as a starting point [00:57] it's ali1234's vision of the requirements [00:57] ? [00:57] i what? [00:57] not necessarily the final requirements the team will base the decisions [00:57] banshee is a non-starter, it's in mono [00:57] noted. [00:57] Ouch. [00:57] though I do happen to really like it :) [00:57] that's why i didn't bother adding it before [00:58] Nightingale! :P [00:58] Oh dang, wrong channel. [00:58] Unit193, you're recorded. [00:58] 3rd copy of mozilla core code? [00:59] i'm sure Unit193 was joking. [00:59] Yes, though it's a decent player. [01:00] GridCube: I was referencing this old wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/DefaultMediaPlayer [01:00] drc, :) yes thanks [01:00] And you were listed a "Assignee" [01:01] yes, from the time when i bothered to try to convince people [01:01] who wrote the rant about gmb on that page? it wasn't me :) [01:01] i just dont see any sense to it anymore [01:01] i can guess who added the rebuttals [01:01] ali1234, this isn't a guessing game [01:02] yay i got my library back [01:03] you have to right click in one of the panes and then click on "set as primary filter" [01:03] Also, Shimmer set a layout for gmb, I'm sure that'd be open for improving? [01:03] definitely. [01:06] shimmer desktop is a pretty good effort. could do with a big "clear all searches" button though [01:06] ali1234, try the x at the search box [01:07] not obvious enough. search box is empty, i wouldn't expect that x to do anything [01:07] nothing, at all? [01:07] x on a text field means clear the text in the field [01:07] i see those on touch UI's a lot.. maybe thats the inspiration [01:07] ali1234, you are expecting gmb to make sense, you should already stop doing that [01:07] if there's no text in the field already [01:08] then what would it do? [01:08] fact is, it does actually reveal all my library again, but it's totally unexpected [01:08] Wait, no text in the field and you're expected to know the X clears searches (that haven't been made, because nothing shown?) [01:08] ali1234, because you are not seeing your library, you are seeing a playlist [01:08] yeah [01:09] GridCube: no, actually i'm not [01:09] yes, yes you do [01:09] the playlist is another thing entirely, and it is empty because i never use playlists [01:09] shall i make a video? [01:09] no, theres where you are wrong [01:09] you are always using playlists on gmb [01:09] so there's playlists and also a queue? [01:09] yes [01:09] and they are different? [01:09] who knows [01:10] no, i'm pretty sure what i am seeing is a filtered list of songs [01:10] anyway i said several times i would not get to bash on gmb away [01:10] and then i can drag them on to the queue [01:10] so ill stop [01:10] because it makes no sense [01:11] GridCube, as ali1234 said, playlists are a completely different thing [01:11] the problem is that there's no feedback between the top panes and the filter view [01:11] often you can have a search in effect with no visual indication at all [02:37] bluesabre: Heh, sure. Glad to help. Considered moving the branches to xubuntu-dev/+junk, but wasn't sure you wanted that and it'd confuse you too. [02:37] Unit193: we can do that, sure [02:38] you're good at cleaning things up and reducing/hiding cruft [02:38] I'm randomly OCD.. [02:47] But, thanks. [07:29] Hello === Ethan is now known as Guest5496 [07:29] morning [07:30] elfy: seems like the eject media bug is fixed [07:30] cyphermo attempted one. === Guest5496 is now known as type3 [07:35] http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/commit/?id=a6dd7d7171367f0e9af29152ccd1bfc0e6279b09 oooh. [07:40] I'm a university student and a Xubuntu user and I'd like to contribute. How can I learn to help? [07:45] type3: hello and welcome. this is a good starting point: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/ [07:51] Thank you. I'm getting started with that now [07:52] ochosi: [07:52] okeydokey [07:53] you can always ask for help here though if you get stuck [07:53] this is fun though I haven't used an irc in several years [07:53] one of the more important things you have to ask yourself while going through these pages is what it is you want/can do [07:54] I know I want to develop. I've been getting a lot better with C and want to use it somewhere outside the classroom where I can help other people [07:55] That'd likely be more with upstream Xfce. [07:56] Is there anything I can do to help xubuntu directly? [07:57] I woudn't mind checking that out though [07:57] Yey! Just purged gst0.10, poor xfburn was the only thing caught in the crossfire. [08:02] type3: some of us contribute to xfce directly, which makes the most sense if you wanna do some c coding. what you'll definitely need to learn though is gtk/glib along with c [08:02] so yeah, we can still help you with getting into that though [08:03] ochosi: that sounds like it would be a lot of fun actually, I'm sold [08:04] Now I really want to bribe Sean to at least look at removing gst0.10 from Xfburn. :P [08:04] what is happening at the moment @xfce is that we've started porting the apps from gtk2 to gtk3 for the next stable release [08:04] type3: Which of course ends up helping out Xubuntu a lot. [08:05] Unit193: i'd say bountysource is your friend ;) maybe we should really consider running fund-raising campaigns for things like these... [08:05] Not really, I never use Xfburn. I'd just like it off the ISO. [08:07] hehe [08:07] what's the status quo of pidgin? [08:08] I've been testing it a couple days no issues (at least crashes), and considering Fedora is using the same patch I am, I would really like to see this in wombat. [08:09] I could look into popping it into staging, but it's not really Xubuntu specific. [08:18] I really appreciate the help. I'm getting started with gtk2 now [08:20] ochosi: Basically, gmb is already fixed in Wombat, Pidgin easily could be, and that's all the others for us. Would be pretty cool IMO. [08:31] type3: another hint is to start with a small app, just start looking into the code. also: don't get into gtk2 too deep, we're moving *away* from that :) [08:31] Unit193: totally agreed [08:33] ochosi: ha I understand, it just took me awhile to find something up to date [08:43] Finally got one on the gnome site. Again, thank you for the help, I'm going to keep working at it but I have to sign off [08:44] sure, hf and ttyl [08:45] ttyl [08:48] ochosi, upstream xfburn dev on gst1.0 support "No progress yet. It's on my radar, but I've been pretty busy recently again." [08:49] so if sean doesn't get it, it will hopefully be done for 15.10 anyway [08:51] hm, i wouldn't rely on squisher entirely [08:51] "On the radar" in terms of Xfce can mean a couple months to a few years. [08:51] i haven't seen him around a lot lately [08:56] ochosi: so new image, vbox install - screen corruption at finish no idea what's going on - kill the machine and it does remove the install media [08:56] hmm [08:56] that said - not our issue still :) [08:56] yeah :) [08:56] just doing kvm now [08:56] well not *only* our issue :] [08:57] yea - implication being we don't have to fix it - totally our issue :p [08:57] unless it is only seen with xub - not got time to double check that [09:04] kvm - hangs on restart [09:23] hardware - bug 1436715 [09:23] bug 1436715 in casper (Ubuntu) "Vivid DVD fails to reboot or shutdown w/o hard reset" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436715 [09:32] if people get the chance to at least smoketest the 32 bit stuff that would help [10:43] ochosi, Noskcaj, Unit193: I could probably work on that port [10:43] not sure how difficult it'd be, so no promises [10:44] Would using mencoder or something else work better? libav? [10:46] porting gstreamer versions is not particularly difficult, it just depends on how much custom stuff there is in there [10:48] Unit193: I only know gstreamer :) [10:50] not sure it's more fun porting to something new/different than just to a different version of the same thing [10:51] I was thinking one might work better. :P [10:53] How would one turn off smooth scrolling in mousepad? [10:53] better than xfburn? its the most reliable burner for me [10:53] Unit193: not sure its possible, thats baked into gtk3 [10:53] there is a way to disable gtk3 animations [10:53] somewhere [10:53] maybe an xsetting [10:54] or a gtk setting [10:54] but yeah, use the gtk2 version if you dislike that sort of scrolling [10:54] https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkSettings.html#GtkSettings--gtk-enable-animations [10:55] so maybe in xsettings/Gtk [10:55] EnableAnimations [10:55] ? [10:58] Yep, thanks. Found the same page based on your comment. Too bad you can't delete entries with that tool too though. [11:00] oh, that did work? [11:00] Looks like it at least. [11:00] neat [11:03] at some point we have to consider which of these options to expose in xfce4-settings UI [11:03] yeah [11:06] lunchtime (finally) === Noskcaj_ is now known as Noskcaj [11:25] guessing this has already been seen, but xfdesktop is drawing icons on ubiquity [11:26] Uhhh..? [11:27] http://i.imgur.com/dWGB0Bb.png === Logan_ is now known as Logan [11:40] Very nice... [11:48] also had the installer freeze once it finished and I pressed ok, never saw the end terminal [12:05] for those interested, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1436816 [12:05] Launchpad bug 1436816 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity freezes the UI when intstallation is finished and Restart is clicked" [Undecided,New] [12:05] gotta run, bbl [12:32] dupe of bug 1436715 probably [12:32] bug 1436715 in casper (Ubuntu) "Vivid DVD fails to reboot or shutdown w/o hard reset" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1436715 [12:56] elfy, 32-bit installs fine on my laptop and desktop. [12:56] I use UNetbootin to make my sticks and I've never seen an eject media prompt when using them to install on hardware. [13:04] Kak izmenit yazik v ubuntu studio& [13:04] ? [13:25] please speak in english [14:51] "jump to playing song" doesn't work in any player that i have tested so far [15:00] ali1234: Jumping in the middle here without a recent log...have you tried Exaile? It's called "Show Playing Track" (CTRL-J :) and it just worked for me. [15:01] yes, it didn't work [15:01] test results are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer [15:01] interesting. [15:02] oh look, a bug in the wiki [15:03] the footnote numbers don't match up correctly [15:03] ali1234: JUst a suggestion, but you might want to add a column (or add to notes) stating which version is being tested. [15:03] good idea [15:05] All I know is that the "Jump" options works for me in Exaile 3.3.2 (I know it's not the latest, I boot iin a bit to a distro that I know has a later version). [15:05] i'll be reporting bugs for everything that doesn't work, with videos [15:06] after i've reported the bug in the wiki [15:07] actually, I think I'll grab the latest daily (seing as how the beta2 isn't out yet) and try Exaile there. [15:07] seeing as how that's the version that'll be the version shipping. [15:15] nah, doesn't support MPRIS, why bother? [15:15] maybe it does in the newest version? [15:17] Pretty sure, in my playing with earlier dailies, that it didn't show up in the volume applet/widget, so I'm guessing no (but you're correct, I'll try it in today's daily) [15:17] i'm upgrading my vm then i'll retest all this on the newest versions (while recording videos) [15:18] Google says there is a third party plugin that supports MPRIS2...will check that out. [15:22] jump to track works in clementine :p [15:23] * drc just stands here on the corner by a dark alley, looks around and starts whistling...while he waits for some one to sidle up and whisper "Hey buddy, you wanna buy a beta2, real cheap". [15:26] oops [15:30] ochosi: you any issues with marking images ready? [15:30] I've not === brainvvash_ is now known as brainvvash [15:33] and everytime I say anything re this - -release starts discussing moving the goal posts :p [15:36] heh === drc is now known as Guest15376 [15:48] ali1234: Now in daily, can you place that URL for the comparison again? [15:48] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer [15:48] thanks [15:58] OK, time for a little remedial education here...MPRIS is what causes an audio player to show up in the panel volume applet/widget/whatever, correct? [15:58] that is one thing it does yes [15:58] and the main reason we need it [16:00] OK then Exaile is Right Out :( [16:00] I thought exaile gained that support at some point :( [16:01] There is a plugin but doesn't appear to work...let me check again [16:02] MPRIS plugin checked, doesn't not show up on Volume. [16:04] Won't stop me from using it, but won't make the default player short list. [16:04] might be a too old version of mpris [16:05] Yeah, doesn't say 1 or 2 [16:06] but iirc, it has intergrated [16:11] Interesting Quod Libet doesn't appear to show up in the Whisker menu after installing. (there was some talk about it yesterday) [16:12] It does in the old menu [16:14] it's in menu here ok [16:15] whisker? [16:15] yep [16:17] nope...today's daily, LiveUSB, no staging ppa [16:17] removed and re-installed. still not on WM [16:18] mmm - definitely here - though this is a real machine, with team ppa's [16:19] HaHa...gotcha, I knew you guys were keeping the good stuff to yourselves :) [16:20] works for me [16:20] just booted the b2 and installed it - turns up in multimedia there [16:20] B2 out now? [16:21] the testing image [16:22] ah, that effectively different than todays daily? [16:22] shouldn't be [16:23] OK then quod just doesn't like me...if it turns up for you guys, I won't bother with it anymore. [16:23] lol [16:23] Guest15376: if you start typing quod does it show up? [16:24] didn't, let me check again [16:24] nope [16:24] going to reboot the Live USB. [20:15] marking us ready [20:16] yay [20:16] and sorry for not having time (again) to test... [20:16] such is life [21:01] who's dealing with release note? [21:01] i don't think that has been assigned [21:01]