[01:11] <bluesabre> I'm thinking it might be a good idea to incorporate the patch at the end of this bug in vivid/PPAs, https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450
[01:19] <Unit193> I snagged the exo patch. :P
[01:21] <ochosi> (late) evening folks
[01:21] <bluesabre> hey ochosi
[01:21] <bluesabre> Unit193: which one?
[01:41] <ochosi> bluesabre: how's it goin?
[01:42] <bluesabre> ochosi: not too bad
[01:43] <bluesabre> packaging that fix for thunar, and then will probably do some uploads
[01:43] <ochosi> is there a working fix already?
[01:43] <ochosi> i skipped the backlog about that the last few days
[01:44] <ochosi> it seemed to go rambling on and on and on...
[01:44] <bluesabre> some confirmed a fix that was applied today
[01:44] <bluesabre> and then emailed me directly to get it fixed in ubuntu :P
[01:44] <bluesabre> so I'm going to do some testing on it
[01:45] <ochosi> heh ok
[01:45] <ochosi> that is some user initiative there
[01:45] <bluesabre> indeed :D
[01:46] <bluesabre> and now we're in bug-hunting/fixing mode for vivid, so that's going to be fun
[01:49] <ochosi> so vivid bugfixing is your main focus atm?
[01:49] <bluesabre> don't really have a main focus, if anything, its been hard to focus the past few days
[01:50] <ochosi> :)
[01:50] <ochosi> me neither, was too busy with RL work
[01:50] <bluesabre> maybe I'll test the gtk3 exo, see if I can package it one way or another, and do a 0.11 release
[01:50] <ochosi> would like to work on some ports for xfce again
[01:51] <bluesabre> also need to figure out the xfce_spawn_on_screen issue in exo 0.10.4
[01:51] <ochosi> eric ported garcon
[01:51] <bluesabre> nice
[01:52] <bluesabre> xfce-dev has been so active I have not been able to keep up
[01:52] <ochosi> the screenshot in the roadmap isn't the most recent though
[01:52] <ochosi> the padding has been fixed
[01:52] <ochosi> garcon was really a comparably easy port
[01:52] <Unit193> bluesabre: Unable to focus, need glasses?
[01:53] <knome> ah ah
[01:53] <ochosi> anyway, gotta hit the sack
[01:53] <knome> ochosi, which one?
[01:53] <knome> ah ah!
[01:53] <bluesabre> Unit193: :P
[01:53] <ochosi> can't focus anymore and my glasses don't help anymore
[01:53] <ochosi> knome: yours obviously
[01:53] <ochosi> night all!
[01:53] <knome> ouch
[01:53] <bluesabre> night ochosi
[02:13] <bluesabre> welllllp, not fixed, or new bug on https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11450
[07:08] <elfy> so - did anyone actually bother with a release note ?
[07:14] <elfy> xfpm crashing apparently - not reportable, ppa's ... 
[07:24] <ochosi> morning elfy 
[07:25] <elfy> morning ochosi 
[07:25] <ochosi> no, i dropped the ball there a bit i guess
[07:25] <ochosi> somehow you had such a good grip on the release notes so far that they weren't really on my radar
[07:26] <elfy> knome and bluesabre were looking at it
[07:27] <ochosi> is there a pad?
[07:27] <elfy> ochosi: the draft is at xorg 
[07:28]  * ochosi looks
[07:28] <elfy> I put in the basics and linked to the wiki notes yesterday 
[07:28] <ochosi> wasn't there another known issue?
[07:28] <elfy> just needs the nice writing written :)
[07:29] <ochosi> i think sean said something about a freeze of ubiquity at the end
[07:29] <elfy> there's an OEM issue 
[07:29] <elfy> yea - that's really the same issue 
[07:29] <ochosi> plus he said we have icons on the desktop in the ubiquity-only session
[07:29] <ochosi> ah ok
[07:29] <elfy> yea - I saw those but didsn't actually take much notice of that :(
[07:30] <ochosi> right, that we have to fix
[07:30] <ochosi> i mean specifically we
[07:30] <elfy> yep
[07:30] <ochosi> still wondering whether we should use something other than xfdesktop to draw that background...
[07:34] <elfy> ochosi: doesn't seem to be a bug for that - I'll do one now - what to report against? 
[07:35] <ochosi> not sure, maybe xubuntu-default-settings
[07:35] <ochosi> or -meta
[07:35] <elfy> ok - don't suppose it matters much as it'll be internal anyway 
[07:35] <Unit193> Can't we just pretend it isn't happening? :(
[07:36] <elfy> well if bluesabre hadn't said anything it was going in one eye and out the other here :p
[07:36] <Unit193> \o/
[07:37] <Unit193> Next time someone gets a chance, open a terminal there and dump the env to a pastebin?
[07:37] <elfy> we know now though ... /o\ 
[07:37] <elfy> booting it now Unit193 
[07:37] <Unit193> (Someone = me if it's not done by the weekend and I remember it.)
[07:38] <ochosi> i don't remember how we created specific settings for xfdesktop just for the ubiquity only session
[07:38] <ochosi> with xfwm4 it was easy, just a startup command to disable the compositor
[07:42] <Unit193> Did we ever?
[07:42] <elfy> bug 1437180
[07:45] <ochosi> Unit193: dunno, i'm wondering though why the icons didn't show up from the start
[07:45] <Unit193> ochosi: xfdesktop4 4.11 vs 4.12?
[07:47] <ochosi> hm, not sure there was any change in that department
[07:48] <ochosi> then again i wouldn't notice, i don't use icons on the desktop ever
[07:48] <ochosi> elfy: updated the draft a little
[07:48] <elfy> ok
[07:48] <ochosi> do we have more known issues or stuff we need to add there?
[07:49] <elfy> there are a couple still kicking about - but the one we need to note is the eject/reboot issue
[07:49] <elfy> I was expecting trumpets and fanfares on the xorg post re 3.12 :p
[07:50] <elfy> s/4.12
[07:51] <ochosi> yeah, could do a separate post, not sure the release announcement is the best place for fanfares
[07:52] <ochosi> but feel free to extend what i've written there up to now, i'm a bit tired so maybe not in the fanfare-mood for that reason
[07:52] <elfy> I'm not *that* worried 
[07:52] <ochosi> also, the current double-reference to the known issue is a bit confusing
[07:52] <ochosi> and maybe we should move the link to detailed notes at the very bottom
[07:56] <elfy> I thought you were too tired :)
[08:03] <elfy> ochosi: ok - I removed the double reference - left it at the top as a warning
[08:03] <elfy> changed known issues to just be link to the wiki - which makes sense I guess
[08:05] <ochosi> uhm now there's another more obvious duplication
[08:05] <ochosi> or are you still working on the pageß
[08:05] <ochosi> ?
[08:05] <elfy> nope 
[08:06] <ochosi> highlights and issues...
[08:06] <ochosi> also "Please note the important install known issue *below* " doesn't make any sense anymore
[08:08] <elfy> done
[08:10] <ochosi> i removed that linebreak in the bugreport reference
[08:10] <ochosi> or was that intended?
[08:10] <elfy> no intended line breaks - I can only just see the screen at the moment :)
[08:11] <ochosi> ok, i think i'm ok with it as it is now
[08:11] <elfy> okey doke 
[08:11] <ochosi> maybe we should give either bluesabre or knome a chance to take a look and sign off
[08:11] <elfy> ochosi: works for me 
[08:11] <ochosi> cause i wasn't kidding when i said that i'm actually too tired for this sort of work
[08:12] <elfy> ochosi: I would have carried on 
[08:12] <ochosi> okeydokey
[08:12] <ochosi> go ahead then
[08:13] <elfy> I'll play a bit more - then leave it for the other 2 - as long as we publish sometime today 
[08:14] <elfy> maybe even add a 'don't install from it if you don't want to hard install, install b1 and dist-upgrade instead"
[08:14] <elfy> anyway -- have a good day ochosi :)
[08:18] <ochosi> yeah, sounds like sane advice
[08:18] <ochosi> alrighty, bbabl
[10:45] <bluesabre> good morning
[10:58] <bluesabre> flexiondotorg: Can you check out https://code.launchpad.net/~kalgasnik/lightdm-gtk-greeter/post-2.0.0/+merge/251694 and see if it resolves the white screen issue without the specific monitor configuration?
[11:01] <ochosi> morning bluesabre 
[11:01] <ochosi> yeah, i agree that it's mostly bugfix, which is why i commented
[11:01] <ochosi> it's quite big and seems to be a single commit
[11:01] <ochosi> which makes it extremely hard to review
[11:02] <bluesabre> some fixes can be huge, but this is also 4 different fixes, so it'd be expected to take up some space
[11:03] <bluesabre> and this is C, where nothing is small and tidy
[11:03] <ochosi> i know
[11:03] <ochosi> just saying, throwing >1 bugfix in one commit is not ideal
[11:03] <bluesabre> ah, gotcha
[11:04] <ochosi> but as long as this fixes things, i'm fine
[11:04] <ochosi> wasn't sure why he named the branch like he did though
[11:04] <ochosi> (other than the commit being big)
[11:05] <bluesabre> yeah
[11:05] <bluesabre> I'm going to review the branch tonight and give it some testing
[11:05] <bluesabre> those fixes are certainly welcome :)
[12:51] <elfy> bluesabre: did you look at x.org beta2 post? 
[12:52] <knome> i didn't even if i promised
[12:52] <knome> is it published or does it need love now?
[12:55] <elfy> not published - and you might want to give it some love
[12:56] <knome> ok, i'll look at it
[12:56] <knome> is the release out?
[12:56] <knome> eg. can i push it out when it's ready
[12:56] <elfy> yea - about 12 hours ago
[12:56] <elfy> yea - publish when ready
[12:57] <knome> ok
[13:39] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Been in a meeting. Looking now.
[13:46] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, That is a significant patch. Give me a bit...
[13:46] <flexiondotorg> bluesabre, Do you want me to test this or review the code?
[14:55] <slickymaster> krytarik, you haven't made any MP yet, have you?
[14:55] <slickymaster> regarding the translators credits?
[14:57] <krytarik> Nope, was waiting for your response on any of that first - though I *did* think about just blankedly doing some. :P
[14:57] <slickymaster> please go ahead
[14:57]  * krytarik looks back at the list
[14:59]  * slickymaster checks krytarik url
[15:01] <slickymaster> krytarik, we're still under http://www.cellrabta.pk/xubuntu/docs/unmerged-changes.html proposals, right?
[15:01] <krytarik> Yep.
[15:02] <krytarik> slickymaster: Please let me know what else of those you think is desirable and managable right now.
[15:02] <slickymaster> that's a lot of items
[15:02] <krytarik> Yeah, I had a bit of time. :P
[15:03] <slickymaster> even though some would be doable in a single MP
[15:03] <slickymaster> my suggestion would just that krytarik 
[15:04] <slickymaster> those who could be gathered into a single MP 
[15:04] <slickymaster> would be the ones we could deal with, now
[15:04] <slickymaster> and leave the rest for the next cycle
[15:04] <slickymaster> what do you think?
[15:04] <krytarik> Well, *everyone* of those could :P - but some are dependent on other stuff.
[15:05] <krytarik> The ones having sub-bullets, specifically.
[15:07] <slickymaster> that last item seems to be the most sensible one, in terms of a possible negative impact
[15:10] <krytarik> That is, right now it's more like a complete package, with only the ones marked with an [i] being able to be independently applied - so I'd indeed prefer not having to pull all those apart, however for traceabilities' sake...
[15:10] <krytarik> *traceability's
[15:13] <krytarik> slickymaster: Yeah, on that one, every language's translators would have to get those through the translation system once again - without doing any actual translation.
[15:14] <krytarik> However, I'd really like to fix that up too.
[15:15] <slickymaster> yeah, but we're 23 days away from release, so I'd prefer to play on the safe side and leave that one to thew W cycle
[15:16] <slickymaster> s/thew/the
[15:16] <krytarik> Well, if it's not 'translated', it'll just look the same. :P
[15:17] <krytarik> However, that affects the translation percentage, of course.
[15:17] <slickymaster> hm hm
[15:17] <krytarik> Also, DSF and all...
[15:18] <krytarik> And then there is the x-d-s stumbling block, of course.
[15:19] <krytarik> (Regarding the other one.)
[15:20] <slickymaster> so the way I see it, we have two possibilities, either we go with a MP, just with the [i] items
[15:20] <slickymaster> or we go with a MP with everything with the exception of the last item
[15:23] <krytarik> slickymaster: The x-d-s change would still have to be decided on then though.
[15:25] <krytarik> For me to go in one direction or another reg. it, that is.
[15:25] <slickymaster> yeah, indeed, and that does implies bluesabre and/or ochosi and/or Unit193 2 cents
[15:25] <krytarik> Yep.
[15:27] <ochosi> what cents?
[15:27] <slickymaster> hey ochosi 
[15:27] <krytarik> Euro, of course. :P
[15:28] <ochosi> hey, whazzup? :)
[15:28] <slickymaster> see what krytarik and I have been discussing
[15:28] <slickymaster> ^^^
[15:29] <slickymaster> krytarik, I would say that a MP with the first three [i] items would be the best approach now, since we're so late in the cycle
[15:31] <krytarik> slickymaster: Like I indicated, I can always roll back some of the changes on the individual parts, if separate MPs are needed, or some of the changes aren't wanted/applyable yet.
[15:32] <slickymaster> but there's no need/point on doing things and then rolling back, if it can be avoided
[15:34] <krytarik> Well, I have the current state reflected by all the involved files, but that doesn't mean I can't pull out any individual changes if needed - always had that in mind.
[15:35] <krytarik> That is, I'd rather do *that* instead of dropping most of the currently applyable changes for now.
[15:35] <slickymaster> that makes sense
[15:35] <krytarik> That is to say, just the [i] ones don't quite cut it for me.
[15:36] <krytarik> Or the first ones of those, rather.
[15:37] <slickymaster> I get that
[15:37] <ochosi> slickymaster: i read a bit of the backlog, but i'm not sure where you want/need my cents..?
[15:37] <slickymaster> regarding the x-d-s change
[15:38] <krytarik> slickymaster: And particularly the very first item, appearance of cross references, I'd like to at least have approved by knome too.
[15:39] <slickymaster> yes, I'm sure that we'll jump in as soon as he'll see the backlog
[15:40] <krytarik> ochosi: And maybe the breaking of strings not actually to translate too.
[15:46] <krytarik> ochosi: The options there are: a) Change x-d-s; b) Add a symlink in the docs package; c) Only add a 'website' target and leave the rest as is.
[15:46] <krytarik> Obviously, I'd prefer to do it proper. :)
[15:47] <krytarik> * properly
[15:48] <ochosi> sorry, you still lost me there, what change in x-d-s exactly? what are you referring to? symlink in the docs package to what?
[15:48] <krytarik> The file path in the Help .desktop file would have to changed.
[15:49] <ochosi> right why's that?
[15:49] <krytarik> It's currently pointing to the 'about' subdirectory, and would then need to point at the root directory.
[15:49] <ochosi> ah
[15:50] <slickymaster> exactly 
[15:50] <ochosi> so instead of exo-open --launch WebBrowser /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/about/xubuntu-index.html
[15:50] <ochosi> exo-open --launch WebBrowser /usr/share/xubuntu-docs/index.html ?
[15:50] <krytarik> Yep.
[15:51] <ochosi> sounds like an easy change, so what's the question again? :)
[15:51] <krytarik> lol
[15:51] <ochosi> you want me to just change that or would you expect any drawbacks..?
[15:51] <krytarik> Only if someone is eager to do that. :P
[15:51] <slickymaster> any changes in x-d-s has to go by you
[15:52] <slickymaster> or bluesabre an/ord Unit193 
[15:52] <ochosi> this seems like a very sensible and easy change
[15:52] <slickymaster> yes
[15:52] <ochosi> so yeah, not sure what a symlink would help
[15:54] <krytarik> ochosi: Well, I'm happy if it's not needed, of course. :P
[15:54] <krytarik> However, I actually tested that - not the coolest thing on Earth, of course. :D
[15:55] <sorinello> Hello, can someone point me on how to clone the git repo/submodule containing thunar ?
[15:55] <ochosi> sorinello: git clone git://git.xfce.org/xfce/thunar
[15:55] <sorinello> I see that thunar appears in more $TYPE's
[15:56] <ochosi> krytarik, slickymaster: for simple changes like these the most efficient way is to just tell one of us "hey, change this and that in x-d-s" or even submitting a MR for that would be fine
[15:56] <sorinello> thanks ochosi 
[15:56] <ochosi> sorinello: yw
[15:57] <sorinello> ochosi, any particular reason why xfce source are not on github ?
[15:57] <sorinello> how come xfce hasn't migrated to github
[15:57] <ochosi> sorinello: there's a github mirror, but it's not used for development
[15:57] <ochosi> there seemed no need to migrate
[15:57] <krytarik> ochosi: Yeah, we haven't really had a chance to chat about all that till now - so I left that as an option.
[15:57] <ochosi> we're happy with our servers
[15:58] <sorinello> okay, thanks for the info, I just want to poke a little bit in the sources of thunar
[15:59] <slickymaster> ok ochosi, consider yourself as 'told' about it, then ;)
[15:59] <ochosi> hehe
[15:59] <ochosi> slickymaster, krytarik: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/revision/562
[15:59] <ochosi> sorinello: hf! :)
[15:59] <slickymaster> great ochosi 
[15:59] <slickymaster> thnaks
[15:59] <slickymaster> thanks even
[15:59] <krytarik> LOL - that was quick.
[16:00] <krytarik> slickymaster: Snacks! :P
[16:01] <slickymaster> ok, krytarik, let's wait for the Finnish input on all this, and then propose a MP and I'll be happy to review it and merge it
[16:01] <ochosi> np, quick is how i roll ;)
[16:01] <slickymaster> lol
[16:02] <ochosi> however, we still need another upload before the final release
[16:02] <krytarik> slickymaster: Excluding the general credits still, yes?
[16:02] <ochosi> so that would be something to keep on the radar
[16:02] <slickymaster> yes krytarik 
[16:02] <ochosi> (we might need more changes in x-d-s though)
[16:02] <slickymaster> indeed ochosi
[16:03] <slickymaster> speaking about snack krytarik, little one is already nagging about it
[16:03] <krytarik> lol
[16:03] <krytarik> Well, I just had breakfast. :P
[16:03] <slickymaster> we had lunch just 2 hours ago and he's already hungry :P
[16:04] <krytarik> That's what it needs to get from little to big. ;P
[16:08] <slickymaster> :)
[16:08] <slickymaster> 4
[16:08] <slickymaster> lol irssi is lagging again horribly
[16:09] <krytarik> It's not Irssi, it's your internet connection. :P
[16:09] <slickymaster> no it's not
[16:24] <krytarik> slickymaster: This is what I mean by "Correct some data in the general contributor credits" exactly, btw:  http://paste.openstack.org/show/QdZJSz82u43SNIRGZlJz/
[16:43] <slickymaster> yeah, alphabetical order krytarik 
[18:11] <krytarik> slickymaster: Nah, I was about to say disregard that, that's secondary - the more important one is the incorrect LP user names.
[18:19] <slickymaster>  you're. tbh I didn't noticed the correction of the LP names:P
[18:19] <slickymaster> my bad
[18:20] <krytarik> Yeah, I can see how that can be overlooked there - lazy me. :P
[19:46] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, Would you have time to upload xfce4-session 4.12.1 for me?
[20:00] <Noskcaj> it and xfdesktop4 4.12.1 are in ppa:noskcaj/staging
[20:06] <pleia2> knome: lmk when you're about? want to chat polos (I sadly haven't kept up with any potential discussions you may have already had with ochosi, only pings from ochosi post washing :))
[20:07] <elfy> evening pleia2 
[20:08] <pleia2> o/ elfy 
[20:15] <brainvvash_> Noskcaj, are you preparing xfdesktop 4.12.1 for vivid? if yes, there are two regressions. not documented on bugzilla yet, but fixed in master.
[20:16] <Noskcaj> brainvvash_, oh. Is a bugfix release coming soon or should i add patches to my package?
[20:16] <brainvvash_> a bug fix release is planned, but only eric_the_idiot knows when it will be released :)
[20:18] <Noskcaj> ok. I might save xfdesktop4 for a MRE so we can test it a bit better. There's a lot of changes anyway
[20:41] <micahg> Noskcaj: there's 3 weeks until final freeze, standard SRU test period is 7 days...
[20:42] <micahg> if it's not uploadable now, it probably shouldn't be an SRU either...
[20:44] <Noskcaj> micahg, I didn't look at the release schedule, i just knew it was "soonish"
[20:44] <Noskcaj> We should have enough time then
[20:45] <micahg> Noskcaj: and anything you need sponsored, if you throw it in the queue, I can take a look over the weekend
[20:46] <Noskcaj> micahg, session's the only xfce thing i need sponsored ATM, if bluesabre doesn't just copy it from my PPA, i'll make a bug tomorrow
[20:51] <gnumbknuts> Hi ye. Has Xchat been dropped from vivid-β2 ? I had to install it manually on live-usb.  
[20:52] <elfy> yes it has
[20:53] <gnumbknuts> Will it return for the final release? or will there be no IRC client installed by default ? Thanks elfy.
[20:53] <elfy> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-14-10-beta-1/
[20:53] <elfy> was removed in the last release
[20:53] <elfy> no - there are no plans to bring it back
[20:54] <elfy> not well supported anymore, I actually use hexchat here
[20:54] <gnumbknuts> Ok elfy, I will check out Hexchat ;’
[20:55] <elfy> I would :)
[20:55] <elfy> not sure why we say install xchat tbh, the removal came about after a discussion in team and on devel mailing list about replacing xchat with hexchat
[20:56]  * micahg uses xchat :)
[20:57] <elfy> I used to for ~5 years
[20:58] <elfy> moved to hexchat last cycle because we were talking about changing
[20:58] <elfy> 2 really annoying issues for me with it, though I plod on using it ;)
[20:58] <elfy> I only stop using something when issues are really really annoying ... 
[21:06] <gnumbknuts> I didn't realise  that Pidgin could do IRC. I just had a look at some pictures of Hexchat, it looks almost the same as Xchat.
[21:07] <Noskcaj> gnumbknuts, hexchat is based on xchat, but it is actually being maintained
[21:07] <pleia2> it doesn't do it very well, but it's already included and we figure anyone who is going to be using IRC for more than a channel or two will have their own preference anyway so they'll just install their own client
[21:07] <Noskcaj> pidgin's irc is pretty dreadful for regular users, but it's enough for people needed support most of the time
[21:09] <elfy> gnumbknuts: hezxchat is a fork afaik
[21:09] <elfy> just has some suppport
[21:10] <elfy> works ok here except - alt+a to /away and ctrl+f resizes the whole window 
[21:10] <elfy> those being my 2 issues with it ;)
[21:10] <elfy> does sasl though apparently
[21:11] <gnumbknuts> I was thinking because IRC is such an old format, that if a client worked properly. then it wouldn't need maintaining.
[21:14] <gnumbknuts> Yes well... I,m new to IRC so I'm a bit scared of using some of those commands in fear of breaking something. LOL! 
[21:14] <drc> gnumbknuts: There
[21:14] <elfy> there is that - but if something does happen - is there anyone about ... 
[21:14] <drc> s a difference between "maintained" and "actively developed".
[21:15] <drc> See: ssl bugs :)
[21:15] <drc> and with that, dinnertime
[21:17] <knome> pleia2, here i am
[21:18] <elfy> hi knome 
[21:18] <knome> hello elfy
[21:18] <elfy> though I'm not likely to be mistaken for pleia2 ;)
[21:18] <knome> and no, still didn't do anything about the announcement - friend popped here sooner than he told he was going to
[21:18] <gnumbknuts> I guess it doesn't really matter whether or not an IRC client is installed by default. That's the beauty of ?ubuntu based distros, it is very easy to install :)
[21:19] <elfy> knome: yep - assumed something 
[21:19] <elfy> gnumbknuts: that for sure
[21:27] <Unit193> Hint, don't use pidgin and IRC.
[21:29] <gnumbknuts> While I'm here... In trying out Vivid-β2, I noticed that the menu icon on the panel is the xfce-menu icon. Should it not be the Whisker-menu icon ?
[21:29] <elfy> mmm
[21:29] <elfy> should be the Xubuntu icon
[21:31] <elfy> looks like the Xubuntu one http://i.imgur.com/n7C5mOu.png
[21:34] <gnumbknuts> elfy: Yes that is the one, I think I may have gotten the names mixed up. So then it, seems that all is well.