[09:42] <elfy> published b2 post
[09:47] <elfy> fiddled with the widget too
[10:32] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/W/DefaultMediaPlayer
[10:33] <elfy> so in that really easy to edit page - something needs to be noted against rhythmbox - no simple way to add multiple libraries
[10:42] <elfy> banshee's the same - only one source, but can import from multiple places
[10:48] <brainvvash> why is Banshee even considered? it pulls in additional libraries (mono)
[10:48] <elfy> no idea - it's just on the list
[10:51] <brainvvash> ali1234, what about quod libet?
[11:02] <elfy> right - added note re rhythmbox - and quod libet ;)
[11:52] <bluesabre> elfy: thanks, I did have a look at the post before, and it seemed fine
[11:52] <elfy> bluesabre: okey doke :)
[11:53] <bluesabre> flexiondotorg: I'll review the patch, was just wondering if when you applied the patch and installed if it fixed the white screen issue for you
[11:53] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: can take a look now
[11:53] <bluesabre> also, morning folks!
[11:53] <elfy> :)
[11:58] <Unit193> Howdy.
[12:05] <bluesabre> hey Unit193
[12:07] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: noticed that there are identical patches 02_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch and 03_add-light-locker-to-xflock4.patch in -session
[12:09] <bluesabre> only 03 is active in series, so not that big of a deal, but interesting
[12:16] <bluesabre> the patches folder is kind of messy in upstream debian :)
[12:16] <bluesabre> but other than that, things look ok
[13:17] <bluesabre> I'll test and upload when I get back in a few hours
[13:19] <bluesabre> also, slickymaster ochosi I saw that we need a new xubuntu-default-settings
[13:19] <bluesabre> I'll land a new package for that tomorrow, so if we have anything else that needs to go in, let me know
[13:59] <ali1234> because banshee is an example of a music player that has an intuitive ui where (nearly) everything works
[14:00] <ali1234> whatever we ship should be at least as good as it, or rhythmbox
[14:00] <knome> subjective.
[14:01] <elfy> of course it's subjective 
[14:01] <knome> some things aren't, and those are the things we're actually wanting to compare
[14:01] <knome> at least at this point
[14:01] <ali1234> having things actually work is not subjective
[14:01] <knome> you can't do a comparison where the goal is to match some subjective "bestness"
[14:01] <ali1234> they either work or they dont
[14:02] <knome> sure. whether those features (or "things that work") are desirable, is a different thing
[14:05] <ali1234> no, if the user interface is littered with buttons and menus which don't work properly or don't do anything at all, then the interface is not intuitive
[14:05] <ali1234> again, not subjective
[14:05] <knome> oookay.
[14:05] <knome> what ever.
[14:05] <knome> really.
[14:07] <ali1234> elfy: what is "multiple libraries" exactly?
[14:09] <ali1234> do you mean like multiple directories merged in to one library?
[14:09] <elfy> ali1234: I've got music in more than one partition 
[14:09] <elfy> you 'used' to be able to fiddle in dconf/gconf-editior to add extra's - -but that failed here this morning
[14:10] <elfy> and even if you can - not particularly userfriendly procedure 
[14:10] <ali1234> right, banshee and rhythmbox can only watch one directory, but you can add as many as you want
[14:10] <ali1234> and it doesn't copy by default
[14:11] <elfy> ali1234: I has /mnt/music and /mnt/music2, could only have one in rhythmbox (and I think banshee) 
[14:12] <elfy> rest let you have whatever you want
[14:12] <ali1234> you can add both but it will only automatically watch one for changes
[14:12] <elfy> ali1234: not this morning I couldn't 
[14:13] <ali1234> in rhythmbox, file->add music and don't tick "copy files"
[14:13] <elfy> mmm
[14:13] <elfy> wouldn't have looked at that as the right option
[14:14] <elfy> anyway - thanks :)
[14:14] <ali1234> in banshee it's media->import media
[14:14] <ali1234> and the "don't copy" option is in the settings, off by default
[14:14] <elfy> right
[14:15] <elfy> previously (and I mean last time I used it) you could multiple libraries in rhythmbox 
[14:15] <elfy> but had to gconf or something
[14:15] <ali1234> yeah i vaguely remember that too
[14:22] <ali1234> elfy: works for me on vivid. dconf-editor, org.gnome.rhythmbox.rhythmdb.locations
[14:23] <ali1234> then in preferences tick "watch my library for new files" (should be on by default imo)
[14:23] <ali1234> and it even says "multiple locations set" in the text field
[14:23] <ali1234> would be nice if there was a gui for this, but it does work
[14:29] <ali1234> quod libet seems really good
[14:32] <ali1234> even "jump to playing song" works
[14:33] <ali1234> it doesn't show up in the indicator though :(
[14:34] <brainvvash> enable the mpris plugin
[14:35] <brainvvash> it really has many plugins. I was really surprised
[14:35] <ali1234> lots of plugins as well i see
[14:35] <ali1234> yeah. i assume we could enable mpris by default?
[14:37] <ali1234> "The XFCE netinstall disk image provided by the Debian project installs Quod Libet as the default music program."
[14:39] <brainvvash> https://github.com/quodlibet/quodlibet/issues/1493
[14:40] <ali1234> i could take a look at that
[14:43] <brainvvash> I guess ubuntu could add a patch to enable it by default
[14:50] <elfy> ali1234: aah yes - that's the one 
[14:59] <elfy> slow ... 9 minutes and it's dealt with 27 days of 135 days 
[15:02] <ali1234> 135 days playing time?
[15:03] <ali1234> 5 days imported too fast for me to even see it happen
[15:03] <ali1234> not enough space in the VM for more than that, but i can try it on 14.04
[15:06] <ali1234> in 14.04 it does not appear to have a progress indicator
[15:07] <ali1234> 24 days 24 minutes, import time ~1 minute
[15:08] <drc> ali1234: Why are you looking at old versions?  I thought the purpose of this exercise was to evaluate players for default inclusion in the future 15.10/W?
[15:08] <ali1234> because my VM can only fit about 5 days of mp3s
[15:08] <ali1234> so i can't test import speed in it
[15:08] <ali1234> if the version in 15.04 is really an order of magnitude slower then it is a regression
[15:09]  * drc gives up on this, it's not a subjective evaluation, it's a "I want this one" evaluation.
[15:09] <elfy> mmm - got to 40 days
[15:10] <ali1234> funny how all the people claiming "this isn;t subjective!" all seem to have already picked a player that they want
[15:10] <drc> yeah, but we're not running the "subjective" evaluation.
[15:10] <ali1234> and i've said all along that i have no preference other than NOT gmusicbrowser
[15:11] <elfy> my preference isn't ever going to get on the list 
[15:11] <elfy> anyway - off for a bit now
[15:11] <drc> neither is mine
[15:12] <drc> Anyway, I'm going to just shut up on this subject.
[15:15] <ali1234> later i'll set up a real test on some other hardware
[15:15] <ali1234> what would you consider to be a "large" library anyway?
[15:42] <elfy> ali1234: >1Tb 
[15:43] <ali1234> well i can't test that, i don't have that much disk space in my computer
[15:43] <elfy> I could test it 
[15:44] <elfy> but I've not got that much here, was just responding to what I'd consider large
[15:44] <ali1234> i would consider 100GB to be large
[15:44] <elfy> I guess some people would consider mine to be large
[15:45] <ali1234> how big is the biggest ipod these days?
[15:45] <elfy> no idea without asking google
[15:46] <elfy> 64Gb apparently 
[15:50] <elfy> 2 partitions here - 194G and 518G - can test with one of those if we're after time to deal with large library
[15:51] <ali1234> is initial import time really a big problem?
[15:51] <ali1234> i mean you only have to do it once
[15:51] <ali1234> as long as it does work quickly after you've imported...
[15:52] <ali1234> otoh if we're going to test the latter then we might as well time how long the import takes as well
[15:52] <elfy> no - not for me it's not at all, that's the same as how long to boot a machine if you run a server :)
[15:52] <ali1234> yeah. or how long the installer takes :)
[15:52] <elfy> I don't mind - I'm happy enough to get the data
[15:53] <elfy> yep :)
[15:53] <ali1234> well i'll do a small scale test with my 50GB library on a slow netbook with a slow spinning disk
[15:54] <elfy> ok - let me know if you want anything 
[15:55] <Unit193> Cookies?
[15:59] <zequence> Sugary things that taste good?
[15:59] <elfy> they'd be green by the time they arrived Unit193 :(
[15:59] <elfy> hi zequence :)
[16:00] <zequence> Hi elfy 
[16:01] <zequence> Ayone got a ubuntu phone yet?
[16:01] <elfy> nope 
[16:01] <zequence> Maybe it's better just to get a device and install your own thing
[16:02] <zequence> elfy: How's Xubuntu doing?
[16:02] <elfy> pretty good all in all :)
[16:04] <zequence> elfy: How's England doing (hope I'm aiming right, geographically)
[16:04] <zequence> ?
[16:04] <elfy> yep
[16:04] <elfy> you aimed right - currently damp and dismal 
[16:05] <zequence> dismal is right with us nordic people
[16:05] <zequence> It just sets the right mood for anything
[16:05] <elfy> ha ha 
[16:05] <zequence> joking, of course
[16:07] <zequence> Seems that the differences between different DEs is growing somewhat larger now
[16:08] <zequence> Sorry for being so late in the discussion
[16:09] <zequence> I think I noticed it before, but never saw it as a problem, or whatever you would prefer to call itr
[16:10] <zequence> elfy: You listen to doom metal at any time?
[16:11] <zequence> I believe some of the best doom metal bands are from England
[16:11] <zequence> Speaking about dismal
[16:11] <zequence> I love it
[16:25] <zequence> elfy: You ever listen to doom metal?
[16:25] <zequence> Sorry, I'm on the wrong channel.
[16:26] <zequence> I actually though I was on the other one. Sorry, again
[16:45] <krytarik> slickymaster: Just did an MP for the docs with all the changes except the general credits one, as agreed upon.
[20:02] <Noskcaj> Unit193, Since you have xubuntu ppa rights, would you mind packaging xfburn from upstream git?
[20:03] <gnumbknuts> ali1234: I have been following the conversation about audio players, and have to say that I am in agreement with you in that the UIs are not intuitive. Also, it happened that I was using the same layout as you in GMB, the Exaile layout, which prompted me to install Exaile. I like this player for its file browser ability; and, of course, that it can play wav(PCM) format.
[20:13] <Unit193> Noskcaj: Umm, what for?  It's kind of early WIP.
[20:13] <Noskcaj> testing and crap. Can you copy it if i package it?
[20:15] <Noskcaj> Also, do we know when the next round of 4.12 point releases is coming? If not i might backport a few commits
[20:24] <gnumbknuts> Vivid-β2.iso and usb-creator-gtk is still plagued by this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator/+bug/1325801 . In particular, comment #105 mentions the Xubuntu iso ; is there any solution of this problems in the pipe line ? 
[20:26] <Noskcaj> gnumbknuts, looks like it's fixed in vivid, being fixed in other releases soon
[20:27] <gnumbknuts> ubottu: you must be psychic , twice this has happened ;)
[20:27] <Unit193> ubottu is a bot
[20:35] <gnumbknuts> Unit193: thanks, I couldn't workout how somebody could reply so fast . 
[20:35] <Unit193> Sure.
[20:42] <gnumbknuts> Noskcaj: I tried a forced install, into trusty1404.2,  of the utopic and vivid update versions of usb-creator, and then ran the programs; neither of them worked. I still had to copy my system version of gfcboot.c32(23kB) on to the usb-stick for it to work. 
[21:58] <slickymaster> knome, the MP is here ->
[21:58] <slickymaster> https://code.launchpad.net/~krytarik/xubuntu-docs/patches/+merge/254485
[21:59] <slickymaster> I'll wait you're input before merging it
[21:59] <knome> your
[21:59] <knome> :P
[21:59] <slickymaster> bah it's saturday
[21:59] <knome> hah
[21:59] <slickymaster> we're allowed to mistype 
[22:00] <slickymaster> since we understand each other
[22:02] <knome> krytarik, commented MP
[22:53] <xkaue> Just want to thank the Xubuntu developers for the awesome work. Xubuntu is my favorite distro, fast, stable and pretty. Thank you very much.
[22:55] <knome> xkaue, you're welcome, and glad to hear you like it!
[22:57] <slickymaster> so, knome, krytarik, Unit193, ftr, you agree with changing Ubuntu Documentation Project <ubuntu-doc@lists.ubuntu.com> into Xubuntu Team <xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com> in the docs make file?
[22:58] <knome> slickymaster, ack
[22:58] <krytarik> Well, yep.
[22:58] <slickymaster> Unit193!!!!
[22:59] <Unit193> I'm oppressed!
[22:59] <slickymaster> ahhaha
[22:59] <slickymaster> I'll consider that as a yes
[23:00] <slickymaster> knome, waht about your doubt about the actual output of the cross references now?
[23:00] <slickymaster> krytarik: ^^^ 
[23:00] <knome> i just remember krytarik wanted to shorten the output, and i'm not sure if it works in all situations in all places
[23:01] <Unit193> Oh you mean that silly "The section called" stuff?
[23:01] <krytarik> knome: It does.
[23:01] <knome> krytarik, in english? but in finnish?
[23:01] <krytarik> Unit193: Yep, that.
[23:01] <slickymaster> lol
[23:02] <krytarik> knome: Across all languages, yes.
[23:02]  * slickymaster enjoys the readiness state of mind krytarik holds
[23:02] <knome> krytarik, technically or language-wise? how well do you know finnish?
[23:02] <knome> :)
[23:02] <krytarik> Technically, of course. ;P
[23:03] <slickymaster> he's nitpicking krytarik 
[23:03] <knome> slickymaster, actually, i'm not
[23:03] <slickymaster> I know knome 
[23:03] <knome> what i mean is that if we change the way crossreferences are output
[23:03] <knome> that changes how the text reads
[23:03] <knome> and it might make the text unnatural
[23:03] <slickymaster> also know that
[23:03] <knome> so as i said before, i'm fine making the crossreferences shorter on lists
[23:03] <slickymaster> but I'm assuming that krytarik had that factor in mind
[23:04] <knome> but not completely sure about paragraph and adminition text
[23:04] <knome> krytarik, so did you? or does that change affect all crossreferences?
[23:04] <slickymaster> adminition?
[23:04] <knome> note, warning, etx
[23:04] <knome> *etc
[23:04] <knome> admonition really :P
[23:05]  * slickymaster didn't want to say anything 
[23:05] <slickymaster> ;)
[23:05] <knome> hah
[23:05] <slickymaster> lol
[23:05] <krytarik> knome: Like I said, everywhere, every language.
[23:05] <knome> but i'm not sure i agree with that change.
[23:05] <knome> in that magnitude...
[23:05] <knome> as i told you before :P
[23:06] <slickymaster> it's something easilly reverted if we do see/think it's necessary knome 
[23:07] <slickymaster> at any point in time
[23:07] <knome> but the thing is, i know it's a mistake already
[23:07] <knome> :)
[23:08] <slickymaster> well, I don't want to make a merge of something that part of team isn't comfortable with
[23:08] <knome> i understand the inconsistency issue krytarik mentions
[23:09] <knome> and the issue with the lists where "the section ..." is repeated again and again
[23:09] <knome> and i think that deserves a change
[23:09] <slickymaster> that's the main reason I'm +1 on krytarik's proposal knome 
[23:10] <knome> sure, but that should be limited to lists
[23:25] <slickymaster> so knome, if we don't go with krytarik's option, what would be your suggestion?
[23:25] <knome> make the change only affect crossreferences in lists
[23:26] <slickymaster> krytarik, what do you think? ^^^
[23:26] <krytarik> knome, slickymaster: I just checked the Finnish version, and the only difference there between now and my suggestion would be dropped quotation marks - so I guess that'd work for me too. :P
[23:27] <slickymaster> great
[23:27] <knome> krytarik, wait
[23:27] <knome> krytarik, are you saying your proposal does not affect crossreferences in paragraph text at all then?
[23:27] <knome> krytarik, or the only difference in addition to that?
[23:28] <krytarik> Hah? I'm saying my primary target is to drop the "section called" addition, everywhere.
[23:29] <knome> right
[23:29] <Unit193> left
[23:29] <knome> and you would be ok that it would only be dropped from lists?
[23:30] <krytarik> No, because that make it inconsistent between the original version and the translations.
[23:30] <krytarik> * makes
[23:30] <knome> so what are you actually agreeing with then?
[23:30] <krytarik> To not drop *every* addition, incl. quotation marks.
[23:31] <knome> but that's not what i said :D
[23:31] <krytarik> However, that'd still leave them inconsistent towards the other links, of course.
[23:31] <knome> hmpf
[23:31] <knome> let me check the finnish translation.
[23:36] <knome> krytarik, no, it doesn't sound right
[23:36] <knome> i guess i got to sleep on it though
[23:37] <knome> krytarik, why does the list on the front page say "Chapter X"?
[23:40] <krytarik> knome: I guess because those are chapters, rather than sections. :P
[23:40] <krytarik> That is, automagically.
[23:45] <knome> okay
[23:47] <knome> krytarik, what about the consistency on guide-default-apps.html#default-media ?
[23:52] <krytarik> knome: If you mean to indicate you want the "Chapter" stuff removed too then - I just tried it, and it works just the same.
[23:53] <knome> krytarik, no, i'm just questioning your path to consistency :P