[08:58] Good morning. [12:14] Hiyas all [12:36] Hey BK [12:41] hey penguin42 [12:51] BluesKaj: How are you finding KDE5 ? [12:54] penguin42, not real enthusuaistic about it so far ...missing some of my fav features and one has been droppe, not a step forward... the 'look" is ok tho. [12:54] err enthusiastic :) [12:55] penguin42, have you given it a try ? [12:55] BluesKaj: Yeh, I'm about the same, it's still annoying me in a lot of small ways [12:56] BluesKaj: Things like the title bars being rather big, and some things not working reliably - like ctrl-alt-t binding for opening a konsole not always working for me [13:00] I miss the different backgrounds for the VDs , it's been dropped in favour of the activities optional backagrounds...a pet peeve of mine , krunner no longer has a drop down for previous entries ..etc [13:01] the muon toolbar is missing [13:03] I use muon as a reference, seldom as a package manager [13:04] and that muon discover thing is hopeless IMO [13:04] that's my list, so far :) [13:05] not entirely related to plasma 5 tho [13:06] what's muon discover? [13:06] penguin42: The Kubuntu software centre. [13:07] ah [13:07] * penguin42 has never really used software centre stuff - but I do generally like having the click to do updates [13:08] * penguin42 did notice the change in that now it's got systemd poweroff works for a normal user rather than needing sudo :-) [13:10] Hey guys, just installed Beta 2 and now I am curious about the boot time [13:10] systemd-analyze blame gives me a service called NetworkManager-wait-online.service [13:11] yep - I think it says that for many people [13:11] with a start time of 8.071s [13:11] on a ssd [13:11] sounds like it's waiting for your net to come up? [13:11] gnox: similar - 12 on an ssd [13:11] my debian system boots up in just about 2.5 sec [13:12] gnox: Does systemctl show NetworkManager-wait-online ? [13:12] ubuntu has 12 sec [13:12] gnox: What does journalctl -u NetworkManager-wait-online show you, and what type of networking do you have? [13:14] i didn't notice any diff with boot times on kubuntu 15.04 and systemd, but this pc is pretty old, 2008 vintage, altho it has 6G RAM [13:14] penguin42: the output of systemctl: http://pastebin.com/90G5HVXq [13:15] amd cpus from that time aren't the fastest either [13:15] where can you enable/disable systemd services on 15.04? [13:15] lotuspsychje, at the login [13:15] BluesKaj: cool [13:16] tty/vt lotuspsychje [13:16] penguin42: journalctl -u NetworkManager-wait-online: http://pastebin.com/y39jwagB [13:16] gnox: Do you have things depending on a network connection? [13:16] penguin42: my internet :P [13:17] Apart from that, things like network mount's etc. [13:17] lotuspsychje, assuming systemctl is part of the systemd package, ...I may be wrong on that [13:17] lordievader: no, just a plain install on my testmachine [13:17] ok [13:18] Then I think you can even disable it, but don't quote me on it. [13:19] lordievader: ok, and how to do so? [13:19] lotuspsychje,, quote from google: "systemctl may be used to introspect and control the state of the " systemd " system and service manager" [13:20] gnox: sudo systemctl disable NetworkManager-wait-online (if it does screw up things do the same but with 'enable' instead) [13:22] lordievader: thanks man, i'll reboot now (logging chat off and on)... [13:24] lordievader: much better now [13:24] No broken networks? [13:24] Startup finished in 2.638s (kernel) + 1.295s (userspace) = 3.933s and network seems to work, since i can chat here [13:25] Cool, cool. [13:25] almost 4 secs is still not that fast with my laptop and debian jessie with 2.5 secs boot-time [13:25] plymouth seems to have an error, too [13:25] gnox: OK, so for me the NetworkManager-wait-online takes under a second [13:25] gnox: I'm on wired ethernet - and you? [13:26] penguin42: yeah - wired ethernet, too [13:27] gnox: Hmm ok, then I guess it's a bug - because given that this is a 5year+ old Core2 laptop, the problem isn't CPU usage [13:28] penguin42: it's an acer aspire 7740G core I5 with 4gigs... [13:29] and my beta 2 runs on a desktop: amd phenom II x4 965 with 4gigs either [13:30] * BluesKaj noticed that about acer..cheap with the RAM [13:30] gnox: Nod, you could try using journalctl to see what else was going on in the 8 seconds while it was sitting there - I'm wondering if it was waiting for something else and there is maybe a missing dependency of something that should happen first [13:31] BluesKaj: np to me, my jessie with xfce runs absolutely smooth ;) [13:33] gnox, an i5 cpu deserves more memory, mine is an i3 and it came with 8G RAM ..lenovo G500 latop [13:34] * penguin42 reckons on 1 or 2 GB/core [13:35] BluesKaj: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements [13:36] as I said: no probs until now (at least for me) :) [13:37] gnox: Anyway, I call bug rather than cpu/memory time [13:38] penguin42, dito [13:38] penguin42, but how to see what is going on in those 8 secs? [13:40] gnox: Well, you know the start/end times, so get the whole of the journal for that 8 seconds and see what else is going on [13:40] I see similar, but if I disable NetworkManager-wait-online then libvirt-bin.service has a fit :) [13:40] with an i5 and 8Gb ram [13:41] penguin42, thanks... i'll enable the service again and check. i'll be back later ;) [13:41] gnox, not disputing that ubuntu runs great on your machine , I'm just commenting on how computer manufacturers cut HW in order reach a v=certain price point [13:42] gnox: The other possibility is that nm-wait-online is doing something that doesn't play well with your network card/router [13:42] elfy: Oh, that sounds odd - what type of fit? [13:42] penguin42: time's out [13:44] trying to do what? [13:44] odd I haven't encountered that nm-wait-online [13:45] penguin42: to connect from memory, I rebooted now [13:45] BluesKaj: Me neither, I'm an upgrade [13:46] NetworkManager-wait-online takes 8 seconds for me, connected with ethernet. [13:46] elfy: Upgrade or fresh install ? [13:46] install [13:46] penguin42, I installed beta2 clean [13:46] penguin42: Libvirt can do it's networking setup through nm. [13:46] this is install sometime in the last 3 or 4 months [13:47] to / , still had /home untouched [13:47] And thus if NM isn't up fully it cannot do it's networking. [13:48] lordievader: Yeh although I'm more surprised if it's the bit just waiting for your external internet to be up - libvirt should run fine on a host that's unplugged [13:48] lordievader: yep, but if I remove bridge-utils, then I still get the wait of ~8 secs [13:48] * penguin42 would be tempted to tcpdump what's going on the network [13:48] It can also run fine without NM ;) [13:49] I wonder if it's something like an IPv6 dhcp that goes unanswered or soemthing similar [13:49] lordievader, I had a total blank on network W7 on qemu-kvm with libvirt , the only thing windows worked on it was the ehernet to the internet, no LAN whatsover [13:50] BluesKaj: I know, you told me. [13:50] BluesKaj: Letting libvirt nat it for you should do the trick though, unless you don't want natting, then you need to look into bridge devices. [13:50] lordievader, wondering if you knew what was wrong [13:51] there are a good 3 or 4 different ways of setting up networking for libvirt, each of which has there good and bad bits [13:51] I had the NAT enabled on the router , if that's what you mean [13:51] No. [13:52] Libvirt can do it's own natting, wich might be usefull if you run libvirt on a laptop and don't want to drop a bunch of vm's on every network you visit. [13:53] you can also do bridge networking (generally good, takes a bit of setup) or macvtap (which works very well except if you want to connect the vm to the host) [13:53] I was running it on this machine/with ethernet [13:54] BluesKaj: What do you want to do with the VM networking - just let it connect out? Do you want other machines on your network to be able to connect to it? [13:56] penguin42, exactly yes , and the VM guest/Windows 7 to connect to the pcs on the LAN [13:56] BluesKaj: Do you want the other machines on your network to be able to connect to the VM guest ? [13:58] yes that would be good too [13:58] I could dual boot windows I suppose, but qemu-kvm ran very well otherwise [13:59] ok, if you want other hosts to be able to connect in then you can't use NAT on qemu/libvirt [13:59] BluesKaj: So you need to setup one of the bridge setups [13:59] BluesKaj: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/NetworkConnectionBridge [14:00] And then plug the virtual network adapter of the vm into that. [14:00] * penguin42 thought there was a way to get libvirt to do all that for you [14:01] actually it sounds easier to just dual boot ...but I do appreciate the suggestions penguin42 , lordievader [14:02] BluesKaj: For just connecting out from the VM it's dead easy using NAT [14:02] I see [14:03] hi [14:03] BluesKaj: Do what you want. I'm glad I got rid of dual booting. Such a waste of time. [14:04] lordievader, well, I have lots of time :) [14:04] I hope [14:12] where does the ubuntu store xorg.conf? i cannot find it under /etc/X11 i need it to check it because my touchpad works out-of-the-box on ubuntu but other distributions seem to have a problem with it, so i wanna check it out [14:14] it's all autoconfig these days don't have an xorg.conf [14:14] simon_g: by default xorg.conf is not generated. [14:15] It's been years since autoconfig started working. [14:15] oops... it was a while since i've used linux ;) [14:15] ;-) [14:16] anyway- where can i find the configuration of touchpad :)? i'm thinking about the auto-turn off while typing as well as two-finger scrolling [14:16] :P [14:16] if you need to you can add parts of a config to/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ [14:17] added a 10-monitor.conf to set up my dual screen there [14:17] MoonUnit`: err wasn't it /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ ? <: [14:17] used to be [14:18] tehre is no /etc/x11/xorg.conf.d directory [14:18] *there [14:19] try it without the .d [14:19] nope, there is none [14:20] /etc/X11/xorg.conf [14:21] nope. there is no files like that [14:21] to create one, sudo Xorg -configure [14:21] simon_g: Create it ;) [14:21] The xorg.conf.d [14:21] You don't want to create an xorg.conf [14:21] yeah... and configure everything from the start. thanks, i'm old enough to remember it ;) [14:22] simon_g: No, create a xorg.conf.d dir and configure just what you need. [14:25] i'm not particularly interested with creating the new one- now everything works fine, or good enough for me. I'd just want to see the current, default, out-of-the-box configuration (which- as I've mentioned before- works fine) so I could copy it and modify the configuration on other distribution. I, somehow though, that the xorg.conf was automatically created during boot-up process [14:26] simon_g: Oh there isn't any xorg.conf now - none [14:26] simon_g: Not autocreated, never [14:26] simon_g: The X server just detects stuff at run time - except for special added sections [14:26] simon_g: Hence the .d dir ;) [14:26] simon_g: It's done that for ages (at least 5 years??) [14:29] :| thanks! [14:30] we used to create an nvidia xorg.conf when reinstalling the driver after an X problem at one time , but I haven't seen that for a couple of yrs either [14:31] nVidia/FGLRX still like to create one, yes. [14:32] I don't have one afaik [14:33] simon_g: Stuff is so dynamic these days - you walk up to somewhere with your laptop and plug it into a projector and a mouse, then unplug it etc - a lot of the configuration doesn't make sense for static configs except when you hit a problem [14:33] penguin42: Hehe, you should have seen FOSDEM. Many ppl messing with xrandr ;) [14:34] :D [14:34] hopefully one day we can have fun with wayland conf files. [14:34] Supposedly kwin works on there. [14:34] lordievader: Still? KDE generally behaves for me these days even with projectors - although I still occasionally come across a fun one [14:35] * penguin42 should try wayland [14:36] penguin42: not with kde [14:36] (yet) [14:36] ;p [14:37] :-( [14:38] haven't heard any reports of users trying wayland at all [14:40] tried it with fedora 21 but was buggy. [14:42] ok, thanks for help, have a nice weekend! [15:35] BluesKaj: how does one use wayland? [15:39] igalic: your DE/window manager has to support it first. [15:39] ;-) [15:41] ubi-partman hates the UEFI world apparently... [15:46] TheNumb: well, that would be kde [15:46] no [15:46] not yet [15:46] ;-) [16:08] igalic, I see your question was answered, haven't tried it myself, and I'm also on KDE [16:11] igalic: be sure to follow https://plus.google.com/+MartinGr%C3%A4%C3%9Flin/posts [16:11] :) [16:12] Martin is the head developer of KWin. [16:42] hi. I just tried ubuntu 15.04 live cd (usb) and it was fine. Except when I told it to reboot; it stayed forever on "Please remove media an dype ENTER". I had to use the power button to switch it off. [16:43] I welcome the switch to systemd but isn't that a little late in the ubuntu release cycle ? after feature freeze ?? [16:44] * penguin42 isn't sure on the timing - but it's hardly a surprise - it's been announced it was happening for a long time and you've been able to choose one or the other for a while, so I think the only change that's just happened is making the default switch [16:45] ok [16:46] solsTiCe: it's not like the packages haven't been tested before the switch. [16:47] Probably the feature freeze came in handy with the switch to systemd. Things don't change when frozen. [16:50] that's a known b2 image bug ^^ [16:51] elfy: the reboot thingy problem ? [16:53] solsTiCe: it used to happen to me in older releases too. [16:53] So it's not 15.04 specific. [16:54] I tried previous daily 15.04 iso and I don't remember having such a problem. never mind. [16:54] solsTiCe: yep [16:55] it's better than just before - when it just rebooted into live image :) [16:56] solsTiCe: it happens every once in a while [16:58] I thought it was systemd related [17:01] nope [17:05] how do I switch from nouveau to nvidia drivers on 15.04? thanks. [17:08] install nvidia from additional drivers [17:08] agronholm: Install the nvidia package. [17:08] it's not visible there [17:09] I already installed nvidia-346 [17:09] agronholm: What card do you have? [17:09] geforce gt 940M [17:09] Should still be supported, I think. [17:09] by the binary drivers, yes [17:09] agronholm: What is the output of 'lspci -k|grep -A2 VGA'? [17:10] https://bpaste.net/show/02dd732f9d8d [17:10] does this mean I'm not even using nouveau? [17:10] well [17:11] agronholm: isn't your dedicated gpu turned off? [17:11] how would I know? [17:11] Is it an hybrid thing? [17:11] in bios or something [17:11] I guess I should reboot and check [17:16] Time to dare to upgrade ... :-) [17:18] there was no such setting in the BIOS [17:18] agronholm: Is it a laptop? [17:18] yes [17:18] thinpad t550 [17:18] *Thinkpad [17:20] agronholm: Hmm, could you pastebin the output of lshw? [17:21] https://bpaste.net/show/4f3cd8e1daa7 [17:23] There are multiple models, one with only an intel gpu, one with a hybrid intel/nvidia. This seems to be intel only. [17:23] http://pdfs.icecat.biz/pdf/44835721-8504.pdf [17:23] lordievader: I specifically got myself the nvidia version [17:23] as you can see from the output, it has an nvidia controller [17:24] line 356 onward [17:24] yup [17:25] is this chip too new to be somehow recognized? [17:25] it was only announced like two weeks ago... [17:26] this is my first laptop with both intel and nvidia controllers so I'm at a loss [17:26] I have no clue how to switch [17:27] oh those are always fun [17:27] agronholm: Are you sure - The Lenovo's normally have a switch in the BIOS for that [17:28] penguin42: unless it's "muxless" [17:28] no switch in that case [17:28] penguin42: if it doesn't, I was delivered the wrong thing [17:28] agronholm: does it work in windows? [17:28] and then what is the nvidia 3d controller device on line 356 onwards? [17:28] agronholm: I had a w520 a couple of years back that had it, they offered a choice between Integrated, discrete and Optimus [17:28] I see that you have an ntfs partition. [17:28] TheNumb: yeh? [17:28] TheNumb: What's the muxless about? [17:29] penguin42: the display is connected to the integrated gpu [17:29] only [17:29] I've got a laptop with that setup. [17:29] TheNumb: Ah, not come across those, the one I had had no mux, but it had some outputs connected to the Intel, some to the Nvidia [17:29] And it's a pain in the butt since xorg doesn't support that at all. [17:30] Only hacky drivers from amd do. [17:30] TheNumb: There's a thing called bumblebee for Intel/Nvidia mix [17:30] I know. [17:31] It's also supposed to work with muxless intel/amd ;p [17:31] agronholm: Ah, I read over that one. [17:31] TheNumb: Still, the w520 I had with that mix still had the bios settings [17:31] well, this one didn't [17:31] I'm pretty sure of it [17:31] only older laptops had that switch [17:32] new ones usually come "muxless" [17:32] unless the vendor decides otherwise [17:32] what does that mean? [17:32] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/HybridGraphics [17:33] Lshw does show that the nvidia doesn't have a driver loaded. [17:34] agronholm: check your xorg log. [17:34] the nouvea module is loaded though [17:34] *nouveau [17:34] agronholm: Lshw doesn't reflect that. [17:34] but since this is kernel 3.19, it doesn't recognize it [17:34] support for the 940M only comes in kernel 4.0 [17:36] I tried installing 4.0rc5 but then the nvidia driver couldn't build its dkms module [17:37] agronholm: how were you installing the nvidia driver? [17:37] penguin42: apt-get install nvdiai-346-updates [17:37] ok [17:38] agronholm: From where did you install the 4.0 kernel? Ubuntu kernel ppa? [17:38] yes [17:49] travnewmatic: where are the Vivid kernel, initrd, etc on your box? [17:49] http://pastebin.com/NaU3NwPW [17:50] it looked like they were on the same HDD, but different partition? [17:50] thats right [17:50] ok [17:50] i'm trying something that i havent done before [17:50] different /'s for utopic and vivid [17:50] but they're both using the same /boot, /home, and swap [17:50] have you made sure that you have permission to see everything there? [17:50] well i've got vivid mounted [17:51] and can click around in the folders [17:51] wait... but the contents of your /boot folder... [17:51] that's what grub would be reading.... [17:51] sure, i do have that partition mounted as well [17:51] and i checked the time on the grub.cfg file [17:52] that file in /boot/grub/ is the one thats getting updated iwth grub-update [17:52] so, make sure you don't have a DIFFERENT grub.cfg in the OTHER /boot folder [17:52] right? [17:52] there are two? [17:52] only one boot [17:52] o ok [17:52] I think I see what you're going for [17:53] /boot and /home are shared [17:53] I'm going to go eat some food, I'll think about this some more [17:53] :D [17:53] k [17:53] why does the script say it's living in /dev/sda8 then? [17:53] shouldn't the kernel and initrd still be living in the /boot folder of dev/sda1? [17:53] I'm not certain [17:53] afk, brb 40 min or so [17:54] thats where the /boot partition is [17:55] er [17:55] sorry [17:55] /dev/sda8 is the root (/) for vivid [17:56] lordievader, http://pastebin.com/siS47nF4 [17:56] my grub.cfg [17:57] lordievader, your idea the other day got me tinkering [17:57] travnewmatic: How did you install Vivid? [17:57] What idea? [17:58] having multiple linux's mount the same /home [17:58] i installed vivid with a flash drive [17:59] travnewmatic: Grub doesn't find a kernel nor initramfs. [17:59] Where have you put those? [17:59] hmmmmmmm [18:00] those should be in boot [18:01] http://pastebin.com/zhLrziW9 [18:01] travnewmatic: In the same /boot or did you make a new one? [18:01] supposed to be the same boot [18:01] Jup, no Vivid kernel. [18:01] travnewmatic: Could you pastebin your partition layout? [18:01] seeing that now :| [18:02] un momento [18:02] http://pastebin.com/EtMRETJu [18:03] guys, i have a problem [18:03] problem with dependencies [18:03] trying to remove Plank from 15.04 new beta Mate ed [18:03] travnewmatic: That is df, not your partition layout [18:04] i was avoiding screencaps :D [18:04] but i can [18:04] plank depends on ubuntu-mate-desktop [18:04] it is not right i think [18:05] travnewmatic: parted /dev/sdX print [18:05] http://pastebin.com/iSbEaZfH [18:05] ah k [18:06] http://pastebin.com/HvjNvv5p [18:07] travnewmatic: I get the feeling the Vivid kernel didn't go to /boot. [18:07] Anyhow, got to go. [18:07] lordievader, i'm getting that feeling too [18:08] alright [18:08] will reinstall, making sure my boxes are checked and my t's are crossed [18:08] thanks for all the help guys, i'll let you know how it goes! [18:12] so during the install [19:19] Oh good [19:19] I was thinking that too [20:18] i'm running 15.04 on a third gen Lenovo ThinkPad Carbon X1, and audio has stopped playing from chrome, chromium, and firefox. help? [20:19] stef1a: does it play at all? [20:19] yup [20:19] have you tried restarting the browsers? [20:20] yes, and the machine [21:07] ok I think I understand a little better how things should work with a hybrid graphics system now [21:07] my machine is quite new so it should not have a hardware muxer. now I just need to figure out how to make the nvidia chip actually work. [21:07] Whoo, did you fix it? [21:07] Oh.. [21:08] Cheered to soon, didn't I. [21:08] heh [21:08] I just need to know how to switch from nouveau to the binary driver [21:09] xrandr --listproviders only gives me one provider [21:09] I got the feeling you first need to switch to the nVidia card from the Intel one. [21:09] no [21:09] in newer systems, the intel driver is *always* active [21:10] but applications can be made to render using the nvidia driver [21:10] that's how PRIME works apparently [21:10] Hmm, clearly I have no idea what I am talking about XD [21:10] what you said was true for older systems that have a hardware muxer [21:11] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/hybrid_graphics [21:18] Nasty stuff.