[21:38] <knome> slickymaster,
[21:38] <knome> was thinking we could have a spring on the community help wiki some day
[21:38] <knome> to do... something
[21:38] <knome> like, see what information is really useful there
[21:39] <knome> and up-to-date
[21:39] <knome> and try to gather an index of that
[21:39] <slickymaster> yes
[21:39] <slickymaster> I have all next weekend free knome
[21:39] <knome> since nobody is certain what the future of the wiki will be, we should at least do something useful with the content
[21:39] <knome> i don't know anything about my next weekend, but i plan to be the satruday off
[21:40] <knome> meaning that if i can get people here, i'll be off
[21:40] <slickymaster> this coming week will be difficult for me because of the implementation of the new framework
[21:40] <knome> that's fine
[21:40] <knome> it's not something to rush
[21:40] <slickymaster> but from friday until sunday I'll be here
[21:40] <slickymaster> right
[21:41] <knome> i guess maybe the good starting point would be to try to make the frontpage more useful
[21:41] <knome> it's currently linking to more and less useful pages
[21:41] <knome> that link to more and less useful pages themself
[21:41] <slickymaster> we'll we talked last year about doing this and we've been postponing it since them
[21:41] <knome> pleia2, i guess there is no update on the statistics from the IS?
[21:41] <slickymaster> s/we'll/we've
[21:41] <knome> yep
[21:42] <knome> we can even do a minisprint in 5 minutes
[21:42] <slickymaster> fine with me
[21:43] <slickymaster> Lag: 7.65 :P
[21:43] <knome> hah
[21:43] <knome> not minutes though?
[21:43] <slickymaster> is pleia2 around?
[21:43] <knome> probably not...
[21:43] <slickymaster> nopes, seconds
[21:44] <slickymaster> knome, we still have all this we collect last year -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster/LinksMergeSandbox
[21:44] <knome> yyyyeah.
[21:45] <knome> "Other pages in the wiki" should be somehow incorporated to the front page
[21:45] <slickymaster> is that an existent set of pages/links?
[21:46] <knome> ..what? :P
[21:46] <knome> it's in the linksmergesandbox
[21:46] <slickymaster> you're right
[21:46] <slickymaster> didn't see it
[21:47] <slickymaster> let me open the front page
[21:47] <knome> well wait that 5 mins first... :P
[21:47] <knome> or a few more
[21:48] <knome> actually, i'm good to go now
[21:48] <slickymaster> what's your idea for the Other pages...?
[21:48] <slickymaster> put it below Further topics?
[21:49] <knome> i don't know, but if people have thought they are important enough to link from "links" sections, maybe they are into something
[21:49] <slickymaster> yes
[21:49] <knome> just to start doing something useful, i opened the "Installation" page
[21:49] <knome> i'm checking it quickly
[21:49] <knome> and the links
[21:50] <knome> i already hit one link that links to a page that says "delete me"
[21:50] <slickymaster> was doing the some for the links in the Other pages
[21:50] <knome> works for me
[21:50] <slickymaster> first I hit -> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Signpost/Questions
[21:50] <slickymaster> last action dates to 2011
[21:50] <knome> the signpost pages...
[21:51] <slickymaster> yes,
[21:51] <knome> there are probably some good thoughts in there
[21:51] <knome> eg. like how to organize subjects
[21:51] <knome> but they are basically just reindexing other pages differently
[21:51] <slickymaster> and Content cleanup, Style cleanup tags
[21:52] <slickymaster> maybe we should check those, and any potential additions, before adding them to the front page
[21:52] <slickymaster> and of course do the same for the alreday linked in the front page
[21:52] <knome> yep
[21:53] <knome> the installation and switching pages look relatively good as they are now
[21:53] <slickymaster> yes
[21:53] <slickymaster> we could divide the tables between us
[21:54] <knome> i was thinking about dividing the tables - in another way
[21:54] <knome> what would you say if we added headers for each table
[21:54] <knome> eg. remove "Help topics"
[21:54] <knome> and change that to "Installation"
[21:54] <knome> then add "Hardware" for the next table
[21:55] <slickymaster> I don't see why not
[21:55] <knome> the preinstalled applications list is....
[21:55] <knome> shouldn't we just remove all of those and link to packages.ubuntu.com ?
[21:56] <knome> or do we think that the manual pick is somehow more useful or important?
[21:56] <slickymaster> yes, I think we should knome
[21:56] <knome> (which is last updated in 2013)
[21:56] <knome> ok, i'll start purging that stuff
[21:56] <slickymaster> I'd prefer it linked to packages.ubuntu.com
[21:57] <slickymaster> btw last move on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwitchingToUbuntu/FromMacOSX is yours, from 2013
[21:57] <knome> pleia2, sorry for the spam :]
[21:57] <slickymaster> lol
[21:57] <knome> slickymaster, yeah, that is when i was updating the icon stuff
[21:58] <knome> gosh, this is a tangled thing
[21:59] <slickymaster> what?
[21:59] <knome> the software listing
[22:00] <knome> the individual subcategories might be somewhat useful - so i intend to keep them
[22:00] <knome> just remove the alphabetical listing
[22:01] <slickymaster> damn
[22:01] <knome> well at least for starters :D
[22:01] <slickymaster> you're talking about https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Applications, aren't you?
[22:01] <knome> yeah.
[22:01] <slickymaster> let me refresh it
[22:02] <knome> in what way?
[22:02] <knome> i have the edit lock, keep away :P
[22:02] <slickymaster> I mean my browser
[22:02] <knome> ;)
[22:03] <slickymaster> you haven't commited it yet
[22:03] <knome> nope...
[22:03] <knome> i said it's tangled
[22:03] <slickymaster> lol
[22:03] <slickymaster> that's nothing for the likes of you
[22:05] <knome> can refresh now, first steps taken
[22:05] <slickymaster> ok
[22:06] <slickymaster> tic-toc tic-toc
[22:06] <knome> from the "External links", we could keep osalt.com and ubuntu apps dir
[22:06] <knome> though how the latter site says (c) 2012
[22:07] <knome> well, it's still linked from the main navi, so...
[22:07] <slickymaster> well, it states that it's supporting Lucid and later releases
[22:08] <slickymaster> yeah, but the others should be dropped
[22:08] <knome> yep
[22:09] <knome> another update landed
[22:10] <knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AccessoriesApplications
[22:10] <knome> talks about 8.04...
[22:11] <slickymaster> that one is really outdated
[22:11] <knome> this list could be much more useful if it was a list/table
[22:11] <knome> the same thing with all of those subpages
[22:14] <knome> what if we dropped those pages and linked to the corresponding packages.ubuntu.com places anyway?
[22:14] <slickymaster> isn't it weird that we're fiddling them and not updating the content in some of them
[22:14] <knome> i don't know how useful it is to update the application list now
[22:14] <knome> it'll be outdated in a year
[22:14] <knome> then it needs another update
[22:15] <knome> if we link it to a place that's kept up-to-date automatically, we save the work
[22:15] <slickymaster> hence linking it to packages.ubuntu.com is the only safe solution
[22:15] <knome> yep
[22:15] <knome> so, what about the links stufF?
[22:15] <slickymaster> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EducationApplications suffers from the same issue
[22:16] <knome> i think it's fine as it is, you should just land it *somewhere*
[22:16] <knome> then point all the link pages to that page
[22:17] <slickymaster> the links present here knome: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slickymaster/LinksMergeSandbox#Other_pages_in_the_wiki ?
[22:17] <knome> them, and the rest in the sandbox
[22:17] <knome> at least those that are processed
[22:17] <knome> even if it meant you landed a bunch of similar ones
[22:18] <slickymaster> maybe create a new page just with the usable links, since the the sandboc also contains a lot of garbage, links wise
[22:18] <knome> works for me
[22:19] <slickymaster> and land that page where knome? any ideas?
[22:20] <knome> no, just any
[22:20] <slickymaster> heh
[22:21] <slickymaster> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Links already exists
[22:22] <knome> you can overwrite that, or temporarily create another page
[22:23] <slickymaster> I think I'll opt for the latter
[22:23] <knome> :)
[22:23] <slickymaster> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ResourcesLinks
[22:23] <knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Games
[22:23] <knome> that might be of interest to some, so keeping for now
[22:24] <knome> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicsApplications
[22:24] <knome> has some potentially interesting links about licensing
[22:24] <slickymaster> yeah, gamers are more than many
[22:26] <slickymaster> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Programming, even though isn't touched since 2012 is a keeper imo
[22:26] <knome> oh
[22:26] <knome> i just redirected it
[22:26] <knome> i think it had a lot of babble
[22:27] <slickymaster> well the IDEs mentioned there are pretty much what's still used these days
[22:27] <knome> do you think it's worth reverting?
[22:27]  * knome shrugs
[22:27] <knome> libreoffice is still used today, but i still redirected the office page
[22:28] <slickymaster> where did you redirect the programming one?
[22:28] <knome> the main applications page
[22:28] <slickymaster> to where, that is
[22:28] <knome> as all the others
[22:28] <slickymaster> ok, don't revert it tehn
[22:29] <slickymaster> * then
[22:29]  * slickymaster is still waiting to loginb
[22:29] <knome> ouch
[22:31] <slickymaster> after all this time: Internal Server Error
[22:31]  * slickymaster reloads
[22:31] <knome> hah
[22:33] <slickymaster> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Servers is wat too extensive
[22:33] <slickymaster> s/wat/way
[22:33] <knome> wat?
[22:33] <knome> heh
[22:33] <knome> is there something to keep?
[22:33] <slickymaster> on that one knome?
[22:33] <knome> yes
[22:34] <slickymaster> I can only answer regarding what I do know knome
[22:34]  * knome looks
[22:34] <slickymaster> most of the stuff is unknown to me
[22:35] <slickymaster> in https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Servers#Database I'd keep everything
[22:35] <knome> well i mean
[22:35] <knome> those are available in packages.ubuntu.com if you search for databases, right?
[22:35] <slickymaster> not all
[22:35] <knome> aha..
[22:35] <knome> like what isnt?
[22:36] <slickymaster> I believe Ingres isn't
[22:36] <knome> yeah, that page is from 2009
[22:36] <slickymaster> PostgresSQL alno not, I think
[22:36] <knome> most be useful :)
[22:36] <knome> no?
[22:36] <knome> !info postresql
[22:36] <knome> no ubottu
[22:37] <slickymaster> It isn't knome
[22:37] <slickymaster> i checked
[22:37] <knome> aha
[22:37] <knome> then maybe that is worth keeping
[22:38] <knome> but then it becomes cherry-picking
[22:38] <slickymaster> yes
[22:38] <slickymaster> Oracle 1o g also isn't and should be kept
[22:38] <slickymaster> I work with it, is a dam good database
[22:39] <slickymaster> *damn
[22:39] <knome> :D
[22:39] <slickymaster> well, that page is really one to be cherry-picking
[22:39] <slickymaster> I'll do it while you do something else
[22:39] <knome> yeah, i'm working on the main page
[22:39] <knome> ...still
[22:40] <slickymaster> no I get a Proxy Error
[22:40] <slickymaster> I'm unable to login
[22:40] <slickymaster> Reason: Error reading from remote server
[22:40] <knome> :D
[22:43] <knome> so
[22:43] <knome> you are saying that we should keep the links to any software that isn't in the repositories?
[22:43] <slickymaster> yes
[22:43] <knome> okay
[22:43] <knome> then you might want to scour the pages i redirected
[22:43] <knome> i don't think there were many, but...
[22:44] <knome> and may i ask
[22:44] <knome> while i understand the logic for keeping those
[22:44] <knome> what's the goal?
[22:44] <slickymaster> making people know they they're usable in *buntu sor starters knome
[22:45] <knome> but we can't test that
[22:45] <knome> and even if somebody tested that, it might have been in 2009
[22:45] <slickymaster> me neither, just a few
[22:45] <knome> maybe the application is not maintained since 2010
[22:46] <slickymaster> those are maintained for sure, what we're not sure is if *bubtu still manages to accept some of them
[22:46] <knome> yeah
[22:46] <slickymaster> *buntu ecosystem
[22:46] <knome> so what's the goal?
[22:46] <knome> you said to let people know they are usable for ubuntu
[22:46] <knome> but... we don't know
[22:46] <slickymaster> don't know how to answer that from another point of view tbh
[22:47] <slickymaster> I see, and agree, with your point knome
[22:48] <slickymaster> and truth is the only way to circumvent this doubt is almost impossible
[22:48] <slickymaster> unless we go door to door asking
[22:48] <knome> yep
[22:48] <knome> and that means constant work if we want to keep the wiki up-to-date
[22:49] <slickymaster> drop them
[22:49] <slickymaster> constant and insane
[22:49] <knome> yeah
[22:49] <knome> which is why i dropped the pages i did
[22:49] <knome> but
[22:49] <slickymaster> that's it, I'm unable to log in at the wiki
[22:49] <knome> there's a point with keeping the server stuff
[22:50] <slickymaster> but not the web applications
[22:50] <knome> the point is, that page has links to actual guides on doing something else than just introduce the apps
[22:50] <knome> yeah...
[22:50] <slickymaster> for the same reason as above
[22:50]  * slickymaster agrees with the server
[22:50] <slickymaster> stuff
[22:51] <knome> so what we should have
[22:51] <knome> is a tutorial landing page
[22:52] <slickymaster> yes, the wat we're thinking it, yes
[22:52] <slickymaster> Damn s/wat/way
[22:53] <knome> haha
[22:53] <slickymaster> I'm becoming elfy... with fat fingers
[22:53] <knome> haha
[22:53] <knome> ;)
[22:53] <knome> don't tell elfy he has fat fingers
[22:53] <slickymaster> I know
[22:54] <knome> so, what did we achieve at the front pge :P
[22:55] <slickymaster> nothing much yet
[22:55] <knome> yeah...
[22:56] <slickymaster> \o/ logged in
[22:56] <knome> haha, great
[22:57] <slickymaster> going to take care of the links page
[22:57] <knome> nice
[23:09] <knome> slickymaster, feeling lucky? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecommendedApplications
[23:09] <knome> do we want to keep that?
[23:10] <knome> i would drop it...
[23:10] <slickymaster> so would I
[23:10] <knome> doing that
[23:11] <slickymaster> now that I'm logged I can't open the page for edit
[23:11] <slickymaster> :P
[23:11] <knome> lol
[23:11] <knome> see the apps main page
[23:12] <slickymaster> in the Apllications Guide section the numbered list is wrong knome
[23:12] <knome> it's not
[23:12] <knome> it's two lists
[23:12] <knome> the latter one is WIP
[23:12] <slickymaster> oh
[23:13] <knome> practically i'd like to drop most of it anyway
[23:23] <knome> you might have noticed i turned the front page stuff around a bit
[23:31] <slickymaster> haven't yet
[23:33]  * knome sighs
[23:33] <knome> maybe the world is a tiny bit better place now
[23:33] <knome> or then not
[23:34] <slickymaster> ok knome, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ResourcesLinks is ready
[23:35]  * knome checks
[23:35] <slickymaster> let me check the front page
[23:35] <knome> ok, looks good to me
[23:35] <knome> now let's forward the other pages to that page
[23:35] <slickymaster> you moved the applications to the first table
[23:35] <knome> yep
[23:35] <slickymaster> which is the proper place for it tbh
[23:36] <knome> and switched glossary/other resources boxes
[23:36] <slickymaster> yes, noticing that now
[23:36] <knome> also dropped several topics to the "further topics" table
[23:36] <knome> which is the crappety-crap dumpster now
[23:36] <knome> i mean :P
[23:36] <knome> the place for random links of course
[23:37] <slickymaster> and there are tons of those
[23:37] <knome> yeah
[23:37] <knome> there are even more that just aren't visible
[23:37] <knome> i guess the next useful thing
[23:37] <knome> would be to "find" all landing pages
[23:37] <knome> for whatever subject
[23:37] <knome> like mac support
[23:37] <knome> and start listing those in the front page
[23:38] <slickymaster> maybe we could engage krytarik to help us with that
[23:38] <knome> why not
[23:38] <slickymaster> if he'd be willing to
[23:39] <knome> everybody should help with that
[23:39] <knome> and we should send an email about that to the list
[23:39] <slickymaster> let me see if he's still around
[23:40] <slickymaster> knome are you going to forward the other pages to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ResourcesLinks
[23:41] <knome> or maybe we should make Links the mainpage
[23:41] <knome> and redirect the rest there
[23:41] <knome> what do you think?
[23:42] <slickymaster> tbh honest not sure what would be best
[23:42] <knome> links is shortest
[23:42] <knome> if we're going to redirect everything to one page anyway...
[23:42] <slickymaster> go with that then
[23:42] <knome> ok, shuffling
[23:45] <knome> done
[23:46]  * slickymaster checks
[23:46] <slickymaster> before doing that knome, I was taking a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Glossary
[23:46] <knome> yes?
[23:47] <slickymaster> and noticed that https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuncanLithgow (in the contributors at the bottom) doesn't exist
[23:47] <slickymaster> maybe I could remove it from there
[23:47] <knome> imo, the whole glossary page is... a bit in vain
[23:47] <knome> but we can keep it
[23:47] <knome> and you can definitely remove that note
[23:47] <slickymaster> oki
[23:49] <slickymaster> it's seems ok
[23:49] <knome> the links page could have some kind of intro
[23:49] <slickymaster> your shuffling
[23:49] <knome> of course it's ok! :P
[23:49] <slickymaster> lol
[23:50] <slickymaster> yeah, the current one is too 'in-your-face'