[00:00] <crepple> ali1234 We were the kids of farmers and farm workers. Like I said it probably wasn't anything like that in London
[00:01] <ali1234> fair enough
[00:01] <daftykins> crepple: what took you down to Jersey then? :)
[00:01] <crepple> Now you kow I'm a bumpkin :)
[00:01] <crepple> daftykins haha
[00:02] <daftykins> you don't get as sheltered as me, born and bred rock dweller
[00:03] <crepple> daftykins Do you have the usual UK ISPs down on the Island?
[00:03] <daftykins> no sir, #1 telco was Guernsey Telecoms years ago, which then got bought by Cable and Wireless
[00:03] <daftykins> a while back they rebranded to 'Sure' and were bought most recently by a Bahraini company
[00:04] <crepple> I know they have terrible coverage on Man
[00:04] <crepple> Mind you we only just got Fibre here in Worcestershire
[00:04] <daftykins> we also have local reps of Jersey Telecom that operate a second telco - and also an Indian Firm i think operating as 'Airtel Vodafone'
[00:05] <crepple> It's an interesting setup then
[00:05] <daftykins> so that's the main 3 mobile providers, with Sure and JT providing landline + broadband services too
[00:05] <daftykins> but Sure have all the exchanges so the others only provide services through them, so to speak
[00:06] <daftykins> right now we have 20Mb down 1Mb up ADSL2+ and 40 down 5 up VDSL2+ across the island
[00:06] <crepple> Do you have 4G? We don't, not really, allegedly we do but we don't
[00:06] <penguin42> daftykins: What does the VDSL2 actually get?
[00:06] <daftykins> penguin42: you mean real world download? gets the full 4MB/sec just fine
[00:06] <daftykins> in fact my phone line syncs at 50/20
[00:07] <crepple> It's still copper but using it better I think, right daftykins?
[00:07] <penguin42> daftykins: Interesting, I know a lot of VDSL users on the mainland who never get anywhere near the full rate
[00:07] <daftykins> probably bad internal phone wiring i'd think in the most case
[00:07] <daftykins> crepple: yeah, copper on the last stretch but might be fibre backed
[00:07] <penguin42> daftykins: I know someone getting 10MB down/1MB up - no it's not internal, it's external the existing road wiring and distance from the fibre termination points
[00:07] <daftykins> i think most runs are just short enough to the exchanges to be a decent speed without any roadside cabinet shenanigans
[00:08] <daftykins> penguin42: ah that's unlucky
[00:08] <daftykins> i wonder if they live in one of those nasty areas with copper coated aluminium lines
[00:08] <penguin42> daftykins: No, it's just crap BT installations
[00:08] <penguin42> not sure if it's CCA or not
[00:08] <ali1234> i get 1MB down and 0.1MB up
[00:09] <ali1234> on ADSL2+
[00:09] <penguin42> ali1234: What is that? Smoke signals?!
[00:09] <daftykins> ouch!
[00:09] <daftykins> how do you cope? i'd move :P
[00:09] <crepple> We get 76mb/s according to BT, but right here, going into my computer varies between 40 and 55
[00:09] <ali1234> and it's not my internal wiring either
[00:09] <ali1234> because i disconnected it all to test
[00:10] <ali1234> i just don't have any great need for high speed internet
[00:10] <daftykins> what's amazing is Jersey used to be ahead of us, but now we have FUP free services and they're lagging behind
[00:11] <daftykins> with all kinds of extra charges for data usage in peak rate hours
[00:11] <crepple> ali1234 I used to think that, but then I ditched Sky and started relying on IP tv services and I probably do now
[00:11] <ali1234> according to the BT estimate i "should" get 2MB down and 0.5MB up
[00:11] <ali1234> 1MB is enough for streaming video
[00:11] <daftykins> so 20/5 megabits?
[00:11] <ali1234> right
[00:12] <crepple> ali1234 Yeah I guess, but there are five people living here (we can't get the kids out)
[00:13] <daftykins> i can barely tolerate sharing with myself
[00:13] <daftykins> :D
[00:13] <ali1234> i only watch tv and films when they are on freeview
[00:14] <crepple> It is nice to be able to download distros in a few minutes - it's made me into a distro hopper of sorts.
[00:14] <crepple> ali1234 I'm not really the TV watcher. My extravagance is a Pure Contour WiFi radio
[00:14] <daftykins> cor yeah i used to hoard downloads on my file server all the time, now i just go straight online
[00:15] <daftykins> unless i already have them of course, i don't hit mirrors repeatedly for the same ISOs :>
[00:15] <ali1234> i actually do that
[00:15] <shauno> 150meg and I'm still a hoarder :/
[00:15] <ali1234> i always have to delete ISOs and then end up downloading them again
[00:16] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[00:16]  * daftykins looks at the 10TB RAID
[00:16] <daftykins> in many ways i see my setup as a legacy from the pre-netflix (and its' ilk) era
[00:17] <crepple> shauno ali1234 I'm somewhere in the middle. I save the ones I like. I wanted to try Unity Linux but by the time I got around to it, it's dormant - shame - it's a nice idea
[00:18] <shauno> nice ideas don't make distros .. the ability to herd cats makes distros
[00:19] <crepple> shauno Funny you should say that. An awful lot of stuff doesn't really work in Unity. You'd have to be alot more of a tinkerer than me to live with it
[00:20] <crepple> That's why I stick with the Debian branches, they are very reliable
[00:20] <daftykins> i just don't understand how you find the programs if you don't know their names
[00:20] <daftykins> the rare times i'm in a unity live session, i feel like i'm in Windows with the Super+R run dialogue box, not knowing the executable names
[00:20] <ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Linux
[00:20] <ali1234> not unity desktop
[00:20] <daftykins> but i've not touched it much to know
[00:20] <daftykins> oh
[00:21] <ali1234> and not the 3d engine either
[00:21] <ali1234> but i do agree
[00:21] <daftykins> my bad :D
[00:21] <crepple> daftykins Ah sorry. I meant Unity Linux - based on Mageia - it's another distro - maybe Ubuntu stamped on them for using that name LOL
[00:22] <daftykins> the game engine but is always confusing me too
[00:22] <daftykins> so that's 3 things with the same name D:
[00:22] <ali1234> there are some more
[00:23] <crepple> there was a 70s Jazz group with that name too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globe_Unity_Orchestra - I liked them :)
[00:25] <crepple> Ok that's a bit of stretch. They only had Unity in their name :)
[00:25] <ali1234> hehe this is proper crazy jazz
[00:26] <ali1234> is that guy screaming into a piano?
[00:28] <shauno> I don't see anyone screaming on the wiki page?
[00:28] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uMhfDPDjKU
[00:28] <daftykins> Ray Charles in the Blues Brothers: I'll sell you boys this piano for $1,500... hell i'm so nice, i'll throw in the black keys for free!
[00:28] <ali1234> 2 minutes in
[00:29] <daftykins> that's an impressive horn
[00:29] <shauno> I wonder if he's plucking the strings or such?
[00:29] <ali1234> no, he's just yelling
[00:29] <shauno> it does look like he's been hit with sea sickness though.  odd one.  I think that's a little too "free" for me :)
[00:29] <ali1234> later he starts hitting all the keys with a plank
[00:30] <crepple> Some very famous jazzers started their
[00:30] <shauno> the sax solo at 3:14 is 'interesting' too
[00:31] <daftykins> wow, i've not heard one redeeming note yet
[00:31] <ali1234> this is the type of jazz that people think of when they say they don't like jazz
[00:31] <shauno> hm, usually I'd be thinking of 'hold music' in such a context
[00:31] <crepple> ali1234 that's true - I think there's adirect line from their to lightning bolt
[00:32] <daftykins> if you used this as hold music, you'd never get any calls
[00:32]  * daftykins takes notes
[00:32] <shauno> I'm still not sure if that was meant to be a solo, or if everyone else just stopped to stare
[00:33] <crepple> daftykins it's real Marmite stuff I know. No conventional musical structure at all. Punk was quite traditional by comparison
[00:33] <daftykins> i love my dads comments on Punk "why do they seem in such a hurry to get the song over?"
[00:34] <crepple> I hold my hands up and admit I like some very challenging music :)
[00:34] <crepple> I like Otis Redding too though :)
[00:35] <daftykins> hmm at 6:15 he's beating all the keys on the piano with a large block of wood
[00:35] <shauno> well, that was interesting.  it made Screamin' Jay Hawkins look .. normal
[00:36] <crepple> Nowadays I'm more into Theo Parrish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nKzRhhMlaQ I've evolved :)
[00:36] <daftykins> i've stopped at 8:06
[00:37] <daftykins> trying now...
[00:37] <daftykins> i'll say one thing for Globe Unity... my cat didn't leave the room
[00:39] <ali1234> well speaking of challenging music, today i discovered The Hell. it's far too profane to even link here. but one of the songs contains the genius lines "if you want my last rolo / me and you go solo / this ain't no turkish delight / let's fight"
[00:39] <crepple> My dog has, but I know she'd gone to bed. She always goes up around this time
[00:39] <crepple> ali1234 that is clever
[00:40] <crepple> daftykins See you thought we were all into flower power back then :)
[00:41] <daftykins> ah my parents were much into the metal scene, so i didn't even encounter that side of it
[00:41] <ali1234> oh this is a song from 2014
[00:41] <crepple> The closest I got to metal was Cream and The Velvets heavy period
[00:42] <crepple> Jimi Hendrix isn't really metal is he? I was really into his stuff
[00:42] <ali1234> it's even funnier that they're making incredibly dated references to 80s advert campaigns that most of their audience have never heard of
[00:42] <daftykins> i always found genre pigeon holing tough :D
[00:43] <daftykins> holing 0o holeing? i don't even...
[00:43] <ali1234> metal didn't really exist back then... those guys kind of invented it
[00:49] <crepple> Talking of new things. I discovered Darktable and Xara Xtreme today. Are those apps highlighted in the software centre? They should be. I don't see the SC very often. I regressed to xfce
[00:49] <ali1234> darktable is
[00:50] <crepple> That's good. It's so good at what it does.
[00:51] <daftykins> what are these? :)
[00:51] <crepple> And I'm sorry to say but Xara is better than Inkscape, in most ways. Nothing is better in every way of course.
[00:51] <crepple> Graphics apps
[00:51] <daftykins> ah
[00:52] <penguin42> crepple: Does Xara still work?
[00:52] <penguin42> it's years since I've heard of it
[00:52] <crepple> Yeah
[00:52] <penguin42> I think the code was originally from Artworks on the Archimedes wasn't it?
[00:52] <penguin42> or at least the guys who did it
[00:52] <crepple> Might well be
[00:52] <crepple> It's very new to me
[00:53] <penguin42> it's been around for decades but never really looked finished to me
[00:54] <crepple> I suppose something is good if it does what you need at the time. So it was good for me
[00:54] <crepple> I was just reading the history penguin42 - I think you're right
[00:55] <penguin42> crepple: Artworks was pretty incredible for pretty graphical stuff - lots of fine shading etc on vector designs;
[00:58] <crepple> penguin42 it's dispiriting in one way. It hasn't been updated since 2008 and yet the tracing is so much better than Inkscape; it really shouldn't be
[00:59] <penguin42> crepple: The guys who did it were pretty good, I guess if you can figure out the algorithm and port to inkscape a lot of people would be happy
[00:59] <daftykins> :D
[01:00] <crepple> penguin42 I'd like that. I feel an affinity to Inkscape. I donated to them once or twice
[01:01] <daftykins> argh here we are one hour ahead now, clocks changed
[01:02] <shauno> oh sneaky beggars
[01:02] <crepple> Damn. I forgot that. I really ought to go to bed.
[01:02] <daftykins> :(
[01:02] <daftykins> g'night sir o/
[01:02] <crepple> Goodnight
[01:02] <zmoylan-pi> early start changing all the clocks around the house.. :-)
[01:03] <shauno> nah.  that's for stuff that worship at the temple of old & crusty.  I don't have anything that doesn't do itself :)
[01:04] <daftykins> i have a fridge and an oven that most likely will be disagreeing
[01:04] <daftykins> somehow the fridge always races ahead in only a week, too
[01:04] <shauno> why on earth does your fridge have a clock?
[01:04] <daftykins> yeah, i wondered that
[01:04] <daftykins> worse yet, i was there late at night once and saw it actually marquee scrolling the date
[01:05] <daftykins> which as i'd never seen it had one, was set to 1980
[01:06] <zmoylan-pi> i have an old vcr that i haven't disposed off yet that gets the date and time from teletext.  however it checks once a week at 12am.  so it's wrong for a week when the clocks shift
[01:09] <penguin42> it gets it from teletext ? You've still got teletext?
[01:10] <daftykins> yeah isn't that all dead?
[01:10] <zmoylan-pi> no, when i bought it 15+ years ago it did.  no analog signal here anymore.  haven't had a tv to connect it to for about 5 years
[01:11] <zmoylan-pi> i do miss teletext though as it was a fairly decent service
[01:11] <zmoylan-pi> lots of information onhand for no datacharges
[01:11] <daftykins> i used to hate the way you'd pick a page and it seemed to always hit the one after, then take a while to cycle through the 100 again :>
[01:12] <penguin42> yes and it was much more per page than the current system
[01:12] <daftykins> remember those "infobursts" they used to broadcast at the end of programs, especially nature ones? :)
[01:12] <zmoylan-pi> and hoping your freezeframe of it would be readable
[01:13] <daftykins> hehehe
[01:13] <daftykins> head cleaning tapes at the ready
[01:14] <zmoylan-pi> or finding someone has taped over the last few minutes of a show...
[01:14] <daftykins> i bet my old man would still be trying to record films now if they had things wired up right
[01:18] <penguin42> I think my dad still does
[01:18] <daftykins> :)
[01:21] <zmoylan-pi> a proper top loading 80s vcr? :-)
[01:22] <daftykins> my parents early JVC was a formidable thing, i can still hear its' series of noises as it went through the motions of most commands
[01:22] <daftykins> probably still working today too
[01:41] <shauno> still banging on this api thing.  having no idea what I'm going isn't always a good thing :/
[02:00] <daftykins> you can do it!
[02:12] <shauno> I've finally got to the point where it loads the playlist into a page.  and clicking on a track plays it.
[02:13] <shauno> I woudl say 'baby steps', but thanks to the current obsession with getting 'code' into schools, even toddlers laugh at my attempts at python
[02:21] <daftykins> d'aww
[02:21] <daftykins> don't worry, if you knew my coding experience you'd cry blood tears
[03:56] <shauno> hm.  I'm blaming the time change for it being 5am
[04:00] <mappps> hi all
[04:03] <daftykins> heya
[04:03] <daftykins> shauno: totally
[04:03] <daftykins> saw it at 1am but they can prove nothing!
[04:03] <mapps> still not got this proxypass working
[04:03] <mapps> and i really dont see why..ive read the mod_proxy and proxypass pages
[04:04] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/dr96kfthy2iqyx1/TheBluesBrothers.mkv?dl=0
[04:04] <mapps> http://parrots.zapto.org is the site .. qwebirc running on the same host on 9090 localhost:9090 - setup a ProxyPass /qweb http:/localhost:9090 and also ProxyPassReverse /qweb http://localhost:9090
[04:04] <mapps> any ideas?:(
[04:05] <daftykins> i don't have a clue what that is
[09:39] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:43] <SuperEngineer> Yestrday morning I realised the new Formula1.com live timing no longer requires java... yesterday afternoon I finally removed java from my pooter... I feel so clean!!
[10:20] <knightwise> morning
[11:35]  * penguin42 yaaaawwwwnnnns - who stole our hour!
[12:51] <knightwise> afternoon peeps
[12:51]  * penguin42 yawns at knightwise
[12:54] <knightwise> hey penguin42 , how are you dude !
[12:55]  * penguin42 still trying to wake up at 2pm :-)
[12:55] <knightwise> haha .. thats rich
[12:55] <knightwise> been playing around with the 15.04 beta
[12:56] <penguin42> yeh that's running on here
[12:56] <knightwise> want to see if I can get the NEXT interface working on my Surface pro 1 ,
[12:57] <penguin42> openstep or something?
[13:06] <knightwise> well ,if possible , the touch/windowed interface
[13:23] <Sebsebsebb> Hi
[13:24] <Sebsebsebb> Popey ping
[15:49] <ENRU> what is the command to show hidden startup applications
[16:44] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Meow m
[16:44] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I meant to backspace and delete, pressed enter... oh well
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> also, hu
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> hi
[16:54] <zmoylan-pi> ctrl-a ctrl-e and ctrl-u are your friends for console based irc clients :-)
[17:30]  * ChloeWolfieGirl uses Xchat-Gnome irc
[19:36] <diddledan> has something changed at any point to cause /etc/init.d scripts that are symlinked into /etc/rc3.d (and others) correctly using `update-rc.d foo defaults` or similar incantation to fail to start on reboob?
[19:36] <diddledan> it seems it just doesn't start hhvm for e.g.
[19:37] <diddledan> (hhvm is shipped from upstream in .deb packages with /etc/init.d script and not /etc/init script)
[19:43] <daubers> Someone put the kettle on
[19:43] <diddledan> did they?
[19:43] <elfy> yes
[19:43] <daubers> Please can someone do so
[19:44] <diddledan> aah
[19:44] <daubers> pls be delivering me tea pls
[19:44] <daubers> much thanks
[19:46]  * diddledan throws tea at daubers 
[19:46] <daubers> :(
[19:46] <daubers> what a waste of good tea
[19:46] <diddledan> TEAFIGHT
[19:46] <daubers> What are you? American?
[19:47] <diddledan> no they just dump it in the sea
[19:47] <zmoylan-pi> if it's tea in pressed brick format it's still usable
[19:48] <shauno> I mounted my camera on my roomba because I was bored.  now I have to mop under the couches :(
[19:49] <zmoylan-pi> but you now have sentry #1...
[19:52] <zmoylan-pi> just a few scripts to send images to your email if it detects movement...
[19:55] <shauno> it more had me thinking I need to mount a duster ontop of the roomba so it can reach the skirting boards
[20:03] <zmoylan-pi> a spinning feather duster as it moves along the boundaries
[20:08] <daftykins> shauno: did y'see the tale of the poor Korean lass that had her hair eaten by one?
[20:08] <daftykins> she unwittingly had a nap on the floor whilst the little guy was on patrol
[20:09] <daftykins> cue robotic: "OM NOM NOM"
[20:10] <diddledan> shauno: what about a spinning blade of doom?
[20:11] <diddledan> daftykins: if only it had had a spinning blade of doom!
[20:12] <daftykins> diddledan: Indiana Jones and the Roomba of doom
[20:13] <zmoylan-pi> add a self righting mechanism and robot wars can have a whole new class roomba warriors...
[20:13] <daftykins> 8D
[20:13] <daftykins> doubles up with cleaning the arena floor, magic
[20:14]  * daftykins installs Windows 10 TP build 10041 
[20:14] <daftykins> ugh at not being available as an ISO
[20:15] <shauno> I dunno about spinning .. I want it to pick stuff up, not chuck it :)
[20:16] <diddledan> but blade of dooooom!
[20:16] <shauno> no blades .. it's at cable-height  lol
[20:16] <diddledan> even more fun
[20:17] <daftykins> for anyone that watches Archer, i'm suddenly seeing a connection between diddledan and Krieger
[20:17]  * daftykins squints
[20:20] <daftykins> actions which have not been my best moments: aiming my laptops fan vent toward my thermostat 0o
[20:26] <zmoylan-pi> leaving floppies on stereo speakers o/
[20:27] <diddledan> fool
[20:48] <zmoylan-pi> i had left my audio cassettes with spectrum games there all the time
[22:43] <daftykins> diddledan: can you draw a recycle bin? https://www.dropbox.com/s/96x7rs3f9kx61kr/win10.PNG?dl=0
[22:44] <m0nkey_> are them the new icons on Windows 10?
[23:23] <daftykins> m0nkey_: yeah, thus far at least. given it's a tech preview and subject to change