[04:17] <imakesense> Is there a distribution of Ubuntu that has good driver support for older systems? My laptop is 7 years old, and I'm worried that I might mess something up that might be a minor problem with the wireless driver. I'm reinstalling Lubuntu aftering getting the driver to completely disable my wifi connectivity.
[04:34] <RAOF> imakesense: Driver support is identical across all Ubuntus.
[05:40] <pitti> Good morning
[06:30] <didrocks> good morning
[06:34] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ça va ?
[06:35] <didrocks> pitti: ça va, il fait très beau contrairement à hier, et toi ?
[06:35] <pitti> didrocks: encore beaucoup du vent ici ..
[06:36] <pitti> didrocks: je me sense mieux qu'hier, merci !
[08:06] <Laney> oh hi!
[08:06] <didrocks> hey Laney, how's life?
[08:06] <Laney> first climbing again last night \m/
[08:06] <Laney> so pretty good
[08:06] <Laney> you?
[08:06] <didrocks> nice!
[08:07] <didrocks> nothing fancy, the weather was pretty bad
[08:07] <didrocks> but I have faith in today :)
[08:07] <didrocks> Laney: oh btw, didn't want to bother you on first day you came back, but I tried your g-t wrapper with my old weechat desktop
[08:07] <didrocks> didn't really work :/
[08:07] <Laney> can you share it?
[08:07] <Laney> orrrrrrrrrr fix it :)
[08:07] <didrocks> (can be the desktop file)
[08:08] <didrocks> Laney: I'm on other things, I only tried in guest, I have pastebinit yesterday, one sec
[08:09] <didrocks> Laney: ok, faster to reshare: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10710931/
[08:09] <seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
[08:11] <Laney> yo seb128
[08:11] <Laney> doing good
[08:11] <Laney> it's rrrrrrrrrreally windy!
[08:12] <seb128> same here
[08:12] <seb128> hate the wind
[08:22] <Laney> bah
[08:22] <Laney> why do i still use the pandaboard
[08:33] <Laney> didrocks: can you see what happens if you run that Exec line manually?
[08:33] <Laney> perhaps you don't have such a profile
[08:57] <seb128> Mirv, hey, I would like to backport a qtbase patch to vivid, can I do that (I see there are some silos with it already, but they don't seem ready to land)?
[08:59] <Mirv> seb128: yes, it's possible (especially if it's desktop/XCB only or such)
[08:59] <seb128> Mirv, it does, it's https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/109570/2//ALL,unified
[08:59] <Mirv> the silo 018 needs more patches
[08:59] <seb128> Mirv, fix to have proper themed cursors
[08:59] <seb128> I debugged that some week ago and suggested a patch upstream
[08:59] <Mirv> seb128: right, looks good. go ahead.
[09:00] <seb128> the patch was not right but it was enough to get somebody to fix it properly ;-)
[09:00] <seb128> Mirv, thanks
[09:00] <seb128> Mirv, should I just dput in a silo? or how does that work?
[09:00] <Mirv> seb128: qt is done via dput:s yes
[09:01] <Mirv> then testing + publish
[09:01] <seb128> k
[09:01] <seb128> so I use the gdoc to claim a silo/put a source upload in there
[09:01] <seb128> and then dput my change?
[09:01] <Mirv> yes
[09:01] <seb128> thanks!
[09:01] <Mirv> I think you can do without the -gles counterpart since it's desktop only. so just qtbase-opensource-src.
[09:01] <Mirv> no problem.
[09:02] <seb128> great
[09:43]  * Laney syncs .0 releases of some stuff
[09:44] <Laney> here comes the release!
[10:54] <Laney> oh what
[10:57] <didrocks> Laney: back from running, yeah, there isn't that profile anymore (but we got it before this g-t update)
[10:57] <didrocks> or at least, the issue was ignored
[10:57] <Laney> what issue?
[10:58] <Laney> unknown profiles?
[10:59] <didrocks> Laney: yep
[11:00] <Laney> ah yes
[11:00] <Laney> it seems it used the default one then
[11:00] <Laney> gah, why did they make so many things fatal :(
[11:00] <didrocks> maybe the wrapper should get the same behavior? (so that all backward compatibility is kept in the wrapper)
[11:00] <didrocks> if you can detect the installed profiles outside of g-t of course
[11:00] <Laney> sounds nasty
[11:01] <didrocks> well, less nasty than failing for people upgrading
[11:01] <Laney> false choice
[11:01] <Laney> the fix would be to put the old behaviour back in gnome-terminal
[11:01] <didrocks> do you think it's better? I would prefer to have all the compability layer a the same place
[11:02] <didrocks> at*
[11:02] <didrocks> but I guess it's your thing, so what you think is the best will do :)
[11:02] <Laney> rather than reimplementing the profile finding logic, yes
[11:03] <Laney> larsu: do you think that gnome-terminal upstream would take a patch to put the old behaviour back?
[11:03] <Laney> they made it bail out if the specified profile isn't found instead of using the default
[11:31] <larsu> Laney: sorry, lunch. When was this changed?
[11:31]  * larsu is still having trouble getting his patches accepted
[11:31] <Laney> is 3.6..3.14 a valid answer :)
[11:31] <Laney> ^?
[11:31] <larsu> haha
[11:31] <larsu> I'll have a look at git blame
[11:32] <larsu> maybe there's a bug linked
[11:38] <larsu> Laney: the check was added in this commit: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-terminal/commit/?id=f728cf6ce5e3668bbe94e7543b12889e8c936443
[11:38] <larsu> a long time ago...
[11:38] <larsu> looks like 3.7.1 or so
[11:39] <Laney> oh well, I'll just file it
[11:43] <larsu> Laney: want a patch?
[11:43] <larsu> in fact, I wonder if opening the default profle would be the correct thing to do..
[11:44] <Laney> it is if you want to keep compatibility
[11:44] <larsu> I'm arguing this was a bug before
[11:44] <larsu> and why would anyone rely on that anyway?
[11:46] <Laney> The whole point of this exercise is to keep old launchers working
[11:46] <Laney> Introducing new failure scenarios in commandline option handling is the opposite of that
[11:47] <Laney> I guess didrocks decided to delete this profile at some point and didn't update the launcher
[11:47] <didrocks> Laney: looking at the name of the profile, I guess it was rather a default one that we dropped
[11:48] <Laney> dunno
[11:48] <Laney> Either way it should be fatal
[11:48] <didrocks> I would have called it something with "foo" or "bar" :p
[11:49] <larsu> Laney: fair enough. I think we should still open an error dialog (or an info bar) in that case
[11:50] <Laney> that'd be possible
[11:50] <larsu> "no such profile 'foo'. [profile preferences button]"
[11:50] <didrocks> yeah, sounds like the best plan
[11:50] <Laney> it does this if you specify a command that doesn't exist
[11:50] <didrocks> but not dropping the user out of blue
[11:50] <larsu> didrocks: indeed. Not showing anything is wrong as well
[11:50] <didrocks> larsu: don't listen to me too much, I'm "through the wind" today :p
[11:51] <larsu> didrocks: so am I. Figuratively and literally
[11:51] <larsu> (just walked back from lunch with dholbach and it was very windy)
[11:51] <larsu> (and feel like shit today)
[11:51] <didrocks> you all say it's windy, it's clearly not here, I wonder when we'll get it
[11:51]  * didrocks hugs larsu
[11:51] <larsu> south of france doesn't get wind
[11:52]  * larsu hugs didrocks
[11:53] <didrocks> I don't know about the south of france, but lyon doesn't today for sure
[11:53]  * Laney looks at a map
[11:54] <mzanetti> hey, I've just upgraded my VM with unity8 in it
[11:54] <mzanetti> can't start any apps
[11:54] <mzanetti> and there's no ~/.cache/upstart/application-click....log files
[11:54] <mzanetti> probably because of the systemd migration
[11:55] <mzanetti> any hints on how I cat fix that?
[11:55] <larsu> mzanetti: got something in the journal? `journalctl`
[11:55] <mzanetti> kernel messages
[11:55] <didrocks> hum, the upstart logs should still be there, upstart is used in the user session
[11:56] <seb128> mzanetti, sudo systemctl enable cgmanager?
[11:56] <didrocks> seb128: didn't we fixed it?
[11:56] <mzanetti> seb128, ok, did that... what should that change?
[11:56] <mzanetti> do I need to restart the session?
[11:56] <seb128> mzanetti, no, that should work if cgmanager is running
[11:57] <seb128> didrocks, not for upgraders
[11:57] <didrocks> that would mean mzanetti didn't upgrade for a very long time :)
[11:57] <mzanetti> true
[11:57] <mzanetti> 2 months or so
[11:57] <seb128> well, could be another issue
[11:57] <seb128> but likely that
[11:57] <seb128> mzanetti, does it fix it?
[11:58] <mzanetti> can't get past the greeter any more
[11:58] <mzanetti> rebooting the VM
[12:01] <mzanetti> seb128, that did it, yes
[12:01] <mzanetti> thanks a lot!
[12:02] <seb128> mzanetti, yw!
[12:03] <mzanetti> If I had three wishes: 1) keyboard layout 2) no double greeter 3) GRID_UNIT_PX export depending on the scale factor setting
[12:03] <mzanetti> :D
[12:04] <Laney> didrocks: pushed gnome-terminal (no banner yet, for a later date) - please try
[12:04] <seb128> mzanetti, 1) and 2) are also on our wishlist (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=unity8-desktop)
[12:04]  * Laney writes a status report & emails it ;-)
[12:05] <seb128> today is going to be a short meeting
[12:05] <mzanetti> hmm... does keyboard input work in apps for you guys?
[12:05] <seb128> seems like most people prefer to enjoy the windy weather than to join the meeting :-(
[12:05] <seb128> mzanetti, wfm
[12:05] <Laney> considering whether to bike to the bike meeting in the wind or get the bus :p
[12:05] <didrocks> Laney: please include an unicode char, I was only able to cover you once on this :p
[12:05] <Laney> oh man
[12:05] <Laney> you did?
[12:06] <didrocks> of course!
[12:06] <Laney> :D
[12:06] <seb128> Laney going to be late for the meeting *again*
[12:06] <seb128> :-)
[12:06] <didrocks> Laney: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/24/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t15:42
[12:07] <Laney> your irish roots showing through
[12:07] <didrocks> Laney: seems you are the only one who got the reference :)
[12:10] <Laney> ;)
[12:10] <seb128> it's funny, googling for "☘" returns 0 result
[12:10] <seb128> you are unknown to google!
[12:12] <Laney> right
[12:12] <didrocks> Laney: is the addition of dh-exec is wanted?
[12:12] <Laney> ttyl!
[12:12] <didrocks> (not urgent)
[12:12] <Laney> ah no
[12:12] <Laney> I was using that initially
[12:12] <Laney> good stuff
[12:12] <didrocks> I like it as well
[12:12] <didrocks> Laney: no worry, removing and pushing
[12:12] <didrocks> go ;)
[12:13] <Laney> i did it :P
[12:13] <didrocks> k ;)
[12:13] <Laney> it is cool to be able to rename files when installing them
[12:13] <Laney> I forgot why I couldn't use it here
[12:13] <Laney> perhaps because cdbs
[12:13] <Laney> bye!
[12:13] <didrocks> can be, more integrated with dh7 anyway
[12:13] <didrocks> see you!
[12:26] <didrocks> Laney: ok, so, the profile is now fallbacked to default and weechat is launched. However, the matching isn't correct (it matches to a g-t window)
[13:08] <seb128> tedg, hey, could you comment on bug #1436351?
[13:09] <seb128> tedg, seems it's fixed in vivid, but unsure with what change of that's easy to backport to rtm, also if that's correct design wise to have the same icon for silent mode and muted
[13:10] <seb128> bug #1367818 seems similar and waiting from input to mpt it seems
[13:10] <tedg> seb128, Yeah, we could, but don't you think we'll just pick up vivid here in a few weeks...
[13:10] <seb128> tedg, can you confirm at least that what it does is what the design suggest and the bug got fixed in vivid?
[13:10] <tedg> Yes
[13:11] <tedg> BTW, I was talking to the designers about it in another channel, so let me finish that conversation first :-)
[13:11] <seb128> thanks
[13:11] <seb128> lol
[13:11] <mpt> Whether a phone is in Silent Mode, and whether its volume is zero, are two different things
[13:11] <mpt> It still plays music and alarms in Silent Mode
[13:12] <larsu> “silent mode” doesn't sound like it should play alarms..
[13:13] <seb128> yeah, I would say it shouldn't play anything which is not trigger by an user action
[13:13]  * larsu reads the spec
[13:13] <seb128> because that's the thing you turn on when at a spectacle or movie
[13:13] <larsu> hm, interesting concept. Very confusing though
[13:13] <seb128> larsu, oh?
[13:14] <larsu> seb128: the name is confusing, and the fact that there's two different concepts of the phone being silent/mute
[13:14] <seb128> larsu, is there an explanation of what those modes are supposed to be?
[13:14] <seb128> what "silent mode" is for exactly?
[13:15] <larsu> yes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Sound#Silent_Mode
[13:15] <seb128> like should I use silent mode or mute my phone when I'm at a movie?
[13:15] <seb128> thanks
[13:15] <larsu> mute
[13:15] <larsu> but this is exactly what I mean — it's confusing
[13:15] <larsu> imho, mute ought to be enough
[13:16] <seb128> well, mute is also muting your morning alarm clock though?
[13:17] <mpt> Yes, it would be
[13:17]  * mpt never uses mute
[13:18] <seb128> so if you at at a movie and have an calender invite to an hangout you forgot to delete your phone is playing sound?
[13:18] <seb128> it's a bit embarassing :-)
[13:18]  * seb128 wants his phone to vibrate in such cases
[13:18] <larsu> seb128: you can't have both this and the morning alarm clock...
[13:18] <larsu> unless you treat alarms specially
[13:19]  * didrocks toss in "priority mode"
[13:19] <larsu> (which I would)
[13:19] <mpt> seb128, that wouldn’t be an alarm, that would be a calendar notification
[13:19] <larsu> didrocks: ya, this is where the fun starts
[13:19] <seb128> right
[13:19] <mpt> bug 1410874
[13:19] <larsu> I think android is starting to get it very right
[13:19] <seb128> by doing what?
[13:19] <larsu> and it doesn't need two different mute concepts
[13:20]  * didrocks likes what android does as well
[13:20] <seb128> what are they doing?
[13:20] <larsu> seb128: there's just volume up/down. All the way down is mute and vibrate
[13:21] <larsu> alarms are not affected by mute
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/use-androids-priority-mode-so-notifications-dont-wake-y-1681095117 seems to be a good explanation
[13:21] <seb128> didrocks, I was reading that
[13:21] <mpt> larsu, so how quiet does the volume have to be before alarms stop being affected by it?
[13:21] <larsu> when changing volume, you have choices NONE PRIORITY ALL
[13:21] <seb128> seems complex/things need to be configured
[13:21] <larsu> mpt: they are never affected
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: not for going to the cinema
[13:21] <didrocks> you just push volume down
[13:22] <mpt> You can’t change the volume of alarms at all?
[13:22] <didrocks> "None" -> 2h
[13:22] <larsu> mpt: there's a separate alarm volume you can change in the settings
[13:22] <didrocks> and you are done
[13:22] <mpt> heh
[13:22] <mpt> Well, that’s one way of doing it
[13:22] <didrocks> seb128: you need to configure in some case, like mine is going in priority mode from 22h to 7h
[13:22] <larsu> mpt: it's the simplest solution I have ever seen that covers all the cases
[13:22] <didrocks> clearly
[13:23] <mpt> Oh, so Priority Mode is Android’s equivalent to Do Not Disturb
[13:23] <didrocks> you can then really tweak it for particular case
[13:23] <seb128> didrocks, seems as tedious as the current mode
[13:23] <seb128> especially if you don't go to bed at regular hours
[13:23] <seb128> like some days I go to bed at 22:30 some days at 1am
[13:23] <seb128> so I start the dnd mode manually anyway
[13:23] <larsu> seb128: I don't even bother with that, just set it manually at night when I set my alarm
[13:23] <didrocks> seb128: you still have your phone showing the notification, just not buzzing/biping
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks, right, but I want sound until I go to bed
[13:24] <didrocks> well, do then what larsu does
[13:24] <seb128> otherwise the phone is on the other side of the room and I miss calls
[13:24] <seb128> well, I don't set my alarm at nights
[13:24] <larsu> yeah, I'm in the same boat as seb128. Going to bed very irregularly
[13:24] <larsu> and need notifications until I do
[13:24] <didrocks> "need"
[13:24] <larsu> s/need/want
[13:24] <seb128> want
[13:24] <didrocks> ;)
[13:25] <didrocks> I don't care if I don't have notifications biping/buzzing, i'm just watching my phone before going to bed to see I didn't miss anything
[13:25] <larsu> and that's fine
[13:25] <didrocks> and I have a white list of people that are still ringing, even in priority mode
[13:25] <seb128> yeah, everybody has different use
[13:25] <didrocks> right, and I think what they have cover those
[13:25] <didrocks> contrary to ours
[13:25] <seb128> I think the google one is still tedious
[13:26] <larsu> right, my real gripe here was with mpt's two different concepts that are named the same
[13:26] <seb128> not discussing it's better than we do (ours is basic)
[13:26] <didrocks> ours don't cover those cases
[13:26] <larsu> "silent mode" and "mute" — couldn't tell you which is which
[13:26] <seb128> right
[13:26] <seb128> our is less good
[13:26] <seb128> but I don't find the google one great either
[13:26] <seb128> or at least it's still tedious
[13:26] <didrocks> seb128: my bet is that I think most of people just use the "None" -> X hours
[13:26] <seb128> yeah, could be
[13:27] <didrocks> I wouldn't do that every evening though
[13:27] <larsu> X hours is *perfect* for going to the movies or some event
[13:27] <didrocks> seems like larsu can:)
[13:27] <larsu> I always forget to reenable sound after such a thing
[13:27] <didrocks> same for me
[13:27] <seb128> same here
[13:27] <mpt> larsu, per spec, the word “Mute” only ever appears on the PC, while “Silent Mode” only ever appears on the phone
[13:27] <larsu> didrocks: I have a habit of setting an alarm every evening anyway
[13:27] <didrocks> larsu: crazy dude! :)
[13:28] <seb128> well, you sort of do if you go to bed to changing hours and want to adjust your wake up time in consequence
[13:29] <mpt> larsu, I don’t know how I’m going to conv3rgeNCE!!!1 them yet, but it’s not the case that there are two similarly-named things in the UI on any device :-)
[13:29] <larsu> mpt: oh, I was reading the section *above* "Phone", which mentions "Mute (not to be confused with Silent Mode)"
[13:29] <larsu> mute on the PC is kind of silly anyway
[13:29]  * larsu would be fine if we dropped it
[13:29] <larsu> but then, many laptops have hardware mute keys
[13:30] <mpt> Yeah, it exists half as a bit of padding to stop the volume slider from being first menu item
[13:30] <larsu> which behave differently from the way the spec describes
[13:30] <larsu> mpt: haha, cool
[13:30] <mpt> larsu, so fix bug 552920 and I’ll remove it ;-)
[13:34] <larsu> mpt: fixing it in gtk won't be enough, because unity's panel doesn't use gtk's menu bar (it pops open the menus itself)
[13:35] <larsu> mpt: also, we're moving away from traditional menus and unity7
[13:35] <mpt> That’s why it’s also open on Unity, presumably
[13:35] <larsu> I guess?!
[13:35] <larsu> doesn't make sense (and we don't have the time) to put effort into that
[13:35] <mpt> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[13:35] <larsu> and I'm pretty sure unity8 won't have menus for indicators ;)
[13:36] <larsu> mpt: we could go all gnome shell and have one system menu :P
[13:36]  * larsu know you love that
[13:36] <mpt> ONE GIANT SCROLLING MENU
[13:36] <mpt> HORIZONTALLY SCROLLING
[13:37] <larsu> yes please!
[13:37] <larsu> scrolling is so much fun
[13:37] <larsu> we could have some cool scrollbars even
[13:41]  * larsu has the feeling that was one troll too many…
[13:43] <mpt> It’ll be like Netscape 3 for Unix, where each menu had its own scrollbar
[14:02] <desrt> morning peeps
[14:02] <didrocks> morning desrt!
[14:02] <desrt> happy monday
[14:03] <didrocks> happy *your* monday :)
[14:03] <desrt> why, thank you :)
[14:03] <didrocks> larsu: seb128: did you notice a slower boot since systemd -5ubuntu1?
[14:03] <desrt> oh.  wait.
[14:03] <desrt> it's tuesday!
[14:04] <desrt> somehow i had it in my head that it's monday, while at the same time knowing that today is meeting day
[14:04] <desrt> that's interesting
[14:04] <seb128> didrocks, I didn't pay attention much, my boot has been slower for some weeks but I didn't sit down to investigate yet
[14:04] <desrt> so, happy tuesday :)
[14:04] <seb128> desrt, hey, happy tuesday ;-)
[14:05] <didrocks> desrt: hence the "your", I'm not willing to disturb you with such details :p
[14:05] <desrt> didrocks: all makes sense now.  thanks for the polite approach :)
[14:05] <didrocks> seb128: autopkgtests failing on -5ubuntu1 FTW btw \o/
[14:05] <didrocks> ;)
[14:05] <larsu> didrocks: nope
[14:05] <seb128> didrocks, what's the issue?
[14:05] <seb128> didrocks, just on performance regression?
[14:05] <larsu> hi desrt!
[14:05] <didrocks> fsck is running twice, plymouth starts later
[14:05] <seb128> do we have stable metrics for those?
[14:06] <desrt> hi seb, larsu :)
[14:06] <didrocks> (and I noticed as I'm debugging some of my autopkgtests expecting to kill plymouth failing)
[14:07] <didrocks> so, more a side-effect actually, but I clearly have a 30s slower boot with -5ubuntu1 on autopkgtests
[14:07] <didrocks> (goind from 2s to 32s)
[14:07] <didrocks> going*
[14:08] <seb128> didrocks, how come it migrated to release if autopkgtests are failing btw?
[14:08] <didrocks> not sure, maybe it's been overriden?
[14:09] <didrocks> we have one failing test on i386 for quite some time (only on the infra)
[14:09] <didrocks> but this failure is on both amd64 and i386
[14:09] <seb128> pitti, ^ did you override failing systemd tests?
[14:10] <didrocks> seb128: pitti warned me about the failing test, so I guess he is already aware
[14:10] <seb128> k
[14:10] <didrocks> (and quite busy AFAIK)
[14:10] <seb128> didrocks, I'm going to do a bootchart next time I reboot
[14:11] <didrocks> seb128: comparing with -4ubuntu10 would be interesting
[14:11] <didrocks> but anyway, we need to find out why this happens
[14:11]  * didrocks logs at his system logs now
[14:13] <pitti> seb128: I think adam did
[14:13] <seb128> k
[14:48] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: desktop meeting in 1/2 an hour? I will be around.
[14:53] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, yes
[14:58] <desrt> i will also be around!
[15:30] <seb128> attente, desrt, didrocks, Laney?, larsu, qengho, Sweet5hark1, tkamppeter, hey, it's meeting time :-)
[15:30] <qengho> Hey hey
[15:30] <didrocks> hey!
[15:30] <seb128> let's get started
[15:30] <seb128> attente, hey
[15:31] <larsu> hey!
[15:31] <attente> seb128: hey, not much from me
[15:31] <attente> debugging for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1431811
[15:31] <attente> gnome-terminal stopped working under mir proving server, it's blocking progress on getting ibus working under mir
[15:31] <seb128> did we get any mir update recently?
[15:31] <seb128> or is that trunk?
[15:31] <seb128> did you talk to the mir team about it?
[15:31] <attente> i'm running from trunk
[15:32] <attente> looking at it seems to be a dbus issue of some sort
[15:32] <seb128> hum, k
[15:32] <seb128> bisect time? ;-)
[15:33] <seb128> I commented on the mr for the bug you just mentioned, please split the region panel warning fixes in another changeset
[15:33] <attente> seb128: sure
[15:33] <seb128> sorry for not noticing that before, seems like u-c-c mps don't always reach me or Laney
[15:33] <seb128> don't hesitate IRC pinging for those :-)
[15:33] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:33] <attente> seb128: sorry, i should ping it next time
[15:33] <seb128> no worry, it's not that long either :-)
[15:34] <seb128> ups, forgot something
[15:34] <seb128> #startmeeting
[15:34] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 15:34:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:34] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:34] <seb128> bah, forgot we had new techs nowadays :p
[15:34] <seb128> #topic attente
[15:34] <attente> lol
[15:34] <seb128> see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/31/%23ubuntu-desktop.html log for those reading minutes ;-)
[15:34] <seb128> #topic desrt
[15:34] <seb128> desrt, hey
[15:34] <desrt> hey.  what's up?
[15:35] <desrt> not a lot to report this week in terms of bullet points, but i've been working on a big one:
[15:35] <desrt> while i have the file monitor code fresh in my brain, i'm trying to slay the "periodic polling on missing files" thing
[15:35] <desrt> i made some pretty good progress on that over the weekend but it's still going to be a substantial slog
[15:35] <desrt> not much else to report
[15:36] <seb128> desrt, did any of the backtrace/e.u.c reports I pinged you about looked concerning or as potential glib issues to you?
[15:37] <seb128> desrt, I'm asking because several of those component didn't change since previous cycle and the reports started this cycle and are in glib code
[15:37] <desrt> i took some time looking at those.  one of them seemed semi-legitimate and i made a patch to downgrade the assert to a warning (which i forgot to commit until just now, thanks for the reminder)
[15:37] <desrt> the other two just looked like gvariant refcounting issues
[15:37] <seb128> thanks
[15:37] <desrt> if you can get me more information about those (cores, etc) i'd be happy to look
[15:37] <desrt> but otherwise it's pretty impossible :/
[15:38] <seb128> k, fair enough
[15:38] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[15:38] <seb128> #topic didrocks
[15:38] <seb128> didrocks, hey
[15:38] <didrocks> hey!
[15:38] <didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
[15:38] <didrocks> - spent some time triaging bug reports and testing various user's cases.
[15:38] <didrocks> Systemd:
[15:38] <didrocks> - did some bug triaging/investigation until Martin was back
[15:38] <didrocks> - backported some upstream systemd patches for beta
[15:38] <didrocks> - fixed the tmp.mount erratic behavior
[15:38] <didrocks> - fix an hanging issue due to the newest way of detecting mount point for machine-commit-id and sysfs
[15:38] <didrocks> - handling some feedbacks/emails/bug reports due to upstart-sysv change (third parties building images without using ubuntu-minimal, listing packages manually with *aptitude*)…
[15:38] <didrocks> Misc:
[15:38] <didrocks> - gave a talk at jdll during the week-end, performed there multiple installatiosn
[15:38] <didrocks> - check Laney's gnome-terminal wrapper (but seems some more work is needed for full backward compatbility, even if it's already a great enhancement!)
[15:38] <didrocks> - snappy doc reading + experimentations
[15:38] <didrocks> .
[15:39] <seb128> no nice utf8 char this week? ;-)
[15:39] <larsu> ·
[15:39] <didrocks> seb128: I hope Laney sent you one this time :)
[15:39] <Sweet5hark1> didrocks: oh, playing with snappy too?
[15:40] <larsu> seb128: '.' is utf8, too
[15:40] <didrocks> Sweet5hark1: yeah (see last week report, also proposed some patches already ;))
[15:40] <seb128> larsu, lol, good point ;-)
[15:41] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[15:41] <Sweet5hark1> larsu: utf-8 even has multiple different . all looking alike being utf-8
[15:41] <didrocks> yw!
[15:41] <seb128> Laney seems not back yet, so let's move him to the end and see if he joins us, I've his summary otherwise
[15:41] <seb128> #topic larsu
[15:41] <seb128> larsu, hey
[15:41] <larsu> hi!
[15:41] <larsu> not been very productive this last week (not feeling to well)
[15:42] <larsu> finished up the thin progress bar thing
[15:42] <larsu> thanks Laney for backporting the patch
[15:42] <larsu> mucked around with a couple of icon problems (zooming in nautilus, alt-tab and launcher in unity)
[15:42] <larsu> in short: humanity is doing it wrong
[15:43] <larsu> I started fixing that, but postponed to next cycle because it turned out to be a huge diff
[15:43] <larsu> and just hacked it a bit by setting MaxSize on most scalable folders
[15:43] <larsu> which is working nicely
[15:43] <larsu> I also investigated what chpe is doing to my terminal patches
[15:44] <larsu> because he's not communicating, just applying patches randomly and not marking them as committed
[15:44] <larsu> and putting blocker and depends bugs up
[15:44] <larsu> frustrating...
[15:44] <larsu> also the usual MR and bug stuff
[15:44] <seb128> :-/
[15:44] <larsu> ×
[15:45] <seb128> larsu, danke
[15:45] <Laney> didrocks: separate issue, larsu was working on that stuff
[15:45] <Laney> HI!
[15:45] <seb128> hey Laney
[15:45] <seb128> Laney, ready if it's your turn?
[15:45] <Laney> one second
[15:46] <larsu> over
[15:46] <attente> terminator for default...
[15:46] <Laney> <<< EOF
[15:46] <Laney> my laptop failed to resume (systemd ...) so I have to get re-stated
[15:46] <didrocks> attente: don't even try :p
[15:46] <seb128> Laney, k, let's do qengho first then
[15:47] <attente> :P
[15:47] <seb128> #topic qengho
[15:47] <seb128> qengho, hey
[15:47] <qengho> - Done: Packaged Chromium as Snap. Verdict: Won't work for now. Needs setuid support.
[15:47] <qengho> - In-progress: Getting Chromium updated in precise again.
[15:47] <qengho> EOF
[15:47] <Laney> ok!
[15:48] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:49] <seb128> qengho, did you give some feedback back to the snap team about chromium as snap?
[15:49] <qengho> I ran it thorough jdstrand to consider implications first.
[15:50] <seb128> k
[15:50] <seb128> would be nice to have that feedback on some mailing list maybe
[15:51] <seb128> -devel?
[15:51] <qengho> Will do.
[15:51] <seb128> could be useful to others
[15:51] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:51] <seb128> #topic Laney
[15:51] <seb128> Laney, hey
[15:51] <Laney> hi thar
[15:51] <Laney> • Short week, on holidays until Friday
[15:51] <Laney> • Updates: gtk glib glib-networking librsvg
[15:51] <Laney> • Fix gnome-terminal wrapper to cope with non existing profiles, fwd upstream
[15:51] <Laney> • Discussions about upload rights to CI train PPAs
[15:51] <Laney> • Some queue reviews since we're now in freeze
[15:51] <Laney> ❣
[15:52] <larsu> ♥
[15:52] <larsu> of course compose sequence for a heart is <3
[15:52] <seb128> thanks Laney
[15:53] <seb128> #topic Sweet5hark1
[15:53] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, hey
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + libreoffice_4.4.1-0ubuntu2 for vivid-proposed: FFe for breeze icons
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + merged Steves l10n fix, added README about generated ./debian
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + updated PPA to libreoffice_4.4.2_rc2-1 with new upstream rc
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + got myself a booting snappy VM and looked around a bit for porting LibreOffice (aka build-dep list walking)
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + started some GSOC student application review
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + continued refactoring work upstream
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> EOF
[15:54] <Sweet5hark1> proudly plain ASCII only today!
[15:54] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, same for you, snappy feedback shared would be nice I guess
[15:55] <seb128> didrocks, ^ that applies to you as well
[15:55] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: sure, sure. still collecting a list of gos and no-gos.
[15:56] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, thanks
[15:56] <didrocks> seb128: well, I'm sending my feedback as upstream patches for now
[15:56] <seb128> #topic tkamppeter
[15:56] <didrocks> (which got merged)
[15:57] <seb128> didrocks, k, I was speaking more about faq or useful tips, dunno if we have a wiki or something, so everybody doesn't hit the same issue when looking at their first package
[15:57] <seb128> tkamppeter, there?
[15:58] <seb128> seems not
[15:58] <seb128> he sent me an email after the start of the meeting though, weird
[15:58] <seb128> anyway, his summary
[15:58] <seb128> - cups-filters: Investigations on cups-browsed crash
[15:58] <seb128> - Organizational stuff for OpenPrinting Summit and Desktop Sprint
[15:58] <seb128> - Bugs.
[15:58] <Laney> haha
[15:58] <seb128> thanks tkamppeter ;-)
[15:59] <seb128> #topic seb128
[15:59] <seb128> • unity-settings-daemon, wrap labels from the mount helper dialog
[15:59] <seb128> • looked a bit at getting gtk2/3 out of the phone image
[15:59] <seb128> • looked at whoopsie configuration not working correctly on touch
[15:59] <seb128> • lot of bugs reviews (launchpad, e.u.c) before vivid
[15:59] <seb128> • backported some gedit bugfixes to vivid
[15:59] <seb128> • ubuntu-themes landing for Laney&larsu
[15:59] <seb128> • changes to unity&nautilus for nautilus .desktop rename
[15:59] <seb128> • tested/sponsored humanity-icon-theme fix from Lars for pixelized icons in unity switchter
[15:59] <seb128> • tested vivid beta iso of desktop and desktop-next
[15:59] <seb128> • backported qt5 fix for incorrectly themed cursor
[15:59] <seb128> • u-s-s
[15:59] <seb128> ∘ cleaned up the merges list
[15:59] <seb128> ∘ reviewed change to make disk computation correct on arale
[15:59] <seb128> ...
[15:59] <seb128> #topic other topics?
[16:00] <seb128> did I forget anyone? any other topic?
[16:00] <didrocks> seb128: did you send the MP for the whoopsie configuration after our discussion? I didn't see the MP?
[16:00] <Laney> sooooooooo do we have an xorg person atm? :)
[16:00] <seb128> Laney, you?
[16:00] <FJKong> hey seb128
[16:00]  * Laney appears to have no two finger scrolling
[16:00] <seb128> oh, ups
[16:00] <Laney> debug it please seb128!
[16:00] <seb128> #topic FJKong
[16:00] <Laney> ha
[16:00] <seb128> FJKong, sorry, forgot you and happyaron
[16:00] <seb128> your turn
[16:00] <FJKong> not much but mine is
[16:00] <FJKong> some topic on CCN meeting:
[16:00] <FJKong> some new feature for next release sogou IM, Wubi and shuangpin input engine.
[16:00] <FJKong> animation skin support.
[16:00] <FJKong> KV database test for pinyin converting.
[16:00] <FJKong> sponsor for localization with aron.
[16:00] <FJKong> attend ubuntu scope training for University at Changsha.
[16:01] <FJKong> EOF<
[16:01] <happyaron> I'm here
[16:01] <FJKong> ha
[16:01] <seb128> FJKong, thanks
[16:01] <seb128> #topic happyaron
[16:01] <seb128> happyaron, hey
[16:02] <happyaron> atteded CCN meeting with FJKong
[16:02] <happyaron> bug/task updates for Ubuntu Kylin beta2
[16:03] <happyaron> Sogou meetings for phone
[16:03] <happyaron> fcitx default (zh_*) for Kubuntu and other flavors
[16:04] <happyaron> over
[16:04] <didrocks> happyaron: did you see my ping yesterday about the cangjie ibus module maintainer happy to give a hand if needed to get his lib shared with fcitx (better HK support, more up to date data apparently)?
[16:04] <attente> happyaron: hey, are you going to do a new release of fcitx-qimpanel?
[16:05] <happyaron> didrocks: yes, and ypwong (a16g) is maintaining libcangjie for Debian/Ubuntu, I want to talk to him to follow up with upstream together, but he's on leave today
[16:05] <happyaron> attente: yes
[16:05] <didrocks> happyaron: good! upstream lives 10 minutes from me, so if you need anything… ;)
[16:06] <seb128> happyaron, did you hear about any work to make sogou work out of the box?
[16:06] <happyaron> I just started to handle more parts in the cooperation with NUDT, so I spent some time on doing glue communications
[16:06] <seb128> happyaron, I've been asked about that, which is new to me if true :-)
[16:07] <happyaron> seb128: yes, and I'll write email about the result from CCN meeting
[16:07] <seb128> happyaron, is that targetted for vivid?!
[16:07] <happyaron> nope
[16:07] <seb128> k, good
[16:07] <seb128> thanks
[16:07] <seb128> happyaron, can give me the zest of what is wanted?
[16:08] <seb128> would that be in ubiquity like for codecs?
[16:08] <happyaron> briefly, 1) inclusion in archive (restricted or partner, depends) 2) suggestion on ubiquity, like the mp3 stuff 3) possibly do some locale/timesome-specific notifications/suggestions, that recommend the user to install it when restricted/partner is enabled.
[16:10] <seb128> happyaron, thanks
[16:10] <seb128> #topic other topics?
[16:10] <seb128> k, I don't have the summary from robert_ancell or TheMuso
[16:10] <happyaron> and for more, there are some thing about pingbacks or popcon-like stuff, giving a checkbox at installation time and in privacy settings, and possibly have the checkbox checked when certain requirements is satisfied
[16:11] <didrocks> seb128: I guess you missed my question for you on whoopsie/touch MP
[16:11] <happyaron> (i.e. the preset settings, and users are able to opt-out/in at any time)
[16:11] <seb128> didrocks, I added https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201618635/lac.debdiff to bug #1437633 and Laney suggested a rtm version on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201678101/lxc-android-config_0.208rtm10.debdiff
[16:11] <seb128> didrocks, no, didn't :-)
[16:12] <didrocks> seb128: hum, empty .override?
[16:12] <didrocks> seb128: so, it's disabled by default?
[16:12] <Laney> no
[16:12] <Laney> empty override means no override
[16:12] <seb128> didrocks, no, the override is doing nothing
[16:12] <didrocks> it is if you ship an empty .override file
[16:12] <Laney> no
[16:12] <didrocks> Laney: no
[16:12] <Laney> NO!
[16:12] <didrocks> still no :p
[16:13] <Laney> the maintainer said so yesterday
[16:13] <didrocks> hum
[16:13] <seb128> didrocks, we discussed it yesterday, jodh confirmed it does nothing
[16:13] <seb128> on this channel
[16:13] <didrocks> interesting, that either changed or all the tests that we did until a couple of months were wrong
[16:13] <seb128> but I didn't test to be honest
[16:13] <didrocks> that's basically how we disable upstart jobs
[16:13] <didrocks> ship an empty .override
[16:13] <Laney> you probably put "manual" in an override file
[16:13] <seb128> are you sure you didn't have a "manual" line in those?
[16:13] <didrocks> Laney: no, completely empty in the tests
[16:13] <seb128> hum :-/
[16:14] <seb128> k, need testing then
[16:14] <didrocks> yeah
[16:14] <didrocks> and in that case, we would have some stuff to patch either way
[16:14] <didrocks> (in some postinst script)
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, thanks for pointing it out
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, for the record, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/30/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t16:41
[16:14] <seb128> "jodh	seb128: ogra is right - the empty override would be parsed and found to contain no stanzas, so would be a NOP"
[16:15] <didrocks> seems the cookbook agrees with this
[16:15] <didrocks> I wonder why we did it all wrong in multiple places
[16:15] <seb128> :-/
[16:15] <didrocks> I guess I know what I need to do tomorrow then :p
[16:15] <seb128> maybe there is a bug in upstart
[16:15] <didrocks> yeah
[16:15] <seb128> and it's not acting as it should?
[16:15] <Laney> woah
[16:15] <didrocks> that or the tests were wrong
[16:15] <Laney> i just tested, it does indeed disable it
[16:15] <seb128> woah sounds like Laney tested and confirmed it's buggy :p
[16:15] <didrocks> Laney: ahah, see!
[16:15] <seb128> hehe
[16:15] <Laney> do this: touch ~/.config/upstart/unity7.conf
[16:15] <Laney> and restart session
[16:15] <seb128> ok, let's wrap the meeting and continue that discussion
[16:16] <didrocks> THIS MEANS: I can type and test \o/
[16:16] <didrocks> not that crazy
[16:16] <didrocks> yeah ;)
[16:16] <seb128> thanks everyone
[16:16] <didrocks> thanks
[16:16] <seb128> #endmeeting
[16:16] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 16:16:11 2015 UTC.
[16:16] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-03-31-15.34.moin.txt
[16:16] <Laney> so srsly though
[16:16] <Laney> tap to click is broken
[16:16] <Laney> who to tell :(
[16:16] <seb128> Laney, upstream? #ubuntu-x? email mlankhosrt? ;-)
[16:16] <Laney> should try an old kernel I guess
[16:16] <Laney> hrhr
[16:17] <seb128> Laney, joke aside we don't have anyone dedicated to xorg, robert_ancell is doing xmir and might know about things, but I doubt he knows much about input and synaptic
[16:17] <seb128> maybe tjaalton can help you?
[16:17] <seb128> but yeah, trying to downgrade kernel and drivers would be a first step I guess
[16:19] <didrocks> seb128: ok, you got the discussion after I left it seems
[16:19] <didrocks> seriously, we need to get the final word on this, I'll retest tomorrow
[16:19] <didrocks> as either way, there is some work involved
[16:19] <seb128> jodh, ^ what's going on there? empty override disable jobs it seems?
[16:19] <seb128> didrocks, right
[16:20] <didrocks> jodh: that was what we did in the upstart -> systemd transition, and I'm pretty sure the tests showed that (seems like Laney did a quick test and confirms)
[16:20] <didrocks> and we have multiple postinst doing this
[16:21] <popey> Anyone reported terrible network performance on vivid recently?
[16:21] <didrocks> popey: nothing remarkable at least here
[16:21] <popey> Today my laptop is all over the place, sometimes 5Mb/s, sometimes 100Mb/s
[16:21] <ogra_> didrocks, what Laney confirmed above is an empty new user job, not an override file
[16:21] <popey> it's fine between machines on my lan, but running speedtest I get wild results
[16:21] <Laney> ogra_: different filename?
[16:21] <popey> other machines on my network are fine, it's only my laptop
[16:22] <ogra_> Laney, right ... try with .override
[16:22] <Laney> ok, phew!
[16:22] <didrocks> ogra_: works the same way for upstart session?
[16:22] <ogra_> didrocks, no idea ...
[16:22] <Laney> oh yeah this is good now
[16:22] <Laney> allllllll good
[16:23] <ogra_> all i know is that you need the empty file if you want to make it writable :)
[16:23] <didrocks> good thing we still have an upstart boot option :)
[16:23] <ogra_> we cant bind mountnon existing files ;)
[16:23] <ogra_> (add appropriate spacing above)
[16:23] <didrocks> ogra_: which was why I was tracking that patch, based on my experience that empty .overrides did this
[16:24] <ogra_> afaik only if you add manual to the
[16:24] <ogra_> m
[16:24] <didrocks> let's confirm on upstart system, and then fix postinst
[16:24] <didrocks> ogra_: weird that we would have done that and tested happily a bunch of times for the transition
[16:24] <ogra_> well, i never validated what i think :)
[16:25] <ogra_> and i never had to ship an empty upstart file
[16:25] <didrocks> update-rc.d adds the "disable" content
[16:25] <didrocks> oh, I know why our .postinst can work…
[16:25] <ogra_> but that just a .override acts as no-op is something that keybuk already told me many years ago
[16:25] <didrocks> we ship the empty .override
[16:25] <didrocks> it indicates for us "disable"
[16:25] <didrocks> and then, the postinst recall update-rc.d disable…
[16:26] <ogra_> no, it indicates that it overrides something
[16:26] <didrocks> which would add "manual"
[16:26] <ogra_> you can just put a different "start on fo" in there
[16:26] <didrocks> ogra_: not in the systemd postinst logic
[16:26] <didrocks> ogra_: I'm talking about how we approached it :)
[16:26] <didrocks> but then, the second call to update-rc.d "fixed" it
[16:26] <didrocks> and that's how we maybe never saw our supposition was wrong
[16:26] <ogra_> ah
[16:27] <didrocks> ok, anyway, testing that first thing tomorrow, if so, then, going over our postinsts to fix it
[16:29] <jodh> didrocks: where are these empty .override files being created?
[16:29] <didrocks> jodh: preinst, postinst, ship by defaults in various packages
[16:29] <jodh> didrocks: what directory are they being created in
[16:29] <didrocks> jodh: /etc/init/
[16:31] <jodh> didrocks: I'll test locally but that should not disable the job. Try creating a ~/.config/upstart/foo.{conf,override} pair and seeing the behaviour.
[16:32] <didrocks> jodh: let me confirm tomorrow with rebooting with init as upstart. I've an idea why we didn't detect our supposition was wrong (as we rerun invoke-rc.d disable if we detected a .override file)
[16:32] <didrocks> so that call is marking "manual", and the job is really disable
[16:33] <didrocks> still not the right logic, so better to fix it
[16:34] <didrocks> jodh: will keep you posted if I notice anything anyway!
[16:34] <didrocks> see you tomorrow guys :)
[16:34] <Laney> bye!
[16:56] <Laney> bleh
[16:56] <Laney> now it works after restarting
[16:57] <seb128> ?
[16:58] <Laney> trackpad
[17:21] <seb128> Trevinho, could you look at bug #1436297?
[17:21] <seb128> Laney, there is a bug that if you change the trackpad settings in g-c-c/u-c-c they seem to stop working until session restart
[17:22] <seb128> well at least willcooke had that in Brussels and something similar was going on on my laptop when I tried
[18:08] <Laney> ah maybe that
[18:35] <Laney> pitti: just got a proper shutdown, after manually installing that dbus
[18:35] <Laney> looks like the fix is good :-)
[18:35]  * Laney → pub quiz
[18:35] <Laney> ttyl!
[19:23] <mdeslaur> Trevinho: I've got a lock screen issue for you :)
[19:23] <mdeslaur> Trevinho: bug 1438870
[20:30] <rcarlos> hello
[20:40] <rcarlos> has anyone skipped tu
[20:45] <rcarlos> hello
[20:48] <rcarlos> has anyone skipped unity8 intro tutorial on desktop next ?