[00:32] <Elleo> keithzg: sure, will take a look in the morning :)
[00:32] <Elleo> keithzg: sorry, tab complete failure ;)
[00:32] <Elleo> kenvandine: sure, will take a look in the morning :)
[01:48] <keithzg> Elleo: heh, yeah I was like "huh, but I gave up my Nexus 4 to my flatmate when his phone got stolen, haven't been active in #ubuntu-touch since then, why is someone pinging me?"
[03:11] <tacoeater999> hello
[03:11] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: welcome
[03:11] <tacoeater999> does anyone know i fthe dual boot instruuctions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation work with the nexus 5?
[03:11] <tacoeater999> if the*
[03:12] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: many users installed touch on nexus5, so i presume dualboot will work too
[03:12] <tacoeater999> i just don't want to mess up my phone.
[03:12] <tacoeater999> has anyone here done it?
[03:12] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: there are tools to easy switch images, forgot its name
[03:14] <tacoeater999> im just worried.
[03:15] <tacoeater999> is ubuntu touch better than android?
[03:15] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: its safer and i think better
[03:16] <DonkeyHotei> dual boot on the nexus5 is achieved via an android app by Tassadar
[03:16] <tacoeater999> can you run regular ubuntu apps on it?
[03:16] <tacoeater999> like, gimp?
[03:16] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: but not all apps on android are supported on ubuntu touch, so its your decision
[03:16] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: no, you cant install terminal way unless you unlock dir and dont receive updates anymore
[03:17] <tacoeater999> thats dissapointing. it would be cool to use a keyboard/mouse and use professional programs on ubuntu
[03:18] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: that will surely come to the future
[03:18] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: there are youtubes already on tablets to do things like that
[03:18] <tacoeater999> also, can you get a different desktop enviroment? like gnome?
[03:18] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: no, touch is really built to be solid alone
[03:19] <tacoeater999> hmm... seems quite closed.
[03:19] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: try it yourself on your nexus5
[03:20] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: im a very happy nexus7 user here
[03:20] <tacoeater999> is there a way to just get plain ubuntu/other distros on the phone?
[03:20] <lotuspsychje> no
[03:20] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu touch is built for the devices
[03:21] <lotuspsychje> you cant just drag n drop ubuntu on it
[03:21] <tacoeater999> yeah i suppose
[03:21] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: there might be other phone distro's out there that might work also on n5
[03:22] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: but as for now, i think ubuntu touch is the nicest
[03:23] <tacoeater999> it certainly does look awesome
[03:23] <tacoeater999> but id really want to use gimp, blender, or libreoffice on it.
[03:23] <tacoeater999> when would that be coming, do you know?
[03:24] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: more apps will follow in the future for sure
[03:24] <tacoeater999> i mean the ability to install non touch apps.
[03:24] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: touch is built for security, to not break things installing with terminal right now
[03:25] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: its possible to unlock the dir as you wish, but then you wont receive updates
[03:25] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: you want blender use on a nexus5?
[03:26] <tacoeater999> i could plug it into an external monitor, or just use it with a mouse/keyboard.
[03:26] <tacoeater999> i probably wouldn't it was just an example.
[03:28] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: there are already video's out there with ubuntu touch running on tablets, with libreoffice and such
[03:29] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: youtube a bit :p
[03:29] <tacoeater999> but not reciving updates... why is that nessecary?
[03:30] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: for security reasons, you should receive updates
[03:31] <tacoeater999> i mean the fact that they get disabled
[03:31] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: updates get disabled, if the user unlocks the dir to install via terminal
[03:32] <tacoeater999> cant you get updates from the terminal?
[03:32] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: updates are officially GUI on ubuntu touch
[03:32] <tacoeater999> oh.
[03:32] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: you cant get updates on a package you downloaded yourself via terminal
[03:33] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: the philosophy is having all you need via click apps
[03:33] <tacoeater999> i suppose.
[03:33] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: its really built for security
[03:34] <lotuspsychje> i bought myself a nexus7 specially for ubuntu touch
[03:34] <lotuspsychje> i dont like android nightmare
[03:34] <tacoeater999> there are some good deal on craigslist
[03:34] <tacoeater999> deals*
[03:34] <lotuspsychje> what kind of deals
[03:35] <tacoeater999> nexus 7 for $150
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> it must be the 2013 wifi version
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> not the 2012 right, or it wont work
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> so doublecheck good :p
[03:35] <tacoeater999> i checked its the 2013
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> nice
[03:36] <lotuspsychje> i run touch flawless on nexus7 here, very happy
[03:36] <tacoeater999> neat
[03:36] <tacoeater999> so, how are the apps on ubuntu touch? are there a lot?
[03:37] <tacoeater999> actually, is there a webpage where I could take a look at them?
[03:37] <lotuspsychje> tacoeater999: over 1000 already i think
[03:37] <tacoeater999> wow
[03:38] <tacoeater999> is there a webpage where you can see them all?
[03:38] <lotuspsychje> https://appstore.bhdouglass.com/apps
[03:40] <tacoeater999> neat.
[05:33] <dholbach_> good morning
[06:38] <sturmflut-work> dholbach: Good morning
[06:38] <dholbach> hey sturmflut-work
[07:16] <studio_> good morning
[07:17] <studio_> is there a way to use v4l on the bq phone?
[08:14] <Se7> morning
[08:32] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Backup Day!  :-D
[08:32]  * mcphail goes off to do his yearly backup. Can't be too safe!
[08:37] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, o/ I think now settings page branch is ready :-)
[08:44] <AskUbuntu> Set DNS settings Ubuntu Touch | http://askubuntu.com/q/603465
[08:49] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, testing it now, thanks!
[08:51] <studio_> can it be, that v4l is missing in the kernel?
[08:52] <ogra_> could be that the shipped video codecs dont allow that, yeah
[08:52] <studio_> it is not enabled in the config
[09:10] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, added one comment, otherwise functionally it’s all good, I’ll do a code review now
[09:10] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, already addressed :-)
[09:11] <oSoMoN> man, you’re fast
[09:22]  * AlanBell wonders if 24 hours for an automated review is normal
[09:23] <popey> i see no apps waiting for review
[09:23] <popey> from you
[09:24] <AlanBell> popey: hmm, interesting
[09:24] <AlanBell> https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/2084/
[09:24] <popey> i cant see that
[09:24] <popey> whats the status?
[09:24] <AlanBell> the status is draft, but I submitted it for review, and I can't submit it again, because it is submitted for review
[09:24] <AlanBell> Automated review not yet completed.
[09:25] <popey> beuno: JamesTait ^
[09:25] <popey> sounds like a bug
[09:25] <AlanBell> oh, maybe I can submit it again
[09:25] <AlanBell> that made a difference
[09:25] <seb128> why did it go to manual review mode?
[09:26] <AlanBell> no clue
[09:26] <AlanBell> gosh
[09:26] <AlanBell> that was quick
[09:26] <JamesTait> I think it's the Neil Fox filter kicking in. ;)
[09:26] <popey> it only went to review 0 minutes ago
[09:27] <AlanBell> not quite sure what I did wrong before
[09:28] <popey> sometimes if you time it badly there can be a server deployment going on and you get into an odd state
[09:36] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, more comments
[09:37] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, ty
[09:44]  * Se7 just notice that you can use the bq phone in horizontal only with apps 
[09:46] <rbasak> Scopes don't go upside-down either, which is a bit annoying if the phone is upside down due to charging cable orientation
[09:46] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, I want to talk with you about: 'Does the actual header really need to be a ListItem.Empty ?'. Advantages we have using listItem.empty it's I don't have to manual set height, so I'm sure it's the same of normal header, nor width. Also, we already import the listitem component to use the divider. What's the advantage to use a rectangle?
[09:46] <rbasak> Though I understand that would confuse the edge gestures a bit, but that applies to upside down apps too, which do work.
[09:47] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, are we actually sure that the height of the header is the same height as that of a ListItem.Empty?
[09:48] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, afaik the AppHeader in the UITK is not implemented as a ListItem, so it might just be coincidence
[09:49] <Se7> i agree with your first sentences rbasak :)
[09:50] <ogra_> rbasak, Se7, once the shell rotation support lands, the whole screen will rotate ... the code simply didnt make it in yet
[09:50] <ogra_> (it exists in some PPA )
[09:51] <Se7> right tnx ogra_
[09:51] <rbasak> Nice - thanks ogra_
[09:51] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, mhh, you're right, the height is set to units.gu(7) + the divider,
[09:51] <rpadovani> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/trunk/view/head:/modules/Ubuntu/Components/Themes/Ambiance/PageHeadStyle.qml
[09:51] <rpadovani> ok, I change to rectangle
[09:52] <Se7> and yesterday i was thinking that would be nice if you can answer a call from the circle due the the case got the hole so you don t have to open the case :)
[09:52]  * Se7 just a thought
[09:57] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, fixed, now lunch time, see you in a couple of hours
[09:57] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, cheers, enjoy lunch!
[10:00] <studio_> is the front cam from the bq a OV5648? if yes, what is the other?
[10:01] <mcphail> I'd like to see a "Now playing" message in the lockscreen circle, with an option to pause
[10:02] <ogra_> mcphail, +1
[10:02] <ogra_> i think such stuff requires the re-worked greeter (which we will need for multiuser support) though ...
[10:05] <mcphail> Aah - multiuser support. I forget this OS is not just targeting phones
[10:10] <AskUbuntu> bq Aquaris E4.5 mobile internet problem | http://askubuntu.com/q/603502
[10:13] <jgdx> mpt, hi, could you add a comment to the change in bug 1438323 ?
[10:16] <Laney> are there daily RTM builds or is ubuntu-touch/stable the channel to use?
[10:18] <mcphail> To get remote debugging working, I have had to add gdbserver to /usr/local/bin on my bq phone. Is this going to cause problems with updates?
[10:18] <mcphail> can we mess with /usr/local freely?
[10:23] <jgdx> mcphail, "You can switch to read-write mode, although this disables Ubuntu system upgrades"
[10:23] <mcphail> jgdx: yes - just wondering how permanent the disabling actually is :)
[10:24] <jgdx> mcphail, "Recovering from read-write mode is possible but requires reinstalling the system from scratch"
[10:24] <jgdx> there's more here https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
[10:24] <AskUbuntu> How to access SD-card within Aquaris E4.5 (Ubuntu edition)? | http://askubuntu.com/q/603508
[10:25] <jgdx> mcphail, I use udf without data loss all the time.
[10:29] <mcphail> If updates break because of changes to /usr/local, that is probably a bug.
[10:30]  * mcphail notes he remounted read/write without using the "official" method on that page and /userdata/.writable_image hasn't been created
[10:31] <jgdx> mcphail, my guess is that you can do whatever you want, the device is yours. But there's no guarantee anymore that things will work as intended.
[10:34] <popey> mcphail: not really. if you switch to RW mode then you get to keep the broken parts when it breaks
[10:34] <popey> bugs filed as a result of going RW then fiddling will likely be ignored
[10:46] <mpt> jgdx, what change is that?
[10:47] <jgdx> mpt, does not affect ux
[10:47] <speck84> Hy all
[10:47] <mpt> jgdx, oh, I thought you meant you’d made a change :-)
[10:47] <speck84> Guys I have a problem with the Monodeveloper
[10:48] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, I fixed all, but visiblity of settingsPage itself, because setting visible: !subpageContainer.visible causes Binding loop detected for property "visible"
[10:48] <speck84> I'm a student I have to write console app in C#
[10:48] <rpadovani> I'll investigate more after launch
[10:48] <rpadovani> *lunch
[10:48] <speck84> Everiting workd fin until I want it to see the result in the terminal
[10:48] <speck84> I researchede so many places but still I didnt fin the solution
[10:49] <jgdx> mpt, no, sorry. It's just that without ux, we're not quite sure how to proceed.
[10:49] <speck84> I using Monodeveloper 5.5
[10:49] <speck84> Is there anyon can help me pls.
[10:49] <jgdx> speck84, this is an ubuntu touch channel.
[10:49] <speck84> I know and I have a project for this as well
[10:50] <speck84> I have ubuntu phone
[10:51] <jgdx> speck84, I don't think that approach is supported.
[10:51] <speck84> ok
[10:51] <speck84> I try on apropriet channel
[10:52] <davmor2> speck84: might be better to ask on askubuntu.com it will hit a wider audience
[10:52] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Where would I post bugs/features for things such as skiping music on screen lock and having music/audio display in the sound indicator?
[10:55] <speck84> Thx guys
[10:55] <mpt> ChloeWolfieGirl, <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers> is a guide to where to report bugs on particular components
[10:56] <mpt> ChloeWolfieGirl, but it doesn’t mention the lock screen. That is part of unity8. <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+filebug?no_redirect>
[10:56] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Mpt thank you :D
[10:56] <jgdx> ChloeWolfieGirl, might want to look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1378048
[10:57] <jgdx> The controls are there, but hidden
[11:00] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mpt Wouldn't skipping media on lockscreen be more of a media-hub thing?
[11:00] <davmor2> jgdx, ChloeWolfieGirl: yeah they are hidden because half of them didn't function, this should improve over time and be re-implemented though
[11:02] <mpt> ChloeWolfieGirl, by “skipping music on screen lock” do you mean having music controls on the lock screen itself? Or something else?
[11:02] <EdwardMorbius> will 24 h clock be implemented in the future? currently its only AM/PM
[11:02] <ahayzen> music on the lock screen \o/
[11:03] <ogra_> mpt, i think inside the usermetrics circle is what she wants
[11:03] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: the 24 hour clock is there already, but it might be locale dependent
[11:03] <ChloeWolfieGirl> davmor2 I hope they bring it back sometime, its so much quicker to pause, skip and go back on songs then having to unlock the phone or having to switch back to the app just to pause something...
[11:03] <ogra_> as i said a few lines above, that will require a new greeter first
[11:04] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail by locale you mean timezone or system language?
[11:04] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, i've discussed this with the designers before ... but firstly we are working towards adding controls into the sound-indicator (like unity7)
[11:04] <davmor2> ahayzen: do you have music as a highlight or something?
[11:04] <ahayzen> davmor2, yup, i hear all your music discussions on -uk as well ;) lol
[11:05] <mpt> oh joy, this again
[11:05] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: I think the locale is set with the system language
[11:05] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mpt With cyanogen when you have the phone in standby, playing music but with the screen off, if you hold volume up, the song skips, hold volume down the song does to the previous one!  I'd like to see music on the lock screen and I'd like to see that convinient feature of holding a volume key to switch songs.
[11:06] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail then it wont work for me, I use english as my locale is not translated yet, which means no 24 h clock for me atm.
[11:06] <nik90> EdwardMorbius: At the moment, the system languages defines the locale and with it stuff like temperature units, AM/PM etc..but there is a bug reported by mpt requesting for this to be separated
[11:06] <AlanBell> would it not be convenient to um, change the volume with the volume key?
[11:06] <EdwardMorbius> nik90 getting that separate would definitely be useful
[11:06] <nik90> AlanBell: erm you can already do that
[11:06] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: you can use UK english which will give you 24h clock
[11:06] <nik90> EdwardMorbius: I agree..there are lot of people requesting that.
[11:07] <AlanBell> nik90: yeah, I am just curious about ChloeWolfieGirl's suggestion
[11:07] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail ok I will try switching to uk english
[11:07] <nik90> AlanBell: oh, I read your sentence as an isolated request :)
[11:07] <ChloeWolfieGirl> AlanBell with cyanogen if you tab volume up, the volume goes up, but if you hold volume up the song skips, it took a bit to get used to but its so convinent
[11:07] <AlanBell> ah, I see :) kind of makes sense now
[11:07] <EdwardMorbius> changed and restaring
[11:07] <EdwardMorbius> restarting*
[11:07] <mpt> ChloeWolfieGirl, huh, doesn’t that cause you to skip sometimes when you’re just trying to change the volume? :-)
[11:08] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, IIRC one of my Sony's did that and it was a really useful feature :)
[11:08] <mpt> Or conversely, to make the volume REALLY loud when your phone is in your pocket and you haven’t realized that it hasn’t locked yet
[11:09] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mpt it did when I was first getting used to it, what happened more though was, I had the phone out of lock, held volume up, and the volume went really loud, and I was like, No I ment to skip the song xD
[11:09] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail It worked now I have 24 h clock thanks
[11:09] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: np
[11:10] <ChloeWolfieGirl> mpt I wouldn't say it was a feature that I grasped 100% at the start, but after a week or so of using it, I loved the feature's convenience.
[11:11] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen, Haha yeah, don't want the current song, hold volume up, next song comes on, SOOOO useful, at least for me
[11:11] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: have you considered becoming a translator for your language? It would help Ubuntu to be supported for you locale sooner
[11:11] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, yeah same don't even need to take your phone out of your pocket as you can feel where the buttons are :)
[11:11] <mpt> EdwardMorbius, bug 1388931 has discussion about whether Clock app should have its own 12-/24-hour setting.
[11:12] <jgdx> mpt, volume buttons should always be volume buttons, is what I prefer. Not sure about you guys :P
[11:12] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail I did some translations in the launchpad, but had some trouble finding all what needs to be translated for UT, is there any link where one can see all required translations?
[11:12] <mpt> ubot5, you’re drunk
[11:13] <mpt> ubot5, and you have an escaping bug too. “Sorry, I don't know anything about 'you\xe2\x80\x99re drunk'”? What is that gibberish
[11:13] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen, Yeah so many times I would have had to take my phone out of my pocket, press the power button, then tab skip, so much more time and effort then holding a volume button
[11:14] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: I'm just finding my way with this myself. I think there is an email trigger when translations are needed (such as on a package update). I'm trying to find out more about it.
[11:14] <mpt> ChloeWolfieGirl, anyway, yes, that’s probably more likely to be media-hub (or possibly indicator-sound)
[11:14] <jgdx> ChloeWolfieGirl, isn't that what headset with controls were made for?
[11:15] <Se7> ChloeWolfieGirl, i said the same for answer a call..nice to do that from the circle :)
[11:15] <mpt> Maybe you have cheap earbuds without controls
[11:15] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail yeah the translations part is a bit messy, difficult to find everything that needs to be translated.
[11:16] <jgdx> mpt, then buy new ones
[11:16] <ChloeWolfieGirl> jgdx, alot of headsets don't have them controls, expectially headphones, some do but in my experiance most dont
[11:16] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, mpt, there is work going on in media-hub to allow us to do this at the moment, then its up to design/unity guys where the controls are shown
[11:16] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: I had been looking as I was adding gettext support to a (non-Ubuntu) package. I think a lot is built into hooks from the repositories sending emails to translation teams. I suspect joining a translation team might be the best way in
[11:17] <ChloeWolfieGirl> se7 I'd love to see the person who's calling face in the circle, IDK about how you'd answer but I think that would be pretty sweet!
[11:17] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail I will try but team responsible for my language seems a little "dead" when it comes to activity but I will try anyway
[11:18] <Se7> ;)
[11:18] <mcphail> EdwardMorbius: out of interest, what is your language? Your English is excellent.
[11:19] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail Croatian
[11:19] <mpt> Let’s just shrink down the whole display to fit in a circle
[11:20] <mcphail> I'm surprised that translation team is quiet.
[11:22] <ChloeWolfieGirl> jgdx also my headphones cost a good amount and where discounted, its not just cheap ones that dont have media controls on board
[11:23] <EdwardMorbius> mcphail I am checking the dates on some of the translation and some are not much up to date, I will try completing the missing translations.
[11:25] <jgdx> ChloeWolfieGirl, :p I'm being stupid. There's a usecase I know.
[11:26] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntuphone Aquaris E 4.5 How to prevent webapps from stopping when losing focus? | http://askubuntu.com/q/603530
[11:27] <sergiusens> /win 21
[11:27] <ChloeWolfieGirl> jgdx, Oh you, you young whipper snapper, xD
[11:29] <jgdx> ChloeWolfieGirl, but I strongly oppose, for what it's worth, that the volume buttons change behaviour (except for camera operations).
[11:30] <jgdx> sergiusens, not Esc o, ctrl n ctrl n ? :p
[11:33] <ChloeWolfieGirl> jgdx perhaps you could change it in system settings, I mean IDK but I like the feature and its a big convenience, but if you don't like it, I think you should be able to change it
[11:36] <jgdx> ChloeWolfieGirl, I would love to see, in system settings, a kind of hard button action editor. Long press on power spawns voice recognition, or something else.
[11:37] <jgdx> I do believe those things are set in stone on e.g. iOS. And that bothered me.
[11:45] <ChloeWolfieGirl> jgdx, I know in cyanogen you can change quite alot, and that holding volume to change the song is an option in cyanogen, you can just untick it if you dont want it, but iOS is just a locked cage.. Ubuntu doesn't have many buttons, without a home button or other buttons like android there isn't as much to customise
[11:48] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I made a bug for the sound skipping via holding the volume button when the screen is off, if anyone misses/wants this feature!    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/media-hub/+bug/1438655
[11:49] <davmor2> ChloeWolfieGirl: the other option is don't have music on your phone that you feel you need to skip, it saves room for the stuff you like ;)
[11:50] <ChloeWolfieGirl> davmor2, I listen to so much music on my phone, and music xD
[11:50] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I meant and podcasts
[11:55] <stangeland> anybody have experience with the ubuntu phone? http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/devices
[11:55] <popey> :) yes.
[11:55] <rbasak> How do the Twitter notifications work with respect to the notification API?
[11:55] <stangeland> any take on the hardware?
[11:55] <rbasak> That is - what is the mechanism being used to poll?
[11:55] <stangeland> batteri time?
[11:56] <stangeland> mic quality?
[11:56] <stangeland> responsiveness
[11:56] <kalikiana> dandrader: did you run the ap tests at all? the text tests don't rotate and the popover test actually fails
[11:56] <rbasak> I'm wondering how to write an app or scope that can poll an RSS feed and notify when an article is available.
[11:56] <rbasak> Would this require a notification server to poll by proxy? Or can it be done some other way?
[11:56] <rbasak> Since Twitter seems to manage?
[11:57] <rbasak> I only need a 60 minute poll interval and even slower might be acceptable.
[11:57] <dandrader> kalikiana, only before I made the fix. once I found out that I could reproduce the issue manually with qmlscene (added some buttons to change the orientation) I just kept using the manual way
[11:58] <kalikiana> dandrader: I saw the buttons. unfortunately lack of tests is the root cause of not having caught these bugs right away :-(
[11:58] <kalikiana> so we really need these to pass and reproduce
[11:59] <kalikiana> dandrader: the popover tests passes partly but one of them closes instantly
[11:59] <ChloeWolfieGirl> I think it'd be kinda cool to get a notification for when a song changes so you know what the song is before it starts and can skip from the notification bubble, but then I imagine it could get pretty annoying
[12:02] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, like the notify-osd rhythmbox uses in unity7? i'd like that as well...but it could be annoying if it gets in the way on the phone :/
[12:02] <sergiusens> jdstrand: I don't even know why I pressed ctrl+R, alt+tab with two monitors is sometime unpredictable :-P
[12:02] <sergiusens> sometimes*
[12:03] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen, in the latest version of ubuntu you can swipe away notifications so it won't be to bad, just if you do it all the time, but then you could turn it off if you wanted in the notification settings in system settings
[12:04] <ahayzen> ChloeWolfieGirl, yeah i guess, my Xperia used to do it in the actual notification bar rather than a bubble which could be a bit neater but doesn't match our design patterns
[12:04] <ahayzen> and if it was configurable in sys settings/music that'd probably be ok
[12:05] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ahayzen, yeah same in cyanogen, it'd show the name of the song in a glans up
[12:06] <ChloeWolfieGirl> whats ofono?
[12:09] <jgdx> the telephony system
[12:09] <jgdx> calls, sms, cellular data, etc
[12:11] <jgdx> sergiusens, you mean jgdx right?
[12:12] <ChloeWolfieGirl> jgdx, fair enough, :P
[12:15] <sergiusens> jgdx: yes I do! Something is wrong with me today :-P
[12:16] <jgdx> sergiusens, no worries :p
[12:18] <pete-woods> pitti: https://github.com/martinpitt/python-dbusmock/pull/4 - sorry to nag again, but you deleted an important signal emission when squashing my messy commits together
[12:23] <mcphail> To sideload a package, do I simply do an "adb push"?
[12:28] <ChloeWolfieGirl> When you visit a website, sometimes it'll ask you if you want to download the app from the playstore, is that a fault of the browser or webpage?
[12:33] <jgdx> ChloeWolfieGirl, browser.
[12:33] <brunch875> Browser states it's android
[12:34] <brunch875> the reason is probably so you get the web version, which will display better
[12:34] <brunch875> the mobile*
[12:35] <ChloeWolfieGirl> brunch875, so it should show as Ubuntu-touch but due if they changed it, it'd show the desktop version?
[12:35] <Elleo> the browser doesn't actually state it is android, it says it's "like Android"
[12:35] <Elleo> so smart websites have the opportunity to see that's it's actually Ubuntu Touch
[12:35] <Elleo> but less smart ones can still fallback on whatever they serve to Android
[12:36] <brunch875> that's what I'm assuming, chloe
[12:36]  * ogra_ reboots sergiusens 
[12:36]  * brunch875 is off to eat with movie
[12:37] <pitti> pete-woods: ah, this looked redundant with the generic PropertiesChanged you added to mockobject.py?
[12:39] <jgdx> pitti, not always, both nm and e.g. the connection iface both emit that signal
[12:40] <pete-woods> pitti: no worries. nm just has its own property changed signals
[12:43] <fredo> I guess I need some advice: I just pulled my bq Ubuntu phone out of my pocket, and it is stuck in some "fastboot mode".
[12:43] <popey> hold down power and vol+
[12:43] <fredo> It doesn't respond to the power key, any idea how I can reboot it?
[12:44] <fredo> Great, thanks! ;)
[12:44] <john-mcaleely> (about 10 sec for the power+volup key)
[12:44] <fredo> Seems to be booting normally now.
[12:45] <robin-hero> hi
[12:45] <fredo> Yep, worked, thanks!
[12:45] <robin-hero> Can somebody help me?
[12:46] <robin-hero> Which application can open .html files on phone?
[12:47] <ogra_> rothe browser
[12:47] <ogra_> robin-hero, the browser
[12:48] <ogra_> oSoMoN, ^^^ or did we block the file:// protocol ?
[12:49] <sergiusens> ogra_: one of the systemd units took forever to unblock the boot!
[12:49] <ogra_> sergiusens, oh man ... you should really be ported back to upstart :)
[12:50] <pitti> pete-woods: merged, thanks!
[12:50] <robin-hero> ogra: but how?
[12:50] <robin-hero> It isn't listed in the selection menu
[12:50] <pete-woods> pitti: thanks!
[12:50] <robin-hero> content -hub
[12:50] <robin-hero> if i am right
[12:51] <ogra_> robin-hero, in the url bar in the browser: file:///home/phablet/
[12:51] <robin-hero> but I can't download
[12:51] <ogra_> (i *think* that is blocked in newer versions of the browser though ... for security reasons)
[12:52] <robin-hero> I clicked on it and the content-hub opened but only showed Dekko, Docviewer and an other ttottaly irrelevant app
[12:53] <ogra_> that rather sounds like it isnt a html file or like the webserver you try to open it on is broken
[12:53] <ogra_> how do you "click" on it ... i mean ... from which app
[12:53] <davmor2> or a html page that points to document
[12:53] <robin-hero> from the gmail webapp
[12:53] <robin-hero> it is an attachment
[12:54] <robin-hero> it is a log file in html file
[12:54] <ogra_> hmm, did you try docviewer ?
[12:54] <davmor2> robin-hero: then click on docviewer
[12:55] <robin-hero> davmor2: But docviewer only displays it in plain text
[12:55] <robin-hero> so it is unreadable
[12:55] <ogra_> well, then you need to write a "htmlviewer" app i fear
[12:56] <ogra_> or ask the docviewer dev to start supporting html
[12:57] <robin-hero> ogra_: I'm disappointed, but thanks for your help
[12:57] <ogra_> robin-hero, file a wishlist bu against docviewer, see what the dev answers
[12:58] <popey> sverzegnassi: is the dev - ask him directly :)
[12:59] <oSoMoN> ogra_, nope, we haven’t blocked it, so the browser can open local html files indeed
[12:59] <kalikiana> dandrader|afk: I addressed the test issues (you apparently removed the forced orientation on tests that did not opt-in) https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/orientationManual/+merge/254753 but I still get failures
[12:59] <kalikiana> I would appreciate if you could have another look
[13:00] <kalikiana> and please run the tests as well
[13:02] <pete-woods> pitti: FYI, this is making my indicator-network tests fail <begging for debian release and vivid sync again plz kthx/>
[13:02] <rvr> dpm: Do you know why Launchpad raises this error when translating a string with two arguments? "a format specification for argument 1 doesn't exist in 'msgstr[0]'"
[13:03] <dpm> rvr, I'd suspect something wrong in the .pot template. Can you point me to the exact string in Launchpad?
[13:03] <pitti> pete-woods: oh, were you blocking on this? you know you can always ship your own templates, or even modify existing templates at runtime :)
[13:03] <pitti> pete-woods: I'll do a vivid upload now
[13:03] <rvr> dpm: This contact is on Telegram // %1 out of %2 contacts are on Telegram.
[13:04] <pete-woods> pitti: not blocking on it. I've just disabled the tests for now, but it'd be really nice to have them enabled :)
[13:05] <dpm> rvr, ah, I already had a chat with karni about that string ^ - we should fix it, but we don't have a good solution for it, so I think we should reword it
[13:06] <dpm> plural forms seem to work well with only one argument
[13:06] <pitti> pete-woods: uploaded
[13:06]  * karni notes
[13:07] <pete-woods> pitti: awesomes!
[13:07] <rvr> dpm: Ok, so I'll leave it untranslated
[13:11] <sverzegnassi> robin-hero: o/ from my PoV, since an html file is recognised as text type, docviewer properly opens it as plain text. IMHO it's the webbrowser-app that should provide a htmlviewer, but i'm not sure
[13:11] <sverzegnassi> how this could fit with the whole platform.
[13:18] <freerage> Hello, I want to build a little script to import SMS messages from a csv file in Touch. But I couldn't find the methods or the structure of the DB. can someone help me with that ?
[13:19] <brendand> freerage - definitely don't try to write directly to the db
[13:19] <brendand> freerage, there is an api for contacts in Qt, but that obviously isn't as straightforward as you might have liked
[13:20] <freerage> brendand - Ok, but I tried to find it without success
[13:21] <dpm> freerage, perhaps bfiller can point you in the right direction regarding your SMS messages import script
[13:21] <ogra_> hat should go into the history service db ...
[13:21] <bfiller> freerage: salem_ might be able to point you in the right direction. We do have a history-service api that is not published but possibly could be used..
[13:23] <ogra_> in fact there is ./.local/share/history-service/history.sqlite ... pull it off the phone and tinker with it til you got it right ;)
[13:25] <freerage> Well I'm waiting for my phone, I was hoping to begin before...
[13:25] <ogra_> well, i wont send you my SMS history db :)
[13:26] <salem_> freerage, hi, the sms/voice history is stored in the database ogra_ pointed out, but there is a private c++ api that can be used (but also can be changed at any time) to populate that db. You can see this example on how to write events to the database using this api here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/history-service/trunk/view/head:/tools/maketextevents/main.cpp
[13:27] <rbasak> How do the Twitter notifications work with respect to the notification API?
[13:27] <rbasak> That is - what is the mechanism being used to poll?
[13:28] <rbasak> I'm wondering how to write an app or scope that can poll an RSS feed and notify when an article is available.
[13:28] <Elleo> kenvandine: tested and approved that MR, one of the comments might have a typo though
[13:28] <rbasak> Would this require a notification server to poll by proxy? Or can it be done some other way?
[13:28] <rbasak> That is - what is the mechanism being used to poll?
[13:28] <kenvandine> Elleo, thx!
[13:28] <ogra_> rbasak, i'd just grab the twiter app source code ;)
[13:28] <rbasak> Ah, poor history paste. Sorry.
[13:28] <kenvandine> not surprised about a typo :)
[13:28] <rbasak> ogra_: I tried, but it seems to be old.
[13:28] <Elleo> rbasak: as far as I'm aware there's a hack for twitter using polld
[13:28] <ogra_> well, to be honest, i wouldnt ... i would just tinker in /opt/com.ubuntu...
[13:29]  * ogra_ only polls the source for C++ apps
[13:29] <rbasak> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-twitter-app/trunk was where I looked
[13:29] <Elleo> rbasak: that isn't an option for general apps though
[13:29] <ogra_> tinkering directly in 7opt is so convenient ...
[13:29] <Elleo> rbasak: for anything else you'd need a server talking to the push service
[13:29] <rbasak> Elleo: OK, thanks. In that case, a further question about the push service. How should the server discover dead clients?
[13:30] <rbasak> Since the app can't send a keepalive.
[13:30] <ogra_> ther server only pushes, no ?
[13:30] <ogra_> it doesnt talk to clients beyond that
[13:30] <rbasak> Right, but the server needs to track all clients that want a push
[13:30] <Elleo> rbasak: what do you mean by dead clients? clients will receive the notification whenever they next come online
[13:31] <rbasak> So the client sends the server a token so it can push for that client, right?
[13:31] <ogra_> rbasak, i think its rather an opt-out broadcast
[13:31] <Elleo> rbasak: so you just send out your push and it gets picked up whenever possible
[13:31] <rbasak> What happens when I reflash my phone and my client never uses that token again?
[13:31] <rbasak> How do I clean up the stale tokens on the server?
[13:32] <Elleo> I don't think you can, but I'm not massively familiar with the push architecture
[13:33] <rbasak> So my server has to build up crud forever? That can't be right.
[13:33] <rbasak> ogra_: AIUI, it's unicast.
[13:33] <ogra_> oh
[13:34] <ogra_> does it have to be  ?
[13:34] <rbasak> I would like it to be broadcast, but all the documentation suggests to me otherwise.
[13:35] <rbasak> But in any case, unicast is still needed, for example for individual notifications (imagine a push-based native Twitter app)
[13:35] <ogra_> i.e. if i would use a 2breaking news" altert from a news webapp, i would prefer just a blind broadcast
[13:35] <Elleo> rbasak: well, I guess there's nothing stopping your app's notification handler from sending a message to your server saying it received a notification (and so allowing you to see when they last collected a message, and removing any that haven't collected messages in $x amount of time)
[13:35] <dobey> rbasak: if the token is expired, delete it
[13:35] <jgdx> rvr, for ofono restarts to work on krillin, you need to set some env variables. FYI :) I've updated the test plan.
[13:35] <rbasak> Elleo: but my client's app notification handler will never run if it has been reflashed.
[13:35] <rbasak> dobey: how do I detect an expired token?
[13:36] <Elleo> rbasak: yeah, that's the point; so it won't send a message saying its received a notification
[13:36] <Elleo> rbasak: so if you haven't received that message in say a year, you can remove that client
[13:36] <dobey> rbasak: i presume via some communication with the ubuntu push server
[13:36] <Elleo> it's not especially nice, just a vague implementation off the top of my head
[13:36] <dobey> rbasak: your server doesn't talk to the client devices, it talks to the push server, and the push server talks to the devices
[13:37] <rbasak> Elleo: I see what you're saying, but that doesn't work unless I send a notification that the user reads and reacts to, AFAICT. That may not happen for an app that only sends infrequent alerts.
[13:37] <dobey> i think
[13:37] <Elleo> rbasak: the handler gets run regardless of whether the user interacts with it
[13:37] <rbasak> Elleo: since the app's hook doesn't get called until the user interacts.
[13:37] <rbasak> Elleo: the helper does run AIUI, but presumably that's confined?
[13:37] <rbasak> Otherwise why have a helper at all?
[13:38] <rbasak> (the documentation doesn't say)
[13:38] <rvr> jgdx: Silo 28?
[13:38] <Elleo> rbasak: I would expect it to be under the same confinement as the rest of the package
[13:38] <Elleo> rbasak: I'm just guessing here though, I haven't done anything much with the push stuff myself, so I'm probably the wrong person to be suggesting stuff ;)
[13:38] <rbasak> dobey: I see nothing in the push server API that will help me determine the validity of a token.
[13:38] <rvr> jgdx: Or in general?
[13:39] <sturmflut-work> pete-woods: I filed a couple of bugs against the connectivity-api three months ago and noticed that there wasn't any development since last december. Any idea on a roadmap or something?
[13:40] <freerage> ogra_ about your SMS db, is there a public historic.file file somewhere ? Like in a demo website or anything like that ?
[13:40] <dobey> rbasak: you send a message and the server replies with an error of 401 or something like that?
[13:40] <rbasak> freerage: does http://paste.ubuntu.com/10712087/ help?
[13:41] <dobey> rbasak: anyway, ask ralsina and Chipaca about that i guess
[13:41] <Chipaca> rbasak: hello hello
[13:41] <Chipaca> what's dobey breaking now?
[13:41] <rbasak> dobey: seems non-optimal to have to wait to send a notification before I can clean up. Dead clients are likely to have none.
[13:42] <Chipaca> rbasak: sorry, without going through all the backlog, what's the question?
[13:42] <rbasak> Chipaca: my question is: how should my server that speaks to the push server REST endpoint clean up data relating to dead tokens?
[13:42] <freerage> rbasak: Yeah !
[13:42] <juzzlin_> Hi, is this a known issue (on Bq): it seems that mediascanner-se takes constantly a lot of CPU time
[13:42] <dobey> rbasak: well, you'd need to be smart and clean up your server yourself then. but you're going to need some sort of accounts system on your server and such, with oauth tokens, if you want to be able to use push notifications, anyway
[13:43] <rbasak> dobey: I want to publish public notifications to the phone. So no oauth needed.
[13:43] <Chipaca> rbasak: you'll get an error when trying to use a token
[13:43] <Chipaca> rbasak: what scenario are you trying to cover?
[13:43] <awe_> jibel, when you get a chance, could you please comment on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1410113
[13:43] <rbasak> Chipaca: my issue with that is that dead clients are unlikely to receive a notification so I will never clean up.
[13:43] <Chipaca> rbasak: how are they dead?
[13:44] <rbasak> Chipaca: say they dropped their phone in the toilet. Or reflashed. Surely these will build up over time?
[13:44] <Chipaca> rbasak: surely
[13:44] <dobey> rbasak: if you have a token, you'll send a notification
[13:44] <rbasak> dobey: only if I have the need to send a notification that associates with that token.
[13:44] <dobey> either deal with it, or don't
[13:44] <jgdx> rvr, rtm silo 1, and in general
[13:44] <Chipaca> augh
[13:45] <dobey> well if the rss updated, they will receive a notification
[13:45] <rbasak> Since I can't send a "silent" notification to the app, since all notifications require user interaction.
[13:45] <Chipaca> rbasak: dobey: i can't keep track of more conversations right now, sorry
[13:45] <Chipaca> i've got one (1) conversation thread for this, no more, or my brain will asplode
[13:45] <Chipaca> so i'm going to ingore what you're chatting between yourselves
[13:45] <Chipaca> and answer the question
[13:45] <Chipaca> and that's it :)
[13:45] <rbasak> Unless the helper can reply direct to my server, but I'm not sure that it can - how the helper is confined isn't documented.
[13:46] <Chipaca> rbasak: on your server, you have users, yes?
[13:46] <rbasak> Chipaca: no - because I want to relay public information, so no accounts needed.
[13:46] <Chipaca> rbasak: then where are you storing the tokens?
[13:46] <rbasak> I was just going to have the app request notifications, and supply notifications.
[13:46] <rbasak> In a DB, keyed by token.
[13:46] <Chipaca> rbasak: and you're sending notifications to all tokens?
[13:47] <Chipaca> doing like a multicast?
[13:47] <rbasak> Yes, but keyed by location.
[13:47] <rbasak> So there may well be dead locations for which dead tokens build up.
[13:47] <Chipaca> so, you have several options here
[13:47] <Chipaca> one is to have a policy for identifying dead locations and purging those
[13:48] <Chipaca> you'll want to have some kind of monitoring of that anyway
[13:48] <dobey> rbasak: why do you want to use notifications at all anyway?
[13:48] <rbasak> dobey: since I can't poll!
[13:48] <dobey> rbasak: why do you need to poll?
[13:48] <rbasak> I want to be able to alert users.
[13:48] <rbasak> When a notification arrives related to a location that the user is in.
[13:48] <Chipaca> rbasak: another is to periodically send "ping" notifications to anything that hasn't been notified in the past X
[13:48] <dobey> of what?
[13:48] <Chipaca> rbasak: or to all, i don't mind
[13:49] <Chipaca> rbasak: and have your helper filter those ping notifications out
[13:49] <Chipaca> rbasak: ok?
[13:49] <rbasak> Chipaca: so I can't really detect dead locations, since all locations are effectively active all the time, even if notification in particular locations may be infrequent.
[13:49] <Chipaca> rbasak: so locations will accumulate over time, even if they're dead, and you'll have the same problem with locations that you have with tokens but ok, not my problem :)
[13:50] <rbasak> Chipaca: for the ping notifications, I see that the app's notification helper would be able to see that, but anything further would require user interaction, which I don't want for a ping notification.
[13:50] <Chipaca> rbasak: what "further"?
[13:50] <rbasak> Chipaca: "further" as in the helper alerts the user, the user alerts the app, and the app can act. That's the flow, right?
[13:50] <dobey> rbasak: so if i use your app, and change locations, i'll get notified of something not relevant to my location?
[13:51] <Chipaca> rbasak: right, the helper would just ignore the pings
[13:51] <rbasak> Chipaca: can the helper speak to my server directly, or is it confined? I couldn't get an answer from the documentation.
[13:51] <rbasak> Chipaca: so how would the server get the "pong"?
[13:52] <Chipaca> rbasak: it's documented: the push helper can only have the push client policy, ie no networking no nothing
[13:52] <Chipaca> rbasak: what you mean, pong
[13:52] <Chipaca> rbasak: you're trying to detect dead clients
[13:52] <dandrader> kalikiana, got my hands full today. might take a look at it tomorrow
[13:52] <rbasak> dobey: no, because if you change locations I'd contact my server to turn off notifications for that location (and swap it for the new location). And I'd ignore any notifications for old locations in the helper.
[13:52] <Chipaca> rbasak: i mean: clients whose token is no longer valid
[13:52] <Chipaca> rbasak: so if you are able to send a notification, the token is valid
[13:53] <rbasak> Chipaca: does a dead client result in an eventual dead token?
[13:53] <Chipaca> rbasak: note that that will _not_ detect clients that no longer use your app but have it installed, nor clients that did a factory reinstall
[13:53] <dobey> rbasak: i'm not quite sure what you're trying to do exactly, but it seems like you're trying to make it overly complex for no good reason
[13:53] <rbasak> If so, how does the app re-acquire a new valid token if there's something that has expired?
[13:53] <Chipaca> rbasak: we don't expire tokens, so no
[13:53] <jibel> awe_, hey, I replied this morning, I see a 'no-connection' icon. Is there any additional info I can provide?
[13:53] <rbasak> dobey: I don't see how else I'd do this.
[13:54] <awe_> thanks jibel... I checked the bug, but missed your comment.  Let me check again
[13:54] <rbasak> I just expect an implementation to not grow its DB indefinitely with dead clients. That's all.
[13:54] <Chipaca> rbasak: ah! just realised something
[13:54] <Chipaca> rbasak: you will, eventually, get a "too many messages pending" error
[13:54] <Chipaca> rbasak: so you could take that as an indication of a dead client
[13:55] <Chipaca> in the no-longer-using-the-phone sense
[13:55] <dobey> rbasak: what is "this" exactly? i have no idea what you're even trying to do with your app/scope, outside of arbitrary public broadcast notifications
[13:55] <rbasak> Chipaca: the problem is that if the client does wake up (say it was off for a fee weeks), then I'll be treating it as dead, and not send it notifications.
[13:55] <rbasak> dobey: I'm thinking of UK Met Office severe weather warnings, by region.
[13:55] <Chipaca> rbasak: nice
[13:56] <kalikiana> dandrader: okay
[13:56] <Chipaca> rbasak: you've got to cut off at some point
[13:56] <Chipaca> rbasak: three weeks is too soon? so send pings less often :)
[13:56] <rbasak> Chipaca: right, but then the app will be dead, and the user won't know.
[13:56] <Chipaca> rbasak: the app will know it's dead, surely?
[13:56] <Chipaca> i mean
[13:56] <rbasak> Chipaca: which is useless for this kind of alert.
[13:56] <dobey> hmm, there has got to be a better way to do that
[13:56] <rbasak> How will the app know it's dead? It'll never wake up again.
[13:57] <Chipaca> rbasak: you're wanting P and ~P at the same time :)
[13:57] <rbasak> Polling would be far easier here, but I understand why you don't permit it.
[13:57] <Chipaca> rbasak: either you want to be able to send notifications to everybody including people who have their device off for three months and then come back, or you'r enot
[13:57] <rbasak> I'd just like some better lifecycle management in the notification service.
[13:57] <Chipaca> rbasak: no, no you don't
[13:57] <Chipaca> sigh
[13:57] <rbasak> Chipaca: I want to send notifications to everybody in a particular location who has the app installed.
[13:57] <Chipaca> rbasak: what you're wanting is not computable
[13:58] <rbasak> When their phones are on
[13:58] <dobey> i think notifications is the wrong solution to your problem
[13:58] <rbasak> And, I want my server to be lean, by forgetting about clients not seen in a while.
[13:58]  * ogra_ agrees, whisky is the better solution to your problem ...
[13:58] <Elleo> rbasak: you could have the app ping the server to re-register on start up
[13:58] <rbasak> Which means that I expect my app to have a hook called when it needs to re-register.
[13:58] <Elleo> rbasak: then if its been off for three months and lost from the server it just gets added again
[13:58] <Chipaca> rbasak: when is your app run?
[13:58] <rbasak> Elleo: but that means the user has to run the app manually, which users won't do.
[13:59] <Chipaca> rbasak: that is, when does the user run your app?
[13:59] <rbasak> Chipaca: ideally never, but I think it might be necessary to run it once because of the current API.
[13:59] <dobey> ogra_: +1
[13:59] <ogra_> :)
[13:59] <Chipaca> rbasak: you'll need the user to run the app often, not just once
[13:59] <Chipaca> push doesn't expire tokens, but u1 does
[14:00] <rbasak> Chipaca: right, but that's a problem. The user won't do that.
[14:00] <rbasak> It should be install-and-forget.
[14:00] <Chipaca> yes, that's a problem
[14:00] <rbasak> That's why I think better notification lifecycle management would fix this.
[14:00] <dobey> it wouldn't
[14:00] <rbasak> Call an app hook when you treat a token as expired.
[14:00] <dobey> because the thing you want is to not have an app
[14:01] <Chipaca> rbasak: you say that, but you haven't explained how that would fix your problem (and i don't think it would) :)
[14:01] <rbasak> Allow my server to poll your endpoint to find out if a token is still valid.
[14:01] <Chipaca> rbasak: you can do that, and i told you how to do that
[14:01] <dobey> you're using an app as a workaround to get notifications
[14:01] <Chipaca> rbasak: that's not your problem
[14:01] <Chipaca> and now i don't know who you're answering any more
[14:02] <rbasak> Maybe give tokens expiry timestamps. Tell the app the timestamps so it can tell my server. And call the app once on token expiry. Renew token timestamps every time a notification comes through if you like.
[14:02] <Chipaca> and i've lost my context from my actual work, dammit :(
[14:02]  * Chipaca should learn
[14:02] <rbasak> Chipaca: ^^ that would do it.
[14:02] <Chipaca> "call the app once on token expiry"
[14:02] <Chipaca> so, like, pop up a window in the user's face because a random token expired?
[14:02] <Chipaca> that's not going to work is it
[14:03] <rbasak> No, in the background.
[14:03] <Chipaca> so, a helper
[14:03] <Chipaca> a helper that has access to the internet is what you want
[14:03] <rbasak> Sure, but the helper needs to be able to talk to my server.
[14:03] <Chipaca> and you don't see that being abused
[14:03] <rbasak> Yes, fair enough.
[14:03] <rbasak> It won't be abused if it only happens when a token expires, which would be rare.
[14:03] <rbasak> If you renew tokens on every notification.
[14:03] <Chipaca> rbasak: tokens. do not. expire.
[14:03] <rbasak> (that the user interacts with, presumably)
[14:04] <Chipaca> push tokens, that is
[14:04] <rbasak> Chipaca: you asked me what I would change to fix the problem. This is it.
[14:04] <rbasak> If you insist that tokens cannot expire, then you have my claimed design flaw
[14:04] <rbasak> There may be other solutions thoguh.
[14:04] <Chipaca> sigh
[14:05] <Chipaca> rbasak: is your app going to be free software?
[14:05] <rbasak> Chipaca: yes.
[14:05] <Chipaca> rbasak: make your push helper use the networking policy, and have it manually reviewed
[14:05] <Chipaca> rbasak: it'll be slow, and you'll have to ask very very very nicely
[14:05] <Chipaca> but that should be doable
[14:06] <Chipaca> rbasak: but what you're wanting to do is basically not supported at this moment, hence why you're finding it so hard
[14:06] <Chipaca> rbasak: everything is centered on user interaction
[14:06] <Chipaca> rbasak: if the user doesn't interact, nothing happens
[14:06] <rbasak> Chipaca: OK, that's a way forward - thanks. I hope it'll also demonstrate my problem better, and hopefully others will be able to suggest how I should do it, or failing that how the framework could be improved to allow it but without permitting abuse.
[14:07] <Chipaca> rbasak: people will be able to sideload even if you don't get it into the store
[14:07] <Chipaca> so yes, it gives you a way forward, and you can build a case for it that way
[14:07] <rbasak> OK. Thanks. I appreciate your time. Gives me a firm answer, rather than wondering if there's something I'm missing.
[14:08] <Chipaca> yw; sorry we're not awesome enough for you to do everything you dream of (yet)
[14:08] <Chipaca> :)
[14:08] <rbasak> BTW, I intend to charm the server-side component too.
[14:08]  * Chipaca back to work
[14:08] <dobey> i'll maintain that the best way to do this, is to not :)
[14:08] <rbasak> dobey: right, but how else?
[14:08] <Chipaca> dobey: you're only bitter because you can't do your car integration thing :-p
[14:09] <dobey> i'm not bitter at all
[14:09] <dobey> this just seems like trying to force information overload on people
[14:09] <Chipaca> dobey: MET alerts would be good to have just happen
[14:10] <Chipaca> Met, not MET. anyway.
[14:10] <rbasak> It's a bit awkward to map locations, but the Met Office have an RSS feed I can use.
[14:11] <dobey> perhaps. probably best to do that via a GB market phone with system integration where those alerts are pulled off FM radio or whatever, though
[14:11] <awe_> jibel, just replied to your comment... there are a couple of other things that would help me reproduce...  I'm also working on reproducing myself
[14:11] <rbasak> If I'm going to break from the standard confinement, maybe I should just write it so it polls?
[14:11] <Chipaca> rbasak: hah. no. :)
[14:11] <Chipaca> well
[14:11] <Chipaca> i mean
[14:11] <Chipaca> do what you want
[14:12] <Chipaca> :)
[14:12] <rbasak> :)
[14:12] <rbasak> The trouble is for free software with no real business case bandwidth has to be paid for so it doesn't scale.
[14:12] <dobey> or get Met to implement notifications for ubuntu phones
[14:13] <rbasak> Unlikely :)
[14:13] <rbasak> OTOH, I don't think a phone polling once in a while is that bad, as long as it's coordinated, infrequent, and so maybe manually moderated.
[14:14] <rbasak> Or, maybe the notification service could allow pubsub. Then it would scale.
[14:14] <ogra_> well, the current push service wakes up the device every 5 min anyway
[14:14] <dobey> polld or push?
[14:14] <ogra_> dunno, some part of the push system :)
[14:15] <dobey> eh, who needs notifications anyway, when the battery is dead from all the polling :P
[14:16] <silvia_> hello, in my bq
[14:17] <silvia_> the tool for copy and paste text inside facebook and twitter aplication
[14:18] <silvia_> don't work..anyone with the same problem?
[14:18] <ogra_> copy/paste is definitely an area for improvement :) i think there are still some toolkit bugs
[14:20] <silvia_> i hope that will fixed soon, is very inportant for share in a easy way the links..
[14:20] <ogra_> bzoltan_, ^^^ do we have a bug open for copy/paste ?
[14:24] <popey> we do
[14:24] <ogra_> (or zsombi or t1mp ^^^^)
[14:24] <ogra_> good
[14:24] <popey> for the browser and oxide
[14:24] <ogra_> ah, its a webview thing
[14:24] <ogra_> well ...
[14:24] <ogra_> it has to me more than that, i cant paste urls in the empty browser url bar
[14:27] <t1mp> I don't see a copy&paste bug for the ui toolkit
[14:27] <ogra_> well, the url bar is definitely UITK
[14:27] <ogra_> pasting in website forms is oxide
[14:30] <jibel> awe_, I'll add info to the bug report, but only 1st SIM has a data plan and the second SIM was selected. It's the second time I notice that. Initially I thought I didn't a mistake but this time I'm sure I didn't switch data to the second SIM.
[14:30] <jibel> s/didn't a/did a/
[14:34] <awe_> jibel, did it switch on you, or was it this way after you flashed?
[14:34] <awe_> this is yet another issue we have with krillin; unfortunately the fix is a bit painful to fix correctly, but this will raise the heat on it
[14:36] <jibel> awe_, I am not sure, I flashed so many times. I can reflash and see which SIM is active for data. It looks random.
[14:37] <awe_> yes... that's one of the two bugs with which SIM is selected
[14:37] <awe_> first, that the SIM selected after first boot is non-deterministic
[14:38] <awe_> second, very rarely... the selected mobile data SIM can switch by itself
[14:38] <jibel> davmor2, do you know a way to know which image was originally flashed on a device before any OTA?
[14:41] <davmor2> jibel: no, ogra_ ^
[14:41] <ogra_> jibel, /var/log/installer/media-info perhaps ?
[14:42]  * ogra_ isnt sure if we replace that on upgrades
[14:42] <jibel> ogra_, that's what I checked for it's a link to /etc/media-info and it's the current build number
[14:42] <ogra_> ah, damn
[14:43] <jibel> I'll figure out from some logs, just want an approximation when I first flashed this device
[14:45] <jibel> awe_, so I flashed this device a week ago, and I had cellular data at some point.
[14:45] <ogra_> jibel, creation time of some dirs in /var/log could perhaps give you a rough estimate
[14:46] <jibel> ogra_, yeah, bootstrap.log for example
[14:47] <jibel> awe_, then I applied avery OTA
[14:47] <jibel> every*
[14:48] <awe_> jibel, OK..the if mobile data is working this seems to be a case where the mobile data SIM setting changed on it's own
[14:48] <awe_> have you rebooted the device?
[14:48] <jibel> awe_, yes, for each OTA
[14:48] <awe_> ok
[14:49] <awe_> please add these details to the bug
[14:49] <awe_> I have to duck away for a few minutes before my standup
[14:49] <awe_> thanks for the help on this one
[15:14] <kenvandine> tedg, zsombi: we should be able to kill off my content-hub branch completely, if the .desktop file has --url=%u UAL will pass that for free
[15:14] <tedg> Yeah
[15:15] <zsombi> kenvandine: sounds cool, so none of you has any work there :D
[15:15] <kenvandine> zsombi, except you :)
[15:15] <zsombi> kenvandine: yeah...
[15:15] <kenvandine> zsombi, i can help test though, if you'd like :)
[15:16] <zsombi> kenvandine: as it should come thru arguments, it's easier for me to test
[15:16] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:16] <zsombi> but thx, I'll make a note on that :D
[15:24] <rvr> karni: http://docs.transifex.com/developer/formats/
[15:25] <karni> rvr: thank you. this is great. (sorry, I'd google, but I'm swamped...)
[15:25] <rvr> karni: Gettext is listed as a supported format, but I don't know whether the user can request to download in a specific format
[15:25] <rvr> or that is something that the project owner sets
[15:25] <karni> rvr: I'm writing an e-mail to Telegram task force asking what we would need to make use of it
[15:25] <karni> rvr: ack, thank you!
[15:35] <Se7> adb shell
[15:35] <Se7> error: device not found :(
[15:36] <Se7> i installed android-tools-adb enabled developer mode connect the phone via usb but i got that error
[15:38] <Isotop7> im trying to port ubuntu touch to jfltexx but it fails with missing parameters in QCameraParameters.cpp...can somebody help me?
[15:42] <davmor2> Se7: on what operating system
[15:42] <Se7> xubuntu
[15:42] <davmor2> Se7: and what version
[15:42] <Se7> mmm
[15:44] <Se7> 3.13.0-48-generic
[15:44] <davmor2> Se7: sorry what release of xubuntu
[15:44] <ogra_> lsb_release -r
[15:45] <Se7> 14.04
[15:45] <davmor2> Se7: then you'll need to add a file ogra_ can you name it of hand?  I can't remember it
[15:45] <ogra_> and did you install android-tools-adb from the phablet-tools PPA ?
[15:46] <ogra_> i doubt the one in the release knows about the device
[15:46] <Se7> yep ogra_
[15:46] <Se7> add-apt-repository ppa:phablet-team/tools
[15:46] <davmor2> ogra_: on 14.04 don't you need to add a .adb file or something to the ~/ folder
[15:47] <popey> we should document this on askubuntu
[15:47] <ogra_> davmor2, not with the right udev rules
[15:47] <davmor2> ogra_: ah I thought you still did
[15:48] <ogra_> grep 2a47 /lib/udev/rules.d/70-android-tools-adb.rules
[15:48] <ogra_> Se7, ^^^
[15:48] <Se7> ok
[15:48] <ogra_> does that command return anything ?
[15:48] <Se7> # Applies to 2a47 (BQ)
[15:48] <Se7>   ATTRS{idVendor}=="2a47", \
[15:48] <ogra_> very weird
[15:48] <ogra_> then it should work
[15:48] <ogra_> did you have any other adb installed before ?
[15:48] <davmor2> Se7: did you reboot
[15:49] <Se7> dont remember..try to reboot see you in a bit
[15:50]  * ogra_ wonders if uaccess handling is perhaps broken or disabled in xubuntu 
[15:50] <Se7> oh wait i got an icon on the desktop
[15:50] <davmor2> ogra_: it's quicker and easier than restarting dbus and adb and...
[15:50] <Se7> work now :)
[15:50] <ogra_> :)
[15:51] <davmor2> Se7: also don't forget for adb to work you need to enable developer mode on the phone and also have the screen active and logged in
[15:51] <ogra_> Se7, install phablet-tools too ... phablet-shell is way nicer than plain adb
[15:51] <Se7> i can go in the phone now in the gui mode
[15:52] <ogra_> (on your xubuntu i meant)
[15:52] <Se7> yep understood ogra_
[15:53] <Se7> thank you
[15:55] <Se7> ogra_, i think i did
[15:56] <tsdgeos> jgdx: kenvandine: can i change the sim pin from the system settings app (or anywhere else)?
[15:57] <jgdx> tsdgeos, yes, it's possible to change it from system settings.
[15:57] <tsdgeos> jgdx: couldn't find it :/
[15:57] <kenvandine> under security
[15:57] <jgdx> tsdgeos, Settings -> Security & Privacy
[15:57] <jgdx> SIM PIN
[15:58] <tsdgeos> he, tried phone, cellular and all that seemed phone-ish
[15:58] <tsdgeos> not security :D
[15:59] <tsdgeos> though i just realized the BB10 also has it under Security
[15:59] <tsdgeos> so it's just me being a bad searcher
[16:06] <brunch875> oi I just noticed updates show "resume" instead of "pause" when they start downloading
[16:06] <brunch875> so to pause, you first have to resume and then pause
[16:09] <ogra_> mandel, ^^
[16:23] <mandel> brunch875, hm... ok, got it, will test and fix that asap
[16:23] <mandel> brunch875, have you reported a bug under lp:ubuntu-system-settings?
[16:59] <dobey> rvr: hey, i've removed pay-ui from bug #1438419 and added webbrowser-app instead. also attached a simple html file which can be used to replicate the same issue in webbrowser-app.
[17:01] <rvr> dobey: Great!
[17:22] <mcphail> What is the invokation to install a non-appstore click package?
[17:23] <ogra_> pkcon install-local --allow-untrusted /path/to/click
[17:28] <mcphail> ogra_: thanks
[17:36] <nhaines> Just giving notice that I ordered a Nexus 7 on Groupon to use with Ubuntu, so it's safe to drop support for the hardware now.
[17:36]  * ogra_ notes down ... 
[17:37] <ogra_> nhaines, i'll bring it up in one of the next meetings, thanks for the info
[17:37] <nhaines> +1, great efficiency!
[17:37] <ogra_> :)
[17:39] <nhaines> It'll be interesting to see how it works out.  :)  Actually, if the Ubuntu browser supported bookmarklets, I'd be happy.  That and if there were a Netflix webapp available.  ;)
[17:44] <sammyg132> Hey All, i have a source code for my device and everything but if my device runs 4.4.4, would i still be able to port Ubuntu touch to my Redmi Note 4G
[18:04] <jgdx> pitti, hi, I've created a pr [1] against dbusmock. Could you take a look? [1] https://github.com/martinpitt/python-dbusmock/pull/6
[18:09] <nhaines> Who's in charge of the Ubuntu browser stuff?
[18:10] <nhaines> Specifically, I want to be able to enter arbitrary Javascript into the address bar and have it run, so who do I have to convince that this is a good idea and should be a thing?  :)
[18:12] <popey> nhaines: osomon
[18:15] <nhaines> popey: thanks.
[18:15] <nhaines> Also, pretend I said "whom" earlier.
[18:17] <popey> nah, that would be grammatically incorrect in a couple of ways. Uncapitalised and "whom in charge".. tsk
[18:18] <nhaines> No, as in "whom do I have to convince".  :)
[18:18] <popey> ah, retracted.
[18:19] <nhaines> My friend's kid is English/German bilingual, and when he asks what/how/who when he's only half-listening to me he asks "whom?" appropriately.  It's adorable.
[18:20] <nhaines> But it really did take studying German for who/whom to click.  At least there's only two words and not four in English!
[18:43] <brunch875> mandel: about the bug with "update menu in paused state when download starts active", I haven't reported it. Sorry I took to long to say :P
[18:43] <mandel> brunch875, no problem :)
[18:43] <mandel> brunch875, do you mind reporing one and giving me the link, I'll take it from there
[18:47] <brunch875> all right, give me a sec
[18:49] <brunch875> mandel: should I upload it to the Click Uptade Manager instead?
[18:49] <brunch875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click-update-manager/+filebug?no_redirect
[18:50] <mandel> brunch875, not, although the name does point to that project, it is not the right one :)
[18:50] <mandel> brunch875, should be ubuntu-system-settings, it is the one that takes of the click updates atm
[18:50] <brunch875> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+filebug
[18:50] <dobey> yes
[18:51] <brunch875> I'll get right to t!
[18:52] <mandel> brunch875, awesome! let me know once it is done and I'll track the issue
[18:55] <brunch875> oh awesome, there's a new update. I'll take screenshots this time
[18:55] <brunch875> there's no "desktop recording" right?
[18:58] <brunch875> it worked as expected this time :|
[19:15] <brunch875> mandel: coocoooo https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1438867
[19:15] <mandel> brunch875, awesome, thx
[19:26] <htc> hello. can anyone help me flash ubuntu touch on htc desire s?
[19:35] <taiebot> awe_ regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ofono/+bug/1431026 i just have one context anymore but is called context23
[19:38] <Se7> htc
[19:38] <Se7> lol has quit
[19:41] <lemmster> Can I dual boot to Android on the Aquaris e4.5 Ubuntu edition?
[19:42] <popey> not that I've seen.
[19:42] <popey> might be possible with some hackery
[19:44] <aquarius> popey, not sure if you know about this, but: is it possible to hide the header in the Document Viewer so that I can see a document fullscreen? (If not, I'll file a bug about it; if it is, I may file one about making it more obvious :))
[19:46] <popey> aquarius: no need for a bug, it's already filed and in progress
[19:46] <aquarius> popey, oh! cool. Everyone else is, as ever, faster than me :)
[19:46] <popey> bug 1428718
[19:47] <aquarius> is Document Viewer not installed by default because you aren't quite happy with it yet? It seems like the sort of thing that I think ought to be there :)
[19:47] <popey> basically, yes.
[19:47] <aquarius> fair enough then!
[19:47] <popey> Once zooming is fixed, and full screen, we'll propose it
[19:47] <aquarius> zooming works for me?
[19:48] <popey> the bug above came about because I asked if it could be default and bill reviewed it
[19:48] <popey> so we need those fixed first
[19:48] <aquarius> although all I did was pinch and go "yay it zooms" and then ignore it, so I haven't tried anything real yet ;)
[19:48] <popey> try zooming when you have it on a page boundary
[19:48] <aquarius> ah
[19:48] <aquarius> it seems pretty slick to me, though; nice work, core apps team
[19:48] <popey> also try pinching in the middle of the screen
[19:48] <popey> yeah, Stefano is a super guy.
[19:50] <aquarius> do you know anything about Ubuntu SDK's publish pane being weirdly broken, btw? It seems to not show anything for me; no publish button, etc. I'm assuming there's something broken and I'll get an update at some point.
[19:50] <popey> super busy though so things moving a bit slower than he'd like. University and complex issues.
[19:50] <popey> pass
[19:50] <popey> i tend to do everything in the command line :S
[19:51] <nhaines> aquarius: did you ever get any further on that Kindle Cloud Reader webapp?
[19:51] <aquarius> nhaines, it is published, as of about half an hour ago :)
[19:52] <nhaines> Oh cool!  Everyone else is--as always--faster than me.  :)
[19:52] <aquarius> well, pass on to him my appreciation; needed to view a pdf, installed document viewer, tapped pdf in telegram, document viewer showed in share window, viewed pdf. I can't see how it could be much easier than that, other than the Share window not including too many wrong things, and *suggesting* apps that will actually do what you want, but that's not the core apps team's thing to fix (and is perhaps a big favouri
[19:52] <aquarius> tism nightmare to boot)
[19:52] <aquarius> good one Stefano.
[19:53] <popey> also.
[19:53] <popey> tried your cloud reader, opened a book, couldn't get out of it
[19:53] <aquarius> popey, tap *right* at the bottom of the screen
[19:53] <popey> ah
[19:53] <aquarius> er, that is, tap *exactly* at the bottom of the screen
[19:54] <popey> does it really work offline?
[19:54] <popey> it said something about downloading stuff
[19:54] <aquarius> I doubt it. Haven't tried. :)
[19:54] <popey> and I thought "nahhh"
[19:54] <aquarius> it did; it caches stuff in appcache
[19:54] <popey> shame scrolling is a bit wonky
[19:54] <aquarius> so if you're in a real browser, it will
[19:54] <aquarius> but it is not clear to me that our webapp-container supports things like appcache properly
[19:54]  * popey tests this
[19:54] <popey> airplane mode engaged
[19:54]  * popey makes airplane noises
[19:55] <aquarius> so I do not know. :)
[19:55] <popey> ah crap, i have two icons
[19:55] <popey> one from testing this before
[19:55] <aquarius> robru, ping about you bundling up soonsnap.com as a webapp and then it not working ;)
[19:55] <nhaines> aquarius: it asks me to sign into my Amazon.co.uk account but I'm an American.  1 star.
[19:56] <popey> hah
[19:56] <aquarius> er
[19:56] <aquarius> really?
[19:56] <aquarius> hm
[19:56] <robru> aquarius: is it broken again? I fixed it once already....
[19:56]  * popey remembers he's in airplane mode
[19:56] <aquarius> wonder if I made the URL amazon.co.uk? ;)
[19:57] <popey> Exec=webapp-container --webappModelSearchPath=. --store-session-cookies --webappUrlPatterns=https?://read.amazon.co.uk/*,https?://www.amazon.co.uk/*,https?://amazon.co.uk/* --user-agent-string='Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu Chromium/39.0.2171.65 Chrome/39.0.2171.65 Safari/537.36' https://read.amazon.co.uk/ %u
[19:57] <popey> you did
[19:57] <popey> Correctly, of course.
[19:57] <aquarius> robru, oh, if you've fixed it then great. A couple of the reviews, and a direct complaint by pmcgowan, said that it was sending blacked-out images; I asked if it works in the actual browser but haven't heard. If it's broken in he actual browser then it's my fault; if it's broken in the webapp only then it's yours; but if it was broken in the webapp and you fixed it then I'll shut up. :)
[19:57] <aquarius> hahaha amzon.co.uk ftw.
[19:57] <popey> Stinky Americans shouldn't be using our lovely British websites!
[19:57] <aquarius> nhaines, that's what you get for throwing all that tea into the harbour.
[19:57] <popey> +1
[19:57] <aquarius> On a more serious note... how do I fix this?
[19:58] <aquarius> what *should* it do? Importantly, I'm not having it just go to amazon.com and therefore break it similarly for us :P
[19:58] <popey> have 5 apps in the store :S
[19:58] <popey> Seshat UK
[19:58] <nhaines> aquarius: ha, well, all Amazon accounts are combined except for Amazon.co.jp, maybe?
[19:58] <nhaines> So it should be just fine.
[19:58] <popey> (yes, that sucks, and I know you're shouting at the screen now)
[19:59] <popey> aquarius: tested, no, doesn't work offline
[19:59] <aquarius> just signed into read.amazon.com and all my books are there
[19:59] <popey> browser tries to get to read.amazon.co.uk and "helpfully" puts up an error
[19:59] <robru> aquarius: well i fixed it some time ago, if pmcgowan's complaint is recent then it might be broken again. I'll give it a shot in a minute here (just have some food on the grill_
[19:59] <aquarius> nhaines, so I assume you signing into amazon.co.uk should work as well :)
[19:59] <nhaines> aquarius: yes, I was just having a go.  I've since signed in and it seems to all be there.
[19:59] <popey> \o/ carried on with the book where I left off
[20:00] <aquarius> robru, he reported it to me about two days ago, but I don't know whether it was a problem for him three weeks previously or something :)
[20:00] <popey> shame the UI is all off-screen
[20:00] <popey> so hard to set colours etc
[20:00] <popey> sorry, colors
[20:00] <aquarius> it's not *all* off screen.
[20:00] <aquarius> a reasonable amount of it is onscreen :)
[20:00] <popey> haha
[20:00]  * popey tests on mx4
[20:00] <aquarius> I patched read.amazon enough that you can read books and you can see *most* of the config UI.
[20:00] <aquarius> patching it so you can see it all involves considerably more surgery to the UI
[20:01] <aquarius> although, I'll be honest, I gave up in a fit of pique when I discovered that I wasn't allowed to publish the app even though it worked. Now that I am, I should revisit it :)
[20:02] <nhaines> My favorite feature is the one where the book list won't scroll.
[20:02] <aquarius> it will, by tapping on the scrollbar.
[20:02] <popey> not much better on mx4
[20:02] <aquarius> this is what happens when you invent stupid custom scrollbars, Amazon, rather than using what the browser gives you, sigh.
[20:03] <aquarius> anyway, I freely admit that seshat is basically a hack to get it working, rather than a well-supported well-tested great-ui app, and I expect to see reviews averaging at 3 stars rather than 5 :)
[20:04] <popey> i expect 4, 3 if you charged for it.
[20:05] <brunch875> uuugh
[20:05] <brunch875> how to download stuff?
[20:05] <brunch875> when clicking on a link with a .zip, it opens "Open with" with surry, no apps can handle this
[20:05] <brunch875> workaround is using wget, but I doubt the common user likes this
[20:06] <nhaines> aquarius: hmm, looks like an interesting start, thanks.  :)
[20:12] <aquarius> brunch875, I don't think there's an app to open zip archives yet, I'm afraid.
[20:15] <brunch875> yeah, there's tar; right?
[20:15] <brunch875> what I mean is you can't actually download the thing
[20:15] <brunch875> opening it isn't an issue
[20:18] <popey> file manager can unpack zip files :)
[20:18] <popey> \o/ core apps to the rescue again
[20:19] <aquarius> popey, does file manager put itself in Share as a destiation for zips?
[20:19]  * brunch875 mimics popey: nnnnjjjiiiiaaaaooooo
[20:19] <popey> probably not
[20:19]  * aquarius tests... it doesn't ;(
[20:19] <popey> one should test and file a bug
[20:21] <aquarius> and the web browser, if it can't find anything to open a file, doesn't download the file :(
[20:21] <aquarius> having just checked that. :(
[20:23] <aquarius> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app/+bug/1438903 filed
[20:24] <aquarius> brunch875, so, sorry about that. There is a terminal-based solution if you're comfortable with that
[20:25] <brunch875> don't mind me, I like hacking around :)
[20:28] <aquarius> brunch875, yeah; you could from the terminal wget the zip file and then unzip it, if you fancy getting down to that level :)
[20:30] <brunch875> I just adb-pushed from computer
[20:31] <brunch875> thing with wget is I was trying to download one of those links which "will be ready after 10 seconds" using wget downloads an html page
[20:31] <brunch875> I've read the wget manpages but I couldn't really find the solution
[20:31] <brunch875> many many parameters
[20:32] <brunch875> so I just said "aaagh, screw it" and used the computer. Although I really start learning how to properly use wget :P
[20:33] <taiebot> nik90 do you know that the images  are not downloaded in flashback on vivid devel-proposed?
[20:35] <nik90> taiebot: I removed Flashback from the stores since it requires a lot of work to do the API transition to v2 and also implementing a good backend to cache lots images. At the moment it is pretty inefficient at what it does.
[20:36] <aquarius> brunch875, yeah, that's probably the easiest approach :)
[20:36] <nik90> taiebot: upstream support for v1 is almost dead with the servers performing poorly. They highly switching to API v2 and I don't have the time for it I am afraid
[20:36] <taiebot> nik90 ok thanks for letting me know. It was a very good app
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/There-Are-Now-More-than-1000-Apps-and-Scopes-for-Ubuntu-Touch-477079.shtml
[20:37] <nik90> taiebot: thnx. The code is all open and available at https://github.com/krnekhelesh/flashback. I am might get back to it when I get some time.
[20:44] <mcphail> aargh - stuck in vim! How can I send ESCAPE from the keyboard in the terminal app?
[20:44] <brunch875> ctrl+C
[20:44] <brunch875> it does the same
[20:45] <brunch875> (on the desktop too)
[20:45] <mcphail> brunch875: ty
[20:45] <brunch875> actually, I use ctrl+c because escape is so far away
[20:48] <awe_> taiebot, you still around?
[20:48] <popey> mcphail: in terminal, hold down the orange keyboard button
[20:48] <popey> choose vim :)
[20:48] <taiebot> awe_ yep
[20:49] <brunch875> FNS*
[20:49] <brunch875> shhhh popey, don't tell them
[20:49] <awe_> so couple of questions...  did you check your date & time settings?
[20:49] <brunch875> ctrl+c is superior
[20:51] <taiebot> awe_ yeah checked date on adb and the date is accurate
[20:51] <awe_> ok, just wondering as your syslog timestamps seemed pretty weird
[20:52] <awe_> taiebot, have you every installed different SIMs in the device?
[20:52] <kwah> hi. is there an app to monitor mobile data usage???
[20:52] <awe_> kwah, no...not yet
[20:53] <awe_> this is something that will live in system settings also.. not really an app type feature
[20:53] <kwah> awe_, clear. any ideas on such/similar app being developed?
[20:54] <taiebot> awe: yes i might have put my girlfriend simcard but that was ages ago.
[20:54] <awe_> kwah, it's something we certainly want to support, but I can't give you an estimate as to when...
[20:54] <taiebot> http://pastebin.com/eHNPs1nk awe my var/log  permissions
[20:55] <awe_> taiebot, there's a regression in NM that causes it to look at SIM data for SIMs which aren't currently inserted
[20:55] <awe_> this should land soon
[20:55] <taiebot> awe: some are really old and some are up to date? is that normal?
[20:56] <awe_> every time you install a new SIM in the phone, we create a settings directory for that SIM
[20:56] <awe_> network-manager is only every supposed to look at the directory associated with the current SIM present in the phone
[20:57] <awe_> and unfortunately there'a regression that was introduced when network-manager 0.9.10 was released to vivid
[20:57] <awe_> if you want, I can help you fix your phone right now
[20:57] <awe_> first, please do an ls of /var/lib/ofono
[20:57] <awe_> and pastebin it
[20:57] <taiebot> awe:  ok
[20:59] <taiebot> awe: only two files there 234010012419351  234010012419351-2
[20:59] <awe_> ok, so that's not your issue
[20:59] <awe_> mind doing a pastebin of the contents of /var/lib/234010012419351/gprs?
[21:03] <taiebot> awe_ http://pastebin.com/iXYk1SfH
[21:04] <awe_> hmmm
[21:04] <awe_> ok, let me poke at your syslog again... this is pretty weird
[21:06] <taiebot> awe_ could it be that my syslog is not recorded following this  http://pastebin.com/eHNPs1nk
[21:07] <oSoMoN> rpadovani, hey, FYI I wrote autopilot tests for the settings page: https://code.launchpad.net/~osomon/webbrowser-app/settings-page-ap-tests/+merge/254788
[21:08] <awe_> rsalveti, did we make a change to the ownership of files in /var/log in vivid?
[21:08] <awe_> taiebot, my mako currently has syslog owned by syslog:adm, but I'm running rtm
[21:09] <rpadovani> oSoMoN, thanks :-) I'll take a look to them tomorrow
[21:09] <rsalveti> awe_: ogra_ did push a few changes to make sure the permission is correct in there
[21:09] <awe_> taiebot, have you done any customization of your phone?  are you running a stock image, or are you running a dual-boot image
[21:09] <rsalveti> but it seems that there is a bug that shows up sometimes that makes /var/log to be owned by another group
[21:09] <taiebot> awe:  stock image
[21:10] <awe_> taiebot, let me re-flash my mako
[21:10] <awe_> are you going to be on for awhile?
[21:10] <rsalveti> sudo chown root:syslog /var/log
[21:10] <rsalveti> then reboot should fix
[21:10] <awe_> rsalveti, is there a bug for this?
[21:10] <rsalveti> is this rtm or vivid?
[21:11] <awe_> vivid
[21:11] <awe_> mako
[21:11] <taiebot> awe, rsalveti: i have upgraded religiously my phone since 2013 O:-) congrats for your hardwork it has been really enjoyable..
[21:12] <taiebot> and still is..
[21:12] <rsalveti> nice
[21:12] <awe_> taiebot, sure... but running devel-proposed is a bit risky... have you ever re-flashed it since then?
[21:12] <lotuspsychje> congrats for everyones hard work here, you devs are amazing
[21:12]  * awe_ smiles
[21:12] <lotuspsychje> what an impact on the world
[21:13] <taiebot> rsalveti, awe: never reflashed as deleting my data
[21:13] <awe_> taiebot, re-flashing doesn't delete data, unless you specify --wipe
[21:13] <taiebot> awe, rsalveti just changed channel quite regularly
[21:13] <awe_> ?
[21:13] <awe_> hmmm
[21:13] <awe_> that's not really recommended
[21:13] <rsalveti> can't find the permission bug right now, ogra might know
[21:14] <awe_> and can lead to strange behavior
[21:14] <taiebot> awe: depending on the bootability of the device
[21:14] <rsalveti> yeah, usually best to try using with the same channel
[21:14] <rsalveti> or at least same base release
[21:15] <awe_> taiebot, my recommendation would be to do a fresh flash.  If you really want to live on the bleeding edge, then flash vivid-proposed
[21:15] <awe_> that said, there are bugs in vivid, that we're working on
[21:15] <taiebot> awe: would still not keep my /var/log intact?
[21:15] <awe_> if you've changed channels, and updated, things can definitely be in an inconsistent state
[21:16] <awe_> you syslog is currently pretty messed up
[21:16] <awe_> it's date is from Aug!
[21:16] <awe_> and it shows a bad suspend loop, that looks like problems with the modem
[21:17] <awe_> I'm flashing my mako now with the latest vivid-proposed
[21:17] <awe_> and pretty confident 3g will come up right away
[21:17] <taiebot> awe: depends on the file dmesg is correct date while kern.log is jul 28 2014
[21:17] <awe_> yea, but it's 2015 last time I checked
[21:17] <awe_> ;)
[21:18] <taiebot> yeah true but what about apport.log?
[21:18] <awe_> again, the phone really isn't meant to have channels switched around and get continual updates all along
[21:18] <awe_> taiebot, what about it?
[21:18] <taiebot> -rw-r----- 1 root        adm      7758 Mar 31 21:16 apport.log
[21:19] <taiebot> Can /var/log be full?
[21:19] <awe_> sure, some of your logs are correct, and some aren't
[21:19] <awe_> you can check with df
[21:21] <taiebot> Apart from /dev/loop1                        108716  107216      1500  99% /lib/modules
[21:22] <taiebot> everything seems ok
[21:22] <DonkeyHotei> rsalveti: this is syslog when i try to play an mp4 video http://paste.ubuntu.com/10696198/
[21:29] <robru> aquarius: hmmm, just tried sending photos back and forth between my arale and krillin, they both "worked" in the sense that the correct photo showed up in the webapp on the receiving device, however the option to save the photo seems to have failed (can't find the photo anywhere after saving it), so it seems something goofy is happening in content-hub
[21:30] <awe_> taiebot, I just flashed vivid-devel #156 on my mako, and 3g comes up just fine.  Also, the permissions in /var/log look normal
[21:30] <awe_> taiebot, my honest opinion is that you have a corrupt/broken image on your phone due to channel changes & updates
[21:31] <awe_> I'd seriously recommend a fresh flash of vivid-devel ( if you want to continue on the bleeding edge )
[21:32] <taiebot> awe: is there anyway i could force a restart of the syslog?
[21:32] <awe_> and realize that switching channels like you've done in the past is *not* recommended, and if you continue to do so, be prepared to use flash to fix it
[21:32] <awe_> reboot?
[21:33] <taiebot> awe_: could it be its the boot which is not working properly?
[21:34] <studio_> hi
[21:34] <taiebot> awe: and what do you mean flash vs switching channel ( do i not flash to another channel)
[21:34] <brunch875> hello!
[21:34] <lotuspsychje> hi
[21:34] <awe_> taiebot, your syslog is broken...  again, I've given you my recommendation.  We never meant for users to switch channels back and forth, while continuing to apply updates
[21:34] <awe_> I can't tell anything else with your syslog the way it is
[21:35] <awe_> if rebooting doesn't fix your syslog, flashing is the only solution I have
[21:35] <studio_> i have a question about the kernel. when i build my own one, it will be overwritten after the next update. is that normal?
[21:35] <taiebot> awe: so flashing with which option?
[21:36] <taiebot> awe: i though going from devel-proposed to devel i was flashing my device. the only stuff which never changes is the android kernel
[21:37] <awe_> taiebot, is that the only channel change you've made devel -> devel-proposed and back?
[21:37] <awe_> have you ever changed the channel to rtm -> vivid?
[21:37] <awe_> again, your running a devel release, and things seem screwed up on your device
[21:37] <awe_> this release is meant to be for development
[21:37] <dobey> studio_: yes, it's normal.
[21:38] <studio_> ok
[21:38] <awe_> if this happens to me, I re-flash
[21:38] <awe_> this is why we tell people not to run devel as their normal phone
[21:38] <brunch875> I want to flash devel but it's my normal phone :/
[21:39] <brunch875> otherwise I envy your release...210+? :P
[21:39] <dobey> brunch875: don't be fooled by the image numbers
[21:39] <brunch875> BIGGER IS BETTER
[21:40] <awe_> brunch875, I wouldn't recommend doing so.  What if you need the phone for an emergency?
[21:40] <brunch875> otherwise people wouldn't buy the new intel i7 with only two cores :P
[21:40] <awe_> it's meant for development
[21:40] <taiebot> awe: I understand  your frustration just trying to understand myself what's happening i am not a normal user anyway :). So if it s broken its likely my fault :-D
[21:40] <awe_> if you want a stable image, use RTM
[21:40] <studio_> dobey, when i am building an "experimental" kernel, for exp. with v4l, how can i "hold" it?
[21:40] <brunch875> yeah, that's why I haven't flashed it
[21:40] <dobey> according to periodic table, lower numbers are more stable
[21:40] <dobey> studio_: build your own images, or don't install newer images than what you have
[21:41] <awe_> taiebot, no problem.  I just don't know what else to tell you, and I can't really spend much more time on your mobile data issue till your base image functionality is restored
[21:41] <dobey> what i7 with only two cores?
[21:41] <brunch875> some new power-proficent things intel is releasing
[21:41] <brunch875> they're not meant for desktop computers
[21:42] <brunch875> but people are getting deceived into buying thos "MORE POWERFUL THAN i5" computers just because the number is higher
[21:42] <dobey> brunch875: oh, well mobile i7 processors have come with only 2 cores for many years
[21:42] <brunch875> it's not even the good old "faster clock is better" ;)
[21:43] <dobey> it is more powerful than the i5
[21:43] <brunch875> yeah, depends on many variables
[21:43] <brunch875> but still, I mean people only look at the number
[21:43] <brunch875> and can be easily deceived
[21:44] <brunch875> There are tons of stores exploiting this
[21:44] <dobey> *shrug* there have been mobile i7 CPUs with only 2 cores since they were first released.
[21:44] <brunch875> really? I had no idea
[21:45] <brunch875> only just seen it the other day on a shelf and laughed at the ripoff
[21:45] <dobey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors#Mobile_processors
[21:47] <dobey> dropping half the cores has always been a way for them to get better power consumption on the mobile systems. i don't see any 6 core mobile i7s though, and there have been several 6 core workstation i7s
[21:50] <dobey> anyway, time to run
[21:51] <brunch875> have fun!
[21:51] <studio_> dobey, so i do not have the choice to update "apps" only, as i have for exp on my desktop?
[21:52] <dragonkeeper> anyone here making or porting apps to UT ?
[21:52] <dobey> studio_: sure you do. set your phone to be permanently writable
[21:53] <dobey> i don't recall the exact command to do it
[21:53] <brunch875> I want to make some apps but I won't have the time until summer
[21:54] <dragonkeeper> i found http://www.pokerth.net/download.html       i think its written in qt4 and c++  and is cross platform incl android
[21:54] <studio_> dobey, so on permanent writable i get updates for ubuntu-touch and kernel will not be overwritten?
[21:55] <brunch875> I'll note that down!
[21:57] <studio_> dobey, i asked, because kernel is still 3.4.67
[21:58] <dragonkeeper> brunch875, i want to try port it but unsure how successful ill be lol
[21:59] <taiebot> awe rsalveti  FYI i just found this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rsyslog/+bug/940030 which is very old  might be related..  anyway bed time
[22:01] <dragonkeeper> id love me some toribash on UT but the guy wouldnt even support arm for rpi2 :(
[22:23] <taiebot> cd
[22:30] <studio__> dobey, i re-flashed my own kernel, also 3.4.67, and made the image writable. so tomorrow i'll only get updates for ubuntu touch, but not a new (old) kernel?
[22:33] <studio__> damn, dobey is offline :(
[22:35] <studio__> john-mcaleely, are you still there?
[22:36] <dragonkeeper> guys, how do i add a ringtone . i tried to move it to system but /dev/loop0 is write protected , i have also tried gsettings set com.ubuntu.touch.sound incoming-call-sound /file.ogg
[22:37] <mcphail> dragonkeeper: I had to make the root filesystem read/wrtie to add a ringtone but I think that is frowned upon :(
[22:38] <popey> studio__: unlikely at this hour
[22:39] <studio__> popey, ok
[22:39] <popey> wassup?
[22:39] <dragonkeeper> mcphail, i see
[22:40] <studio__> dragonkeeper, nice hint, there is missing a browser for exp. to the sd-card
[22:41] <dragonkeeper> theres alot missing ;)
[22:42] <studio__> popey, i thought john-mcaleely is still online, his nick is shown in black an not gray ...
[22:42] <popey> studio__: he may be afk
[22:42] <popey> what's up?
[22:45] <dragonkeeper> mcphail, nice it worked :)
[22:45] <mcphail> Do any of the channels come with the -dbg packages for the system libraries?
[22:45] <mcphail> dragonkeeper: yes - working well now!
[22:45] <studio__> dragonkeeper, i also "thought" today it is "easy" to use the cam on the bq E4.5 as a webcam via v4l with cvcl, but it is not :(
[22:46] <popey> yeah, unlikely
[22:46] <mcphail> dragonkeeper:I hate anything but a "ring ring" tone
[22:47] <dragonkeeper> possible ... but 'easy' ?..
[22:47] <dragonkeeper> mcphail, i like ring ring but i dont have one so i pulled the Orion.ogg from android . i dont like the stock sounds on ubuntu :(
[22:48] <studio__> there is no /dev/v4l* or /dev/video*
[22:48] <mcphail> dragonkeeper: agreed.
[22:49] <dragonkeeper> studio__, cant install libv4l-dev ?
[22:50] <studio__> dragonkeeper, isn't multi media needed by the kernel?
[22:51] <studio__> on the bq are no modules, everything is compiled in the kernel, but no v4l
[22:52] <dragonkeeper> studio__, unsure about kernel v4l specifics,
[22:52] <studio__> therefore i need help from john-mcaleely, he made the kernel
[22:54] <dragonkeeper> studio__, can you not rip config from proc, add whats needed, recompile and flash?
[22:55] <dragonkeeper> if you cant rip config from /proc, maybe that function should be added to kernel
[22:55] <studio__> i have the kernel-config, it is shown by "zcat /proc/config.gz"
[22:56] <dragonkeeper> :)
[22:56] <studio__> but as i said, no multi-media and also no dvb
[22:57] <studio__> also no logitec hid
[22:57] <RAOF> studio__: Doesn't the camera do its own OpenMAX thing?
[22:57] <studio__> it is disabled
[22:57] <dragonkeeper> kernel should support all hid ..
[22:57] <studio__> no
[22:58] <dragonkeeper> why not
[22:58] <studio__> logitec needs to be enable, i know that from my sat-receiver
[23:01] <studio__> the default kernel from my sat-receiver do not support logitec hid, but after i enabled to build a module for logitech hid i was able to use my keyboard and mouse
[23:09] <Guest74427> hi ppl i need
[23:09] <Guest74427> help
[23:10] <Guest74427> I have a table Edison2 Bq already activated the USB debug. but I can not list the device in ab.
[23:11] <dragonkeeper> hmm when i try to run the app i got built in the sdk it asks for a custom executable ? cant i deploy to device to run?
[23:11] <studio__> dragonkeeper, hid is one point, v4l the second, but what about dvb s/c/t?
[23:12] <dragonkeeper> studio__, for the webcam idea ? i doubt it
[23:16] <studio__> dragonkeeper, i think without modules it will not work, also not fake-cam (loop) ...
[23:17] <dragonkeeper> studio__, unsure, i thought it was usb and pci specific stuff,
[23:19] <studio__> dragonkeeper, "apt-cache search v4l" shows me a lot, but how to use for exp. "v4l2loopback-utils"?
[23:21] <studio__> RAOF, sorry, can you help a little bit more?
[23:22]  * dragonkeeper didnt understand the question
[23:22] <RAOF> studio__: I don't think the camera has a v4l driver; I think you'll need to fiddle with OpenMAX stuff instead.
[23:23] <studio__> RAOF, sorry, i know nothing about OpenMax, i am a user ...
[23:23] <dragonkeeper> can someone tell me why :-1: error: /var/lib/schroot/chroots/click-ubuntu-sdk-15.04-armhf/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/qt5/bin/qmake: Command not found    but the sdk is looking for it o.o
[23:23] <RAOF> studio__: I think what I'm saying is: you're not going to be able to use the phone's camera as a webcam without some hacking.
[23:24] <RAOF> studio__: You'd need to write something to pull out the video stream (using gstreamer) and send it to your host.
[23:26] <studio__> RAOF, that has nothing to do with "hacking" bq is showing how to use the E* (android-version) as a web-cam on their webpages ...
[23:27] <RAOF> studio__: Could you link that, please?
[23:27] <studio__> wait ...
[23:28] <popey> but that's with an android app, not a linux app... surely?
[23:28] <RAOF> That would be my expectation, yes.
[23:29] <studio__> http://www.mibqyyo.com/articulos/2015/02/03/transformar-movil-webcam/#/vanilla/discussion/embed/?vanilla_discussion_id=0
[23:30] <RAOF> Indeed.
[23:30] <popey> the clue is in the name
[23:30] <popey> "Droid cam"
[23:30] <RAOF> That's an Android app to slurp the video stream out of the camera plus a desktop client to read it.
[23:30] <popey> yup
[23:30] <RAOF> studio__: That is an example of the hacking you would need to do :).
[23:31] <studio__> RAOF, sorry, what means "hacking"?
[23:31] <RAOF> studio__: Programming, sorry.
[23:31] <RAOF> It would be relatively simple to write an Ubuntu Touch app to do that (although you'd need to keep it in the foreground for it to work).
[23:31] <RAOF> But I don't think there are any existing apps for it.
[23:32] <studio__> so isn't it what i said all the time, it is depending of v4l, isn't it?
[23:32] <RAOF> The *desktop* client will presumably be creating a fake v4l device, yes.
[23:32] <RAOF> The *phone* app won't be using v4l.
[23:33] <studio__> please, forget the "phone" ...
[23:33] <studio__> it is ubuntu, isn't it?
[23:33] <RAOF> On the phone? Yes.
[23:35] <studio__> i was able, for exp., to install vlc. but i was not able to get a link on my "desktop" so this is a problem from mir, isn't it?
[23:35] <RAOF> You can't use anything that uses X, correct.
[23:35] <RAOF> Because there isn't an X server (that works).
[23:36]  * dragonkeeper wonders why there isnt a working one
[23:36] <studio__> so why vlc is supported to be enable to install on ut?
[23:36] <RAOF> So basically if it's not a terminal app and it's not in the app store then it's not going to work.
[23:37] <RAOF> studio__: vlc is *not* supported to be installed on UT. In order to do so you need to mark your root filesystem as read/write, which is an unsupported configuration.
[23:37] <studio__> i am root, i am the main user of my os. so i can install vlc, or?
[23:37] <RAOF> You can install vlc.
[23:38] <popey> also, vlc isn't even in the rtm repo
[23:38] <RAOF> It won't work (at the moment)
[23:38] <popey> so you had to jump some signifcant hoops to make vlc installable
[23:38] <studio__> rtm means?
[23:38] <popey> that doesn't mean we have to make it work
[23:38] <popey> the version of ubuntu which ships on the bq phone is a derivative of utopic (14.10) we call "RTM"
[23:38] <dragonkeeper> vlc interface is qt4  so thats a start
[23:38] <popey> RTM means "release to manufacturer"
[23:39] <RAOF> dragonkeeper: Except UT uses Qt5, and there's no Qt4 support :)
[23:40] <popey> studio__: you can also install libreoffice, but that doesn't mean it will work.
[23:41] <dragonkeeper> why is package manager always got a lock, i cant install anything from term
[23:41] <studio__> sorry, i know what rtm means, that question was  "rhetorically"
[23:41] <popey> thats not useful.
[23:43] <studio__> popey, why libre office is only working via vnc?
[23:43] <popey> libreoffice requires x
[23:43] <popey> we dont ship x on the phone
[23:43] <popey> I feel like deja-vu
[23:44] <studio__> no deja-vu, i just ask about the future, phone, tablet, stb ...
[23:45] <popey> no, you didn't
[23:45] <studio__> ?
[23:45] <RAOF> Oh, in the _future_ we'll have an X server.
[23:46] <studio__> back to old school?
[23:46] <RAOF> No, it'll be an X server nested under Mir.
[23:46] <studio__> :)
[23:48] <studio__> so, i need a modified kernel to use v4l and dvb-x, right?
[23:49] <RAOF> Yes, although I doubt that the camera will have v4l drivers.
[23:50] <Ponchale> hi
[23:50] <Ponchale> people
[23:50] <Ponchale> how are you?
[23:50] <RAOF> studio__: If you want to use your phone as a webcam, you should write an app to do it. It'll take you less time and effort :)
[23:52] <studio__> RAOF, i don't know to write an app to stream the video, for exp. back cam via cvlc to http :(
[23:52] <RAOF> studio__: You probably also don't know how to write a v4l driver for the phone's camera, and that's likely to be more difficult :)
[23:54] <Ponchale> we are EasyLabs a business of software development in Colombia and want to create a version of Ubuntu for tablets and mobile devices to buy and then we install and fabricate our own devices. My question is how we can modify that code and then install it on the dispositivs
[23:56] <studio__> v4l driver for OV5648 is aviable, but what is that, front or back cam?
[23:58] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Hey, I have a bug for video playback, do I post this in browser or media-hub?