[07:51] morning folks [08:52] ali12341: do you know something about transmission and it's indicator menu? bug 1440992 [08:52] bug 1440992 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "transmisson menu wording error in Xubuntu session" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1440992 [10:09] done [10:11] ali12341: thanks [10:22] elfy: is bug 1437180 still present? no one else has confirmed it yet in the report [10:22] bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437180 [10:23] not sure but i thought bluesabre mentioned the same thing too [10:24] if someone confirms it we should add it to the bugs blueprint [10:25] it's already linked to the blueprint [10:25] but there is no progress [10:31] i'm unsure what we can do about it and why it didn't happen in the first place, i.e. when xfdesktop was added to our ubiquity session to draw the wallpaper [10:32] the most straight-forward solution would be to replace xfdesktop with feh [10:32] bluesabre: thoughts on this? ^ [10:32] ideally yes [10:33] Unit193 has tested ubiquity with xfdesktop, so he should have noticed the icons I'd guess [10:34] or maybe "it's not a bug, it's a feature" :) [10:52] xfdesktop wasn't recently added to ubiquity to draw the wallpaper, we've used it for years [10:53] the black background was due to it becoming a zombie process as I recall [10:53] and a newer xfdesktop release gave us desktop icons [10:55] I'd say its a bug, albeit minor, and I would not be opposed to switching to feh to draw the ubiquity background in 15.10, since that desktop doesn't do anything else [11:05] bluesabre: is there some config file for xfdesktop when run in live mode? or are any parameters passed? [11:05] I assume that the right click context menu works also [11:05] I'm not sure [11:06] so, switching to feh would be the best option [11:06] I just know that we changed nothing except a new xfdesktop and started seeing icons [11:24] question re feh, currently if you start install and quit - the live media boots to the livesession - that going to get affected? [11:28] bluesabre: yeah, i'd also say it's minor and prolly too late to switch to feh now [11:29] but yeah, everything else (context menus) works with xfdesktop in the live session [11:29] which means ppl can basically run any programme they want or even use multiple workspaces... [11:29] so apart from the panel, there's little diff between the install only and the live session atm [11:30] which begs the question why do it then? [11:30] and also begs the other 'why test installs from install and not try' question too :) [11:31] ochosi: btw - 2 different names for the QA incentive this time :) [11:32] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dcx6FX9I7uS5lTUPUlldQkexpGN8syNeunDVrsVnRRk/edit?pli=1#gid=498196131 [11:32] woot :) [11:34] yep, I was pleased too ;) [11:34] nice [11:34] hi bluesabre :) [11:35] elfy: the live session won't be affected, it would only be the ubiquity installer session that would use feh, live desktop would be normal [11:35] hey elfy [11:35] :) [11:36] bluesabre: you misunderstand slightly, start livemedia, accidentally hit install [11:37] quit - you get to the livesession [11:37] with feh and not xfdesktop - what happens in that scenario? [11:39] elfy: that looks great! (re: qa incentive) [11:39] we should definitely blog a roundup of this [11:39] that will hopefully further motivate people [11:39] if I recall, the installer is its own session, so when you quit that, all open apps are closed, then the desktop session is started, so feh is closed and xfdesktop is started [11:40] bluesabre: ok - thanks :) [11:40] ochosi: yea - was contemplating doing so *just* before RC/Final Release - hoping to drag a few extras in then [11:41] good idea [11:42] I have them sometimes [11:42] :)P [11:42] * bluesabre wishes he had them more often [11:42] I'd share mine bluesabre - but it's 2015 and I've only had one since 1999 [11:43] luckily my 3 kids never read this oldfashioned irc stuff :p [11:49] lol [11:57] bluesabre: you back at work or still on easter break? [11:58] easter break for me was saturday/sunday :) [11:59] oh right :) [11:59] sorry Unit193, won't be able to make it to your meeting, but feel free to leave pings for me on anything that needs uploaded [12:00] I'll be doing a greeter-settings translations release/upload today, and maybe one for x-d-s if the workaround for the greeter white-screen works [12:02] great! [12:02] thanks bluesabre [14:10] brainwash, elfy: just confirmed the xfdesktop icon bug in today's daily build and also noted that in the bugreport [14:12] brainwash: since you've been poking xfdesktop a bit lately, any clue why the icons started appearing? my best guess so far is that our default settings weren't loaded correctly or at all before [14:21] bluesabre: ok, i added an idea for a workaround: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1437180 (it's not pretty, but sorta okayish for 15.04) [14:21] Launchpad bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] [14:23] ochosi: did you look at the incentive spreadsheet for the names - if so happy for me to announce them tonight ? [14:23] if you didn't can you - or trust me lol [14:23] i did and i am! :) [14:23] you can't - QA team #info :D [14:23] wasn't aware that you wanted/needed an ack (yeah, i do trust you ;)) [14:23] well - as xpl I guess you should do one or the other :p [14:24] yeah, since i've become xpl my feelings have turned binary. i either feel one thing or the other :) [14:24] ochosi, no kidding.. :P [14:25] ha ha [14:25] well either kidding or no kidding. there's no "kidding you a little" for me [14:26] * knome slips a whoopee cushion on ochosi's bench [14:26] thanks, i've wanted one of those for ages! [14:26] haha :) [14:26] * elfy removes the tacks from the cushion [14:27] bad knome [14:27] i don't put tacks on whoopee cushions :P [14:27] there are problems with them though [14:27] the small ones give a pathetic sound [14:27] :) [14:27] yea for sure [14:27] and the large ones are impossible to hide... === boxer- is now known as Nexasoft === Nexasoft is now known as boxer [19:27] slickymaster, FYI, we have some strings landing at some point soon for the slideshow once the template from jacks changes propagates back after an upload [20:00] #startmeeting [20:00] Meeting started Tue Apr 7 20:00:18 2015 UTC. The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [20:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [20:00] #chair knome [20:00] Current chairs: Unit193 knome [20:00] Howdy everyone. [20:00] evening [20:00] welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting. Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [20:01] Anyone else around? If not, this'll be nice and short. [20:01] #topic Open action items [20:01] who knows [20:02] elfy: Did we tie up everything for xubuntu-core testing? [20:02] afaik [20:02] Great, same here. I didn't see anything else needing testing. [20:02] #done Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs [20:02] #done elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda [20:03] knome: Did you talk to ochosi about setting up a team vote? [20:04] * ochosi doesn't recall being talked to [20:04] * Unit193 gives ochosi a stern talking to. [20:04] but it couldn have happened a longer time ago so maybe i don't remember [20:04] Alright, we'll carry forward... [20:04] team vote about what? [20:05] "ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion" [20:05] That's what I see. [20:05] yeah, i know [20:05] but no topic [20:05] That's all I know. [20:05] awesome :) [20:05] another one of those carried forward ad infinitum that we've all forgotten the topic off now? [20:05] i guess i'll just "allow more time for discussion" :D [20:06] ha ha ha [20:06] #nick knome [20:06] #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion [20:06] ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion [20:06] #topic Team updates [20:06] Free for all, any updatese? [20:06] perhaps there should be a #action make the agenda make sense ... [20:07] sorry for being late guys, but it's dinner time over here and the little doesn't make any compromises [20:07] #info ochosi pushed some fixes to Greybird, but likely too minor for 15.04 [20:07] #info testing for b2 went ok, bugs about - more global than us [20:07] #info figures in for QA incentive [20:07] #info ochosi prepared a (hacky) patch for ubiquity-dm to hide the desktop icons in bug #1437180 [20:07] bug 1437180 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437180 [20:07] #info exo and thunar fixes uploaded to vivid. [20:08] ochosi: Ah good. [20:08] #info March sticker pack winner is PaulW2U [20:08] #info Final Beta sticker pack winner is saqman2060 [20:08] #action elfy to tie up with pleia2 re contacting them both [20:08] ACTION: elfy to tie up with pleia2 re contacting them both [20:09] if any of you wanna chime in about the ubiquity-dm fix, feel free to get in touch [20:09] ? [20:10] I had some #info items, but I don't know now where I placed them :P [20:10] elfy: well i dunno, if you have an opinion on it etc [20:10] oh [20:10] the icon issue? [20:10] yeah [20:11] I only really had one thing to find out - and bluesabre put my mind at rest [20:11] the question (partly) is: is the situation bad enough that we want a hacky fix pushed that we'll have to revert in 15.10 [20:11] We could move this to discussions. :P [20:11] is there a bug in xfdesktop? [20:11] I would agree they look a bit daft - but maybe better to leave well alone over the next 3 weeks [20:12] i'm here. [20:12] Unit193: agreed, let's discuss it a bit later (also re: micahg :) ) [20:12] #topic Discussion items [20:12] ochosi: Want a subtopic right now? [20:12] elfy: thanks, happy to ship off the stickers this week [20:12] Unit193: yeah, let's do that [20:13] #subtopic Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop [20:13] ochosi: Have at it. [20:13] pleia2: cool - I'll mail them as QA and cc you in as we did last time [20:13] * pleia2 thumbs up [20:13] :) [20:13] ok, so the problem is quite easily explained, we use xfdesktop to draw the wallpaper in our ubiquity install-only session [20:14] in 15.10 we'll likely switch to feh for drawing the wallpaper [20:14] just makes more sense, xfdesktop has far too many features and all we really want is a wallpaper below ubiquity [20:14] so the diff i attached on the bugreport basically switches the icons on the desktop setting off via an xfconf-query call [20:15] it's really not a pretty solution [20:15] but it'll do the trick [20:15] micahg: thoughts? ^ [20:16] if that's the best option and only affects us, I think that's fine [20:16] tbh i don't know about "best" [20:16] but the release date is closing in on us, and we might want a fix [20:16] micahg: By default, it'll affect Studio too. Myth doesn't release except for LTSes though. [20:17] yeah, that's true [20:17] Generally speaking, studio is less concerned with the desktop, and more interested in a/v. [20:17] looks relatively harmless [20:17] yeah, i tested the xfconf command in a ubiquity live session [20:18] actually there's even a second setting i would change, but i don't want to add another 6 lines for almost nothing [20:18] (disable the right-click menu on the desktop, which allows launching of any other app) [20:18] Racy? [20:19] well, possibly [20:19] you mean in case xfsettingsd hasnt started yet? [20:19] dunno whether these commands are called synchronously or async [20:20] generally speaking, calling xfsettingsd and then xfdesktop could also be considered racy [20:20] brb [20:21] Alright, well either way bluesabre isn't here, so. [20:21] let's keep an eye on timing, final freeze is next week [20:22] #action ochosi to get in touch with bluesabre about the patch for ubiquity, and xfdesktop icons. [20:22] ACTION: ochosi to get in touch with bluesabre about the patch for ubiquity, and xfdesktop icons. [20:22] Any other remarks on this topic? [20:22] not from me [20:22] the trick with patching ubiquity is if there's a problem later, it's much harder to change [20:22] Indeed. [20:22] just FYI [20:22] #subtopic GIMP in the default seed (mailing list discussion) [20:23] ooh, idr seeing that [20:23] knome: ^ [20:23] nnniiiice. [20:24] well, it's the mailing list discussion. [20:24] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010560.html [20:24] i don't think there is a conclusion [20:24] oh, was a while ago [20:25] yea - these have been dragging their heels, mostly because 15.10 [20:25] back [20:25] the gimp discussion wasn't also very long [20:25] Same discussion every time, it's overkill, but there's no good simple editors. [20:25] i think the thing that we know now (again) is that there isn't really a suitable replacement, because there really isn't [20:25] yep [20:25] Is pinta an option? [20:25] No. [20:25] so maybe the question is: does the still want to stick with GIMP? [20:26] *the team [20:26] or is it a valid option to drop it [20:26] dkessel: There were a couple reasons, but mono is the biggest one. [20:26] pinta will pull in mono [20:26] knome: what would be your main argument for dropping it? [20:26] micahg: o/\o [20:26] ok [20:26] ochosi, it's huge, it's much more than a regular user needs [20:27] what about MyPaint? [20:27] i don't think it has ever specifically contributed to the "xubuntu experience", we've been shipping it because some users and team members like it shipped [20:28] * Unit193 [20:28] Description-en: paint program for use with graphics tablets [20:29] ? [20:29] http://mypaint.info/ [20:29] micahg, that's misleading, but it's not like gimp, it's a drawing app more than an image editor [20:29] thanks Unit193 [20:29] yeah, the gimp does both [20:29] The pictures are scaring me. [20:29] micahg, and it is better with graphic tablets. [20:30] So, seems to be something we're not looking at. [20:30] so we'd have to first think what aspect of gimp we'd like to replace with *something* [20:30] yes [20:30] * knome facepalms [20:30] that discussion has come and gone [20:30] yeah :) [20:30] you can refer to the old comparison in the wiki [20:30] Yes,and ristretto still hasn't learned how to resize. :P [20:30] it probably would make sense to do one of those [20:30] the fact is that there is no suitable app that does it [20:31] it being the features we want to replace in gimp [20:31] So while it's overkill, it does what we need and can't find something else to do it. [20:31] but instead of shipping the huge gimp because there isn't an alternative, and kind of giving up, why don't we drop it? [20:32] xpaint seems to have the same "features" in th wiki [20:33] we could also switch back to shipping gthumb and drop ristretto and gimp [20:34] Too bad theres no gimp-minimal [20:34] Meh, always thought gthumb was useless. [20:34] micahg, no version update since precise [20:34] isn't it a little late in the cycle to be updating seeds? [20:34] yeah, let's not reintroduce gthumb [20:34] micahg: For wombat. [20:34] ah [20:34] I'd like to table this so we can move on to the next disucssion that's neverending. :P [20:35] ochosi, we can write a small script set that allowed the user to handle their images from thunar [20:35] ochosi, just link that to a custom action for all images. [20:35] resize, rotate, you name it [20:35] you mean via imagemagick? [20:35] yep. [20:36] those who need more complex tools can install one from the repositories [20:36] +1 [20:36] we can also try to add those features to ristretto at some point [20:36] imagemagick can even write text [20:36] so you can do a lolcat generator [20:37] ouch [20:37] what about shutter? [20:37] well i mean, wasn't that one of our prerequisites for the iamge editor... [20:37] micahg, the right place to do proposals for apps is the mailing list thread [20:38] i don't think it's a good use of everybody's time to mull over those in a meeting [20:38] We're discussing it now. :P [20:38] isn't that a screenshot tool? [20:38] yes, but it does have a nice editor in it [20:38] oh [20:38] i didn't know about that [20:38] 2 for 1 :) [20:38] we have the xfce screenshooter.. [20:39] Description does seem very screenshooter centric. [20:39] Unit193, and their website is awful without js.. [20:40] Doesn't look like it can open existing files, or can it? [20:41] yes, it can [20:42] generally speaking, i don't mind dropping one of our apps for 15.10, also in terms of getting user feedback (i know, the vocal minority and all, but better than no feedback) [20:42] set up a team vote and get on with it. [20:42] : [20:42] :) [20:43] we can do one now if you guys and gals agree that that's a good idea :) [20:43] it's sorta funky timing with 15.04 not even released, but whatever [20:44] it'll get some votes done, rest of team can vote on m/l [20:44] * slickymaster agrees with elfy [20:44] wfm [20:45] Unit193, shall you set the poll up? [20:45] #vote Drop The GIMP from the default seed [20:45] Please vote on: Drop The GIMP from the default seed [20:45] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [20:45] does +1 mean drop? [20:45] yeah [20:45] Yes. [20:45] -1 [20:45] -1 received from Unit193 [20:45] just making sure. [20:45] +1 [20:45] +1 received from knome [20:45] -1 [20:45] -1 received from micahg [20:45] +0 [20:45] +0 received from elfy [20:45] +0 [20:45] +0 received from ochosi [20:45] slickymaster [20:46] elfy, ochosi: does "+0" mean that you don't mind if it's in the seed or not? and if yes, wouldn't it mean it's better not to be on the seed since it can save space and hassle? [20:46] not trying to impact your opinion, just asking. [20:46] +0 [20:46] +0 received from slickymaster [20:46] #endvote [20:46] Voting ended on: Drop The GIMP from the default seed [20:46] Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:3 [20:46] Motion denied [20:46] slickymaster, ^ same question to you [20:46] I've no opinion on it - hence sitting on the fence [20:47] exactly what you said knome, I don't mind if it's on the seed or not. [20:47] So, ochosi to carry over to the mailing list? [20:47] allllright [20:47] slickymaster, what about the second question? [20:48] #action ochosi to follow up with the gimp discussion on the list. [20:48] ACTION: ochosi to follow up with the gimp discussion on the list. [20:48] * slickymaster lost that one [20:48] what was it again knome? [20:48] knome: it can save space, not sure it'll really save us hassle. so far i don't remember any really critical bugreport related to gimp for us [20:48] but yeah, i'm open to dropping it [20:48] moving on perhaps [20:48] slickymaster, that if you don't care, wouldn't it pragmatically be better to drop it since it would save space and potential hassle [20:48] not convinced, but ok with it [20:48] #subtopic Default office applications (mailing list discussion) [20:49] elfy: Please, yes. [20:49] oh man, and another one... [20:49] but yeah, no need to stretch the discussion... [20:49] tbh I usualy uninistall it knome [20:49] we've had the discussions haven't we? [20:49] Yeah, so LO is much bigger, but more compatible. [20:49] elfy: Not in meeting. [20:49] elfy, yes, on the mailing list [20:50] I'm putting the kettle on ... [20:50] elfy: make some for me too [20:50] Right, so it's been discussed. Anyone ready to make a motion as to voting? [20:51] but the vote would be to just drop abiword/gnumeric or replace them with LO? [20:51] ochosi: Exactly, hence why I didn't just make one. [20:52] knome: ? [20:52] ochosi, i imagine two polls. [20:52] There's also online docs which people use, so dropping is an option. [20:52] ochosi, 1) frop abiword/gnumeric or not? [20:52] *drop [20:52] ochosi, if 1) yes, 2) install LO? [20:52] yes - but vote 2 could depend on vote 1 [20:52] k, i'd be fine with two [20:52] elfy, yep. [20:52] #vote drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed [20:52] Please vote on: drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed [20:52] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [20:52] -1 [20:52] -1 received from micahg [20:52] +1 [20:52] +1 received from ochosi [20:52] +1 [20:52] +1 received from elfy [20:52] and to make sure, +1 is DROP, -1 is NO DROP [20:52] +1 [20:52] +1 received from slickymaster [20:53] blah. [20:53] knome: yeah yeah ;) [20:53] -1 [20:53] -1 received from Unit193 [20:53] ochosi, for the log readers and all. [20:53] +0 [20:53] +0 received from knome [20:53] Think that's everyone now. [20:53] yup [20:53] #endvote [20:53] Voting ended on: drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed [20:53] Votes for:3 Votes against:2 Abstentions:1 [20:53] Motion carried [20:54] Right, anyone wanting to carry that to the list? knome? [20:54] and the next one is to have calc and writer only? [20:54] nnooo [20:54] lol [20:54] knome: sure you do ;) [20:54] ochosi can do that in the same email [20:54] #vote Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed [20:54] Please vote on: Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed [20:54] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) [20:54] -1 [20:54] -1 received from Unit193 [20:54] -1 [20:54] -1 received from micahg [20:54] -1 [20:54] -1 received from knome [20:54] +1 [20:54] +1 received from elfy [20:54] +1 [20:54] +1 received from slickymaster [20:54] knome: no, that would be too confusing [20:54] ochosi, :P [20:55] ochosi, i'll do it then... but in a way, this vote makes no sense until the vote on the ML has ended [20:55] ochosi: Votre, man! [20:55] oui! [20:55] because if most people want to keep abiword/gnumeric, we aren't installing LO.. [20:55] +0 [20:55] +0 received from ochosi [20:56] #endvote [20:56] Voting ended on: Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed [20:56] Votes for:2 Votes against:3 Abstentions:1 [20:56] Motion denied [20:56]