=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi [04:42] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjeX5drV9ms [04:55] http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/04/07/may-cover-revealed-deus-ex-mankind-divided-568435.aspx [04:55] a new Deus Ex! [04:58] Renegades 0o doesn't look quite... legit [06:12] well that's unexpected. https://instagram.com/p/1L95FDv9Ks/ [06:31] morning peeps [06:32] g'morn [06:40] hey daftykins how are ya today [06:47] mmm none too shabby ta, just watching the cat getting into all kinds of morning mischief... which makes her name Mischief very apt :D [06:47] and yourself? what fun has today in store? [06:51] Working from home today. So i'm gonna take some time off to go to the store and pick up and SD for my RaspberryPi2 [06:51] ^_^ [06:51] and then do my quarterly taxes [06:52] ooh i keep forgetting about doing my tax return [06:53] * knightwise has his own company so ... [06:53] we need to do this every quarter [06:53] :( [06:53] paperwork is done so we just need to send it to our accountant [06:55] hmmm.. copying over some old data from a desktop for a friend [06:56] I forgot how much hideous noise this things make [06:56] mechanical disks? :) [06:57] yep , and fans , and beige boxes [06:57] #horrible [06:57] and .. WINDOWS [06:57] works for me (: [06:59] I know , for me too but .. I had to reinstall windows for him [06:59] I HATE doing that kind of support, especially on those desktop clunkers [06:59] as in it was just a bit of an antique? :D [06:59] 'cause desktops are ace [07:00] its indeed an atique [07:00] core 2 duo [07:00] oof [07:01] a friend wants me to help christen a new family desktop today i believe [07:01] involving carting some data over onto it off the old [07:01] i sense the new thing will be Windows 8 :( [07:02] hmm.. hate that [07:02] * knightwise has no local data on ANY of his systems [07:02] its all on the nas or in the cloud [07:04] there was a time when i took my file server down for maintenance, PSU gave up the ghost - i was without access to all my content for days :D [07:05] ouch [07:05] A lot of the data of the company is stored offsite (cloud or has a remote copy) [07:05] Same goes for our pics and our music collection [07:06] hmm that reminds me i ought to leave a spare drive at my parents with my music on so there's at least that off-site [07:06] pretty important [07:07] i've been going through my old backup cd's this week and pulling off any data I still needed to save them from diskrot [07:07] i put one co's docs into their google drive account once, as they already had google apps... but interestingly it killed windows search within that path [07:08] yep , i think onedrive IS searchable [07:09] hrmm not seen that working in person, i've linked some videos my xbox has created off it once or twice, though [07:09] someone i know with an iMac and a Windows laptop needs docs synced between both, i was thinking of just giving dropbox a bash [07:10] owncloud could've been fun, but with a dynamic home IP i think that'd be messy [07:10] Then why not go for bittorrent sync ? [07:10] i don't entirely trust the privacy on that one [07:11] haven't seen v2 though [07:11] I use it for the remote backups. [07:21] daftykins: Syncthing! [07:21] :) [07:21] o0 [07:59] mornin [07:59] hello sir [08:06] diddledan: new Deus Ex! [08:06] \o/ [08:29] Morning all [08:32] heya [08:33] morning boys and girls. [08:36] hey brobostigon [08:37] hey daftykins === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [09:03] Good morning all; happy Draw a Picture of a Bird Day! :-D [09:03] tragic story behind that one [09:04] not big-bird? [09:04] nooooooooo! [09:04] It'll be all the more tragic if I decide to participate. [09:04] hahaha [09:04] same here [09:06] msm__, are you responsible for this one? A cunning ploy to try to get me to showcase my "talent"? ;) [09:06] JamesTait: Ha ha. DO you know, I've never drawn a bird! [09:06] although there is always a first time :) [09:07] There is a rather cute (and picture worthy) robin in my gardne [09:07] not even the wonky m in the skies of pics as a kid? [09:07] zmoylan-pi: oh yes, there were those [09:07] so you have technically drawn a bird then :-) [09:07] zmoylan-pi, I even managed to make those not look like birds. ;) [09:08] JamesTait: Now I'm going to have to draw a bird! [09:08] msm__, glad to be of inspiration. :-P [09:08] Oh yes :P [09:09] * JamesTait looks around, realises his camera is nowhere to be seen. [09:09] JamesTait: Bad planning! [09:09] :) [09:10] I have images to transfer from the SD card, so I can't argue with that! [09:11] ~v~ <-- bird [09:11] m <-bird [09:42] . <--bird that is very very far away :-) [09:54] (")> [09:54] ^ [09:54] steam wafting over a cup of coffee... good idea :-) [09:56] kettle approaching boiling, choccie biccies located... [09:56] Elevensies! [09:57] exactamundo! [09:57] i just had a toasted bagel and coffee [09:57] and a smoothie [09:57] popey: sound yum ! [09:58] I'm trying out some coffee I got from TK Maxx [09:58] not too bad [09:58] I think my taste buds are shot. I can't tell the difference between one coffee and another. [09:58] or indeed instant [09:58] I can't stand the Finnish drip machine stuff anymore [10:01] popey: Bagel. I have bagels. I also have an empty tum-tum. I wonder what the solution could possibly be.....? [10:01] need butter [10:01] think of the money you save drinking instant instead of silly expensive coffee [10:01] Stop talking about food please!!!! I'm so hungry and no food here! [10:01] hah [10:01] * zmoylan-pi has cheese trianges for bagels later [10:01] Last night I had a bagel for tea, toasted, buttered, added cheese then microwaved for 20 seconds to melt it [10:02] was yum [10:02] and nuclear hot [10:02] zmoylan-pi: Instant is "emergency coffee" [10:03] popey: been trying out Ubuntu touch on my tablet recently, not much of a fan right now though, it's weird how they haven't brought over some easy to port stuff that'd make the platform so much better (eg VLC) [10:03] this is emergency coffee as no bugger will touch it till the dogs milk runs out... :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Coffee [10:05] "easy to port" [10:05] feel free to do that [10:06] what tablet out of interest? [10:06] Nexus 7 [10:06] k [10:07] popey: I would assume it supports mir already, if not you could just use xmir, I bet it has a touch/tablet theme too [10:07] ahhh assumption [10:07] no, it doesn't support mir [10:07] then xmir would work fine anyway :P [10:07] and xmir isn't on the phone yet, but is under development [10:07] not finished yet [10:07] ah [10:08] that's one of the main things I was interested in having, xmir [10:08] that'll be a killer feature when it lands imo [10:11] Oh, and congrats to Team Ubuntu for no longer being treated like a leper on the Dell site. Listed as an OS option and everything! [10:13] Still jonesing for the new xps13 [10:14] popey: that said I haven't looked super deeply into Ubuntu touch, are there any cool features I'm missing? :) [10:14] It looks like a semi-decent machine. Not sure why only 8GB for RAM for a "developer" edition. But that's small beans really. [10:14] I'm dual booting my nexus 7 so I can happily swap between Android and Ubuntu touch, I just haven't found anything I'd actually use touch for yet lol [10:15] I ordered the ubuntu phone , expect it to arrive anytime soon now. [10:16] so if i'm correct dell now has complete driver support for the xps13 [10:16] knightwise: cool, feel free to field the above question too, I'm just looking for cool things to do with it / cool apps :) [10:18] Azelphur: i'll do a review for the knightwise.com and carry it around for a couple of weeks [10:18] nice [11:10] incoming for JamesTait [11:10] _ _.-''''''--._ [11:10] .` `. ...------.\ [11:10] / |O :-` _,.,---' [11:10] ' \ ;--'' [11:10] | _.' ( [11:10] ,' _,' `-. [11:10] : / '. [11:10] \ \ ' [11:10] `.| `. [11:10] `-._ \ [11:10] '. ,-. \ [11:10] .__ _`.\..`\ \ [11:10] , ''- . _,-'.,-' ``: \ [11:10] '-...._ (( (('-.._ \ \ [11:10] `--.. `'-. \ \ [11:10] `.. ' \ \ [11:10] `\ \fsr `" [11:10] \/ [11:10] I cheated and brorrowed someone elses :) [11:11] davmor2, toucan play at that game! [11:11] bad dum tish [11:11] * popey tuts [11:13] Good morning peeps :) [11:13] popey, JamesTait: http://www.chris.com/ascii/index.php?art=animals/birds%20%28land%29 there are some really nice one here :) [11:13] Apr 8 12:12:11 INS01AMR01 postfix/smtp[24458]: connect to smtp.mailgun.org[50.56.21.178]:587: Connection timed out [11:14] What might cause connections to an SMTP server to timeout? [11:14] google forgot to renew the cert [11:14] if you are using gmail that is [11:15] As someone said, they probably forget their Google Calendar reminder :-) [11:15] great quote ! : [11:15] davmor2, smaller ones as well. ;) [11:16] JamesTait: yeah but I wanted to spam you with something you would cherish for the day :P [11:17] You're all heart, davmor2. ;) [11:17] * bashrc_ thought google had fixed that [11:18] davmor2: that list is missing the BBC Micro logo [11:20] bigcalm, is it trying to talk SSL on the STARTTLS port, perhaps? I've seen that either drop the connection immediately or time out. [11:20] bigcalm: possibly trademarked all of them are assigned sigs so I suppose they can't list trademarked stuff without permission maybe ? just a guess though [11:21] JamesTait: oh, how might I check? [11:21] JamesTait: I'm doing this via postfix config [11:22] Taken from https://rtcamp.com/tutorials/linux/ubuntu-postfix-gmail-smtp/ [11:22] bigcalm: telnet the port [11:22] I usually use tcpdump for stuff like that. [11:23] bigcalm: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/postfix.html testing it is listed lower down [11:23] If there's nothing obvious in the logs - I can't remember if Postfix logs anything sensible when it happens. [11:24] Looks like telnetting to 587 is going to timeout [11:25] I fear I will have to get in touch with the hosting company [11:25] bigcalm, you could try changing the port on the relayhost to 25 [11:25] bigcalm: check if there was an update that change the config on you [11:26] And I assume also in the sasl password config. [11:26] Postfix couldn't connect to mail servers on port 25 (timeout) so I thought I'd try an authenticated SMTP server. But that's timing out as well [11:27] bigcalm: just thinking out loud on that one, ie if you are pointing at the port you expect to work and it is pointing at another, also check you ssl/starttls certs are valid [11:27] Annoying when a hosting company restricts outgoing traffic from a server [11:28] bigcalm, yeah, smtp.mailgun.org responds on both ports 25 and 587 from here. [11:29] JamesTait: and from my own machine but not the server [11:29] davmor2: just updated ca-certificates but it didn't change the outcome [11:29] * bigcalm goes to find lunch [11:29] Thanks for the debug tips guys [11:29] No worries. :) [11:48] A little flock for you all: 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 🐦 [11:48] bigcalm: that will 10,000 credits please [11:49] (Unicode 1F426) === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:07] bah! [12:07] http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_four [12:07] that's using flash isn't it? [12:09] popey: yes it's flash [12:11] :( [12:11] popey: why? [12:11] flash sucks :) [12:13] I actually "made the jump" and uninstalled flash last week [12:13] don't worry some bank or government department will put up a page that requires it :-) [12:14] I have chrome for that, but I use Firefox (without flash) as my daily driver [12:15] looks like VLC can use these URLs for streaming BBC radio http://www.suppertime.co.uk/blogmywiki/2015/04/updated-list-of-bbc-network-radio-urls/ [12:15] need to update my radio tray urls [12:16] thanks moreati [12:19] \o/ works a treat [12:22] http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/apr/08/ship-this-bed-tv-ad-asa-bedworld is fun [12:27] If they're smart they're buying shipthebed.com right now [12:28] And it's slightly ruder compatriot [12:44] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/11520819/Google-looking-at-buying-Twitter.html [12:46] popey: Why am I reminded of the warnings before Billy Connolly stand-up shows, and people would *STILL* write in to complain? [12:46] people like to complain [12:47] people are idiots [12:47] hmm, that radio 4 link doesn't work on firefox OS [12:47] i feel less annoyed now [12:47] Everyone except me! [12:48] simple people of the land, you know, morons :-) [12:48] wish it used html audio rather than relying on flash and some android app :( [12:48] popey: R4 links works perfectly. [12:49] But I do have the "HAL" stuff installed that Flash needs and is no longer provided. [12:49] Oh, Firefox **OS**. What was that about me not being an idiot? [12:49] Heh [12:50] i didnt say the links didnt work [12:50] but yeah, on ffos [12:50] (I don't have hal btw) [12:51] Now that DRM has been baked into HTML, can't see it being too long before the drop Flash. [12:51] But the BBC have been a bit less co-operative of late with non-standard platforms [12:51] thething with drm being baked into html is it still requires a plugin [12:52] there will be sites that require flash in years to come. just because [12:52] diddledan: Aye, but the API is there. [12:52] we're removing the proprietary flash plugin and replacing it with the proprietary widevine plugin [12:52] isn't this just the flash story all over again? [12:52] And as it's just there to "OK" the content coming through, does it take anything to do with displaying the content? [12:53] it has to decrypt it [12:53] and drnm usually requires end-to-end encryption on the display chain using dvi or hdmi or displayport with hdcp [12:53] But it's just a stream, no? It doesn't care about filesystem access, user actions etc etc. [12:54] mozilla are planning on sandboxing the poo out of it, but it can still probably wiggle free [12:57] frying pan meets fire [12:58] flash is definitely on the way out [12:58] and we all have to thank steve bobs for that [12:59] we should get him a nobel peace prize or something... [12:59] too late, he died [12:59] tempting http://www.memorybits.co.uk/shop/microsd/sandisk-64gb-ultra-microsdxc-plus-sd-adapter-sdsdquan064gg4a/28252 [12:59] oh, you have to be alive for a nobel... === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [12:59] stevie started the trend, but really flash was hated long before that [13:00] popey: that's cheap [13:00] ya [13:00] get two at twice the price [13:00] that's the first rule of government spending iirc? [13:01] would go well with something like a Rpi2 or cubieboard4 [13:03] * popey purchases [13:03] * popey will be putting it in his ubuntu phone [13:04] and yay, just got a 10% off promo code, which is handy because I wanted a second card :) [13:04] lol [13:04] that's sneaky [13:05] they're reeling popey in... :-) [13:05] they always do that [13:05] I have bought from them many times [13:05] code is valid for 3 months too. [13:06] also http://www.memorybits.co.uk/shop/search/sandisk-ultra-128gb-microsdxc-uhsi-memory-card-with-sd-adapter/27444 [13:06] :) [13:06] imagine one of those in a converged phone... [13:07] my first pc had 20mb drive... [13:07] yes, imagine the huge storage capacity of an ssd from 3 years ago, combined with the transfer speed of a hdd from 10 years ago [13:07] 360KB floppies FTW [13:07] then when i added a 32mb cf card to my psion i felt invincible!! :-) [13:14] anyone got any idea why this might happen? http://paste.ubuntu.com/10759863/ bug 1441053 [13:14] bug 1441053 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Two network adapters on same LAN causes 30s drop-outs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1441053 [13:15] google dns has been acting up recently [13:15] by recently i mean the past 24 hours [13:15] i could use any other IP and the same happens [13:16] sure, just saying [13:16] but yeah, i saw that too [13:16] you have both adapters connected to the same network? [13:17] yes [13:17] why would that even work? [13:18] popey: what about pinging other devices on your lan? [13:18] its always worked [13:18] I've had this laptop 3 years and for most of those 3 years it's been sat both wired and wifi at the same time, no issue [13:19] popey: you on vivid? [13:19] i am now, yes [13:19] i'm going to blame systemd [13:19] heh [13:19] i could boot an old iso pre-systemd and test it I guess [13:19] if I could find one... [13:19] I have the same, both enabled, never any issues. Sorry couldn't help more :) [13:19] Anyone here use Ansible at all ? [13:20] o/ [13:20] the ftl communicator in sci fi...? :-) [13:20] morning bigcalm [13:20] Do you use it for ssh keys at all bigcalm ? [13:20] Ello popey [13:20] diplo: to deploy ssh keys? [13:20] diplo: um, I already have the ssh keys in place [13:21] I've seen the authorized_keys module, but what I'm thinking of doing is having one authorized keys file that I add remove from and push it as a file rather than use a specific module [13:21] Yeah so do I currently, wanting to automate removing / adding to lots of sites when someone leaves [13:21] * bigcalm passes over to intrbiz [13:21] hmm, wonder if I can even uninstall systemd [13:22] But our users come from windows machines/linux servers etc so authorized_keys module won't work totally as wanted [13:22] well you should be able to, i mean the first thing that happens when anyone mentions problems with systemd is someone comes along and shouts about how easy it is to uninstall it [13:22] diplo: I use the following: http://pastebin.com/wPCLd1JB [13:23] * bashrc_ likes systemd [13:23] diplo: if you just push one file, you need to make sure permissions are correct, and you won't play nice with other things or people [13:23] i'm still using trusty [13:23] diplo: why won't authorized_keys module work? [13:24] Well if I do it like you've done, I'm guessing the public_keys is a directory with peoples pub keys ? [13:24] diplo: yup [13:24] Because some keys will come from puttygen etc, the way I was reading that module was that it looked at peoples home dirs etc [13:25] Yeah that may work instead [13:25] diplo: when someone leaves you simply move the pubkey to revoked dir [13:25] I like that idea! [13:25] I'm very very new to ansible, just like the simplicity! [13:25] diplo: putty just has a different format, it's easy enough to reformat to the openssh format [13:25] ssh keys is always an issue, don't ask what the staff at my place are like ( they still use telnet!!!!!! ) [13:25] never used ansible. What's it for? [13:26] communication at greater-than-light-speed [13:26] Think puppet/chef but without having to run client side agents bashrc_ [13:26] bashrc_: config management / deployment, it's like puppet, but less overhead [13:26] All over ssh [13:26] oh ok [13:31] Spin up a VM to test now [13:32] bah, tidied the machine up to reinstall and removed them all! :/ [13:33] Does the "Let's Encrypt" CA actually get shipped into Firefox / Chrome etc? [13:33] Ah, they're not up and running yet [13:33] I've been waiting on them too [13:33] awilkins: IIRC their root was or is going to be cross signed [13:34] intrbiz, Guess I'll get one from StartSSL [13:34] Q: How will your root be trusted? A: Initially, with IdenTrust cross-sig. Will apply to root programs ASAP. [13:37] awilkins: yeh, if it is non-commerical [13:38] intrbiz: Do you use ansible in a big way ? [13:40] diplo: I use it to deploy stuff as much as I can, not got any large scale stuff. Used to manage around 100 machines with Puppet before [13:41] I'm having a truly hard time convincing my boss this is the way forward ( Automation not specifically ansible ) they still build everything manually [13:41] So spending a bit of time with out them knowing setting up one of our sites locally, and when he visits in the next few weeks I want to show how quickly I can deploy an exact setup ( takes them hours atm ) [13:42] Did I mention they still use telnet! [13:42] diplo: ah, argue that automated deployments leads to more standardisation, higher quality deployments, less errors and after initial period, quicker [13:42] Done that, like pounding head against a brick wall, actions speak more here [13:43] I've written more documentation in the last few years than the rest of the 17 staff have in the last 15! [13:43] diplo: I like that with Ansible I can setup servers or work on servers which have been hand built, etc, running over SSH is a big win when you can't have an agent or master server [13:43] yeah defo, that's what I liked about it the first time I heard about it, watched a few youtube vids and was sold [13:44] diplo: hehe :) deployment scripts also end up being a form of documentation [13:45] diplo: nothing stop just you using ansible to deploy stuff, people are likely to follow when things work better for you [13:45] yeah, they don't write any comments in any of their code, so hopefully me writing this and documenting it and commenting it may start to sink in the usefulness of it [13:45] yeah, exactly what I'm thinking, deploy my local test vm's etc [13:45] diplo: what kind of stuff are you deploying? [13:46] We sell our own ERP software, text based with a browser based one in the works too, so it's setting up clients servers and making changes etc [13:47] We have about 80-100 customers, about 150 servers running CentOS 4 to 6 [13:47] Web servers for the E-commerce part as well [13:47] Routers and mail servers for a lot of those customers too [13:48] We are the security nightmare! [13:49] diplo: note with centos 5 you need to install the python-json rpm [13:50] ah okay, noted thanks, only a few sites on 5, most are either 4 ( yes i know its EOL! ) and the rest on 6 [13:51] We can't move to CentOS7 yet as the software wasn't written to support 64bit ( our own compiled software ) [13:52] Doesn't CentOS 7 have multiarch? [13:54] maybe, this software was written 15+years ago, fixes to make it work here and there [13:54] I think it specifically looks for x86 in uname, it's fixable to run, just going to take time [14:00] ok , picking up a micro sd card later on for my raspberry pi [14:01] I was thinking of hooking it up to a monitor and running mate on it but i don't realy see the point [14:02] because you can... :-) [14:02] diplo: not based on Progress per chance? [14:03] + [14:03] Oops [14:09] Nope, Simple - simple by name and nature [14:10] It was another companies software, we bought them out about 10 years ago and now own the license, albeit we are pretty much the only ones who use it now [14:10] Another 5 years maybe and it'll be out of our hair :/ [14:10] diplo: ah ok [14:11] Most of our staff are in their late 40's early 50's, been writing in it for 15-20 years [14:12] Started off in proper machinee code :) [14:12] sure [14:12] Heh [14:12] GOTO 10 :P [14:12] sounds like you'll be hiring them past retirement to keep it running [14:12] I worked for a company that had to buy the Rich Text Format widget they were using because all their reporting depended on it and the company that sold it went to the wall [14:13] That's why me and my friend were employed, we worked for a company that used the ERP, but we were so big that we coded stuff ourselves for it, we had the source code [14:13] They basically can't employ anyone with our skills, I won't touch it though :) [14:13] Sounds like us awilkins [14:14] We had escrow agreements with all our customers to be able to deliver the source if WE went bust [14:14] But it is so huge it's taken years to move stuff away from it, we're basically abstracting it now to our own software in c++ and eventually will be able to use any front end to interact [14:15] The company I used to work for had the same awilkins, we were too locked in with them to not be [14:15] This was all VB3 of course :-) [14:15] :( [14:16] It won't even run on 64-bit windows because it has no 64-32-16 bit thunking layer [14:16] Our web front end is currently php, but we've also written a c# client and android app [14:16] TBH you learn a lot from using cheesy languages like VB3 [14:16] When you can write good code in VB, you've gained something in terms of discipline [14:16] vb is not a bad language. it's tainted by basic and all the bad variants of those [14:17] but the current versions are no longer basic [14:17] Indeed [14:17] I refuse to learn VB.NET on the grounds that it will erase my VB6 EEPROM [14:17] come on... vb makes basic look like the best language ever [14:17] And VB6 will be one of the COBOLs of the future [14:17] and they let you paint yourself into a corner unlike languages of the time like pascal that made you do things the 'right way' [14:17] yeah I guess, same can be said for simple, we've written key generators and stuff like that in it now that was supposed to not be able to be done [14:18] on error continue all the things! [14:18] ooh vm is nearly done! [14:18] Ugh [14:18] I know of at least one "professional" coder who puts "On Error Resume Next" at the top of everything [14:18] yes I think that was it [14:18] It's actually possible to do proper structured error handling in VB, I have some nice libs for it [14:18] awilkins: you really need to stop doing that [14:18] I have a VB6 dev kit on a VM in my archives [14:18]