[04:49] <Kenb> Anybody out there?
[04:49] <holstein> yes
[13:15] <dust> what is the button or key which brings the keyboard into handicapped mode?
[13:16] <dust> for example all keys are upper case... no its not the shift or the above shift key and also the led dosnt glow which shows the alternate works
[13:17] <dust> when i clicked in chat client at a channel it didnt select it but deleted it
[13:17] <dust> now after reboot it works as normal again
[13:18] <dust> its at lubuntu 14.10
[20:20] <ianorlin> dust: Are you still having keyboard troubles?
[20:21] <dust> the reboot fixed it
[20:21] <dust> but wasnt the 1st time that it happened
[20:22] <dust> and wont be the last time i think
[20:24] <ianorlin> argh the problem would be hard to use anything in the command line to fix anything with everything all caps
[20:25] <ianorlin> unless you knew how to fix it and did something clever with an alias
[20:26] <dust> i was in a game at full screen... and suddenly it happened... i dont remember after which keys and how long i did press em
[20:27] <dust> but at least its not as bad as: http://www.networkworld.com/article/2906983/security0/massachusetts-police-department-pays-500-cryptolocker-ransom.html
[20:33] <ianorlin> dust might be wise to save anything you are working on before playing that game
[20:34] <dust> imho its not the game but a key combination... sometimes it happens
[20:34] <ianorlin> dust have you tried pressing control alt f1 and switching to tty when this happens and is it all caps in the tty
[20:35] <dust> didnt try
[20:35] <ianorlin> could be X thinks all things are all caps and then running sudo service lightdm restart might make you  be able to get back to normal operation without restarting
[20:35] <ianorlin> but you will be logged out of you x session
[20:35] <wxl> which game is this?
[20:35] <dust> but i had the upper case here in chat programm too... thats the reason i rebooted
[20:36] <dust> this game https://springrts.com/
[20:36] <dust> is also in the repo
[20:39] <wxl> seems like it's all in C unless you're using optional AIs
[20:39] <wxl> and it seems like it does a good job of providing lots of linux help
[20:39] <wxl> i'd be surprised if this didn't work well
[20:39] <wxl> and also if it didn't, if it couldn't be fixed easily
[20:39] <wxl> dust: you're using the upstream version/
[20:40] <wxl> man i like their wiki layout
[20:40] <dust> i use the version which gets downloaded from the lobby
[20:40] <wxl> dust: you tried in #taspring already?
[20:40] <dust> and as lobby i use this http://www.playdeb.net/game/SpringLobby
[20:41] <dust> nope didnt... but asked in the internal dev channel and they had no idea why it happens
[20:42] <dust> and yes the game runs good at linux... also with the open source amd drivers from 14.10
[20:43] <wxl> they should be able to solve it
[20:43] <wxl> for that matter they should be able to replicate it with your same version
[20:45] <dust> the problem is i dont know at which keys it happened... im busy in game and pressing various keys at various length and suddenly it happened... its seldom so nothing which happens usually... i always try a lot of keys after and once i got it back working... not remembering which key it was...
[20:45] <wxl> that's why you need to do some more testing before seeking help
[20:46] <wxl> "i don't know how it happens" is a problem no one can fix
[20:46] <dust> the problem with f11 key and full screen while its ingame also a menu key i solved with super f11... after trying out some stuff
[20:47] <dust> wxl if i would know which key to get into the situation or out of it i wouldnt ask here :)
[20:47] <holstein> i'll use live iso's, and run the live iso's on other hardware to help reduce variables with the specific hardware..
[20:47] <dust> i would just look into the key config and change that key for example or to avoid it or so
[20:48] <wxl> dust: i have no intention of downloading a whole game engine just to see if i can figure something out that you already have the tools to do so
[20:48] <wxl> dust: also holstein gives sage advice
[20:48] <wxl> of course if you can't replicate it, it's hard to test
[20:48] <holstein> its just an easy way to see whats happening on other hardware, when collecting information and troubleshooting.. relatively easy, at least
[20:48] <wxl> and if it's hard to test, it's hard to solve
[20:49] <wxl> and if it's hard to solve, we're not going to be of much assistance
[20:49] <wxl> so back to you, dust: figure out how to replicate it
[20:50] <dust> wxl, is there something like a handicapped setting in lxde/lubuntu? to me it seems as such
[20:51] <wxl> dust: just comment out the whole openbox configuration :)
[20:53] <dust> with handicapped setting i mean something like for ppl with only 1 hand that they set a key modifier and that holds they key while they operate with the mouse
[20:53] <holstein> for disabled users?
[20:53] <dust> yes
[20:54] <holstein> if you implement something like that, it can have an effect
[20:54] <holstein> or, if your hardware implements something like that, in the bios, or system, before the OS
[20:54] <dust> i didnt but a lot of os and desktops have such
[20:56] <dust> thats the reason i ask here as i didnt find soemthing if and where lubuntu / lxde has such
[20:56] <holstein> dust: so, you are running a game? thats not in the repos? does this happen any other time?
[20:57] <holstein> have you tried running the game on a live iso with another UI?
[20:57] <dust> the game is in the repo
[20:57] <holstein> sure, but, you are not using that version, correct?
[20:57] <dust> and i press keys in that way only at that game
[20:57] <holstein> have you tried/can you replicate that issue in the repo version?
[20:58] <dust> it also happens not all the time but sometimes
[20:58] <dust> it is the repo version
[20:58] <holstein> 16:40 < dust> i use the version which gets downloaded from the lobby
[20:59] <holstein> thats why im asking.. regardless, if it were me, i would just be trying as many versions as possible.. and on different iso's and live systems, to track down what is causing what to happen
[21:00] <holstein> you can also ask in #ubuntu since its not a lubuntu or lxde package, and you may find someone else using the software..
[21:05] <dust> i did install the spring version from repo but the lobby is also able to download other game versions
[21:06] <dust> and the actual version now is there since half a year so i think its the same version as in the official repo
[21:31] <wxl> holstein: he doesn't even know how to replicate it, so…
[21:44] <qpqpqp> hello
[21:44] <wxl> word
[21:44] <qpqpqp> a friend of mine have a problem with his lubuntu i installed on his system
[21:45] <qpqpqp> the build in updater hangs in an endless mode
[21:45] <wxl> define build in updater and what version
[21:46] <qpqpqp> it always report the same amount of updates available. It also reports the same amount of updates after an "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && reboot"
[21:46] <wxl> what version?
[21:47] <qpqpqp> and that simply cant be. how can i help him to fix this problem? Its ubuntu 14.10 final
[21:47] <qpqpqp> i mean lubuntu 14.10
[21:47] <wxl> so what happens with apt-get update && apt-get upgrade??
[21:47] <qpqpqp> wxl: everything works perfectly with apt-get
[21:47] <wxl> so the issue is with lubuntu software center or hwat?
[21:48] <qpqpqp> the updating tool seems to hang somewhere
[21:48] <qpqpqp> i dont know what software reports automaticly on default installation that there are updates. but that is the software i am talking about
[21:49] <wxl> so you mean the update tool just stays open forever/
[21:50] <qpqpqp> wxl: the update tool repots the same file-size of available updates just atfer having them already updated before some minutes with apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
[21:50] <qpqpqp> and this since 2 weeks or more
[21:50] <wxl> i'm having a little trouble following you
[21:50] <wxl> so the update tool finishes without problem?
[21:50] <qpqpqp> okay. i explain again
[21:53] <qpqpqp> default installation of lubuntu 14.10. Used normally and it automaticly repots the updates from time to time and have worked for a while. Before maybe 2 weeks it have report an error the user does not understand and called me. i told him how to use the terminal and he made "apt-get update && apt-get update && reboot". The system got updated fine without any errors.
[21:53] <wxl> what error?
[21:55] <qpqpqp> After that he run again "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" and nothing got updated. so the system was updated. and now the strange thing: The updater still reports every day the same amount of downloadable updates every time.
[21:55] <wxl> so the updater thinks there are updates to be had?
[21:56] <qpqpqp> also after an "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" it reports the same amount of updates available. the whole time.
[21:56] <qpqpqp> wxl: yes
[21:56] <wxl> let's verify this again:
[21:56] <wxl> update-manger: some updates
[21:56] <wxl> apt-get: no updates
[21:56] <wxl> right?
[21:56] <qpqpqp> right
[21:57] <wxl> which updates?
[21:58] <qpqpqp> he cant explain because of low understanding about all of that and i was not at his home since the updates came. i just told him over the telephone to update with command line and that works
[21:59] <qpqpqp> i would like to know how to help him when i am next time at his home. with such a problem. i never had something like that.
[21:59] <wxl> it's possible that the software updater is looking for proposed updates
[22:00] <wxl> see if apt-get dist-upgrade fixes things
[22:01] <wxl> beyond that we'd want to look at how you have software sources set up
[22:01] <wxl> also, i should be clear, this is not a freeze or a hang
[22:01] <qpqpqp> wxl: Does dist-upgrade updates also to an new release when it gets out? for example in this case when 15.04 came out, would an dist-upgrade update an 14.10 to 15.04?
[22:01] <wxl> dist-upgrade is not for changing mielstone versions
[22:02] <qpqpqp> so its not "distribution-upgrade"?
[22:02] <wxl> nope, cli milestone upgrades are handled by do-release-upgrade
[22:03] <qpqpqp> i have read somewhere in the net that someone had a problem because of failing updates on his system because his boot partition got full
[22:04] <qpqpqp> he told lubuntu would keep too many old kernels
[22:04] <qpqpqp> if this is the case, how can that get fixed?
[22:04] <qpqpqp> so that it does not come again
[22:04] <qpqpqp> can i setup somewhere how many old kernels should be kept?
[22:05] <wxl> that's a problem with installing updates
[22:05] <wxl> totally different thing
[22:05] <wxl> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/RemoveOldKernels
[22:05] <wxl> note: BE CAREFUL WITH THAT
[22:06] <qpqpqp> how many old kernels does lubuntu save before starting to remove the oldest ones?
[22:07] <wxl> ubuntu saves them all afaik
[22:07] <qpqpqp> when using just the update-manager
[22:07] <qpqpqp> wxl: ?? but at some point the boot partition would get full
[22:07] <wxl> yep
[22:08] <qpqpqp> an normal user does not know what a boot partition is
[22:08] <Kamilion> yep.
[22:09] <Kamilion> That's why the standard installer won't create a boot partition.
[22:09] <qpqpqp> I read always that lubuntu should be user friendly
[22:09] <Kamilion> one ext4 partition is all you need for modern systems.
[22:09] <Kamilion> So if you decided to create a boot partition, you get to keep both peices if it breaks. :)
[22:09] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: ah, so there is no boot partition on a default installation?
[22:10] <Kamilion> Nope, just a single ext4 volume is the normal default.
[22:10] <Kamilion> if the user chose LVM, it might create a boot partition, I'm not sure offhand, I don't use or trust LVM2
[22:10] <qpqpqp> also no swap partition?
[22:10] <qpqpqp> yes, the user have LVM chosen
[22:11] <Kamilion> then there ya go.
[22:11] <Kamilion> LVM's never been user friendly (for me) nor paticularly stable (for me).
[22:12] <qpqpqp> but its not listed as unstable
[22:12] <Kamilion> Neither is using an EISA network card; but apparently it broke last year and only one person complained.
[22:13] <qpqpqp> so an lvm based installation ALWAYS break after some time because of keeping every kernel and because there exists an tiny boot partition
[22:13] <Kamilion> no, not always.
[22:13] <Kamilion> only if the user's totally anal about updating every time they're prompted.
[22:13] <Kamilion> and various other tasks try to run 'apt-get autoremove' on occasion
[22:13] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: yes, he always updates when he gets an report about updates available
[22:14] <Kamilion> which does tend to purge down to two or three kernels (depends if you've reboot after updating or not)
[22:15] <Kamilion> if you're on .20 and .23 is released and installed and .24 is released and installed, and .25 is released and installed, it will pick .23 to remove, but not .20 (if it's still running)
[22:16] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: Does autoremove been run automaticly every time when update-manager made an update?
[22:16] <Kamilion> in some cases, yes.
[22:16] <Kamilion> it seems it does on my 14.04 and 14.10 systems in some cases
[22:17] <Kamilion> but i also have the unattended-upgrades package installed
[22:17] <qpqpqp> can it be set somewhere how many kernel versions autoremove should keep?
[22:17] <Kamilion> it will keep "the last two, plus the running kernel"
[22:17] <Kamilion> I do not know where it's source of configuration is.
[22:17] <qpqpqp> by default. ok. and how can i set it to keep for example the last one plus the running kernel?
[22:17] <Kamilion> write a script?
[22:18] <Kamilion> I dunno, I'm more of a server admin these days than a desktop tweaker
[22:18] <Kamilion> i'm also just a user. Just like you.
[22:19] <Kamilion> I'm not part of canonical or the lubuntu project (at least, not yet)
[22:19] <qpqpqp> and what does "some time" mean? can that mean it does not remove 10 old kernels, then it removes every time there are 4 old kernels, then it again dont remove 12 kernels, and so on?
[22:20] <Kamilion> i don't know what triggers the behavior. I've only observed it.
[22:21] <Kamilion> looks like it may be part of the unattended-upgrades settings
[22:24] <qpqpqp> i have tested the nightly of 15.04. there are two bugs. when it say that i can remove now the installation media and press enter, pressing enter does not do anything
[22:24] <qpqpqp> the secong thing is an X-error i have to click away at every boot. it starts after that LXDE
[22:27] <qpqpqp> are those errors known?
[22:31] <wxl> qpqpqp: yes, but you can confirm that yourself by searching for them on launchpad
[22:31] <wxl> well the former is
[22:32] <qpqpqp> wxl: did you know an solution for this "boot partition when using LVM & killing systems with boot partition by not removing the old kernels"?
[22:32] <wxl> qpqpqp: huh?
[22:33] <qpqpqp> wxl: does lubuntu remove the old kernels?
[22:33] <qpqpqp> or does it keep them for ever?
[22:33] <wxl> qpqpqp: there is a rare linux that does
[22:34] <qpqpqp> wxl: what did you mean with rare linux that does?
[22:35] <wxl> qpqpqp: this is not necessarily "lubuntu" behavior. it's fairly common in the linux world.
[22:35] <wxl> qpqpqp: here's some more info for you https://askubuntu.com/questions/563483/why-doesnt-apt-get-autoremove-remove-my-old-kernels
[22:41] <qpqpqp> wxl: when /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal is been edit, how can /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels be automaticly generated again? Does that really happen at for example the next reboot?
[22:42] <wxl> qpqpqp: if you read the whole thing it will save up to 3 if you make sure to autoremove. not sure about the behavior if you don't.
[22:43] <qpqpqp> wxl: does the update-manager run autoremove automaticly?
[22:43] <wxl> qpqpqp: it can, but not necessarily
[22:44] <qpqpqp> wxl: but when the /boot partition get full, that breaks the updater
[22:45] <wxl> qpqpqp: you're worrying about a non-problem
[22:45] <qpqpqp> i think thats critical when its not been done automaticly at every update
[22:45] <qpqpqp> why non-problem?
[22:45] <wxl> qpqpqp: have you filled up boot?
[22:47] <qpqpqp> i have the hard feeling that is the reason of the broken update-manager
[22:47] <wxl> you're describing two unrelated issues
[22:48] <qpqpqp> does the size of the /boot partition always have the same size (for example 100mb /boot, everything else of the HDD normal / partition) or is the size of /boot partition been made based on the size of the drive?
[22:49] <wxl> they're two unrelated issues
[22:49] <wxl> i have never filled up my /boot after years of using ubuntu
[22:49] <wxl> so this is really a non-problem
[22:49] <qpqpqp> wxl: how big is your boot partition?
[22:52] <Kamilion> when I partition my own systems, I normally make a 256MB /boot If I'm using something like a raid array or something that grub can't look inside of directly.
[22:52] <Kamilion> looking through the installer's config at the moment to find it's default for LVM
[22:53] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: yes, that would be perfect to know whats the default and if there is a hard default or the installer just make a big /boot for big drives and small /boot for small droves
[22:55] <Kamilion> as far as I know, the lvm partition map uses a static size for /boot
[22:57] <qpqpqp> in some seconds we will know that for shure. thanks for looking that up
[23:03] <Kamilion> makes a 256MB partition.
[23:03] <Kamilion> enough for about 8 kernel+initrds
[23:03] <Kamilion> (at the initrd sizes I get)
[23:03] <Unit193> ~30M per initrd is average.
[23:04] <Unit193> Just don't use grml-rescueboot. :P
[23:04] <Kamilion> yeah, that was my estimate
[23:04] <Kamilion> 256/30=8.5
[23:05] <Unit193> 4.0M Apr  9 17:59 /boot/initrd.img-3.19.3-u193 :D
[23:06] <Kamilion> nice, you must not need much during boot.
[23:08] <qpqpqp> i have seen 100MB boot partition with an 14.10 installation. It should be always 256MB, right?
[23:09] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: can you show me a link to the place where i can read that it should be always 256mb?
[23:09] <genii> It should be large enough to hold how many previous kernels you want to hold onto
[23:09] <Kamilion> qpqpqp: depends on which installer option you've chosen. 14.10 AMD64 Desktop ISO?
[23:10] <qpqpqp> yes, 14.10 64bit desktop iso
[23:10] <Kamilion> I just ran through a virtual machine install
[23:10] <Kamilion> on virtualbox
[23:10] <Kamilion> it made a 256MB /boot when I selected "use LVM"
[23:11] <qpqpqp> how big was the HDD you made in virtualbox?
[23:12] <Kamilion> 8GB, the default.
[23:12] <Kamilion> so it's not scaling by device size.
[23:13] <wxl> considering 8192 % 256 = 0, it may be
[23:13] <Kamilion> well, i can try again with a sparse 250GB image
[23:13] <wxl> but only if a 16 gig gives you 512 :)
[23:13] <wxl> or if you're really interested, just go hunt through the ubiquity code and figure it out :/
[23:14] <wxl> i believe it's not worth my time to fix when it's not broken :)
[23:15] <Kamilion> mhm
[23:15] <Kamilion> i'll find the exact file it's defined in in a few minutes
[23:15] <Kamilion> vbox is busy right now
[23:16] <Kamilion> also, unattended-upgrades will try to remove kernels
[23:21] <qpqpqp> wxl: in the recent 15.04 nightly i have to change to command line and run "swapoff" by hand after knowing that the username is "lubuntu" and password is NONE. I dont think that that is a bug and not the normal way
[23:21] <Kamilion> argh, so that's what changed
[23:22] <wxl> you think?!
[23:22]  * Kamilion tries the username 'lubuntu' instead of 'ubuntu'
[23:22] <wxl> oh
[23:22] <wxl> derp
[23:22] <wxl> that's old hat :)
[23:22] <Kamilion> uh, last I knew the livecd user was 'ubuntu'.
[23:23] <Unit193> lubuntu for Lubuntu isos.
[23:23] <qpqpqp> wxl: that is the normal-user way of the installation of lubuntu with lvm and cryptsetup?! really?
[23:23] <Unit193> $flavor for $flavor
[23:23] <Kamilion> how odd...
[23:23] <Kamilion> i could have sworn it was 'ubuntu' password 'ubuntu' for 14.04
[23:23] <Kamilion> I must be crazy, lol
[23:24] <Kamilion> or ubuntu-builder is broken/crazy
[23:26] <wxl> qpqpqp: would you like to learn more about testing and how to report bugs?
[23:26] <qpqpqp> wxl: the installation of 15.04 nightly is broken with lvm and cryptsetup.
[23:26] <qpqpqp> it does not boot
[23:29] <wxl> Kamilion: 256 is not speecified anywhere in ubiquity fwiw
[23:29] <qpqpqp> also the buttons in the installation for configuring the installation are missing. For example i just know where to press to set the functionality to on/off. When pressing on an empty space, the circle come (its choosen now).
[23:29] <Kamilion> the outlines are missing, yes.
[23:29] <wxl> qpqpqp: i can tell you where to report this and how you can help with testing
[23:29] <Kamilion> bugged the hell out of me too.
[23:29] <qpqpqp> outlines is the world for that. thanks Kamilion
[23:30] <qpqpqp> wxl: can i just tell you here where the bugs are?
[23:30] <wxl> qpqpqp: i wish i had time to be your secretary
[23:32] <qpqpqp> wxl: my? i report bugs on "our" software. not on "my" software. So i also make "your" software you use a better ;)
[23:33] <wxl> qpqpqp: if you choose not to actually report the bugs in a way that will lead to some sort of solution, chances are no one will hear you screaming :)
[23:34] <Kamilion> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cnr.png
[23:34] <qpqpqp> you hear me and you are a dev. just tell if you dont like to know about them. then i would not describe them to you
[23:35] <wxl> qpqpqp: i do not have time to write down your issues for you. if you have time to complain about them here, you have time to file bug reports.
[23:35] <Kamilion> Status: closed. Reason: Could not reproduce.
[23:35] <wxl> thanks for repeating the punchline Kamilion :)
[23:36] <Kamilion> Some people are too lazy to click.
[23:36] <Kamilion> Besides, there's no easy way to reference an individual xkcd comic pane.
[23:36] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: thats why i would like to report here on an active talk. If the dev cant reproduce that, i can test on other computer and find an other way to reproduce the error and so on.
[23:39] <Kamilion> Wish I were a developer.
[23:39] <Kamilion> sadly, I'm just a lil' ol lazy scripter
[23:39] <qpqpqp> then when i report the bug and a known dev answers directly to the bug that he also have it on his system, that would be fully clear
[23:39] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: i mean wxl
[23:39] <wxl> don't have to be a developer to write bug reports
[23:39] <wxl> qpqpqp: if you want me to get involved with it, you can always write the bug report and subscribe me to it
[23:40] <wxl> (although there's better ways of dealing with it that involves the whole team rather than one person)
[23:40] <wxl> (which makes a lot more sense)
[23:41] <qpqpqp> wxl: after reported some bugs that was every time fully blocking everything here on two systems and those bugs just get closed because of http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cnr.png , i like to create the bug together with the dev itself
[23:41] <wxl> qpqpqp: why did they get closed?
[23:41] <wxl> because of a pregnancy test failing?
[23:42] <qpqpqp> no answer, just closed with "cant reproduce". Should i make an youtube video to prove that the bug was there? :(
[23:43] <Kamilion> i asked that same question earlier yesterday! :D
[23:43] <wxl> show me the bug that got closed
[23:43] <Kamilion> re: "should I just make a video?"
[23:43] <qpqpqp> Kamilion: :)
[23:45] <qpqpqp> wxl: i stopped using that software. it was not lubuntu.
[23:45] <wxl> qpqpqp: doesn't sound relevant then
[23:45] <qpqpqp> that was just a short story why i want to work on the bugs together with the devs and dont report them alone any more
[23:46] <Kamilion> i still havn't reported the VM GUI bug yet, because I'm still trying to figure out what circumstances it's reproducable under.
[23:48] <wxl> qpqpqp: you're doing what's called local optimization. making something work for you, despite the process that exists
[23:48] <wxl> qpqpqp: you're also taking some other situation and trying to necessarily apply it to this situation
[23:49] <qpqpqp> wxl: but again about the installation with LVM and cryptsetup. I dont think that changing to an ttyX and turning off swap by hand is what you mean how the installation should look like, right?
[23:49] <Kamilion> anyway, I don't think anybody's getting paid to work on lubuntu. AFAIK it's not a canonical-sponsored project, even though they kindly provide launchpad space for it
[23:49] <Kamilion> I havn't paid much attention to that stuff in a while
[23:50] <wxl> qpqpqp: sounds like it should be reported on the iso tracker
[23:50] <Kamilion> So for the most part; we're all volunteers, subject to real-world jobs outside of our <3 for lubuntu
[23:52] <qpqpqp> wxl: as i remember its also like that on stable 14.10.
[23:52] <qpqpqp> its nice to know that a dev now know about that :)
[23:52] <wxl> right, Kamilion
[23:52] <wxl> like i'm at my regular paying job now
[23:53] <qpqpqp> thanks so far. hopefully we get an stable 15.04. Is the release date the same as on ubuntu?
[23:53] <wxl> so if you want something to happen, i'd suggest doing something better than just complaining here, qpqpqp
[23:54] <qpqpqp> thanks so far. bye
[23:55]  * Kamilion geoips that
[23:55] <Kamilion> No wonder. German fellow.
[23:56] <Kamilion> Cultural differences. *nods sagely*