=== luke is now known as Guest20327
=== zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi
mappshi guys05:28
AzelphurHmm, playing with pulseaudio over the network. I've got it running but it stutters like hell. My first thought was network throughput issues but the server is on ethernet, and the client is around a meter away from the router, I can shove 7MB/sec through the connection and pulse seems to only want ~300KB/sec, any ideas?05:30
AzelphurFeels like it needs a buffer or something05:30
mappspulseaudio? you streaming audio?05:34
Azelphurmapps, yup, I got it working reasonably well now, still a tiny bit of stuttering but it only seems to be firefox that stutters05:48
AzelphurI'm calling it a win. :)05:48
Azelphurmapps, out on holiday so I got my two laptops, one of which runs my IM stuff while I am working on my main, pulse streaming from the IM laptop to the main one and synergy too, \o/05:49
mappswhat are you streaming/what do you use to stream and what you use to listen05:50
mappsi thought pulseaudio was just to do with normal sound not streaming..sure id heard of it before05:51
Azelphurpulseaudio is the answer to all those questions05:51
mappsso you can stream say mp3 using it?05:51
Azelphurmapps, any app that makes sound on my little laptop comes out of my big laptop05:51
Azelphuropen VLC and play a MP3, the audio will come out of the other laptop05:52
mappsahh ok05:52
mappsi get it05:52
AzelphurI'll video demo actually because it's cool, one sec05:52
mappswhy doi you want it like this really?05:52
Azelphurso I can hear when I get messages on my little laptop?05:52
mappsso its not just for streaming music..am i right that pulseaudio is to di with audio on local machine too05:52
mappsIM being like Jabber/ICQ/ whatever people use now i guess.:P05:53
AzelphurIRC is IM :)05:56
Azelphurgah, slow US internet connection, feel like I'm in a third world country :P05:58
Azelphurgonna take 10 minutes to upload a 20 second video05:59
mappswhere are you?06:06
AzelphurJust south of LA06:06
mappscool..how long far06:07
Azelphuruntil may06:07
mappswith work?06:09
Azelphuryea, here for work06:09
mappscouldnt you have done the work remotely in theory? or just not possible at all06:10
Azelphurmapps, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6Ply8QS8M there we go06:12
Azelphurmapps, it is, but I come out every now and again just to hang and this time we have a bit of a deal to seal06:12
mappsgoing to any cool places whilst there06:14
knightwisemorning peeps06:20
Azelphurmapps, maybe universal or something, nothing planned06:37
MooDoomorning all07:18
DJonesCan anybody recommend a HP colour printer/scanner/fax etc that prints up to A307:19
* knightwise hates printers07:21
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
directhex_DJones: that's not a big selection07:38
directhex_DJones: HP multi-function printers that can do A3 and are sold in the UK: OfficeJet 7500, .07:40
DJonesYeah, that was about the only one I could find07:43
DJonesI think problem solved anyway, just getting a cheap a4 printer to last 3 months until we can change computer systems to one that will actually allow us to select which paper tray we want to print from on the main printer07:44
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)08:12
davmor2Morning all08:21
MooDoohowdy howdy howdy08:21
bigcalmpopey: how's GTA V?08:34
MooDoobigcalm: my mate is chomping at the bit, he gets his copy delivered today and he's at work.08:38
bigcalmMooDoo: given a good internet connection, eager beavers like us downloaded via Steam on the 7th08:39
MooDoobigcalm: yeah bit big isn't it?08:43
bigcalmHappy GTA V day, JamesTait08:46
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Equal Pay Day! :-D08:46
JamesTaitbigcalm, o/08:47
davmor2JamesTait: no really not happening unless we all get the same money as the boss ;)09:10
foobarryand animals too?09:12
foobarrydo they get fair pay?09:12
zmoylan-pior is it because women usually are paid less equal pay day?09:13
directhex_the latter09:15
JamesTaitzmoylan-pi, yes, to do with the gender gap, and promoting equal pay for equal work.09:16
MooDoobigcalm: don't forget the 5gb day 1 patch for gta V wow09:19
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.09:22
directhex_MooDoo: only 5gb? small by modern standards09:23
directhex_MooDoo: also, gta5 doesn't work if your windows username is not strictly alphanumeric, e.g. has accents in it or punctuation :p09:23
awilkinshttps://twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/587840969598373888 <<?!"?09:27
directhex_awilkins: modern gaming09:28
MooDoowill get xbox one version i think lol09:30
awilkinsIf you use that feature, it should post a screenshot on your twitter feed with a comment that says "Look at me! I'm a TOTAL LAMER!"09:31
zmoylan-pia complete leroy jenkins09:43
foobarryawilkins: isn't that just the same as the rich kids at school buying a complete pack of all the stickers in teh sticker album?09:48
foobarryi but yeah DLC sucks, and EA are the epitomy of it09:49
awilkinsIn that it's infuriating and it spoils the achievements of those with skill? Yes....09:50
Myrttikek, BBC Cambridgeshire retweeted my tweet and then undid it X-D09:58
popeybigcalm: good fun :)10:07
popeybigcalm: didn't get to play it until ~40 mins past midnight as it had to decrypt/unpack 60GB on spinning rust10:08
bigcalmpopey: that's what I'll have to wait for when I get home about 8pm tonight as well then10:08
bigcalmpopey: Did you get to choose your name in the game?10:09
bigcalmAh, doh10:17
bigcalmNames aren't needed until playing online10:17
bigcalmI'm just used to Hat Films / YogsCast playing online10:18
zmoylan-pigo for a name that is the epitome of british driving... noddy :-D10:19
bigcalmI wanna go home!10:19
popeybigcalm: my GPU is unable to run it at a decent res or framerate10:25
popeySo I anticipate buying another one rather soon10:26
foobarryi bet a console is cheaper than a gpu10:26
awilkinsHmm, you can get the next-tier-down GPU for £100-20010:27
awilkinsAnd that will make everything go faster.10:27
zmoylan-piwow, i intend replacing my main system for around €200 :-)10:27
awilkinsNew console only makes new console games faster. And they cost a bomb.10:27
popeyI bet a console can't do what my pc does10:27
foobarryconsole avoids the GPU race10:28
* awilkins shrugs10:28
popeyGPU race allows for trickle down economics10:28
awilkinsHaven't changed my GPU in years10:28
popeyMy son can have my old GPU10:28
popeyme either10:28
awilkinsForgotten which model I have actually10:28
popey14/08/2011 was when I bought this GTX 460 from overclockers according to my email.10:28
awilkinsIt runs Elite : Dangerous between 30 and 60 frames at 1920x1080 ergo it is good enough10:28
popeymaybe not.10:29
popeyMine runs GTA V at 1366x768 at 30fps :S10:29
bigcalmMy home system has a "nVidia GeForce GTX 660" no idea how it'll fair10:29
awilkinsGTX 560 Ti on the 12th Feb 201110:29
popeynot a lot better than mine I think10:29
foobarryi don't have a home system anymore10:30
foobarryjust a laptop and a microserver10:30
bigcalm"GeForce GTX 750 Ti" in my work workstation10:30
bigcalmMaybe I should add a 2nd drive and install GameOS on it10:30
awilkinsMy next GPU will probably be part of my Next Big Upgrade10:30
awilkinsI'll need something that can do 60Hz in 3D stereo in most games at whatever res the Oculus Rift CV1 comes out at10:31
awilkinsfoobarry, Running a Pi2 as a microserver10:31
foobarryRAIDed disk?10:31
awilkinsfoobarry, No10:32
awilkinsBut it's not critical10:32
awilkinsIf I start needing heavy storage I'll defer that to my NAS box10:32
popeyhah, all the broadcasts in steam are gta 5 today10:32
awilkinsThat has MySQL and a bunch of other apps available for it's default OS as "apps"10:32
awilkinsNAS has a RAID 0 array of 2x 4TB WD reds10:33
awilkinsOh, sorry10:33
awilkinsRAID 110:33
awilkinsRAID 0 wouldn't be much use10:34
davmor2popey: it wouldn't be an excuse to buy the latest dell that you are looking for would it?10:35
TwistedLucidityQuestion: Is there an easy way to automagically keep (say) the last 3 kernel versions, rather than have them all hang around and cause problems when running updates?10:36
davmor2TwistedLucidity: sudo apt-get autoremove10:37
TwistedLuciditySo...so run that prior to every update?10:37
davmor2TwistedLucidity: should leave you with Current kernel/new kernel and original kernel iirc10:38
TwistedLuciditydavmor2: OK, seems simple enough. Just have to remember to do it!10:38
TwistedLucidityIt's easy enough to fix, but seeing "Kernel updates failed. Panic, human. PANIC NOW!" is never fun. :-)10:39
* bigcalm comforts himself by watching the GTA V videos on Steam10:39
davmor2TwistedLucidity: just alias apt-get-dist to sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y && sudo apt-get autoremove  done ;)10:39
popeywow, steam update which hits you in the face with a GTA 5 support note10:39
popeywindows user names have to be A-Z, a-z and 0-9 only, anything else and GTA 5 won't install10:39
TwistedLuciditydavmor2: Heh....I knew this was the place to ask10:39
popeydavmor2: no. :)10:39
* TwistedLucidity really should look into Landscape or something10:40
popey\o/ landscape10:40
popeyfree for 10 machines10:40
popey(and 10 VMs)10:40
foobarrywonder if a bug or anti le^e€½²€3t speak10:40
TwistedLucidityAye, which is why I should look into it. Or something anyway. "sudo apt...." is not a big deal, but manually having to hit a number of machines becomes, well, a drag10:40
davmor2TwistedLucidity: landscape makes it much easier and really don't run that it may break your system :)  but if you run sudo apt-get autoremove on 14.04 + it will remove old kernel images10:41
ali1234how many GTA games have they made now and they still can't even parse a string correctly?10:41
TwistedLucidity3 physical boxes, 1 always-on VM (maybe more soon).10:41
popeyi added my mums machine to my landscape10:42
davmor2TwistedLucidity: I do it now as it saves me manually culling them to make /boot have enough free space for the new kernels :)10:42
popeymakes life easier so I can remotely do stuff to her machine even now she's changed ISP and I have no SSH access10:42
TwistedLucidityThat reminds me, I really need to have the router poll the WAN IP and update the DNS records is needs be.10:43
TwistedLucidityOr if Landscape can do it, that'll be fine too.10:43
awilkinspopey, There's an idea10:43
awilkinsDoes 14.04 support it?10:44
TwistedLucidityA project to look into over the next few months once everything else is out of the way. Yeesh. Roll-on retirement!10:44
TwistedLucidityIn ~35 years.10:44
awilkinsAlthough TBH I think I have mum on the dynamic DNS + SSH port forward10:44
* TwistedLucidity starts sobbing10:44
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, Is your router running something you can put a cron job on?10:45
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, I'm using duckdns and all you have to do is fetch a particular URL periodically10:45
TwistedLucidityDD-WRT, even has some pre-configured muck for some companies. But MythicBeasts isn't one - so yeah, need to slap in a wee script.10:45
awilkinsI have my CNAME records point at the duckdns names and I'm all good10:45
TwistedLucidityNever heard of DuckDNS before. DDG folks?10:46
awilkinsDon't think so10:47
awilkinsIt's just some guys who did it for learning purposes10:48
popeyawilkins: yes10:48
awilkinsNo association with DDG : http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1muz4q/duckdns_a_completely_free_as_in_beer_ddns_solution/ccd6z0x10:49
awilkins(quote : some guy on the internet claiming to be the DuckDNS guy)10:49
popeybigcalm: someone was live streaming their gta 5 setup last night on launch, and left their key on screen, someone stole it immediately.10:50
czajkowskiso who's coming for drinks next week ! http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3087-release-drinks/10:50
awilkinsBoo, we need drinkies in Manchester10:52
popeydo it10:53
MyrttiI'd consider if I hadn't just been to London to vote and apply for a new passport10:53
bigcalmpopey: :(10:55
awilkinsHave DMed @madlabuk to see if there's any possibility of Ubuntu Drinkies next Thursday10:56
awilkinsThey already seem to have a Java meetup and a meeting of their Space Programme10:56
awilkinsSo I'll probably be heading there that night anyway!10:57
directhex_new car buying is exciting, but delays are frustrating11:13
foobarrywhat u buying directhex_11:16
directhex_A CAR :O11:16
bigcalmA Volt!11:17
foobarryare they electric/hybrid?11:18
bigcalmFully elec11:18
foobarryi keep nearly getting run over by electrics11:18
foobarryliving in surburbia you often cross quiet streets using your ears11:18
foobarryespecially cul de sacs11:19
zmoylan-pia habit you'll unlearn or darwin will sort it out11:19
foobarryhoping they would get a noise added to them11:19
foobarrystepping out from the kerb and a guy decided to pull away from kerb without indicating11:20
popeydirecthex_: that looks quite nice11:20
foobarryi didn't know his intention or able to second guess because the engine was not making noise11:20
directhex_foobarry: "it's complicated"11:20
directhex_foobarry: at low speeds, it's all electric11:20
TwistedLucidityfoobarry: Always look. Both ways. Push-cyclists are quiet and they can kill peds as well.11:20
foobarrysure, but in the case of driver in car deciding to drive away from kerbn suddenly, i had no way of knowing11:21
foobarryif i had heard engine i would have beeen aware of driver in car etc11:21
directhex_foobarry: at high speeds, it's PE hybrid like a prius. at low speeds if you forgot to charge it (or ran it flat), it's all electric w/ petrol generator11:21
awilkinsHave discovered that my car allowance gets paid regardless of whether I spend it on car11:21
TwistedLucidityfoobarry: In that scenario, true. Which is why you throw yourself on to the bonnet and then sue them.11:21
awilkinsThis is almost disappointing because now I have no incentive to drive anything nicer11:22
foobarryor they would drive away11:22
zmoylan-pirocket powered roller skates awilkins :-)11:22
foobarrylawn mower11:22
awilkinsI thought about leasing a Tesla but it's a MITE over my budget11:22
directhex_foobarry: https://youtu.be/hbhIB1oDoxU?t=16711:22
zmoylan-pido reliant robin have a leccy version yet? :-)11:23
foobarrycan anyone recommend a garden fork that won't break easily?11:26
zmoylan-pihow many forks have you broken?11:27
zmoylan-pithen it might have been the fork or it might have been you using it wrong.  get another and wait11:28
foobarrybut reading the reviews it seems lot of other people do too11:28
zmoylan-pibecause people use them wrong11:28
popeyor people leave them outside and they rot11:28
foobarrynot sure whether to get teh £15 one or splash out on the wilkinson sword stainless steel one11:28
zmoylan-pithey stick them in compacted soil and try to break the soil by applying pressure to the fork11:28
foobarryor maybe a cheaper carbon steel one :S11:30
foobarryyou never know what reviewers on the net are doing11:32
foobarryor how crazy/stupid they are11:32
davmor2directhex_: don't buy that one you know pronouncing xul is too close to saying zool ;)11:33
zmoylan-piat least it's not the beetlejuice model11:33
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
directhex_davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7MAacSPNM11:33
davmor2directhex_: there is no chevy only xul11:34
directhex_sigh @ focus in unity11:35
popeyhttps://yougov.co.uk/#/centre GRAPHS!11:46
Laneybarely anybody is bothering to campaign around here11:50
Laneysafe seat, safe ward11:50
=== webpigeon_ is now known as webpigeon
popeysame here11:54
popeyhad a letter through the door from a councillor saying sorry he'd missed us (we were in)11:54
zmoylan-pisome sort of pi activated spotlight pointing at the doorstep with fanfare music... :-)11:56
ali1234dueling banjos?11:57
Laneyi tweeted some of them asking if there's a hustings11:58
Laneyno reply11:58
Laneymight do a chrisccoulson12:00
chrisccoulsonWhat have I done? *hides*12:01
popeywhat has he done?12:01
chrisccoulsonLaney, oh, are you referring to how I voted in May?12:04
Laneysure am12:05
chrisccoulsonaha :)12:05
Laneyit's incredibly tedious to page down your tweets back to then12:05
chrisccoulsonI'll probably be voting the same way again12:05
Laneytwitter seems to have given up giving me new ones12:05
popeychrisccoulson: how did you vote?12:06
chrisccoulsonLaney, is this what you're looking for? https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/46943783317931622412:06
ali1234wait, why do the parties get to write a tagline?12:07
chrisccoulsonali1234, it makes the ballot paper larger, which means it's easier to draw a cock on it using a black marker pen12:08
chrisccoulsonLaney, what constituency are you in?12:10
czajkowskipopey: dont suppose you know if the bluetooth on the Ubuntu phone will work with a selfie stick ?12:10
Laneychrisccoulson: Nottingham East12:10
popeyNot sure I want to know12:10
popeyczajkowski: almost certainly not12:11
popeyczajkowski: file a bug :)12:11
ali1234chrisccoulson: there's zero chance of labour not winning nottingham east12:11
MooDooLaney: chrisccoulson gedling borough here12:11
chrisccoulsonLaney, aha, I feel a bit sorry for you. Chris Leslie is quite an unremarkable MP12:13
czajkowskipopey: well I'll get one and test it then I can at least file the bug knowing I've tried before I file it12:13
popeyczajkowski: i think we have bluetooth configured to only allow headphones / speakers right now12:13
popeythat can change12:13
popeybut the camera app doesn't have the facility, so yeah, test and file a bug12:14
czajkowskiwill do12:14
czajkowskiwanted to use the phone at mobile week NYC12:15
czajkowskiwould have been a great way to demo it working12:15
czajkowskipopey: next co working day we may have folks from Xamarin joining us :)12:15
czajkowskican be all about the mobile12:16
czajkowskithe story of my life right now12:16
czajkowskiI swear my laptop has a mind of its own today. keeps going up in volume and I'm not touching it12:19
* popey looks at directhex_ 12:21
popeybe nice to have xamarin available on linux..12:21
popey(and ubuntu phone)12:22
directhex_yes, it would.12:22
popeywe can dream...12:22
czajkowskiThere is a Xamarin and COuchbase workshop next month free to all if anyone is interested  http://www.meetup.com/Couchbase-London/events/221820591/12:22
directhex_popey: i think it'll be an easier sell for me once steam machines launch12:23
directhex_i can push the indie gamedev angle, via monogame12:23
popeyThat's later in the year?12:26
popeyI see controllers go on sale in November.12:26
directhex_everything is november12:30
zmoylan-picrimbo is coming...12:36
zmoylan-pionly a few 100 shopping days left12:38
foobarrynew features in 15.04?12:41
zmoylan-pisee, nearly into the christmas rush!! :-)12:41
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
* popey updates his amazon wishlist for christmas12:43
zmoylan-pionly summer, back to school and halloween sales to go12:43
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
foobarryplasma5 looks like kde4 without the cashew12:44
davmor2popey: are you on vivid?12:44
davmor2popey: desktop12:45
foobarry5. Locally Integrated Menus are now default.12:46
foobarry^^ global menu is gone?12:46
ali1234foobarry: does that mean i have to stop trolling KDE users by calling it "the peanut"?12:47
foobarryif you can find any ,it seems so12:48
foobarry15.04 looks like the lowest key release in ages12:50
popeydavmor2: yup12:52
davmor2popey: did you update today yet?12:53
popeya few minutes ago12:53
davmor2popey: can you press AltGr and see if it displays the menus for you please12:54
popeyit doesnt12:54
popeyoh, 22 more updates to go12:54
popeya thousand kde packages12:54
popeydavmor2: i haven't logged out or rebooted for ages, so I may not be a good gauge of anything12:55
popey 13:55:17 up 5 days, 17:34,  4 users,  load average: 0.81, 0.65, 0.7012:55
foobarryelementary freya got released \o/12:55
popeydon't forget to pay for your iso!12:55
foobarryi was going to contribute actually :D12:56
foobarryor maybe sponsor a bug12:56
popeyhaha http://askubuntu.com/questions/607935/what-determines-permissions-in-dev12:58
popeyno answers for 2 days.12:58
popeyI stick a "free internet points" bounty on it, and get instant answers! :D12:59
foobarryyay for free internet points12:59
ali1234because questions without bounties get buried in seconds12:59
TwistedLuciditypopey: Ah, but are any of them correct?13:05
popeydunno, need to figure that out13:06
ali1234permissions in dev are determined by udev btw13:06
TwistedLucidityStill, a wrong answer is probably still better than the OP replying with "It's OK, I fixed it." and then never saying how...13:06
popeywell yes, because it's triggered discussion on a couple of answers13:06
TwistedLucidityThere should be a special place in hell for people like that13:07
ali1234the answer by serg is the correct one13:07
TwistedLuciditypopey: Why not just read the manual?13:07
* TwistedLucidity starts running13:07
ali1234read the manual for udev? hahahahahahhhaha13:07
popeythought so13:08
ali1234implying it even exists13:08
TwistedLucidityali1234: A code without documentation is poor code.13:08
ali1234i agree13:08
ali1234the really funny part is that even lennart himself couldn't write a correct udev rule for pulseaudio13:09
ali1234but his attempted worked correctly for years due to undefined behaviour13:10
ali1234then one day it broke13:10
ali1234but apparently all of systemd is documented and has stability guarantees /s13:11
TwistedLucidityI hope the documentation has been tested....13:11
ali1234the documentation for udev is basically equivalent to bad autogenerated doxygen stuff - it tells you absolutely nothing13:12
ali1234essentially it gives you a list of valid keywords and identifiers and tells you nothing about what they do13:13
TwistedLucidity"getFoo(): This method gets a foo and returns foo." with no explanation on what a "foo" is, why you want one or where to use it.13:13
TwistedLucidityI hate things like that13:13
TwistedLucidityIdea: have a second coder write the unit tests based solely off the comments....13:14
* TwistedLucidity cackles evily13:14
ali1234popey: btw the person asking why you think permissions are wrong has a good point13:16
ali1234/dev/input/event* should only be readable by root13:16
ali1234mumble had better have a damn good reason for doing so, because it looks awfully like malware13:17
ali1234i would hope it's for something like "push to talk" when a game has grabbed all keyboard input from X13:18
ali1234the good news is that with udev you can control permissions down to individual devices. so for push-to-talk you could get one of those usb buttons (ie a 1 key keyboard) and only allow mumble to access that13:21
ali1234so yeah udev isn't all bad13:21
shaunoreminds me, I was looking for a way for python to grab keyboard input in a background process13:22
zmoylan-pino security implications there...13:23
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, I hate doxygen13:23
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, set a policy of having documented methods on one of my last projects13:24
shauno(it's not really an environment with any security implications for input.  the 'keyboard' is a lirc dongle - IR receiver that presents itself as a keyboard to the OS)13:24
awilkinsSome smartarse deployed Doxygen and ka-pow! Documentation.13:24
popeyali1234: yeah.13:24
awilkinsOr it's Java equivalent13:24
popeyali1234: it is for push to talk, yes. mumble couldn't see my keypresses until I fiddled with that.13:25
ali1234nothing wrong with doxygen and similar when used correctly13:25
awilkinsProblem was the classes and methods had some of the most obtuse and confusing names possible13:25
ali1234problem is nobody ever does13:25
TwistedLucidityawilkins: Or comments that make perfect sense at the time, but don't 3 years later.13:26
TwistedLucidityAnd if you do fully elaborate methods in the docs (or link to the full elaboration), when the code changes people don't update the docs13:27
TwistedLucidityOr they move the docs13:27
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, My rule of thumb for any comment is - can you make the code clear enough not to need it13:27
TwistedLucidityawilkins: That does help, but it often not enough13:28
TwistedLucidityI work on a system where you can export documents. The can have multiple 'pages', linked content, reditions and so on.13:28
TwistedLucidityAn export is a non-trivial operation for various reasons.13:29
TwistedLuciditySo the method "doc.export" has a bunch of flags for which version, rendition etc13:29
TwistedLucidityThe code is perfectly clear.13:29
TwistedLucidityThe interations between those switches and the edge cases? No so much13:30
awilkinsClass diagram from one of the projects I despaired of : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/refset-classes.png13:30
TwistedLucidityOr why the defaults are the way they are.13:30
awilkinsThat one is LESS complicated than the diagram for the single class at the top13:30
awilkinsWhich has around 200 methods accumulated from about 12 interfaces it implements13:31
awilkinsThe methods are hidden because they are redonkulous13:31
TwistedLucidityIt doesn't matter how bad it is, so long as you follow the process to create badness. ISO9001 approval!13:32
TwistedLucidityawilkins: I fear for your unit tests......13:33
awilkinsAha, found the class at the top : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/ConceptComponent.png13:33
awilkinsThe worst thing is, it's generic (  type params R, C)13:34
awilkinsAnd param C is    "C extends ConceptComponent<R, C> "13:35
awilkinsYes, this class is it's own grandpa13:35
awilkinsAnd it's abstract. So any instance of it also it's own grandpa while also being a child of it's own grandpa13:36
awilkinsGrandpa being 2,860 lines of what seems to be mostly type casting...13:37
awilkinsAnd it implements eleven (11!!) interfaces13:38
awilkinsYeah, pretty much13:42
awilkinsI've written generics code that makes co-workers wince13:42
awilkinsThis makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry for mummy until the bad code goes away13:42
TwistedLucidityJava is becoming a lumbering beast. Time it was torn down and reborn13:42
awilkinsHappilyu I13:43
TwistedLucidityWell, I guess it has. dotNet.13:43
zmoylan-pijava 2: this time you'll cry13:43
awilkinsam no longer responsible for any aspect of this project!13:43
awilkinsI like C# as a language13:43
awilkinsBut I think Java has nicked most of the good bits from it13:43
intrbizTwistedLucidity: java could do with sheding some of the legacy cruft13:43
intrbiz.net is just as bloated now13:43
TwistedLuciditySpeaking of Java...I have to fingure out why the runtime method signatures seem to bear no relation to the source. I suspect I have goosed Maven.....13:44
* zmoylan-pi is writing a small script in perl at the mo...13:44
* TwistedLucidity longs to return to COBOL13:44
zmoylan-pii find perl is very like basic of 8 bit days...13:44
intrbizzmoylan-pi: really?13:44
directhex_god i hate java dev13:45
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, if the method sigs are wrong, then you have the wrong combination of src and runtime13:46
zmoylan-piyeah, most of my scripts look very like basic code i would write13:46
TwistedLucidityJava is OK server-side (could be better, but it's kinda OK). Front-end Java makes me want to cry13:46
awilkinsTwistedLucidity, Like, totally different versions13:46
awilkinsYeah, the best thing about .NET is the WIndows.Forms library13:46
TwistedLucidityawilkins: Yeah, I know. But all the timestamps match. This is what I get for having to work on 3 versions at onces and compile a patch.....13:46
awilkinsAnd the designers - even the FOSS one (SharpDevelop) is a joy to use next to ANYTHING I've used for Java13:47
awilkinsProper round-tripping of code to form!13:47
awilkinsGUI code in a separate file so you can concentrate on logic!13:47
TwistedLucidityOh FFS....*there's* the problem!13:48
directhex_professionally, aaaaaAAAAAaaaaAAAaaaaAAAAAaaaAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAa java dev hurts13:49
TwistedLucidityawilkins: Err....GUI separation is just best practice, innit?13:49
TwistedLuciditydirecthex_: Pays the bills13:49
directhex_TwistedLucidity: it's nice when the IDE makes it easy without being restrictive13:49
directhex_TwistedLucidity: e.g. in monodevelop, i like being able to design complex widgets in code, and drag-and-drop them in the designer13:50
TwistedLucidityHaving used IntelliJ and Eclipse for a while and whilst Eclipse is dreadful and IntelliJ has very nice features (like a functioning Maven integration)....Eclipse is still better.13:50
intrbizone avoids GUI work at all cost13:50
ali1234that sounds awesome13:50
directhex_eclipse is why i quit java dev in 2004.13:50
awilkinsEclipse is much better now13:51
directhex_"use eclipse, it is the best!" *tries* "OH GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR BRAIN RUN AWAAAAAAAAAAAAY"13:51
awilkinsEclipse + Maven is quite tolerable13:51
intrbizTwistedLucidity: m2e works fine13:51
TwistedLucidityintrbiz: m2e is terrible.13:51
TwistedLucidityBarely functional13:51
awilkins*developing* for eclipse.... well, hopefully e4 is easier13:51
awilkinsm2e is OK in Luna13:51
awilkinsThe "no lifecycle plugin" thing gets old13:52
ali1234i've never been patient enough to wait for eclipse to load13:52
TwistedLucidityHave to manually add every plug-in to the correct lifecycle state in the super-pom or m2e barfs.13:52
directhex_i hate all these things13:52
directhex_i'd rather be writing c#13:52
TwistedLucidityFreedom hater :-P13:52
awilkinsThey should probably have a paper-cuts hackfest that fixes all the common ones13:52
intrbizTBF nothing complicated in my POMs13:53
TwistedLucidityOh, I am getting a kicking for the Maven stuff being way to slow13:53
TwistedLucidityWe might revert to Ant at this rate13:53
intrbizAnt is awful13:54
TwistedLucidityBut it works13:54
TwistedLucidityFor example - you can copy files!13:54
foobarryDec is worse13:54
TwistedLucidityWe want Maven for the dependency management, some of the plug-ins etc as they make life much, much easier.13:54
TwistedLucidityBut we need to generate ~10 WARs from a single call, and it doesn't look like Maven can cope13:55
TwistedLuciditySo that's multiple calls13:55
TwistedLucidityHence too slow13:55
intrbizTwistedLucidity: what is the difference in these WARs?13:55
TwistedLucidityVarious deployment factors (backing systems - so different versions of the 'core' code, target web application etc).13:56
TwistedLuciditySo at the moment, Maven compiles the WARs with the variations with the backing systems (all based on dependencies, Maven is awesome at that)13:58
TwistedLucidityThen Ant copies in the various configuration overlays that are needed for each web app server13:58
TwistedLucidityThen WARs it as required13:58
TwistedLucidityFor my investigation, Maven simply cannot cope with the concept of copying a file from location A->B13:59
TwistedLucidityI also doubt it's possible to have it generator multiple WARs in a single hit; not looked at that yet13:59
intrbizTwistedLucidity: it would be trivial to write a MOJO to do that13:59
intrbizand yes I would like to kill whoever though calling them that was a good idea14:00
intrbizTwistedLucidity: are you using modules to make up for 10 variants?14:00
awilkinsIs doing this in the build system the best idea? - yeah14:00
awilkinsThat's just what I was going to say - sounds more like a job for Guice / Modules14:01
TwistedLucidityintrbiz: As far as possible, yes14:01
TwistedLucidityBut there a few odds 'n sods which are just easier to yank from source control and spaff into the target folders.14:01
awilkins'tis possible to do this14:02
TwistedLucidityThe class, web templates, dependencies etc are all in Maven14:02
intrbizTwistedLucidity: worst case, writing a custom packaging plugin is pretty easy14:03
TwistedLucidityintrbiz: Might come to that. I think part of the problem is the Ant/Maven interface14:03
* awilkins pukes in his mouth a bit at mixing Ant and Maven14:04
awilkinsYeah, it's horrible14:04
TwistedLucidityawilkins: No choice14:04
TwistedLucidityWe have *got* to use Ant14:04
awilkinsThe most seamless ways are to copy properties from Maven to Ant but it's a fiddle14:04
awilkinsThat could use some love, TBH14:04
awilkinsThings that you would expect to "Just Work(tm)" don't14:05
TwistedLucidityIf I call "ant precompile package deploy" that ends up being at least three separate calls into Maven. Each time Maven check the sourc etc etc14:05
awilkinsWhoa, you're calling Maven from Ant??!14:05
TwistedLucidityI'd rather just do "mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=bar" or whatever and let it run14:05
TwistedLucidityawilkins: Yes14:06
awilkinsAnd I thought calling Ant from Maven was icky...14:06
TwistedLucidityIf I can convince people to ditch Ant at least for the Java stuff (we have dotNet and other stuff in the mix as well) then I'd be a happy man14:06
TwistedLucidityIf I can get Maven to generate multiple results....which should be doable via profiles. Maybe.14:07
awilkinsShould be able to do multiple executions14:09
awilkinsDon't know if you can execute multiple profiles in parallel or even series (without just ... starting the job again)14:10
TwistedLucidityawilkins: Yeah, that's what we do now; multiples14:10
TwistedLucidityI was thinking of trying to multithread it. Once the assets are in Maven, it's really just a case of assembly. There is no need to re-check source etc.14:11
awilkinsBreak it up into multiple poms, one that installs the assets, one that assembles them?14:11
TwistedLucidityThat could work, couldn't it?14:12
awilkinsGive them a daddy POM for properties and version management, etc.14:12
TwistedLucidityThe Ant (yes, yuck) could got "Thread 1: mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=1", "Thread 2: mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=2" and so forth14:12
awilkinsApparently you can also run multiple profiles14:13
awilkinsBut I don't know if it does them in parallel14:13
intrbizTwistedLucidity: have you looked at the asembly plugin?14:13
TwistedLucidityintrbiz: Tried to. Couldn't understand it14:14
TwistedLuciditySo gave up because I could get Ant to do what was needed in 5 minutes.14:14
TwistedLucidityTime is also a serious factor14:14
TwistedLuciditySays he, chatting on IRC.....14:14
* TwistedLucidity is testing. Honest.14:14
* awilkins has done assemblies before14:14
intrbizTwistedLucidity: with the asemlby plugin you can easily copy in files etc to an archive14:17
TwistedLucidityBeing able to parallelise stuff would be awesome14:17
TwistedLucidityintrbiz: That's what I thought, but it didn't seem to be easy. Not a simple case of "source -> destination"14:17
intrbizTwistedLucidity: you specify via ant filesets what to include14:19
foobarrythe builders took off and threw away my hozelock fitting on my garden tap14:25
TwistedLucidityI seem to recall it making zero sense when I read the Maven docs. <- See? someone who reads docs!14:25
foobarrywhat do i need to buy please?14:25
TwistedLucidityfoobarry: New builders14:25
foobarrythey are albanian, maybe hozelock isn't a thing over there14:26
foobarrythey also used my wifes facvourite dish to mix plaster14:26
TwistedLucidityWhy did they not have their own plastic mixer-tub wotsit?14:26
foobarryall questions are null and void due to language barrier14:27
TwistedLucidityAlthough plaster can be removed - you might get lucky14:27
foobarrynope, long time ago14:27
foobarryand then they left it inthe garden14:27
TwistedLucidityWithout wishing to rile you up...why did you hire builders you couldn't communicate with?14:28
TwistedLucidityI may be misunderstanding...14:29
TwistedLucidityI do that a lot.14:29
TwistedLuciditySee: Maven assemblies14:29
foobarryi hired an essex man14:29
foobarrybut his grunt workers are albanian14:29
TwistedLucidityWell, there's yer problem! :-)14:29
foobarrythe modern hierarchy14:29
TwistedLucidityYeah, guess it's the way it goes.14:29
TwistedLucidityIf you got the builder via "Trust-a-trader" or soemthing; complain14:30
foobarrythey also didn't use our toilet14:30
foobarryfor the entire 2-3 onths14:30
TwistedLucidityThe used the dog's food bowl?14:30
zmoylan-pihis roses came up great that year :-)14:30
foobarrya pile of leaves at the end of the garden14:30
TwistedLucidityDeffo report the builder14:31
foobarrywhat for?14:31
foobarrythey did a good job (except for the leaky roof)14:31
TwistedLuciditySubstandard work, and endangering public health.14:31
foobarrywith their poo?14:32
TwistedLucidityYes, their poop14:32
foobarryi should have taken their crowbar as payment but i gave it back to them today14:32
TwistedLucidityEmbedded in a skull?14:33
TwistedLucidityawilkins, intrbiz: I will go away and look and more discrete POMs/assemblies14:33
knightwiselogged in over ssh via the terminal app om the ubuntu phone14:56
knightwisetoo bad i dont have any function keys14:57
knightwiseah i DO have function keys15:05
TwistedLucidityknightwise: SSH into something and bring up some curses tools. Tell hipsters it's the prototype next-gen iOS. :-P15:28
awilkinsThen run cmatrix on it.15:28
zmoylan-pigreen text on black background for maximum hipsterness15:29
popeyhah, what's the best nerd thing to run in a terminal15:31
popeymoon buggy?15:31
popey"We have the latest games!"15:31
popeys/the\ oldest/some"15:32
zmoylan-pii have tmux with split screens. one for irc using irssi and newsbeuter an rss reader as well. sometimes i split one panel to give a command prompt to get other things done...15:33
diddledanTwistedLucidity: bit.ly/HWTechMelodrama15:34
diddledanthere's very little info about it on that page but it runs several cli tools in a tmux session to recreate every hollywood computer visual ever15:35
diddledanok, maybe not recreate, but simulate15:36
popeyDid any of you play snipes on netware?15:36
popeyI loved that, one of the first realtime networked games I ever played15:36
popeyin ~1993 or so, maybe before.15:36
popeywas awesome15:37
diplopopey: dkirklands hollywood thing :) ref terminal app :)15:37
zmoylan-pidr-dos used to have a great vector based space networked shootem up... spacewars?15:38
MartijnVdSWheee! http://www.nealstephenson.com/news/2015/04/13/seveneves-excerpt/15:42
diddledanre: dkirkland's hollywood thing - launchpad shows a package in distributions for vivid - does that mean vivid has it in the main repo?15:55
diddledanref: https://launchpad.net/hollywood/+packages15:56
daftykinsah another dead disk owner discovered at bed time last night - http://paste.ubuntu.com/10819664/15:57
daftykinsi really ought to keep a tally ;)15:57
diddledanwell done, daftykins15:57
shaunodisks really don't like you, do they?15:57
diddledandaftykins: I'm working on something that'll let you find out. but time. I don't have enough15:57
daftykinsthe user in #ubuntu was complaining of the software center repeatedly failing, and even command line updates claiming the package lists were corrupted15:58
diddledanaah the raw read error rate is huge15:59
daftykinsit's the discover and pending state of bad sectors that's the true kicker :D15:59
daftykinsthat disk wouldn't function normally until a good dd zero fill to find and remap everything in one go16:00
bigcalmAnybody good with bash know how to help me with this? syntax error near unexpected token `FILENAME="${f/$PRE_DEPLOY//}"'16:12
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
popeyho ho17:08
popeybigcalm: you have two different types of quotes17:09
popey` at the start17:09
popey' at the end17:09
popeythey mismatch17:09
daftykinsheh yeah i read about that one. some were a little bit too keen!17:09
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
ali1234i don't understand that gta key thing17:44
ali1234twitch has like a 15 second lag17:44
ali1234so if he typed in his key and then hit enter, he'd already have registered it before anyone on twitch saw it17:44
ali1234did he like type it in to the box and then go and make a cup of tea?17:45
daftykinsyou know how with Steam it pops up to tell you your key? in the corner of the window17:45
daftykinshe had that displayed for ages17:45
ali1234yes, but i have never needed to type that key in to play the game17:46
ali1234i don't understand why that thing even shows up17:46
daftykinsyeah i've seen it on far more games than actually require it to be entered17:46
daftykinsbut there are some like GTA which require an online account be created with it i think17:47
ali1234so on GTA V, you buy the game on a DRM platform which tells you the key, and then you need to type that key back in so that the DRM platform will let you play the game?17:47
ali1234doesn't that seem a bit...redundant?17:47
ali1234i honestly don't understand why people put up with that stuff17:48
diddledanali1234: double DRM17:48
diddledanali1234: because if we DRM all the things twice then WIN17:48
diddledanI loathe DRM anyway17:49
ali1234i don't mind DRM as long as it isn't completely incompetent17:49
diddledanmost DRM _IS_ compltely incompetent tho17:49
shaunoI have a healthy distrust for it because I still play things that are 20 years old, and don't expect any of the current schemes to function in 20 years17:50
daftykinsbecause they want to play on PC ;)17:50
diddledanI don't mind DRM on streaming provided that I can actually stream on my device of choice17:50
diddledanshauno: yes, I don't like that a lot of DRM these days requires persistent connections17:51
shaunonot just persistent connections, but for their service to still be functioning17:51
diddledanand of course there's the "OMG ONLINE"-only games that get their servers shut down because num-players < X17:51
diddledanEA have done that a while back with a whole slew of games IIRC17:52
diddledanrandomness alert: Apple ought to release a proprietary version of IRC and call it iIRC17:54
diddledanshauno: shush! I enjoy thinking!17:56
daftykinsyears ago i got given a Mac - first task was a clean install of the OS - second was to find an IRC client17:57
daftykinsi was shocked to find pretty much all were pay-for, madness!17:57
shaunoit's not as bad as it sounds17:58
shaunothe 'wave' before that were all pretty much terrible17:58
daftykinsgotta run, pub quiz in 1hr the other side of the island - that's a whole 20 min ride away :D17:59
shaunosnak & ircle and such17:59
daftykinsah yeah snak rings a bell17:59
daftykinsta-ra \o17:59
diddledannow we've got textual which is actually not bad, although a memory hog due to using webkit18:00
shauno(although the most popular paid-for client currently is also floss.  you can buy it from the appstore, or build it from github)18:00
shaunohave fun18:00
diddledanshauno: I paid for it even though it's OSS18:00
diddledanshauno: I'm perfectly happy to support folk if they retain the OSS model18:01
shaunoheh, ditto.  because I'm lazy.  but it's nice to know it's all on github too18:01
diddledanI don't mind proprietary either. but taking an OSS codebase and closing it is something I hate18:01
diddledanyeah, paying for convenience is a good model18:02
ChunkzZpot, kettle, black - daftykins.18:03
diddledanChunkzZ: ?18:03
popey18:47 < ali1234> so on GTA V, you buy the game on a DRM platform which tells you the key, and then you need to type  that key back in so that the DRM platform will let you play the game?18:08
popeyyou don't need to type the key in, but it puts it on screen for you to copy and save somewhere18:09
popey(I certainly didn't type it in)18:09
ali1234why would you need to save it if you don't need to type it in?18:10
ali1234and why can anyone steal your game by just copying that number?18:10
ali1234it's like "here's a number which is completely useless for any other purpose other than stealing your game, keep it safe"18:13
shaunoI'm still impressed that someone actually stole it though18:18
shaunoeven if they did have some minutes to do so, they'd have to have a non-steam copy all ready to go, but not yet past the activation stage?18:18
ali1234bought it physical, installed it on two computers, waited for someone dumb to show their key on twitch18:20
popeysurely you can just click the button and say "add game to steam" and punch in the number, without having downloaded it18:20
popeythen download after18:21
shaunohm, I didn't think of that.  I've only ever used that for redeeming humble codes18:22
ali1234popey: doesn't that mean that if you buy it on steam it is infinitely transferable?18:23
ali1234if you click "add to steam" and then type in your own CD key, does it make the steam server explode?18:24
* popey shrugs18:26
diddledanis that like googling for google?18:27
diddledan(my brother aparently did that a while back and accidentally followed an advert to a bad site)18:27
diddledanhe was looking for chrome I believe18:28
diddledanshauno: flaming sticks of fire: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VQ3J2FyWtPY19:51
diddledan20 minutes19:51
shaunooooh kerbalnauts *clicks*19:52
diddledanthat's expensive. thrust worth 1.3meelion pounds19:54
shaunoI'm not sure .... nm19:54
diddledand'oh the stream died on me19:54
* diddledan reloads the page19:55
diddledanI don't like that they have a terminator count19:58
shaunothey really should get nasatv on the appletv20:00
shaunoit's a shame we can't have a launchpad.  we have lots of big empty bits with nothing in it20:01
diddledanthe auto sequence for the terminators has started!20:01
diddledanI guess it's judgement day20:02
shaunoI hope not.  if they outsource the rapture to commercial interests, that'd be messy20:02
diddledanello Scorpians20:04
Scorpianso/ shauno20:04
Scorpians<-- bomberman20:04
diddledanshauno: Scorpians is from "the other place"20:05
shaunohah.  ello20:05
diddledanScorpians: you'll have to watch your language in here, we're family-friendly :-p20:07
Scorpiansis english ok? well bad english?20:07
Scorpiansis binary accepted20:07
diddledanyeah, just no swearing or mentioning of n0rty body parts20:07
diddledanhow old is this rocket? just wondering if it's allowed to smoke20:09
Scorpianshow exactly does it stay up? lower level clamps or is it sitting on its engine exhausts20:09
diddledanKSP would have you believe it's sitting on theengine cones20:10
Scorpianst- 2020:10
Scorpianst10 GO GO GO GO20:10
diddledanI think I'm slightly behind you20:10
shaunoI'm still at -15!20:10
shaunono spoilers please :)20:11
Scorpiansohh IT WILL SHOW us the stargate shots. if ya see one that looks like a stargate its in tank fuel camera.20:11
Scorpiansor is that ula?20:12
shaunoI hope they don't break this one.  it's carrying a very important espresso machine20:12
Scorpiansi wonder if it will actully land this time.20:12
diddledangrr, the stream died on me20:14
Scorpianscheck other channel i linked 3 the youtube and yourstream are ok20:14
Scorpiansno its the right side camra looked froze the left side was still moving20:15
ScorpiansElon Musk20:30
ScorpiansAscent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.20:30
diddledanhow hard is it to not crash considering they did it on the moon back in the 60s20:31
shauno"landed too hard for survival" sounds a lot like "missiled the droneship"20:31
diddledanindeed :-p20:31
diddledanI guess they need yet another new barge20:32
Scorpiansproblem is they cant save to much fuel or its wasted. they have to cary that reserve fuel up.  and coming down its controled by fins, last time it crashed as a fin failed.  if you watched the tests it full powers about 5m off the ground. if its not timed perfect or a wave hits the boat and pushes it up could be difference of crash and land.20:33
Scorpiansthey should stick to there 2nd idea of landing on land.20:33
diddledanwhy do they call them missiles when these days they rarely miss?20:33
shaunoI just imagine one guy at the back of the office jumping up and shouting "yeah,BULLSEYE".  and everyone else slowly turning to stare at him20:34
diddledanlol, that gave me a jolly good laugh20:35
diddledandon't you love when you laugh out loud and feel an idiot because you're on your own with nobody nearby to hear you20:35
shaunono.  I live on the internet.  I feel awkward when there *are* other people to hear me doing a goofy impression20:36
diddledangrr, git is seriously weeing me off right now. I can't get it to push to company's git repo20:37
diddledanit helpfully says: Write failed: Broken pipe20:38
shaunoisn't that ssh?20:38
diddledanaye, I think it's the ssh side that's the issue, yes20:38
shaunoI mean, there's no reason it'd be unique to ssh; but I know ssh creates that exact message, and suspect it's mayhaps not a coincidence20:39
diddledanyup, it's defo ssh20:39
diddledanbut as to how to fix it. pas d'idée20:39
shaunothat's generally where the docs give you "contact your system administrator"  :)20:40
shaunocan you ssh to the same box ordinarily?  (eg, should you be able to?)20:40
diddledanyeah, I hate that when I'm the admin20:40
diddledanI should be able to, but I can't - same error20:41
shaunoperfect.  add -vvvv when you try to ssh without git, and you should get more feedback than you could ever want20:41
diddledandebug1: Requesting no-more-sessions@openssh.com20:42
Scorpianswhens 04-15 out20:43
diddledanit seems to authenticate, then get down to spawning the shell which ends with: debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 0 rmax 3276820:44
diddledanthen after a delay it prints the broken pipemessage20:44
diddledandoes ssh use more than a single connection?20:46
diddledane.g. like ftp20:46
shaunogood lord no20:46
diddledanso all comms go over the initial connection attempt?20:47
shaunoI believe so20:47
diddledanis just I got two internet addresses which are round-robin for outgoing connections to load balance between two ISPs20:48
diddledana single connection shouldn't hop tho20:48
diddledanand I also set destination port of 22 to always go out a single route as an attempt to fix this20:49
intrbizdiddledan: SSH channels are multiplexed down one SSH connection, channels in SSH are part of the procol, EG: shell channel, command channel, etc20:54
diddledanintrbiz: that's what I thought20:55
diddledanintrbiz: which suggests that my load-balancing shouldn't affect it20:55
diddledanI can ssh other hosts fine20:55
intrbizdiddledan: can you ssh, eg: ssh git@host to the server you are pushing too? (things like gitlab will give a MOTD etc)20:56
intrbizdiddledan: what error do you get when you try that?20:58
intrbizdo you have access to the server logs?20:58
diddledannot without ssh20:59
intrbizcan you ssh via another host?20:59
diddledanerr.. why yes20:59
intrbizdiddledan: ssh via the other host and look at the server logs, might have some pointers21:00
diddledanit seems syslog is dead but auth.log shows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10823929/21:05
diddledandead syslog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10823933/21:06
intrbizdiddledan: has your disk gone read only?21:07
intrbizdiddledan: what is in dmesg?21:08
diddledanhmm, there's some OOMs21:09
shaunodf & df -i ?21:09
shauno(syslog not having a fd is just kinda creepy)21:10
intrbizdiddledan: probably worth rebooting the box then, OOM tends to equal lots of instability21:10
diddledanI don't have the access to fix it if it doesn't come back tho21:10
intrbizI've seen syslog get killed by OOM killer all to often before21:10
diddledanI'll email the system owner21:11
intrbizdiddledan: what git mangement stuff are you running?21:11
diddledanright now I can kill-off several seemingly excess ssh: git processes21:11
diddledanwe're running gitolite21:11
diddledanthe issue with syslog seems to be that /dev is full21:25
diddledanthis is an ancient gentoo21:25
diddledanit can't be upgraded either21:25
intrbizdiddledan: sounds like its time for some TLC21:27
intrbizdiddledan: move to gitlab?21:28
diddledannot my machine21:28
diddledanthere's a plan to move to gitlab  but it never seemed to happen21:28
diddledangitlab was installed and populated and then.. nada.21:29
intrbizdiddledan: ah21:29
shaunodev is full?21:30
shaunoI assume something's writing to a device that never existed, so they're actually just filling a file?21:30
diddledanshauno: no idea21:30
shaunowell, look for huge files in /dev  lol21:31
diddledanaye. tty1221:31
shaunothat's actually the kinda thing I'd do.  have syslog logging to a tty, etc21:32
shaunobut you kinda need a device that exists.  especially now with tmpfs, devfs, etc .. you're filling a ramdisk21:32
diddledanyup, it seems syslog-ng is set to log to /dev/tty1221:33
shaunoI know it's not your box .. but I'd move that somewhere else (the existing file, so you can slap someone with it).  and see how much sanity is restored just like magic21:34
shaunoI mean, not logging there, or creating the device would be nice.  but if you're treading on someopne else's toes, at least letting it live until morning is nice21:35
diddledanI just deleted the file and stopped the syslog from trying to recreate it :-D21:36
diddledanI wonder if that will fix the ssh problem, too21:36
shaunoheh, that works.  I don't know what liberties you're allowed to take with the machine :)21:36
shaunoonly one way to find out?21:36
shauno(but it's probably related, if dev is full you can't create a new /dev/pts/foo21:36
diddledanseems not to have fixed the ssh :-(21:37
shaunooh well.  point the logging somewhere sane and you can start troubleshooting that without guesswork21:38
diddledanabsolutely zero helpful messages :-(21:44
intrbizdiddledan: are the gitolite processes taking ages to run? is the SSH connection dieing because gitolite has not responded quick enough?21:46
diddledanintrbiz: it seemsthe ssh connections are hanging around after the timeout on the client21:47
diddledane.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/10824088/21:47
intrbizdiddledan: you could try adding ServerAliveInterval 60 option in your git config for the host21:48
diddledanok, I think there's a problem with virgin media22:04
diddledanswitching my ssh to go via sky instead works fine22:04
diddledanit's either that or my config for routing ssh to virgin was messed22:06
diddledanI can flip it back and see22:06
diddledanok, flipping it back also worked so I'm guessing my loadbalancing must be a mess22:11
diddledanI've added some more rules which should help with connection-stickiness22:12
diddledanit seems that my previous rules weren't keeping a connection stuck to the wan it started on22:12
shaunoso, you broked it, and the fact the server was all kinds of purple was just incidental?22:13
diddledanat least the server is less broke than it was after my forey22:14
shaunowell, I guess this is normal if you use gentoo on servers22:17
shaunothey're probably all messed up, you just never look :)22:17
diddledantoo scared to look morelike22:17
diddledanyou know they're misconfigured up the wotsit but if you don't look you won't be tempted to try to fix it22:18
=== ahayzen_ is now known as ahayzen
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away

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