[05:28] <mapps> hi guys
[05:30] <Azelphur> Hmm, playing with pulseaudio over the network. I've got it running but it stutters like hell. My first thought was network throughput issues but the server is on ethernet, and the client is around a meter away from the router, I can shove 7MB/sec through the connection and pulse seems to only want ~300KB/sec, any ideas?
[05:30] <Azelphur> Feels like it needs a buffer or something
[05:34] <mapps> pulseaudio? you streaming audio?
[05:48] <Azelphur> mapps, yup, I got it working reasonably well now, still a tiny bit of stuttering but it only seems to be firefox that stutters
[05:48] <Azelphur> I'm calling it a win. :)
[05:49] <Azelphur> mapps, out on holiday so I got my two laptops, one of which runs my IM stuff while I am working on my main, pulse streaming from the IM laptop to the main one and synergy too, \o/
[05:50] <mapps> what are you streaming/what do you use to stream and what you use to listen
[05:51] <mapps> i thought pulseaudio was just to do with normal sound not streaming..sure id heard of it before
[05:51] <Azelphur> pulseaudio is the answer to all those questions
[05:51] <mapps> hm
[05:51] <mapps> so you can stream say mp3 using it?
[05:51] <Azelphur> mapps, any app that makes sound on my little laptop comes out of my big laptop
[05:52] <Azelphur> open VLC and play a MP3, the audio will come out of the other laptop
[05:52] <mapps> ahh ok
[05:52] <mapps> i get it
[05:52] <Azelphur> I'll video demo actually because it's cool, one sec
[05:52] <mapps> why doi you want it like this really?
[05:52] <Azelphur> so I can hear when I get messages on my little laptop?
[05:52] <mapps> so its not just for streaming music..am i right that pulseaudio is to di with audio on local machine too
[05:52] <mapps> ok:)
[05:53] <mapps> IM being like Jabber/ICQ/ whatever people use now i guess.:P
[05:56] <Azelphur> IRC is IM :)
[05:56] <mapps> ahh
[05:58] <Azelphur> gah, slow US internet connection, feel like I'm in a third world country :P
[05:59] <Azelphur> gonna take 10 minutes to upload a 20 second video
[06:06] <mapps> hah
[06:06] <mapps> where are you?
[06:06] <Azelphur> Just south of LA
[06:07] <mapps> cool..how long far
[06:07] <Azelphur> until may
[06:09] <mapps> nice
[06:09] <mapps> with work?
[06:09] <Azelphur> yea, here for work
[06:10] <mapps> nice
[06:10] <mapps> couldnt you have done the work remotely in theory? or just not possible at all
[06:12] <Azelphur> mapps, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6Ply8QS8M there we go
[06:12] <Azelphur> mapps, it is, but I come out every now and again just to hang and this time we have a bit of a deal to seal
[06:14] <mapps> cool:)
[06:14] <mapps> going to any cool places whilst there
[06:20] <knightwise> morning peeps
[06:37] <Azelphur> mapps, maybe universal or something, nothing planned
[07:18] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:19] <DJones> Can anybody recommend a HP colour printer/scanner/fax etc that prints up to A3
[07:21]  * knightwise hates printers
[07:38] <directhex_> DJones: that's not a big selection
[07:40] <directhex_> DJones: HP multi-function printers that can do A3 and are sold in the UK: OfficeJet 7500, .
[07:43] <DJones> Yeah, that was about the only one I could find
[07:44] <DJones> I think problem solved anyway, just getting a cheap a4 printer to last 3 months until we can change computer systems to one that will actually allow us to select which paper tray we want to print from on the main printer
[08:12] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:15] <DJones> Moin
[08:21] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:21] <MooDoo> howdy howdy howdy
[08:34] <bigcalm> popey: how's GTA V?
[08:38] <MooDoo> bigcalm: my mate is chomping at the bit, he gets his copy delivered today and he's at work.
[08:39] <bigcalm> MooDoo: given a good internet connection, eager beavers like us downloaded via Steam on the 7th
[08:43] <MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah bit big isn't it?
[08:44] <bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/585531979665448960
[08:46] <bigcalm> Happy GTA V day, JamesTait
[08:46] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Equal Pay Day! :-D
[08:46] <bigcalm> :P
[08:47] <foobarry> :|
[08:47] <JamesTait> bigcalm, o/
[09:10] <davmor2> JamesTait: no really not happening unless we all get the same money as the boss ;)
[09:12] <foobarry> and animals too?
[09:12] <foobarry> do they get fair pay?
[09:13] <zmoylan-pi> or is it because women usually are paid less equal pay day?
[09:15] <directhex_> the latter
[09:16] <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, yes, to do with the gender gap, and promoting equal pay for equal work.
[09:19] <MooDoo> bigcalm: don't forget the 5gb day 1 patch for gta V wow
[09:22] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:23] <directhex_> MooDoo: only 5gb? small by modern standards
[09:23] <directhex_> MooDoo: also, gta5 doesn't work if your windows username is not strictly alphanumeric, e.g. has accents in it or punctuation :p
[09:27] <awilkins> https://twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/587840969598373888 <<?!"?
[09:28] <directhex_> awilkins: modern gaming
[09:30] <bigcalm> Eugh
[09:30] <MooDoo> will get xbox one version i think lol
[09:31] <awilkins> If you use that feature, it should post a screenshot on your twitter feed with a comment that says "Look at me! I'm a TOTAL LAMER!"
[09:43] <zmoylan-pi> a complete leroy jenkins
[09:48] <foobarry> awilkins: isn't that just the same as the rich kids at school buying a complete pack of all the stickers in teh sticker album?
[09:49] <foobarry> i but yeah DLC sucks, and EA are the epitomy of it
[09:50] <awilkins> In that it's infuriating and it spoils the achievements of those with skill? Yes....
[09:58] <Myrtti> kek, BBC Cambridgeshire retweeted my tweet and then undid it X-D
[10:07] <popey> bigcalm: good fun :)
[10:08] <popey> bigcalm: didn't get to play it until ~40 mins past midnight as it had to decrypt/unpack 60GB on spinning rust
[10:08] <bigcalm> popey: that's what I'll have to wait for when I get home about 8pm tonight as well then
[10:09] <bigcalm> popey: Did you get to choose your name in the game?
[10:14] <popey> uh
[10:14] <popey> dunno
[10:17] <bigcalm> Ah, doh
[10:17] <bigcalm> Names aren't needed until playing online
[10:18] <bigcalm> I'm just used to Hat Films / YogsCast playing online
[10:19] <zmoylan-pi> go for a name that is the epitome of british driving... noddy :-D
[10:19] <bigcalm> I wanna go home!
[10:25] <popey> bigcalm: my GPU is unable to run it at a decent res or framerate
[10:26] <popey> So I anticipate buying another one rather soon
[10:26] <foobarry> i bet a console is cheaper than a gpu
[10:27] <awilkins> Hmm, you can get the next-tier-down GPU for £100-200
[10:27] <awilkins> Usually
[10:27] <awilkins> And that will make everything go faster.
[10:27] <zmoylan-pi> wow, i intend replacing my main system for around €200 :-)
[10:27] <awilkins> New console only makes new console games faster. And they cost a bomb.
[10:27] <popey> I bet a console can't do what my pc does
[10:28] <foobarry> console avoids the GPU race
[10:28]  * awilkins shrugs
[10:28] <popey> GPU race allows for trickle down economics
[10:28] <awilkins> Haven't changed my GPU in years
[10:28] <popey> My son can have my old GPU
[10:28] <popey> me either
[10:28] <awilkins> Forgotten which model I have actually
[10:28] <popey> 14/08/2011 was when I bought this GTX 460 from overclockers according to my email.
[10:28] <awilkins> It runs Elite : Dangerous between 30 and 60 frames at 1920x1080 ergo it is good enough
[10:29] <popey> maybe not.
[10:29] <popey> Mine runs GTA V at 1366x768 at 30fps :S
[10:29] <bigcalm> My home system has a "nVidia GeForce GTX 660" no idea how it'll fair
[10:29] <awilkins> GTX 560 Ti on the 12th Feb 2011
[10:29] <popey> not a lot better than mine I think
[10:30] <bigcalm> Poop
[10:30] <foobarry> i don't have a home system anymore
[10:30] <foobarry> just a laptop and a microserver
[10:30] <bigcalm> "GeForce GTX 750 Ti" in my work workstation
[10:30] <bigcalm> Maybe I should add a 2nd drive and install GameOS on it
[10:30] <awilkins> My next GPU will probably be part of my Next Big Upgrade
[10:30] <popey> heh
[10:31] <awilkins> I'll need something that can do 60Hz in 3D stereo in most games at whatever res the Oculus Rift CV1 comes out at
[10:31] <awilkins> foobarry, Running a Pi2 as a microserver
[10:31] <foobarry> RAIDed disk?
[10:32] <awilkins> foobarry, No
[10:32] <awilkins> But it's not critical
[10:32] <awilkins> If I start needing heavy storage I'll defer that to my NAS box
[10:32] <popey> hah, all the broadcasts in steam are gta 5 today
[10:32] <awilkins> That has MySQL and a bunch of other apps available for it's default OS as "apps"
[10:33] <awilkins> NAS has a RAID 0 array of 2x 4TB WD reds
[10:33] <awilkins> Oh, sorry
[10:33] <awilkins> RAID 1
[10:34] <awilkins> RAID 0 wouldn't be much use
[10:35] <davmor2> popey: it wouldn't be an excuse to buy the latest dell that you are looking for would it?
[10:36] <TwistedLucidity> Question: Is there an easy way to automagically keep (say) the last 3 kernel versions, rather than have them all hang around and cause problems when running updates?
[10:37] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: sudo apt-get autoremove
[10:37] <TwistedLucidity> So...so run that prior to every update?
[10:38] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: should leave you with Current kernel/new kernel and original kernel iirc
[10:38] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: OK, seems simple enough. Just have to remember to do it!
[10:39] <TwistedLucidity> It's easy enough to fix, but seeing "Kernel updates failed. Panic, human. PANIC NOW!" is never fun. :-)
[10:39]  * bigcalm comforts himself by watching the GTA V videos on Steam
[10:39] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: just alias apt-get-dist to sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y && sudo apt-get autoremove  done ;)
[10:39] <popey> wow, steam update which hits you in the face with a GTA 5 support note
[10:39] <popey> windows user names have to be A-Z, a-z and 0-9 only, anything else and GTA 5 won't install
[10:39] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Heh....I knew this was the place to ask
[10:39] <popey> davmor2: no. :)
[10:40]  * TwistedLucidity really should look into Landscape or something
[10:40] <popey> \o/ landscape
[10:40] <popey> free for 10 machines
[10:40] <popey> (and 10 VMs)
[10:40] <foobarry> wonder if a bug or anti le^e€½²€3t speak
[10:40] <TwistedLucidity> Aye, which is why I should look into it. Or something anyway. "sudo apt...." is not a big deal, but manually having to hit a number of machines becomes, well, a drag
[10:41] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: landscape makes it much easier and really don't run that it may break your system :)  but if you run sudo apt-get autoremove on 14.04 + it will remove old kernel images
[10:41] <ali1234> how many GTA games have they made now and they still can't even parse a string correctly?
[10:41] <popey> heh
[10:41] <TwistedLucidity> 3 physical boxes, 1 always-on VM (maybe more soon).
[10:42] <popey> i added my mums machine to my landscape
[10:42] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I do it now as it saves me manually culling them to make /boot have enough free space for the new kernels :)
[10:42] <popey> makes life easier so I can remotely do stuff to her machine even now she's changed ISP and I have no SSH access
[10:43] <TwistedLucidity> That reminds me, I really need to have the router poll the WAN IP and update the DNS records is needs be.
[10:43] <TwistedLucidity> Or if Landscape can do it, that'll be fine too.
[10:43] <awilkins> popey, There's an idea
[10:44] <awilkins> Does 14.04 support it?
[10:44] <TwistedLucidity> A project to look into over the next few months once everything else is out of the way. Yeesh. Roll-on retirement!
[10:44] <TwistedLucidity> In ~35 years.
[10:44] <awilkins> Although TBH I think I have mum on the dynamic DNS + SSH port forward
[10:44]  * TwistedLucidity starts sobbing
[10:45] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Is your router running something you can put a cron job on?
[10:45] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, I'm using duckdns and all you have to do is fetch a particular URL periodically
[10:45] <TwistedLucidity> DD-WRT, even has some pre-configured muck for some companies. But MythicBeasts isn't one - so yeah, need to slap in a wee script.
[10:45] <awilkins> I have my CNAME records point at the duckdns names and I'm all good
[10:46] <TwistedLucidity> Never heard of DuckDNS before. DDG folks?
[10:47] <awilkins> Don't think so
[10:48] <awilkins> It's just some guys who did it for learning purposes
[10:48] <popey> awilkins: yes
[10:49] <awilkins> No association with DDG : http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1muz4q/duckdns_a_completely_free_as_in_beer_ddns_solution/ccd6z0x
[10:49] <awilkins> (quote : some guy on the internet claiming to be the DuckDNS guy)
[10:50] <popey> bigcalm: someone was live streaming their gta 5 setup last night on launch, and left their key on screen, someone stole it immediately.
[10:50] <awilkins> Ouch
[10:50] <czajkowski> so who's coming for drinks next week ! http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3087-release-drinks/
[10:52] <awilkins> Boo, we need drinkies in Manchester
[10:53] <popey> do it
[10:53] <Myrtti> I'd consider if I hadn't just been to London to vote and apply for a new passport
[10:55] <bigcalm> :(
[10:55] <bigcalm> popey: :(
[10:56] <awilkins> Have DMed @madlabuk to see if there's any possibility of Ubuntu Drinkies next Thursday
[10:56] <awilkins> They already seem to have a Java meetup and a meeting of their Space Programme
[10:57] <awilkins> So I'll probably be heading there that night anyway!
[11:13] <directhex_> new car buying is exciting, but delays are frustrating
[11:16] <foobarry> what u buying directhex_
[11:16] <directhex_> A CAR :O
[11:17] <directhex_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2iThBoxYbY
[11:17] <bigcalm> A Volt!
[11:18] <foobarry> are they electric/hybrid?
[11:18] <bigcalm> Fully elec
[11:18] <foobarry> i keep nearly getting run over by electrics
[11:18] <foobarry> living in surburbia you often cross quiet streets using your ears
[11:19] <foobarry> especially cul de sacs
[11:19] <zmoylan-pi> a habit you'll unlearn or darwin will sort it out
[11:19] <foobarry> hoping they would get a noise added to them
[11:19] <foobarry> also,
[11:20] <foobarry> stepping out from the kerb and a guy decided to pull away from kerb without indicating
[11:20] <popey> directhex_: that looks quite nice
[11:20] <foobarry> i didn't know his intention or able to second guess because the engine was not making noise
[11:20] <directhex_> foobarry: "it's complicated"
[11:20] <directhex_> foobarry: at low speeds, it's all electric
[11:20] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Always look. Both ways. Push-cyclists are quiet and they can kill peds as well.
[11:21] <foobarry> sure, but in the case of driver in car deciding to drive away from kerbn suddenly, i had no way of knowing
[11:21] <foobarry> if i had heard engine i would have beeen aware of driver in car etc
[11:21] <directhex_> foobarry: at high speeds, it's PE hybrid like a prius. at low speeds if you forgot to charge it (or ran it flat), it's all electric w/ petrol generator
[11:21] <awilkins> Have discovered that my car allowance gets paid regardless of whether I spend it on car
[11:21] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: In that scenario, true. Which is why you throw yourself on to the bonnet and then sue them.
[11:22] <awilkins> This is almost disappointing because now I have no incentive to drive anything nicer
[11:22] <foobarry> or they would drive away
[11:22] <zmoylan-pi> rocket powered roller skates awilkins :-)
[11:22] <foobarry> lawn mower
[11:22] <awilkins> I thought about leasing a Tesla but it's a MITE over my budget
[11:22] <directhex_> foobarry: https://youtu.be/hbhIB1oDoxU?t=167
[11:23] <zmoylan-pi> do reliant robin have a leccy version yet? :-)
[11:26] <foobarry> can anyone recommend a garden fork that won't break easily?
[11:27] <zmoylan-pi> how many forks have you broken?
[11:27] <foobarry> 1
[11:28] <zmoylan-pi> then it might have been the fork or it might have been you using it wrong.  get another and wait
[11:28] <foobarry> but reading the reviews it seems lot of other people do too
[11:28] <zmoylan-pi> because people use them wrong
[11:28] <popey> or people leave them outside and they rot
[11:28] <foobarry> not sure whether to get teh £15 one or splash out on the wilkinson sword stainless steel one
[11:28] <zmoylan-pi> they stick them in compacted soil and try to break the soil by applying pressure to the fork
[11:29] <foobarry> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004WJ0SJI
[11:30] <foobarry> or maybe a cheaper carbon steel one :S
[11:32] <foobarry> you never know what reviewers on the net are doing
[11:32] <foobarry> or how crazy/stupid they are
[11:33] <davmor2> directhex_: don't buy that one you know pronouncing xul is too close to saying zool ;)
[11:33] <zmoylan-pi> at least it's not the beetlejuice model
[11:33] <directhex_> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7MAacSPNM
[11:34] <davmor2> directhex_: there is no chevy only xul
[11:35] <directhex_> sigh @ focus in unity
[11:46] <popey> https://yougov.co.uk/#/centre GRAPHS!
[11:50] <Laney> barely anybody is bothering to campaign around here
[11:50] <Laney> safe seat, safe ward
[11:50] <Laney> zzzz
[11:54] <popey> same here
[11:54] <popey> had a letter through the door from a councillor saying sorry he'd missed us (we were in)
[11:56] <zmoylan-pi> some sort of pi activated spotlight pointing at the doorstep with fanfare music... :-)
[11:57] <ali1234> dueling banjos?
[11:58] <Laney> i tweeted some of them asking if there's a hustings
[11:58] <Laney> no reply
[12:00] <Laney> might do a chrisccoulson
[12:01] <chrisccoulson> What have I done? *hides*
[12:01] <popey> what has he done?
[12:03] <Laney> oh
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> Laney, oh, are you referring to how I voted in May?
[12:05] <Laney> sure am
[12:05] <chrisccoulson> aha :)
[12:05] <Laney> it's incredibly tedious to page down your tweets back to then
[12:05] <chrisccoulson> I'll probably be voting the same way again
[12:05] <Laney> twitter seems to have given up giving me new ones
[12:06] <popey> chrisccoulson: how did you vote?
[12:06] <chrisccoulson> Laney, is this what you're looking for? https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/469437833179316224
[12:07] <popey> haha
[12:07] <Laney> :D
[12:07] <ali1234> wait, why do the parties get to write a tagline?
[12:08] <chrisccoulson> ali1234, it makes the ballot paper larger, which means it's easier to draw a cock on it using a black marker pen
[12:10] <chrisccoulson> Laney, what constituency are you in?
[12:10] <czajkowski> popey: dont suppose you know if the bluetooth on the Ubuntu phone will work with a selfie stick ?
[12:10] <popey> haha
[12:10] <Laney> chrisccoulson: Nottingham East
[12:10] <popey> Not sure I want to know
[12:11] <popey> czajkowski: almost certainly not
[12:11] <popey> czajkowski: file a bug :)
[12:11] <ali1234> chrisccoulson: there's zero chance of labour not winning nottingham east
[12:11] <MooDoo> Laney: chrisccoulson gedling borough here
[12:13] <chrisccoulson> Laney, aha, I feel a bit sorry for you. Chris Leslie is quite an unremarkable MP
[12:13] <czajkowski> popey: well I'll get one and test it then I can at least file the bug knowing I've tried before I file it
[12:13] <popey> czajkowski: i think we have bluetooth configured to only allow headphones / speakers right now
[12:13] <popey> that can change
[12:14] <popey> but the camera app doesn't have the facility, so yeah, test and file a bug
[12:14] <czajkowski> will do
[12:15] <czajkowski> wanted to use the phone at mobile week NYC
[12:15] <czajkowski> would have been a great way to demo it working
[12:15] <czajkowski> popey: next co working day we may have folks from Xamarin joining us :)
[12:16] <czajkowski> can be all about the mobile
[12:16] <czajkowski> the story of my life right now
[12:19] <czajkowski> I swear my laptop has a mind of its own today. keeps going up in volume and I'm not touching it
[12:21]  * popey looks at directhex_ 
[12:21] <directhex_> wot?
[12:21] <popey> be nice to have xamarin available on linux..
[12:22] <popey> (and ubuntu phone)
[12:22] <directhex_> yes, it would.
[12:22] <popey> we can dream...
[12:22] <czajkowski> There is a Xamarin and COuchbase workshop next month free to all if anyone is interested  http://www.meetup.com/Couchbase-London/events/221820591/
[12:23] <directhex_> popey: i think it'll be an easier sell for me once steam machines launch
[12:23] <directhex_> i can push the indie gamedev angle, via monogame
[12:26] <popey> Right
[12:26] <popey> That's later in the year?
[12:26] <popey> I see controllers go on sale in November.
[12:30] <directhex_> everything is november
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> crimbo is coming...
[12:38] <zmoylan-pi> only a few 100 shopping days left
[12:40] <popey> http://www.xmasclock.com/
[12:40] <popey> 254
[12:41] <foobarry> new features in 15.04?
[12:41] <zmoylan-pi> see, nearly into the christmas rush!! :-)
[12:43]  * popey updates his amazon wishlist for christmas
[12:43] <zmoylan-pi> only summer, back to school and halloween sales to go
[12:44] <foobarry> plasma5 looks like kde4 without the cashew
[12:44] <davmor2> popey: are you on vivid?
[12:45] <davmor2> popey: desktop
[12:46] <foobarry> 5. Locally Integrated Menus are now default.
[12:46] <foobarry> ^^ global menu is gone?
[12:47] <ali1234> foobarry: does that mean i have to stop trolling KDE users by calling it "the peanut"?
[12:48] <foobarry> if you can find any ,it seems so
[12:50] <foobarry> 15.04 looks like the lowest key release in ages
[12:52] <popey> davmor2: yup
[12:53] <davmor2> popey: did you update today yet?
[12:53] <popey> yes
[12:53] <popey> a few minutes ago
[12:54] <davmor2> popey: can you press AltGr and see if it displays the menus for you please
[12:54] <popey> it doesnt
[12:54] <popey> oh, 22 more updates to go
[12:54] <popey> a thousand kde packages
[12:55] <popey> davmor2: i haven't logged out or rebooted for ages, so I may not be a good gauge of anything
[12:55] <popey>  13:55:17 up 5 days, 17:34,  4 users,  load average: 0.81, 0.65, 0.70
[12:55] <foobarry> elementary freya got released \o/
[12:55] <popey> don't forget to pay for your iso!
[12:56] <foobarry> i was going to contribute actually :D
[12:56] <foobarry> or maybe sponsor a bug
[12:58] <foobarry> https://www.bountysource.com/
[12:58] <popey> haha http://askubuntu.com/questions/607935/what-determines-permissions-in-dev
[12:58] <popey> no answers for 2 days.
[12:59] <popey> I stick a "free internet points" bounty on it, and get instant answers! :D
[12:59] <foobarry> yay for free internet points
[12:59] <ali1234> because questions without bounties get buried in seconds
[13:05] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Ah, but are any of them correct?
[13:06] <popey> dunno, need to figure that out
[13:06] <ali1234> permissions in dev are determined by udev btw
[13:06] <TwistedLucidity> Still, a wrong answer is probably still better than the OP replying with "It's OK, I fixed it." and then never saying how...
[13:06] <popey> well yes, because it's triggered discussion on a couple of answers
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> There should be a special place in hell for people like that
[13:07] <ali1234> the answer by serg is the correct one
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Why not just read the manual?
[13:07]  * TwistedLucidity starts running
[13:07] <ali1234> read the manual for udev? hahahahahahhhaha
[13:08] <popey> thought so
[13:08] <ali1234> implying it even exists
[13:08] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: A code without documentation is poor code.
[13:08] <ali1234> i agree
[13:09] <ali1234> the really funny part is that even lennart himself couldn't write a correct udev rule for pulseaudio
[13:10] <ali1234> but his attempted worked correctly for years due to undefined behaviour
[13:10] <ali1234> then one day it broke
[13:11] <ali1234> but apparently all of systemd is documented and has stability guarantees /s
[13:11] <TwistedLucidity> I hope the documentation has been tested....
[13:12] <ali1234> the documentation for udev is basically equivalent to bad autogenerated doxygen stuff - it tells you absolutely nothing
[13:13] <ali1234> essentially it gives you a list of valid keywords and identifiers and tells you nothing about what they do
[13:13] <TwistedLucidity> "getFoo(): This method gets a foo and returns foo." with no explanation on what a "foo" is, why you want one or where to use it.
[13:13] <TwistedLucidity> I hate things like that
[13:14] <TwistedLucidity> Idea: have a second coder write the unit tests based solely off the comments....
[13:14]  * TwistedLucidity cackles evily
[13:16] <ali1234> popey: btw the person asking why you think permissions are wrong has a good point
[13:16] <ali1234> /dev/input/event* should only be readable by root
[13:17] <ali1234> mumble had better have a damn good reason for doing so, because it looks awfully like malware
[13:18] <ali1234> i would hope it's for something like "push to talk" when a game has grabbed all keyboard input from X
[13:21] <ali1234> the good news is that with udev you can control permissions down to individual devices. so for push-to-talk you could get one of those usb buttons (ie a 1 key keyboard) and only allow mumble to access that
[13:21] <ali1234> so yeah udev isn't all bad
[13:22] <shauno> reminds me, I was looking for a way for python to grab keyboard input in a background process
[13:23] <zmoylan-pi> no security implications there...
[13:23] <shauno> :)
[13:23] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, I hate doxygen
[13:24] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, set a policy of having documented methods on one of my last projects
[13:24] <shauno> (it's not really an environment with any security implications for input.  the 'keyboard' is a lirc dongle - IR receiver that presents itself as a keyboard to the OS)
[13:24] <awilkins> Some smartarse deployed Doxygen and ka-pow! Documentation.
[13:24] <popey> ali1234: yeah.
[13:24] <awilkins> Or it's Java equivalent
[13:25] <popey> ali1234: it is for push to talk, yes. mumble couldn't see my keypresses until I fiddled with that.
[13:25] <ali1234> nothing wrong with doxygen and similar when used correctly
[13:25] <awilkins> Problem was the classes and methods had some of the most obtuse and confusing names possible
[13:25] <ali1234> problem is nobody ever does
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Or comments that make perfect sense at the time, but don't 3 years later.
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> And if you do fully elaborate methods in the docs (or link to the full elaboration), when the code changes people don't update the docs
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> Or they move the docs
[13:27] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, My rule of thumb for any comment is - can you make the code clear enough not to need it
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: That does help, but it often not enough
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> I work on a system where you can export documents. The can have multiple 'pages', linked content, reditions and so on.
[13:29] <TwistedLucidity> An export is a non-trivial operation for various reasons.
[13:29] <TwistedLucidity> So the method "doc.export" has a bunch of flags for which version, rendition etc
[13:29] <TwistedLucidity> The code is perfectly clear.
[13:30] <TwistedLucidity> The interations between those switches and the edge cases? No so much
[13:30] <awilkins> Class diagram from one of the projects I despaired of : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/refset-classes.png
[13:30] <TwistedLucidity> Or why the defaults are the way they are.
[13:30] <awilkins> That one is LESS complicated than the diagram for the single class at the top
[13:31] <awilkins> Which has around 200 methods accumulated from about 12 interfaces it implements
[13:31] <awilkins> The methods are hidden because they are redonkulous
[13:32] <TwistedLucidity> It doesn't matter how bad it is, so long as you follow the process to create badness. ISO9001 approval!
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I fear for your unit tests......
[13:33] <awilkins> Aha, found the class at the top : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/ConceptComponent.png
[13:33] <bashrc> :)
[13:34] <awilkins> The worst thing is, it's generic (  type params R, C)
[13:35] <awilkins> And param C is    "C extends ConceptComponent<R, C> "
[13:35] <awilkins> Yes, this class is it's own grandpa
[13:36] <awilkins> And it's abstract. So any instance of it also it's own grandpa while also being a child of it's own grandpa
[13:37] <awilkins> Grandpa being 2,860 lines of what seems to be mostly type casting...
[13:38] <awilkins> And it implements eleven (11!!) interfaces
[13:42] <TwistedLucidity> Classception
[13:42] <awilkins> Yeah, pretty much
[13:42] <awilkins> I've written generics code that makes co-workers wince
[13:42] <awilkins> This makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry for mummy until the bad code goes away
[13:42] <TwistedLucidity> Java is becoming a lumbering beast. Time it was torn down and reborn
[13:43] <awilkins> Happilyu I
[13:43] <TwistedLucidity> Well, I guess it has. dotNet.
[13:43] <zmoylan-pi> java 2: this time you'll cry
[13:43] <awilkins> am no longer responsible for any aspect of this project!
[13:43] <awilkins> I like C# as a language
[13:43] <awilkins> But I think Java has nicked most of the good bits from it
[13:43] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: java could do with sheding some of the legacy cruft
[13:43] <intrbiz> .net is just as bloated now
[13:44] <TwistedLucidity> Speaking of Java...I have to fingure out why the runtime method signatures seem to bear no relation to the source. I suspect I have goosed Maven.....
[13:44]  * zmoylan-pi is writing a small script in perl at the mo...
[13:44]  * TwistedLucidity longs to return to COBOL
[13:44] <zmoylan-pi> i find perl is very like basic of 8 bit days...
[13:44] <intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: really?
[13:45] <directhex_> god i hate java dev
[13:46] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, if the method sigs are wrong, then you have the wrong combination of src and runtime
[13:46] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, most of my scripts look very like basic code i would write
[13:46] <TwistedLucidity> Java is OK server-side (could be better, but it's kinda OK). Front-end Java makes me want to cry
[13:46] <awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Like, totally different versions
[13:46] <awilkins> Yeah, the best thing about .NET is the WIndows.Forms library
[13:46] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Yeah, I know. But all the timestamps match. This is what I get for having to work on 3 versions at onces and compile a patch.....
[13:47] <awilkins> And the designers - even the FOSS one (SharpDevelop) is a joy to use next to ANYTHING I've used for Java
[13:47] <awilkins> Proper round-tripping of code to form!
[13:47] <awilkins> GUI code in a separate file so you can concentrate on logic!
[13:48] <TwistedLucidity> Oh FFS....*there's* the problem!
[13:49] <directhex_> professionally, aaaaaAAAAAaaaaAAAaaaaAAAAAaaaAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAa java dev hurts
[13:49] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Err....GUI separation is just best practice, innit?
[13:49] <TwistedLucidity> directhex_: Pays the bills
[13:49] <directhex_> TwistedLucidity: it's nice when the IDE makes it easy without being restrictive
[13:50] <directhex_> TwistedLucidity: e.g. in monodevelop, i like being able to design complex widgets in code, and drag-and-drop them in the designer
[13:50] <TwistedLucidity> Having used IntelliJ and Eclipse for a while and whilst Eclipse is dreadful and IntelliJ has very nice features (like a functioning Maven integration)....Eclipse is still better.
[13:50] <intrbiz> one avoids GUI work at all cost
[13:50] <ali1234> that sounds awesome
[13:50] <directhex_> eclipse is why i quit java dev in 2004.
[13:51] <awilkins> Eclipse is much better now
[13:51] <directhex_> "use eclipse, it is the best!" *tries* "OH GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR BRAIN RUN AWAAAAAAAAAAAAY"
[13:51] <awilkins> Eclipse + Maven is quite tolerable
[13:51] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: m2e works fine
[13:51] <TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: m2e is terrible.
[13:51] <TwistedLucidity> Barely functional
[13:51] <awilkins> *developing* for eclipse.... well, hopefully e4 is easier
[13:51] <awilkins> m2e is OK in Luna
[13:52] <awilkins> The "no lifecycle plugin" thing gets old
[13:52] <ali1234> i've never been patient enough to wait for eclipse to load
[13:52] <TwistedLucidity> Have to manually add every plug-in to the correct lifecycle state in the super-pom or m2e barfs.
[13:52] <directhex_> i hate all these things
[13:52] <directhex_> i'd rather be writing c#
[13:52] <TwistedLucidity> Freedom hater :-P
[13:52] <awilkins> They should probably have a paper-cuts hackfest that fixes all the common ones
[13:53] <intrbiz> TBF nothing complicated in my POMs
[13:53] <TwistedLucidity> Oh, I am getting a kicking for the Maven stuff being way to slow
[13:53] <TwistedLucidity> We might revert to Ant at this rate
[13:54] <intrbiz> Ant is awful
[13:54] <TwistedLucidity> But it works
[13:54] <TwistedLucidity> For example - you can copy files!
[13:54] <foobarry> Dec is worse
[13:54] <TwistedLucidity> We want Maven for the dependency management, some of the plug-ins etc as they make life much, much easier.
[13:55] <TwistedLucidity> But we need to generate ~10 WARs from a single call, and it doesn't look like Maven can cope
[13:55] <TwistedLucidity> So that's multiple calls
[13:55] <TwistedLucidity> Hence too slow
[13:55] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: what is the difference in these WARs?
[13:56] <TwistedLucidity> Various deployment factors (backing systems - so different versions of the 'core' code, target web application etc).
[13:58] <TwistedLucidity> So at the moment, Maven compiles the WARs with the variations with the backing systems (all based on dependencies, Maven is awesome at that)
[13:58] <TwistedLucidity> Then Ant copies in the various configuration overlays that are needed for each web app server
[13:58] <TwistedLucidity> Then WARs it as required
[13:59] <TwistedLucidity> For my investigation, Maven simply cannot cope with the concept of copying a file from location A->B
[13:59] <TwistedLucidity> I also doubt it's possible to have it generator multiple WARs in a single hit; not looked at that yet
[13:59] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: it would be trivial to write a MOJO to do that
[14:00] <intrbiz> and yes I would like to kill whoever though calling them that was a good idea
[14:00] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: are you using modules to make up for 10 variants?
[14:00] <awilkins> Is doing this in the build system the best idea? - yeah
[14:01] <awilkins> That's just what I was going to say - sounds more like a job for Guice / Modules
[14:01] <TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: As far as possible, yes
[14:01] <TwistedLucidity> But there a few odds 'n sods which are just easier to yank from source control and spaff into the target folders.
[14:02] <awilkins> 'tis possible to do this
[14:02] <TwistedLucidity> The class, web templates, dependencies etc are all in Maven
[14:03] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: worst case, writing a custom packaging plugin is pretty easy
[14:03] <TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Might come to that. I think part of the problem is the Ant/Maven interface
[14:04]  * awilkins pukes in his mouth a bit at mixing Ant and Maven
[14:04] <awilkins> Yeah, it's horrible
[14:04] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: No choice
[14:04] <TwistedLucidity> We have *got* to use Ant
[14:04] <awilkins> The most seamless ways are to copy properties from Maven to Ant but it's a fiddle
[14:04] <awilkins> That could use some love, TBH
[14:05] <awilkins> Things that you would expect to "Just Work(tm)" don't
[14:05] <TwistedLucidity> If I call "ant precompile package deploy" that ends up being at least three separate calls into Maven. Each time Maven check the sourc etc etc
[14:05] <awilkins> Whoa, you're calling Maven from Ant??!
[14:05] <TwistedLucidity> I'd rather just do "mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=bar" or whatever and let it run
[14:06] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Yes
[14:06] <awilkins> And I thought calling Ant from Maven was icky...
[14:06] <TwistedLucidity> If I can convince people to ditch Ant at least for the Java stuff (we have dotNet and other stuff in the mix as well) then I'd be a happy man
[14:07] <TwistedLucidity> If I can get Maven to generate multiple results....which should be doable via profiles. Maybe.
[14:09] <awilkins> Should be able to do multiple executions
[14:10] <awilkins> Don't know if you can execute multiple profiles in parallel or even series (without just ... starting the job again)
[14:10] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Yeah, that's what we do now; multiples
[14:11] <TwistedLucidity> I was thinking of trying to multithread it. Once the assets are in Maven, it's really just a case of assembly. There is no need to re-check source etc.
[14:11] <awilkins> Break it up into multiple poms, one that installs the assets, one that assembles them?
[14:12] <TwistedLucidity> That could work, couldn't it?
[14:12] <awilkins> Give them a daddy POM for properties and version management, etc.
[14:12] <TwistedLucidity> The Ant (yes, yuck) could got "Thread 1: mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=1", "Thread 2: mvn war:exploded -Dfoo=2" and so forth
[14:13] <awilkins> Apparently you can also run multiple profiles
[14:13] <awilkins> But I don't know if it does them in parallel
[14:13] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: have you looked at the asembly plugin?
[14:14] <TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: Tried to. Couldn't understand it
[14:14] <TwistedLucidity> So gave up because I could get Ant to do what was needed in 5 minutes.
[14:14] <TwistedLucidity> Time is also a serious factor
[14:14] <TwistedLucidity> Says he, chatting on IRC.....
[14:14]  * TwistedLucidity is testing. Honest.
[14:14]  * awilkins has done assemblies before
[14:17] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: with the asemlby plugin you can easily copy in files etc to an archive
[14:17] <TwistedLucidity> Being able to parallelise stuff would be awesome
[14:17] <TwistedLucidity> intrbiz: That's what I thought, but it didn't seem to be easy. Not a simple case of "source -> destination"
[14:19] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: you specify via ant filesets what to include
[14:25] <foobarry> the builders took off and threw away my hozelock fitting on my garden tap
[14:25] <TwistedLucidity> I seem to recall it making zero sense when I read the Maven docs. <- See? someone who reads docs!
[14:25] <foobarry> what do i need to buy please?
[14:25] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: New builders
[14:26] <foobarry> they are albanian, maybe hozelock isn't a thing over there
[14:26] <foobarry> they also used my wifes facvourite dish to mix plaster
[14:26] <TwistedLucidity> Why did they not have their own plastic mixer-tub wotsit?
[14:27] <foobarry> all questions are null and void due to language barrier
[14:27] <TwistedLucidity> Although plaster can be removed - you might get lucky
[14:27] <foobarry> nope, long time ago
[14:27] <foobarry> and then they left it inthe garden
[14:28] <TwistedLucidity> Without wishing to rile you up...why did you hire builders you couldn't communicate with?
[14:29] <TwistedLucidity> I may be misunderstanding...
[14:29] <TwistedLucidity> I do that a lot.
[14:29] <TwistedLucidity> See: Maven assemblies
[14:29] <foobarry> i hired an essex man
[14:29] <foobarry> but his grunt workers are albanian
[14:29] <TwistedLucidity> Well, there's yer problem! :-)
[14:29] <foobarry> the modern hierarchy
[14:29] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, guess it's the way it goes.
[14:30] <TwistedLucidity> If you got the builder via "Trust-a-trader" or soemthing; complain
[14:30] <foobarry> they also didn't use our toilet
[14:30] <foobarry> for the entire 2-3 onths
[14:30] <TwistedLucidity> The used the dog's food bowl?
[14:30] <foobarry> nope
[14:30] <zmoylan-pi> his roses came up great that year :-)
[14:30] <foobarry> a pile of leaves at the end of the garden
[14:31] <TwistedLucidity> Deffo report the builder
[14:31] <foobarry> what for?
[14:31] <foobarry> they did a good job (except for the leaky roof)
[14:31] <TwistedLucidity> Substandard work, and endangering public health.
[14:32] <foobarry> with their poo?
[14:32] <TwistedLucidity> Yes, their poop
[14:32] <foobarry> i should have taken their crowbar as payment but i gave it back to them today
[14:33] <TwistedLucidity> Embedded in a skull?
[14:33] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins, intrbiz: I will go away and look and more discrete POMs/assemblies
[14:56] <knightwise> ok
[14:56] <knightwise> logged in over ssh via the terminal app om the ubuntu phone
[14:57] <knightwise> too bad i dont have any function keys
[15:05] <knightwise> ah i DO have function keys
[15:13] <popey> :)
[15:28] <TwistedLucidity> knightwise: SSH into something and bring up some curses tools. Tell hipsters it's the prototype next-gen iOS. :-P
[15:28] <awilkins> Then run cmatrix on it.
[15:29] <zmoylan-pi> green text on black background for maximum hipsterness
[15:31] <popey> hah, what's the best nerd thing to run in a terminal
[15:31] <popey> moon buggy?
[15:31] <popey> "We have the latest games!"
[15:31] <popey> s/latest/best/
[15:31] <popey> s/best/oldest/
[15:32] <popey> s/the\ oldest/some"
[15:32] <popey> etc
[15:32] <zmoylan-pi> nethack...
[15:33] <zmoylan-pi> i have tmux with split screens. one for irc using irssi and newsbeuter an rss reader as well. sometimes i split one panel to give a command prompt to get other things done...
[15:34] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: bit.ly/HWTechMelodrama
[15:35] <diddledan> there's very little info about it on that page but it runs several cli tools in a tmux session to recreate every hollywood computer visual ever
[15:36] <diddledan> ok, maybe not recreate, but simulate
[15:36] <popey> Did any of you play snipes on netware?
[15:36] <popey> I loved that, one of the first realtime networked games I ever played
[15:36] <popey> in ~1993 or so, maybe before.
[15:37] <popey> http://www.infoden.in.rs/kepek/NSNIPES1.jpg
[15:37] <popey> was awesome
[15:37] <diplo> popey: dkirklands hollywood thing :) ref terminal app :)
[15:38] <zmoylan-pi> dr-dos used to have a great vector based space networked shootem up... spacewars?
[15:42] <MartijnVdS> Wheee! http://www.nealstephenson.com/news/2015/04/13/seveneves-excerpt/
[15:55] <diddledan> re: dkirkland's hollywood thing - launchpad shows a package in distributions for vivid - does that mean vivid has it in the main repo?
[15:56] <diddledan> ref: https://launchpad.net/hollywood/+packages
[15:57] <daftykins> ah another dead disk owner discovered at bed time last night - http://paste.ubuntu.com/10819664/
[15:57] <daftykins> i really ought to keep a tally ;)
[15:57] <diddledan> well done, daftykins
[15:57] <shauno> disks really don't like you, do they?
[15:57] <daftykins> :P
[15:57] <diddledan> daftykins: I'm working on something that'll let you find out. but time. I don't have enough
[15:58] <daftykins> the user in #ubuntu was complaining of the software center repeatedly failing, and even command line updates claiming the package lists were corrupted
[15:59] <diddledan> aah the raw read error rate is huge
[15:59] <daftykins> it's the discover and pending state of bad sectors that's the true kicker :D
[15:59] <daftykins> *discovery
[16:00] <daftykins> that disk wouldn't function normally until a good dd zero fill to find and remap everything in one go
[16:12] <bigcalm> Anybody good with bash know how to help me with this? syntax error near unexpected token `FILENAME="${f/$PRE_DEPLOY//}"'
[17:08] <popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Whatcouldgowrong/comments/32jrfn/display_my_gta_v_key_for_all_to_see_on_live/
[17:08] <popey> ho ho
[17:09] <popey> bigcalm: you have two different types of quotes
[17:09] <popey> ` at the start
[17:09] <popey> ' at the end
[17:09] <popey> they mismatch
[17:09] <daftykins> heh yeah i read about that one. some were a little bit too keen!
[17:12] <popey> yeah
[17:44] <ali1234> i don't understand that gta key thing
[17:44] <ali1234> twitch has like a 15 second lag
[17:44] <ali1234> so if he typed in his key and then hit enter, he'd already have registered it before anyone on twitch saw it
[17:45] <ali1234> did he like type it in to the box and then go and make a cup of tea?
[17:45] <daftykins> you know how with Steam it pops up to tell you your key? in the corner of the window
[17:45] <daftykins> he had that displayed for ages
[17:46] <ali1234> yes, but i have never needed to type that key in to play the game
[17:46] <ali1234> i don't understand why that thing even shows up
[17:46] <daftykins> yeah i've seen it on far more games than actually require it to be entered
[17:47] <daftykins> but there are some like GTA which require an online account be created with it i think
[17:47] <ali1234> so on GTA V, you buy the game on a DRM platform which tells you the key, and then you need to type that key back in so that the DRM platform will let you play the game?
[17:47] <ali1234> doesn't that seem a bit...redundant?
[17:48] <ali1234> i honestly don't understand why people put up with that stuff
[17:48] <diddledan> ali1234: double DRM
[17:48] <diddledan> :-p
[17:48] <diddledan> ali1234: because if we DRM all the things twice then WIN
[17:49] <diddledan> I loathe DRM anyway
[17:49] <ali1234> i don't mind DRM as long as it isn't completely incompetent
[17:49] <diddledan> most DRM _IS_ compltely incompetent tho
[17:50] <shauno> I have a healthy distrust for it because I still play things that are 20 years old, and don't expect any of the current schemes to function in 20 years
[17:50] <daftykins> because they want to play on PC ;)
[17:50] <diddledan> I don't mind DRM on streaming provided that I can actually stream on my device of choice
[17:51] <diddledan> shauno: yes, I don't like that a lot of DRM these days requires persistent connections
[17:51] <shauno> not just persistent connections, but for their service to still be functioning
[17:51] <diddledan> and of course there's the "OMG ONLINE"-only games that get their servers shut down because num-players < X
[17:52] <diddledan> EA have done that a while back with a whole slew of games IIRC
[17:54] <diddledan> randomness alert: Apple ought to release a proprietary version of IRC and call it iIRC
[17:56] <diddledan> shauno: shush! I enjoy thinking!
[17:57] <daftykins> years ago i got given a Mac - first task was a clean install of the OS - second was to find an IRC client
[17:57] <daftykins> i was shocked to find pretty much all were pay-for, madness!
[17:58] <shauno> it's not as bad as it sounds
[17:58] <shauno> the 'wave' before that were all pretty much terrible
[17:59] <daftykins> gotta run, pub quiz in 1hr the other side of the island - that's a whole 20 min ride away :D
[17:59] <shauno> snak & ircle and such
[17:59] <daftykins> ah yeah snak rings a bell
[17:59] <daftykins> ta-ra \o
[18:00] <diddledan> now we've got textual which is actually not bad, although a memory hog due to using webkit
[18:00] <shauno> (although the most popular paid-for client currently is also floss.  you can buy it from the appstore, or build it from github)
[18:00] <shauno> have fun
[18:00] <diddledan> shauno: I paid for it even though it's OSS
[18:01] <diddledan> shauno: I'm perfectly happy to support folk if they retain the OSS model
[18:01] <shauno> heh, ditto.  because I'm lazy.  but it's nice to know it's all on github too
[18:01] <diddledan> I don't mind proprietary either. but taking an OSS codebase and closing it is something I hate
[18:02] <diddledan> yeah, paying for convenience is a good model
[18:03] <ChunkzZ> pot, kettle, black - daftykins.
[18:03] <diddledan> ChunkzZ: ?
[18:08] <popey> 18:47 < ali1234> so on GTA V, you buy the game on a DRM platform which tells you the key, and then you need to type  that key back in so that the DRM platform will let you play the game?
[18:09] <popey> no
[18:09] <popey> you don't need to type the key in, but it puts it on screen for you to copy and save somewhere
[18:09] <popey> (I certainly didn't type it in)
[18:10] <ali1234> why would you need to save it if you don't need to type it in?
[18:10] <ali1234> and why can anyone steal your game by just copying that number?
[18:13] <ali1234> it's like "here's a number which is completely useless for any other purpose other than stealing your game, keep it safe"
[18:18] <shauno> I'm still impressed that someone actually stole it though
[18:18] <shauno> even if they did have some minutes to do so, they'd have to have a non-steam copy all ready to go, but not yet past the activation stage?
[18:19] <ali1234> yeah
[18:20] <ali1234> bought it physical, installed it on two computers, waited for someone dumb to show their key on twitch
[18:20] <popey> surely you can just click the button and say "add game to steam" and punch in the number, without having downloaded it
[18:21] <popey> then download after
[18:22] <shauno> hm, I didn't think of that.  I've only ever used that for redeeming humble codes
[18:23] <ali1234> popey: doesn't that mean that if you buy it on steam it is infinitely transferable?
[18:24] <ali1234> if you click "add to steam" and then type in your own CD key, does it make the steam server explode?
[18:26]  * popey shrugs
[18:27] <diddledan> is that like googling for google?
[18:27] <diddledan> (my brother aparently did that a while back and accidentally followed an advert to a bad site)
[18:28] <diddledan> he was looking for chrome I believe
[18:34] <diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/every-wi-fi-router-should-look-like-the-uss-enterprise-1695903201
[18:34] <diddledan> lol
[19:51] <diddledan> shauno: flaming sticks of fire: http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VQ3J2FyWtPY
[19:51] <diddledan> 20 minutes
[19:52] <shauno> oooh kerbalnauts *clicks*
[19:54] <diddledan> that's expensive. thrust worth 1.3meelion pounds
[19:54] <shauno> I'm not sure .... nm
[19:54] <diddledan> d'oh the stream died on me
[19:55]  * diddledan reloads the page
[19:58] <diddledan> I don't like that they have a terminator count
[20:00] <shauno> they really should get nasatv on the appletv
[20:01] <shauno> it's a shame we can't have a launchpad.  we have lots of big empty bits with nothing in it
[20:01] <diddledan> the auto sequence for the terminators has started!
[20:02] <diddledan> I guess it's judgement day
[20:02] <shauno> I hope not.  if they outsource the rapture to commercial interests, that'd be messy
[20:03] <diddledan> lol
[20:04] <Scorpians> o/
[20:04] <diddledan> ello Scorpians
[20:04] <Scorpians> o/ shauno
[20:04] <Scorpians> <-- bomberman
[20:05] <diddledan> shauno: Scorpians is from "the other place"
[20:05] <shauno> hah.  ello
[20:07] <diddledan> Scorpians: you'll have to watch your language in here, we're family-friendly :-p
[20:07] <Scorpians> is english ok? well bad english?
[20:07] <Scorpians> is binary accepted
[20:07] <diddledan> yeah, just no swearing or mentioning of n0rty body parts
[20:09] <diddledan> how old is this rocket? just wondering if it's allowed to smoke
[20:09] <Scorpians> lol
[20:09] <Scorpians> how exactly does it stay up? lower level clamps or is it sitting on its engine exhausts
[20:10] <diddledan> KSP would have you believe it's sitting on theengine cones
[20:10] <Scorpians> t- 20
[20:10] <Scorpians> t10 GO GO GO GO
[20:10] <diddledan> I think I'm slightly behind you
[20:10] <shauno> I'm still at -15!
[20:11] <shauno> no spoilers please :)
[20:11] <Scorpians> ohh IT WILL SHOW us the stargate shots. if ya see one that looks like a stargate its in tank fuel camera.
[20:12] <Scorpians> or is that ula?
[20:12] <shauno> I hope they don't break this one.  it's carrying a very important espresso machine
[20:12] <Scorpians> i wonder if it will actully land this time.
[20:14] <diddledan> grr, the stream died on me
[20:14] <Scorpians> check other channel i linked 3 the youtube and yourstream are ok
[20:14] <Scorpians> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csVpa25iqH0
[20:15] <Scorpians> no its the right side camra looked froze the left side was still moving
[20:30] <Scorpians> Elon Musk
[20:30] <Scorpians> ‏@elonmusk
[20:30] <Scorpians> Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.
[20:31] <diddledan> darnit
[20:31] <diddledan> how hard is it to not crash considering they did it on the moon back in the 60s
[20:31] <shauno> "landed too hard for survival" sounds a lot like "missiled the droneship"
[20:31] <diddledan> lol
[20:31] <diddledan> indeed :-p
[20:32] <diddledan> I guess they need yet another new barge
[20:33] <Scorpians> problem is they cant save to much fuel or its wasted. they have to cary that reserve fuel up.  and coming down its controled by fins, last time it crashed as a fin failed.  if you watched the tests it full powers about 5m off the ground. if its not timed perfect or a wave hits the boat and pushes it up could be difference of crash and land.
[20:33] <Scorpians> they should stick to there 2nd idea of landing on land.
[20:33] <diddledan> why do they call them missiles when these days they rarely miss?
[20:34] <shauno> I just imagine one guy at the back of the office jumping up and shouting "yeah,BULLSEYE".  and everyone else slowly turning to stare at him
[20:34] <diddledan> hahaha
[20:34] <Scorpians> lol
[20:35] <diddledan> lol, that gave me a jolly good laugh
[20:35] <diddledan> don't you love when you laugh out loud and feel an idiot because you're on your own with nobody nearby to hear you
[20:36] <shauno> no.  I live on the internet.  I feel awkward when there *are* other people to hear me doing a goofy impression
[20:37] <diddledan> grr, git is seriously weeing me off right now. I can't get it to push to company's git repo
[20:38] <diddledan> it helpfully says: Write failed: Broken pipe
[20:38] <shauno> isn't that ssh?
[20:38] <diddledan> aye, I think it's the ssh side that's the issue, yes
[20:39] <shauno> I mean, there's no reason it'd be unique to ssh; but I know ssh creates that exact message, and suspect it's mayhaps not a coincidence
[20:39] <diddledan> yup, it's defo ssh
[20:39] <diddledan> but as to how to fix it. pas d'idée
[20:40] <shauno> that's generally where the docs give you "contact your system administrator"  :)
[20:40] <shauno> can you ssh to the same box ordinarily?  (eg, should you be able to?)
[20:40] <diddledan> yeah, I hate that when I'm the admin
[20:41] <diddledan> I should be able to, but I can't - same error
[20:41] <shauno> perfect.  add -vvvv when you try to ssh without git, and you should get more feedback than you could ever want
[20:42] <diddledan> debug1: Requesting no-more-sessions@openssh.com
[20:42] <diddledan> o_O
[20:43] <Scorpians> whens 04-15 out
[20:44] <diddledan> it seems to authenticate, then get down to spawning the shell which ends with: debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 0 rmax 32768
[20:44] <diddledan> then after a delay it prints the broken pipemessage
[20:46] <diddledan> does ssh use more than a single connection?
[20:46] <diddledan> e.g. like ftp
[20:46] <shauno> good lord no
[20:47] <diddledan> so all comms go over the initial connection attempt?
[20:47] <shauno> I believe so
[20:48] <diddledan> is just I got two internet addresses which are round-robin for outgoing connections to load balance between two ISPs
[20:48] <diddledan> a single connection shouldn't hop tho
[20:49] <diddledan> and I also set destination port of 22 to always go out a single route as an attempt to fix this
[20:54] <intrbiz> diddledan: SSH channels are multiplexed down one SSH connection, channels in SSH are part of the procol, EG: shell channel, command channel, etc
[20:55] <diddledan> intrbiz: that's what I thought
[20:55] <diddledan> intrbiz: which suggests that my load-balancing shouldn't affect it
[20:55] <diddledan> I can ssh other hosts fine
[20:56] <intrbiz> diddledan: can you ssh, eg: ssh git@host to the server you are pushing too? (things like gitlab will give a MOTD etc)
[20:57] <diddledan> no
[20:58] <intrbiz> diddledan: what error do you get when you try that?
[20:58] <diddledan> same
[20:58] <intrbiz> do you have access to the server logs?
[20:59] <diddledan> not without ssh
[20:59] <intrbiz> can you ssh via another host?
[20:59] <diddledan> err.. why yes
[21:00] <intrbiz> diddledan: ssh via the other host and look at the server logs, might have some pointers
[21:05] <diddledan> it seems syslog is dead but auth.log shows: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10823929/
[21:05] <shauno> dead?
[21:06] <diddledan> dead syslog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10823933/
[21:07] <intrbiz> diddledan: has your disk gone read only?
[21:07] <diddledan> nope
[21:08] <intrbiz> diddledan: what is in dmesg?
[21:09] <diddledan> hmm, there's some OOMs
[21:09] <shauno> df & df -i ?
[21:10] <shauno> (syslog not having a fd is just kinda creepy)
[21:10] <intrbiz> diddledan: probably worth rebooting the box then, OOM tends to equal lots of instability
[21:10] <diddledan> I don't have the access to fix it if it doesn't come back tho
[21:10] <intrbiz> I've seen syslog get killed by OOM killer all to often before
[21:11] <diddledan> I'll email the system owner
[21:11] <intrbiz> diddledan: what git mangement stuff are you running?
[21:11] <diddledan> right now I can kill-off several seemingly excess ssh: git processes
[21:11] <diddledan> we're running gitolite
[21:25] <diddledan> the issue with syslog seems to be that /dev is full
[21:25] <diddledan> this is an ancient gentoo
[21:25] <diddledan> it can't be upgraded either
[21:27] <intrbiz> diddledan: sounds like its time for some TLC
[21:28] <intrbiz> diddledan: move to gitlab?
[21:28] <diddledan> not my machine
[21:28] <diddledan> there's a plan to move to gitlab  but it never seemed to happen
[21:29] <diddledan> gitlab was installed and populated and then.. nada.
[21:29] <intrbiz> diddledan: ah
[21:30] <shauno> dev is full?
[21:30] <shauno> I assume something's writing to a device that never existed, so they're actually just filling a file?
[21:30] <diddledan> shauno: no idea
[21:31] <shauno> well, look for huge files in /dev  lol
[21:31] <diddledan> aye. tty12
[21:31] <mappps> ;]
[21:32] <shauno> that's actually the kinda thing I'd do.  have syslog logging to a tty, etc
[21:32] <shauno> but you kinda need a device that exists.  especially now with tmpfs, devfs, etc .. you're filling a ramdisk
[21:33] <diddledan> yup, it seems syslog-ng is set to log to /dev/tty12
[21:34] <shauno> I know it's not your box .. but I'd move that somewhere else (the existing file, so you can slap someone with it).  and see how much sanity is restored just like magic
[21:34] <diddledan> fixed
[21:35] <shauno> I mean, not logging there, or creating the device would be nice.  but if you're treading on someopne else's toes, at least letting it live until morning is nice
[21:36] <diddledan> I just deleted the file and stopped the syslog from trying to recreate it :-D
[21:36] <diddledan> I wonder if that will fix the ssh problem, too
[21:36] <shauno> heh, that works.  I don't know what liberties you're allowed to take with the machine :)
[21:36] <shauno> only one way to find out?
[21:36] <diddledan> :-)
[21:36] <shauno> (but it's probably related, if dev is full you can't create a new /dev/pts/foo
[21:37] <diddledan> seems not to have fixed the ssh :-(
[21:38] <shauno> oh well.  point the logging somewhere sane and you can start troubleshooting that without guesswork
[21:44] <diddledan> absolutely zero helpful messages :-(
[21:46] <intrbiz> diddledan: are the gitolite processes taking ages to run? is the SSH connection dieing because gitolite has not responded quick enough?
[21:47] <diddledan> intrbiz: it seemsthe ssh connections are hanging around after the timeout on the client
[21:47] <diddledan> e.g. http://paste.ubuntu.com/10824088/
[21:48] <intrbiz> diddledan: you could try adding ServerAliveInterval 60 option in your git config for the host
[22:04] <diddledan> ok, I think there's a problem with virgin media
[22:04] <diddledan> switching my ssh to go via sky instead works fine
[22:05] <shauno> really?
[22:06] <diddledan> it's either that or my config for routing ssh to virgin was messed
[22:06] <diddledan> I can flip it back and see
[22:11] <diddledan> ok, flipping it back also worked so I'm guessing my loadbalancing must be a mess
[22:12] <diddledan> I've added some more rules which should help with connection-stickiness
[22:12] <diddledan> it seems that my previous rules weren't keeping a connection stuck to the wan it started on
[22:13] <shauno> so, you broked it, and the fact the server was all kinds of purple was just incidental?
[22:13] <diddledan> yup
[22:14] <diddledan> at least the server is less broke than it was after my forey
[22:17] <shauno> well, I guess this is normal if you use gentoo on servers
[22:17] <shauno> they're probably all messed up, you just never look :)
[22:17] <diddledan> too scared to look morelike
[22:18] <diddledan> you know they're misconfigured up the wotsit but if you don't look you won't be tempted to try to fix it