=== luke is now known as Guest20327 === zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi [05:28] hi guys [05:30] Hmm, playing with pulseaudio over the network. I've got it running but it stutters like hell. My first thought was network throughput issues but the server is on ethernet, and the client is around a meter away from the router, I can shove 7MB/sec through the connection and pulse seems to only want ~300KB/sec, any ideas? [05:30] Feels like it needs a buffer or something [05:34] pulseaudio? you streaming audio? [05:48] mapps, yup, I got it working reasonably well now, still a tiny bit of stuttering but it only seems to be firefox that stutters [05:48] I'm calling it a win. :) [05:49] mapps, out on holiday so I got my two laptops, one of which runs my IM stuff while I am working on my main, pulse streaming from the IM laptop to the main one and synergy too, \o/ [05:50] what are you streaming/what do you use to stream and what you use to listen [05:51] i thought pulseaudio was just to do with normal sound not streaming..sure id heard of it before [05:51] pulseaudio is the answer to all those questions [05:51] hm [05:51] so you can stream say mp3 using it? [05:51] mapps, any app that makes sound on my little laptop comes out of my big laptop [05:52] open VLC and play a MP3, the audio will come out of the other laptop [05:52] ahh ok [05:52] i get it [05:52] I'll video demo actually because it's cool, one sec [05:52] why doi you want it like this really? [05:52] so I can hear when I get messages on my little laptop? [05:52] so its not just for streaming music..am i right that pulseaudio is to di with audio on local machine too [05:52] ok:) [05:53] IM being like Jabber/ICQ/ whatever people use now i guess.:P [05:56] IRC is IM :) [05:56] ahh [05:58] gah, slow US internet connection, feel like I'm in a third world country :P [05:59] gonna take 10 minutes to upload a 20 second video [06:06] hah [06:06] where are you? [06:06] Just south of LA [06:07] cool..how long far [06:07] until may [06:09] nice [06:09] with work? [06:09] yea, here for work [06:10] nice [06:10] couldnt you have done the work remotely in theory? or just not possible at all [06:12] mapps, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6Ply8QS8M there we go [06:12] mapps, it is, but I come out every now and again just to hang and this time we have a bit of a deal to seal [06:14] cool:) [06:14] going to any cool places whilst there [06:20] morning peeps [06:37] mapps, maybe universal or something, nothing planned [07:18] morning all [07:19] Can anybody recommend a HP colour printer/scanner/fax etc that prints up to A3 [07:21] * knightwise hates printers === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [07:38] DJones: that's not a big selection [07:40] DJones: HP multi-function printers that can do A3 and are sold in the UK: OfficeJet 7500, . [07:43] Yeah, that was about the only one I could find [07:44] I think problem solved anyway, just getting a cheap a4 printer to last 3 months until we can change computer systems to one that will actually allow us to select which paper tray we want to print from on the main printer [08:12] Good morning peeps :) [08:15] Moin [08:21] Morning all [08:21] howdy howdy howdy [08:34] popey: how's GTA V? [08:38] bigcalm: my mate is chomping at the bit, he gets his copy delivered today and he's at work. [08:39] MooDoo: given a good internet connection, eager beavers like us downloaded via Steam on the 7th [08:43] bigcalm: yeah bit big isn't it? [08:44] https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/585531979665448960 [08:46] Happy GTA V day, JamesTait [08:46] Good morning all; happy Equal Pay Day! :-D [08:46] :P [08:47] :| [08:47] bigcalm, o/ [09:10] JamesTait: no really not happening unless we all get the same money as the boss ;) [09:12] and animals too? [09:12] do they get fair pay? [09:13] or is it because women usually are paid less equal pay day? [09:15] the latter [09:16] zmoylan-pi, yes, to do with the gender gap, and promoting equal pay for equal work. [09:19] bigcalm: don't forget the 5gb day 1 patch for gta V wow [09:22] morning boys and girls. [09:23] MooDoo: only 5gb? small by modern standards [09:23] MooDoo: also, gta5 doesn't work if your windows username is not strictly alphanumeric, e.g. has accents in it or punctuation :p [09:27] https://twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/587840969598373888 < awilkins: modern gaming [09:30] Eugh [09:30] will get xbox one version i think lol [09:31] If you use that feature, it should post a screenshot on your twitter feed with a comment that says "Look at me! I'm a TOTAL LAMER!" [09:43] a complete leroy jenkins [09:48] awilkins: isn't that just the same as the rich kids at school buying a complete pack of all the stickers in teh sticker album? [09:49] i but yeah DLC sucks, and EA are the epitomy of it [09:50] In that it's infuriating and it spoils the achievements of those with skill? Yes.... [09:58] kek, BBC Cambridgeshire retweeted my tweet and then undid it X-D [10:07] bigcalm: good fun :) [10:08] bigcalm: didn't get to play it until ~40 mins past midnight as it had to decrypt/unpack 60GB on spinning rust [10:08] popey: that's what I'll have to wait for when I get home about 8pm tonight as well then [10:09] popey: Did you get to choose your name in the game? [10:14] uh [10:14] dunno [10:17] Ah, doh [10:17] Names aren't needed until playing online [10:18] I'm just used to Hat Films / YogsCast playing online [10:19] go for a name that is the epitome of british driving... noddy :-D [10:19] I wanna go home! [10:25] bigcalm: my GPU is unable to run it at a decent res or framerate [10:26] So I anticipate buying another one rather soon [10:26] i bet a console is cheaper than a gpu [10:27] Hmm, you can get the next-tier-down GPU for £100-200 [10:27] Usually [10:27] And that will make everything go faster. [10:27] wow, i intend replacing my main system for around €200 :-) [10:27] New console only makes new console games faster. And they cost a bomb. [10:27] I bet a console can't do what my pc does [10:28] console avoids the GPU race [10:28] * awilkins shrugs [10:28] GPU race allows for trickle down economics [10:28] Haven't changed my GPU in years [10:28] My son can have my old GPU [10:28] me either [10:28] Forgotten which model I have actually [10:28] 14/08/2011 was when I bought this GTX 460 from overclockers according to my email. [10:28] It runs Elite : Dangerous between 30 and 60 frames at 1920x1080 ergo it is good enough [10:29] maybe not. [10:29] Mine runs GTA V at 1366x768 at 30fps :S [10:29] My home system has a "nVidia GeForce GTX 660" no idea how it'll fair [10:29] GTX 560 Ti on the 12th Feb 2011 [10:29] not a lot better than mine I think [10:30] Poop [10:30] i don't have a home system anymore [10:30] just a laptop and a microserver [10:30] "GeForce GTX 750 Ti" in my work workstation [10:30] Maybe I should add a 2nd drive and install GameOS on it [10:30] My next GPU will probably be part of my Next Big Upgrade [10:30] heh [10:31] I'll need something that can do 60Hz in 3D stereo in most games at whatever res the Oculus Rift CV1 comes out at [10:31] foobarry, Running a Pi2 as a microserver [10:31] RAIDed disk? [10:32] foobarry, No [10:32] But it's not critical [10:32] If I start needing heavy storage I'll defer that to my NAS box [10:32] hah, all the broadcasts in steam are gta 5 today [10:32] That has MySQL and a bunch of other apps available for it's default OS as "apps" [10:33] NAS has a RAID 0 array of 2x 4TB WD reds [10:33] Oh, sorry [10:33] RAID 1 [10:34] RAID 0 wouldn't be much use [10:35] popey: it wouldn't be an excuse to buy the latest dell that you are looking for would it? [10:36] Question: Is there an easy way to automagically keep (say) the last 3 kernel versions, rather than have them all hang around and cause problems when running updates? [10:37] TwistedLucidity: sudo apt-get autoremove [10:37] So...so run that prior to every update? [10:38] TwistedLucidity: should leave you with Current kernel/new kernel and original kernel iirc [10:38] davmor2: OK, seems simple enough. Just have to remember to do it! [10:39] It's easy enough to fix, but seeing "Kernel updates failed. Panic, human. PANIC NOW!" is never fun. :-) [10:39] * bigcalm comforts himself by watching the GTA V videos on Steam [10:39] TwistedLucidity: just alias apt-get-dist to sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y && sudo apt-get autoremove done ;) [10:39] wow, steam update which hits you in the face with a GTA 5 support note [10:39] windows user names have to be A-Z, a-z and 0-9 only, anything else and GTA 5 won't install [10:39] davmor2: Heh....I knew this was the place to ask [10:39] davmor2: no. :) [10:40] * TwistedLucidity really should look into Landscape or something [10:40] \o/ landscape [10:40] free for 10 machines [10:40] (and 10 VMs) [10:40] wonder if a bug or anti le^e€½²€3t speak [10:40] Aye, which is why I should look into it. Or something anyway. "sudo apt...." is not a big deal, but manually having to hit a number of machines becomes, well, a drag [10:41] TwistedLucidity: landscape makes it much easier and really don't run that it may break your system :) but if you run sudo apt-get autoremove on 14.04 + it will remove old kernel images [10:41] how many GTA games have they made now and they still can't even parse a string correctly? [10:41] heh [10:41] 3 physical boxes, 1 always-on VM (maybe more soon). [10:42] i added my mums machine to my landscape [10:42] TwistedLucidity: I do it now as it saves me manually culling them to make /boot have enough free space for the new kernels :) [10:42] makes life easier so I can remotely do stuff to her machine even now she's changed ISP and I have no SSH access [10:43] That reminds me, I really need to have the router poll the WAN IP and update the DNS records is needs be. [10:43] Or if Landscape can do it, that'll be fine too. [10:43] popey, There's an idea [10:44] Does 14.04 support it? [10:44] A project to look into over the next few months once everything else is out of the way. Yeesh. Roll-on retirement! [10:44] In ~35 years. [10:44] Although TBH I think I have mum on the dynamic DNS + SSH port forward [10:44] * TwistedLucidity starts sobbing [10:45] TwistedLucidity, Is your router running something you can put a cron job on? [10:45] TwistedLucidity, I'm using duckdns and all you have to do is fetch a particular URL periodically [10:45] DD-WRT, even has some pre-configured muck for some companies. But MythicBeasts isn't one - so yeah, need to slap in a wee script. [10:45] I have my CNAME records point at the duckdns names and I'm all good [10:46] Never heard of DuckDNS before. DDG folks? [10:47] Don't think so [10:48] It's just some guys who did it for learning purposes [10:48] awilkins: yes [10:49] No association with DDG : http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/1muz4q/duckdns_a_completely_free_as_in_beer_ddns_solution/ccd6z0x [10:49] (quote : some guy on the internet claiming to be the DuckDNS guy) [10:50] bigcalm: someone was live streaming their gta 5 setup last night on launch, and left their key on screen, someone stole it immediately. [10:50] Ouch [10:50] so who's coming for drinks next week ! http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/3087-release-drinks/ [10:52] Boo, we need drinkies in Manchester [10:53] do it [10:53] I'd consider if I hadn't just been to London to vote and apply for a new passport [10:55] :( [10:55] popey: :( [10:56] Have DMed @madlabuk to see if there's any possibility of Ubuntu Drinkies next Thursday [10:56] They already seem to have a Java meetup and a meeting of their Space Programme [10:57] So I'll probably be heading there that night anyway! [11:13] new car buying is exciting, but delays are frustrating [11:16] what u buying directhex_ [11:16] A CAR :O [11:17] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2iThBoxYbY [11:17] A Volt! [11:18] are they electric/hybrid? [11:18] Fully elec [11:18] i keep nearly getting run over by electrics [11:18] living in surburbia you often cross quiet streets using your ears [11:19] especially cul de sacs [11:19] a habit you'll unlearn or darwin will sort it out [11:19] hoping they would get a noise added to them [11:19] also, [11:20] stepping out from the kerb and a guy decided to pull away from kerb without indicating [11:20] directhex_: that looks quite nice [11:20] i didn't know his intention or able to second guess because the engine was not making noise [11:20] foobarry: "it's complicated" [11:20] foobarry: at low speeds, it's all electric [11:20] foobarry: Always look. Both ways. Push-cyclists are quiet and they can kill peds as well. [11:21] sure, but in the case of driver in car deciding to drive away from kerbn suddenly, i had no way of knowing [11:21] if i had heard engine i would have beeen aware of driver in car etc [11:21] foobarry: at high speeds, it's PE hybrid like a prius. at low speeds if you forgot to charge it (or ran it flat), it's all electric w/ petrol generator [11:21] Have discovered that my car allowance gets paid regardless of whether I spend it on car [11:21] foobarry: In that scenario, true. Which is why you throw yourself on to the bonnet and then sue them. [11:22] This is almost disappointing because now I have no incentive to drive anything nicer [11:22] or they would drive away [11:22] rocket powered roller skates awilkins :-) [11:22] lawn mower [11:22] I thought about leasing a Tesla but it's a MITE over my budget [11:22] foobarry: https://youtu.be/hbhIB1oDoxU?t=167 [11:23] do reliant robin have a leccy version yet? :-) [11:26] can anyone recommend a garden fork that won't break easily? [11:27] how many forks have you broken? [11:27] 1 [11:28] then it might have been the fork or it might have been you using it wrong. get another and wait [11:28] but reading the reviews it seems lot of other people do too [11:28] because people use them wrong [11:28] or people leave them outside and they rot [11:28] not sure whether to get teh £15 one or splash out on the wilkinson sword stainless steel one [11:28] they stick them in compacted soil and try to break the soil by applying pressure to the fork [11:29] http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004WJ0SJI [11:30] or maybe a cheaper carbon steel one :S [11:32] you never know what reviewers on the net are doing [11:32] or how crazy/stupid they are [11:33] directhex_: don't buy that one you know pronouncing xul is too close to saying zool ;) [11:33] at least it's not the beetlejuice model === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [11:33] davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7MAacSPNM [11:34] directhex_: there is no chevy only xul [11:35] sigh @ focus in unity [11:46] https://yougov.co.uk/#/centre GRAPHS! [11:50] barely anybody is bothering to campaign around here [11:50] safe seat, safe ward [11:50] zzzz === webpigeon_ is now known as webpigeon [11:54] same here [11:54] had a letter through the door from a councillor saying sorry he'd missed us (we were in) [11:56] some sort of pi activated spotlight pointing at the doorstep with fanfare music... :-) [11:57] dueling banjos? [11:58] i tweeted some of them asking if there's a hustings [11:58] no reply [12:00] might do a chrisccoulson [12:01] What have I done? *hides* [12:01] what has he done? [12:03] oh [12:04] Laney, oh, are you referring to how I voted in May? [12:05] sure am [12:05] aha :) [12:05] it's incredibly tedious to page down your tweets back to then [12:05] I'll probably be voting the same way again [12:05] twitter seems to have given up giving me new ones [12:06] chrisccoulson: how did you vote? [12:06] Laney, is this what you're looking for? https://twitter.com/chrisccoulson/status/469437833179316224 [12:07] haha [12:07] :D [12:07] wait, why do the parties get to write a tagline? [12:08] ali1234, it makes the ballot paper larger, which means it's easier to draw a cock on it using a black marker pen [12:10] Laney, what constituency are you in? [12:10] popey: dont suppose you know if the bluetooth on the Ubuntu phone will work with a selfie stick ? [12:10] haha [12:10] chrisccoulson: Nottingham East [12:10] Not sure I want to know [12:11] czajkowski: almost certainly not [12:11] czajkowski: file a bug :) [12:11] chrisccoulson: there's zero chance of labour not winning nottingham east [12:11] Laney: chrisccoulson gedling borough here [12:13] Laney, aha, I feel a bit sorry for you. Chris Leslie is quite an unremarkable MP [12:13] popey: well I'll get one and test it then I can at least file the bug knowing I've tried before I file it [12:13] czajkowski: i think we have bluetooth configured to only allow headphones / speakers right now [12:13] that can change [12:14] but the camera app doesn't have the facility, so yeah, test and file a bug [12:14] will do [12:15] wanted to use the phone at mobile week NYC [12:15] would have been a great way to demo it working [12:15] popey: next co working day we may have folks from Xamarin joining us :) [12:16] can be all about the mobile [12:16] the story of my life right now [12:19] I swear my laptop has a mind of its own today. keeps going up in volume and I'm not touching it [12:21] * popey looks at directhex_ [12:21] wot? [12:21] be nice to have xamarin available on linux.. [12:22] (and ubuntu phone) [12:22] yes, it would. [12:22] we can dream... [12:22] There is a Xamarin and COuchbase workshop next month free to all if anyone is interested http://www.meetup.com/Couchbase-London/events/221820591/ [12:23] popey: i think it'll be an easier sell for me once steam machines launch [12:23] i can push the indie gamedev angle, via monogame [12:26] Right [12:26] That's later in the year? [12:26] I see controllers go on sale in November. [12:30] everything is november [12:36] crimbo is coming... [12:38] only a few 100 shopping days left [12:40] http://www.xmasclock.com/ [12:40] 254 [12:41] new features in 15.04? [12:41] see, nearly into the christmas rush!! :-) === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [12:43] * popey updates his amazon wishlist for christmas [12:43] only summer, back to school and halloween sales to go === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [12:44] plasma5 looks like kde4 without the cashew [12:44] popey: are you on vivid? [12:45] popey: desktop [12:46] 5. Locally Integrated Menus are now default. [12:46] ^^ global menu is gone? [12:47] foobarry: does that mean i have to stop trolling KDE users by calling it "the peanut"? [12:48] if you can find any ,it seems so [12:50] 15.04 looks like the lowest key release in ages [12:52] davmor2: yup [12:53] popey: did you update today yet? [12:53] yes [12:53] a few minutes ago [12:54] popey: can you press AltGr and see if it displays the menus for you please [12:54] it doesnt [12:54] oh, 22 more updates to go [12:54] a thousand kde packages [12:55] davmor2: i haven't logged out or rebooted for ages, so I may not be a good gauge of anything [12:55] 13:55:17 up 5 days, 17:34, 4 users, load average: 0.81, 0.65, 0.70 [12:55] elementary freya got released \o/ [12:55] don't forget to pay for your iso! [12:56] i was going to contribute actually :D [12:56] or maybe sponsor a bug [12:58] https://www.bountysource.com/ [12:58] haha http://askubuntu.com/questions/607935/what-determines-permissions-in-dev [12:58] no answers for 2 days. [12:59] I stick a "free internet points" bounty on it, and get instant answers! :D [12:59] yay for free internet points [12:59] because questions without bounties get buried in seconds [13:05] popey: Ah, but are any of them correct? [13:06] dunno, need to figure that out [13:06] permissions in dev are determined by udev btw [13:06] Still, a wrong answer is probably still better than the OP replying with "It's OK, I fixed it." and then never saying how... [13:06] well yes, because it's triggered discussion on a couple of answers [13:07] There should be a special place in hell for people like that [13:07] the answer by serg is the correct one [13:07] popey: Why not just read the manual? [13:07] * TwistedLucidity starts running [13:07] read the manual for udev? hahahahahahhhaha [13:08] thought so [13:08] implying it even exists [13:08] ali1234: A code without documentation is poor code. [13:08] i agree [13:09] the really funny part is that even lennart himself couldn't write a correct udev rule for pulseaudio [13:10] but his attempted worked correctly for years due to undefined behaviour [13:10] then one day it broke [13:11] but apparently all of systemd is documented and has stability guarantees /s [13:11] I hope the documentation has been tested.... [13:12] the documentation for udev is basically equivalent to bad autogenerated doxygen stuff - it tells you absolutely nothing [13:13] essentially it gives you a list of valid keywords and identifiers and tells you nothing about what they do [13:13] "getFoo(): This method gets a foo and returns foo." with no explanation on what a "foo" is, why you want one or where to use it. [13:13] I hate things like that [13:14] Idea: have a second coder write the unit tests based solely off the comments.... [13:14] * TwistedLucidity cackles evily [13:16] popey: btw the person asking why you think permissions are wrong has a good point [13:16] /dev/input/event* should only be readable by root [13:17] mumble had better have a damn good reason for doing so, because it looks awfully like malware [13:18] i would hope it's for something like "push to talk" when a game has grabbed all keyboard input from X [13:21] the good news is that with udev you can control permissions down to individual devices. so for push-to-talk you could get one of those usb buttons (ie a 1 key keyboard) and only allow mumble to access that [13:21] so yeah udev isn't all bad [13:22] reminds me, I was looking for a way for python to grab keyboard input in a background process [13:23] no security implications there... [13:23] :) [13:23] TwistedLucidity, I hate doxygen [13:24] TwistedLucidity, set a policy of having documented methods on one of my last projects [13:24] (it's not really an environment with any security implications for input. the 'keyboard' is a lirc dongle - IR receiver that presents itself as a keyboard to the OS) [13:24] Some smartarse deployed Doxygen and ka-pow! Documentation. [13:24] ali1234: yeah. [13:24] Or it's Java equivalent [13:25] ali1234: it is for push to talk, yes. mumble couldn't see my keypresses until I fiddled with that. [13:25] nothing wrong with doxygen and similar when used correctly [13:25] Problem was the classes and methods had some of the most obtuse and confusing names possible [13:25] problem is nobody ever does [13:26] awilkins: Or comments that make perfect sense at the time, but don't 3 years later. [13:27] And if you do fully elaborate methods in the docs (or link to the full elaboration), when the code changes people don't update the docs [13:27] Or they move the docs [13:27] TwistedLucidity, My rule of thumb for any comment is - can you make the code clear enough not to need it [13:28] awilkins: That does help, but it often not enough [13:28] I work on a system where you can export documents. The can have multiple 'pages', linked content, reditions and so on. [13:29] An export is a non-trivial operation for various reasons. [13:29] So the method "doc.export" has a bunch of flags for which version, rendition etc [13:29] The code is perfectly clear. [13:30] The interations between those switches and the edge cases? No so much [13:30] Class diagram from one of the projects I despaired of : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/refset-classes.png [13:30] Or why the defaults are the way they are. [13:30] That one is LESS complicated than the diagram for the single class at the top [13:31] Which has around 200 methods accumulated from about 12 interfaces it implements [13:31] The methods are hidden because they are redonkulous [13:32] It doesn't matter how bad it is, so long as you follow the process to create badness. ISO9001 approval! [13:33] awilkins: I fear for your unit tests...... [13:33] Aha, found the class at the top : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10616420/ConceptComponent.png [13:33] :) [13:34] The worst thing is, it's generic ( type params R, C) [13:35] And param C is "C extends ConceptComponent " [13:35] Yes, this class is it's own grandpa [13:36] And it's abstract. So any instance of it also it's own grandpa while also being a child of it's own grandpa [13:37] Grandpa being 2,860 lines of what seems to be mostly type casting... [13:38] And it implements eleven (11!!) interfaces [13:42] Classception [13:42] Yeah, pretty much [13:42] I've written generics code that makes co-workers wince [13:42] This makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry for mummy until the bad code goes away [13:42]