[00:01] I'm using Ubuntu for the first time in quite a long while. [00:04] For the most part I like it. [00:05] It seems to work well on my daughter's computer. [00:10] brb [00:11] hmm, phpmyadmin just surprised me - I created a database and a database_dev and it grouped them in the interface [00:18] it does that [00:18] has done for a while [00:18] I've not used it in forever [00:19] Wht does a database_dev do? [00:20] * m0nkey_ thorws ball the extra I and L to attach to the word. [00:23] I /knew/ there was something dodgy about database people! ;-) [00:24] ball: I meant database as a generic term for a named database - the point was the _dev was appended to the name of another database [00:24] so I created and _dev [00:25] Oh, does _dev just signify the development version of a database? [00:26] it's purely semantic - I just chose _dev arbitrarily to mean just that [00:26] diddledan, http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608025 [00:26] * ball nods [00:26] I get it now. Thanks for explaining. [00:26] Weird cpu cooler [00:26] I ordered [00:26] o_O [00:27] double decker! [00:27] 120mm & 92mm fans [00:27] that really is weird [00:27] they say it's comptable with my board, hopefully it is [00:28] In fact, I ordered two different ones. This is the second. [00:28] Turned out the first I ordered wasn't suitable for my TDP [00:28] :-( [00:28] I got to return the first one. Which would have been perfect. [00:31] My case is already full of Noctua fans [00:31] I'm kinda a fan (heh, get it?) of Noctua [00:33] I found the stock Intel cooler not to be up to snuff [00:34] Especially for gaming [00:34] However, I have the same Intel cooler in my NAS which has a E3 Xeon. That one seems to be just fine. [00:44] Oh that's weird. I quite Rhythmbox but it's still playing music. [00:44] It does that [00:44] I HUPped it. [00:45] That put it out of its misery. [00:45] Why? Go to the volume control and stop it [00:45] HUP is more reload, TERM is to shutdown gracefully [00:45] -9 is BURN IT WITH FIRE! [00:45] -9 == -KILL? [00:46] kill -9 [00:46] Basically pull the rug from under it's feet. [00:46] no, I mean `kill -9` == `kill -KILL`? [00:46] -TERM is happier [00:46] -9 or -KILL... -9 is shorter :D === m0nkey__ is now known as m0nkey_ [01:57] m0nkey_: HUP did the job. [01:57] HUP is a hang-up, which is what I wanted. [01:58] Does ubuntu ship with a GUI-based text editor? [01:58] (with search and replace)? [01:59] Oh, found it. [01:59] gedit [02:00] and about 50,000 more are available... [02:07] vim-gtk [02:07] gedit worked. [06:10] morning peeps === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [07:53] morning all [07:53] yes, it is! [07:53] new car day :D [07:53] yay [08:25] Morning all === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [09:03] Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bat Appreciation Day! :-D [09:06] more importantly, happy directhex's new car day [09:07] And happy JamesTait's new MTB drivetrain day. :) [09:10] JamesTait: close enough right https://www.pinterest.com/pin/135319163775397306/ ← popey you'll like this one :) [09:10] catman [09:11] popey: that has to be it's name and do you think they go in the garden and shout "Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner Catman" to call hime in? [09:12] -e [09:15] http://boingboing.net/2015/04/16/scythe-vs-weedwhacker.html [09:15] morning boys and girls. [09:17] davmor2, nice! :) [09:17] well, i liked all of the origami except the winner which was lame! [09:21] JamesTait: sneaky see nearly caterday so drop in cat on bat appreciation day :D [09:22] the winner had more 'likes' [09:22] ah that old chestnut [09:23] i think thats why people often do "the 5 with most likes will be entered into a final where the judges choose" [09:23] yeah, that would have been better [09:24] but hey, its a free comp [09:24] they can do what they like [09:25] i was gonna do a unicorn and airbrush the completed thing it in rainbow colours but i got sick :( === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [10:20] morning [10:21] Yes. [10:21] :( [10:22] this morning seems to be filled with nonsensical tickets from strange countries. I was in no way prepared for this when I crawled out of bed. [10:22] lol [10:22] Subject: objects fled far away [10:22] "Dear Colleagues, recently I faced with the problem that some of our customers moved in Afghanistan, but they were in Russia. When I try to return object in the desired Russia it disappeared. Have someone of you have this problem and is it a possibility to return the object back." [10:23] (I wouldn't bother reading it twice, it doesn't seem to help) [10:23] err [10:26] send them a cardboard box and a few stamps? :-) [10:28] well, I think there's a very obvious answer. I'm just struggling to put it into polite terms. [10:28] ah well, if you're polite the message has no chance to penetrate that skull... [10:41] write an asnwer and then google translate it into another language and then back again [10:42] or run it through 3 different languages to maximise the distortion === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [11:39] yay [11:40] realised it's friday or discovered a fiver in pocket you didn't know you had... [11:44] popey, JamesTait : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2DCExerOsA a suggestion for the name of the release :D [11:58] davmor2: Wibbling Walrus? [12:01] woolly woofter? [12:01] (1980s schoolboy insult) [12:02] Wacky Wombat === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [12:10] So I tried some ramdisk network transfers and got ~71MB/s. About 50% of network capacity. A wee bitty better, still suspect I have some config issues. [12:21] Elementary Freya = prrrretty ! [12:21] have the vm running on a 29 inch widescreen monitor (fullscreen) and its gorgeous [12:22] and pretty snappy too! [12:24] yeah its lovely [12:24] one feature i like is.. [12:25] you get notifications on actions that you ran in the terminal if you susequently switch windows [12:26] e.g. apt-get dist-upgrade, start using chrome in full screen, get a little notification to say the upgrade finished [12:26] also ctrl-c and ctrl-v work in terminal as copy paste in context aware manner [12:34] that is SOO pretty [12:36] maybe compiz conditioned me into expecting poor performance, but its super fast too innit? [12:36] try it on bare metal... [12:39] ctrl-c copies in the terminal?? [12:40] have we found a desktop even more stupid than GNOME? [12:40] that would be nice [12:40] foobarry: unity8 is much faster than unity7 too :) [12:41] everything is faster than compiz === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [12:46] I remember checking it out a while back (pre-Freya). It did look good. [12:46] CTRL-C/V in the terminal catches me out all the time [12:46] it should *just* work :-) [12:47] ali1234: its context aware [12:47] http://www.veeam.com/endpoint-backup-free.html << for you windows users [12:48] i don't really see how it can be context aware in a meaningful way [12:48] . If there is some text selected and you press Ctrl+C it will copy the selected text to clipboard. If no text is selected the default behavior will be applied (end process signal will be sent). [12:48] That's pretty neat. In a dangerous sort of way [12:48] you can disable it if you wish, [12:49] ctrl-c only kills a running command that isn't in background, which is usually poor practice [12:49] i can see it going badly [12:49] thats the kneejerks reaction [12:49] if you want to copy something from the output of a running process [12:50] and it scrolls when you are trying to select, clearing the selection [12:50] and then you accidentally kill it [12:50] measure twice , cut once, or use middle button :D [12:50] i always use middle button [12:50] hat's one reason why i don't like GNOME [12:51] me too, mianly from habit, although when i have to use a windows VDI session i get annoyed [12:51] I think gnome3 is pretty slick [12:51] i tried gnome3 for 6 months and couldn't hack it [12:51] no looking back from elementary after it released [12:52] * zmoylan-pi sticks with xfce for now [12:54] foobarry: Did you pay or did you cheat the system by stealing the F/OSS OS? :-P [12:55] I had elementary running on my macbook air .. [12:55] (bare metal) [12:55] it wuzzz perfect ! [12:56] past tense? [12:56] funny about the elementary pay comments when i'm prety sure ubuntu tried that pay suggestion page for a while [12:57] not quite the same [12:57] they're similar, sure. [12:57] foobarry: wasn't there an uproar about it years ago? they still going on about it now? [12:57] the comments about elementary were because they posted a blog entry telling people that they're "cheating" by downloading for zero [12:57] the ubuntu one is still there, and we still get donations from it [12:57] I don't think Canoncial insulted folks.... [12:58] which we use to fund lots of things [12:58] (including community developers going to conferences, hardware, event packages etc) [12:58] popey: didn't they reword the blog almost immediately [12:59] no, it took a lot of flak before they re-worded it [12:59] they mainly encourage adding $$ to bountysource [12:59] the same day though [12:59] They also are a little creative with the truth about where the money goes [12:59] i didn't even get to read the original as it happened and changed in a night i think [12:59] https://www.bountysource.com/teams/elementary [12:59] yeah, i think cassidy posted it and then went to bed [13:00] as long as its not abused, then bountysource is a good idea [13:00] It's a very pretty desktop, and they've got some nice touches. [13:00] although i hope it doesn't mean that other bugs don't get fixed [13:01] shame they fell out with joey omg as omg got a lot more boring since then [13:01] (about 3 years ago now) [13:01] they did? [13:01] didn't know that. [13:01] yeah [13:01] got a bit frosty [13:01] they are on talking terms again now [13:01] but at one point it was a bit awkward [13:02] joey used to promote them all the time , most days [13:02] i think joey gets flak from readers for talking about !ubuntu [13:03] mind you he gets flak from everyone [13:03] i think the disagreement was related to people (inc joey) who suggested they do a ppa for easy access to elementary but the e guys had their goal of making distinct OS [13:07] i gues elemetnary just started as a cool theme back in the day [13:08] yeah [13:08] having a ppa would dilute their brand [13:08] it still feels like it pretty much is a ppa? it still uses the ubuntu repos, just adds theirs too [13:08] lots of dinstrict things now though [13:08] everything is different [13:08] if you install freya, you get ubuntu packages and their ppa [13:08] even the greeter, terminal, window manager, etc [13:08] although I dont see any doc on how they made the iso [13:09] so no way of knowing what else is in there [13:09] you can build yourself, [13:09] ubuntu + ppa ? [13:09] since thats what teh kiddies were doing pre release [13:09] I had a poke around with it, fairly superficially, but noticed they're still using the normal repo, that's all [13:09] all the desktop env is not common to ubuntu though [13:09] this is one reason why I think cinnamon got rid of their stable ppa. [13:10] because if you make it too easy to install your special sauce on ubuntu, what's the point of you existing? [13:10] someone could do as we did with ubuntu mate, and create a derivative which bypasses them [13:10] I think that would worry them. [13:10] make it easy = more users [13:10] separate iso = different brand different ideologoy [13:11] stop telling your uses they're pirates = more users [13:11] what prevents anyone from just downloading all the src debs and putting them in a ppa? [13:11] do we know for sure every package on the iso came from the ppa or archive? [13:11] if so, yeah, anyone could do that [13:11] if we don't know that, why don't we know that? [13:12] i think u guys are looking for issues where there aren't any [13:12] i think the issue is more with ubuntu [13:12] i ran ubuntu+ppa= elementary for ages [13:12] I'm not looking for any issues. [13:12] it should be reproducable and self-hosting [13:12] and realised some stuff didn't work right (notifications , screen lock etc) [13:12] make ur own iso and be different, [13:13] not just another ubuntu [13:13] i should be able to apt-get install launchpad and have it ready to squeeze out ISOs in under a day [13:13] and those ISOs should be binary identical to the official ones [13:13] launchpad doesn't build ISOs [13:13] it does however build all the packages in those ISOs [13:13] indeed. [13:13] but the isos are built elsewhere [13:13] !info germinate [13:13] bah [13:14] germinate (source: germinate): expand dependencies in a list of seed packages. In component main, is optional. Version 2.18 (utopic), package size 19 kB, installed size 89 kB [13:14] and other stuff :) [13:16] it's good that debian is starting to adopt the reproducible build stuff [13:17] https://reproducible.debian.net/unstable/stats_pkg_state.png [13:22] mono 4 is reproducible by default, that's a couple of hundred more packages once it goes into the archive [13:25] ali1234: did you see my proof-of-concept for inserting a backdoor into debian, and why reproducible builds would help? [13:25] no [13:26] http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2wz8gp/debian_working_on_reproducible_builds/covlz8r === michelle is now known as Guest87284 [13:29] directhex_: why would you want a back door? [13:29] proof of concept [13:29] ah [13:30] MooDoo: i wouldn't personally. but an "evil" debian developer could inject whatever they liked into packages used by thousands or millions of people [13:30] directhex_: i was speed reading and missed the important part lol [13:30] an apache patch which accepts a special handshake to give local access, fr'example [13:30] directhex_: you are proposing test rebuilds of all binaries and checking hashes? [13:30] MooDoo: to get into the garden normally :P [13:30] foobarry: he's not proposing it, debian is [13:30] foobarry: the reproducible builds project proposes this [13:31] foobarry: we altered mono's compiler to support it [13:31] oh, i read your comment but not the link :D [13:31] directhex_: just wated a video about debian LTS was quite interesting shame they don't have the money or the amount of developers [13:31] "Debian is working on a new project named “reproducible builds” with the stated goal – It should be possible to reproduce, byte for byte, every build of every package in Debian. " [13:31] davmor2: shush you lol [13:31] i assumed/thought that was already in place... [13:31] foobarry: not even close unfortunately [13:31] foobarry: nope [13:32] foobarry: for the mono example (which i'm most familiar with), .net binaries contain a timestamp, and a GUID, when compiled [13:32] far too many things embed the hostname of the build machine too [13:33] surprised debian accepts binaries - the binaries that get put on an iso are surely builds from source though? [13:33] foobarry: nope! [13:33] oh [13:33] launchpad does though? [13:33] yes! [13:33] which is probably where my assumption came from, and redhat/centos [13:33] all launchpad builds are from source... assuming you trust the launchpad sysadmin ^_^ [13:35] i couldn foresee a situation where something bad happens and everyone says "how could this have been allowed to happen!" [13:35] could* [13:35] in debian [13:35] there was a debian talk at fosdem this year where this was discussed (among other things) [13:35] and the "dirty secret" that some packages in the debian archive were built on developer machines [13:35] not on buildds [13:35] yay my grass seed and fork arrived. [13:36] http://video.fosdem.org/2015/devroom-distributions/distributions_boring_solved_problem.mp4 [13:36] almsot every package, in fact [13:37] the debian archive *requires* that devs submit binary packages. the buildd network will compile on other arches as needed [13:37] e.g. for mono, i compile on my amd64 laptop, which generates amd64 and arch-independent packages. the debian buildd network does the arm, mips, etc, builds [13:38] so for every package, one arch (usually amd64 or i386) was done on the developer's pc [13:38] blimey, didn't realise it was as "bad" as that [13:38] this status quo hasn't been fixed, for 2 reasons: 1) there are 3 packages that cannot be built on amd64 or i386, but are arch:all once compiled. and we have no way to represent this state in a build-everything-on-debian-infra way [13:39] 2) it's felt that without requiring binaries, devs might upload buggy source packages that don't in fact compile [13:40] today i learned what a hoe is for [13:43] nice [13:43] for growing pumpkins in minecraft [13:43] apparently its the ideal tool for removing small weeds in your shrub beds [13:44] my life will never be the same [13:47] foobarry: i'm with popey ;) [13:48] one day i'll actually play MC [13:48] when its free on android [13:48] * bashrc_ has never played MC [13:50] foobarry: it's also useful for quickly chopping in fertiliser to help plant grow too [13:50] ah, nice [13:50] or grass seed perhaps? [13:51] foobarry: no you don't plant grass you lay it on top [13:51] * diddledan restrains comments about hoes [13:51] dutch hoes no less [13:51] oh myy [13:52] reminds me of the story of the lad with his finger [13:52] foobarry: then you spend an age trying to stop the bird eating it all [13:52] lol [13:52] i bought a net [14:03] oooh, just got home to find new phone waiting for me [14:03] what'd ya get? [14:03] this ubuntu one. I was nosey [14:03] heh [14:06] oh. I need a new simcard though. oops [14:07] heh [14:07] there's too many different sizes these days [14:11] i use scissors [14:11] i'll be moving over to my ubuntu phone fulltime [14:11] scissors won't make my card bigger [14:14] been locked out of my account 5 times in 2 days :( [14:14] my work account [14:17] hm. reboot loop. oops [14:21] shauno: feel free to join #ubuntu-touch if you want to shout at ubuntu phone devs :) [14:22] lol, not yet. I want to play with it enough that I'm not just whining because it's different [14:22] well, a boot loop is an issue :) [14:22] (although yes, first boot, into the indicators, it told me I had to upgrade, so I did. it never came back) [14:23] well, not 'had to', but I figure it's usually a good idea because your platforms itterate fast [14:23] never came back? [14:25] it gets to the bq screen, then just flashes on and off like a belisha beacon [14:25] so I did up&power until it gave me a little text menu, tried 'normal boot', it did it again. so this time I'm trying 'recovery', which I'm assuming is the sadface [14:27] hm, nope, recovery goes back to the belisha beacon, just takes longer to get there [14:28] would be helpful to raise this in #ubuntu-touch [14:28] so we can a) debug and b) fix [14:28] fair enough. gonna go for coffee first though. let it sit and think [14:28] with so few buttons, it seems your options are "press things" or "leave it alone". and I've already tried the first [14:39] push all the things! [14:49] get on a webcam and stream it to the phone chan [14:50] heh, it's back [14:50] I think perhaps the upgrade/reboot process is just quite noisy .. it just doesn't look convincing [14:51] getting there :) trying to put an imap client on now (it comes with gmail but not email :( [14:54] wait, gmail isn't email? [14:54] :-p [14:54] [14:54] don't get me started :p [14:58] popey: the audio on that fosdem video you posted is terrible - it's silent and then suddenly REALLY LOUD BREATHING and then silent again [14:59] popey: the ubuntu podcast does way better than that :-D === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [15:01] lol, I just found popey in the store [15:01] yey? [15:01] what's he doing in the store? [15:01] can you watch him browsing through the shelveS? [15:01] telling me the weather, it seems [15:01] I assume it's the same pope, it has that little confused smiley face [15:02] is it inappropriate to call popey the holy papa? [15:02] yes. you're creepy enough when you're trying not to be [15:03] lol [15:03] .. since when have I ever tried not to be creepy? [15:12] diddledan: you couldn't if you tried [15:31] pft, I need ubuntu to use the ubuntu-sdk? people yell at apple for that :p [15:34] you can use vim and adb [15:35] adb is in the android sdk? I think it'll be easier to stick ubuntu in a VM lol [15:39] its in the repo [15:39] and the sdk ppa [15:41] ah ok. I found the instructions, but still installing ubuntu so hadn't go that far [15:55] could someone remind me again how I can find the old kernel packages I can remove to free up space from /boot+ [15:56] * bashrc_ wonders why /boot isn't bigger by default [15:56] because I made it that way, probably [15:56] sudo apt-get autoremove? [15:56] apt-get autoremove will remove some older ones, but if you've really got some old cruft on there you should use... [15:56] I've also had the same issue in the past. There is a way of clearing out old kernels [15:56] "dpkg -l | grep linux-image" [15:57] or just look in /boot and and remove linux-image-3.x.0-##-generic for example [15:57] i got 1/4 gb back when i ran it :-) [15:57] but these days it's not as if we're pushed for HDD/SDD space, so I don't know why that partition isn't made bigger by default [15:57] /boot hasn't been a partition for years [15:57] it is if you've got encryption [15:58] in fact i'm not even sure if the installer ever made it one [15:58] yes [15:58] well yeah but you have only to look at the number of tears falling down peoples faces in #ubuntu to have feelings about encryption there :D [15:58] I always use full disk encryption these days [15:58] plus its' major bugs such as yeah - making a tiny /boot [15:59] The upgrade needs a total of 99,0 M free space on disk '/boot'. Please free at least an additional 20,5 M of disk space on '/boot'. Empty your trash and remove temporary packages of former installations using 'sudo apt-get clean'. [15:59] bah [16:00] Myrtti: yeah, so list the kernels? :) [16:00] I suggest that this kind of stuff should be automatic these days [16:00] or you might have root 5% reserved on which'd take some [16:01] a quick tune2fs to disable that might help a tiny bit [16:01] well it is with autoremove - but you can't go stealing someones older kernels automatically :) you need a fallback sometimes [16:02] true, but the average user probably doesn't need to keep five kernels and when this problem occurs it breaks system updates [16:03] only for those with nuts partitioning :> so as long as the encrypted /boot size has been fixed in the installer, it should be good [16:04] I swear to god I already uninstalled these once [16:04] use purge perhaps [16:05] i did have someone the other day who i told to remove them, then they were still there in /boot - was a bit weird [16:05] yeah, purge is a given [16:06] i don't think so, not normally necessary [16:42] m/me listening to Stairway to Heaven LOUD why cause it's still sounds great :D [16:42] -m at front don't know where that came from [16:44] that's the keyboard vibrating under your hands... [16:51] :> [16:51] * daftykins does a Waynes World and points at the "No Stairway" sign in the music shop [16:57] denied... [17:02] 404: Stairway not found [17:02] hahaha [17:02] i finally reinstalled my web server VM to trusty last night \o/ [17:03] very smooth just scp'ing over the document root, setting up a clean install with the same passwords then a quick mysql dump of the database and restore [17:03] but my word how the apache2 configs have changed since 10.04 :P [17:04] ok i want to see this film :-D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RqpItxd8M&feature=youtu.be [17:04] can you say what it is so i don't have to click? ;) [17:05] daftykins: is 10.04 Apache 2.0 ? [17:06] and miss out the supreme 80ness and cliche ridden wonderfull ness of kung fury?? :-) [17:06] reminds me of one I heard re: traffic volumes. a highway to hell vs a stairway to heaven [17:06] intrbiz: yip === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOW [17:28] curious, does android have a swipe-action on every edge like this too? [17:28] like this? ubuntu touch? [17:29] yeah [17:29] not on its own, but there is certain sw to add similer, yes. [17:30] like gmd gesturecontrol. [17:33] hm, okay. just curious where they got that idea from. most of it's pretty logical, bar that [17:33] where did I see someone giving a tip on Chrome on HiDPI? [17:34] was it popey [17:34] no [17:34] it was yesterday or today... gah === Krenair is now known as Maybe_Krenair === Maybe_Krenair is now known as Krenair [18:09] well, I'm curious to see what I can build on it. but I'm not sure I'll actually use it as a phone. the UI is just way too combersome [18:14] MooDoo, popey: you guys should be owld enough to know the lyrics "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and style" [18:19]