[00:01] <ball> I'm using Ubuntu for the first time in quite a long while.
[00:04] <ball> For the most part I like it.
[00:05] <ball> It seems to work well on my daughter's computer.
[00:10] <ball> brb
[00:11] <diddledan> hmm, phpmyadmin just surprised me - I created a database and a database_dev and it grouped them in the interface
[00:18] <m0nkey_> it does that
[00:18] <m0nkey_> has done for a while
[00:18] <diddledan> I've not used it in forever
[00:19] <ball> Wht does a database_dev do?
[00:20]  * m0nkey_ thorws ball the extra I and L to attach to the word.
[00:23] <ball> I /knew/ there was something dodgy about database people! ;-)
[00:24] <diddledan> ball: I meant database as a generic term for a named database - the point was the _dev was appended to the name of another database
[00:24] <diddledan> so I created <databasename> and <databasename>_dev
[00:25] <ball> Oh, does _dev just signify the development version of a database?
[00:26] <diddledan> it's purely semantic - I just chose _dev arbitrarily to mean just that
[00:26] <m0nkey_> diddledan, http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608025
[00:26]  * ball nods
[00:26] <ball> I get it now. Thanks for explaining.
[00:26] <m0nkey_> Weird cpu cooler
[00:26] <m0nkey_> I ordered
[00:26] <diddledan> o_O
[00:27] <diddledan> double decker!
[00:27] <m0nkey_> 120mm & 92mm fans
[00:27] <diddledan> that really is weird
[00:27] <m0nkey_> they say it's comptable with my board, hopefully it is
[00:28] <m0nkey_> In fact, I ordered two different ones. This is the second.
[00:28] <m0nkey_> Turned out the first I ordered wasn't suitable for my TDP
[00:28] <diddledan> :-(
[00:28] <m0nkey_> I got to return the first one. Which would have been perfect.
[00:31] <m0nkey_> My case is already full of Noctua fans
[00:31] <m0nkey_> I'm kinda a fan (heh, get it?) of Noctua
[00:33] <m0nkey_> I found the stock Intel cooler not to be up to snuff
[00:34] <m0nkey_> Especially for gaming
[00:34] <m0nkey_> However, I have the same Intel cooler in my NAS which has a E3 Xeon. That one seems to be just fine.
[00:44] <ball> Oh that's weird. I quite Rhythmbox but it's still playing music.
[00:44] <m0nkey_> It does that
[00:44] <ball> I HUPped it.
[00:45] <ball> That put it out of its misery.
[00:45] <m0nkey_> Why? Go to the volume control and stop it
[00:45] <m0nkey_> HUP is more reload, TERM is to shutdown gracefully
[00:45] <m0nkey_> -9 is BURN IT WITH FIRE!
[00:45] <diddledan> -9 == -KILL?
[00:46] <m0nkey_> kill -9
[00:46] <m0nkey_> Basically pull the rug from under it's feet.
[00:46] <diddledan> no, I mean `kill -9` == `kill -KILL`?
[00:46] <m0nkey_> -TERM is happier
[00:46] <m0nkey_> -9 or -KILL... -9 is shorter :D
[01:57] <ball> m0nkey_: HUP did the job.
[01:57] <ball> HUP is a hang-up, which is what I wanted.
[01:58] <ball> Does ubuntu ship with a GUI-based text editor?
[01:58] <ball> (with search and replace)?
[01:59] <ball> Oh, found it.
[01:59] <diddledan> gedit
[02:00] <zmoylan-pi> and about 50,000 more are available...
[02:07] <m0nkey_> vim-gtk
[02:07] <ball> gedit worked.
[06:10] <knightwise> morning peeps
[07:53] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:53] <directhex_> yes, it is!
[07:53] <directhex_> new car day :D
[07:53] <MooDoo> yay
[08:25] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:03] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Bat Appreciation Day! :-D
[09:06] <directhex_> more importantly, happy directhex's new car day
[09:07] <JamesTait> And happy JamesTait's new MTB drivetrain day. :)
[09:10] <davmor2> JamesTait: close enough right https://www.pinterest.com/pin/135319163775397306/ ← popey you'll like this one :)
[09:10] <popey> catman
[09:11] <davmor2> popey: that has to be it's name and do you think they go in the garden and shout "Dinner, Dinner, Dinner, Dinner Catman" to call hime in?
[09:12] <davmor2> -e
[09:15] <foobarry> http://boingboing.net/2015/04/16/scythe-vs-weedwhacker.html
[09:15] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:17] <JamesTait> davmor2, nice! :)
[09:17] <foobarry> well, i liked all of the origami except the winner which was lame!
[09:21] <davmor2> JamesTait: sneaky see nearly caterday so drop in cat on bat appreciation day :D
[09:22] <popey> the winner had more 'likes'
[09:22] <foobarry> ah that old chestnut
[09:23] <foobarry> i think thats why people often do "the 5 with most likes will be entered into a final where the judges choose"
[09:23] <popey> yeah, that would have been better
[09:24] <foobarry> but hey, its a free comp
[09:24] <foobarry> they can do what they like
[09:25] <foobarry> i was gonna do a unicorn and airbrush the completed thing it in rainbow colours but i got sick :(
[10:20] <diddledan> morning
[10:21] <popey> Yes.
[10:21] <shauno> :(
[10:22] <shauno> this morning seems to be filled with nonsensical tickets from strange countries. I was in no way prepared for this when I crawled out of bed.
[10:22] <diddledan> lol
[10:22] <shauno> Subject: objects fled far away
[10:22] <shauno> "Dear Colleagues, recently I faced with the problem that some of our customers moved in Afghanistan, but they were in Russia. When I try to return object in the desired Russia it disappeared. Have someone of you have this problem and is it a possibility to return the object back."
[10:23] <shauno> (I wouldn't bother reading it twice, it doesn't seem to help)
[10:23] <diddledan> err
[10:26] <zmoylan-pi> send them a cardboard box and a few stamps? :-)
[10:28] <shauno> well, I think there's a very obvious answer.  I'm just struggling to put it into polite terms.
[10:28] <zmoylan-pi> ah well, if you're polite the message has no chance to penetrate that skull...
[10:41] <foobarry> write an asnwer and then google translate it into another language and then back again
[10:42] <zmoylan-pi> or run it through 3 different languages to maximise the distortion
[11:39] <MooDoo> yay
[11:40] <zmoylan-pi> realised it's friday or discovered a fiver in pocket you didn't know you had...
[11:44] <davmor2> popey, JamesTait : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2DCExerOsA a suggestion for the name of the release :D
[11:58] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Wibbling Walrus?
[12:01] <foobarry> woolly woofter?
[12:01] <foobarry> (1980s schoolboy insult)
[12:02] <TwistedLucidity> Wacky Wombat
[12:10] <TwistedLucidity> So I tried some ramdisk network transfers and got ~71MB/s. About 50% of network capacity. A wee bitty better, still suspect I have some config issues.
[12:21] <knightwise> Elementary Freya = prrrretty !
[12:21] <knightwise> have the vm running on a 29 inch widescreen monitor (fullscreen) and its gorgeous
[12:22] <knightwise> and pretty snappy too!
[12:24] <foobarry> yeah its lovely
[12:24] <foobarry> one feature i like is..
[12:25] <foobarry> you get notifications on actions that you ran in the terminal if you susequently switch windows
[12:26] <foobarry> e.g. apt-get dist-upgrade, start using chrome in full screen, get a little notification to say the upgrade finished
[12:26] <foobarry> also ctrl-c and ctrl-v work in terminal as copy paste in context aware manner
[12:34] <knightwise> that is SOO pretty
[12:36] <foobarry> maybe compiz conditioned me into expecting poor performance, but its super fast too innit?
[12:36] <foobarry> try it on bare metal...
[12:39] <ali1234> ctrl-c copies in the terminal??
[12:40] <ali1234> have we found a desktop even more stupid than GNOME?
[12:40] <zmoylan-pi> that would be nice
[12:40] <davmor2> foobarry: unity8 is much faster than unity7 too :)
[12:41] <ali1234> everything is faster than compiz
[12:46] <TwistedLucidity> I remember checking it out a while back (pre-Freya). It did look good.
[12:46] <TwistedLucidity> CTRL-C/V in the terminal catches me out all the time
[12:46] <zmoylan-pi> it should *just* work :-)
[12:47] <foobarry> ali1234: its context aware
[12:47] <foobarry> http://www.veeam.com/endpoint-backup-free.html << for you windows users
[12:48] <ali1234> i don't really see how it can be context aware in a meaningful way
[12:48] <foobarry> . If there is some text selected and you press Ctrl+C it will copy the selected text to clipboard. If no text is selected the default behavior will be applied (end process signal will be sent).
[12:48] <TwistedLucidity> That's pretty neat. In a dangerous sort of way
[12:48] <foobarry> you can disable it if you wish,
[12:49] <foobarry> ctrl-c only kills a running command that isn't in background, which is usually poor practice
[12:49] <ali1234> i can see it going badly
[12:49] <foobarry> thats the kneejerks reaction
[12:49] <ali1234> if you want to copy something from the output of a running process
[12:50] <ali1234> and it scrolls when you are trying to select, clearing the selection
[12:50] <ali1234> and then you accidentally kill it
[12:50] <foobarry> measure twice , cut once, or use middle button :D
[12:50] <ali1234> i always use middle button
[12:50] <ali1234> hat's one reason why i don't like GNOME
[12:51] <foobarry> me too, mianly from habit, although when i have to use a windows VDI session i get annoyed
[12:51] <knightwise> I think gnome3 is pretty slick
[12:51] <foobarry> i tried gnome3 for 6 months and couldn't hack it
[12:51] <foobarry> no looking back from elementary after it released
[12:52]  * zmoylan-pi sticks with xfce for now
[12:54] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Did you pay or did you cheat the system by stealing the F/OSS OS? :-P
[12:55] <knightwise> I had elementary running on my macbook air ..
[12:55] <knightwise> (bare metal)
[12:55] <knightwise> it wuzzz perfect !
[12:56] <zmoylan-pi> past tense?
[12:56] <foobarry> funny about the elementary pay comments when i'm prety sure ubuntu tried that pay suggestion page for a while
[12:57] <popey> not quite the same
[12:57] <popey> they're similar, sure.
[12:57] <MooDoo> foobarry: wasn't there an uproar about it years ago?  they still going on about it now?
[12:57] <popey> the comments about elementary were because they posted a blog entry telling people that they're "cheating" by downloading for zero
[12:57] <popey> the ubuntu one is still there, and we still get donations from it
[12:57] <TwistedLucidity> I don't think Canoncial insulted folks....
[12:58] <popey> which we use to fund lots of things
[12:58] <popey> (including community developers going to conferences, hardware, event packages etc)
[12:58] <foobarry> popey: didn't they reword the blog almost immediately
[12:59] <popey> no, it took a lot of flak before they re-worded it
[12:59] <foobarry> they mainly encourage adding $$ to bountysource
[12:59] <foobarry> the same day though
[12:59] <popey> They also are a little creative with the truth about where the money goes
[12:59] <foobarry> i didn't even get to read the original as it happened and changed in a night i think
[12:59] <foobarry> https://www.bountysource.com/teams/elementary
[12:59] <popey> yeah, i think cassidy posted it and then went to bed
[13:00] <foobarry> as long as its not abused, then bountysource is a good idea
[13:00] <popey> It's a very pretty desktop, and they've got some nice touches.
[13:00] <foobarry> although i hope it doesn't mean that other bugs don't get fixed
[13:01] <foobarry> shame they fell out with joey omg as omg got a lot more boring since then
[13:01] <foobarry> (about 3 years ago now)
[13:01] <popey> they did?
[13:01] <popey> didn't know that.
[13:01] <foobarry> yeah
[13:01] <foobarry> got a bit frosty
[13:01] <foobarry> they are on talking terms again now
[13:01] <foobarry> but at one point it was a bit awkward
[13:02] <foobarry> joey used to promote them all the time , most days
[13:02] <popey> i think joey gets flak from readers for talking about !ubuntu
[13:03] <popey> mind you he gets flak from everyone
[13:03] <foobarry> i think the disagreement was related to people (inc joey) who suggested they do a ppa for easy access to elementary but the e guys had their goal of making distinct OS
[13:07] <foobarry> i gues elemetnary just started as a cool theme back in the day
[13:08] <popey> yeah
[13:08] <popey> having a ppa would dilute their brand
[13:08] <shauno> it still feels like it pretty much is a ppa?  it still uses the ubuntu repos, just adds theirs too
[13:08] <foobarry> lots of dinstrict things now though
[13:08] <foobarry> everything is different
[13:08] <popey> if you install freya, you get ubuntu packages and their ppa
[13:08] <foobarry> even the greeter, terminal, window manager, etc
[13:08] <popey> although I dont see any doc on how they made the iso
[13:09] <popey> so no way of knowing what else is in there
[13:09] <foobarry> you can build yourself,
[13:09] <popey> ubuntu + ppa ?
[13:09] <foobarry> since thats what teh kiddies were doing pre release
[13:09] <shauno> I had a poke around with it, fairly superficially, but noticed they're still using the normal repo, that's all
[13:09] <foobarry> all the desktop env is not common to ubuntu though
[13:09] <popey> this is one reason why I think cinnamon got rid of their stable ppa.
[13:10] <popey> because if you make it too easy to install your special sauce on ubuntu, what's the point of you existing?
[13:10] <popey> someone could do as we did with ubuntu mate, and create a derivative which bypasses them
[13:10] <popey> I think that would worry them.
[13:10] <foobarry> make it easy = more users
[13:10] <foobarry> separate iso = different brand different ideologoy
[13:11] <shauno> stop telling your uses they're pirates = more users
[13:11] <ali1234> what prevents anyone from just downloading all the src debs and putting them in a ppa?
[13:11] <popey> do we know for sure every package on the iso came from the ppa or archive?
[13:11] <popey> if so, yeah, anyone could do that
[13:11] <ali1234> if we don't know that, why don't we know that?
[13:12] <foobarry> i think u guys are looking for issues where there aren't any
[13:12] <ali1234> i think the issue is more with ubuntu
[13:12] <foobarry> i ran ubuntu+ppa= elementary for ages
[13:12] <popey> I'm not looking for any issues.
[13:12] <ali1234> it should be reproducable and self-hosting
[13:12] <foobarry> and realised some stuff didn't work right (notifications , screen lock etc)
[13:12] <foobarry> make ur own iso and be different,
[13:13] <foobarry> not just another ubuntu
[13:13] <ali1234> i should be able to apt-get install launchpad and have it ready to squeeze out ISOs in under a day
[13:13] <ali1234> and those ISOs should be binary identical to the official ones
[13:13] <popey> launchpad doesn't build ISOs
[13:13] <ali1234> it does however build all the packages in those ISOs
[13:13] <popey> indeed.
[13:13] <popey> but the isos are built elsewhere
[13:13] <popey> !info germinate
[13:13] <popey> bah
[13:14] <lubotu3`> germinate (source: germinate): expand dependencies in a list of seed packages. In component main, is optional. Version 2.18 (utopic), package size 19 kB, installed size 89 kB
[13:14] <popey> and other stuff :)
[13:16] <ali1234> it's good that debian is starting to adopt the reproducible build stuff
[13:17] <ali1234> https://reproducible.debian.net/unstable/stats_pkg_state.png
[13:22] <directhex_> mono 4 is reproducible by default, that's a couple of hundred more packages once it goes into the archive
[13:25] <directhex_> ali1234: did you see my proof-of-concept for inserting a backdoor into debian, and why reproducible builds would help?
[13:25] <ali1234> no
[13:26] <directhex_> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2wz8gp/debian_working_on_reproducible_builds/covlz8r
[13:29] <MooDoo> directhex_: why would you want a back door?
[13:29] <popey> proof of concept
[13:29] <MooDoo> ah
[13:30] <directhex_> MooDoo: i wouldn't personally. but an "evil" debian developer could inject whatever they liked into packages used by thousands or millions of people
[13:30] <MooDoo> directhex_: i was speed reading and missed the important part lol
[13:30] <directhex_> an apache patch which accepts a special handshake to give local access, fr'example
[13:30] <foobarry> directhex_: you are proposing test rebuilds of all binaries and checking hashes?
[13:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: to get into the garden normally :P
[13:30] <ali1234> foobarry: he's not proposing it, debian is
[13:30] <directhex_> foobarry: the reproducible builds project proposes this
[13:31] <directhex_> foobarry: we altered mono's compiler to support it
[13:31] <foobarry> oh, i read your comment but not the link :D
[13:31] <MooDoo> directhex_: just wated a video about debian LTS was quite interesting shame they don't have the money or the amount of developers
[13:31] <foobarry> "Debian is working on a new project named “reproducible builds” with the stated goal – It should be possible to reproduce, byte for byte, every build of every package in Debian. "
[13:31] <MooDoo> davmor2: shush you lol
[13:31] <foobarry> i assumed/thought that was already in place...
[13:31] <ali1234> foobarry: not even close unfortunately
[13:31] <directhex_> foobarry: nope
[13:32] <directhex_> foobarry: for the mono example (which i'm most familiar with), .net binaries contain a timestamp, and a GUID, when compiled
[13:32] <ali1234> far too many things embed the hostname of the build machine too
[13:33] <foobarry> surprised debian accepts binaries - the binaries that get put on an iso are surely builds from source though?
[13:33] <directhex_> foobarry: nope!
[13:33] <foobarry> oh
[13:33] <foobarry> launchpad does though?
[13:33] <directhex_> yes!
[13:33] <foobarry> which is probably where my assumption came from, and redhat/centos
[13:33] <directhex_> all launchpad builds are from source... assuming you trust the launchpad sysadmin ^_^
[13:35] <foobarry> i couldn foresee a situation where something bad happens and everyone says "how could this have been allowed to happen!"
[13:35] <foobarry> could*
[13:35] <foobarry> in debian
[13:35] <popey> there was a debian talk at fosdem this year where this was discussed (among other things)
[13:35] <popey> and the "dirty secret" that some packages in the debian archive were built on developer machines
[13:35] <popey> not on buildds
[13:35] <foobarry> yay my grass seed and fork arrived.
[13:36] <popey> http://video.fosdem.org/2015/devroom-distributions/distributions_boring_solved_problem.mp4
[13:36] <directhex_> almsot every package, in fact
[13:37] <directhex_> the debian archive *requires* that devs submit binary packages. the buildd network will compile on other arches as needed
[13:37] <directhex_> e.g. for mono, i compile on my amd64 laptop, which generates amd64 and arch-independent packages. the debian buildd network does the arm, mips, etc, builds
[13:38] <directhex_> so for every package, one arch (usually amd64 or i386) was done on the developer's pc
[13:38] <popey> blimey, didn't realise it was as "bad" as that
[13:38] <directhex_> this status quo hasn't been fixed, for 2 reasons: 1) there are 3 packages that cannot be built on amd64 or i386, but are arch:all once compiled. and we have no way to represent this state in a build-everything-on-debian-infra way
[13:39] <directhex_> 2) it's felt that without requiring binaries, devs might upload buggy source packages that don't in fact compile
[13:40] <foobarry> today i learned what a hoe is for
[13:43] <bashrc_> nice
[13:43] <popey> for growing pumpkins in minecraft
[13:43] <foobarry> apparently its the ideal tool for removing small weeds in your shrub beds
[13:44] <foobarry> my life will never be the same
[13:47] <MooDoo> foobarry: i'm with popey ;)
[13:48] <foobarry> one day i'll actually play MC
[13:48] <foobarry> when its free on android
[13:48]  * bashrc_ has never played MC
[13:50] <davmor2> foobarry: it's also useful for quickly chopping in fertiliser to help plant grow too
[13:50] <foobarry> ah, nice
[13:50] <foobarry> or grass seed perhaps?
[13:51] <davmor2> foobarry: no you don't plant grass you lay it on top
[13:51]  * diddledan restrains comments about hoes
[13:51] <foobarry> dutch hoes no less
[13:51] <diddledan> oh myy
[13:52] <diddledan> reminds me of the story of the lad with his finger
[13:52] <davmor2> foobarry: then you spend an age trying to stop the bird eating it all
[13:52] <diddledan> lol
[13:52] <foobarry> i bought a net
[14:03] <shauno> oooh, just got home to find new phone waiting for me
[14:03] <diddledan> what'd ya get?
[14:03] <shauno> this ubuntu one.  I was nosey
[14:03] <diddledan> heh
[14:06] <shauno> oh. I need a new simcard though.  oops
[14:07] <diddledan> heh
[14:07] <diddledan> there's too many different sizes these days
[14:11] <foobarry> i use scissors
[14:11] <knightwise> i'll be moving over to my ubuntu phone fulltime
[14:11] <shauno> scissors won't make my card bigger
[14:14] <foobarry> been locked out of my account 5 times in 2 days :(
[14:14] <foobarry> my work account
[14:17] <shauno> hm.  reboot loop.  oops
[14:21] <popey> shauno: feel free to join #ubuntu-touch if you want to shout at ubuntu phone devs :)
[14:22] <shauno> lol, not yet.  I want to play with it enough that I'm not just whining because it's different
[14:22] <popey> well, a boot loop is an issue :)
[14:22] <shauno> (although yes, first boot, into the indicators, it told me I had to upgrade, so I did.  it never came back)
[14:23] <shauno> well, not 'had to', but I figure it's usually a good idea because your platforms itterate fast
[14:23] <popey> never came back?
[14:25] <shauno> it gets to the bq screen, then just flashes on and off like a belisha beacon
[14:25] <shauno> so I did up&power until it gave me a little text menu, tried 'normal boot', it did it again.  so this time I'm trying 'recovery', which I'm assuming is the sadface
[14:27] <shauno> hm, nope, recovery goes back to the belisha beacon, just takes longer to get there
[14:28] <popey> would be helpful to raise this in #ubuntu-touch
[14:28] <popey> so we can a) debug and b) fix
[14:28] <shauno> fair enough.  gonna go for coffee first though.  let it sit and think
[14:28] <shauno> with so few buttons, it seems your options are "press things" or "leave it alone".  and I've already tried the first
[14:39] <diddledan> push all the things!
[14:49] <foobarry> get on a webcam and stream it to the phone chan
[14:50] <shauno> heh, it's back
[14:50] <shauno> I think perhaps the upgrade/reboot process is just quite noisy .. it just doesn't look convincing
[14:51] <shauno> getting there :)  trying to put an imap client on now  (it comes with gmail but not email :(
[14:54] <diddledan> wait, gmail isn't email?
[14:54] <diddledan> :-p

[14:54] <shauno> don't get me started :p
[14:58] <diddledan> popey: the audio on that fosdem video you posted is terrible - it's silent and then suddenly REALLY LOUD BREATHING and then silent again
[14:59] <diddledan> popey: the ubuntu podcast does way better than that :-D
[15:01] <shauno> lol, I just found popey in the store
[15:01] <diddledan> yey?
[15:01] <diddledan> what's he doing in the store?
[15:01] <diddledan> can you watch him browsing through the shelveS?
[15:01] <shauno> telling me the weather, it seems
[15:01] <shauno> I assume it's the same pope, it has that little confused smiley face
[15:02] <diddledan> is it inappropriate to call popey the holy papa?
[15:02] <shauno> yes.  you're creepy enough when you're trying not to be
[15:03] <diddledan> lol
[15:03] <diddledan> .. since when have I ever tried not to be creepy?
[15:12] <knightwise> diddledan: you couldn't if you tried
[15:31] <shauno> pft, I need ubuntu to use the ubuntu-sdk?  people yell at apple for that :p
[15:34] <popey> you can use vim and adb
[15:35] <shauno> adb is in the android sdk?  I think it'll be easier to stick ubuntu in a VM  lol
[15:39] <popey> its in the repo
[15:39] <popey> and the sdk ppa
[15:41] <shauno> ah ok.  I found the instructions, but still installing ubuntu so hadn't go that far
[15:55] <Myrtti> could someone remind me again how I can find the old kernel packages I can remove to free up space from /boot+
[15:56]  * bashrc_ wonders why /boot isn't bigger by default
[15:56] <Myrtti> because I made it that way, probably
[15:56] <zmoylan-pi> sudo apt-get autoremove?
[15:56] <daftykins> apt-get autoremove will remove some older ones, but if you've really got some old cruft on there you should use...
[15:56] <bashrc_> I've also had the same issue in the past. There is a way of clearing out old kernels
[15:56] <daftykins> "dpkg -l | grep linux-image"
[15:57] <daftykins> or just look in /boot and and remove linux-image-3.x.0-##-generic for example
[15:57] <zmoylan-pi> i got 1/4 gb back when i ran it :-)
[15:57] <bashrc_> but these days it's not as if we're pushed for HDD/SDD space, so I don't know why that partition isn't made bigger by default
[15:57] <daftykins>  /boot hasn't been a partition for years
[15:57] <Myrtti> it is if you've got encryption
[15:58] <daftykins> in fact i'm not even sure if the installer ever made it one
[15:58] <bashrc_> yes
[15:58] <daftykins> well yeah but you have only to look at the number of tears falling down peoples faces in #ubuntu to have feelings about encryption there :D
[15:58] <bashrc_> I always use full disk encryption these days
[15:58] <daftykins> plus its' major bugs such as yeah - making a tiny /boot
[15:59] <Myrtti> The upgrade needs a total of 99,0 M free space on disk '/boot'. Please free at least an additional 20,5 M of disk space on '/boot'. Empty your trash and remove temporary packages of former installations using 'sudo apt-get clean'.
[15:59] <Myrtti> bah
[16:00] <daftykins> Myrtti: yeah, so list the kernels? :)
[16:00] <bashrc_> I suggest that this kind of stuff should be automatic these days
[16:00] <daftykins> or you might have root 5% reserved on which'd take some
[16:01] <daftykins> a quick tune2fs to disable that might help a tiny bit
[16:01] <daftykins> well it is with autoremove - but you can't go stealing someones older kernels automatically :) you need a fallback sometimes
[16:02] <bashrc_> true, but the average user probably doesn't need to keep five kernels and when this problem occurs it breaks system updates
[16:03] <daftykins> only for those with nuts partitioning :> so as long as the encrypted /boot size has been fixed in the installer, it should be good
[16:04] <Myrtti> I swear to god I already uninstalled these once
[16:04] <daftykins> use purge perhaps
[16:05] <daftykins> i did have someone the other day who i told to remove them, then they were still there in /boot - was a bit weird
[16:05] <Myrtti> yeah, purge is a given
[16:06] <daftykins> i don't think so, not normally necessary
[16:42] <davmor2> m/me listening to Stairway to Heaven LOUD why cause it's still sounds great :D
[16:42] <davmor2> -m at front don't know where that came from
[16:44] <zmoylan-pi> that's the keyboard vibrating under your hands...
[16:51] <daftykins> :>
[16:51]  * daftykins does a Waynes World and points at the "No Stairway" sign in the music shop
[16:57] <zmoylan-pi> denied...
[17:02] <davmor2> 404: Stairway not found
[17:02] <daftykins> hahaha
[17:02] <daftykins> i finally reinstalled my web server VM to trusty last night \o/
[17:03] <daftykins> very smooth just scp'ing over the document root, setting up a clean install with the same passwords then a quick mysql dump of the database and restore
[17:03] <daftykins> but my word how the apache2 configs have changed since 10.04 :P
[17:04] <zmoylan-pi> ok i want to see this film :-D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RqpItxd8M&feature=youtu.be
[17:04] <daftykins> can you say what it is so i don't have to click? ;)
[17:05] <intrbiz> daftykins: is 10.04 Apache 2.0 ?
[17:06] <zmoylan-pi> and miss out the supreme 80ness and cliche ridden wonderfull ness of kung fury?? :-)
[17:06] <shauno> reminds me of one I heard re: traffic volumes.  a highway to hell vs a stairway to heaven
[17:06] <daftykins> intrbiz: yip
[17:28] <shauno> curious, does android have a swipe-action on every edge like this too?
[17:28] <brobostigon> like this? ubuntu touch?
[17:29] <shauno> yeah
[17:29] <brobostigon> not on its own, but there is certain sw to add similer, yes.
[17:30] <brobostigon> like gmd gesturecontrol.
[17:33] <shauno> hm, okay.  just curious where they got that idea from.  most of it's pretty logical, bar that
[17:33] <Myrtti> where did I see someone giving a tip on Chrome on HiDPI?
[17:34] <Myrtti> was it popey
[17:34] <popey> no
[17:34] <Myrtti> it was yesterday or today... gah
[18:09] <shauno> well, I'm curious to see what I can build on it.  but I'm not sure I'll actually use it as a phone.  the UI is just way too combersome
[18:14] <davmor2> MooDoo, popey: you guys should be owld enough to know the lyrics "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and style"
[18:19] <ali1234> shauno: the android camera app has edge swiping
[18:20] <ali1234> most apps don't have an action on every single edge
[18:20] <ali1234> most of the standard ones use the left edge for opening the sidebar
[18:20] <shauno> I think I'm just frustrated because the most common thing I find myself doing is repeatedly trying to hit the little < to go back a page
[18:21] <shauno> eg, read an email, go to read the next email .. you're stabbing tiny targets to get back to the mailbox
[18:21] <shauno> there's probably a lot of ios bias there where that's what I assume the left side is for
[18:22] <shauno> but I'm not sure it helps that while you can swipe left/right on the header bar in scopes, you can't do the same for the header bar anywhere else
[18:22] <ali1234> ingmail the left and right edges move to the previous/next email thread when in message view
[18:22] <ali1234> in mailbox view it opens the sidebar
[18:22] <ali1234> oh and you don't need to swipe from the edge
[18:23] <ali1234> also theres two back buttons, the OS one at the bottom and one in the top left
[18:23] <shauno> right, I'm on the ubuntu one .. no hardware back
[18:23] <ali1234> my phone can't reliably tell the difference between a swipe and a tap anyway
[18:23] <ali1234> oh yeah the ubuntu UI is a bit strange
[18:23] <ali1234> it used to be you had to swipe up from the bottom to open a menu before you could even see the back button
[18:24] <ali1234> i don't know what it's like these days but i heard they got rid of that bottom menu entirely
[18:25] <shauno> (I'd also love to know how to stop the 'vibrate any time I tap anything' thing.  I thought I turned it off in the settings, but a couple of apps still do it regardless)
[18:25] <ali1234> report bugs
[18:25] <ali1234> then go to irc and complain loudly
[18:26] <ali1234> then when they sarcastically ask if you reported a bug, whip out the URL
[18:41] <daftykins> ali1234: not very funny to enable #ubuntu-ees to act even more atrociously :(
[18:41] <daftykins> unless this is another thing :D
[18:42] <ali1234> what is ubuntu-ees?
[19:14] <diddledan> is it time to stop working yet?
[21:17] <diddledan> ooh, I got a reply from canonical legal :-)
[21:18] <diddledan> "we're looking into your request and will get back to you shortly"
[21:22] <intrbiz> diddledan: request for what?
[21:23] <diddledan> trademark usage
[21:27] <shauno> o_O
[21:30] <popey> for what?
[23:02] <ali1234> Azelphur: do you know of a self-hosted video streaming platform like twitch.tv?
[23:02] <ali1234> (or anyone else)