/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/04/20/#ubuntu-devel.txt

mwhudsonis there a x86_64-apple-darwin binutils hiding in the archive somewhere?04:20
dholbachgood morning06:55
pittiGood morning08:20
pittirbasak: what's the status of juju 1.23 for vivid? ISTR that last week you were about two packaging bugs away from it, right?09:00
pittirbasak: it's universe and not on any images, so we could potentially land it on Wed even, or SRU it too without much damange either09:00
rbasakpitti: there have been some regressions found in the current 1.23 beta, so upstream are holding the release right now and we don't want to upload it.09:01
pittirbasak: ack, thanks; so I'll move the milestone of bug 140963909:02
ubottubug 1409639 in juju-core (Ubuntu Vivid) "juju needs to support systemd for >= vivid" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140963909:02
rbasakpitti: upstream are pulling some new 1.23 features into a feature flag which should eliminate the regressions. But that means that 1.23 may need to land in an SRU.09:02
pittiit's got a MRE, so shouldn't pose any problem09:02
rbasakpitti: we're waiting on upstream who are working on resolving this at the moment.09:03
rbasakAck.09:03
pittirbasak: right; there's little pressure here, I just want to sanitize the 15.04 milestone so that we have something sensible to work against09:03
pittirbasak: thanks for confirming!09:03
pittiRiddell: hey Jonathan, how are you?09:05
pittiRiddell: do you still want to land bug 1372920 for vivid? if so, now is the time :)09:06
ubottubug 1372920 in kipi-plugins (Ubuntu Vivid) "kipi-plugins should depend on libkqoauth" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137292009:06
pittiapw: I suppose there won't be another kernel upload for vivid final, so should bug 1439706 be moved to vivid-updates, or to w-series?09:06
ubottubug 1439706 in linux (Ubuntu) "FFE: Ubuntu FAN networking support (for linux, iproute2 and ubuntu-fan)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/143970609:06
pittijdstrand: do you still want to remove the aa-easyprof workaroud for vivid final in bug 1378823 ?09:11
ubottubug 1378823 in apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "apparmor denial for bind on name="org.freedesktop.Application"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137882309:11
pittijdstrand: if so, please upload it today09:12
rbasakCan seeds do alternatives?09:35
ogra_alternatives are a postinst thing ...09:36
rbasak"ubuntu-minimal lists ntpdate as a dependency, such that ubuntu-minimal is uninstalled if you try to replace ntpdate with ntpd."09:36
rbasakogra_: I mean Depends: a | b09:36
infinityrbasak: ntpdate and ntp don't conflict...09:37
rbasakAs in "sbuild --resolve-alternatives"09:37
rbasakinfinity: I hadn't noted that. Thanks.09:37
infinityrbasak: It's perfectly reaonable (and, IMO, correct) to have both installed.09:37
rbasakI've just seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ntp/+bug/583994 and am thinking about how that might influence my plans to make ntpd default on (at least) server.09:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 583994 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Consider replacing ntpdate calls by 'ntpd -g'" [Medium,Triaged]09:38
infinityrbasak: ntpdate on boot for a (potentially large) jump to mostly correct, and ntpd to fix jitter.09:38
rbasakWith ntpdate deprecated, we should be calling ntpd only in either "keep running" or "fix once and stop" mode, with an optional "big jumps are OK" flag.09:38
ogra_i thought we'd switch to systemds timesyncd anyway09:38
infinityogra_: Ick.09:39
infinityrbasak: So, yeah, if ntpdate is going away, I'd argue that it should just depend on ntp and still have init scripts that invoke the ntpd one-shot behaviour.09:39
ogra_infinity, well, i think it is default in snappy already ...09:39
rbasakWhen I last looked, I saw no justification for timesyncd existing at all. The only documentation was the check in.09:40
infinityogra_: That's nice.09:40
ogra_and i doubt we want to maintainh both long term09:40
infinityogra_: "It's the default in snappy" doesn't inform my server decisions much. :P09:40
infinityogra_: We're never getting rid of ntpd, because people actually need ntp servers.09:40
ogra_oh, sure, but we'll likely get rid of ntpdate in if-up.d09:40
infinityogra_: *shrug*09:41
rbasakIf we want to move away from ntpd by default, I'd really like to see an actual justification of why the alternative is better. "systemd does it" is not enough for me.09:41
ogra_i'm only talking abouot the client side here09:41
infinityogra_: The "maintaining both" argument should treat tinesyncd as the "extra" copy here, not ntpd.09:41
rbasakI also don't want to delay ntp by default on server because some people want timesyncd with no real technical justification.09:41
infinityrbasak: timesyncd is arguably a slightly better (as in faster) one-shot client, but we need ntpd regardless, so meh.09:41
rbasakOh - it's one-shot only?09:42
infinityOh, it might also do ongoing client fun, not sure.09:42
infinityBut it's not ntpd, as in it can't act as a stratum server.09:42
ogra_rbasak, being the default of our now chosen init system isnt enough technical justification ... or "we get it for free anyway" isnt either ?09:42
infinitySo, ntpd won't die.09:42
infinityogra_: No, neither of those is a valid argument.09:43
infinityogra_: It also needs to not be crap.09:43
rbasakogra_: AIUI, the whole decision in Debian that made systemd the default deliberately did not pull the world of systemd in with it.09:43
infinityogra_: We're not using networkd either.09:43
rbasakogra_: it was an "init system only" discussion.09:43
infinityogra_: Just because it's in the systemd source tree doesn't mean we should use it.09:43
rbasakogra_: so in my mind if we're going to pull other components in, they need an independent justification.09:43
ogra_rbasak, oh, indeed it didnt pull the world with it ... but it will be a lot harder to stay diverged and do our own thing09:44
infinityWe're not "diverged".09:44
infinityntpd is not going away.  Period.09:44
ogra_i'm still talking about ntpdate :)09:44
infinitySo, it's a question between maintaining two things, or maintaining just one and turning off timesyncd.09:44
infinityogra_: ntpdate == ntpd, going forward.09:44
infinityWhich is what the bug is about.09:45
infinityrbasak: Though, to be fair, a 5-year old bug claiming ntpdate is going away upstream is a bit hard to believe when it's still not happened...09:45
pittirbasak, ogra_: FTR, timesyncd was requested by snappy, to have a small and unintrusive ntp thingy09:46
rbasakinfinity: well, the new functionality exists already. So if we're going to overhaul things, we should probably use it.09:46
pittibut it will not start if ntpd (or friends) are installed09:46
rbasakinfinity: for ntpd by default on server, do I want ntpdate + ntpd, or just ntpd?09:46
rbasakI presume just ntpd?09:46
rbasakMaybe start with the -g option to allow large time steps.09:47
infinityrbasak: Well, you need a clean migration path anyway.09:47
infinityrbasak: So, empty out ntpdate, make it depend on ntp, and make the ifup/etc hooks call it in one-shot-and-large-skew mode.09:47
infinityrbasak: That seems sensible to me, ish.09:47
rbasakinfinity: right09:47
infinityrbasak: Ideally, with coordination with the Debian ntp maintainer(s), so we don't end up with a messy delta of doom.09:47
rbasakYep09:48
rbasakI'm not sure if I can call one-shot-and-large-skew mode if ntpd (daemon) is already running.09:49
rbasakMaybe I can kick it though. The hooks could be clever about which to do.09:49
infinityrbasak: ntp has a few more deps, but nothing that looks crazy for places where you wanted ntpdate installed anyway.09:49
pittiinfinity, rbasak: so FTR, I wouldn't mind if we dropped ntpdate from the seeds entirely, at least not for desktop09:49
rbasakpitti: what, in favour of timesyncd?09:49
pittirbasak: WFM09:50
pittithat one is just fine for snappy and desktop09:50
rbasakI wonder what server users would want.09:50
infinityrbasak: The current hook already stops ntp, runs ntpdate, and starts ntp.  Not sure if that's actually correct, though.09:50
pittiservers might want some more elaborate one like ntpd, of course09:50
infinityrbasak: Since ntpd in non-skew mode will just exit hard, it's fair to assume that if it's running, the time is correct.09:50
rbasakIf they're serving time, sure.09:50
pittiand that's fine, timesyncd will not run then09:50
rbasakIf they're just consuming time, do server users want to use ntpd or timesyncd?09:51
infinityrbasak: Depends on how well timesyncd deals with jitter, or if it's coarse-grained, like ntpdate.09:52
infinityrbasak: Server users want precise time (especially NFS users), so whatever will give them that is "good enough".09:52
pittiinfinity: timesyncd adapts the update cycles according to the current drift09:53
pittiinfinity: i. e. it starts with waking up often (every 30s) and then depending on how good/bad your clock is it exponentially reduces the wakeups09:54
pittiand it listens to net device up events, so if it never ran it does ntp on up'ing an interface, similar to ifup.d/ntpdate09:54
rbasakThat's useful, thanks.09:55
rbasakEspecially as I can't find this stuff documented anywhere/09:55
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didrocksmvo: hey! We have a small question from the desktop sprint: let's imagine we want to install ubuntu-core with snappy on a laptop for testing purpose (or on an usb drive), is there any doc for this?11:10
ogra_iirc there were discussions on the snappy-devel ML11:10
ogra_(about that topic)11:11
seb128ogra_, didrocks, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snappy-devel/2015-March/000375.html ?11:12
ogra_yeah11:12
ogra_(there was also another one "running snappy on bare metal" or so)11:12
didrocksthanks!11:13
ogra_https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snappy-devel/2015-March/000378.html is the key though11:13
seb128didrocks, http://www.ubuntu.com/things says11:15
seb128wget http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/alpha-3/ubuntu-core-WEBDM-alpha-03_armhf-bbb.img.xz11:15
seb128unxz -c ubuntu-core-WEBDM-alpha-03_armhf-bbb.img.xz | dd of=/dev/sdX bs=32M11:15
seb128sync11:15
ogra_probably not with the armhf beaglebone image though :)11:16
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rbasakdiwic: seb128 suggests that I mention bug 1445358? Sounds like it should be release critical to me.13:22
ubottubug 1445358 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Pulseaudio fails to run when system's language is in certain non-English locales" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144535813:22
diwicrbasak, ok, looking13:22
rbasakThanks.13:22
rbasakLooks like a fairly trivial and not-too-impactful fix if it's valid.13:22
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diwicrbasak, it's valid. Question is if I should try to upload something, or wait for an SRU13:50
Anupkumarhi, I am working on a bug related to udisks, can anyone tell me is it a right place to ask questions related to bugs on udisks here?13:52
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shadeslayerslangasek: ping13:56
shadeslayerslangasek: Could you help me with the skype package? I'm trying to recompile it, but it doesn't seem to want to spit out skype-bin13:57
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rbasakdiwic: I think there's still time to upload a fix. Check in #ubuntu-release though.14:12
diwicyup. Already there14:12
rbasakOh yes, sorry. Just got back to my screen and I looked at the highlighted channels first.14:14
shadeslayerslangasek: nvm14:17
IonicI'm setting "{debupstream}-0~{revno}" as the debian version... should that be automatically expanded?15:52
Ionicif yes, it doesn't do that for vivid, leading to build failures15:52
Ionic(older versions are working fine)15:52
Ionicor maybe that was very old news15:55
Ionicyeah I guess... nevermind, sorry15:56
Ionic201215:56
Ioniclikely some layer 8 error back then15:57
* infinity glares at rbasak for moving files and making him hand-compare the diffs.16:01
rbasakSorry16:02
rbasakI moved it because it needed renaming anyway to work with dh_install16:02
rbasakWithout having to use dh-exec16:02
infinityrbasak: Yeah, I understand the rationale, just sucks to review.  I'll quit whining. :P16:03
rbasakOh, OK :)16:03
infinitypatchutils needs a utility to check if -file1/+file2 are identical.16:03
rbasakgit's rename detection is very good16:03
rbasakThen the diff output shows the changes across the rename, which is nice.16:04
infinityrbasak: Hah.  And they're not the same.16:05
rbasak+  * d/additions/source_mysql-5.6.py: attach new configuration files and16:05
infinityAhh, and the changelog notes that.16:05
rbasak+  * directories.16:05
infinityRight.16:05
rbasakApart from extra *. Whoops.16:05
rbasakI noted that we get an apport hook error if for example /etc/mysql/mysql.conf.d/ is deleted. But I think that's OK for now at least, since that error will appear in the apport report and the triager will know something's up.16:06
rbasakIt certainly makes things no worse from previous, since users could still delete all of /etc/mysql.16:07
rbasakThis kind of thing seems to be more common than I might've expected.16:07
infinityrbasak: Yeah, checking for existence of the bits before attempting to list-and-attach would be nice.16:07
rbasakOne day I'll overhaul the whole thing.16:08
infinityrbasak: Especially for optional things, which .d dirs are.16:08
rbasakFor now I just wanted to get something, which is infinitely better than nothing.16:08
infinityrbasak: But yeah, it was equally broken before, so this isn't a regression, per se.16:08
pittiwgrant: bug 143693716:41
ubottubug 1436937 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Vivid) "Temporary OEM user not removed after end user setup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/143693716:41
wgrantjibel: https://launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive/ubuntu/experimental/+build/734393517:30
jibelwgrant, verification passed :)17:36
wgranthallyn_: What's the status of the subuid patches for shadow? The above bug is in fact dodgy error handling in our version of them, so I'm wondering if there's somewhere I should be submitting the fix.17:50
stgraberwgrant: it's a bit of a mess IIRC. Eric wrote the patches for us, we were the first to carry them as distro patches, then they got included upstream (https://github.com/shadow-maint/shadow), we did a few more fixes on our side which Debian picked up later and may have now gotten upstream.17:59
wgrantstgraber: Ah, indeed, broken upstream as well AFAICS. Will try to reproduce on that and submit upstream.18:07
hallyn_what's broken upsream?18:26
hallyn_stgraber: all fixes should be upstream.18:26
stgraberhallyn_: bug 143693718:27
ubottubug 1436937 in shadow (Ubuntu Vivid) "Temporary OEM user not removed after end user setup" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/143693718:27
stgraberhallyn_: did upstream also switch to 65536 uid and gid by default for non-system users? I believe that change was a bit controversial when I made it and I got push back from Debian about taking that. Haven't checked the state of things in Debian + upstream recently though.18:28
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hallyn_stgraber: i don't see tha tin git log, it's probably still ubuntu delta, might stay that way.  THough if you send a github pull request we can discuss again18:32
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dokoxnox, still planning to update boost when opening the w-series?19:01
dobeydoko: hi. when do you expect w archive to be opened?19:12
ogra_what ? it isnt open yet ?!?19:12
ogra_:P19:12
dobeyheh19:14
dobeyof course, then we'll have to wait for CI to get stuff set up for w19:15
dokodobey, I doubt it will be open for everybody before the weekend19:16
dobeydoko: ok. hopefully CI can get all their bits updated to allow landing in it on Monday too.19:17
ogra_dobey, what do you want to land ?19:19
ogra_so urgently ...19:19
dobeyogra_: all the many things that people on my team have been working on, that aren't critical bug fixes :)19:20
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argeshallyn_: updated bug 1444057, if you are happy let me know and I can upload into W next week and sru into V20:27
ubottubug 1444057 in qemu (Ubuntu) "gdb remote target of a guest VM fails to continue" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144405720:27
arges(or whatever is easiest)20:28
hallyn_arges: i'm happy, and frankly i'm happy to have you upload it now20:38
hallyn_stgraber: ^ qemu in vivid currently can't be used with gdb to trace the guest;  building with --debug fixes it;  i think it's worth a last-minute upload to fix that.  What do you think?20:40
stgraberhallyn_: upload it to the queue. It can then be pulled in if we rebuild the server image before release (as it's seeded in there)20:42
stgraberhallyn_: that's assuming you've confirmed --debug doesn't cause significant performance regressions or other change in behavior20:42
argesstgraber: i've only tested boot times20:42
argesstgraber: any particular benchmarking you'd like to see?20:43
stgraberarges: I expect the server folks can take your qemu for a spin on some crazy openstack scaling run to make sure this isn't slowing things down20:44
argesstgraber: i'll build it in a PPA then20:44
argesand ask for testing20:45
stgraberok, cool.20:45
stgraberI have no idea what --debug may do for qemu but that sounds like the kind of option where a performance regression test would be worth it :)20:45
argesstgraber: disable-strip just does 'strip_opt=no'; enable-debug adds that plus 'debug_tcg=yes,debug=yes' i'll also look through the code to see what changes specifically and put that that info into the bug20:47
hallyn_i would've assumed boot times would've shown perf regressions20:50
argeshallyn_: one last note. building qemu with --enable-debug disables adding -O2 to CFLAGS. I'm guessing that might be reason enough to not build with enable-debug...22:22
argesso that might be a 'wont fix' and just document it22:28
hallyn_dunno, if it doesn't actually affect perf...23:34
hallyn_but ok, let's leave it for w i guess23:35

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