[02:55] <muka> my document viewer has no icon. is it known bug or this is only my phone?
[04:44] <lotuspsychje> mariogrip: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/OnePlus-One-Ubuntu-Touch-to-Get-MultiROM-Manager-Support-478772.shtml
[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[07:10] <cylonmath> good morning !
[07:58] <camelo> Hi
[08:21] <luxpir> o/ hi all. anyone about? quick question about Dekko - my Imap setup won't 'take' for one account, but will for the other on the same host. suspect it's the folder structure.
[08:23] <DanChapman> hi luxpir, what do you mean by won't 'take'?
[08:36] <Se7> morning ppl
[08:48] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Latest-Ubuntu-Touch-Update-Improves-Battery-Life-Up-to-50-Users-Report-478812.shtml
[09:03] <cylonmath> guys I use a BQ E4.5 Ubuntu phone, and I want to upgrade my system, I am scared to do it though. Did anyone perform a succesful update?
[09:05] <popey> cylonmath: how do you plan to upgrade?
[09:06] <dadexix86> cylonmath, I have the r21 that went out few days ago and it works like a charme! :)
[09:06] <popey> +1
[09:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Chinese Language Day! :-D
[09:08] <lotuspsychje> che che
[09:15] <cylonmath> popey, update manager?
[09:16] <popey> cylonmath: in system settings -> updates, right?
[09:29] <cylonmath> popey, yes!
[09:30] <ogra_> why woudl you be scared using that ?
[09:31] <ogra_> did you tinker with the rootfs on the device ?
[09:31] <ogra_> if you didnt make it writable or alter the readonly part it will all be fine
[09:33] <cylonmath> im scared coz 2 days ago i tried updating and my system gone into a contuinious loop of reboot, i used factory settings to recover.
[09:34] <ogra_> yes, that shouldnt happen (we are still trying to find what causes it, no developer could reproduce it yet)
[09:42] <Sleep_Walker> is working support for WPA Enterprise WiFi authentication?
[09:43] <cylonmath> well, i cant use eduroam yet...
[09:43] <Sleep_Walker> and where can I find OTA updates URL?
[09:44] <lotuspsychje> Sleep_Walker: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Latest-Ubuntu-Touch-Update-Improves-Battery-Life-Up-to-50-Users-Report-478812.shtml
[09:46] <Sleep_Walker> lotuspsychje: thank you for your try but I mean the file Ubuntu phone is downloading
[09:46] <lotuspsychje> Sleep_Walker: wich channel are you on?
[09:47] <ogra_> Sleep_Walker, the files come from http://system-image.ubuntu.com/
[09:48] <Sleep_Walker> lotuspsychje: I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean
[09:48] <Sleep_Walker> ogra_: thanks!
[09:50] <lotuspsychje> Sleep_Walker: i mean wich device are you using and wich ubuntu touch channel running on it
[09:51] <ogra_> Sleep_Walker, Enterprise wifi isnt there yet ...
[09:51] <Sleep_Walker> aquaris e4.5, I haven't modified default configuration
[09:51] <Sleep_Walker> ogra_: do you plan connman integration?
[09:51] <ogra_> no
[09:54] <cylonmath> Guys, you know its really nice to have a such ubuntu-touch channel, the community yo!
[09:54] <ogra_> :)
[09:54] <Sleep_Walker> yeah!
[09:58] <Mirv> what could be causes that Developer Mode setting is greyed out?
[09:58] <ogra_> Mirv, no password/PIN
[09:58] <Mirv> delete that
[09:58] <Mirv> yes, me stupid
[09:58] <Mirv> it even reads there :)
[09:59] <ogra_> i'll make it red and let it blink in the next iteration ;)
[09:59]  * ogra_ is sure the design team would love such subtile hints in the UI :)
[09:59] <Mirv> +1 :)
[10:01] <popey> ogra_: needs cats running across the screen
[10:03] <Sleep_Walker> use blue instead of red - red is everywhere, blue is alien color there ;b
[10:16] <Sleep_Walker> hm, I tried to run wpa_supplicant manually but it's interfering with the other control :(
[10:18] <ogra_> i guess just a network manager config would help ... you surely dont want to touch wpa_supplicant, let NM do that ;)
[10:20] <Sleep_Walker> oh, it's just another client to NM?
[10:20] <Sleep_Walker> cool
[10:21] <ogra_> Sleep_Walker, somenthing like that might work (not sure) https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=155893
[10:50] <luxpir> DanChapman: Hi Dan, thanks for your answer. I filed a bug report earlier, better explained there.
[10:50] <luxpir> DanChapman: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dekko/+bug/1446129
[10:52] <DanChapman> luxpir: excellent thanks for filing it. I'll take a look at now
[10:52] <luxpir> DanChapman: (hope it's relevant and not my config - could quite easily be)
[10:53] <luxpir> Anyone else aware of how best to install non-Touch software such as Syncthing, Mosh, Newsbeuter, Mutt etc.?
[10:54] <luxpir> (Do I just grab the .deb of whatever I'm after?)
[11:25] <studio_> hi
[11:28] <studio_> will the bq e.4.5 become the new kernel 3.10.54 on ut 15.04?
[11:28] <ogra_> no
[11:29] <studio_> no port for it?
[11:30] <studio_> i have seen they use that kernel for lollipop on the e4.5
[11:30] <ogra_> the ubuntu device tree is based on 4.4
[11:31] <studio_> ?
[11:31] <studio_> 4.0 is brand new, isn't it?
[11:31] <ogra_> android 4.4
[11:31] <studio_> ah
[11:32] <ogra_> we will surely have to move to 5.0 at some point ... but thats far in the future i guess
[11:35] <studio_> ogra_, yesterday i tried "again" to update from 14.10 r22 to vivid-proposed, same boot loop. i found your how to with the fastboot and recovery.img. but still no luck with that. i had to use again the mtk-tools.
[11:37] <ogra_> well, there are a few people that see this issue ... but inside canonical we only have one person who could reproduce it yet ... we have a sprint next week and will have that device there to research it
[11:39] <ogra_> usually a factory reset from the recovery menu should help though ... you shouldnt need to use any mtk tools
[11:39] <studio_> has it maybe something to to with the missing icons after and update on 14.10 and then going direct to vivid-proposed?
[11:39] <ogra_> icons ?
[11:39] <studio_> missing icons on the scope
[11:39] <ogra_> no
[11:40] <ogra_> thats a network problem with the scopes
[11:41] <studio_> no, two times amazon links, one with and one without icon, is not a networkproblem
[11:42] <studio_> two times amazon on one scope is also not normal i think
[11:42] <ogra_> no, thats something different, but also unrekated
[11:47] <Mirv> as a first thing on my brand new Bq, I get to test all the PIN + PUK support :D
[11:48] <Mirv> I'm unaware thouh why it was asking for "old PIN code" for a SIM that had PIN code asking disabled. other phones AFAIK don't need to ask for any old PIN code, just ask the new one with which it will be locked.
[11:48] <ogra_> Mirv, uuh
[11:48] <popey> i have seen that
[11:48] <popey> i think it's because of the webapps names changing
[11:48] <popey> studio_: do you still have the system setup with broken icons?
[11:48] <ogra_> popey, i think it is because of two different custom tarballs when you jump channels back and forth
[11:49] <popey> ah
[11:49] <popey> yes, that would make sense
[11:49] <popey> two desktop files with differently named apps
[11:49] <popey> you end up keeping both .desktop files
[11:49] <popey> giving you one working, one not
[11:49] <ogra_> yeah, and the old custom thingie not wiped when switching
[11:49] <popey> ok, good, glad we agree :)
[11:49] <ogra_> i'll talk with cwayne at the sprint about this
[11:50] <Mirv> well, that PUK experience was weird, but in the end I have the new PIN set and SIM locked
[11:50] <ogra_> phoedations has its sprint next week
[11:50] <popey> ok
[11:51] <cwayne> ogra_, i think it's more of a system-image issue to be honest, we don't really handle any of the removal of old customs
[11:51] <ogra_> cwayne, we should :)
[11:51] <ogra_> but i agree that parts of that need to come from system-image
[11:51] <cwayne> ogra_, right, we absolutely should :)
[11:52] <cwayne> i thought custom was wiped on upgrades
[11:52] <cwayne> maybe it's just not when switching
[11:52] <ogra_> probably switching channels should just imply --wipe
[11:52] <ogra_> it isnt a typical user feature anyway
[11:55] <studio_> popey, no, but is looking nearly same as the screen shot a guy here posted
[11:55] <studio_> was looking
[11:55] <popey> ok
[11:57] <popey> i have seen it too, i cleared it up by removing the incorrect .desktop files in ~/local/share/applications
[11:57] <popey> i think
[11:58] <ogra_> yeah
[11:58] <ogra_> what i said, we should simply wipe all userdata if someone switches channels
[11:59] <popey> zoiks
[11:59] <popey> no wai
[11:59] <ogra_> thats really an advanced task no enduser will do
[11:59] <cwayne> it should really be the click hooks doing that, shouldn't it?
[11:59] <ogra_> cwayne, how ? the package is never removed
[12:00] <ogra_> they would only kick in if you removed the click
[12:00] <cwayne> ogra_, is it really the package never being removed, or i thought it was just that symlink not being removed
[12:00] <cwayne> i'll have to take a look, but anyway, something's obviously going wrong somewhere :)
[12:01] <popey> we already have a bug for click where it doesn't clean up
[12:01] <ogra_> right, but we dont remove clicks in this case
[12:01] <ogra_> (which might be the actual bug indeed)
[12:02] <popey> \o/ lunch
[12:02] <ogra_> if you switch channels that like a fresh flash over an old image ... just without having the existing bits removed
[12:02] <ogra_> (of the custom tarball)
[12:04]  * ogra_ wishes we could somehow tell the system to not mute on incoming notifications ... dpm talking on telegram makes it hard to listen to my streamed music :P
[12:04]  * dpm starts spamming on Telegram
[12:04] <ogra_> you already do !
[12:04] <ogra_> :)
[12:04] <Mirv> hmm, keyboard got stuck on my Bq, is there a bug about such thing?
[12:04]  * dpm hugs ogra_ :)
[12:04]  * ogra_ hugs dpm 
[12:04] <ogra_> Mirv, stuck in what way ? ... must be a Qt bug :P
[12:05] <Mirv> ogra_: it didn't work anymore, elsewhere on the touch screen it was possible to browse. I was trying to enter instagram details. now the keyboard disappeared and doesn't re-appear.
[12:05] <ogra_> wow
[12:05] <ogra_> havent heard of that one in about a year ... we used to have such a bug
[12:06] <Elleo> Mirv: were you entering a password?
[12:06] <Mirv> now it reappeared and works, although I needed to switch apps and restart the instagram
[12:06] <Mirv> Elleo: yes, exactly
[12:07] <Elleo> Mirv: yeah, there's a bug in the new oxide that triggers a crash in the keyboard; we've got a branch that fixes the keyboard crash, I'm trying to track down the oxide problems now
[12:07] <Mirv> Elleo: thanks, just checking since this is my actual first out-of-the-box experience here
[12:08] <Mirv> good that it's being tracked, and now I also remembed the oxide woes were there also on rtm
[12:08] <ogra_> we should just switch to geck ... that oxide stuff has bugs all over :P
[12:08] <ogra_> *gecko
[12:08] <Mirv> khtml \o/
[12:08] <ogra_> lol
[12:08] <Elleo> lynx
[12:08] <ogra_> is that still alive ?
[12:09] <Elleo> just embed a terminal widget running lynx in the browser and all our problems would be solved
[12:09] <ogra_> well, rather w3m then, it can do frames :)
[12:09] <Elleo> pah, you and your fancy web 1.1
[12:10] <ogra_> wget -O- -q $url | html2text -> pipe into QML textview
[12:10] <ogra_> ;)
[12:10] <Elleo> heh
[12:11] <ogra_> that "pictures on the internet" thing will never gain acceptance anyway
[12:11] <Mirv> finds bug #1252899 the most glaring problem so far
[12:12] <ogra_> yeah, thats actually very ebarassing
[12:12] <Mirv> jgdx: what needs doing / who needs pinging to get https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-start-page/1252899-mobile-friendly/+merge/197038 merged regarding that bug ^ ?
[12:15] <Mirv> beuno: same to you ^ what needs to be done to get that branch tested and into production?
[12:19] <Mirv> I'd like the possibility to lock screen without locking device with the code until some time has elapsed
[12:20] <ogra_> Mirv, we all would like that :P
[12:20] <Mirv> and another thing from Jolla I'd like double power press to skip home screen ie directly go to scopes or ask the security code. double power press to skip any possible time elapse option to immediately lock the phone.
[12:20] <Mirv> ogra_: :) is there a design bug about that?
[12:20]  * ogra_ remembers jdstrand asking for it over a year ago 
[12:20] <ogra_> not sure if he filed one
[12:21] <Mirv> let's hear from jdstrand, I believe there should be a bug. about that first, then the extra convenience features once that's possible first.
[12:22] <ogra_> iirc that came up when we were still experimenting with the split greeter idea ...
[12:22] <ogra_> which made it likely fall off the table sicne we couldnt implement what we initially planned
[12:23] <ogra_> (lock delay is a greeter thing)
[12:24] <jgdx> Mirv, not sure. When I talked to beuno about it last time, it seemed like it was ready to go
[12:24] <jgdx> last time was couple of weeks ago
[12:25] <ogra_> wow, thats quite a change for such a small feature
[12:27] <richi_> Since cryptsetup is apt-get installable from the touch repository, did somebody have success in setting up an encrypted partition?
[12:27] <ogra_> i think someone talked about setting up an encrypted directory ... on the mailing list
[12:27] <ogra_> partition wont work
[12:28] <ogra_> (well, it will, but you need massive modifications first)
[12:29] <richi_> ogra_, why is that? When trying luks format, I got error messages about some missing key store.
[12:29] <ogra_> what did you try to format exactly ?
[12:30] <ogra_> encrypting the readonly rootfs is pointless ... encrypting the rw partition wont work due to the bind-mount-farm we use for the writable bits
[12:31] <richi_> ogra_:  sudo cryptsetup -c aes-xts-plain -s 512 luksFormat /dev/mmcblk1p1 /dev/shm/luks-key.txt
[12:31] <ogra_> the latter will get implemented at some point though ... but doing it today without doing a lost of changes to the system core wont work
[12:31] <Sleep_Walker> oh, external card...
[12:31] <ogra_> s/lost/lot/
[12:31] <ogra_> ah, Sd card should indeed work
[12:32] <ogra_> (you need to mount it manually etc indeed, udisks wont automount it)
[12:32] <richi_> yes, I figured that out. It's also strange that ext partitions are not auto mounted...
[12:33] <ogra_> on purpose
[12:33] <ogra_> we have no way to deal with file permissions
[12:33] <ogra_> (yet)
[12:33] <richi_> maybe related: during apt-get install cryptsetup I got a load of warnings.
[12:33] <ogra_> and the typical enduser wont use ext4 to store their music/photos
[12:34] <ogra_> yeah, its not designed for a system where it cant regenerate the initrd
[12:34] <ogra_> iirc the package tries that during install
[12:40] <richi_> The above command gives me the following errors :
[12:40] <richi_> device-mapper: reload ioctl on  failed: No such file or directory
[12:40] <richi_> Failed to open temporary keystore device.
[12:40] <richi_> device-mapper: remove ioctl on temporary-cryptsetup-31532 failed: No such device or address
[12:41] <ogra_> ah, yeah, likely also no devicemapper support in the kernel
[12:42] <richi_> Too bad. Ok, I'll loo into directories then...
[12:43] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, whats the bug location for users to request kernel config changes ... studio_ also wants cifs and nfs support (and i think we could at least enable cifs as a module since the filemanager will want to use it alter too)
[12:43] <ogra_> *later
[12:45] <john-mcaleely> ogra_, https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image
[12:45] <john-mcaleely> it can migrated as needed from there
[12:45] <ogra_> ah, just generic then ... k
[12:45] <aSheepie> Hi, silly question but how do I paste text into an HTML textbox control.  For example in the Twitter app, when composing a new tweet.  Long pressing just seems to select the input object itself, rather than the text within it? Thx
[12:57] <jgdx> aSheepie, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1264493
[13:05] <aSheepie> jgdx, ah, cheers, glad it wasn't me being stupid - I'll add that it affects me and details to that log, then.
[13:06] <jgdx> aSheepie, thank you. It affects me as well, with my long, stupid passwords
[13:07]  * ogra_ just uses "password" everwhere... so much easier to remember :) 
[13:08] <ogra_> (and i heard many other people do that too ... the masses cant be wrong !)
[13:09] <jgdx> not hunter2?
[13:09] <ogra_> nah, i'm an advanced user ... i use hunter3 if i use it
[13:10] <richi_> speaking of passwords are there plans to support U2FA?
[13:10] <ogra_> thats a question for dobey i guess :)
[13:13] <ogra_> jdstrand, do yu remember if you filed a bug for "i dont want my screen to immediately lock when i turn off the screen" ? i know we talked about ages ago
[13:21] <dobey> ogra_: what is?
[13:23] <ogra_> dobey, richi_'s question about auth providers
[13:23] <dobey> 2fa is supported for the u1 account plug-in on the phone
[13:24] <dobey> and by pay-ui as well for when the password must be entered there
[13:24] <kenvandine> dednick, did you see that QA found a regression in your settings branch for bug 1390136
[13:26] <richi_> dobey:  I mean  Fido U2FA. Something like YubiKey or http://buysecuritykey.com/
[13:26] <beuno> Mirv, jgdx, I'll take care of that this week
[13:27] <dednick> kenvandine: no, i havent
[13:27] <ogra_> richi_, there is the authenticaor app in the store for 2FA token generation ...
[13:27] <ogra_> i assume you dont expect to be able to plug a yubikey into your phone
[13:27] <ogra_> (with OTA cable or some such)
[13:27] <richi_> ogra_: I generally avoid software solutions for 2FA.
[13:28] <richi_> ogra_  : I already use my YubiKEy for ssh auth with my phone.
[13:28] <ogra_> you meanyou have the yubikey attached to the phone for ssh client stuff ?
[13:28] <dobey> well, if the device where you enter your password, and generate the 2fa key, are the same, then it's not really 2fa
[13:30] <richi_> ogra_: yes The neo has an OpenGPG applet that gpg-agent speaks to for ssh auth.
[13:30] <ogra_> yeah, i was more wondering about the Hw setup
[13:30] <dednick> kenvandine: thanks, i'll take a look into it
[13:31] <Mirv> beuno: jgdx thanks!
[13:31] <ogra_> are there microUSB yubikeys ?
[13:31] <richi_> dobey:  U2FA seems to be a really good compromise : https://fidoalliance.org/
[13:31] <Mirv> argh
[13:31] <kenvandine> dednick, thx
[13:31] <Mirv> so my Bq is stuck in non-spinning Ubuntu logo after spontaniously rebooting while writing Telegram message
[13:31] <richi_> ogra_ : yes with a smapp OTG adaptor.
[13:31] <Mirv> I guess I'll try forcefully powering off
[13:31] <ogra_> richi_, ah, right, so not actual microUSB keys then
[13:32] <richi_> ogra_ : We might suggest that to Yubico ...
[13:32] <dobey> richi_: i don't have a yubikey or a fido thing. or an otg adapter.
[13:33] <dobey> ogra_: i guess they could make one that was an SD card too
[13:33] <ogra_> yeah, i wouldnt want to lose my SD slot to it
[13:34] <ogra_> i just wonder in general why so few HW manufacturers build actual microUSB HW
[13:34] <richi_> dobey: I was just asking if there are plans to support FIDO U2FA in the ubuntu touch browser. ATM it's only supported by Chrome/Chromium, with Firefox support planned.
[13:34] <dobey> ogra_: probably because they build things for computers, and building a thing that plugs into the microusb on a phone is ass backward :)
[13:35] <ogra_> richi_, you didnt say browser anywhere above (or i missed it) :)
[13:35] <dobey> richi_: oh, well i don't work on the browser, but it's based on the blink engine, so it might have some support already
[13:36] <jdstrand> ogra_: I don't think I ever did because I was told that the feature was coming where we could adjust the timeout (and that did land)
[13:36] <ogra_> dobey, well, i guess they would fine one or the other customer that would be happy to not have 15cm OTG cable dangling off the device
[13:36] <ogra_> *find
[13:36] <richi_> Oh I will try then...
[13:37] <ogra_> jdstrand, right, i'll file one then ... since even with the timeout i'd like to be able to quickly switc on the device again without having to unlock
[13:38] <dobey> ogra_: probably no profit in it though. iphones don't have micro-usb. and apparently the android phone market can't get the orientation of the socket on the phone correct
[14:34] <Elleo> jhodapp: is it a known bug that video doesn't seem to work when streamed over http via MediaPlayer and VideoOutput elements? (audio from the video still plays though) I couldn't see anything obvious logged against media-hub, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?
[14:35] <jhodapp> Elleo, no it should work although it's been a while since I've tried it...there may be specific issues with the codec that you're trying to use or something else
[14:35] <jhodapp> Elleo, have you verified that the video plays locally if you download it to the phone?
[14:36] <Elleo> jhodapp: yeah, it plays locally in the same test app; it's only when streamed over http that it fails to show the video
[14:36] <jhodapp> Elleo, got a link to it? I can try playing it
[14:37] <Elleo> jhodapp: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10856399/ <-- here's the test app with the video stream in
[14:37] <Elleo> wget'ing the file and switching to the local source works fine
[14:37] <jhodapp> Elleo, I'm going to try it from mediaplayer-app first
[14:38] <Elleo> okay
[14:39] <Elleo> jhodapp: doesn't work in mediaplayer-app here (except for the sound)
[14:39] <jhodapp> Elleo, yeah same here
[14:39] <jhodapp> Elleo, can you file a bug, it's a valid bug
[14:39] <Elleo> sure thing
[14:39] <jhodapp> Elleo, against media-hub
[14:39] <Elleo> okay
[14:39] <jhodapp> Elleo, thanks!
[14:42] <Elleo> jhodapp: filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/media-hub/+bug/1446260 :)
[14:43] <jhodapp> Elleo, thanks, that looks good
[14:43] <Elleo> jhodapp: yeah, stumbled on it when trying to add video support to podbird :)
[14:43] <jhodapp> Elleo, nice, I was just playing with podbird...nicely done
[14:44] <jhodapp> Elleo, I've wanted a really good podcast client for UT, so if I get some time I may help hack on it
[14:44] <Elleo> jhodapp: its about to get a whole lot better, nik90 has done a tonne of awesome work along with some new design work from Kevin Feyder :)
[14:44] <jhodapp> oh very nice!
[14:44] <Elleo> jhodapp: there's a beta for the new version here: http://nik90.com/podbird-v0-6-call-for-testing/
[14:46] <jhodapp> Elleo, awesome, I'll give that a spin!
[14:46] <Elleo> great, let us know if you hit any problems :)
[14:46] <popey> it works nicely!
[14:46] <jhodapp> will do
[14:46] <jhodapp> nik90, you rock man
[14:46] <Elleo> popey: glad to hear it :)
[14:46] <popey> +1
[14:46] <popey> can you make a deb please for my desktop :)
[14:47] <Elleo> popey: done: https://launchpad.net/~podbird-devs/+archive/ubuntu/ppa ;)
[14:47] <davmor2> and an exe for popey gameos :D
[14:47] <Elleo> popey: holding off on making the desktop ppa especially public until we fix one last issue we spotted last night though
[14:49] <Kekambas> hello
[14:49] <Kekambas> ?
[14:49] <Elleo> popey: the next step in the master plan will be push notifications, recommendations and syncing between desktop and phone (or multiple phones) via (the complete unfinished) podbird.org
[14:49] <Kekambas> im trying to install ubuntu touch on nexus 4, does it still a preview or is it fully running?
[14:50] <Elleo> somehow a podcast client I hacked together over christmas has taken over a big chunk of my life :P
[14:50] <Kekambas> anyone?
[14:50] <popey> ooooh
[14:50] <Elleo> Kekambas: it's a fully usable system (depending on what your needs are); you can install basically the same stuff that's running on the shipping ubuntu phones on the nexus 4
[14:51] <Kekambas> so it is stable?
[14:51] <lotuspsychje> !devices | Kekambas
[14:51] <Elleo> Kekambas: the stable branch is pretty stable
[14:51] <Kekambas> lol
[14:51] <Elleo> Kekambas: the devel/devel-proposed branches are less stable (but more cutting edge)
[14:51] <Elleo> for general use you're probably best going with the stable branch
[14:52] <Kekambas> is it possible to install ubuntu touch via windows?
[14:53] <Elleo> no idea on that front I'm afraid
[14:53] <Elleo> not sure if its possible with any of the normal android flashing tools
[14:53] <lotuspsychje> even if we could simulate a terminal on windows, it wouldnt apt-get right?
[14:53] <Elleo> but the recommended way is to use ubuntu-device-flash on a linux system
[14:54] <popey> Elleo: \o/ this is nice :)
[14:54] <Kekambas> mmmm
[14:54] <Elleo> popey: good :)
[14:54] <Kekambas> i have no experience using linux
[14:55] <Elleo> Kekambas: I believe its also possible to install via the multiboot tool inside android (to create a dualboot system), I don't have any experience of that myself though
[14:55] <Elleo> or is that multirom?
[14:55] <Elleo> something like that
[14:55] <Kekambas> http://www.webupd8.org/2013/02/how-to-flash-ubuntu-touch-from-windows.html
[14:55] <Kekambas> check that out
[14:56] <Kekambas> but thats not updated
[14:56] <Elleo> Kekambas: yeah, I wouldn't recommend following something from 2013, a lot has changed since then
[14:56] <amu_poi> maybe MultiRom Manager is good
[14:57] <Kekambas> do you guys know any guide about multirom
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> Kekambas: check its FOSS website, alot of nice guides there
[14:58] <Kekambas> i used to do that but with my droid razr, didnt know it was possible on n4 till now
[14:58] <Kekambas> lol
[14:58] <Kekambas> guides about multirom
[14:59] <Kekambas> xD
 maybe you need this  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tassadar.multirommgr&hl=en
[15:05] <Kekambas> i just installed it
[15:05] <Kekambas> now..
[15:06] <Kekambas> where i can download the ubuntu touch image
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> Kekambas: see the wiki install link in topic
[15:08] <Tassadar> Kekambas: it's downloaded through the app, it's not really feasible to download the images by hand
[15:08] <Kekambas> which app?
[15:08] <Kekambas> im not using ubuntu ATM
[15:10] <dednick> kenvandine: fixed the issue with my ubuntu-system-settings branch.
[15:10] <Tassadar> Kekambas: sorry, didn't read the whole conversation - do you want to dual-boot ubuntu touch, or just install it on your device?
[15:11] <Kekambas> its better to have  dual boot?
[15:11] <Kekambas> or just to install it
[15:11] <Kekambas> ?
[15:12] <Kekambas> i think the best for me is dual boot, cause i use a few apps that are not available on ubuntu
[15:12] <amu_poi> in the MultiRom Manager you can download the img
[15:12] <nik90> jhodapp: thnx :) Just doing my part to help build a great podcast app which has a legitimate use case on the phone.
[15:12] <Kekambas> ok
[15:12] <jhodapp> nik90, indeed, it's one of my most used apps on my other phone (which shall remain unnamed) ;)
[15:13] <Kekambas> ill take a look and ill be back in a few
[15:13] <nik90> jhodapp: haha :D
[15:13] <Kekambas> will multirom replace my recovery?
[15:16] <Kekambas> ?
[15:17] <amu_poi> yes
[15:17] <matv1> Kekambas have you read http://2buntu.com/articles/1510/installing-ubuntu-touch-with-multirom/
[15:26] <kenvandine> dednick, thx
[15:29] <Kekambas> mmm
[15:29] <lotuspsychje_> Kekambas: have you found it
[15:29] <Kekambas> using it with multirom will allow me to use it for daily basis?
[15:29] <Kekambas> yes
[15:29] <Kekambas> multirom its downloading it
[15:30] <Kekambas> but i want to use it for my main rom
[15:30] <Kekambas> im tired of android and i have IOS
[15:30] <kenvandine> Elleo, are you sure you don't want to the autopilot package to depend on the specific version of ubuntu-keyboard-tests ?
[15:30] <kenvandine> to match the others
[15:31] <Elleo> kenvandine: ah, yeah, that might be best; I'll update that
[15:31] <kenvandine> Elleo, cool
[15:31] <Kekambas> ?
[15:32] <Kekambas> can i use the one in multirom as my main rom
[15:32] <Kekambas> ?
[15:32] <popey> hard to say, not sure many people test that
[15:32] <Tassadar> no, but you can set it up to boot as default
[15:33] <Kekambas> mmm
[15:33] <Kekambas> ok
[15:33] <Kekambas> is there any list of supported apps?
[15:33] <Elleo> kenvandine: pushed a fix :)
[15:42] <popey> ogra_: that icon disappearing thing is more widespread.
[15:43] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1445979
[15:43] <popey> not just people flip-flopping between releases
[15:44] <ogra_> popey, double idcons for apps from the custom tarball is custom tarrball and channel hopping related
[15:44] <ogra_> we have another bug where scopes dont show icons due to QtNetwork issues
[15:44] <ogra_> and this one above looks like something new, not related to the two others
[15:45] <ogra_> popey, so i'd say we have at least three different bugs here
[15:45] <pmcgowan> thats a new one and very odd
[15:45] <ogra_> yes
[15:45] <ogra_> we never had the launcher affected before
[15:46]  * ogra_ wonders if the icon cache gopt corrupted ... by i.e. installing a deb with icons :)
[15:47] <ogra_> all icon packs on desktop try to re-generate the cache from the postinst
[15:47] <ogra_> iof that fails you might be left with a corrupt cache ...
[15:47] <ogra_> *if
[15:53] <muka> Document viewer has in icon. is this normal or this is a bug?
[15:53] <muka> sorry has no icon...
[15:55] <ogra_> muka, if you installed it from the store regulary on an unmodified OS this is definitely a bug
[15:56] <muka> well, i installed it from ppa:ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/daily
[15:58] <ogra_> uh
[15:58] <ogra_> so you made your system writable and all
[15:58] <ogra_> well, then it can be anything
[15:59] <ogra_> only file a bug if you actually see it on a untainted device with a click package from the store ...
[15:59] <ogra_> but if you followed some call for testing, let the person know that asked you to use it from a ppa
[16:00] <ogra_> (though i cant imagine anyone would ask you to test a click package from a PPA build)
[16:23] <muka> ogra_, yes
[16:48] <faenil> ogra_: I think it's a known bugs that some icons disappeared
[16:48] <faenil> bug*
[16:48] <ogra_> faenil, up to now we have identified at least three different ones
[16:49] <faenil> ones -> i.e.? three bugs, or icons?
[16:49] <ogra_> bugs
[16:49] <faenil> ah
[16:50] <ogra_> there is one where you end up with duplicated entries for preinstalled apps if you switch channels ... (one icon being empty as i understand)
[16:50] <ogra_> then there is one where the scope icons are all gone due to (seemingly) network issues
[16:51] <ogra_> and the new one above wher even the launcher misses icons (which looks like a broken icon cache to me)
[17:01] <studio_> hi
[17:01] <studio_> i am back on vivid without a boot-loop :)
[17:02] <studio_> i "think" the problem was the "r22" ...
[17:04] <studio_> after i switched back to stable (r21) i was able to upgrade to devel-proposed without a boot loop
[17:05] <studio_> ok, some icons are missing, but i am happy that i don't not have these damn loop :)
[17:07] <studio_> https://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/rc/bq-aquaris.en/krillin/ was the "r22" i used
[17:15] <dobey> the r22 in the rc channel is the exact same image as the r21 in the stable channel
[17:15] <studio_> i just told what i made, and now i have no boot loop
[17:16] <ogra_> dobey, he doesnt use the standard tools for flashing ... might be related ...
[17:18] <studio_> ogra_, after/on the loop, i needed to flash with the mkt-tool the "default" image. i was not able with the recovery.img and fastboot to fix the problem.
[17:18] <Kekambas> hello
[17:18] <Kekambas> guys
[17:18] <Kekambas> any idea how to install whatsapp on ubuntu touch
[17:19] <ogra_> Kekambas, there is no whatsapp for ubuntu touch
[17:19] <Kekambas> fudge
[17:19] <dobey> ogra_: i know.
[17:19] <ogra_> there is telegram though ...
[17:19] <Kekambas> not everybody uses that
[17:19] <dobey> not everybody uses whatsapp either
[17:20] <Kekambas> almost everybody
[17:20]  * cwayne doesn't
[17:20] <Kekambas> whos that
[17:20] <studio_> ogra_, i was able to flash the recovery.img in fastboot mode as you wrote in the mailing-list, but that did not fixed the problem.
[17:20] <dobey> unfortunately, whatsapp is a closed proprietary system. if you want whatsapp you'll have to get them to write an app for ubuntu phone
[17:20]  * dobey doesn't use whatsapp either
[17:20]  * ogra_ never heard of whatsapp before people asked here about it (and before facebook bought them)
[17:21] <Kekambas> first of all
[17:21] <Kekambas> whos ogra_
[17:21] <Kekambas> or dobey?
[17:21] <dobey> ogra_ is ogra_
[17:21] <dobey> and i am me
[17:21] <Kekambas> lol
[17:21] <ogra_> well
[17:21] <Kekambas> and you guys are?
[17:21] <Kekambas> ....
[17:21] <ogra_> sometimes im not ogra_ but just ogra
[17:22] <dobey> a small subset of the vast number of people not using whatsapp :)
[17:22] <Kekambas> lol
[17:22] <Kekambas> well.. actually whatsapp have 800,000,000 monthly active users
[17:22] <ogra_> that doesnt make the app more open sadly :)
[17:22] <cwayne> so then there's 6,200,000,000 that don't use it :)
[17:23] <dobey> exactly
[17:23] <Kekambas> lol
[17:23] <ogra_> and the whatsapp people regulary shut down all clones
[17:23] <Kekambas> xD
[17:23] <cwayne> but anyway, whatsapp actively discourages porting to new platforms
[17:23] <ogra_> so there is no point in even trying to reverse engineer it
[17:23] <dobey> and i'm pretty sure that 800M number is well over inflated
[17:23] <cwayne> it's not so much a technical problem as a political one
[17:23] <Kekambas> mmm
[17:23] <cwayne> unfortunately :/
[17:23] <Kekambas> which one is better?
[17:23] <ogra_> well, not even that
[17:24] <ogra_> its a money problem ...
[17:24] <dobey> well, telegram is more open and more secure
[17:24] <ogra_> if you pay them enough they will give you permission to write your own client
[17:24] <dobey> whatsapp is totally proprietary and insecure
[17:25] <tedg> To be fair, Whatsapp seems to be integrating TextSecure
[17:25] <tedg> Which would make it very secure once that's complete.
[17:26] <dobey> well, assuming they do it in a way such that they don't cheat
[17:26] <dobey> i suspect they might cheat though
[17:27] <Kekambas> lol
[17:27] <Kekambas> me too
[17:27] <Kekambas> ill try telegram
[17:27] <Kekambas> which apps you guys recomend for ubuntu
[17:28] <dobey> use the ones you need to use
[17:29] <Kekambas> this is my first time using UT
[17:29]  * ogra_ uses his G+ app a lot :)
[17:29] <ogra_> <shameless ad mode>
[17:29] <Kekambas> so... im a newbie
[17:29] <Elleo> Kekambas: all the cool kids are using podbird :)
[17:30] <ogra_> lol
[17:30] <Kekambas> lol
[17:30] <Kekambas> im not a kid
[17:32] <nik90> Elleo: all of kinds of tactics we use to raise the popularity of podbird :P
[17:32] <Elleo> heh
[17:33] <Kekambas> lol
[17:35] <Kekambas> so
[17:35] <Kekambas> besides podbird
[17:35] <nik90> ogra_: dude I miss the g+ red color..bring that back :P
[17:35] <Kekambas> any app?
[17:35] <nik90> Kekambas: dekko email client
[17:36] <nik90> Kekambas: quick memo (google keep alternative)
[17:36] <ogra_> nik90, careful, i might make it neon green with a user check for "nik90" :)
[17:36] <Kekambas> why sometimes ppls names appear in red
[17:36] <dobey> Kekambas: whichever ones exist that satisfy a particular need you have, should be the ones you use. because you won't use the others anyway :)
[17:36] <nik90> Kekambas: I would recommend going to uappexplorer.com and sort apps there using the rating to find the one you like
[17:36] <dobey> Kekambas: probably because they mentioned you
[17:36] <Kekambas> how u mention?
[17:37] <Kekambas> using @?
[17:37] <dobey> Kekambas: <- like this
[17:37] <Elleo> Kekambas: yeah, this sorts by ratings https://uappexplorer.com/apps?sort=-points so the top apps there are all popular with people
[17:37] <Kekambas> lol
[17:37] <dobey> or a comma
[17:37] <nik90> ogra_: hey I am coming after you then...trust me there are apps that I work on which you also use :P
[17:37] <Kekambas> dobey, ?
[17:38] <dobey> yes
[17:38] <Kekambas> how i mention?
[17:38] <Kekambas> xD
[17:38] <dobey> you just did
[17:38] <Kekambas> it is not red
[17:38] <dobey> becasue you aren't me
[17:38] <nik90> it will be red for the person you type
[17:38] <Kekambas> ok...
[17:38] <ogra_> nik90, hmm ... you know which other parts of the system i touch ... you will lose that battle ;)
[17:38] <Kekambas> i c
[17:39] <nik90> ogra_: rofl...not fair..I thought we were sticking to the app level :P
[17:39] <dobey> it's the client you are using highlighting the line where your nickname was mentioned
[17:40] <Kekambas> Elleo, thank you for the web
[17:40] <Elleo> Kekambas: no problem :)
[17:40] <Kekambas> Very useful
[17:40]  * ogra_ hugs nik90 
[17:40] <Kekambas> Elleo, where i can see the features of ubuntu touch
[17:40] <Kekambas> ?
[17:41] <Kekambas> NVM
[17:41]  * nik90 signs a peace treaty with a return hug
[17:43] <cwayne> psh cmon guys
[17:43] <cwayne> we all know its all about scopes
[17:43] <cwayne> not apps :P
[17:43] <Kekambas> Elleo, particularly recommend for daily basis
[17:44] <Kekambas> cwayne, hows that? scopes?
[17:45] <nik90> cwayne: my frnd, you are surrounded by way too many app devs to say that out loud :P
[17:45] <cwayne> Kekambas, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/01/ubuntu-phone-bq-photo-scopes-details
[17:46] <cwayne> nik90, :P
[17:46]  * ogra_ sits down and writes a scopes app !
[17:47] <ogra_> bridging the gap !
[17:47] <nik90> cwayne: btw ur ubuntu news scope is awesome..and going to be even more awesome with the new keywords features in vivid
[17:48] <cwayne> nik90, hey thanks
[17:48] <cwayne> i forgot about that one
[17:48]  * cwayne has written too many scopes
[17:49] <nik90> I think we need a search scopes functionality in the unity8 bottom edge page...too many scopes in the bq device and takes times to search for the one you are looking for
[17:50] <Kekambas> cwayne, detailed explanation about scopes? newbie here!
[17:52] <karni> Kekambas: detailed explanation of scopes - https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/
[17:52] <Kekambas> karni thank you
[17:52] <karni> you're welcome
[17:52] <Kekambas> cwayne, which scope u dev?
[17:53] <davmor2> ogra_: If we are play what parts of the system do you touch then QA win :P
[17:53] <ogra_> davmor2, but you cant break them ... ;)
[17:54] <ogra_> slangasek, have you ever seen this page (just stumbled over it on the weekend) https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/
[17:54] <ogra_> i assume that needs updating with your new naming scheme
[17:54] <davmor2> ogra_: no, no you said  "you know which other parts of the system i touch" there was no mention of breaking or not :P
[17:55] <slangasek> ogra_: yes, I've been discussing it just today with dholbach because of some differences needed in the content for ubuntu core
[17:56] <ogra_> cool ...
[17:56] <ogra_> just wanted to make sure it is on your radar
[17:56] <ogra_> since it mentiones <series> all over the place
[18:00] <dobey> ogra_: you're too late. we already wrote an apps scope, so the gap is bridged! :)
[18:01] <ogra_> dobey, wrong way round :P
[18:04] <mcphail> Congratulations, everyone, on RTMv21. Much more stable and huuuuuge battery life. Cheers!
[18:06] <ogra_> :D
[18:07]  * mcphail needs to dwonload a version of "snake" because this battery is lasting as long as a Nokia brick
[18:07] <ogra_> i thought there was a version of snake in the store
[18:07] <ogra_> iirc it was the first winner of the first app contest :)
[18:08] <mcphail> hah! - checking...
[18:08] <ogra_> would be a shame if it was gone
[18:08] <mcphail> It's there!!!
[18:13] <elopio> mzanetti: I have some questions about QML tests. Can you ping me when you have some free time, please?
[18:19] <Kekambas> ogra, so.... why you guys dont dev a scope for whatsapp?
[18:20] <Kekambas> gora, :P
[18:20] <Kekambas> ogra, :P
[18:20] <ogra_> Kekambas, because we couldnt connect ...
[18:21] <ogra_> i guess the whatsapp protocol is even enough reverse engineered that you could actually easily write a scope ... but whatsapp would shut it down on their next cleanup cycle and sue us
[18:24] <Sleep_Walker> it's second time I heard about whatsapp today
[18:24] <dobey> well i don't know if they'd sue, but they'd ban anyone using it
[18:24] <Sleep_Walker> what is so special about that?
[18:24] <ogra_> some people seem to use it
[18:24] <Sleep_Walker> we have XMPP, IRC, TOX, mail (!)
[18:24] <mcphail> Am I right in thinking Bluetooth is going to change with the next rtm release? I'm struggling to connect with my car but won't bother investigating further if it is changing anyway
[18:25] <dobey> i use carrier pigeons myself. much more reliable
[18:25] <ogra_> mcphail, next or the one after ... we are still looking into getting bluez5 to work
[18:25] <mcphail> ogra_: ok, thanks
[18:25] <Sleep_Walker> dobey: you'd better fix your routing - I'm shooting pigeons around (with airsoft only though)
[18:26] <dobey> Sleep_Walker: i only use stealth ninja pigeons.
[18:27] <dobey> speaking of shooting birds, i'm looking out the window and feeling pretty tempted to go do exactly that, right now
[18:27] <Sleep_Walker> dobey: that should be OK, I hate that beeping, copulating and defecating ones only, stealth ninjas are OK
[18:28] <Kekambas> ogra_, is it so hard?
[18:29] <ogra_> Kekambas, hard ? what ?
[18:30] <Kekambas> ogra_, to get a scope for whatsapp?
[18:30] <dobey> Sleep_Walker: if they didn't crap all over my cars, i wouldn't care. but there are way too many in my yard now, and ruining my paint
[18:31] <ogra_> Kekambas, it would be a waste of tim because whatsapp would shut it down and lock you out
[18:31] <ogra_> *time too
[18:31] <dobey> Kekambas: it's not hard. it's plenty easy if you are fine with having it blocked by whatsapp, and getting anyone using banned from whatsapp
[18:32] <Kekambas> dobey, why dont you guys get a permission from whatsapp
[18:32] <Kekambas> ?
[18:32] <mzanetti> elopio, hey, what up?
[18:32] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: why don't you try yourself?
[18:33] <cwayne> Kekambas, because they won't give permissions to new platforms until they reach some absurd level of users
[18:33] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, im not a dev.
[18:33] <ogra_> Kekambas, because they want you to pay $$$ to grant you permission to do that
[18:33] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, im learning but its hard to learn by myself
[18:33] <ogra_> if you dont, you get locked out
[18:33] <cwayne> honestly, it all comes down to whatsapp being kinda evil really
[18:34] <cwayne> really the opposite of open source
[18:34] <Kekambas> lol
[18:34] <ogra_> Kekambas, the only one who can build a whatsapp app for ubuntu is whatsapp ...
[18:34] <ogra_> Kekambas, or you ... if you have ... whatver they ask for ... $50 mio ?
[18:34] <Kekambas> ogra_, just the fact of using it generates revenue isnt it?
[18:35] <Kekambas> ogra_, it cant be that muhc
[18:35] <ogra_> Kekambas, no need to discuss with me ... you need to convince them, not me :)
[18:36] <Kekambas> ogra_, and how you get in touch with em?
[18:36] <ogra_> no idea
[18:36] <dobey> well, i presume they have a web site
[18:36] <dobey> facebook.com or something like that
[18:36] <ogra_> i guess youcan find a mailto link on their website somewhere
[18:36] <ogra_> or your business unit contacts their business unit
[18:37] <ogra_> ;)
[18:37] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: you'd better not invest time in vendor-lock-in yourself
[18:37] <ogra_> mzanetti, is the imgur uploader broken ? all attempts to upload someting time out for me today
[18:37] <elopio> mzanetti: I'm not even sure what to ask :) I'm trying to open a single qml file from system settings, but the file depends on the plugin.
[18:37] <elopio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10857533/
[18:37] <elopio> how can I import a library without installing it?
[18:38] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, why not? at the end of the day they will get the money.
[18:38] <mzanetti> ogra_, was working last time I used it (some few days ago), will test it
[18:38] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, maybe in time they will do it... when UT have more users
[18:38] <mzanetti> elopio, -I path/to/plugin
[18:38] <ogra_> i just got the "Error uploading" red cross thing again here
[18:39] <mzanetti> ogra_, ack. will see what's wrong. thanks for reporting
[18:39] <mzanetti> elopio, does it work?
[18:39] <elopio> mzanetti: no, it doesn't
[18:40] <mzanetti> elopio, same error?
[18:40] <Kekambas> ogra_, any cool scope to get?
[18:41] <ogra_> Kekambas, ask cwayne, he's the scopes guy
[18:41] <elopio> mzanetti: yes. Not installed.
[18:41]  * ogra_ only has online games, news apps and a music player in the store ... 
[18:41] <mzanetti> elopio, can you paste the command line?
[18:41] <ogra_> well ... and G+
[18:41] <Kekambas> cwayne, any cool scope to get?
[18:41] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: maybe, but that is not the solution, only workaround. I can have my jabber, IRC or any standard protocol on UT quickly and it will be able to do everything you expect from whatsapp, when the client will miss some feature, I can try another one or write myself one
[18:41] <Kekambas> ogra_, thank you
[18:41] <mzanetti> ogra_, speaking of G+ :D
[18:42] <ogra_> mzanetti, tell me :)
[18:42] <mzanetti> ogra_, any chance to include ubuntu signon to the url patterns?
[18:42] <dobey> the store scope is the best scope
[18:43] <elopio> mzanetti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10857562/
[18:43] <mzanetti> ogra_, or well... I assume that's the issue. not that I've tried it
[18:43] <ogra_> mzanetti, sure, but how would that help without the ap havin any auth integration
[18:43] <ogra_> *the app
[18:43] <mzanetti> elopio, what's the contents of plugins/date-time ?
[18:44] <ogra_> mzanetti, thats not a webapp-container ... its an actual webview in a qml app, to make any use of accounts i would have to integrate theapp itself with the auth mechnaism ... just adding the patterns wont help
[18:44] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, where u learned to bulild?
[18:44] <Kekambas> *build
[18:44] <elopio> mzanetti: cpp and qml sources, and the qmldir where Ubuntu.SystemSettings.TimeDate is defined.
[18:44] <mzanetti> ogra_, while I agree using OA would be the preferred way, I'm pretty sure you could make it work in app quite easily
[18:45] <elopio> I tried also with builddir/plugins/date-time, which will have the .so
[18:45] <mzanetti> elopio, ok... that's the issue
[18:45] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: build? you mean where I learnt programming?
[18:45] <mzanetti> elopio, you'd need to move them to subdirs matching the import statement
[18:45] <mzanetti> elopio, example:
[18:45] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, yes
[18:45] <cwayne> Kekambas, there's all sorts of news scopes, a fitbit scope, etsy, yelp, really whatever you want
[18:45] <mzanetti> elopio, you import Foo.Bar 1.0
[18:46] <mzanetti> elopio, -I needs to point to a folder containing "Foo/Bar/qmldir"
[18:46] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: self-study, school, work
[18:46] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, im trying to learn but theres so much stuff and i dont know where to start
[18:46] <mzanetti> elopio, usually one would set up the project in a way that the build dir produces such a folder layout
[18:46] <ogra_> mzanetti, i'm still trying to understand what OAuth actually gains me
[18:47] <ogra_> apart from not having the user to type in his credentials on first use
[18:47] <mzanetti> ogra_, that's something, isn't it? :)
[18:48] <Kekambas> cwayne, thank you, what about battery performance in UT?
[18:48] <mzanetti> ogra_, also, for me webapps without OA integration expire the credentials regularly which is annoying
[18:48] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: I started because I missed some feature and tried to implement it by myself
[18:48] <Sleep_Walker> that is good way :)
[18:48] <dobey> mzanetti: i get that for ones that do use OA integration too though
[18:48] <dobey> well, at least, i've consistently had that issue with untappd
[18:49] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, i just want to create new stuff. like a browser
[18:49] <mzanetti> dobey, oh really... that seems to work quite well for me
[18:49] <dobey> which is the only app i much care about
[18:49] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: so, you miss whatsapp scope? create one
[18:49] <dobey> i don't have that issue with twitter though of course
[18:49] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, how i start?
[18:49] <dobey> Kekambas: you don't want to write a browser. trust me.
[18:49] <elopio> mzanetti: ok, progress!
[18:49] <elopio> thanks.
[18:49] <Kekambas> dobey, why?
[18:50] <mzanetti> elopio, great :)
[18:50] <elopio> mzanetti: is that like a QML best practice, to use directories for the namespace ?
[18:50] <dobey> Kekambas: because it's like building a house on a minefield.
[18:50] <elopio> mzanetti: or is it just to workaround a limitation on the testtool?
[18:51] <Kekambas> dobey, if you point the right direction  can start
[18:51] <mzanetti> elopio, that's how it works. not just for the testtool
[18:51] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: no browser - browser make your head bigger, more painful and you'll hate yourself
[18:51] <dobey> Kekambas: i'm pointing you in the right direction. that direction is "don't write a web brwoser" :)
[18:51] <Kekambas> dobey, http://i.imgur.com/WA9TwtG.png
[18:51] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: start reading here and experimenting https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/sdk/tutorials/
[18:51] <Sleep_Walker> (not that I have read it though :)
[18:52] <Kekambas> lol
[18:52] <dobey> having actually written a brwoser, i can confidently say you should not write a browser.
[18:52] <Sleep_Walker> I knew one guy who wrote his own browser - he was no longer able to have social life :)
[18:53] <Sleep_Walker> (and the browser is links! :)
[18:53] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, lol. t cant be that hard
[18:55] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, i will start with scopes, but i guess it cant be done using windows, right?
[18:56] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: I'm not dev here (yet)
[18:57] <Sleep_Walker> I have to bring ubuntu sdk to my distros first
[18:57] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, well, but at least you know your thing
[18:57] <SturmFlut> It is just unbelievable how broken Android 5.x is on Nexus devices.
[18:59] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, which one is harder to dev, apks or scopes?
[18:59] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: I have zero experience with Ubuntu Touch interface and programming for that
[19:02] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, so what exactly you know?
[19:02] <Sleep_Walker> hehehe
[19:02] <Sleep_Walker> Kekambas: what should I answer you here?
[19:03] <ogra_> everything !
[19:03] <ogra_> ;)
[19:03] <Kekambas> Sleep_walker, what do you know to build?
[19:03] <Sleep_Walker> I don't know, I have patches spread around in some project
[19:03] <Sleep_Walker> *projects
[19:07] <elopio> mzanetti: any clues about where to put the plugin?
[19:07] <elopio> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10857724/
[19:07] <mzanetti> elopio, same dir as the qmldir file
[19:09] <ogra_> Kekambas, what do you want to build ?
[19:17] <mariogrip> how to generate blacklist keyring? (on a system-image server)
[19:17] <mariogrip> stgraber: ^
[19:18] <ogra_> you take a whitelist keyring and black paint ;)
[19:20] <mariogrip> ogra_: lol :P
[19:24] <elopio> yay, it runs on qmlscene!
[19:24] <elopio> kenvandine: so, to get the system settings QML tests working, we need to change the folder hierarchy of the plugins.
[19:25] <mariogrip> Tassadar: btw, do multirom require blacklist keyring?
[19:25] <kenvandine> elopio, what ever it takes :)
[19:25] <Tassadar> ?
[19:25] <kenvandine> well... without breaking stuff :)
[19:25] <Tassadar> hm
[19:25] <Tassadar> I think it downloads it
[19:25] <Tassadar> but doesn't checkit
[19:25] <kenvandine> elopio, we have qml tests that work already though
[19:25] <Tassadar> but the system-image-upgrader in recovery does
[19:26] <mariogrip> do you know if  system-image-upgrader fails without it?
[19:26] <elopio> kenvandine: but they all go behind the UI, right?
[19:27] <Tassadar> no, it doesn't, I think
[19:27] <kenvandine> elopio, i don't think so, but they don't run in qmlscene
[19:27] <Kekambas> ogra_, a very weird browser
[19:27] <elopio> kenvandine: can you show me an example?
[19:27] <dobey> why would any qmltests run in qmlscene?
[19:28] <dobey> i thought that's what qmltestrunner is for
[19:28] <elopio> the ones I found were like for the models, not the UI widgets.
[19:28] <kenvandine> elopio, look at tests/plugins/system-update
[19:28] <kenvandine> oh... maybe they don't do UI
[19:28] <elopio> dobey: yes, qmltestrunner. Just using qmlscene here to find out how to isolate the qml file.
[19:28] <kenvandine> oh, and network isn't qml
[19:29] <ogra_> Kekambas, so go ahead ... thats pretty easy :)
[19:29] <mariogrip> Tassadar: okay, i think i got everything to ready for ubuntu touch work with multirom on my oneplus one now. i will give it test now.
[19:29] <kenvandine> i guess all we have are unit tests there
[19:29] <kenvandine> i thought there was something....
[19:29] <Kekambas> ogra_ i really dont think it will be that simple
[19:29] <Kekambas> its kinda complicated
[19:29] <kenvandine> elopio, well i'm open for it, as long as it doesn't make the plugin public
[19:29] <dobey> yes, browsers are very complicated
[19:29] <elopio> kenvandine: which are great. We also need more of those unit tests :)
[19:30] <dobey> well, web browsers are. a grocery list browser maybe not so much
[19:30] <mariogrip> Tassadar: btw, if multiromgr has downloaded ubuntu touch and failed to install, do it need to download it again?
[19:30] <Tassadar> you can check the box in settings
[19:30] <Tassadar> to not download it again
[19:30] <ogra_> Kekambas, https://ograblog.wordpress.com/2015/03/22/an-alternate-approach-to-ubuntu-phone-web-app-containers/ ... feel free to grab my code as a starting point (or to learn)
[19:31] <elopio> kenvandine: I don't know anything about private modules. Would it be a problem moving plugin/time-date/* to pluign/test-date/Ubuntu/SystemSettings/TimeDate, for example?
[19:31] <mariogrip> Tassadar: ok, thanks
[19:31] <Tassadar> it deletes it by default, because it takes a lot of space
[19:31] <elopio> sorry, s/test-date/time-date
[19:31] <Kekambas> ogra_ thank you, will do
[19:32] <kenvandine> elopio, we could do that and still be private
[19:32] <kenvandine> but i'd need to think about it
[19:32] <kenvandine> i have to step out for a few, bbl
[19:33] <zzarr> hello fellow ubuntu users, I'm trying to find out how to install ubuntu on my phone, a Motorola Droid 4, I have downloaded the latest cyanogenmod and phablet debootstrap
[19:34] <zzarr> but, I feel lost, I don't have any idea how to proceed
[19:35] <ogra_> there is a porting guide ... see the topic
[19:36] <zzarr> I know, I try to follow it
[19:37] <ogra_> i guess you rather want the AOSP source btw ...
[19:37] <ogra_> i think thats available forthe droid, no ?
[19:37] <zzarr> I tried to find it, but I don't think it is
[19:39] <Kekambas> ogra_, does all scopes and apps are together?
[19:40] <zzarr> is there a step by step porting guide for ubuntu using cm?
[19:40] <ogra_> Kekambas, can you re-phrase that ?
[19:41] <Kekambas> ogra_ ok, i thought that apps and scopes where in different menus
[19:42] <ogra_> apps and scopeds appear differently on the phone
[19:42] <Kekambas> ogra_ i cant find any scope menu
[19:42] <ogra_> on your phone you mean ?
[19:42] <Kekambas> yes
[19:42] <ogra_> swipe from the bottom up ...
[19:42] <ogra_> if there is no app open
[19:43] <ogra_> there you get the scope manager
[19:43] <Kekambas> ok
[19:43] <Kekambas> i have to swipe like to open the task manager
[19:43] <Kekambas> ?
[19:44] <Kekambas> from right to left?
[19:44] <Kekambas> ooooo
[19:44] <Kekambas> nvm
[19:44] <Kekambas> i got u
[19:47] <Sleep_Walker> so in general, click packages are like deb packages with different prefix directory
[19:47] <ogra_> lol
[19:47] <Sleep_Walker> am I wrong?
[19:48] <ogra_> click packages are internally like debs, thats about right ... but clicks have no postinst scripts that could alter anything, and have no dependencies ... and they are integrated with apparmor
[19:48] <ogra_> so their execution environment is extremely limited
[19:49] <Sleep_Walker> apparmor - I feel safe already :
[19:49] <Sleep_Walker> :)
[19:51] <dobey> click packages don't have a "prefix" either really. everything has to work within it's own arbitrary sub-directory that it is installed to, without having paths hardcoded in the build
[19:51] <Sleep_Walker> but yes, it makes sense, but also it removes all the benefits of package management and shared libraries - there will be no dependencies...
[19:52] <zzarr> if I use cm as base for the android lxc, what files would I need?
[19:52] <ogra_> it adds the benefits of being able to ship only the libs you need at the version you need inside the click ... at the cost of diskspace though
[19:52] <zzarr> will I need*
[19:52] <dobey> Sleep_Walker: well, not all. the SDK is the set of dependencies an app has. anything outside the scope of the SDK should be included in the app package itself
[19:53] <ogra_> zzarr, you need a completely cut down build of the HAL without java and everything, with the ubuntu bits (hybris) added
[19:54] <zzarr> yes, I know, no dalvik... only drivers
[19:54] <ogra_> and the services the drivers need to be able to function
[19:54] <zzarr> but where are the drivers located?
[19:55] <dobey> and a kernel build with the ubuntu features/patches enabled
[19:55] <zzarr> yes, them too
[19:55] <dobey> ie, apparmor and such
[19:55] <ogra_> right
[19:55] <dobey> you have to get the drivers from Motorola I presume (or they should already be in an AOSP tree soewhere)
[19:55] <ogra_> for the binary drivers there is likely some info in CM that you can find about where to get them
[19:56] <ogra_> for the kernel drivers ... well, you build a kernel with your build
[19:57] <zzarr> I have built kernels for debian, is it the same?
[19:57] <ogra_> have you ever built android before ?
[19:58] <ogra_> (and no, it is not the same )
[19:58] <ogra_> it definitely helps if oyu have some experience with android building ... if you dont, be prepared that you need to learn more :)
[19:59] <zzarr> I think /system/vendor looks interesting
[20:04] <zzarr> do I need the hole /system/vendor folder?
[20:17] <zzarr> I get this message:  both HOST_OUT and PRODUCT_OUT should be set at this point  but what values should I set them to?
[20:18] <brunch875> damn! My brother just stomped my ubuntu installation by installing a newer windows
[20:18] <brunch875> windows sure is partition-friendly
[20:19] <zzarr> windows is headache friendly
[20:21] <zzarr> you should be able to boot from a usb-stick or cd and mount your system (mount it as it was mounted when running)
[20:21] <brunch875> I believe the entire partition was wiped
[20:22] <brunch875> because I couldn't find it with grub rescue
[20:22] <brunch875> oh well
[20:22] <zzarr> ohh... :(
[20:22] <brunch875> it doesn't matter, git rocks <3
[20:23] <zzarr> yes, but installing all the packages and everything take some time
[20:23] <BOHverkill> brunch875: yes it does ;)
[20:23] <zzarr> depending on hardware and internet
[20:23] <brunch875> right now i'm on the live USB I always have with me
[20:23] <brunch875> but it takes awful long to boot
[20:23] <zzarr> :)
[20:24] <brunch875> makes me wonder if ubuntu-touch will give us a faster liveUSB :)
[20:24] <brunch875> I'm very excited about the whole project
[20:24] <zzarr> me too
[20:28] <mzanetti> ogra_, hmm... imgur-share seems to work fine here
[20:29] <zzarr> dang, I hate websites that throw messages in my face, especially when I'm about to click on a link and hit another... sorry I just got a bit frustrated
[20:29] <ogra_> mzanetti, weird, must be some network issue on my side then :/
[20:30] <zzarr> anyone how know what HOST_OUT and PRODUCT_OUT are for?
[20:32] <zzarr> well I have to sleep, it's getting late
[20:33] <zzarr> bye
[20:33] <brunch875> good night zzarr
[20:41] <studio_> one question, is i deleted too much missing icons/links for the desktop (.desktop) will they be "re-newed" on the next update?
[20:46] <mcphail> studio_: icons are renewed if you reinstall the app
[20:48] <dobey> if the app is installed and you just rmed the file from ~/.local/share/applications/ they will be recreated on reboot
[20:48] <studio_> hmm. not sure what app is missing now on vivid, but i have seen some scopes do not have an icon. for exp. 7digital, Amazon, eBay, etc. where to delete these scopes?
[20:52] <dobey> deleting the scopes probably won't fix the missing icons
[20:52] <dobey> The ones that are remote scopes, you also can't really delete; you just unfavorite them
[20:54] <studio_> dobey, when i am on applications and i wipe up there are scopes with a missing icons
[20:54] <dobey> ok
[20:54] <dobey> so file a bug
[20:55] <studio_> no
[20:55] <studio_> the bug is to change from 14.10 to vivid
[20:55] <dobey> *sigh*
[20:55] <studio_> that bug is known
[20:55] <dobey> then wait for an update that fixes it
[20:56] <studio_> ok
[21:18] <studio_> is still someone here?
[21:19] <studio_> what about an voice memo app? is there one?
[21:36] <muka> studio_, I do not know but go to terminal and enter arecord <file-name>
[21:38] <muka> arecord ~/Music/record_001.wav
[21:39] <muka> this should work
[21:43] <mibofra> hi guys, a question. The ubuntu touch images for x86 generic platforms are based on aosp (flipped-mode, kernel and hardware control, into lxc) as the arm based images?
[21:44]  * mibofra has not had the time to test them really, so that's why he's asking :) .