[00:56] dpkg -l xscreensaver [00:56] whoops, did it again [00:57] I can be excused though, I think I broke my main desktop after a clean install [00:58] not sure what's going on yet but after about six or seven minutes, it hangs, monitors go blank as if in suspend mode, but machine is just hung, not suspended. [01:03] also, but not as serious, after a reboot, I get a completely blank, white screen and I have to click the mouse to get the login prompt. [01:10] so, elfy, you can consider this a 64-bit fail on hardware (jjf-desk-main). The thing won't stay up long enough for me to file a bug and put it on the tracker. [01:11] that's it for tonight. tomorrow... restore from backup :( [02:04] Extras stats: http://paste.openstack.org/show/uNgVgE4ojXMsuEqyfBkz/ [05:18] elfy: could you please extend my xubuntu-qa membership? [06:12] happy release day everyone! [06:12] i'll be out until the afternoon [06:13] yey! :P [06:13] then i can help with release notes etc [06:14] but feel free to push those things ahead even without me [06:17] bluesabre: Right, so that last xfpm you sponsored lost the lxpanel plugin. [06:33] Happy release day, peeps! How are we with the images? I was busy (and tired) yesterday rehearsing and celebrating, so didn't check the status. :) [06:37] bluesabre: Looking now (with Lubuntu people), looks like changed deps. :D [07:00] Oh right, you might want the log: https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-power-manager_1.4.3-0ubuntu2_i386.build [07:03] jjfrv8: I'm expired too. [07:06] everyone will the week after release [07:07] if you mean to ping dkessel instead of jjfrv8 :p [07:13] Bah, yeah. [08:34] knome: you going to allude to the image/vbox issue - or shall I do that on the wiki release note? [08:37] morning [08:37] mornign Luyin [08:52] elfy, my membership in xubuntu-qa team is due to expire. Will I have a chance on another go? [09:28] elfy, not sure, feel free to put it in the wiki and i'll ask around if we want to duplicate it on the announcement [10:09] Unit193: dang [10:12] Unit193: I think the system tray is back in 1.4.3, they can enable that as a last second fix [10:13] oh, nvm, that looks like its in 1.4.4 [10:15] did the lxpanel plugin break in 1.4.3, or did something change in the newer lxpanel code? [10:15] curious [10:52] elfy: I see you did a new build yesterday. Anything useful for us on that one? [10:53] I'm considering to mark ours ready, but just want to check if you might know of a bug that we don't [10:57] Or, if anyone else can tell me :) [11:09] knome: ok [11:10] zequence: the vbox restart issue is about all that's nasty afaik === qwebirc916967 is now known as slickymasterWork [11:15] knome: put together some vivid screenshots if you want them https://www.dropbox.com/s/3e8sbe9zzq8t442/vivid.tar.gz?dl=0 [11:17] back from work - doing the wiki release note [11:17] looking like mid-afternoon releaseish [11:21] cool [11:27] need to go get ready for work now, bbl [11:27] have fun with the release :) === qwebirc422687 is now known as slickymasterWork [11:53] well for better or worse, we'll not be getting many new tracker reports I guess [12:03] elfy: Are we in need of any? [12:05] I could head home and work a couple of hours from there, and run a test or two if that's the case. [12:09] astraljava: no - all's cool and as good as it'll get ::) [12:09] thanks for offering though :) [12:09] Ok, just checking. :) [12:11] :) [12:35] elfy, mid-afternoon UTC? [12:36] believe so [12:36] heh [12:36] guess i'd better do something before the in-laws crash in here then [12:36] [10:36] flexiondotorg: Aiming for mid-afternoon London time, ish. [12:37] what ever "mid-afternoon" means [12:37] not yet :D [12:37] yeah.. [12:38] built what I can for the wiki note now [12:38] elfy, did you pick up the new app versions from the pad already? [12:38] yeah you did [12:39] so which of the bugs would you "highlight" on the announcement? [12:39] I don't know of anything earth shattering [12:39] i would +1 the notes plugin [12:39] I made a note re vbox [12:40] that perhaps [12:40] mhm [12:40] though I've only seen one random report of it from some guy :D [12:40] hah [12:40] :) [12:40] was it ochosi or bluesabre who said "just running the notes plugin" would fix it [12:40] implying they know that it can happen [12:41] (it didn't help though) [12:41] right [12:44] did we get rid of the shutdown/boot problem? [12:44] not the livesession, the after-install [12:45] elfy, and if you can proofread the announcement part on the pad, great [12:45] that should be pretty good now from my side [12:45] look now [12:45] yeh, i notice :) [12:46] yep - ack that [12:46] ok, i'll move to web soon so it's i publishable state [12:46] knome: yea - that was the beta bug for a similar thing [12:47] mhm [12:47] because the livesession thing isn't worth pulling to announcement [12:47] nope [12:48] it's on the release notes with a note too [12:48] i edited the wiki formatting and added a note about the notes plugin [12:53] elfy, http://xubuntu.org/?p=3106&preview=true [12:53] elfy, please preview [12:53] next the download links [12:53] * knome sighs [12:54] knome: yep - looks fine [12:54] ta [12:55] certainly works better with the site being 'chatty' and the 'wiki' less chatty just the detail [12:56] yes [12:56] that's how i've visioned it [12:57] http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/1504-download.txt [12:57] that's the COMPLETE download page code [12:58] uhm, except it fails with unicode :) [13:00] ok, fixed that.. [13:00] so you just need to copy that *all* to the text part [13:01] ok - so if you're away at release - I can publish and edit the download page with that? [13:01] yeah [13:01] cool [13:01] thanks :) [13:02] in-laws are here any minute [13:02] yep [13:02] I'll be about so all bases covered :) [13:04] yep, ta [13:04] i'll be checking the situation out now and then if i've failed with something ;) [13:04] :) [14:53] ok, back [14:53] so where do we stand? [14:55] Just checked cdimage (for xubuntu), and it looks like the release is there. [14:56] and the torrent is seeded. [14:56] torrents are up [15:01] ochosi: notes and page are ready, download page will need updating - just waiting on infinity now [15:02] cool! [15:04] i'm wondering whether should mention the visual glitch with indicator-power [15:04] i still haven't had time to figure that one out [15:04] or to be more exact: haven't been able to reproduce it [15:04] glitch? [15:04] so for upgraders from 14.04, that'd be relevant (although it's only a small issue) [15:05] drc: well the dark icon [15:05] bug 1446605 ? [15:05] bug 1446605 in xubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "Power indicator icons are incorrect " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446605 [15:05] if so - mentioned on the wiki release note [15:07] oh alright, hadn't looked there yet [15:07] thanks [15:10] * drc wonders if it's connected to the dark/darker/darkest icons sets? (don't have 15.04 loaded to test) [15:14] ochosi: did you look at the draft announcement? [15:25] publishing [15:27] get xubuntu page updated [15:32] elfy: i did [15:32] front page widget updated [15:33] hating html taggy things I'll leave the footer 1 widget alone :) [15:33] just needs social media thing done now I think [15:33] great! [15:39] ochosi: you'd better double check though :) [16:06] elfy, updated footer [16:07] tweeted too [16:07] bbl -> [16:19] posted to fb and g+ [16:23] thanks knome and pleia2 :) [16:35] Has canonical lost their minds? I heard through the phoronix grape vine that they are dropping .deb and going to snappy? any clarification on this whopper? [16:37] i doubt upstream is dropping .deb anytime soon [16:37] there is a snappy core project.. [16:37] http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/ [16:38] Ubuntu's Desktop-Next moving to snappy it says [16:38] thats on phoronix [16:38] i would probably /join and ubuntu dev community [16:38] nerdistmonk: instead of asking in here - why not ask in #ubuntu-devel [16:38] did i miss something here? is xubuntu not taking in any changes ubuntu makes to their core OS now? [16:38] or the ubuntu mailing lists.. i bet the dev list there would have archives relevant that one could publically search [16:39] nerdistmonk: debs are in 15.04 [16:39] nerdistmonk: we've not heard anything - and we'd ask in an Ubuntu channel rather than phoronix [16:39] and im trying to inform you they plan on changing that in 15.10 [16:39] debs are in debian.. i think there is a misunderstanding, or assumption somewhere.. but, im sure you can find facts and details upstream [16:40] Xubuntu is ubuntu is it not? or did you guys jump ship and xubuntu is its own unique thing seperate from canonical? [16:40] correct.. xubuntu is an official flavor.. but, this is not the canonical community [16:42] i dont care about ubuntu the distro, i care about the OS im currently planted on (xubuntu) suddenly being incompatible with debian packages. Sorry if i was having trouble relaying this concern to you. if its a ubuntu only issue, then who cares, as long as it does not spread to xubuntu which is what im worried about. [16:42] nerdistmonk: also - Ubuntu-Next is not Ubuntu [16:42] yeah, they are just different projects.. [16:42] ok then [16:42] panic /off [16:42] panic? [16:42] one can always make ones own buntu.. no need for panic.. its *all* open [16:43] ha right. [16:43] nerdistmonk: if you want to know more about snappy and the plans moving forward the best place is #snappy but there are a lot of things to work out for a snappy desktop and all the flavours will be taken into account if it moves that way [16:44] < thanks davmor2 [16:44] nerdistmonk: sure.. its just that, there is no guarantee of that.. upstream debian could go with something that would trickle down, for example [16:45] debian has zero plans to dump .deb [16:45] this is _all_ canonical [16:45] but as you all said, its only on their side project [16:45] nerdistmonk: i never said they did.. *but* there are many parts of the system to "panic" about [16:45] I don't have to put up with this crap [16:45] nerdistmonk: really - please go and find out the reality [16:46] there is also the offtopic channel.. more appropriate for dicussion [16:46] !ot [16:46] #xubuntu is the Xubuntu support channel, #xubuntu-devel for discussion regarding development of Xubuntu, and #xubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome! [16:53] I apologize...sorry [16:53] :) [16:54] I plead senility (get off my lawn!) [16:56] The 15.04 release looks pretty good...DL was fast (torrent), ISO burn to USB was good, USB boot was good, install was good (restart button worked, but didn't ask me to remove media...is it still supposed to?). [16:57] it should [16:57] it asked me last time I checked hardware [16:58] The button has worked (but w/o asking) for me since at least B2. [16:58] right [16:58] biab [18:46] bluesabre: Right, so how it works. The lxpanel.pc file declared a dep on libmenu-cache-dev but 'lxpanel' doesn't declare this, so xfpm had to. With lxpanel 0.7.1 this changed to libfm-dev and we didn't follow this (not really our fault, IMO) However, adding that and rebuilding gives a ftbfs (linked) in the xfpm lxpanel plugin. [19:01] knome: You want the honors in #x or do I? [19:03] !magnets [19:03] knome: xubuntu-15.04-desktop-i386.iso: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8bc50171645e518b7008248336c2dec18d266490&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce - xubuntu-15.04-desktop-amd64.iso: magnet:?xt=urn:btih:a8db93f41d8d3fc0951302d5606d819c9f59e1d0&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:03] Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:28] Unit193, feel free to.. [19:31] !magnets-15.04 [19:31] Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:31] hmm. [19:32] !magnets-15.04 [19:32] !magnets [19:32] Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:32] !magnets-15.04 [19:32] !+magnets-15.04 [19:32] magnets-#xubuntu [19:32] i thought i changed it. [19:33] If you do it that way, !magnets will need updated too. [19:33] no, that's correct [19:33] i want to change the alias, but ubottu won't let me [19:34] 22:34 knome: !no, magnets-15.04-#xubuntu-devel is magnets-15.04-#xubuntu [19:34] 22:34 ubottu: You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm [19:34] then i repeat [19:34] and it doesn't change [19:34] Off top -ops or -irc. [19:34] i've hit this before, there was some workaround [19:36] !magnets-15.04 [19:36] Magnets for Xubuntu 15.04 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8bc50171645e518b7008248336c2dec18d266490&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:36] there we go [19:37] edit to then edit back to [19:37] stupid bot [19:39] !magnets [19:39] Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.1 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:b84ef35a9dbf503703f069ebcdcfaedaee326c1c&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:39] knome: Going to update that then to .2? [19:40] gimme the magnet links [19:40] or are they the same? [19:42] bug 1447793 [19:43] bug 1447793 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "Can't change alias destinations" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1447793 [19:43] bug 1309533 [19:43] bug 1309533 in Ubuntu IRC Bots "Can't edit factoids that are aliases to nonexisting factoids" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309533 [19:43] Interesting [19:43] How about the fact that ubottu uses sqlite0? [19:43] sqlite1 rather. [19:44] Unit193, you can file a bug for that yourself :P [19:44] Needs people with more free time. :/ [19:45] knome: Don't want to make !magnets current? [19:45] !torrents [19:45] Xubuntu Utopic (14.10) torrents can be downloaded from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/utopic/release/desktop/xubuntu-14.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent and http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/utopic/release/desktop/xubuntu-14.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent [19:45] (Don't correct that, it's auto updating.) [19:45] !+torrents [19:45] torrents-#xubuntu [19:46] !+torrents-#xubuntu [19:46] Xubuntu $curStable ($curStableNum) torrents can be downloaded from http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/$curStableLower/release/desktop/xubuntu-$curStableNum-desktop-i386.iso.torrent and http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/$curStableLower/release/desktop/xubuntu-$curStableNum-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent [19:46] Unit193, LTS is the preferred [19:46] ./!magnets-lts ? [19:46] so maybe torrents should link to LTS too [19:46] Can't due to point releases. [19:46] aha [19:46] well, can [19:46] i would prefer !magnets and !torrents for latest LTS [19:47] but i guess it doesn't matter TOO much [19:47] but just proves you should have factoid editing rights [19:48] xubuntu-14.04.2-desktop-i386.iso.torrent [19:48] magnet:?xt=urn:btih:a1778a5ee0f1a563e8fdfc4c79ad4f17a82a396f&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:48] unit193@Sigma:~/Torrents$ getmagnet xubuntu-14.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent [19:48] magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4a211f9547243f81ca7689539fdd4ccb0875e22e&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [19:48] knome: Not when I can just have you and IdleOne do it! ;) [19:50] Unit193, there you go! :D [19:50] :( [19:50] so whatever you do, tell me what is is [19:50] *it [19:51] i'm fine with !torrents and !torrents-lts too i guess [19:51] but then plz drop -15.04 :P [19:51] (or in any case really, and make it generic) [19:51] I'd really prefer it, but of course you're lead. I like more generic too, else you get new factoid for every release. :P [20:20] So xMir images up, -core to follow. [20:37] knome: I remembered, done. [20:37] what did you remember? [20:37] !magnets [20:37] !magnets-lts [20:37] Magnets for Xubuntu 15.04 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8bc50171645e518b7008248336c2dec18d266490&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:1b5fad4d440f07546fdf9e519b1f254352cd4680&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [20:37] Magnets for Xubuntu 14.04.2 (i386) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:a1778a5ee0f1a563e8fdfc4c79ad4f17a82a396f&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce (amd64) magnet:?xt=urn:btih:4a211f9547243f81ca7689539fdd4ccb0875e22e&tr=http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce [20:37] ok, nice [20:38] gah. [21:52] cyphermox: Bit late now, sure. But did anyone test that eject fix in UEFI? [21:52] Unit193: I don't know, can't remember if I did [21:52] it certainly would be broken in vbox [21:52] I'm not sure if UEFI would really impact the ejection [21:54] qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -bios '/usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd' -boot d -m 512 -cdrom 'xubuntu-core-15.04-amd64.iso' -localtime -hda fat:/home/unit193/hda/ (UEFI locked down mode) didn't work on Enter to power off the system, but BIOS mode seems to work fine. Granted, UEFI gets xubuntu-logo and BIOS gets xubuntu-text. [21:55] cyphermox: Anywho, just noted, not really important I'd think. Thanks. [21:56] the difference in which splash you get is not UEFI but the graphics driver. [21:58] Only difference in command is dropping -bios '/usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd' so I just called it that for ease. [21:58] Unit193: did you use Try or Install? [21:58] Try. [21:58] k [21:58] well, trying now :) [21:58] cyphermox: From syslinux screen. [21:58] and did you go restart or shutdown? [21:59] Shutdown (why did I type 'shower'??) [22:00] I thought pitti had made some last minute changes to ubiquity to fix this [22:01] * cyphermox sighs [22:01] cyphermox: Sorry. Anywho, it's after the release, so too late. [22:02] well, no, it's not too late for 15.10 [22:03] Right, anywho. For anyone interested the "community respin", Xubuntu Core ISOs, torrents, zsync, etc. are: https://unit193.net/xubuntu/ for 32/64 supporting locked down UEFI too. [22:03] knome: ----^ :P [22:03] knome: I could get you magnets too. :D [22:04] what? [22:04] :P [22:05] Unit193: locked down UEFI? [22:06] Unit193: heh, what do you know, I also can't shutdown properly in UEFI while it works on BIOS [22:06] might be a ovmf issue though [22:06] and now I need to accompany my wife to do some shopping, back later. [22:06] cyphermox: Nothing special. UEFI systems that aren't unlocked, using the MS key, etc. [22:07] cyphermox: I'm not likely using the same version of ovmf though. Heh, have "fun" [22:07] Locked down = secure boot. [22:07] I don't mind it ;) [22:07] * Unit193 shrugs. [22:11] knome: Soooo, what do you want me to do with them now anywho? ;P [22:12] with core ISOs? [22:12] Yea. [22:12] dunno [22:13] wait until I finish to download https://unit193.net/xubuntu/xubuntu-core-15.04-i386.iso Unit193 [22:13] slickymaster: Did a quick smoketest, everything should be good (didn't install it, but meh.) [22:14] I will tomorrow Unit193 [22:14] I'll let you know then what it went [22:14] s/what/how [22:14] Heh, alrighty-o! [22:14] (It's been tested before, just not this spin.) [22:15] yeah, I tested one before [22:15] Got the mir images up too, but those are hardly worthwhile now, IMO. [22:35] (late) evening all [22:35] hey ochosi [22:36] Howdy, ochosi. [22:39] hmm, so snappy packages [22:41] we seem to have a problem with elementary xfce darkest not having a theme cache [22:41] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AyY4Uy5FLhg/VTjP1hzL6ZI/AAAAAAAAWPU/-E62t8vhFfM/s1600/xubuntu-appearance_2.png [22:41] * drc looks for his shot gun and rock salt shells. [22:43] also, i'm wondering whether we should get rid of the no-headerbars patches for 15.10 [22:43] after all, they're going to work fine with or without compositor in the next release (with gtk3.16) [22:47] considering how silly headerbar apps look with a menu or titlebar on them, yeah [22:48] considering how silly headerbar apps look [22:48] :D [22:48] guess there's no avoiding that simple truth [22:49] dunno, i personally don't mind their look in simple apps like evince [22:49] doesn't work for everything or for all contexts [22:49] +1 [22:50] for instance, catfish would work fine with headerbar [22:50] parole not so much [22:50] Well, GNOME says you're wrong and should rethink your life, so clearly you're wrong. [22:50] xfce4-settings-manager would work fine with headerbar too [22:50] thunar, maybe not so much [22:50] :D [22:51] thunar 1.6.7-1 uploaded to experimental [22:51] xfce4-power-manager 1.4.4-2 uploaded to experimental [22:51] but also, the much acclaimed "visual inconsistency" doesn't hit me as hard as it used to [22:52] i think with focusing a bit more on making them look even more integrated, it could be just fine [22:52] even ubuntu/ambiance did a quite OK job at that for 15.04 [22:58] bluesabre or Unit193: could we get a package for xfpm-gtk3 (aka git master) soonish? [22:59] i have run into a bug i cannot debug and the OP isn't very helpful [22:59] (i dont have a desktop at hand, and it seems that is needed) [22:59] probably [23:01] i'm really lost with that bug [23:01] somehow upower seems to fail to provide an icon, which is sorta okayish (although i guess it could just return some basic fallback instead), my catching that and providing a fallback doesnt seem too work at all [23:04] that bites [23:04] the only time i was able to test (desktop in vbox) the plugin totally crashed, so i still couldn't reproduce the bug [23:05] that's the last bug holding me back from releasing 1.5.0 [23:06] I'll try to get the package up tonight then [23:07] i presume you don't have a desktop? [23:07] anyone else here, desktops? [23:07] i have a desktop [23:07] would you be willing to test? [23:07] now, or later? [23:08] well, anytime really [23:08] i can do that later, ping me tomorrow pretty much any time [23:08] nice [23:08] ok cool [23:08] it's not hard to compile but ideally you'd need 15.04 [23:08] cause of the depends [23:08] i am on 15.04 [23:09] perfect [23:09] then it's just a matter of cloning, apt-get build-dep and compiling [23:10] or grabbing from a ppa, potentially [23:10] bluesabre, i like that [23:11] :) [23:12] Unit193: any reason we don't make -core isos more official? [23:12] ochosi, testing [23:12] ochosi: Because they're on unit193.net. [23:12] knome: you mean lack thereof? [23:13] Not using Canonical infra. [23:13] ochosi, they would need testing, and it's not clear how that would be organized [23:13] we could use canonical infra, that's secondary imo [23:14] knome: It's had some testing over the vivid cycle by more than just me, FWIW. [23:15] yeah, also it's not *that different* after all [23:18] either way, we could still announce it on xubuntu.org imo [23:18] for now, as an exploratory "community project" [23:18] and aim for making it more official for 15.10 [23:18] Unit193: thoughts ^ ? [23:19] also, elfy ^ ? [23:19] what if we tried to pump up the discussion during the WW devel cycle? [23:19] yeah, that i'd wanna do either way [23:19] but frankly, the few times -core was mentioned on g+, it generated very positive feedback [23:19] i think there is an audience for it [23:19] what we need to discuss is the meta side [23:20] if we manage to engage them for it as a community project now, maybe we'd have them as testers later [23:20] eg. is desktop still our flagship (should be), what kind of testing would -core need, etc [23:20] sure, i agree [23:28] ochosi: My opinion? In the past I've wanted to keep it unofficial because I didn't want to add more load to QA, but elfy seemed fine with it so I'm with whatever he says. He did indicate it could be left at milestone testing too. [23:29] k, so let's discuss it with him first here and depending on the outcome, we can do the broader discussion knome indicated [23:30]