| * zmoylan-pi tests if it was the iron enriched corn by preparing the giant acme magnet... | 00:09 | |
| * daftykins slides along the ground toward zmoylan-pi | 00:09 | |
| zmoylan-pi | thank goodness for free shipping :-P | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| * zmoylan-pi reverses the polarity at the thought of daftykins approaching... | 00:10 | |
| daftykins | ;_; | 00:10 |
| * zmoylan-pi puts out free bagels to console daftykins | 00:11 | |
| daftykins | and treats for my cat? she was in my arms at the time | 00:13 |
| zmoylan-pi | she's a cat, she'll want some of whatever you're eating right up to the point of eating it. | 00:14 |
| daftykins | :> | 00:15 |
| penguin42 | perhaps she'll eat the holes | 00:16 |
| zmoylan-pi | of course some cats love cheese | 00:18 |
| daftykins | o0 | 00:18 |
| daftykins | she decorated the floor around me whilst i was poised on the tip of my sofa playing a game online with friends, Friday night | 00:19 |
| daftykins | i could only reach to push her off the rug at least :P | 00:19 |
| zmoylan-pi | and one of our cats adored porridge | 00:19 |
| zmoylan-pi | warm milky porridge | 00:19 |
| zmoylan-pi | perfect brekkie before a long morning snooze | 00:25 |
| penguin42 | which lasts until lunch | 00:28 |
| zmoylan-pi | then a light lunch preceding the afternoon snooze | 00:34 |
| penguin42 | which lasts until dinner | 00:40 |
| zmoylan-pi | or tea time depending on wether you're working class/middle class | 00:41 |
| zmoylan-pi | then if it's winter camping out to sleep as close to fireplace as is possible | 00:42 |
| penguin42 | yep, my type of life | 00:43 |
| zmoylan-pi | i swear if the fireplace we had didn't have a glass door on the front she'd have climbed in sometimes | 00:44 |
| zmoylan-pi | she sat so close that her nose had a tiny scar from touching the glass when she started to doze off | 00:45 |
| penguin42 | haha | 00:45 |
| daftykins | :D d'aww | 00:46 |
| zmoylan-pi | then after her fur got too hot to touch she'd fall asleep under sofa till she cooled down | 00:46 |
| zmoylan-pi | she was basically a huge heat sink in the house... :-) | 00:46 |
| daftykins | gah just missed a photo op of my cat using the TV remotes as a pillow | 00:47 |
| daftykins | :D | 00:47 |
| === zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi | ||
| Knightwise | morning everyone | 06:37 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| TheProphet[S] | Good morning all | 08:36 |
| TheProphet[S] | Anyone can help me understand why I have to boot in recovery mode and then resume normal boot to be able to start X in Ubuntu 15.04? If I start without the recovery step the screen remains blank | 08:37 |
| TheProphet[S] | Can anyone* and please* | 08:38 |
| TheProphet[S] | I guess it's a bit early on a Sunday to start asking that sort of question | 08:43 |
| brobostigon | morning boys and girls. | 09:22 |
| === shauno__ is now known as shauno | ||
| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| TheProphet[S] | Testing Bioshock infinite on 15.04 after update, if I manage to start the system | 11:31 |
| TheProphet[S] | It worked at first, although I'm not sure how it managed to send the output onto the hdmi even though analogue was selected | 11:32 |
| TheProphet[S] | I then quit the game and fiddled with the sound settings, restarted the game and Pc froze | 11:32 |
| TheProphet[S] | After a hard reboot video output is not visible, I can reboot by going to a tty, I don't see anything though, I just remember the sequence | 11:34 |
| TheProphet[S] | Then I boot into recovery mode, select resume normal boot and video starts like nothing ever happened. Is there a logical explanation to this? | 11:37 |
| TheProphet[S] | If I select normal boot procedure from Grub I just get a black screen | 11:37 |
| TheProphet[S] | Perhaps logic died with Leonard Nimoy | 11:39 |
| TheProphet[S] | Anyways someone yesterday asked if Bioshock infinite worked after 15.04 update, the answer is yes | 11:40 |
| TheProphet[S] | Although it freezes it seems | 11:41 |
| brobostigon | ST4 5* 13:15 | 11:42 |
| === lan3y is now known as Laney | ||
| TheProphet[S] | After a few seconds of game play, | 11:46 |
| TheProphet[S] | It froze and I had to reboot | 11:47 |
| penguin42 | Jessie seems to work | 12:23 |
| ali1234 | in general or for bioshock infinite? | 12:27 |
| penguin42 | generally | 12:30 |
| ali1234 | i just saw someone say that NFS mounts don't work properly | 12:30 |
| penguin42 | perfectly normal behaviour for NFS | 12:30 |
| ali1234 | but that was on raspberry pi so who knows what hacked up version they are using | 12:31 |
| ali1234 | well DBTS says it is supposed to be fixed | 12:31 |
| ali1234 | or are you just making a joke about NFS being rubbish? | 12:31 |
| penguin42 | well, it's not rubbish, but it does seem to need some TLC to keep it happy | 12:31 |
| ali1234 | this appears to specifically be the issue where systemd can't mount remote filesystems from fstab | 12:32 |
| penguin42 | ah, using systemd automount or explicit mounts? | 12:33 |
| ali1234 | having NFS mounts in /etc/fstab which work fine, until you upgrade to jessie, and then they don't | 12:33 |
| penguin42 | ah | 12:33 |
| ali1234 | but as i said, raspi, so it's probably hacked up | 12:34 |
| shauno | I haven't touched jessie yet. I'm a little paranoid about migrating non-systemd boxes to systemd when I can't physically reach them to mop up | 12:34 |
| ali1234 | i can't decide whether to go 15.04 or jessie | 12:34 |
| ali1234 | i'm on 14.04 at the moment | 12:34 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I'm not sure what the debian story is for Pi, it might be supported? | 12:34 |
| ali1234 | if i go 15.04 i'm stuck on the upgrade train until the next LTS | 12:35 |
| shauno | I suspect my task for the next few days is going to be duping them into VMs so I can play in a sandpit | 12:35 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: the debian story is "use raspbian" - which is basically a full rebuild of everything with a different arch | 12:36 |
| ali1234 | you can use debian armel i think, if you don't care it's not optimized | 12:37 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: nod, I suspect the Pi2 is less hastle because it's a newer CPU, but I've not followed the Pi much | 12:37 |
| ali1234 | right, the pi2 can run armhf so debian or ubuntu properly optimized | 12:37 |
| ali1234 | the pi1 is stuck with debian's lowest common denominator and cannot run ubuntu at all. hence raspbian | 12:38 |
| ali1234 | however they all have the same crazy bootloader stuff which requires non-trivial modification to the OS | 12:39 |
| penguin42 | nod | 12:39 |
| penguin42 | yeh but that stuff is fairly isolated; most of the userland packages after bootsetup should be OK | 12:41 |
| shauno | I think that meshes with what I tend to see - people boot raspbian, and then add jessie sources | 12:42 |
| penguin42 | generally on ARM stuff, once you get a fairly modern kernel running you can just slap your favorite userspace in; debootstrap being the easiest thing to do | 12:44 |
| ali1234 | but generally on ARM stuff you are tied to an ancient BSP which makes that impossible | 12:45 |
| penguin42 | yeh, it depends how new your userspace wants; pre systemd you could get away with a fairly old kernel | 12:47 |
| bashrc | ali1234: whether you go to jessie or 15.04 depends on whether you need recent package versions and don't mind upgrading every 6 months. I use Debian on the server and have been on Jessie for quite a while | 13:40 |
| ali1234 | i don't want to upgrade every six months | 13:41 |
| ali1234 | i want nvidia binary driver to work easily and be able to play games on steam | 13:41 |
| bashrc | then I'd stick with debian or ubuntu LTS | 13:41 |
| ali1234 | yes, which? | 13:41 |
| bashrc | depends which you prefer. Is this for desktop or server? | 13:42 |
| ali1234 | desktop | 13:42 |
| bashrc | with desktop I'd go for ubuntu LTS | 13:42 |
| ali1234 | i prefer ubuntu but i need newer packages than 14.04 has | 13:42 |
| bashrc | then you have the stability of an LTS, put also with the option to use PPAs | 13:42 |
| ali1234 | i don't care about stability | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | i just don't want to upgrade all the time | 13:43 |
| ali1234 | by upgrade i mean distro upgrade | 13:43 |
| bashrc | if you really don't care about stability then a rolling release like Arch might be the thing. I don't have any experience on that though | 13:44 |
| ali1234 | is there a rolling release distro that doesn't break every day worse than debian unstable? | 13:45 |
| ali1234 | arch is not it | 13:45 |
| ali1234 | rolling release appears to be an excuse not to ever test releases | 13:45 |
| bashrc | from my limited experience of rolling releases I think breakages are common. So going with an ubuntu LTS would seem to fit the requirements | 13:46 |
| bashrc | then if you need very recent packages you can probably just use a PPA | 13:46 |
| ali1234 | yes, except there won't be another one of those for 12 months | 13:46 |
| ali1234 | the newer packages i need include systemd | 13:46 |
| bashrc | ah, currently I don't think the ubuntu LTS uses systemd, although it might be possible to install it | 13:47 |
| ali1234 | it doesn't and it isn't | 13:47 |
| ali1234 | let me boil it right down to basics | 13:47 |
| ali1234 | i want systemd, nvidia driver, steam, recent xorg, xfce 4.12 all working out of the box, and two years support | 13:48 |
| ali1234 | also the moon on a stick | 13:48 |
| * DJones joking point ali1234 to ##windows :) | 13:48 | |
| DJones | How does steamos deal with that | 13:49 |
| bashrc | I don't know what xfce version jessie uses, but that requirements list sounds in jessie territory | 13:49 |
| ali1234 | well it doesn't have xfce 4.12 that's for sure | 13:49 |
| ali1234 | jessie has xfce 4.10 still, but that i can deal with | 13:50 |
| ali1234 | bigger issue is does nvidia driver work properly yet with a decently new version? | 13:50 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Hmm, the current LTS should get the new kernel/X in 6 months if they follow the previous pattern of hardware support | 13:50 |
| ali1234 | last time i tried debian it was a year behind and you had to install it manually | 13:50 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: but not systemd | 13:50 |
| ali1234 | i don't care about kernel at all ... | 13:51 |
| ali1234 | X is meh... as long as it has present | 13:51 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Well, fedora 22 gives you latest kernel, systemd, and X - but not the 2 year support | 13:51 |
| ali1234 | also RPM is horrible | 13:52 |
| penguin42 | yeh, I want to see what snappy is like | 13:52 |
| ali1234 | last time i tried an rpm distro it was impossible to build any of the packages from source without exactly duplicating the build server | 13:53 |
| penguin42 | that's actually not that hard, I've got the hang of rpmbuild | 13:53 |
| bashrc | I wrote a packaging system called packagemonkey which does rpm | 13:54 |
| ali1234 | oh sure, rpmbuild. should have worked, it just didn't | 13:55 |
| ali1234 | does it still try to build everything in hardcoded paths under your home directory that you have to rm -rf between every package to stop them conflicting? | 13:56 |
| bashrc | probably, but my packaging system handles all that drudge work | 13:56 |
| ali1234 | rpm already has a tool that does that - it makes a chroot, installs all dependencies in it, then builds the package with rpmbuild | 13:57 |
| diddledan | howdo | 13:57 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: almost, it's not quite hard coded but you can change it in a dot file; on one machine I have the %_topdir changed to build it elsewhere | 13:57 |
| ali1234 | and it didn't work properly either | 13:57 |
| ali1234 | well i think it goes without saying that rpm is off the table | 13:58 |
| ali1234 | the question is do i stay on 14.04, install 15.04, or jessie? | 13:58 |
| bashrc | if you need systemd then it's either 15.04 or jessie | 13:59 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 13:59 |
| bashrc | 15.04 might give you a newer xfce | 13:59 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: jessie isn't going to get you latest | 13:59 |
| ali1234 | don't need latest, just newer than 14.04 | 13:59 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Have you tried installing 14.04.2 - it will give you a different kernel/X than a 14.04 install unless you change the hardware support packages | 14:00 |
| ali1234 | i don't want a newer kernel | 14:00 |
| penguin42 | so what is it you want that's newer? | 14:01 |
| ali1234 | systemd | 14:01 |
| penguin42 | ah | 14:01 |
| penguin42 | then you need 15.04 | 14:01 |
| ali1234 | or jessie, as we have established :) | 14:01 |
| ali1234 | i think it has to be 15.04 really | 14:03 |
| ali1234 | i bet debian doesn't have all the ubuntu gnome patches that make gnome software not suck on all other desktops | 14:03 |
| penguin42 | although debian's gnome isn't that new, so maybe it's less of a problem? | 14:03 |
| ali1234 | it's been a problem since at least 3.12 | 14:04 |
| penguin42 | ah ok | 14:04 |
| bashrc | I think jessie uses gnome 3.14 | 14:05 |
| ali1234 | it does | 14:05 |
| penguin42 | yeh | 14:05 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: which desktop do you use and which gnome apps do you use with it? | 14:10 |
| ali1234 | xfce and the pdf viewer | 14:10 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Yeh I've switched to xfce, but I tend to use KDE's pdf viewer, okular | 14:11 |
| ali1234 | i've got a question | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | why is it when you see screenshots of KDE software, they never ever use oxygen, and always use that theme that looks like gtk? | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | https://okular.kde.org/images/screenies/okular-backend-pdf-1.png | 14:13 |
| penguin42 | because oxygen is really really screwed up ? | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | right. so why was it the default for so long? | 14:13 |
| penguin42 | well it's quite nice look, but the oxygen-gtk renderer just causes so many random bugs | 14:14 |
| ali1234 | oxygen looks awful | 14:14 |
| penguin42 | ok ok, it's a theme | 14:14 |
| ali1234 | it makes everything look slapped together | 14:14 |
| ali1234 | it looks awful for entirely objective reasons | 14:15 |
| * penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce | 14:15 | |
| ali1234 | which can't be fixed due to the way Qt works | 14:15 |
| ali1234 | what do you mean by "compact"? | 14:15 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I find the 'tabs' and buttons tend to use a lot of vertical space | 14:16 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It annoys me most on terminals, where the tab switching at the bottom takes a couple of rows space up | 14:16 |
| ali1234 | then don't use tabs? use separate windows? | 14:17 |
| * penguin42 likes tabs | 14:18 | |
| ali1234 | there's this thing called a taskbar where every window is a tab | 14:18 |
| ali1234 | and you can put it anywhere on the screen that you want. imagine that! | 14:18 |
| * penguin42 scatters terminals everywhere each with a few tabs in | 14:18 | |
| * penguin42 would just like his tabs to be a little less podgie | 14:18 | |
| ali1234 | what terminal? | 14:18 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I think it's the same on both terminator and xfce-terminal | 14:19 |
| ali1234 | yeah it is | 14:19 |
| ali1234 | oh, have you set "force dpi" to 96 dpi? | 14:19 |
| ali1234 | that is essential | 14:20 |
| penguin42 | yeh I'm pretty sure I've got that | 14:20 |
| ali1234 | and set font size to 11 pt? | 14:20 |
| penguin42 | see http://imagebin.ca/v/1zfYH9sBBh5a | 14:23 |
| ali1234 | what have you done... | 14:23 |
| penguin42 | haha | 14:23 |
| ali1234 | the tabs are the only thing in that picture that is the correct size | 14:23 |
| penguin42 | it's microcurve title bar theme, so that's nice and small, I've got a nice small font in the terminal - and these *HUGE* tabs | 14:24 |
| ali1234 | just set the system font to like 7 pt | 14:25 |
| penguin42 | but there seems to be so much padding around the text | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | yes, because without that it looks awful | 14:25 |
| penguin42 | (Default font is Sans 9) | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | without that padding it will look like KDE | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | where everything is squashed together and unreadable | 14:26 |
| penguin42 | well, I would like it a bit more squashed, like the title | 14:26 |
| penguin42 | it's readable but with no extra space | 14:26 |
| ali1234 | window borders are just bitmaps in xfwm | 14:26 |
| ali1234 | you will have to hack the gtk theme to get less padding on elements | 14:27 |
| ali1234 | it is written in css for gtk3 and something else for gtk2 | 14:27 |
| penguin42 | yeh, as I say, (15:15:18) ***penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce | 14:27 |
| ali1234 | and the css version breaks with every gtk release and someone has to spend several hours fixing it | 14:27 |
| ali1234 | gtk themes pretty much don't exist any more because of this | 14:28 |
| penguin42 | a sad state of affairs | 14:28 |
| ali1234 | xfce has dropped all themes except for greybird and numix | 14:28 |
| penguin42 | brb | 14:28 |
| ali1234 | i would switch to KDE if they made a decent theme | 14:31 |
| ali1234 | the new thing unfortunately does not seem to have fixed any of the alignment issues | 14:31 |
| ali1234 | they did at least get rid of the gradients and boxes everywhere though, so that's something | 14:32 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| ali1234 | maybe i should make a kde theme | 14:33 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I've just switched to xfce from KDE, I can't stand KDE5 | 14:35 |
| ali1234 | why? it's just the same thing with a much better theme | 14:36 |
| ali1234 | i would probably have to nuke the plasma trash though, and just run xfce panel or something | 14:37 |
| penguin42 | KDE without plasma? Sounds an odd thing to do | 14:38 |
| diddledan | kde3 was where it was at | 14:39 |
| diddledan | I liked kde3 | 14:39 |
| ali1234 | i think the pdf viewer might be the only app i use which is part of a "desktop environment" | 14:39 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: Yeh | 14:39 |
| diddledan | the switch between kde3 and 4 was jarring | 14:40 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: I went KDE3->Gnome (2?)->KDE4 (after about 4 years with Gnome2) | 14:40 |
| diddledan | like "wtf did you do?!" | 14:40 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: Yeh, KDE5 is like that now | 14:40 |
| ali1234 | http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/094/9/b/kde_5_mockup_2_0_by_linix_arts-d7cyuh7.png | 14:40 |
| diddledan | it was because of kde4 that I went ubuntu | 14:40 |
| ali1234 | this is hilarious | 14:40 |
| ali1234 | arn't mock ups supposed to look *good*? | 14:41 |
| ali1234 | at least they fixed the clock | 14:41 |
| diddledan | the colours in that are evil | 14:41 |
| diddledan | green "spotify" followedby "now playing" in white?! | 14:42 |
| ali1234 | now this, this looks good: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CBOhh_ywz1c/VH2TB-RMgKI/AAAAAAAAJyg/ZwiOjKgD-uo/s1600/Manjaro%2B0.8.11.jpg | 14:42 |
| diddledan | not just green but luminous green | 14:42 |
| ali1234 | i'm not even sure if that is KDE | 14:42 |
| diddledan | it really annoys me that anything running on kde MUST have a badly placed K in the name | 14:43 |
| diddledan | oKular | 14:44 |
| ali1234 | i don't mind that | 14:44 |
| diddledan | and that example with "piKture" | 14:44 |
| diddledan | and "Kontrol Panel" <-- why can't they call that "K Control Panel"? | 14:45 |
| ali1234 | oh wow that manjaro screenshot is xfce | 14:46 |
| ali1234 | i knew it was too good to be true | 14:46 |
| daftykins | just been to that castle mountain bikin' event | 16:55 |
| daftykins | https://www.dropbox.com/sh/15m8ehwwbwjo6nn/AACwtdSjK7Nc0HdIyNmedjx6a?dl=0 | 16:55 |
| shauno | you appear to have borrowed our weather | 17:13 |
| shauno | (no rush returning it btw, I'm getting kinda used to this bright light) | 17:14 |
| daftykins | shauno: :D | 17:17 |
| daftykins | foggy this morn, windy and 10 deg C this afty | 17:17 |
| shauno | we've had pretty much continuous sun. a bit grayer today, but still totally passable. | 17:21 |
| shauno | went up to dublin yesterday, got soaked to the skin, and promptly left again | 17:21 |
| diddledan | shauno: you're lying | 17:23 |
| diddledan | shauno: ireland doesn't have sun! | 17:23 |
| shauno | norly! | 17:23 |
| diddledan | serials? | 17:23 |
| penguin42 | shauno: the sun seems to be over here today | 17:24 |
| shauno | http://i.imgur.com/APkPbeF.jpg (just to add further shock, I've even been outside) | 17:27 |
| diddledan | I call shenanigans - that's america | 17:29 |
| shauno | lol | 17:29 |
| diddledan | nowai is ireland that pretty! | 17:29 |
| diddledan | so my masculinity extensions are installed into my NAS | 17:31 |
| diddledan | I now have 7TEEBEEs to play with | 17:31 |
| shauno | proofs it's not america - they wouldn't consider that a road, let alone a 2-lane road - http://i.imgur.com/ahvy6TB.jpg | 17:32 |
| diddledan | no wonder the post office doesn't believe you exist | 17:33 |
| daftykins | crikey that's a main road :P | 17:34 |
| diddledan | lol | 17:34 |
| daftykins | can get two horse and carts going opposite ways down that easy ;) | 17:34 |
| diddledan | clickity clack over the bridge. and out pops the troll and tries to eat it. | 17:35 |
| diddledan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Billy_Goats_Gruff | 17:36 |
| shauno | we actually have carts here :/ well, they call them 'traps' | 17:37 |
| shauno | had a friend over from slovakia for the week .. she was quite surprised to see them around and about town | 17:38 |
| shauno | also surprised to see people park their houses on random bits of commanage | 17:39 |
| daftykins | :D | 17:39 |
| shauno | got me thinking, it kinda says something when a slovakian thinks your city is "cute but kinda backwards" | 17:39 |
| daftykins | big alarm bells start sounding, then you know you have to hit the pub yep | 17:39 |
| daftykins | but these city folk know not what they see ;) | 17:40 |
| shauno | lol .. well this is ireland's 3rd biggest city :) | 17:40 |
| diddledan | I like that they actually admit that they're "traps" | 17:40 |
| shauno | (or 4th .. galway and limerick seem to have some kind of dispute over that) | 17:40 |
| diddledan | www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA | 17:41 |
| daftykins | fine Irish fellow there | 17:41 |
| diddledan | he may have been in the sunbed a bit too long - he looks like a lobster now | 17:45 |
| shauno | well, this will be fun. I have to knock up a new front panel for something, but the only ruler I can find is old & snapped. so I have about 7cm to work with | 17:45 |
| diddledan | 3inches ought to be enough for anyone | 17:45 |
| diddledan | or is that 640KB? | 17:46 |
| daftykins | i do loathe those ancient and out of context quotes | 17:46 |
| daftykins | sounds a bit too much like newbies going "hur hur, things change as time passes" | 17:46 |
| daftykins | http://wccftech.com/intels-6th-generation-skylake-s-processor-lineup-leaked-core-i7-6700k-leads-pack-10-skus-detailed-samples-spotted/ | 17:46 |
| daftykins | got linked to this earlier 0o | 17:46 |
| daftykins | 4GHz at last | 17:47 |
| diddledan | I thought intel believed that 4GHz was a myth | 17:47 |
| shauno | picked this up - http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141361319227 there seems to be 1001 people selling it, and no-one giving a proper set of dimensions :( | 17:48 |
| penguin42 | sigh - I want more cores, give me 8 core, 3.5GHz and I'll be happy | 17:48 |
| daftykins | isn't that what Haswell-E is, penguin42 ? logical cores anyway | 17:48 |
| diddledan | shauno: doesn't this count: External dimension: width=220mm Height=52mm depth = 226mm? | 17:49 |
| shauno | it's not really enough .. I need to know what screws go in the front, and how far from the corners they are | 17:49 |
| penguin42 | daftykins: Haswell-E is I think 6 core, so getting there - but still - come on! | 17:49 |
| penguin42 | daftykins: I think they're upto 15 core in Xeon | 17:49 |
| diddledan | penguin42: you want 8 full cores or 4 with hypernuts? | 17:50 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: I want my full 8 full cores, none of this hypernuts | 17:50 |
| daftykins | haha | 17:50 |
| diddledan | so you want 16 hyperspaces? | 17:50 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: I've got a 5 year old 4 core 2.8GHz i7 here - why bother upgrading? Sure it'll be a bit faster clock/clock - but not vastly | 17:51 |
| diddledan | I've got an AMD 8core | 17:51 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: Meh, 16 hypernuts would be nice, but it's the cores I really want | 17:51 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: No, you've got an AMD 4 core with their equivalent of HT | 17:51 |
| daftykins | i don't think i'd buy AMD. | 17:51 |
| diddledan | penguin42: it's not the same as FTL | 17:51 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: They share chunks between their cores, they're not really 8 independent cores | 17:51 |
| diddledan | penguin42: it's only the Integer unit that's shared | 17:52 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: Other way, I think it's only the fp unit that's shared | 17:52 |
| diddledan | the actual guts is all independant | 17:52 |
| penguin42 | still, I want 8 real independent cores | 17:52 |
| diddledan | it can drive non arithmetic stuff at 8 independance | 17:52 |
| penguin42 | true, I'd rather have 16 cores that are independent, but I'll settle with 8 | 17:53 |
| penguin42 | maybe I'd even have a broken 16 core with say 13 cores | 17:53 |
| daftykins | heh | 17:53 |
| daftykins | fail-binned | 17:53 |
| penguin42 | yeh, give me 13 cores, I'll be happy | 17:54 |
| * penguin42 uses a machine with 2x6 cores as one of his dev boxes at work; very nice | 17:54 | |
| penguin42 | but I'm just bored with Intel not pulling their fingers out for years | 17:55 |
| shauno | did those omgcores arm boxes ever happen? | 17:55 |
| penguin42 | shauno: They apparently exist but I can't find any to buy - the Cavium ThunderX | 17:55 |
| diddledan | shauno: the orangebox? | 17:55 |
| daftykins | why should intel work when AMD suck so hard :( | 17:55 |
| shauno | nah, I think the orangebox was a bunch of mini intels shoved in one chassis | 17:55 |
| diddledan | shauno: I think canonical moved away from arm for those replacing them with intels | 17:56 |
| penguin42 | daftykins: Yeh exactly | 17:56 |
| penguin42 | daftykins: The problem is Intel just have a very very sharp pin on their chip making equipment, and until AMDs fabs catch up they don't stand much of a chance | 17:56 |
| daftykins | well that and they don't have fabs :> | 17:56 |
| daftykins | their designs haven't done too well for a while now too | 17:57 |
| daftykins | i'd love them to come back (AMD) it'd be great to have true competition again | 17:57 |
| directhex_ | AMD no longer have any dazzle | 17:57 |
| daftykins | ok i've gotta head out, ttfn \o | 17:57 |
| directhex_ | when was the last time they competed? | 17:57 |
| daftykins | probably Athlon64 time | 17:57 |
| directhex_ | athlon fx! | 17:57 |
| penguin42 | daftykins: oh yeh, they sold them off to Global foundaries I think? | 17:57 |
| diddledan | directhex_: back in the 90s they were topdog with the k6-2 | 17:57 |
| directhex_ | i had a duron once | 17:58 |
| directhex_ | and athlon64 | 17:58 |
| daftykins | Athlon XP mobile was where it was at ;) | 17:58 |
| shauno | my amd 486 was smoking. 120MHz 486. | 17:58 |
| * penguin42 had a dual Athlon at one point | 17:58 | |
| penguin42 | Athlon MP | 17:58 |
| directhex_ | i7 is fine for me | 17:58 |
| diddledan | I think they stopped being truly competitive when they no-longer used an "intel equivalence value" in their marketing | 17:58 |
| directhex_ | i think it was the APU days | 17:59 |
| directhex_ | i lost track totally of their sockets, they had like 3 different sockets on the go at once, mostly differentiated by whether the onboard gfx was dire or merely bad | 18:00 |
| directhex_ | i still don't understand amd sockets | 18:00 |
| diddledan | the AM sockets seem to be backward compatible? | 18:01 |
| diddledan | e.g. I believe AM3+ can run a processor designed for AM3 or AM2 | 18:01 |
| directhex_ | socket am1, fm2, fm2+, and am3+, for desktops | 18:01 |
| diddledan | (the + is important for omgcores apparently?) | 18:01 |
| directhex_ | all the motherboards are from 2011 too | 18:01 |
| diddledan | yeah they haven't released a new chipset in forever | 18:02 |
| directhex_ | and their top-end cpu will burn a hole through your floor. 220W! | 18:02 |
| diddledan | all the recent mobos have been rehashes of existing ones with an efi instead of bios | 18:02 |
| diddledan | bashrc: you enjoying the yoyo experience? | 18:17 |
| daftykins | must be the BT effect :D | 20:01 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: They need EFI/GPT partitions to do big disks | 20:04 |
| daftykins | AMD chipsets went pretty bad for a while | 20:10 |
| shauno | I gave up on amd when Apple declared Intel the one true saviour (for now) | 20:14 |
| shauno | which would be funnier if it wasn't true. | 20:14 |
| ali1234 | i was looking at CPUs the other day and it looks like the most expensive AMD CPU is the same price as the cheapest Intel CPU | 20:16 |
| ali1234 | at around £250 | 20:16 |
| penguin42 | they have to to get the performance close | 20:16 |
| daftykins | surely that's not a cheapest | 20:16 |
| penguin42 | no, you can get Intel for about £40 | 20:17 |
| directhex_ | you can get a socket-1150 intel for £33.70 delivered | 20:18 |
| directhex_ | dual core 2.4ghz | 20:18 |
| ali1234 | celeron, yes | 20:18 |
| ali1234 | i only looked at quad core cpus | 20:18 |
| daftykins | i don't buy anything below an i3 :> | 20:19 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Actually, you're not trying on the AMDs - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-3rd-gen-opteron-6380-cpu-abu-dhabi-16-core-s-g34-%28lga-1944%29-25ghz-8mb-x-2-l3-cache-115w-without- | 20:19 |
| ali1234 | and it was around £150 | 20:19 |
| ali1234 | yeah i didn't look at opteron/xeon either | 20:19 |
| * penguin42 bets that's 2 chips in one package | 20:19 | |
| daftykins | save on the heating next winter! | 20:20 |
| directhex_ | 115W is low for AMD | 20:20 |
| directhex_ | they have 220W chips | 20:20 |
| ali1234 | the cheapest haswell i5 is about the same price as the most expensive amd fx | 20:21 |
| daftykins | an FX line is still going? crikey | 20:21 |
| ali1234 | well, what is AMDs CPU for the high end consumer these days? | 20:22 |
| daftykins | i don't have a clue of their lineup at all since i don't tend to consider them even worthy of checking | 20:22 |
| ali1234 | AMD A? | 20:22 |
| directhex_ | they don't have one | 20:23 |
| directhex_ | they literally don't make high end consumer chips. the highest end they ever made is still the fx 9590, which is old | 20:23 |
| directhex_ | http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-9590 | 20:23 |
| directhex_ | but you need to add the cost of a liquid cooling system to the amd | 20:24 |
| directhex_ | whereas the i5 haswell comes with a functional cooler | 20:26 |
| directhex_ | since it's 84W vs 220W | 20:26 |
| daftykins | :S | 20:26 |
| directhex_ | and you *officially* can't run the 9590 off air, according to amd (results may vary in real life) | 20:26 |
| directhex_ | they sell a rebranded asetek AIO water cooler w/ 120mm radiator, the "amd fx-series liquid cooling system" | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | how much is it? | 20:27 |
| directhex_ | struggling to find it in the UK. equivalents are about 40-45 quid | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | the chip is £170 less than the intel chip in your comparison | 20:28 |
| directhex_ | Intel Core i5 4440 Processor Haswell is £144, AMD FX 9590 Processor - 8 Core is £181 | 20:29 |
| directhex_ | that's top of the range amd vs cheapest quadcore intel, as requested | 20:29 |
| directhex_ | so add a £40 cooler to that and it's £220 vs £144 | 20:29 |
| directhex_ | we could compare a £144 amd? or a £220 intel? what would you prefer? | 20:30 |
| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| ali1234 | how about FX 8370E (95W - £142) vs the £144 haswell? | 20:31 |
| directhex_ | http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-8370E says ~identical in the aggregate. intel better at single core, amd better at threaded (4 core vs 8 core) | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | figures | 20:32 |
| directhex_ | this is sorta AMD's problem. i had £300 to spend on a processor. amd don't make a processor to appeal to me. the intel i bought wipes the floor with the best amd on the market, in every measure except maybe "value for money" | 20:35 |
| ali1234 | yeah, i agree, that's kinda my point | 20:35 |
| ali1234 | AMD FX run from £60 - £180, intel i5 to i7 runs from £140 to £900 | 20:36 |
| directhex_ | only 900? | 20:37 |
| ali1234 | 839 seems to be the most expensive before you get to xeons | 20:37 |
| directhex_ | bargain! should have got one of those | 20:38 |
| directhex_ | ;) | 20:38 |
| directhex_ | witcher 2 seems okay on ultra graphics settings on linux. that's good. | 20:38 |
| daftykins | did you solve your 15.04 Bioshock issues? | 20:42 |
| directhex_ | not yet | 20:42 |
| ali1234 | who else other than asus makes motherboards with all 4-pin fan connectors? | 20:51 |
| ali1234 | seems like everyone else just has it for the CPU fan and all the others scream | 20:52 |
| directhex_ | hm. not something i've actively paid attention to | 20:57 |
| directhex_ | according to my motherboard manual, it's got 5 4-pin fan headers | 20:57 |
| directhex_ | and no 3-pin | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | directhex_: and what make is it? | 21:07 |
| directhex_ | msi | 21:07 |
| ali1234 | i see. i was actually looking at them... my GPU is MSI and it's very quiet | 21:07 |
| directhex_ | i wanted out-of-the-box linux support. | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | motherboard is ASUS and the CPU bracket lug snapped off, causing the heatsink to fall off while in operation :( | 21:08 |
| directhex_ | not many motherboards advertise that | 21:08 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Ouch | 21:09 |
| ali1234 | out of the box linux support is also good of course... my brother got a new ASUS mobo recently and virtually nothing on it works in linux, not even the ethernet and sata works properly | 21:09 |
| directhex_ | ali1234: my cooler's bolted to a metal backplate, thankfully :x | 21:09 |
| ali1234 | although to be fair it was a year ago | 21:10 |
| directhex_ | ali1234: that's what i wanted to avoid | 21:10 |
| directhex_ | ali1234: killernic. supported out of the box on ubuntu, but not windows 10 :D | 21:10 |
| ali1234 | silly name though. is it actually good? | 21:10 |
| directhex_ | pfft | 21:11 |
| directhex_ | it's just a nic, tbh. these days, anyway | 21:11 |
| directhex_ | back in the day, the killernic was a $300 (!) network card, for teh gamerz | 21:11 |
| directhex_ | it sold itself as having tcp/ip offloading, for improved game performance. you could also run apps on its embedded cpu, e.g. torrent client running on the nic | 21:12 |
| directhex_ | nowadays it's just a fancy windows driver on top of a conventional firmwareless atheros gigabit chip | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | ah okay | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | i think i prefer it to be the latter, to be honest | 21:12 |
| directhex_ | well, it is. the 163mb gui crap doesn't run on windows 10, so even on windows i'm using the basic ethernet driver for it | 21:13 |
| directhex_ | description: Qualcomm Atheros(R) AR816x/AR817x PCI-E Ethernet Network Driver | 21:13 |
| daftykins | had someone just yesterday with some kind of alienware laptop, atheros killer NIC was fine but the killer wireless isn't supported by Linux yet | 21:14 |
| directhex_ | 08:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Killer E220x Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 13) | 21:15 |
| directhex_ | ooh, some unknown pci ids. /me submits | 21:15 |
| daftykins | killer wireless was meant to be waiting on the conversion of firmware from Windows drivers for ath10k | 21:18 |
| directhex_ | submitted 2 new usb controllers to lspci | 21:25 |
| directhex_ | erk forghot to unplug car | 21:26 |
| daftykins | heh, had to double take that sentence | 21:29 |
| directhex_ | there we go | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | one of my neighbours has a car charger thing on the front of his house now | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | i did wonder how secure that was | 21:31 |
| directhex_ | yeah, i'm waiting on the installer to get one fitted | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | can anyone just steal electricity from them? | 21:31 |
| directhex_ | ali1234: depends on which of the 3 vendors made it | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | based on google images it looks like a ford focus one | 21:32 |
| directhex_ | that's dumb, those aren't subsidized | 21:32 |
| ali1234 | subsidized? | 21:32 |
| directhex_ | podpoint, rolec and chargemaster are the 3 main vendors | 21:32 |
| directhex_ | the govt pays 70% of the costs of getting an ev charger fitted, to a £900 limit | 21:33 |
| directhex_ | so you pay £200 or less | 21:33 |
| directhex_ | the points alone are about £450 without fitting | 21:33 |
| ali1234 | well, i haven't seen it up close, and they all look fairly similar | 21:33 |
| directhex_ | at any rate, rolec have a really cheapy little lock. chargemaster have an isolator switch activated via a key. i honestly don't know for podpoint | 21:35 |
| directhex_ | so you could steal electricity relatively easily... if you have something with a type 2 mennekes socket on it | 21:36 |
| directhex_ | or type 1 j1772 | 21:36 |
| ali1234 | like .. an electric car | 21:36 |
| directhex_ | yes! | 21:36 |
| shauno | I think we make some car chargers too, oddly enough. | 21:36 |
| directhex_ | HAH! | 21:37 |
| directhex_ | pod point has... a padlock hole on the plug | 21:37 |
| directhex_ | you can padlock it to its stand | 21:37 |
| shauno | seems like something of an afterthought | 21:38 |
| ali1234 | i would just have an on/off switch inside the building, is that a typical thing that you get when it is installed? | 21:38 |
| directhex_ | ali1234: well, as the home owner, you get control over the circuit breaker | 21:40 |
| directhex_ | so you could just flip its circuit in your box | 21:40 |
| ali1234 | that's not exactly convenient though. i was thinking more like the oven on/off switch that you have to have, by law... | 21:41 |
| directhex_ | no, that's not a "thing" | 21:41 |
| daftykins | i'm sure an electrician could come up with an idea | 21:43 |
| directhex_ | daftykins: it's a threading issue! | 22:26 |
| directhex_ | forced single-processor execution & bioshock runs | 22:26 |
| daftykins | that's funky 0o | 22:27 |
| ball | Hmm... I should probably have said "no" when Ubuntu asked me whether to upgrade. | 22:28 |
| daftykins | ball: :D | 22:29 |
| directhex_ | daftykins: i guess it's not "broken on 15.04", it's "broken on 6-core hyperthreaded processors" | 22:31 |
| daftykins | hmm i wonder, would disabling HT change much? | 22:32 |
| daftykins | i'm sure i read something about some modern games hating it at times | 22:32 |
| ali1234 | or just set the core affinity? | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | oh you already did that. carry on | 22:33 |
| directhex_ | 12 threads of obscene power, only execute on one! | 22:36 |
| directhex_ | getting that fixed would be nice | 22:37 |
| daftykins | only if you're a fan of that game ;) | 22:37 |
| * daftykins wasn't | 22:37 | |
| penguin42 | directhex_: I think processors with non-power of 2 cores freaked out simple algorithms | 22:37 |
| directhex_ | penguin42: well, it could be that, i have NPOT cores! | 22:38 |
| penguin42 | directhex_: Can you show me your /proc/cpuinfo ? | 22:44 |
| directhex_ | http://paste.ubuntu.com/10903828/ | 22:45 |
| penguin42 | directhex_: OK, so 0..5 are one set of threads, 6..11 are the other set | 22:46 |
| penguin42 | pretty much like my 4 core is 0..3,4..7 | 22:47 |
| directhex_ | seems that way | 22:47 |
| daftykins | keep seeing this penguin1263 and thinking "that's not our penguin!" | 23:23 |
| penguin42 | where is that penguin? | 23:31 |
| daftykins | #ubuntu | 23:31 |
| penguin42 | ah | 23:31 |
| daftykins | :D | 23:32 |
| daftykins | imposterrrr! | 23:32 |
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