[00:09]  * zmoylan-pi tests if it was the iron enriched corn by preparing the giant acme magnet...
[00:09]  * daftykins slides along the ground toward zmoylan-pi 
[00:09] <zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for free shipping :-P
[00:10]  * zmoylan-pi reverses the polarity at the thought of daftykins approaching...
[00:10] <daftykins> ;_;
[00:11]  * zmoylan-pi puts out free bagels to console daftykins 
[00:13] <daftykins> and treats for my cat? she was in my arms at the time
[00:14] <zmoylan-pi> she's a cat, she'll want some of whatever you're eating right up to the point of eating it.
[00:15] <daftykins> :>
[00:16] <penguin42> perhaps she'll eat the holes
[00:18] <zmoylan-pi> of course some cats love cheese
[00:18] <daftykins> o0
[00:19] <daftykins> she decorated the floor around me whilst i was poised on the tip of my sofa playing a game online with friends, Friday night
[00:19] <daftykins> i could only reach to push her off the rug at least :P
[00:19] <zmoylan-pi> and one of our cats adored porridge
[00:19] <zmoylan-pi> warm milky porridge
[00:25] <zmoylan-pi> perfect brekkie before a long morning snooze
[00:28] <penguin42> which lasts until lunch
[00:34] <zmoylan-pi> then a light lunch preceding the afternoon snooze
[00:40] <penguin42> which lasts until dinner
[00:41] <zmoylan-pi> or tea time depending on wether you're working class/middle class
[00:42] <zmoylan-pi> then if it's winter camping out to sleep as close to fireplace as is possible
[00:43] <penguin42> yep, my type of life
[00:44] <zmoylan-pi> i swear if the fireplace we had didn't have a glass door on the front she'd have climbed in sometimes
[00:45] <zmoylan-pi> she sat so close that her nose had a tiny scar from touching the glass when she started to doze off
[00:45] <penguin42> haha
[00:46] <daftykins> :D d'aww
[00:46] <zmoylan-pi> then after her fur got too hot to touch she'd fall asleep under sofa till she cooled down
[00:46] <zmoylan-pi> she was basically a huge heat sink in the house... :-)
[00:47] <daftykins> gah just missed a photo op of my cat using the TV remotes as a pillow
[00:47] <daftykins> :D
[06:37] <Knightwise> morning everyone
[08:36] <TheProphet[S]> Good morning all
[08:37] <TheProphet[S]> Anyone can help me understand why I have to boot in recovery mode and then resume normal boot to be able to start X in Ubuntu 15.04? If I start without the recovery step the screen remains blank
[08:38] <TheProphet[S]> Can anyone* and please*
[08:43] <TheProphet[S]> I guess it's a bit early on a Sunday to start asking that sort of question
[09:22] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[11:31] <TheProphet[S]> Testing Bioshock infinite on 15.04 after update, if I manage to start the system
[11:32] <TheProphet[S]> It worked at first, although I'm not sure how it managed to send the output onto the hdmi even though analogue was selected
[11:32] <TheProphet[S]> I then quit the game and fiddled with the sound settings, restarted the game and Pc froze
[11:34] <TheProphet[S]> After a hard reboot video output is not visible, I can reboot by going to a tty, I don't see anything though, I just remember the sequence
[11:37] <TheProphet[S]> Then I boot into recovery mode, select resume normal boot and video starts like nothing ever happened. Is there a logical explanation to this?
[11:37] <TheProphet[S]> If I select normal boot procedure from Grub I just get a black screen
[11:39] <TheProphet[S]> Perhaps logic died with Leonard Nimoy
[11:40] <TheProphet[S]> Anyways someone yesterday asked if Bioshock infinite worked after 15.04 update, the answer is yes
[11:41] <TheProphet[S]> Although it freezes it seems
[11:42] <brobostigon> ST4 5* 13:15
[11:46] <TheProphet[S]> After a few seconds of game play,
[11:47] <TheProphet[S]> It froze and I had to reboot
[12:23] <penguin42> Jessie seems to work
[12:27] <ali1234> in general or for bioshock infinite?
[12:30] <penguin42> generally
[12:30] <ali1234> i just saw someone say that NFS mounts don't work properly
[12:30] <penguin42> perfectly normal behaviour for NFS
[12:31] <ali1234> but that was on raspberry pi so who knows what hacked up version they are using
[12:31] <ali1234> well DBTS says it is supposed to be fixed
[12:31] <ali1234> or are you just making a joke about NFS being rubbish?
[12:31] <penguin42> well, it's not rubbish, but it does seem to need some TLC to keep it happy
[12:32] <ali1234> this appears to specifically be the issue where systemd can't mount remote filesystems from fstab
[12:33] <penguin42> ah, using systemd automount or explicit mounts?
[12:33] <ali1234> having NFS mounts in /etc/fstab which work fine, until you upgrade to jessie, and then they don't
[12:33] <penguin42> ah
[12:34] <ali1234> but as i said, raspi, so it's probably hacked up
[12:34] <shauno> I haven't touched jessie yet.  I'm a little paranoid about migrating non-systemd boxes to systemd when I can't physically reach them to mop up
[12:34] <ali1234> i can't decide whether to go 15.04 or jessie
[12:34] <ali1234> i'm on 14.04 at the moment
[12:34] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure what the debian story is for Pi, it might be supported?
[12:35] <ali1234> if i go 15.04 i'm stuck on the upgrade train until the next LTS
[12:35] <shauno> I suspect my task for the next few days is going to be duping them into VMs so I can play in a sandpit
[12:36] <ali1234> penguin42: the debian story is "use raspbian" - which is basically a full rebuild of everything with a different arch
[12:37] <ali1234> you can use debian armel i think, if you don't care it's not optimized
[12:37] <penguin42> ali1234: nod, I suspect the Pi2 is less hastle because it's a newer CPU, but I've not followed the Pi much
[12:37] <ali1234> right, the pi2 can run armhf so debian or ubuntu properly optimized
[12:38] <ali1234> the pi1 is stuck with debian's lowest common denominator and cannot run ubuntu at all. hence raspbian
[12:39] <ali1234> however they all have the same crazy bootloader stuff which requires non-trivial modification to the OS
[12:39] <penguin42> nod
[12:41] <penguin42> yeh but that stuff is fairly isolated; most of the userland packages after bootsetup should be OK
[12:42] <shauno> I think that meshes with what I tend to see - people boot raspbian, and then add jessie sources
[12:44] <penguin42> generally on ARM stuff, once you get a fairly modern kernel running you can just slap your favorite userspace in; debootstrap being the easiest thing to do
[12:45] <ali1234> but generally on ARM stuff you are tied to an ancient BSP which makes that impossible
[12:47] <penguin42> yeh, it depends how new your userspace wants; pre systemd you could get away with a fairly old kernel
[13:40] <bashrc> ali1234: whether you go to jessie or 15.04 depends on whether you need recent package versions and don't mind upgrading every 6 months. I use Debian on the server and have been on Jessie for quite a while
[13:41] <ali1234> i don't want to upgrade every six months
[13:41] <ali1234> i want nvidia binary driver to work easily and be able to play games on steam
[13:41] <bashrc> then I'd stick with debian or ubuntu LTS
[13:41] <ali1234> yes, which?
[13:42] <bashrc> depends which you prefer. Is this for desktop or server?
[13:42] <ali1234> desktop
[13:42] <bashrc> with desktop I'd go for ubuntu LTS
[13:42] <ali1234> i prefer ubuntu but i need newer packages than 14.04 has
[13:42] <bashrc> then you have the stability of an LTS, put also with the option to use PPAs
[13:43] <ali1234> i don't care about stability
[13:43] <ali1234> i just don't want to upgrade all the time
[13:43] <ali1234> by upgrade i mean distro upgrade
[13:44] <bashrc> if you really don't care about stability then a rolling release like Arch might be the thing. I don't have any experience on that though
[13:45] <ali1234> is there a rolling release distro that doesn't break every day worse than debian unstable?
[13:45] <ali1234> arch is not it
[13:45] <ali1234> rolling release appears to be an excuse not to ever test releases
[13:46] <bashrc> from my limited experience of rolling releases I think breakages are common. So going with an ubuntu LTS would seem to fit the requirements
[13:46] <bashrc> then if you need very recent packages you can probably just use a PPA
[13:46] <ali1234> yes, except there won't be another one of those for 12 months
[13:46] <ali1234> the newer packages i need include systemd
[13:47] <bashrc> ah, currently I don't think the ubuntu LTS uses systemd, although it might be possible to install it
[13:47] <ali1234> it doesn't and it isn't
[13:47] <ali1234> let me boil it right down to basics
[13:48] <ali1234> i want systemd, nvidia driver, steam, recent xorg, xfce 4.12 all working out of the box, and two years support
[13:48] <ali1234> also the moon on a stick
[13:48]  * DJones joking point ali1234 to ##windows :)
[13:49] <DJones> How does steamos deal with that
[13:49] <bashrc> I don't know what xfce version jessie uses, but that requirements list sounds in jessie territory
[13:49] <ali1234> well it doesn't have xfce 4.12 that's for sure
[13:50] <ali1234> jessie has xfce 4.10 still, but that i can deal with
[13:50] <ali1234> bigger issue is does nvidia driver work properly yet with a decently new version?
[13:50] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm, the current LTS should get the new kernel/X in 6 months if they follow the previous pattern of hardware support
[13:50] <ali1234> last time i tried debian it was a year behind and you had to install it manually
[13:50] <ali1234> penguin42: but not systemd
[13:51] <ali1234> i don't care about kernel at all ...
[13:51] <ali1234> X is meh... as long as it has present
[13:51] <penguin42> ali1234: Well, fedora 22 gives you latest kernel, systemd, and X - but not the 2 year support
[13:52] <ali1234> also RPM is horrible
[13:52] <penguin42> yeh, I want to see what snappy is like
[13:53] <ali1234> last time i tried an rpm distro it was impossible to build any of the packages from source without exactly duplicating the build server
[13:53] <penguin42> that's actually not that hard, I've got the hang of rpmbuild
[13:54] <bashrc> I wrote a packaging system called packagemonkey which does rpm
[13:55] <ali1234> oh sure, rpmbuild. should have worked, it just didn't
[13:56] <ali1234> does it still try to build everything in hardcoded paths under your home directory that you have to rm -rf between every package to stop them conflicting?
[13:56] <bashrc> probably, but my packaging system handles all that drudge work
[13:57] <ali1234> rpm already has a tool that does that - it makes a chroot, installs all dependencies in it, then builds the package with rpmbuild
[13:57] <diddledan> howdo
[13:57] <penguin42> ali1234: almost, it's not quite hard coded but you can change it in a dot file; on one machine I have the %_topdir changed to build it elsewhere
[13:57] <ali1234> and it didn't work properly either
[13:58] <ali1234> well i think it goes without saying that rpm is off the table
[13:58] <ali1234> the question is do i stay on 14.04, install 15.04, or jessie?
[13:59] <bashrc> if you need systemd then it's either 15.04 or jessie
[13:59] <ali1234> yeah
[13:59] <bashrc> 15.04 might give you a newer xfce
[13:59] <penguin42> ali1234: jessie isn't going to get you latest
[13:59] <ali1234>  don't need latest, just newer than 14.04
[14:00] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried installing 14.04.2 - it will give you a different kernel/X than a 14.04 install unless you change the hardware support packages
[14:00] <ali1234> i don't want a newer kernel
[14:01] <penguin42> so what is it you want that's newer?
[14:01] <ali1234> systemd
[14:01] <penguin42> ah
[14:01] <penguin42> then you need 15.04
[14:01] <ali1234> or jessie, as we have established :)
[14:03] <ali1234> i think it has to be 15.04 really
[14:03] <ali1234> i bet debian doesn't have all the ubuntu gnome patches that make gnome software not suck on all other desktops
[14:03] <penguin42> although debian's gnome isn't that new, so maybe it's less of a problem?
[14:04] <ali1234> it's been a problem since at least 3.12
[14:04] <penguin42> ah ok
[14:05] <bashrc> I think jessie uses gnome 3.14
[14:05] <ali1234> it does
[14:05] <penguin42> yeh
[14:10] <penguin42> ali1234: which desktop do you use and which gnome apps do you use with it?
[14:10] <ali1234> xfce and the pdf viewer
[14:11] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I've switched to xfce,  but I tend to use KDE's pdf viewer, okular
[14:12] <ali1234> i've got a question
[14:12] <ali1234> why is it when you see screenshots of KDE software, they never ever use oxygen, and always use that theme that looks like gtk?
[14:13] <ali1234> https://okular.kde.org/images/screenies/okular-backend-pdf-1.png
[14:13] <penguin42> because oxygen is really really screwed up ?
[14:13] <ali1234> right. so why was it the default for so long?
[14:14] <penguin42> well it's quite nice look, but the oxygen-gtk renderer just causes so many random bugs
[14:14] <ali1234> oxygen looks awful
[14:14] <penguin42> ok ok, it's a theme
[14:14] <ali1234> it makes everything look slapped together
[14:15] <ali1234> it looks awful for entirely objective reasons
[14:15]  * penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce
[14:15] <ali1234> which can't be fixed due to the way Qt works
[14:15] <ali1234> what do you mean by "compact"?
[14:16] <penguin42> ali1234: I find the 'tabs' and buttons tend to use a lot of vertical space
[14:16] <penguin42> ali1234: It annoys me most on terminals, where the tab switching at the bottom takes a couple of rows space up
[14:17] <ali1234> then don't use tabs? use separate windows?
[14:18]  * penguin42 likes tabs
[14:18] <ali1234> there's this thing called a taskbar where every window is a tab
[14:18] <ali1234> and you can put it anywhere on the screen that you want. imagine that!
[14:18]  * penguin42 scatters terminals everywhere each with a few tabs in
[14:18]  * penguin42 would just like his tabs to be a little less podgie
[14:18] <ali1234> what terminal?
[14:19] <penguin42> ali1234: I think it's the same on both terminator and xfce-terminal
[14:19] <ali1234> yeah it is
[14:19] <ali1234> oh, have you set "force dpi" to 96 dpi?
[14:20] <ali1234> that is essential
[14:20] <penguin42> yeh I'm pretty sure I've got that
[14:20] <ali1234> and set font size to 11 pt?
[14:23] <penguin42> see   http://imagebin.ca/v/1zfYH9sBBh5a
[14:23] <ali1234> what have you done...
[14:23] <penguin42> haha
[14:23] <ali1234> the tabs are the only thing in that picture that is the correct size
[14:24] <penguin42> it's microcurve title bar theme, so that's nice and small, I've got a nice small font in the terminal - and these *HUGE* tabs
[14:25] <ali1234> just set the system font to like 7 pt
[14:25] <penguin42> but there seems to be so much padding around the text
[14:25] <ali1234> yes, because without that it looks awful
[14:25] <penguin42> (Default font is Sans 9)
[14:25] <ali1234> without that padding it will look like KDE
[14:26] <ali1234> where everything is squashed together and unreadable
[14:26] <penguin42> well, I would like it a bit more squashed, like the title
[14:26] <penguin42> it's readable but with no extra space
[14:26] <ali1234> window borders are just bitmaps in xfwm
[14:27] <ali1234> you will have to hack the gtk theme to get less padding on elements
[14:27] <ali1234> it is written in css for gtk3 and something else for gtk2
[14:27] <penguin42> yeh, as I say, (15:15:18) ***penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce
[14:27] <ali1234> and the css version breaks with every gtk release and someone has to spend several hours fixing it
[14:28] <ali1234> gtk themes pretty much don't exist any more because of this
[14:28] <penguin42> a sad state of affairs
[14:28] <ali1234> xfce has dropped all themes except for greybird and numix
[14:28] <penguin42> brb
[14:31] <ali1234> i would switch to KDE if they made a decent theme
[14:31] <ali1234> the new thing unfortunately does not seem to have fixed any of the alignment issues
[14:32] <ali1234> they did at least get rid of the gradients and boxes everywhere though, so that's something
[14:33] <ali1234> maybe i should make a kde theme
[14:35] <penguin42> ali1234: I've just switched to xfce from KDE, I can't stand KDE5
[14:36] <ali1234> why? it's just the same thing with a much better theme
[14:37] <ali1234> i would probably have to nuke the plasma trash though, and just run xfce panel or something
[14:38] <penguin42> KDE without plasma? Sounds an odd thing to do
[14:39] <diddledan> kde3 was where it was at
[14:39] <diddledan> I liked kde3
[14:39] <ali1234> i think the pdf viewer might be the only app i use which is part of a "desktop environment"
[14:39] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh
[14:40] <diddledan> the switch between kde3 and 4 was jarring
[14:40] <penguin42> diddledan: I went KDE3->Gnome (2?)->KDE4 (after about 4 years with Gnome2)
[14:40] <diddledan> like "wtf did you do?!"
[14:40] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, KDE5 is like that now
[14:40] <ali1234> http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/094/9/b/kde_5_mockup_2_0_by_linix_arts-d7cyuh7.png
[14:40] <diddledan> it was because of kde4 that I went ubuntu
[14:40] <ali1234> this is hilarious
[14:41] <ali1234> arn't mock ups supposed to look *good*?
[14:41] <ali1234> at least they fixed the clock
[14:41] <diddledan> the colours in that are evil
[14:42] <diddledan> green "spotify" followedby "now playing" in white?!
[14:42] <ali1234> now this, this looks good: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CBOhh_ywz1c/VH2TB-RMgKI/AAAAAAAAJyg/ZwiOjKgD-uo/s1600/Manjaro%2B0.8.11.jpg
[14:42] <diddledan> not just green but luminous green
[14:42] <ali1234> i'm not even sure if that is KDE
[14:43] <diddledan> it really annoys me that anything running on kde MUST have a badly placed K in the name
[14:44] <diddledan> oKular
[14:44] <ali1234> i don't mind that
[14:44] <diddledan> and that example with "piKture"
[14:45] <diddledan> and "Kontrol Panel" <-- why can't they call that "K Control Panel"?
[14:46] <ali1234> oh wow that manjaro screenshot is xfce
[14:46] <ali1234> i knew it was too good to be true
[16:55] <daftykins> just been to that castle mountain bikin' event
[16:55] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/15m8ehwwbwjo6nn/AACwtdSjK7Nc0HdIyNmedjx6a?dl=0
[17:13] <shauno> you appear to have borrowed our weather
[17:14] <shauno> (no rush returning it btw, I'm getting kinda used to this bright light)
[17:17] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[17:17] <daftykins> foggy this morn, windy and 10 deg C this afty
[17:21] <shauno> we've had pretty much continuous sun.  a bit grayer today, but still totally passable.
[17:21] <shauno> went up to dublin yesterday, got soaked to the skin, and promptly left again
[17:23] <diddledan> shauno: you're lying
[17:23] <diddledan> shauno: ireland doesn't have sun!
[17:23] <shauno> norly!
[17:23] <diddledan> serials?
[17:24] <penguin42> shauno: the sun seems to be over here today
[17:27] <shauno> http://i.imgur.com/APkPbeF.jpg  (just to add further shock, I've even been outside)
[17:29] <diddledan> I call shenanigans - that's america
[17:29] <shauno> lol
[17:29] <diddledan> nowai is ireland that pretty!
[17:31] <diddledan> so my masculinity extensions are installed into my NAS
[17:31] <diddledan> I now have 7TEEBEEs to play with
[17:32] <shauno> proofs it's not america - they wouldn't consider that a road, let alone a 2-lane road - http://i.imgur.com/ahvy6TB.jpg
[17:33] <diddledan> no wonder the post office doesn't believe you exist
[17:34] <daftykins> crikey that's a main road :P
[17:34] <diddledan> lol
[17:34] <daftykins> can get two horse and carts going opposite ways down that easy ;)
[17:35] <diddledan> clickity clack over the bridge. and out pops the troll and tries to eat it.
[17:36] <diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Billy_Goats_Gruff
[17:37] <shauno> we actually have carts here :/  well, they call them 'traps'
[17:38] <shauno> had a friend over from slovakia for the week .. she was quite surprised to see them around and about town
[17:39] <shauno> also surprised to see people park their houses on random bits of commanage
[17:39] <daftykins> :D
[17:39] <shauno> got me thinking, it kinda says something when a slovakian thinks your city is "cute but kinda backwards"
[17:39] <daftykins> big alarm bells start sounding, then you know you have to hit the pub yep
[17:40] <daftykins> but these city folk know not what they see ;)
[17:40] <shauno> lol .. well this is ireland's 3rd biggest city :)
[17:40] <diddledan> I like that they actually admit that they're "traps"
[17:40] <shauno> (or 4th .. galway and limerick seem to have some kind of dispute over that)
[17:41] <diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
[17:41] <daftykins> fine Irish fellow there
[17:45] <diddledan> he may have been in the sunbed a bit too long - he looks like a lobster now
[17:45] <shauno> well, this will be fun.  I have to knock up a new front panel for something, but the only ruler I can find is old & snapped.  so I have about 7cm to work with
[17:45] <diddledan> 3inches ought to be enough for anyone
[17:46] <diddledan> or is that 640KB?
[17:46] <daftykins> i do loathe those ancient and out of context quotes
[17:46] <daftykins> sounds a bit too much like newbies going "hur hur, things change as time passes"
[17:46] <daftykins> http://wccftech.com/intels-6th-generation-skylake-s-processor-lineup-leaked-core-i7-6700k-leads-pack-10-skus-detailed-samples-spotted/
[17:46] <daftykins> got linked to this earlier 0o
[17:47] <daftykins> 4GHz at last
[17:47] <diddledan> I thought intel believed that 4GHz was a myth
[17:48] <shauno> picked this up - http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141361319227  there seems to be 1001 people selling it, and no-one giving a proper set of dimensions :(
[17:48] <penguin42> sigh - I want more cores, give me 8 core, 3.5GHz and I'll be happy
[17:48] <daftykins> isn't that what Haswell-E is, penguin42 ? logical cores anyway
[17:49] <diddledan> shauno: doesn't this count: External dimension:  width=220mm   Height=52mm   depth = 226mm?
[17:49] <shauno> it's not really enough .. I need to know what screws go in the front, and how far from the corners they are
[17:49] <penguin42> daftykins: Haswell-E is I think 6 core, so getting there - but still - come on!
[17:49] <penguin42> daftykins: I think they're upto 15 core in Xeon
[17:50] <diddledan> penguin42: you want 8 full cores or 4 with hypernuts?
[17:50] <penguin42> diddledan: I want my full 8 full cores, none of this hypernuts
[17:50] <daftykins> haha
[17:50] <diddledan> so you want 16 hyperspaces?
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: I've got a 5 year old 4 core 2.8GHz i7 here - why bother upgrading? Sure it'll be a bit faster clock/clock - but not vastly
[17:51] <diddledan> I've got an AMD 8core
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: Meh, 16 hypernuts would be nice, but it's the cores I really want
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: No, you've got an AMD 4 core with their equivalent of HT
[17:51] <daftykins> i don't think i'd buy AMD.
[17:51] <diddledan> penguin42: it's not the same as FTL
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: They share chunks between their cores, they're not really 8 independent cores
[17:52] <diddledan> penguin42: it's only the Integer unit that's shared
[17:52] <penguin42> diddledan: Other way, I think it's only the fp unit that's shared
[17:52] <diddledan> the actual guts is all independant
[17:52] <penguin42> still, I want 8 real independent cores
[17:52] <diddledan> it can drive non arithmetic stuff at 8 independance
[17:53] <penguin42> true, I'd rather have 16 cores that are independent, but I'll settle with 8
[17:53] <penguin42> maybe I'd even have a broken 16 core with say 13 cores
[17:53] <daftykins> heh
[17:53] <daftykins> fail-binned
[17:54] <penguin42> yeh, give me 13 cores, I'll be happy
[17:54]  * penguin42 uses a machine with 2x6 cores as one of his dev boxes at work; very nice
[17:55] <penguin42> but I'm just bored with Intel not pulling their fingers out for years
[17:55] <shauno> did those omgcores arm boxes ever happen?
[17:55] <penguin42> shauno: They apparently exist but I can't find any to buy - the Cavium ThunderX
[17:55] <diddledan> shauno: the orangebox?
[17:55] <daftykins> why should intel work when AMD suck so hard :(
[17:55] <shauno> nah, I think the orangebox was a bunch of mini intels shoved in one chassis
[17:56] <diddledan> shauno: I think canonical moved away from arm for those replacing them with intels
[17:56] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh exactly
[17:56] <penguin42> daftykins: The problem is Intel just have a very very sharp pin on their chip making equipment, and until AMDs fabs catch up they don't stand much of a chance
[17:56] <daftykins> well that and they don't have fabs :>
[17:57] <daftykins> their designs haven't done too well for a while now too
[17:57] <daftykins> i'd love them to come back (AMD) it'd be great to have true competition again
[17:57] <directhex_> AMD no longer have any dazzle
[17:57] <daftykins> ok i've gotta head out, ttfn \o
[17:57] <directhex_> when was the last time they competed?
[17:57] <daftykins> probably Athlon64 time
[17:57] <directhex_> athlon fx!
[17:57] <penguin42> daftykins: oh yeh, they sold them off to Global foundaries I think?
[17:57] <diddledan> directhex_: back in the 90s they were topdog with the k6-2
[17:58] <directhex_> i had a duron once
[17:58] <directhex_> and athlon64
[17:58] <daftykins> Athlon XP mobile was where it was at ;)
[17:58] <shauno> my amd 486 was smoking.  120MHz 486.
[17:58]  * penguin42 had a dual Athlon at one point
[17:58] <penguin42> Athlon MP
[17:58] <directhex_> i7 is fine for me
[17:58] <diddledan> I think they stopped being truly competitive when they no-longer used an "intel equivalence value" in their marketing
[17:59] <directhex_> i think it was the APU days
[18:00] <directhex_> i lost track totally of their sockets, they had like 3 different sockets on the go at once, mostly differentiated by whether the onboard gfx was dire or merely bad
[18:00] <directhex_> i still don't understand amd sockets
[18:01] <diddledan> the AM sockets seem to be backward compatible?
[18:01] <diddledan> e.g. I believe AM3+ can run a processor designed for AM3 or AM2
[18:01] <directhex_> socket am1, fm2, fm2+, and am3+, for desktops
[18:01] <diddledan> (the + is important for omgcores apparently?)
[18:01] <directhex_> all the motherboards are from 2011 too
[18:02] <diddledan> yeah they haven't released a new chipset in forever
[18:02] <directhex_> and their top-end cpu will burn a hole through your floor. 220W!
[18:02] <diddledan> all the recent mobos have been rehashes of existing ones with an efi instead of bios
[18:17] <diddledan> bashrc: you enjoying the yoyo experience?
[20:01] <daftykins> must be the BT effect :D
[20:04] <penguin42> diddledan: They need EFI/GPT partitions to do big disks
[20:10] <daftykins> AMD chipsets went pretty bad for a while
[20:14] <shauno> I gave up on amd when Apple declared Intel the one true saviour (for now)
[20:14] <shauno> which would be funnier if it wasn't true.
[20:16] <ali1234> i was looking at CPUs the other day and it looks like the most expensive AMD CPU is the same price as the cheapest Intel CPU
[20:16] <ali1234> at around £250
[20:16] <penguin42> they have to to get the performance close
[20:16] <daftykins> surely that's not a cheapest
[20:17] <penguin42> no, you can get Intel for about £40
[20:18] <directhex_> you can get a socket-1150 intel for £33.70 delivered
[20:18] <directhex_> dual core 2.4ghz
[20:18] <ali1234> celeron, yes
[20:18] <ali1234> i only looked at quad core cpus
[20:19] <daftykins> i don't buy anything below an i3 :>
[20:19] <penguin42> ali1234: Actually, you're not trying on the AMDs - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-3rd-gen-opteron-6380-cpu-abu-dhabi-16-core-s-g34-%28lga-1944%29-25ghz-8mb-x-2-l3-cache-115w-without-
[20:19] <ali1234> and it was around £150
[20:19] <ali1234> yeah i didn't look at opteron/xeon either
[20:19]  * penguin42 bets that's 2 chips in one package
[20:20] <daftykins> save on the heating next winter!
[20:20] <directhex_> 115W is low for AMD
[20:20] <directhex_> they have 220W chips
[20:21] <ali1234> the cheapest haswell i5 is about the same price as the most expensive amd fx
[20:21] <daftykins> an FX line is still going? crikey
[20:22] <ali1234> well, what is AMDs CPU for the high end consumer these days?
[20:22] <daftykins> i don't have a clue of their lineup at all since i don't tend to consider them even worthy of checking
[20:22] <ali1234> AMD A?
[20:23] <directhex_> they don't have one
[20:23] <directhex_> they literally don't make high end consumer chips. the highest end they ever made is still the fx 9590, which is old
[20:23] <directhex_> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-9590
[20:24] <directhex_> but you need to add the cost of a liquid cooling system to the amd
[20:26] <directhex_> whereas the i5 haswell comes with a functional cooler
[20:26] <directhex_> since it's 84W vs 220W
[20:26] <daftykins> :S
[20:26] <directhex_> and you *officially* can't run the 9590 off air, according to amd (results may vary in real life)
[20:27] <directhex_> they sell a rebranded asetek AIO water cooler w/ 120mm radiator, the "amd fx-series liquid cooling system"
[20:27] <ali1234> how much is it?
[20:27] <directhex_> struggling to find it in the UK. equivalents are about 40-45 quid
[20:28] <ali1234> the chip is £170 less than the intel chip in your comparison
[20:29] <directhex_> Intel Core i5 4440 Processor Haswell is £144, AMD FX 9590 Processor - 8 Core is £181
[20:29] <directhex_> that's top of the range amd vs cheapest quadcore intel, as requested
[20:29] <directhex_> so add a £40 cooler to that and it's £220 vs £144
[20:30] <directhex_> we could compare a £144 amd? or a £220 intel? what would you prefer?
[20:31] <ali1234> how about FX 8370E (95W - £142) vs the £144 haswell?
[20:32] <directhex_> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-8370E says ~identical in the aggregate. intel better at single core, amd better at threaded (4 core vs 8 core)
[20:32] <ali1234> figures
[20:35] <directhex_> this is sorta AMD's problem. i had £300 to spend on a processor. amd don't make a processor to appeal to me. the intel i bought wipes the floor with the best amd on the market, in every measure except maybe "value for money"
[20:35] <ali1234> yeah, i agree, that's kinda my point
[20:36] <ali1234> AMD FX run from £60 - £180, intel i5 to i7 runs from £140 to £900
[20:37] <directhex_> only 900?
[20:37] <ali1234> 839 seems to be the most expensive before you get to xeons
[20:38] <directhex_> bargain! should have got one of those
[20:38] <directhex_> ;)
[20:38] <directhex_> witcher 2 seems okay on ultra graphics settings on linux. that's good.
[20:42] <daftykins> did you solve your 15.04 Bioshock issues?
[20:42] <directhex_> not yet
[20:51] <ali1234> who else other than asus makes motherboards with all 4-pin fan connectors?
[20:52] <ali1234> seems like everyone else just has it for the CPU fan and all the others scream
[20:57] <directhex_> hm. not something i've actively paid attention to
[20:57] <directhex_> according to my motherboard manual, it's got 5 4-pin fan headers
[20:57] <directhex_> and no 3-pin
[21:07] <ali1234> directhex_: and what make is it?
[21:07] <directhex_> msi
[21:07] <ali1234> i see. i was actually looking at them... my GPU is MSI and it's very quiet
[21:08] <directhex_> i wanted out-of-the-box linux support.
[21:08] <ali1234> motherboard is ASUS and the CPU bracket lug snapped off, causing the heatsink to fall off while in operation :(
[21:08] <directhex_> not many motherboards advertise that
[21:09] <penguin42> ali1234: Ouch
[21:09] <ali1234> out of the box linux support is also good of course... my brother got a new ASUS mobo recently and virtually nothing on it works in linux, not even the ethernet and sata works properly
[21:09] <directhex_> ali1234: my cooler's bolted to a metal backplate, thankfully :x
[21:10] <ali1234> although to be fair it was a year ago
[21:10] <directhex_> ali1234: that's what i wanted to avoid
[21:10] <directhex_> ali1234: killernic. supported out of the box on ubuntu, but not windows 10 :D
[21:10] <ali1234> silly name though. is it actually good?
[21:11] <directhex_> pfft
[21:11] <directhex_> it's just a nic, tbh. these days, anyway
[21:11] <directhex_> back in the day, the killernic was a $300 (!) network card, for teh gamerz
[21:12] <directhex_> it sold itself as having tcp/ip offloading, for improved game performance. you could also run apps on its embedded cpu, e.g. torrent client running on the nic
[21:12] <directhex_> nowadays it's just a fancy windows driver on top of a conventional firmwareless atheros gigabit chip
[21:12] <ali1234> ah okay
[21:12] <ali1234> i think i prefer it to be the latter, to be honest
[21:13] <directhex_> well, it is. the 163mb gui crap doesn't run on windows 10, so even on windows i'm using the basic ethernet driver for it
[21:13] <directhex_> description:    Qualcomm Atheros(R) AR816x/AR817x PCI-E Ethernet Network Driver
[21:14] <daftykins> had someone just yesterday with some kind of alienware laptop, atheros killer NIC was fine but the killer wireless isn't supported by Linux yet
[21:15] <directhex_> 08:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Killer E220x Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 13)
[21:15] <directhex_> ooh, some unknown pci ids. /me submits
[21:18] <daftykins> killer wireless was meant to be waiting on the conversion of firmware from Windows drivers for ath10k
[21:25] <directhex_> submitted 2 new usb controllers to lspci
[21:26] <directhex_> erk forghot to unplug car
[21:29] <daftykins> heh, had to double take that sentence
[21:30] <directhex_> there we go
[21:31] <ali1234> one of my neighbours has a car charger thing on the front of his house now
[21:31] <ali1234> i did wonder how secure that was
[21:31] <directhex_> yeah, i'm waiting on the installer to get one fitted
[21:31] <ali1234> can anyone just steal electricity from them?
[21:31] <directhex_> ali1234: depends on which of the 3 vendors made it
[21:32] <ali1234> based on google images it looks like a ford focus one
[21:32] <directhex_> that's dumb, those aren't subsidized
[21:32] <ali1234> subsidized?
[21:32] <directhex_> podpoint, rolec and chargemaster are the 3 main vendors
[21:33] <directhex_> the govt pays 70% of the costs of getting an ev charger fitted, to a £900 limit
[21:33] <directhex_> so you pay £200 or less
[21:33] <directhex_> the points alone are about £450 without fitting
[21:33] <ali1234> well, i haven't seen it up close, and they all look fairly similar
[21:35] <directhex_> at any rate, rolec have a really cheapy little lock. chargemaster have an isolator switch activated via a key. i honestly don't know for podpoint
[21:36] <directhex_> so you could steal electricity relatively easily... if you have something with a type 2 mennekes socket on it
[21:36] <directhex_> or type 1 j1772
[21:36] <ali1234> like .. an electric car
[21:36] <directhex_> yes!
[21:36] <shauno> I think we make some car chargers too, oddly enough.
[21:37] <directhex_> HAH!
[21:37] <directhex_> pod point has... a padlock hole on the plug
[21:37] <directhex_> you can padlock it to its stand
[21:38] <shauno> seems like something of an afterthought
[21:38] <ali1234> i would just have an on/off switch inside the building, is that a typical thing that you get when it is installed?
[21:40] <directhex_> ali1234: well, as the home owner, you get control over the circuit breaker
[21:40] <directhex_> so you could just flip its circuit in your box
[21:41] <ali1234> that's not exactly convenient though. i was thinking more like the oven on/off switch that you have to have, by law...
[21:41] <directhex_> no, that's not a "thing"
[21:43] <daftykins> i'm sure an electrician could come up with an idea
[22:26] <directhex_> daftykins: it's a threading issue!
[22:26] <directhex_> forced single-processor execution & bioshock runs
[22:27] <daftykins> that's funky 0o
[22:28] <ball> Hmm... I should probably have said "no" when Ubuntu asked me whether to upgrade.
[22:29] <daftykins> ball: :D
[22:31] <directhex_> daftykins: i guess it's not "broken on 15.04", it's "broken on 6-core hyperthreaded processors"
[22:32] <daftykins> hmm i wonder, would disabling HT change much?
[22:32] <daftykins> i'm sure i read something about some modern games hating it at times
[22:33] <ali1234> or just set the core affinity?
[22:33] <ali1234> oh you already did that. carry on
[22:36] <directhex_> 12 threads of obscene power, only execute on one!
[22:37] <directhex_> getting that fixed would be nice
[22:37] <daftykins> only if you're a fan of that game ;)
[22:37]  * daftykins wasn't
[22:37] <penguin42> directhex_: I think processors with non-power of 2 cores freaked out simple algorithms
[22:38] <directhex_> penguin42: well, it could be that, i have NPOT cores!
[22:44] <penguin42> directhex_: Can you show me your /proc/cpuinfo ?
[22:45] <directhex_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10903828/
[22:46] <penguin42> directhex_: OK, so 0..5 are one set of threads, 6..11 are the other set
[22:47] <penguin42> pretty much like my 4 core is 0..3,4..7
[22:47] <directhex_> seems that way
[23:23] <daftykins> keep seeing this penguin1263 and thinking "that's not our penguin!"
[23:31] <penguin42> where is that penguin?
[23:31] <daftykins> #ubuntu
[23:31] <penguin42> ah
[23:32] <daftykins> :D
[23:32] <daftykins> imposterrrr!