[00:17]  * wxl waves
[00:19] <ianorlin> hi wxl
[00:20] <wxl> ianorlin: here's a quick and easy task: triage this bug 854261. looks like we even got a fix
[00:20] <wxl> i
[00:20] <wxl> 'm still on the bus home so not up to confirming and such XD
[00:23] <Unit193> wxl: You know about OFTC/#debian-lxqt and #lxde I'd presume/hope?
[00:23] <wxl> Unit193: nawt #debian-lxqt but thx
[01:04] <wxl> hey Unit193 do you know some rule somewhere that a major feature can't go into an LTS unless it's survived a cycle? i'm thinknig about whether or not it's concievable to get into 16.04 if we msis 15.10 with lxqt
[01:04] <Unit193> You can, if it's a good idea is another question.
[01:05] <wxl> true true
[01:06] <Unit193> First release with LXQt, needing to be supported for 3 years.  Yep, sounds like fun.
[01:06] <wxl> hahahah
[01:06] <wxl> thanks for being ye olde voice of reason Unit193
[01:07] <Unit193> Heh, sure.
[01:07] <Unit193> ...Though normally I'm the insane one.
[01:07] <wxl> really?
[01:08] <Unit193> Ask bluesabre.
[01:08] <wxl> bluesabre: so i hear you're Unit193's psychiatrist?
[01:08] <wxl> ;)
[01:08] <wxl> afk
[01:08] <bluesabre> I don't charge him because I feel sorry for him
[01:17] <ianorlin> haha
[20:54] <rafaellaguna> ta dah!
[20:55] <wxl> good boy rafaellaguna :)
[20:55] <rafaellaguna> woof!
[20:55] <wxl> also rafaellaguna we talk about lubuntu admin kind of stuff here, too. so it's not just about development of code, but the general direction for the team as a whole
[20:55] <wxl> that's why e.g. ianorlin is here
[20:56] <rafaellaguna> oh hello ianorlin!
[20:56] <rafaellaguna> who is bluesabre?
[20:56] <wxl> rafaellaguna: bluesabre is apparently the guy providing psychiatric help to Unit193's tormented soul
[20:56] <rafaellaguna> O.O
[20:57] <wxl> see all the conversation's you've missed? :)
[20:57] <rafaellaguna> and what about MY needs? assign me one. now.
[20:57]  * wxl hands rafaellaguna a cookie
[20:57] <rafaellaguna> no, I have no bounce for the past. this is "my first time" (omg, I said it)
[20:57] <wxl> hehe
[20:59] <rafaellaguna> and who is ochosi?
[20:59] <ochosi> ehm, me?
[20:59] <rafaellaguna> HELLO!
[20:59] <ochosi> no need to shout
[20:59] <rafaellaguna> :D
[21:00] <wxl> ochosi: rafaellaguna was merely inquiring as to who the strange face was
[21:00] <ochosi> right, i wasn't aware that my face was strange
[21:00] <rafaellaguna> not strictly his face, wxl. his hair is my concern
[21:01] <wxl> shhh, rafaellaguna, your orientation is starting to show :)
[21:01] <ochosi> either way, i'm xubuntu's project and artwork lead
[21:01] <rafaellaguna> what orientation?
[21:01] <wxl> oh cool! you just hanging out here for fun, ochosi ?
[21:01] <ochosi> yeah, mostly
[21:01] <wxl> rafaellaguna: the less straight one :)
[21:01] <rafaellaguna> oh that. yeah.
[21:01] <ochosi> used to hang out in #lubuntu, but then Unit193 told me about this channel
[21:01] <Unit193> ochosi: I've seen it.  Yep.
[21:02] <wxl> ah cool so Unit193's been inviting all his friends then
[21:02] <rafaellaguna> an artwork colleague? nice!
[21:30] <gsilva> rafaellaguna, were you able to publish stuff using bzr?
[21:31] <wxl> gsilva: i think it makes sense to keep admin-level discussion here. offtopic really should be for OFFTOPIC matters :)
[21:31] <gsilva> Alright then. I'll use this one then
[21:31] <gsilva> Beforehand: Did you have time to read the email I sent this morning?
[21:31] <gsilva> Well, morning in my timezone :P
[21:31] <wxl> yes but i haven't managed a reply yet
[21:31] <wxl> and it likely will not come until way later
[21:32] <gsilva> Okay, do you have time to discuss the thread here? It seems you were the only one interested so let's try to plan something together
[21:32] <gsilva> I fear doing something terribly stupid that can hurt me in the future. Apologies for nagging you constantly, but you're the only one that likes my ideas :D
[21:33] <wxl> yeah i'd be happy to discuss
[21:33] <wxl> and no worries
[21:33] <wxl> and also i'm not the only one that likes your ideas :)
[21:33] <gsilva> Well, no one else replied to the email, so I'm assuming most of the guys called me a jerk, like "Who the hell is this guy?"
[21:33] <gsilva> Anyway, let's move on the topic then:
[21:34] <gsilva> There's a huge problem in the background that is related with how people perceive the open source world. In my perspective, only Canonical can change that but I am not seeing anything I can do to start something from there.
[21:34] <gsilva> Adjusting what we do, maybe will get more people interested - the objective, mission and goal thing I mentioned in the email.
[21:35] <gsilva> The UOS may be a good opportunity to openly talk about this, but I am not sure if I'm the right guy to do it since I am very critical about Canonical and the Community itself. Also, I'm not sure if we do organize (or try to) a dedicated thread or start from one of them
[21:36] <wxl> yes open source is a problem
[21:36] <wxl> it's hard to get people to volunteer, even for an animal shelter (to reference your example)
[21:36] <wxl> but the community needs nurturing
[21:36] <wxl> constantly
[21:36] <wxl> and recognition is very important
[21:36] <gsilva> I know, but the people that do it, they feel motivated to do it. And when they achieve something, they sleep better. Unfortunately, the open source world seems a copy monkey of what others do and that is so worng, specially when there's a lot more that we can do/achieve
[21:36] <wxl> this is why i tend do to try call out major accomplishments and attribute them to the people doing them
[21:36] <gsilva> I believe in that
[21:37] <gsilva> Yes, incentives also play a very important role here, indeed
[21:37] <wxl> people in open source do what they do because they love it
[21:37] <wxl> and they realize that they can actually participate where in the rest of the software industry, it's a walled palace
[21:38] <gsilva> I like the Open Source world because it is where I found most of the exciting people and talented ones too. Also, there's people that dedicates their free-time to animal shelters, feeding homeless people and such. We dedicate our spare time to improve our world
[21:38] <gsilva> isn't that it, in the end? Rather we are copying others or building new technologies, that's what we do!
[21:39] <gsilva> For instance: Scientific Workplace, the most common LaTeX interpreter in the academic community, costs $200 to a student. With two softwares, they can EASILY replace SWP - Lyx and Maxima
[21:39] <gsilva> and there's a huge load of information out there!
[21:39] <wxl> i guess i'm confused about where you're frustrated exactly. i know some things are lost in translation and that may be it
[21:39] <gsilva> I'm not frustrated :D
[21:39] <wxl> oh ok
[21:40] <gsilva> You're talking about incentives and I'm talking about how having a purpose helps people feeling performed in the end
[21:40] <wxl> ahhhh
[21:40] <wxl> yes
[21:40] <wxl> so here's what i've learned in management:
[21:40] <wxl> no one has the same motivator
[21:40] <gsilva> And I know we are not all equal, but that satisfies me when I accomplish something, regardless of the people's reactions
[21:40] <wxl> for some people, it's money or some sort of tangible compensation
[21:40] <gsilva> yes, that's true
[21:40] <wxl> for other people, it is accomplishing a purpose, making a difference in the world
[21:41] <wxl> for other people, it's an acknowledgement of ttheir efforts
[21:41] <wxl> so i'm not talking about incentives in a vacuum, but saying that's one of a bunch of things we should do
[21:41] <gsilva> Yes, agree. Then we should NOT focus on the first group of people, right?
[21:41] <gsilva> There are good, non-materialistic folks out there.
[21:41] <wxl> well, the shirts may be of value to them
[21:42] <gsilva> well, in the case of a design, I think that is sweet to do. Like, design our logo and we'll offer the winner a t-shirt with the brand-new logo
[21:42] <gsilva> that's cute, IMO
[21:42] <gsilva> that's one example: I confess I don't remember much about your plans
[21:42] <wxl> it's ok
[21:42] <wxl> i haven't been too specific
[21:42] <wxl> but my idea was essentially gamification
[21:43] <gsilva> like?
[21:43] <wxl> like a game
[21:43] <wxl> there's rules to the game
[21:43] <gsilva> winner has a prize, is that what you mean with gamification
[21:43] <gsilva> ?
[21:43] <wxl> and there is an advantage for new players
[21:43] <wxl> yep and it's point based
[21:44] <wxl> and for peopel that do more difficult moves
[21:44] <gsilva> I'm asking because there's the theory of games, so I thought you were referring to that
[21:44] <wxl> most points wins :)
[21:44] <wxl> yeah not that :)
[21:44] <gsilva> Yeah, I see. Well, I find it interesting indeed, but very difficult to achieve
[21:44] <wxl> i think i can do it
[21:44] <wxl> but that's only one of things we want to do
[21:45] <wxl> i think we should do a sort of marketing piece on the amazing things that people do with lubuntu
[21:45] <gsilva> What about this: What if we organize regular online summits where we organize interesting online conferences, TLs can communicate and show what they do and such?
[21:45] <wxl> like marc tremblay and his school system
[21:45] <gsilva> People may feel motivated to participate if they realize they can appear and have a digital record that they were there
[21:45] <wxl> well the online summits are regular, but if you mean we have regular meetings more often, yes!
[21:45] <gsilva> yes, I meant more often :)
[21:45] <wxl> phillw seemed like he was the primary person behind that and they haven't been done since
[21:45] <wxl> yeah we should do that again
[21:46] <wxl> gsilva: you want to take on the task of organizing them?
[21:46] <wxl> it's pretty easy really
[21:46] <gsilva> Okay, that's doable. But that's useful for further steps. We first need to find users. I'm guessing that phillw eventually got tired of trying to organize them and people didn't present contents to show
[21:46] <wxl> no, i think he got pissed at how the council treated him
[21:47] <gsilva> OH!, you mean the UOS sprints? No, I meant dedicated sessions to our community - unless other communities want to participate, of course!
[21:47] <wxl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings
[21:48] <gsilva> Those kind, yes, but online
[21:48] <wxl> online means not irc?
[21:48] <gsilva> Interviewing TLs and do questions, interact with the community
[21:48] <gsilva> Sorry. Video stuff
[21:48] <wxl> one sec
[21:49] <gsilva> Record hangouts (or whatever) and post online. Take notes of the meeting and post them on pastebin or ubuntupad or something like that so that people can read
[21:49] <gsilva> Magazines like "OMGUbuntu" can pick specific parts and do another news from us. Raise our awareness, basically
[21:50] <gsilva> Do conferences like: How can Open Source change your country/life, specific tecnologies being developed under the hood
[21:50] <gsilva> Are you following the idea? I'm not sure if this was the kind of conferences you guys organized before
[22:16] <wxl> gsilva: sorry work meeting :(
[22:17] <gsilva> no problem. If this time is not suitable to you we can postpone this discussion
[22:17] <wxl> gsilva: no it's fine
[22:17] <wxl> gsilva: so my only concern about hangouts/skype/any other solution i've found is two fold:
[22:17] <gsilva> being -5 or -4 is complicated. It's like 11:20 pm xD
[22:18] <wxl> 1. there's a limit to how many people can join in and still have the audio/video function well
[22:18] <gsilva> I mention those two but I know there are some more suitable apps
[22:18] <wxl> 2. hangouts is not free and that will irk some people (though that's never bothered ubuntu and several other free software things i know of)
[22:18] <gsilva> Hangouts is not free? What? :o
[22:19] <wxl> gsilva: hey do you know where to download the code?
[22:19] <gsilva> I don't want to use Hangouts anyone since there a lot of people here that are really against Google
[22:19] <gsilva> You mean they are closed source then
[22:19] <wxl> in our world, when we say free we mean free as in freedom, not beer :)
[22:19] <wxl> yes
[22:19] <gsilva> ah, okay
[22:19] <wxl> if you have another solution, i'd be into checking it out
[22:19] <gsilva> Either way, I don't want to use Hangouts because there are a lot of people against hangouts
[22:19] <gsilva> Google*
[22:20] <wxl> yeah well i don't know another solution
[22:20] <wxl> i do know that our old irc meetings were just on irc
[22:20] <wxl> but very transparent and community folks would join
[22:20] <gsilva> hold on. Melodie once showed me a Hangout/Skype alternative because it is open source
[22:21] <gsilva> there y'a go: http://www.linphone.org/
[22:21] <gsilva> The goodness about Hangouts is that it has integration with YouTube, so one could immediately upload it to the web
[22:22] <wxl> yeah
[22:22] <wxl> and for the general community asking them to install software they don't have might not be ideal
[22:22] <gsilva> I don't know any other alternative, but we can arrange that if people are interested
[22:23] <wxl> gsilva: well let's not get hung up on the details. we can work on that later
[22:23] <gsilva> Throughout my life I learned I shouldn't applicate to stuff if people don't want it. Maybe it's my managerial insticts... I want to know if people are interested in this idea, wxl. And this idea is general all other communities - in fact, some might want to get involved too, right?
[22:23] <wxl> gsilva: i think for right now we need at least two things:
[22:23] <gsilva> So, do you think this is worthy to mention at UOS?
[22:23] <wxl> 1. get the team leaders together in one place to talk
[22:24] <wxl> 2. invite the community to join in
[22:24] <wxl> additionally we need to act in such a way that doesn't just maintain things or accomplish things, but grows thing
[22:24] <wxl> and for that, we need a clearly defined purpose and goal
[22:24] <wxl> this is something we could talk about at UOS
[22:24] <wxl> since i was hoping we'd have a general check in/planning session
[22:25] <gsilva> I really want to change people's mindset about Open Source and I think this is a start
[22:25] <gsilva> Indeed, agree
[22:25] <wxl> gsilva: part of the problem is not everyone's like me and you. they don't necessarily see that they should or even could contribute
[22:25] <wxl> i mean if someone gets really excited about windows, it's not like they're going to volunteer to help :)
[22:26] <gsilva> Let's change that. Let's motivate people and eventually Canonical will realize they need this as well
[22:26] <gsilva> Two completely different things, wxl. Windows is not open source and does not appreciate your contribution either.
[22:26] <gsilva> Linux/Open Source world is completely the opposite.
[22:26] <wxl> right but most of the open source world waits for contributors to happen
[22:27] <wxl> yyou're probably not around when i help people in #lubuntu but i almost always encourange them to contribute
[22:28] <gsilva> Right, what we are trying to do here is to get contributors and keep them motivated to contribute regularly, isn't it?
[22:28] <wxl> it's the advocacy that needs to happen
[22:28] <wxl> yes
[22:28] <wxl> but to be proactive about it
[22:28] <wxl> help guide them
[22:28] <wxl> and nurture them
[22:28] <gsilva> People may not be like me or you, but we want to inspire them to be
[22:29] <wxl> we need a "community manager" really
[22:29] <gsilva> Speaking of which, do we have a communication TL?
[22:29] <wxl> but i think there's too few of us to support a single person filling that role
[22:29] <wxl> not as far as i know :O
[22:29] <wxl> here's some videoconferencing solutions for us to check out:
[22:29] <wxl> http://estreamchat.com/
[22:30] <wxl> https://openmeetings.apache.org/
[22:30] <wxl> http://bigbluebutton.org/
[22:31] <gsilva> Don't be afraid, wxl. That's the reason why I want to bring this idea to a lot of people simultaneously, either by emailing them or prepare a session at UOS, if it gets approved
[22:31] <wxl> no fear here :)
[22:31] <wxl> i will support the UOS session
[22:31] <gsilva> How to prepare all this for a UOS session?
[22:32] <gsilva> What to mention, what not to mention, what to propose, who to bring on board?
[22:32] <wxl> well i think we should have it under the guide of a lubuntu planning session
[22:32] <wxl> i think if we can develop it in our own system, we can then present it to other teams
[22:32] <wxl> and then if they can adopt it, perhaps we could all work together to share users
[22:32] <gsilva> What do mean?
[22:33] <gsilva> Didn't follow you there
[22:33] <wxl> sorry not guide, guise
[22:34] <gsilva> You mean bringing this up to brainstorm and prepare something out there?
[22:34] <wxl> gsilva: yes. we have several things that we, as admins, need to work on, this included
[22:35] <gsilva> Okay. When are those meetings held? How to apply/Propose new stuff then?
[22:35] <gsilva> We don't have much time...
[22:35] <wxl> gsilva: ummmmm hold on
[22:37] <wxl> gsilva: https://uds.ubuntu.com/getinvolved/propose-a-session/
[22:39] <gsilva> Wait, we're talking about different things
[22:39] <wxl> ?
[22:39] <gsilva> I misunderstood you before. You're meaning we should take this topic to a Lubuntu Planning Session (if they have one), right
[22:40] <wxl> kind of yes
[22:40] <wxl> they won't have one
[22:40] <wxl> uless we propose one
[22:40] <wxl> so we should :)
[22:40] <gsilva> Propose a Lubuntu Planning Session
[22:40] <gsilva> yea, I figured
[22:40] <gsilva> Who should create the session?
[22:42] <gsilva> And who should we invite?
[22:42] <wxl> everyone
[22:43] <wxl> the team leaders should be there no matter what
[22:43] <wxl> but we should definitely encourage the community to get involved
[22:43] <gsilva> I don't know her/his names
[22:43] <wxl> we don't do a direct invite
[22:43] <gsilva> I have to look for that
[22:43] <wxl> let me take care of that part :)
[22:44] <gsilva> I'd appreciate that
[22:44] <gsilva> Although since I never did it but another time will come
[22:45] <wxl> no rush, gsilva
[22:45] <wxl> there won't be much to prepare
[22:45] <wxl> it will be more of a roundtable than a presentation
[22:45] <gsilva> that's the point :)
[22:46] <wxl> gsilva: here's where we can start the web conferencing solution: (ignore the proprietary ones) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_conferencing_software
[22:46] <gsilva> I think they require an Hangout session
[22:47] <wxl> yes but this is more about discussing how to implement the REAL thing
[22:47] <wxl> make sure to drum up a blueprint that includes that link so we can work towards it
[22:47] <wxl> OOOOH
[22:47] <gsilva> But most of these are software-based
[22:47] <wxl> specifically says it's a good alternative to hangouts: https://code.google.com/p/telepresence/
[22:47] <wxl> not actually. it's "web conferencing"
[22:48] <gsilva> telepresence works :)
[22:49] <gsilva> Who should create the blueprint on launchpad to get it written in the UOS session request?
[22:49] <wxl> any one of us can, so if you feel like it, that would be awesome
[22:49] <gsilva> I can take care of that, yes, although I'm unsecure on the type of content I should write over there
[22:49] <wxl> just a general idea
[22:50] <wxl> some bullet points
[22:50] <wxl> just say it's a roundtable
[22:50] <gsilva> Okay, I will take care of that soon and will send you the link
[22:50] <wxl> awesome
[22:50] <gsilva> before sending it to UOS 1505 sprint, I'll ask your opinion
[22:53] <gsilva> wxl, would this suffice? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22407/community-roundtable/
[22:54] <wxl> gsilva: no, that serves a slightly differentg purpose, but that would be a good place to bring up the idea to the larger community
[23:00] <gsilva> wxl, who should I put as responsible to conduct the meeting, if we get an approval?
[23:01] <wxl> gsilva: um, you? :)
[23:02]  * Kamilion reads up
[23:02] <Kamilion> oh, video conferencing? Tox is a winner there. https://tox.im/
[23:03] <gsilva> wxl, final feedback: The purpose of this meeting is to discuss different plans and ideas to bring new contributors to the many different teams, since all distributions lack of regular contributors. How to motivate them and how to keep them motivated is the key of the discussion, in this round-table session.
[23:03] <gsilva> The Lubuntu admin team has also came up with some suggestions that would benefit all distributions, although we definitely appreciate everyone's contribution. This is an attempt to gather resources and knowledge to empower the Open Source world.
[23:04] <wxl> gsilva: well, i'd like it to be a general lubuntu planning meeting but that would be one of the points of discussion, or that could be a point of discussion within the community roundtable
[23:04] <Kamilion> tox also has a nice <-> IRC bridge
[23:04] <wxl> oooh that's nice
[23:04] <wxl> easy to record sessions Kamilion ?
[23:04] <Kamilion> yeah
[23:04] <wxl> within tox or what?
[23:04] <wxl> !info tox
[23:05] <Kamilion> yeah, both the video and the text.
[23:05] <wxl> oh WOW
[23:05] <Kamilion> I don't think it's packaged yet in debian or ubuntu though
[23:05] <wxl> Kamilion: want to package it? XD
[23:05] <gsilva> Added Draft two: The purpose of this meeting is to discuss different plans and ideas to bring new contributors to the many different teams, since Lubuntu lacks of regular contributors. How to motivate them and how to keep them motivated is the key of the discussion, in this round-table session.  We then invite all team-leaders to join us and help us perfect this plan.
[23:05] <gsilva> The Admin team has also came up with some suggestions that would benefit all distributions, although we need to first, perfect our plan before introducing it to other people outside Lubuntu.
[23:05] <gsilva> This is an attempt to gather resources and knowledge to empower the Open Source world.
[23:05] <Kamilion> the tox guys are right here on freenode.
[23:05] <wxl> Kamilion: so go bug them ;)
[23:05] <Kamilion> well, depends what you want
[23:06] <Kamilion> https://wiki.tox.im/Toxic
[23:06] <Kamilion> there's the toxic ncurses client
[23:06] <Kamilion> which has no video
[23:06] <wxl> gsilva: so it should include things like planning for lxqt, what other developments we want to do in 15.10, getting a communications leader, etc
[23:06] <Kamilion> https://wiki.tox.im/QTox
[23:06] <wxl> omg this thing is my freaking wet dream
[23:06] <Kamilion> qtox in qt on linux, freebsd and osx
[23:06] <wxl> we should have it allllllllll in the repos
[23:06] <wxl> then i could probably convince us to use that instead of google hangouts
[23:07] <Kamilion> https://wiki.tox.im/UTox  utox, the micro C client
[23:07] <Kamilion> the one I use
[23:07] <Kamilion> https://wiki.tox.im/Client
[23:07] <Kamilion> bunches of others too.
[23:07] <gsilva> OKay, added: We also want to use this session to plan LxQt, what we want to bring to Lubuntu 15.10, to discuss the need to find a communications manager, as well as a community manager and some other important topics that may arise.
[23:07] <wxl> gsilva: perfect :)
[23:07] <Kamilion> qtox would be a good addition to lxqt
[23:08] <gsilva> Alright, sent, wxl. I think they have to accept it now first
[23:08] <wxl> thx gsilva
[23:08] <gsilva> no problem :)
[23:10] <Kamilion> gsilva: one of the issues I have is a lack of a portal to discover more information on how to be an effective helper with lubuntu.
[23:11] <wxl> Kamilion: bring that to the uos session we're planning
[23:11] <gsilva> from here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu you can go to here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#Contribute_to_Lubuntu
[23:11] <Kamilion> and in some cases, nobody but 1-2 people knows how a system works (EG, the ISO building system)
[23:12] <gsilva> As you know, most of each team planning goes on IRC and should be posted on Launchpad as well, unless the team leader isn't doing the coordinating part of the job
[23:12] <gsilva> OR the team is short and most of the stuff happens on IRC
[23:12] <gsilva> Even though I am alone on my team, I tend to post everything in LP, my blog and eventually on mailing lists, just to make sure everyone knows where to look for stuff to do if they want to
[23:12] <gsilva> But, my blog has 0 regular readers, so that's a start :D
[23:13] <Kamilion> likewise.
[23:13] <gsilva> Haha, it's part of the passion, I guess
[23:13] <Kamilion> http://blog.sllabs.com/ hasn't seen updates in a long time because nobody reads it and all I got was spam comments from bots.
[23:14] <gsilva> Well, wordpress.com is good with that since it eliminates spam bots
[23:14] <gsilva> but I have 1-2 readers when I publish an article
[23:14] <gsilva> I believe that my english level doesn't help either. I don't write (nor speak) perfect english, so the attractiveness of the thing may not be desirable
[23:15] <Kamilion> wow, some real classics... http://blog.sllabs.com/2008/05/booting-heron-from-u3.html
[23:16] <Kamilion> "here's how to stick ubuntu 8.04 onto a tweaked sandisk U3 stick"
[23:16] <gsilva> haha
[23:17] <wxl> Kamilion: tox is software based, not web based, right? like you need a client
[23:17] <Kamilion> correct. Required due to the heavy crypto going on.
[23:17] <Kamilion> not something you'd wanna do in javascript
[23:17] <wxl> do you know of a web based client that's maybe half as good?
[23:17] <Kamilion> There are no web clients at all.
[23:18] <Kamilion> it's a peer to peer network.
[23:18] <Kamilion> like skype used to be.
[23:18] <wxl> erm i mean a web based web conferencing client, not a softwa re based video conferencing client
[23:18] <Kamilion> however; as I said, there's an IRC gateway
[23:18] <wxl> i'm looking for a true alternative to hangouts
[23:18] <Kamilion> so if that exists, someone could easily write a similar tool to broadcast the webconference.
[23:19] <Kamilion> and you could, for example, stream to youtube or twitch.tv directly.
[23:20] <Kamilion> I'm sure you could probably spin up a tornado server to handle unencrypted video as well
[23:20] <Kamilion> lemme go ask notsecure
[23:22] <Kamilion> wxl: what is required of a web client?
[23:22] <Kamilion> just joining the video chat?
[23:22] <wxl> yeah so here's what uds uses hangouts for:
[23:22] <Kamilion> (as a viewer or as a speaking participant)
[23:22] <wxl> 1. having maybe 10 max peopel in the chat
[23:22] <Kamilion> I've used hangouts for cards against humanity
[23:22] <wxl> 2. recording
[23:22] <Kamilion> there's 15 max in hangouts, last I checked
[23:23] <wxl> 3. ability to watch anyone else
[23:23] <wxl> FOR anyone else
[23:23] <wxl> 4. recording and uploading to youtube
[23:27] <Kamilion> so you need up to 10 meeting participants, unlimited guests (initial capacity ~25), outgoing stream support for recording/youtube, and dump to disk support.
[23:27] <wxl> dump to disk not necessary if it goes to yt
[23:28] <wxl> or wherever
[23:33] <Kamilion> stream/dump is gonna be pretty close
[23:34] <Kamilion> if there's one, there's the other.
[23:41] <wxl> Kamilion: i now know who to direct that to. if we could whip up a prototype or demo, we can probably get it in the next ubuntu online summit which would make a lot of people happy
[23:48] <Kamilion> [16:44:03] <+Sqt> It'll be easier to have one party use twitch or youtube to stream the chat :)
[23:48] <wxl> Kamilion: how would that work exactly?
[23:50] <Kamilion> at this moment, I'm not exactly sure; I would suspect the same way one would videocast from a linux box generally, using obs https://github.com/jp9000/obs-studio
[23:50] <wxl> okie dokie
[23:50] <Kamilion> that would be the easiest prototype
[23:50] <wxl> so what we really need is a way to interact with it all on the web
[23:50] <wxl> so there eoulw have to be a client/server
[23:50] <wxl> the yt wouldn't be that huge
[23:50] <wxl> it cna be dealt with
[23:50] <Kamilion> tox is nice because it's two systems; toxcore and the application around it
[23:51] <Kamilion> it's not hard to wrap something around toxcore; and I believe it has python bindings already
[23:51] <Kamilion> so in theory, it would be possible to build a browser-centric client
[23:52] <Kamilion> but the easier setup would be setting up a single node as the 'streaming server' with obs, and toxcore dumping it's output into OBS directly. when you wish to begin to stream, you ^invite the client running on the streaming server to join a multiuser conference.
[23:53] <Kamilion> that would require the meeting participants to have the client
[23:53] <Kamilion> but nobody else would need it
[23:53] <wxl> yah that might be reasonable
[23:53] <Kamilion> it was mentioned the IRC gateway might need some love
[23:54] <Kamilion> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tox_%28software%29#/media/File:UTox_Screenshot.png
[23:54] <Kamilion> basically you can consider it like skype layered on top of IRC
[23:54] <wxl> cool
[23:55] <Kamilion> it has a very IRC like multiuser chat room, a bot that can join it and bridge it to IRC directly
[23:55] <Kamilion> and voice and video over the shared core protocol
[23:55] <Kamilion> vaguely similar to google's JINGLE protocol used for hangouts+gtalk
[23:55] <Kamilion> but not based on XMPP
[23:55] <Kamilion> as XML is now considered "that thing with the angle brackets and the pain"
[23:57] <Kamilion> the draw, however, is the pervasive crypto built into the core.
[23:58] <Kamilion> what we would be doing is adding an trusted crypto-to-cleartext peer that bridges the video out elsewhere.
[23:58] <Kamilion> the developers see no issue
[23:58] <Kamilion> and seem to be happy to accept contributions upstream