=== chriadam|away is now known as chriadam
robert_ancellWhat's the recommended method for installing a silo onto an Ubuntu touch device?00:35
robert_ancellI think it's running "phablet-config writable-image" and then apt-get installing the PPA but want to double check.00:37
jcbjoequestion im looking at some youtube vidoes and it shows the BQ Aquaris and the MeizuMX4 and they have ubuntu-touch like a final version .. could i run this build or version on a nexus 5 ?01:20
RAOFrobert_ancell: phablet-tools-citrain contains /usr/bin/citrain which has the “device-upgrade” command to snaffle packages from a silo.01:52
robert_ancellRAOF, awesome. I thought such a tool might exist02:00
jcbjoeanyone using a nexus 4 with or 5 with ubuntu-touch just trying to see if there is a final build or something since its actually being sold as a phone02:33
Elleojcbjoe: the nexus 4 is one of the official reference devices, so there are official images for that; for the nexus 5 there are only community ports (as I understand it they're fairly good ports, but with some battery issues and a few bits of hardware not working right)02:39
jcbjoegot it02:39
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
=== mibofra is now known as Guest75153
=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun
=== anpok_ is now known as anpok
sturmflut-workGood morning everybody06:24
dholbachgood morning06:29
sturmflut-workdholbach: Morning!06:33
dholbachhey sturmflut-work06:34
=== mibofra is now known as Guest10789
=== Ava is now known as Guest59986
kissielMirv, hi! Do you have a minute?07:46
Mirvkissiel: sure, at this hour :)07:49
kissielMirv, I remember you helping us push checkbox-touch to the store07:50
kissielMirv, is there a new way to do that, or someone still has to do it manually?07:50
Mirvkissiel: someone else like popey might have the best answer if there's a new way for that, but there's still the old way too (well, it did change a bit but I should have the newest bits)07:55
kissielMirv, mm, okay07:55
kissielMirv, so still manual, eh? https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/+milestone/1.1 here's the current click, what else should I bring?07:56
Mirvkissiel: the click looks good, let's in parallel wait for an answer whether you can upload it yourself and I'll try if I can upload (at first sight, it seems my setup has a python problem)07:58
kissielMirv, allright, thanks, I'm off to meetings, I'll be back in ~60minutes07:58
popeyMirv: kissiel I can upload for you08:13
Mirvpopey: so you do it via web or such?08:17
popeylogin to store, upload, like anyone else08:18
sil2100popey, ogra_, jibel, davmor2, Mirv: hey guys, I changed the calendar to only have 2 morning and 2 evening meetings in the week - two on Monday to plan out the work for the whole week for both the EU and US timezone, one meeting on Thursday and one on Friday - those are more for 'promotion-like' decisions, as we usually have tests finished on those days08:19
Mirvoh, modern times!08:19
Mirvsil2100: ok, I can see that08:20
Mirvmakes sense08:20
sil2100popey, ogra_, jibel, davmor2, Mirv: we can adjust them later if this setup doesn't quite work08:20
davmor2\o/ lie ins08:21
Mirvpopey: kissiel: well as usual popey can check what happened, I got click-toolbelt now ~working again with the new version of it, and I got https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/api/click-package-upload/com.ubuntu.checkbox/ but then an error when checking package status08:22
Mirvsil2100: should we have a daily cat hangout anyhow?08:22
popeyMirv: kissiel i see no changes to the app on the site.08:23
Mirvpopey: yeah so the error message was probably correct in saying that there was an error08:23
popey(nothing that indicates a new version uploaded)08:23
Mirvpopey: well, you can get the .click, gpg --verify it against the .sig and upload08:23
popeyhello oscar__08:23
popeywhere from?08:23
popeyah lp08:23
Mirvpopey: https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/+milestone/1.108:24
oscar__How can I do to unlock the phone ubuntu08:24
popeydefine "unlock"?08:24
kissielMirv, I got no access to that URL08:24
popeykissiel: it fails click-reviewer-tools anyway. http://paste.ubuntu.com/10937021/08:25
kissielpopey, thanks!08:25
popeykissiel: specifically you need to update the framework and spit out a new click - the store will reject it otherwise.08:26
walde079susup guys08:26
kissielpopey, understood, will fix,test and ping you guys in a bit08:26
davmor2oscar__: how do you mean unlock?08:26
oscar__yes it because I define as security a pin of 4 digits and then the terminal by mistake set the phablet password for letters.08:27
sil2100Mirv: let's schedule a separate meeting for that ;) I'll join the cat club once we finally get ours!08:28
oscar__I'm using the "BQ Ubuntu Edition"08:28
davmor2popey: any ideas ^08:28
Mirvoscar__: the terminal app itself shouldn't set the password as letters, but indeed it asks for the 4 digit pin code via normal keyboard, if that's what you mean? you can type your 4 digits to the terminal with that normal keyboard08:30
Mirvsil2100: ok! ;)08:30
popeyyeah, its the same password08:30
popeysudo / unlocking phone / terminal / file manager - same pin/passphrase08:30
Mirvoh, I probably shouldn't be asking that but... any tips to hack app lifecycle for certain apps, if I accept to void all warranties and such? ;)08:31
* Mirv would like ssh connections to stay open08:32
Stskeepsport mosh?08:32
oscar__but I do not have access to the applications, and the keyboard is numeric :(08:32
MirvStskeeps: hmm mosh might be an option here. I never really switched to that but in this case it might be time to switch.08:32
StskeepsMirv: it's totally lovely.08:33
Mirvso I've heard08:33
oscar__if I connect via USB can access the phone's shell?08:33
popeyMirv: i asked tvoss for a lifecycle exception for terminal - no reply08:34
popeypmg suggested it should be possible if developer mode switch is on.08:35
popeywhich I think is reasonable08:35
oscar__yes is active :(08:36
sil2100Mirv: btw. isn't there a LP team for cat owners or something? ;p08:36
oscar__I activated the mode of development because he was not able to change the password for the root user.08:38
oscar__And now? How can I get around the situation?08:38
popeyoscar__: what is the problem you have right now?08:39
popeyoscar__: Your password, set in System Settings -> Security & Privacy. That's the same as the password you use in Terminal, and sudo.08:39
popeySo what is currently broken?08:39
oscar__to access the application asks for the security pin.08:40
oscar__and enter the pin does not accept08:40
oscar__yes this the same password08:41
popeyyou can lock and unlock your phone with the same pin?08:41
jgdxMirv, +1 for mosh!08:41
jgdxa truly "you're not going to look back" system08:42
oscar__I am enter the same pin and not to allow unlock08:42
popeyoscar__: what exactly did you do? You said something about root password? What did you do to set that?08:43
davmor2and why08:43
popeyjgdx: yeah, mosh would be even more amazing if network manager wasn't broken in 15.04 :(08:44
seb128popey, how broken?08:44
Mirvpopey: ok. yeah, reasonable under dev mode.08:44
Mirvsil2100: not sure if there's yet :D08:45
popeyseb128: you can't have two network cards on the same machine on the same lan (e.g. Wired & Wifi on same network)08:45
popeyknown bug08:45
oscar__the console changed the password of the phablet user to "enter" and I enabled the developer so because he was not able to.  As a safety had set the blockades pin 4440.08:45
seb128weird, wfm08:45
popeyat the same time?08:45
popeyit's known upstream too, and fixed with a patch I believe08:45
Mirvjgdx: just reading http://blog.cloudpassage.com/2012/09/25/mitigating-security-risks-mosh/ though :)08:45
seb128it routes through one at least08:45
popeyright, thats the problem, "same time" is the key phrase08:45
popeynot if both are on08:45
seb128I get access to internet&co08:45
seb128well I'm connected to both08:46
seb128and I can access to machines local&internet08:46
seb128not sure what else you could be doing08:46
seb128specifying the source interface?08:46
popeyit's known upstream, not just me08:46
seb128well, I'm unsure how you can see the bug if everything is working08:46
popeycyphermox said it's on his to-do list08:46
seb128you want to force packets to go through the wifi?08:46
seb128or the eth?08:46
seb128and not the system to pick one for you?08:47
popeyno, i just want it to work08:47
oscar__currently only have the numeric keypad to unlock and does not accept the pin08:47
popeyit drops packets for 30 seconds, then works for 30 seconds08:47
seb128oh, urg08:47
Mirv+ setting up mosh without making image writable (which I try to avoid currently) seems a bit hard since one isn't allowed to execute binaries form /home/phablet. who cares about security.. oh, right, me08:47
seb128I don't see that here, not sure why08:47
popeyare both interfaces on same lan segment?08:48
Mirvbut yes, thanks for reminding about mosh anyway, either that or disabling lifecycle management for terminal08:48
popeysame subnet?08:48
seb128well, if cyphermox is on it let's hope he fixes it for those who get the issue08:48
seb128popey, my home config is a modem/dsl router with eth ports and a wifi ap08:48
seb128which I'm both using directly connected to my laptop/dock station08:48
seb128nothing else08:48
seb128so I guess so?08:48
seb128I'm not a sysadmin, didn't play with anything08:48
popeyseb128: bug 143633008:49
seb128just plugged the dock to the router08:49
ubot5bug 1436330 in network-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "Network Manager doesn't set metric for local networks any more, causing connection issues" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/143633008:49
seb128and enabled wifi08:49
davmor2oscar__: what?  I think you are losing us.  The console doesn't change anything.  It might ask you to Enter your Password.  The password is your pin.  The only way it would of change would be if you changed it.08:49
seb128popey, thanks08:49
oscar__then I do not know what happened, because it changed the initial pin :(08:50
popeyoscar__: did you use passwd on the command line, or some other tool to set the password?08:50
popeyoscar__: you said you set root password?08:50
popeywhat did you do?08:51
popeyPlease, answer the questions specificall, as it's very hard to help when you don't, but answer questions we didn't ask.08:51
oscar__I apologize, but in the end did the following:  sudo -i08:52
popeythat should work fine.08:52
popeywhat else?08:53
oscar__then i set the password08:54
oscar__then i set the password:  passwd phablet08:55
popeyok, that's fine.08:55
popeyso whatever you set the password to... that _is_ your pin08:56
davmor2popey: yeah the issue is going to be that the lock screen is set to pin so no way to type in a password08:56
=== JMulholland_ is now known as JMulholland
davmor2popey: you can't type in boo with 123408:57
davmor2popey: sound like oscar__ changed the password in the terminal but that didn't change the input method of the login screen08:58
oscar__I changed to a different and letters.08:58
popeyright, I agree with davmor208:58
popeyconnect via adb and then "passwd phablet" and set it to 1234 temporarily?08:59
popeythen use system settings to set it to something better08:59
oscar__And now I have no way to unlock because the keyboard is just like digits.08:59
davmor2oscar__: read popey 's lines above it gives a possible solution09:00
boichevDoes the upgrade to 15.05 require something special because I can't see it on the Aquaris 4.5 ?09:00
oscar__okay I'll see how I do it on mac09:00
popeyboichev: we haven't released a 15.04 update for bq phones yet09:00
seb128jgdx, hey, any idea how what info to ask on issues like https://askubuntu.com/questions/614635/no-cellular-data-after-update ?09:01
boichevpopey: ahh I see :) thanks09:01
oscar__I need a few minutes I'll be back09:01
oscar__Thank you for your support09:01
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy World Wish Day! :-D09:02
oscar__The operating system apple where I can get the binary for debugging the mobile phone?09:04
popeyyou probably need adb from some android package09:04
oscar__to have the lock screen can not access the device via USB09:07
popeyoh, yeah.09:10
popeyThis is a pickle.09:10
davmor2popey, oscar__ : adb won't work the phone isn't unlocked....maybe factory reset from the recovery09:11
oscar__And how I do it? how can I do a reset to factory can not unlock the screen?09:12
davmor2oscar__: give me 2 minutes09:13
oscar__okay davmor209:13
davmor2oscar__: reboot the phone and press and keep the volume up key pressed.  When you get the menu screen press volume up till the arrow is on recovery, ping me once you have that09:16
oscar__yes works!!!!09:18
davmor2oscar__: once the arrow is on recovery, press the volume down09:18
oscar__thank you very much !!!! you guys are the greatest !!!09:18
davmor2oscar__: there is more yet09:19
davmor2oscar__: you should now be on a screen with the ubuntu logo right?09:19
popeydavmor2: sounds like he's fixed himself :)09:19
oscar__is identical to the bootloader android, is already doing recovery.09:19
davmor2oscar__: so you did the factory reset and are happy now \o/  you will lose all data but you will have a working phone again :)09:20
oscar__no :(09:21
oscar__It is in the same situation :(09:21
davmor2oscar__: did you do the factory reset?09:23
davmor2oscar__: or did you just go into recovery09:23
ulrichardI just had an incoming call, while I had the telephone app open. It rang, but I couldn't figure out how to accept it. Is that a known problem?09:25
davmor2oscar__: well do you need me to take you through resetting it?09:25
oscar__Now to try again unwittingly chose the "bootloader", how can I do to get back to the menu?09:28
oscar__the screen is to appear: Fastboot mode ...09:29
oscar__how can I return to the menu?09:30
davmor2oscar__: I didn't say bootloader09:30
davmor2oscar__: I said recovery09:30
davmor2oscar__: press the power button and vol up button for a very long time.09:33
davmor2oscar__: then select recovery and press the volume down09:35
oscar__yes did it. this time appears the logo of ubuntu09:35
davmor2one second let me get to the same place now09:36
davmor2oscar__: on the recovery page press volume up that should give you a menu09:37
davmor2oscar__: now press down to wipe data/factory reset09:38
davmor2oscar__: now press power09:39
davmor2oscar__: then press down till you get to the Yes -- delete all user data09:39
oscar__now: -- Wiping data...09:39
oscar__Data wipe complete.09:40
davmor2oscar__: when that finishes select reboot the system now09:40
davmor2oscar__: you back setting up your phone now right?09:41
oscar__Now yes. Factory reset done!09:41
oscar__Yes it works perfectly.09:42
oscar__Thanks again for your help and patience in helping me. Grateful.09:43
davmor2oscar__: now just remember that the pin you set is the system password throughout09:43
davmor2oscar__: no worries glad you are back to a working system]09:44
popeynice one davmor209:44
popeydavmor2: we should document this...09:44
popeysomeone has :)09:45
oscar__I'll see what happened. I will try to reproduce the same mistake. It seems that when setting the screen lock as four numbers and then in terminal change to another type of password is not very clear.09:47
oscar__Thanks for everything !!!09:48
davmor2oscar__: you can change it to a password just use the tool provided in system-setting rather than the terminal09:48
oscar__Yes it makes sense :)09:49
Se7morning all09:52
=== chriadam is now known as chriadam|away
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=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
jgdxseb128, hm, I'll take a look11:05
TenLeftFingersLooking at bugs filed against the browser. I don't see anything for what I'm experiencing - the notification bar sometimes overlaps the top of the browser. Sometimes the browser moves up and covers the notification bar (although swiping down still works). But on first launch, it typically displays itself beneath the notification area like other apps. should I file this?11:06
sturmflut-workSaviq: Ping11:06
Saviqsturmflut-work, wassup?11:07
sturmflut-workSaviq: Regarding the e-mail from Davide Alberelli about the "False Roaming", this is a somewhat special and complicated case. Two german providers joined their network and it is intentional that the phone roams from one into the other. The only difference I see between Android and Ubuntu Touch is that Android apparently roams to the other network and activates mobile data *without* the user having to activate "data roaming".11:11
Saviqsturmflut-work, well, yeah, that's what I meant, we need to differentiate between "local/national" and "abroad" roaming11:13
sturmflut-workSaviq: Sadly the situation is complicated further by the fact that the two providers are changing their configurations during normal operation, sometimes one region at a time, and they have lots of MVNOs on their network too which all have to change their settings as well. There are lots of problems with non-Ubuntu phones too. I wonder if the problem can be properly debugged at the moment.11:17
Saviqsturmflut-work, dunno, we might need to introduce network-specific quirks if we can't reliably determine stuff from the network props and such11:18
Saviqsturmflut-work, it's why I asked for a bug report so that people that know more about this can relate11:19
sturmflut-workSaviq: I have the necessary SIM cards and phones here, but am short on time at the moment. Should I come up with something today I'll try to file a proper bug report.11:20
Saviqsturmflut-work, thanks, very much appreciated11:20
jgdxpopey, what's the issue with nm and mosh?11:21
popeyjgdx: bug in nm causes machines with more than one network connection to fail to talk to the network11:21
popeynot a mosh problem11:22
jgdxyes, nm on 15.04 has been a treat so far :p11:22
popeyit never connects for me on wake from suspend.11:23
popeyi have to manually fiddle the connections11:23
jgdxWi-Fi? Mine's ultra quick, the connected notification is there immediately after login11:24
popeythis is a known bug11:24
jgdxcommunication between wpa and nm is at a new low I find11:26
sturmflut-workSaviq: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ofono/+bug/144999012:12
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1449990 in ofono (Ubuntu) "National Data Roaming on the bq Aquaris E4.5" [Undecided,New]12:12
sturmflut-workSaviq: I'll be leaving germany in a couple of hours so if something vital is missing it would be best if you could tell me within the next two hours, otherwise I may not be able to help until monday12:14
Saviqsturmflut-work, this is awesome, thanks12:23
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
matv1question: how come Document Viewer so much faster at displaying large files than the other pdf viewers in the store?12:58
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g
lotuspsychjematv1: maybe its built with lightweight use in mind12:59
lotuspsychjelike mupdf for ubuntu desktop12:59
kissielpopey, still here? :) I've created follow-up release of  checkbox, now click-review complains only about being unconfined; it's here https://launchpad.net/checkbox-touch/trunk/1.1.1/+download/com.ubuntu.checkbox_1.1.1_multi.click13:00
popeykissiel: ok!13:02
popeykissiel: want it uploaded and published?13:02
kissielpopey, I surely  do :)13:03
popeykissiel: got a changelog of what's new from 1.0.2?13:03
kissielpopey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10939818/13:04
seb128jgdx, thanks13:04
kissielpopey, is this okay?13:04
matv1lotuspsychje yeah maybe  but i feel its more to it  thn that. guess i would have to dive into the code13:05
popeykissiel: done, 1.1.1 is in the store13:06
kissielpopey, \o/13:06
kissielpopey, thank you! Now, the other thing... Is there any piece of info about how to push such unconfined apps?13:07
popeykissiel: i don't understand the question.13:08
kissielpopey, sorry; do we have to do this manually every time?13:08
lotuspsychjematv1: maybe this is a good start? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-docviewer-app13:09
popeymatv1: what other pdf viewers?13:09
kissielpopey, well, ok...13:09
popeymatv1: docviewer is written in C++, there is only one other I know of and it's js.13:10
popeythat may explain it :)13:10
lotuspsychjeyeah i agree pdfviewer lags much more13:10
popeykissiel: we have restrictions on unconfined apps in the store, but feel free to email me whenever you want to upload, or just ping me on irc.13:13
kissielpopey, if it's ok with you, I'll do that :) thanks for the support13:13
=== kissiel is now known as kissiel-lunch
sturmflut-workSaviq, mterry: Can I add anything else to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1421455 ? I thought about profiling the system with perf, but looks like there is no perf for this kernel.13:23
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1421455 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Slow wake up time on physical power button pressed" [Undecided,Incomplete]13:23
sturmflut-workmterry: By the way, according to strace upowerd tries to open a bunch of non-existing files in /sys/devices/platform/battery/power_supply/battery/ every ten seconds on the bq.13:33
mterrysturmflut-work, curious...  :-/13:33
mterrysturmflut-work, might be worth its own bug13:33
sturmflut-workmterry: I filed one, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upower/+bug/145002613:37
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1450026 in upower (Ubuntu) "upowerd regularly tries to open a number of non-existant sysfs files on the bq Aquaris E.45" [Undecided,New]13:37
sturmflut-workArgh, I wrote "E.45"13:37
=== rickspencer3_ is now known as rickspencer3
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=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
kenvandinepopey, what's the url to your click mirror?14:37
popeyfor me, ㋛14:37
popeyfor you, http;//popey.mooo.com/mirror/clicks/14:38
kenvandinepopey, thanks!14:39
kenvandinepopey, what would i do without you :)14:39
popeyprobably setup your own mirror eventually14:39
=== rbasak_ is now known as rbasak
cwayne_that sounds like a lot of work14:44
popeyit's also a lot of space14:44
popeyI need to run fdupes on it to make hard links rather than having duplicated clicks/snaps everywhere14:44
mcphaila click mirror? Do you have lots of apparmor-disrespecting goodies on there?14:45
popeyits stuff that has already hit the store14:45
popeyand only the stuff that is not pay-for14:45
mcphailthat suggests the app ecosystem is quite healthy14:47
popeyas I say, lots of dupes14:47
* mcphail hopes btrfs gets automatic deduplication powers soon14:47
popeymcphail: yeah, this is a btrfs volume14:49
mcphailpopey: aliasing "cp" to "cp --reflink=auto" can help14:50
cyphermoxpopey: seb128: I have the fix for routing wired vs. wifi, I'm testing that right now15:19
* popey hugs cyphermox 15:19
cyphermoxpopey: https://launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/+archive/ubuntu/build-tests/+sourcepub/4972466/+listing-archive-extra15:20
cyphermoxif you want to give it a shot, it should be built soonish15:20
popeyI would _love_ to. thanks15:21
cyphermoxI haven't tested the actual failure case yet (wiating for the build to finish), but it looks like it's using the proper metrics now, so I'm confident15:22
popeycyphermox: I'll let you know :)15:23
SturmFlutmterry: you might be interested in the comment to bug 1421455 I just submitted15:46
ubot5bug 1421455 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Slow wake up time on physical power button pressed" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/142145515:46
mterrySturmFlut, curious15:47
SturmFlutmterry: Well, if I look at all those strange kernel messages from Mediatek drivers, nothing seems curious anymore15:48
SturmFlutmterry: I was thinking about the SD card as a source of problems. I follow linux-mmc and power saving for those things is just broken, it would maybe explain why different users see different delays, but then I realized that the original bug report came from a Nexus 4 and that one has no SD card slot.15:49
SturmFlutmterry: In the end it must be something introduced by Android or Mediatek, because the vanilla kernel apparently does not even accept "on" as a value to be written to /sys/power/state15:51
mterrySturmFlut, well the description for this bug says "This is not so bad on nexus4."  There are other wake/screen problems in Touch, but this specific bug seems to mostly hit the BQ15:51
john-mcaleelypopey, may I ask a random question? What's the lp project for the file manager app15:53
BOHverkilljohn-mcaleely: i think this: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app15:59
john-mcaleelyBOHverkill, that does look right. thanks!16:00
popeyjohn-mcaleely: BOHverkill is correct16:00
BOHverkilljohn-mcaleely: np16:00
popeyincoming bugs?16:00
BOHverkillpopey: ;)16:00
john-mcaleelypopey, not this time. want to point someone at a place to contribute :-)16:00
BOHverkilljohn-mcaleely: for the next time: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers ;)16:01
popeyalso point them to me16:01
* popey puts on his cape and swooshes out16:01
john-mcaleelyBOHverkill, good page. thanks16:02
=== chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk
BOHverkilljohn-mcaleely: np ;)16:03
SturmFlutIs it possible to change the kernel command line of the device? Without breaking too much16:11
SturmFlutmterry: ^^16:12
mterrySturmFlut, I'm not sure how, to be honest16:12
mterryI guess you edit /boot/ stuff...16:12
SturmFlutmterry: Probably by changing either the bootloader settings or the bootloader itself16:12
SturmFlutmterry: /boot is empty on the phone :/16:13
SturmFlutmterry: I'm checking out the krillin kernel code, maybe I can find anything16:17
mterryooph, good luck!  :)16:18
greybackSturmFlut: the "fastboot" tool has a "-c" switch that "overrides kernel commandline" - I'd be careful if I were you though16:22
ogra_SturmFlut, abootimg ...16:25
SturmFlutgreyback, ogra_ : Thanks!16:25
ogra_SturmFlut, hmm, i might be wrong ... seems to not work on krillin16:31
SturmFlutogra_: Yes, I just extracted the boot.img and there is an empty cmdline statement in bootimg.cfg16:33
ogra_SturmFlut, right, but not sure how to get that properly back in place once you changed it16:33
ogra_did you dd it out of the partition on the phone ?16:33
ogra_abootimg can change the commandline in place without extracting btw16:34
SturmFlutogra_: Ah, wait a moment, I have to look around a bit more16:34
SturmFlutogra_: Which partition is it on the phone? /dev/mmcblk0boot0? Can't find it16:39
ogra_ondra, ^^ ?16:39
ogra_ondra, is there a way for SturmFlut to dd the boot.img out of a device partition ?16:40
ondraSturmFlut which one are you looking for? boot image partition?16:40
ondraogra_ SturmFlut $ cat /dev/boot > /cache/boot_backup.img16:40
ondrait will read whole partition, including zeros on the end16:40
ogra_ /dev/BOOT i guess then16:40
SturmFlutondra: My core goal is to pass the "debug" option to the kernel so I can maybe find this stupid power management issue16:41
ondrabut no harm there, it's just 20M16:41
ondraSturmFlut you can then unpack boot image16:41
ondraSturmFlut easiest way to pass kern commands is to update little kernel16:41
SturmFlutondra: Any documentation on that?16:42
ondraSturmFlut sorry it's actually /dev/bootimg16:42
ondraSturmFlut in recovery16:42
ondraSturmFlut hmm probably not16:42
ondraSturmFlut so probably easier for you to play with boot.img16:42
ogra_yeah, once you can dd/cat it to an img abootimg should be easily usable16:43
ogra_(and you dont need to unpack to set the cmdline)16:43
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|lunch
SturmFlutI will hate Google forever for not specifying a proper boot process for Android16:44
=== chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun
SturmFlutogra_, ondra: Okay, I pulled the contents of /dev/bootimg, extracted it and the "cmdline =" in the extracted bootimg.cfg is empty as well. So I checked against the boot.img contained in device-0142302186687e3e48e6987283f6caf5d471a4160f98aa6a3cb7658f96471297.tar.xz (krillin r21 firmware file) and everything is identical.16:48
ogra_SturmFlut, ah, cool16:49
ogra_then you should just be able too use abootimg -u on it16:50
ogra_abootimg -u /path/to/boot.img -c "cmdline=foobar"16:50
ogra_and to unset it again16:51
ogra_abootimg -u /path/to/boot.img -c "cmdline="16:51
ondraSturmFlut yep, it should be identical16:51
SturmFlutondra: But then where does the kernel get its default kernel command line from?16:52
ondraSturmFlut from little kernel16:52
ondraSturmFlut which is /dev/uboot16:53
SturmFlutondra: Ah, I was wondering about this "little kernel" the whole time ;) It's just uBoot16:53
* kissiel is away: break16:53
ondraSturmFlut yep16:54
SturmFlutHow do I recover in the worst case? fastboot and a full reinstall?16:54
SturmFlutondra: How do I write my new boot.img back to the device? Just stuff it in /dev/bootimg again?17:00
SturmFlutondra: How do I write my new boot.img back to the device? Just stuff it in /dev/bootimg again?17:01
ogra_SturmFlut, if you just want to add something the boot.img is the less dangerous option17:02
ogra_SturmFlut, if you just want to add something the boot.img is the less dangerous option17:02
ogra_if you actually want to modify an existing value it gets more tricky17:02
SturmFlutWell, the goal is still to put the kernel in debug mode, just temporary17:03
ogra_yeah, i would use boot.img for that17:03
=== davidbarth is now known as dbarth
SturmFlutogra_: I think there is a misunderstanding. I already used abootimg -u and changed the cmdline value. Now I have a new boot.img file, what do I do with it? Do I dd it back into /dev/bootimg? Or do I use fastboot to flash it?17:05
ogra_i guess both will work17:06
ogra_wait a sec til ondra is back at his place :)17:06
SturmFlutI have to switch trains, see you later maybe17:09
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
ondraSturmFlut just cat it back17:13
ondraSturmFlut cat new-boot.img > /dev/bootimg17:13
AnssiGhi, has anyone tried updating phone system image via 3g?17:17
=== dandrader|lunch is now known as dandrader
Mike100anybody here?17:30
gingermouseI have a bunch of click packages I'd like to install. What's the command for that? pkcon seems to complain about signature verification.17:30
sergiusensgingermouse: add --allow-unauthenticated17:31
ogra_gingermouse, pkcon install-local --allow-untrausted /path/to/click17:31
ogra_sergiusens, you are so snappy already :P17:31
gingermouseThanks sergiusens and ogra17:32
ogra_(--allow-unauthenticated is a snappy option. wont work with click)17:32
* popey notes we lost --allow-untrusted from the /topic :)17:32
popeyoh, it's in #ubuntu-app-devel :)17:32
ogra_popey, wrong channel perhaps ?17:32
* popey walks away from computers for the day17:33
Mike100anyways what;s this channel for , ubuntu smartphones?17:33
popeythis one Mike10017:33
popeyand please don't do the dots thing17:33
* k1l_ sets mode: popey +confused17:33
popeytrue dat17:33
ogra_low beer level ?17:33
popeywine and chilli tonight, and testing network manager :D17:33
gingermouseWhile I have you attentions, does anyone know how to make the X11 apps run on it like Will Cooke was doing? I think you need to add a PPA, but I don't know which one.17:34
popeywillcooke: ^17:34
willcookegingermouse, it's broken right now, we're fixing it17:35
willcookethen the plan is to get it in to the archive so you can apt-get install it17:35
willcookecaveat being it's not ready for general use, so expect further breakage17:35
gingermousewillcooke: I'm okay with breakage. I'm mostly trying to run hexchat since there aren't any IRC clients available.17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashed17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crash17:36
Mike100my ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crashedmy ubuntu crash17:36
willcookegingermouse, the PPA is from mlankhorst in Launchpad, but will be moving soonish17:37
gingermouseAh okies.17:37
willcookeonce you've added the PPA apt-get update and apt-get install xserver-xorg-xmir17:37
willcookethen you can apt-get install X applications17:38
willcooke(bearing in mind you need to make the image writeable and expand its size)17:38
ogra_and that you lose all upgrade support ...17:38
willcookeand then you need a hacky shell script to launch things in the right order17:38
gingermouseIs it this one? https://launchpad.net/~mlankhorst/+archive/ubuntu/ppa17:38
SturmFlutogra_: Okay, writing boot.img back to /dev/bootimg didn't break my device, but it also didn't boot with the new cmdline.17:38
willcookebut it's broken17:38
ogra_it will also break completely at some point, be prepared to re-flash17:39
willcookeit's really not ready yet :)17:39
* ogra_ looks forward to get rid of apt on the images17:39
gingermouseHeh, I totally get that. I did try and get it working earlier by pausing one of your YouTube videos and copying the script/.desktop file17:40
willcookegingermouse, once we've fixed it and it's in the archive then I will post on G+ with proper instructions :)17:40
willcookegingermouse, the .desktop file is fairly generic, it needs to point the EXEC to a shell script which:17:40
willcookelaunches Xmir17:40
ogra_snappy install xmir FTW !17:40
gingermouseAs soon as that happens, I can maybe start using Ubuntu as a daily driver! +D17:41
SturmFlutondra: Sorry for disappearing. Now, how to install my new and updated boot.img on the device? fastboot flash boot?17:41
ogra_SturmFlut, he said you should just cat it back17:41
willcookescript needs to: 1) launch Xmir, 2) wait for it to load, 3) maybe launch an X based WM (eg icewm), 4) launch the X application passing in the display number from 117:41
SturmFlutogra_: Hmmmm, I'll retry. It didn't have any effect the first time. Maybe I screwed up somewhere.17:42
ogra_did you check the boot.img with abootimg -i ?17:42
willcookegingermouse, I'm going EOD now but email me, ping me on G+, ping me on here tomorrow if you need more info17:42
willcooketa ta17:42
gingermousewillcooke: Thanks!17:42
Mike100hello gingermouse17:43
Mike100my keyboard has some issues17:43
Mike100the enter key  stucks sometimes17:43
ondraSturmFlut you can do both cat it back, or fastboot17:44
fredericc38hi !!17:44
SturmFlutogra_: I'll document this once I figure it out completely, this Android stuff is just horrible. As if it would have killed them to just give us UEFI on ARM.17:44
SturmFlutogra_: according to abootimg -i the cmdline is correct.17:45
ondraSturmFlut just fastboot it then17:45
SturmFlutondra: Will do17:46
ogra_SturmFlut, yeah, UEFI or even grub would be so cool17:46
ogra_one day we sell millions and millions of devcies and manufacturers open up the drivers for use that will happen17:46
ogra_in 10 years or so :P17:46
fredericc38I swap to touch since several weeks and I got a problem with crontab and syncevolution. Someone is confident with. thanks17:47
ogra_fredericc38, can you be more detailed ? what did you try, what didnt work exactly etc17:50
ogra_note that cron will only run when the device is not suspended17:51
ogra_it wont wake it up17:52
fredericc38ok thanks manually I can sync with my owncloud server (addressbook and contacts)but when I "crontab -e" my command line "syncevolution owncloud" that's working.17:52
fredericc38ok thanks manually I can sync with my owncloud server (addressbook and contacts)but when I "crontab -e" my command line "syncevolution owncloud" that's not working.17:53
ogra_did you check syslog for errors ?17:53
fredericc38there is no error in syslog.17:53
fredericc38I just can see that contab happen17:54
fredericc38@hourly /usr/bin/syncevolution owncloud17:55
ogra_did you try using a proper format for the time there ... instead of @hourly ?17:56
fredericc38yes.... same thing17:58
fredericc38but in same time I synchronize my picture with rsync and that's working properly.17:58
ogra_and you set the crontab up as the phabelt user ?17:59
utu8ois there a stable version yet? just wondering18:00
ogra_there are phones on slae, yes18:00
utu8othis is made for convertible laptops and desktops too right?18:01
ogra_not yet ...18:01
mcphailfredericc38:  I don't think crontab fires whenever the screen switches off18:01
ogra_in a year or so ...18:01
ogra_currently it is only phones and tablets18:01
utu8ois the there touchscreen and desktop mode or just touchscreen?18:02
ogra_mcphail, fredericc38,  yeah thats what i said above ...18:02
ogra_cron will not wake up the devices18:02
ogra_utu8o, currently only touchscreen ... with focus on phones ...18:02
utu8ooh ok18:02
=== Guest10789 is now known as mibofrar
=== mibofrar is now known as mibofra
ogra_(and specifically the preinstallled phones that are/go on sale)18:03
mcphailogra_: sorry, missed that18:03
=== dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk
mcphailfredericc38: remember all the usual caveats with cron: making sure you use full paths and are executing the commands from the correct directory etc18:04
* mterry is having trouble getting anything to flash onto mako or krillin18:08
mterryanyone else?18:08
SturmFlutogra_: I lost most of my respect for ARM the day I found out that they never specified a standard way to boot a system, and then I lost the little bit that was left when I found out that most parts of an ARM system do not support autoconfiguration and enumeration.18:23
ogra_SturmFlut, well, u-boot is a quasi standard since a while18:26
wxlhey folks, android device manager interacts with frameworks, right? cuz it sure doesn't seem to be able to detect my phone18:29
SturmFlutogra_: a quasi-standard bootloader is no replacement for a proper boot specification and a proper firmware interface. Luckily we are finally getting UEFI and APCI on AArch64, but that wasn't ARMs own idea, other people had to force it onto them. I hate to say it, but Intel got that one right. It is nearly impossible to build an x86 system that won't boot a standard Linux distribution kernel. While it is nearly impossible to build a Linux kernel18:34
SturmFlutthat will boot on more than one ARM SoC.18:34
SturmFlutogra_: That's why you can just put standard Ubuntu on a Windows tablet, but you can't put standard Ubuntu on an Android phone.18:35
fredericc38"<ogra_> mcphail, fredericc38,  yeah thats what i said above ..." but that's working with rsync....(sorry I was at the dinner)18:35
studio_how to use mirscreencast to make a "cast" on my own network?18:36
SturmFlutstudio_: I remember an old e-mail on the mailing list about that, and from what I recall WiFi was not good enough for it in the end, the guy doing it had to attach an USB Ethernet adapter. Or something like that.18:39
SturmFlutstudio_: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg11787.html18:39
SturmFlutstudio_: I think the best solution was https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg11826.html18:41
studio_SturmFlut, i thought i can compare to raspivid, for raspberry and vcl. for exp: raspivid -fps 25 -o - -t 0 -w 600 -h 400 | cvlc --no-inhibit stream:///dev/stdin --sout '#rtp{sdp=rtsp://:8554/}' :demux=h264. but demux seems to be raw or tomething like that?18:41
SturmFlutstudio_: I have no idea. I just remembered the discussion about it, have never used it myself.18:41
studio_SturmFlut, your example is not a live stream18:42
SturmFlutstudio_: It is supposed to be, in the last e-mail I linked to he uses mplayer and calls mirscreencast in a while loop.18:43
studio_that guy is using nc18:43
studio_i'd like to make a broadcast18:44
=== dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader
jcbjoeim getting my nexus 4 soon and im wondering how is the battery life on it with ubuntu-touch18:45
studio_is "mirscreencast" just the name for a capture-tool or can it handle a "cast"?18:46
anpokthe capture tool18:47
=== aaron__ is now known as ahoneybun
studio_anpok, have you ever tried to make a live stream from your device?18:51
anpokiirc there is a problem with the tool right now18:52
anpokat least in vivid18:52
studio_i can't test in the moment, because i am on android right now. i was just reading about miraclecast and mirscreencast.18:54
ogra_studio_, i think you need to wait til the WIFI driver actually supports that mode18:54
ogra_WIFI AP mode and PTP mode will also get you miracast support ... once that landed18:55
studio_ogra_, i think i also have to wait for the "root less X" ;)18:56
ogra_no idea about that one, but currently the WIFI driver will definitely block you18:56
studio_i do not understand, i can dot do something like "mirscreencast -m /var/run/mir_socket" ... | cvlc ... demux=raw?18:58
ogra_the mirscreencast scripts on the ML can surely kind of serve as a workaround hack :)18:58
ogra_though yoou would have to find a solution for sound, i think the guy only did it for video18:59
popeycyphermox: <3 - looks fixed here!19:00
studio_ah, sound is the problem, sorry, i just thought about the video ...19:00
popeygstreamer can send audio over the network19:01
ogra_or bluetooth19:01
ogra_i doubt the script solutiopn is good enough for smoothly streaming movies or some such though19:02
ogra_but try it19:02
studio_bluetooth can send the video in 60fps?19:02
ogra_no, i was talking about audio +19:02
studio_ok :)19:02
popeyyou cant send video smoothly any way you do it19:04
popeymirscreencast on the bq can't capture fast enough19:05
studio_ogra_, for me BT and Audio-Streaming was never working from the bq E4.5 to my Ubuntu Desktop 14.04, is there a how-to?19:05
ogra_dunno, i never streamed to another PC ... it works flawless to BT speackers, my HIFI system and various other BT audio devices19:06
studio_you never tried to a Ubuntu-Desktop?19:07
SturmFlutondra, ogra_: Oh, the joys of vendor kernels. Writing to /dev/bootimg will result in a kernel stack trace on my device. That's why it didn't work.19:10
ogra_lovely :)19:11
studio_hmm, i thought "ubuntu convergence" is the "magic word"?19:11
ogra_studio_, and what would convergence have to do with streaming audio via BT to another machine ?19:11
ogra_yes ?19:12
studio_but it can not19:12
studio_try to stream audio from your bq E4.5 to you Ubuntu-Desktop via bluetooth19:13
ogra_why would i ?19:14
ogra_my desktp has a crappy sound system19:15
ogra_and why would that have anything to do with convergence19:15
ogra_i dont get you, sorry19:15
Elleostudio_: in a convergence usecase the phone *is* the desktop, so you wouldn't typically be streaming to another computer, just to normal bluetooth speakers19:16
Elleostudio_: or alternatively sending all the audio via MHL -> HDMI or somethin19:17
ogra_right, this isnt any "convergence" task ... just normal Bt connectivity19:17
studio_you can't. connect your desktop to your sound-system via toslink and stream from your bq E4.5 to your Ubuntu-Desktop19:17
ogra_(and perhaps a bug ... not sure ... forcus is definitely on streaming to headsets, car systems, HIFI or speakers)19:17
ogra_i'd call streaming to a desktop PC a pretty exotic usecase ... but i'm probably weird19:18
studio_ogra_, streaming audio from a mobile device is not "exotic"19:19
ogra_to a desktop ...19:19
popeyto a chromecast maybe, to a desktop, nuh-uh19:19
studio_to a bt-receiver19:20
ogra_i stream to my HIFI all day ... and also have a small BT speaker i stream to19:20
ogra_and use a BT headset at times19:20
ogra_i have never in my life streamed to a PC19:20
ogra_(via BT that is)19:20
ogra_but file a wishlist bug ...19:21
studio_ogra_, maybe you never streamed audio to a "PC" but where is the different to stream it to a PC which is the BT-Receiver?19:22
ogra_i have no idea, please file a bug19:22
popeyIt does sometimes seem like studio_ comes up with the most exotic, obtuse ways to use devices.19:22
anpokwell... regarding audio streaming..19:23
anpokaudio playback through usb would be really nice19:23
ogra_you mean via DAC ?19:23
studio_popey, i allways ask "exotic" questions. exotic questions are right before time ...19:23
ogra_i fogot about it but wanted to file a bug ages ago that we get the right modules enabled19:24
ogra_anpok, mind doing that ?19:24
anpokfile where?19:24
ogra_(will need pulse profiles too though)19:24
ogra_pmcgowan can then triage it (low/wishlist or so)19:24
anpokoh so you think this is just a matter of module enablement?19:24
anpoki thought we also need pulse audio settings and ui for that19:25
ogra_it is also a matter of pulse19:25
ogra_right ... to work on the pulse side we need the modules first though19:26
ogra_or USB_DAC support builtin ... or so19:26
ogra_i left my DAC at home, perhaps there is even already something enabled19:27
* ogra_ can test next week19:27
anpokok writing it down..19:28
ogra_(or if you have one, wire it up and watch dmesg ... and attach it to the bug)19:28
anpokhm i once plugged an usb head set.. I think alsa detected it..19:29
=== aaron__ is now known as ahoneybun
builditare you for real?!19:29
studio_last question for today, i hope, can UT handle m3u or m3u8 playlists from the internet?19:32
anpokogra_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/145017019:32
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1450170 in Canonical System Image "Support DAC playback through usb" [Undecided,New]19:32
popeystudio_: like streaming audio?19:34
studio_audio "and" video19:35
popeypossibly, if someone wrote an app to find the audio/video stream and passed it to media-hub / mediaplayer19:35
ogra_studio_, no it cant19:35
ogra_i opened a bug for that ...19:35
ogra_(and ths time i *can* blame jhodapp !! hah !)19:36
jhodappogra_, hah, guilty! :)19:36
ogra_bug 140769319:37
ubot5bug 1407693 in Media Hub "media-hub should allow streaming of .m3u8 (apple streaming format) streams" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140769319:37
studio_popey, i do not understand. why the mediaplayer is not able to figure out it is an audio- or video-stream?19:37
jhodappstudio_, that feature (m3u playlists) is coming first...then possibly .m3u8 (http live streaming support) in the future19:38
studio_m3u8 in the future, but what is for now  with m3u?19:38
jhodappnot supported yet but coming19:39
Elleopopey / studio_: I have a half-finished shoutcast app that manually parses the m3u and passes the stream along to media hub which works fine19:39
jhodappElleo, that's cool, soon you'll be able to simply load that playlist via QMediaPlaylist and have media-hub automatically use it for the current tracklist19:40
Elleojhodapp: cool19:40
jhodappby giving it the URL19:40
studio_Elleo, nice, but that is just a Scope for Shoutcast. My question was, how do i, as user, play my own m3u/m3u8 without a Scope, thaz is allways checking my connectivity?19:47
ogra_studio_, you write a scope that does that (by stealing Elleo's code and adjusting it for your use case) ... and upload it to the store19:48
studio_i never write a scope19:48
ogra_then you will have to wait til someone else does it19:49
studio_i need apps, and not web-apps or scopes19:49
ogra_doesnt need to have to be a scope, you can indeed also write an app19:49
studio_why schoult i do that? write xmir for mir19:49
ogra_well, you want functionality that isnt there yet ... for such cases we give you an SDK to easily write an app19:50
ogra_either help yourself or wait ... these are the two options19:50
studio_armhf is working fine on X without Mir, you said you will enable that through a "Rootless X on Mir" ... but now it is not compatible ...19:53
* ogra_ wonbders what that has to do with m3u playlist support 19:53
popey(or pay someone else to do it)19:53
ogra_popey, was that a cheap try for getting extra pay ?19:54
studio_popey, if i "pay" for a bq E4.5, it will be compatible?19:54
popeywith software that doesn't exist? sure. whatever.19:54
ogra_if you find a programmer who wants to do that and you pay him to explicitly write the app for the bq, sure19:54
ogra_(though it would be pointless to restrict an app to a single device ... especially with such an abstract SDK/framework)19:55
ogra_mpt, hey ho ... i recently seeded openvpn intho the images ... i was wondering if you already have any UI work for VPN settings19:56
studio_popey, and ogra_, i never "payed" for a software unter "Ubuntu" if i should pay, then i'll switch to another debian derivate19:56
ogra_studio_, you dont have to pay, you can write it yourself (which was the first thing we suggested to you)19:56
ogra_or you can wait19:57
popeyyou're missing the point completely19:57
ogra_and if you dont want to do either you could also pay someone ...19:57
popey1) wait for software, 2) write software, 3) pay someone else to write software, 4) convince (with no payment) someone else to write software, 5) walk away19:57
popeythose are pretty much your options19:57
studio_popey, ogra_ said "wait" so why i am missing the point?19:58
ogra_wow, you extended the list even !19:58
popeyyou missed the point because you implied that you _have_ to pay19:58
popeyi never said you have to pay19:58
popeyjust that it's an option19:58
ogra_studio_, no, i said "write" ... wait is just the other option :)19:58
studio_ogra_, it was your idea to use mir, or not?19:59
ogra_for m3u playlists ... nah, i dont think Mir would work for that19:59
studio_no, i mean to use Mir (Canonical), that in the moment no x-app is useable under mir20:00
ogra_no, that wasnt my decision20:01
ogra_but if we wouldnt have switched to Mir we would have switched to wayland (like everyone else will soon) ...20:01
studio_not your personal, sorry, i mean the company20:01
ogra_Xorg is dead20:01
studio_if xorg is dead, why wayland support X ?20:02
ogra_(or as bad as Mir... however you want to put it, both are not done yet)20:05
studio_done yet, sorry i do not understand, the blueprints are from 2013, and it is still not "done"?20:09
ogra_it took years to write Xorg ... do you expect the replacements (like Mir or Wayland) will be faster ?20:10
studio_ogra_, no, i am just a dump "user"20:11
ogra_not sure what you mean by that20:11
ogra_running X apps isnt 100% done in either Mir or Wayland yet ... which is the reason they are not the default on any desktop yet20:12
studio_User means, why it is not working on "this" os, but it is working on "that" os ...20:12
ogra_can you point to that particular OS where Mir or Wayland are the default and suppport X apps ?20:13
ogra_to my konledge such a thing doesnt exist yet20:13
popeySee also, the answer we've given repeatedly for about a month now. It's not finished.20:14
ogra_once that is finished it will become default on desktop20:15
studio_ogra_, i am "allways" using "ubuntu" since 12.04. I have seen, that "ubuntu-15.04-desktop-amd64.iso" isn't the same as "Ubuntu Next". On Ubuntu 12.04 or 14.04 i was able to choose my desktop, for exp. xfce. but what on Ubuntu-Next? Is it the same Windows8?20:18
ogra_no, it will be like todays desktop (or similar) once it is done20:19
ogra_it is an exprerimental image for developers so they have a base to work with when i.e.  implementing support for X apps20:19
studio_ogra_, i hate Unity, Unity is not my Desktop!20:20
ogra_i cant help you then ...20:20
ogra_desktop next is the next unity desktop20:20
ogra_or will be ...20:20
studio_so ubuntu is switching to ms-windows20:20
ogra_ubuntu isnt switching to anything ... the desktop wont change much to how it looks and feels today20:21
mterryAre there any powerd / threading experts around?  I *think* I see a bug, but I don't trust myself20:21
studio_ogra_, how to change this unity-desktop on the bq phone?20:22
mterrybug 145001720:22
ubot5bug 1450017 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "Sometimes resuming leaves only a black lit screen, no unity8" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145001720:22
ogra_studio_, not at all ... it is a phone20:22
mterry(specifically my comments)20:22
ogra_it isnt a desktop ... it is that simple20:22
studio_ogra_, why you allways say "it is a phone"? it is not, it is ubuntu!20:23
ogra_it is an ubuntu phone ...20:24
ogra_not an ubuntu desktop20:24
studio_no, it is ubuntu20:24
popeyoh jeez20:24
studio_what is ubuntu-desktop on arm?20:24
popeya task20:25
ogra_no idea20:25
ogra_i dont think we provide ubuntu-desktop on arm anymore20:25
popeystudio_: this line of grilling isn't winning you any friends you know?20:25
popeyogra_: ubuntu mate has a rpi2 edition :)20:25
ogra_that has been dropped when we stopped supporteing the panda board two years ago20:25
ogra_popey, yeah20:25
popeyit flies :)20:25
ogra_i would guess it flies20:25
studio_i have seen, that ut is also available for the rpi, right?20:25
ubot5You can find the full list of devices, official images, community images, and works in progress at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices20:26
ogra_studio_, so there is an ubuntu mate desktop for arm, talk to the mate people20:26
popeythe supported devices are in that list20:26
studio_ogra_, where are the differents between ubuntu touch, ubuntu mate and ubuntu next?20:28
popeystudio_: what's your point?20:30
ogra_studio_, we just explained the difference ... ubuntu touch ... is essentially ubuntu for phones ... (teh touch term will soon die) ... ubuntu next is an experimental version of the upcoming desktop for developers20:30
ogra_and mate is a community flavour ... you have to ask the maintainers20:30
studio_ogra_, sorry, i can't see diffences between Ubuntu-Touch an Ubuntu-Next20:31
popeyUbuntu Next has no Android container.20:31
popeybecause it's currently on desktops, where that's not required20:32
ogra_studio_, "touch" is ubuntu for phones ....20:32
popeybut next and touch are similar, built from similar codebases20:32
ogra_ubuntu-next will become the next desktop once it is done ... in a year or so20:32
studio_popey, is there a "list" what devices supports "Ubuntu-Next"?20:34
ogra_amd64 machines only as far as i know20:34
popeywell, yes. "Computers with Intel GPUs"20:34
studio_so for what is ubuntu next?20:34
popeya demo / preview20:34
ogra_64 bit intel ... what the developers that work on it use20:35
studio_hmm, i am right faster on my desktops with a mouse on the normal desktop than on ubuntu next?!20:36
ogra_ubuntu next isnt a thing to use20:36
ogra_so that question is moot20:37
k1lstudio_: ubuntu-next is a prototype. it is MIR + unity8. but its not for daily use.20:37
ogra_ask it again in 12 months20:37
studio_ogra_, how to use "Next" without a mouse?20:37
ogra_you dont use it ... very simple20:37
ogra_it is not designed for usage20:38
ogra_it is designed as a base for the desktop developers to work on20:38
ogra_in a year from now it will be ready for using it ...20:38
ogra_(probably a bit earlier ... )20:38
studio_ogra_, i have seen the videos on youtube, a mouse is quit faster, and i can switch the desktops with the mouse20:39
ogra_not sure what you mean20:39
ogra_my mouse is as fast on one desktop as it is on the other ... if you want it to move faster, adjust the mouse settings20:40
studio_how to switch the desktops on ubuntu-next?20:40
popeyit doesn't have multiple desktops20:40
ogra_i doubt you can20:40
ogra_since it is not for users at all20:40
popeybecause... altogether now...20:40
popey"It's not finished yet"20:40
ogra_it is an experimental thing for developers to have a base to work on20:41
ogra_if you are a developer and want to contribute patches, use it and write your patches on it20:41
ogra_every question beyond this use case i will not answer anymore from now on ...20:41
jgdxabeato, bug #1426923 — thank you!20:41
ubot5bug 1426923 in wpasupplicant (Ubuntu) "Allow ubuntu-system-settings to set a device's firmware" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/142692320:41
studio_i hope it will just be an "experimental thing".20:41
popeystudio_: no, as he said, when finished it will be the default desktop20:42
ogra_in a year it will be the defaul tubuntu desktop20:42
abeatojgdx, np, we are trying to get hotspot in arale here in Austin ;)20:42
studio_popey. no, "please"20:42
studio_popey, i'll never switch between my desktops?20:43
popeyswitch workspaces?20:44
popeyor switch desktop environments?20:44
Elleostudio_: no one's going to force you to use it, it'll just be the default, like unity7 already is20:44
studio_Elleo, Windows and Android only can show one desktop, also no multible windows at the same time. i thought it is different on Ubuntu-Touch?20:46
popeyWorkspaces, we call them workspaces.20:46
popeystudio_: Listen.20:46
popeyIt's not finished.20:46
popeyHow many times must we say this?20:46
jgdxabeato, fun! :) Let me know how it goes.20:46
ogra_popey, you repeat yourself :P20:47
k1lstudio_: please start reading what was answered you several times now. if you keep that attitude that you ask over and over again because you dont like the answer we need to ban you again because that is not the behaviour we want to see from our users.20:47
abeatojgdx, we'll do :)20:47
Elleostudio_: I'm not sure I understand the question? unity8 can show multiple windows when its in windowed mode20:48
studio_popey, as i said, i am asking for "exotic" questions. I am not logging the irc-cannel, just for the future ...20:48
ogra_studio_, irclogs.ubuntu.com ... you dont need to log it, we do that for you20:49
popeystudio_: I've said it 3 times today.20:49
popeystudio_: whether you log or not is irrelavent.20:49
popeystudio_: you're ignoring my answers, and that's just plain rude.20:49
studio_ogra_, log is not working, there are missing questions and answers!20:50
popeyWe have answered every single question you asked.20:50
popeyMultiple times.20:50
popeyWe spend more time helping you than any other single individual in this channel.20:50
ogra_and one ...20:50
popeyYou are a _massive_ time sink.20:51
popeyAnd you didn't even have the courtesty to buy the damn phone! :D20:51
studio_popey, i am talking about: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/20:51
* mcphail splutters through his nose20:51
* ogra_ hands mcphail a napkin20:52
k1lstudio_: there is a delay on the logging bot. its updated every hour.20:52
studio_k1l, maybe, but there are still missing answers to some questions ...20:53
popeyNo. Just answers you don't like.20:53
k1lstudio_: no. there are no missing answers. there are only answers you dont like.20:53
k1lthat is a huge difference.20:53
studio_popey, i am not talking about me ...20:53
popeywhich users?20:54
popeyname one20:54
studio_read offline20:54
k1lso stop beeing rude just because its not running the way you want it to. you could help making it better, but you just keep wasting time of the devs.20:54
popeystudio_: if you think we could improve documentation for other users, then we'd welcome help on that.20:54
k1lso if you have a question: ask once, and live with the answer.20:54
studio_k1l, please read the offline log. sometimes it makes no sense, because answers are missing and pplz say "ok" without explenation ...20:56
popeystudio_: nobody reads those irc logs.20:56
popeyother than strange people who like to stalk20:56
popeyor people who want to go back and find something specific from a channel they were in on a particular day20:57
ogra_well, google reads them ...20:57
ogra_so you can look up past answers ...20:57
popeythe poor guy at google who has to sit and index all of irc20:57
popeyi pity them20:57
ogra_i think it is more than one though20:57
ogra_more like 3-420:57
ogra_google can afford that, they are a rich company20:58
studio_popey, i read them, because i "thing" i missed something. You store them, to trell pplz their mistake!20:58
k1lstudio_: the logbot logs what is written in here. if there is something missing that might be due to irc network issues but is not intended. but lets focus on ubuntu-touch in here. thanks21:00
studio_k1l. np21:00
popey\o/ de-duped my click mirror, disk space usage is down from 140G to 3.2G21:00
mcphailpopey: what did you use to de-dupe?21:01
ogra_popey, nice, we already have 3.2G of click ?21:01
popey3.2 cumulatively21:01
popeyclicks and snaps21:01
popeyincludes all past versions of apps21:01
popeymcphail: used a little python script I found http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/ANDK/Perl-Repository-APC-2.002/eg/trimtrees.pl21:02
popeyworks brilliantly21:02
ogra_you should fix the suffix though21:02
ogra_unless it is a polish python script ;)21:02
popeyoh, i said python21:03
popeyi meant perl21:03
Tassadarpolish python script, lol21:03
* ogra_ got that but couldnt resist teasing you 21:03
popeythats all it spat out21:03
popeyconverts dupes into hard links21:03
ogra_ah, like fdupes we use in iimage builds21:04
mcphailpopey: looks neat. I'll bookmark that one21:04
k1lso all the apps are just copy&paste'ed? :)21:04
mcphailpopey: good to get my photos and music directories sorted out21:04
popeysome are :)21:05
mcphailbit of a spike when krillin released21:06
k1luh nice, i like plots :)21:06
ogra_will be curious to see if there will be spikes for the next phones21:06
* mcphail needs to get to work on some apps21:06
popeythere was a drop a few days ago because i removed a bunch of apps :)21:07
ogra_everyone should work on apps :)21:07
popeyor scopes :)21:07
ogra_yeah yeah ... or scopes21:07
mcphailI'm still not loving scopes21:07
* ogra_ knows that cwayne_ sits behind him ... 21:07
popeyogra_: my flo is stuck at the google logo :S21:10
popeyany suggestions what i can do?21:10
Tassadarkill it with fire!21:11
Tassadaror try to get to bootloader, if that's more your style, hold power until it reboots and then power+volume down21:12
cwayne_mcphail, any suggestions to make them better?21:12
popeythen re-flash?21:12
Tassadarprobably, assuming you can't get adb while on that google screen21:13
Tassadarand hope this isn't your case http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/04/19/reports-suggest-2013-nexus-7-units-are-failing-at-an-alarming-rate-not-likely-a-result-of-firmware-updates/ (tl;dr: lots of flos are getting bricked because the emmc just dies due to wear)21:13
popeyi thought that was a nexus 7 2012 thing21:14
popeyoh, 201321:14
Tassadar2012 had just slow emmc because the trim was kinda broken21:15
popeycan't flash it from bootloader.21:15
Tassadarand, well, also slow in general, but then slower21:15
* popey reboots to recovery21:15
popeymy 2012 is sat on my desk as a second screen21:15
popeyonly ever runs irssinotifier and that's it21:15
Tassadarmine is an youtube machine21:15
Tassadar*a youtube machine?21:15
* popey flashes flo21:15
Tassadaran looks weird21:15
popeyy is a funny "vowel"21:16
popeyespecially as the "a" is often pronounced "aye" so "ayootoob" is easier to say than "an yootoob"21:16
TassadarI'm kinda surprised my flo didn't die yet (knocks on the wood), considering how many OSes I install on it21:18
mcphailcwayne_: I think it would be good to have more visual feedback on what has happened if a scope doesn't update properly. And I'm not sure if a failure in one part of the scope causes failure elsewhere: in the Today scope my calendar appointments don't show if the news/weather doesn't load. I don't understand why that should be the case21:20
mcphailcwayne_: it is also difficult to swipe between scopes if there are a lot of swipeable panels on the scope21:22
popeyalso the date doesn't dynamically update21:23
mcphailthat too :)21:23
popeybugs welcome ㋛21:23
mcphailpopey: i think these things have already been reported...21:23
cwayne_mcphail, the vents not loading if weather doesn't hasn't been21:24
cwayne_first I'm hearing of that specifically21:24
cwayne_and that certainly should not happen :(21:24
mcphailcwayne_: mentioned in bug 144878321:25
ubot5bug 1448783 in Today Scope "Date not updating, sunrise and sunset times not displaying, other info not loading" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/144878321:25
cwayne_oh, look at that21:25
* cwayne_ is sprint-tired21:25
mcphailha :)21:26
* mcphail doesn't like to sound as if he is moaning. These are minor irritations in a great system21:26
ogra_mandel, http://paste.ubuntu.com/10945289/21:26
ogra_mandel, rather http://paste.ubuntu.com/10945292/21:27
cwayne_mcphail, it doesn't come off as moaning at all, in fact, I appreciate seeing where we're failing (specifically with scopes) so that we can try and fix them :)21:29
cwayne_mcphail, are you seeing those bugs right now?21:30
mcphailcwayne_: I think the "Today" scope is particularly important because it is the "front page" on the phone21:30
mcphailcwayne_: from time to time I'm seeing them21:30
popeyi woke my phone up and the date was 3 days out21:30
cwayne_popey, testing out the fix for that today21:31
jcbjoepopey: dod you have a n4 with ubuntu-touch on it ? and if so do you use it as a daily driver21:31
cwayne_undocumented stuff ftw21:31
cwayne_mcphail, next time you see that happen, could you please go into settings, disable the holidays scope, and try a refresh?21:31
mcphailcwayne_: will do, but a refresh usually cures it anyway21:32
cwayne_well i suppose that's kind of good..21:32
mcphailcwayne_: I have been wondering if it loads more consistently if I have opened the calendar app on that boot21:33
cwayne_mcphail, hm, it *shouldnt* matter21:33
mcphailcwayne_: but that doesn't seem to be a 100% correlation21:33
mcphailcwayne_: I sometime pull to refresh a few times with no appointments showing. OPen calendar. Pull to refresh. *Bingo*21:34
mcphailcwayne_: may just be luck21:34
cwayne_mcphail, hm, and everything after events is blocked until events is shown?21:34
jcbjoeor anyone else .. does the n4 get good battery with ubuntu-touch21:34
mcphailcwayne_: yes21:34
cwayne_kyleN, ^ btw21:35
mcphailcwayne_: usually when one bit fails it all fails. The only exception is the sunrise/sunset which can fail independently21:35
cwayne_i swear we've fixed that bug like 15 times21:36
cwayne_but it keeps coming back :(21:36
cwayne_ssweeny, kyleN ^21:36
cwayne_tl;dr when a child's failing in today, nothing after it's loading21:36
ogra_jcbjoe, i guess it gets reasonable battery ... surely not as good as the bq phone with its average of 3-4 days though21:36
ssweenyi thought that was fixed21:37
ogra_the N4 is our test infrastructure device, but it doesnt get particular performance improvement love etc ...21:37
ogra_so it will likely be on an android level regarding battery life21:38
ogra_but not as good as it would be with proper optimization21:38
mcphailcwayne_: my phone is often used in difficult netwrok conditions. I may be an edge-case for scope loading21:38
cwayne_mcphail, well in that case we should be handling the edge cases better :)21:41
cwayne_ssweeny, yeah, i did too21:41
mcphailcwayne_: :)21:42
pascaltuxte français ?21:49
pascaltuxubuntu-fr-touch isolé OK?21:50
popeyreflashed my flo and it's still only booting to the google logo21:56
popeyi think vivid-proposed is broken for flo21:56
ogra_popey, jhodapp sits next to me and has it working fine21:59
jhodapppopey, I updated my flo to the latest image this morning21:59
jhodapppopey, what image #?21:59
popeyi just flashed it with 186 from ubuntu-touch/vivid-proposed22:01
* popey needs sleep, will play more in the morning22:02
jhodapppopey, that explains it, I'm using 18522:34
jhodapppopey, 186 may in fact be bad22:34
Dragonkeepertheres a problem with browser on 15.04 when i click on multi selection drop menus the browser force closes23:37

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