| zmoylan-pi | com.farnell.ie would be so... so... american... :-P | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| shauno | I think it should be com.ie.farnell, but that ship has sailed | 01:38 |
| Azelphur | http://pastebin.com/BBgutCEb wtf? | 02:08 |
| daftykins | it's a trap! | 02:08 |
| Azelphur | never thought I'd see such a daft error on Linux lol | 02:08 |
| shauno | heh, "danger will robinson, danger!" | 02:10 |
| daftykins | someone's replaced your 'cd' with a trick one | 02:10 |
| Azelphur | don't think so, it works fine before and after that | 02:11 |
| penguin42 | oh that's impressive | 02:11 |
| shauno | or it's failed to write to ~/.bash_history | 02:11 |
| Azelphur | I see | 02:11 |
| daftykins | i found my nano_history owned by root today 0o | 02:12 |
| zmoylan-pi | type something nice for all the north korean hackers? :-) | 02:25 |
| === zmoylan-1i is now known as zmoylan-pi | ||
| zmoylan-pi | happy birds tweeting outside my window... probably leeching off my wifi... :-) | 04:29 |
| mappps | ;] | 05:32 |
| brobostigon | morning boys and girls. | 08:40 |
| foobarry | 5h37 of deep sleep :D | 08:54 |
| foobarry | allegedly | 08:54 |
| foobarry | 8h of sleep | 08:54 |
| TheProphet[S] | Hi all, anyone else having problems logging into graphical mode due to systemd? I'm referring to the bug "starting version 219" | 10:14 |
| TheProphet[S] | Bug #1432171 | 10:15 |
| lubotu3 | bug 1432171 in systemd (Ubuntu) "[udev] Shows "starting version 219" boot message even with "quiet"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1432171 | 10:15 |
| ali1234 | "starting version 219" is the very first thing systemd prints | 10:16 |
| ali1234 | just because it is also the last thing you see does not mean systemd is the problem | 10:16 |
| TheProphet[S] | Ok, it's not my assessment, it's what cro said in comment #17 | 10:17 |
| TheProphet[S] | He says that by going back to upstart everything works fine | 10:18 |
| TheProphet[S] | His solutions are: " Either replace the display manager startup scripts to work with `systemd`, or remove `systemd` and replace it with `upstart-sys`" | 10:19 |
| TheProphet[S] | Now I can't even see the tty properly | 10:33 |
| AndChat|336756 | Can't see anything now, I can still ssh lickily | 10:39 |
| TheProphet[S] | Should I just purge xorg and nvidia drivers and try to start from scratch? Is that even the right way to start from scratch short of formatting? | 10:45 |
| TheProphet[S] | This graphical problems I'm having are a nightmare | 11:27 |
| mrindeed | help, my computer doesnt lock and i want to be the hibernate which i enabled to be remove from the menu | 12:05 |
| mrindeed | help, my computer doesnt lock | 12:21 |
| StevenR | anyone else running xubuntu? | 13:55 |
| StevenR | I've noticed that when I go to shutdown my laptop, if I click cancel, it still shuts down. | 13:56 |
| zmoylan-pi | o/ | 13:56 |
| zmoylan-pi | just clicked cancel... ::waits:: | 13:57 |
| zmoylan-pi | one hippopotamus... two hippopotamus... three hippopotamus... | 13:59 |
| zmoylan-pi | taps spot where i'd have a wrist watch if i wore one... | 14:00 |
| zmoylan-pi | nope, not happening here sorry... | 14:00 |
| zmoylan-pi | same for logout, other options? | 14:01 |
| ali1234 | StevenR: that's odd, can you report it please | 14:02 |
| ali1234 | where exactly did you click on cancel? | 14:02 |
| ali1234 | also i assume 15.04 | 14:02 |
| ali1234 | trying it in a vm | 14:03 |
| ali1234 | doesn't seem to do it here | 14:04 |
| zmoylan-pi | touchscreen or mouse/trackpad? | 14:05 |
| ali1234 | doesn't do it on the login screen either (it has a different ui) | 14:06 |
| brobostigon | do we have an xmpp/jabber client for ubuntu touch? | 14:07 |
| StevenR | ali1234: using the latest LTS | 14:08 |
| StevenR | ok. Can no longer replicate it. hmmph. | 14:09 |
| ali1234 | where exactly did you click cancel? | 14:10 |
| ali1234 | there's multiple ways to shutdown the computer | 14:10 |
| zmoylan-pi | http://catb.org/jargon/html/D/dancing-frog.html :-) | 14:11 |
| StevenR | ali1234: I click the little power logo on the bar, select shutdown, hit cancel, the computer shuts down. At least, that's what happened. Doesn't happen now. | 14:11 |
| StevenR | ali1234: the little logo has other options, like about this computer | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | on the bar or on the start menu? | 14:12 |
| StevenR | on the bar | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | wait, latest LTS? so 14.04? | 14:12 |
| StevenR | yup | 14:12 |
| ali1234 | okay i am looking at the wrong version then | 14:13 |
| ali1234 | i don't have a vanilla 14.04 | 14:13 |
| * zmoylan-pi just checked... is on 14.04 my kitchen laptop | 14:15 | |
| ali1234 | i can't see any similar reports | 14:18 |
| SuperEngineer | if one switches channel and one sees... | 14:25 |
| SuperEngineer | ali1234> on the bar or on the start menu? | 14:25 |
| SuperEngineer | <StevenR> on the bar | 14:25 |
| SuperEngineer | ...one does tend to laugh | 14:25 |
| ali1234 | xubuntu has a start menu... | 14:25 |
| SuperEngineer | [so do many otther other distros, I was reading "bar" as "pub", much better for the brain] | 14:27 |
| SuperEngineer | Looking at the /topic I see the beer train [RAT] is still prominent... that must be one one heck of a hangover! | 15:18 |
| * SuperEngineer is jealous | 15:20 | |
| ali1234 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=V-pxI8PlY0o#t=1080 | 16:16 |
| ali1234 | "proactive suggestions" | 16:16 |
| ali1234 | "help the user find value in the store" | 16:17 |
| ali1234 | "beautiful pictures" | 16:17 |
| ali1234 | no, adverts, adverts, adverts... everywhere | 16:17 |
| zmoylan-pi | so buy the hardwarem pay for a commercial os and get stuffed with ads... | 16:26 |
| zmoylan-pi | hmmmmm..... how about no | 16:26 |
| zmoylan-pi | wow the lag on that stylus sucks | 16:30 |
| ali1234 | does anyone know of a normal PC case like this: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/4-bay-25-qnap-ts-451s-nas-solution-with-intel-celeron-dual-core-cpu-1gb-ram-sata-6gb-s-2x-gigabit-la | 16:31 |
| ali1234 | those are 2.5" bays | 16:31 |
| mappps | so cold | 16:31 |
| mappps | 25c | 16:31 |
| mappps | ;/ | 16:31 |
| penguin42 | 9c :-( | 17:25 |
| mattcarver | Hello there, is it possible to get a quick hand configuring my synaptics touchpad with Ubuntu 15.04 | 17:28 |
| mattcarver | I would rather appreciate it | 17:29 |
| knightwise | mornin peeps | 17:52 |
| directhex | ali1234: a PC case with multiple hotswap 2.5" bays? | 18:24 |
| ali1234 | which is the same size as that one, yes | 18:24 |
| ali1234 | same form factor, but a standard PC that I can install whatever i want on | 18:25 |
| directhex | er... can't think of anything like that from any of the big players in cases | 18:26 |
| ali1234 | and it doesn't have to be hotswap, just front accessible | 18:26 |
| OerHeks | nice, 4 x 2.5" in 5.25" space http://www.mypccase.com/icydotomb4x2.html | 18:26 |
| ali1234 | yeah, seen those. so then i'd just need a case with 1x 5.25" bay and nothing else | 18:26 |
| OerHeks | Not sure you can hotswap in linux though | 18:27 |
| ali1234 | you can | 18:27 |
| directhex | okay, THAT i can find you | 18:27 |
| directhex | the smallest possible case with a 5.25" external bay? | 18:27 |
| ali1234 | i'm interested... | 18:27 |
| directhex | mATX okay, or you want ITX? | 18:28 |
| ali1234 | whichever has the widest selection of motherboards available i guess | 18:29 |
| ali1234 | whichever is most "standard" | 18:29 |
| directhex | mATX by a mile, but mATX is much larger | 18:29 |
| directhex | mini-ITX is 17x17cm, mATX is up to 24x24cm | 18:30 |
| ali1234 | what about NUC? | 18:30 |
| directhex | nobody's going to put a 3.5" bay on a NUC | 18:31 |
| directhex | and the motherboard in a nuc isn't something you get control over | 18:31 |
| ali1234 | :( | 18:31 |
| directhex | there are a *limited* number of has-a-cpu-socket mini-ITX boards | 18:31 |
| directhex | and all micro-ATX boards do | 18:31 |
| directhex | but let's take http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0788.html as an example case | 18:32 |
| directhex | plus a motherboard from http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/ITX_Motherboards.html and the enclosure suggested by OerHeks | 18:32 |
| directhex | or http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0874.html (available in a range of colours) | 18:34 |
| directhex | or http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_0849.html | 18:34 |
| directhex | most mini-ITX cases use laptop slimline optical drives, if any | 18:34 |
| ali1234 | i'm going to want something that runs cool and silent too | 18:35 |
| directhex | how about a pony? | 18:35 |
| ali1234 | i don't want any optical drive | 18:35 |
| directhex | http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_55245.html - passive cooling | 18:36 |
| directhex | ali1234: why do you think these cases have any 5.25" bays? just because you're looking to put 4x 2.5" bays in there, doesn't mean that's not why those cases have a 5.25" bay | 18:36 |
| ali1234 | because they are designed for HTPCs | 18:37 |
| directhex | right | 18:37 |
| ali1234 | i want to build a silent NAS with SSDs that can also run mythtv | 18:38 |
| ali1234 | (backend not frontend) | 18:38 |
| directhex | okay. do it. i gave you three possible cases, and an array of motherboards | 18:39 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: You can get the same CPUs as the NUCs on full size boards | 18:42 |
| directhex | yeah, that works too | 18:43 |
| directhex | you'll need to spend the time checking clearance heights for cases vs coolers | 18:43 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Well, the passive ones you suggested are good - I've got the older MSI c834 | 18:44 |
| penguin42 | oops, c847 | 18:44 |
| directhex | i am on an MSI kick right now, due to the "Linux out of the box" guarantees | 18:44 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Well, in the end it's pretty much an Intel chip slapped on the board - not much else there | 18:45 |
| directhex | penguin42: ethernet? wifi? vaguely non-broken firmware? | 18:45 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Yes (RTL), no, vaguely | 18:46 |
| directhex | penguin42: i mean in general | 18:46 |
| directhex | penguin42: if i buy a gigabyte & the firmware has "boot windows & only windows" breakage, their tech support people will tell me to take a flying leap | 18:46 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Really it has that kind of breakage? | 18:47 |
| directhex | penguin42: such breakages exist | 18:48 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Yeh, but they are rare and I've found firmware screwups on pretty much everything. TBH the firmware in the MSI doesn't do that much for me, it works but I had some startup problems when I first got it that I'd guess at firmware | 18:49 |
| directhex | http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html | 18:49 |
| penguin42 | yeh, I remember that one | 18:49 |
| directhex | also, NUCs had the same issue in the shipping firmware | 18:50 |
| directhex | had to update to $latest to boot non-windows | 18:51 |
| penguin42 | that does suck, I expect more from Intel, but was it a general non-windows or was it just a screwup? | 18:53 |
| penguin42 | that's very different from that Lenovo one | 18:53 |
| directhex | in 99.9% of cases, it's screwups | 18:53 |
| directhex | even the lenovo one was a screwup | 18:53 |
| directhex | we have 40 years of bad BIOS bugs, and the workarounds/fixes to them. we only have a few years of bad UEFI bugs, and the workarounds/fixes to them | 18:53 |
| penguin42 | yeh but that was a specific string compare screwup, as opposed to say a device setup that doesn't work with some kernels | 18:53 |
| directhex | basically, firmware developers are totally terrible at their jobs | 18:54 |
| penguin42 | I agree on that | 18:54 |
| penguin42 | my main desktop I have to pass a kernel parameter to get modern kernels to boot on it because of some interrupt remapping kernel | 18:54 |
| directhex | the NUC it was also a string compare error iirc | 18:54 |
| ali1234 | maybe i should just buy the QNAP and use their virtualization thing | 18:54 |
| directhex | i.e. it was hardcoded to only boot Windows Boot Manager from the fixed disk | 18:54 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Ah ok, thats dumb | 18:55 |
| directhex | so it would install, but not boot, linuxes (linuxorum?) in EFI mode. fine with BIOS emulation | 18:56 |
| penguin42 | directhex: The EFI boot process isn't exactly simple | 18:58 |
| directhex | yeah... but the BIOS one is total nonsense in 2015 | 18:59 |
| directhex | "hello, i am an 8088, i will now boot 16-bit 8088 machine code from the first 448 bytes of the first ATA device on the first ISA bus" | 19:00 |
| penguin42 | yeh, technology | 19:00 |
| MartijnVdS | directhex: ATA drive? Hah! | 19:02 |
| penguin42 | directhex: It's all actually a lot scarier than that; things like figuring out how many CPUs you've got involves reading values from the RTC | 19:02 |
| penguin42 | all insane | 19:02 |
| penguin42 | all reasonable bits of evolution at the time | 19:02 |
| penguin42 | DOS mode FP exceptions, A20 lines etc etc | 19:03 |
| directhex | my 6-core 64-bit Haswell-EP is still also an 8088, just in case I want to boot it in the manner of my ancestors | 19:03 |
| directhex | er, Haswell-E. Haswell-EP is xeon | 19:04 |
| penguin42 | yep | 19:04 |
| directhex | i expect that to go away, with windows 10 basically killing CSM | 19:05 |
| penguin42 | directhex: It depends, if they still have to support it working in VMs they might keep the hardware | 19:06 |
| directhex | penguin42: well Windows 10 logo certified hardware basically won't have it | 19:07 |
| penguin42 | directhex: 'wont have it' - you mean it wont have bios compatible boot ? | 19:07 |
| directhex | yup | 19:08 |
| penguin42 | right, that's just the bios module | 19:09 |
| === m0nkey__ is now known as m0nkey_ | ||
| ali1234 | what exactly is the reason that xeons exist? | 19:46 |
| ali1234 | ECC support? | 19:46 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: ECC, and multisocket on some of them | 19:46 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: more cores per package, ECC, Registered, more money per customer? | 19:46 |
| directhex | ali1234: reasons already given. multi-socket, ECC, more cache, more cores | 22:14 |
| directhex | my board takes an 18-core chip | 22:14 |
| penguin42 | directhex: What board is that? | 22:15 |
| directhex | penguin42: an X99 board. | 22:15 |
| penguin42 | and it lets you take the E5- series Xeons? | 22:18 |
| directhex | yes | 22:18 |
| directhex | my old PC would take xeons too. if it can't take a xeon, it's for plebs! | 22:20 |
| penguin42 | interesting | 22:20 |
| directhex | when intel started doing core i3/5/7, i7 was "basically a xeon", with the i7-9xx range. but people moaned about price, and they shipped the "slightly faster i5" series, the "i7-8xx". it's continued to this day - there's "i'm not a xeon, honest" i7's, and "don't look too closely, or you'll see i'm an i5" i7's | 22:28 |
| directhex | so socket 1366 was used for i7 and uniprocessor xeon; 2011 was used for i7 and uniprocessor xeon; 2011-3 is used for i7 and uniprocessor xeon | 22:30 |
| penguin42 | but aren't the 18 processor beasts multisocket only with different busses (CSI?) | 22:31 |
| directhex | X58, X79 and X99 (the relevant chipsets for the above sockets) use the same bus as xeon. hence supporting xeons :p | 22:34 |
| directhex | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_X99 | 22:35 |
| penguin42 | directhex: What's confusing me is that shows DMI2.0 as the interface from the Xeon, where as I thought Xeons used QuickPath | 22:38 |
| * penguin42 is just reading http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/xeon-e5-v3-datasheet-vol-1.pdf | 22:38 | |
| penguin42 | ah, it has both | 22:40 |
| directhex | QPI for communication between sockets | 22:41 |
| directhex | DMI for communication to motherboard chipset | 22:42 |
| directhex | my old X58 system was QPI for both | 22:42 |
| directhex | well, except for being uniproc | 22:42 |
| directhex | but still, QPI for the chipset comms | 22:42 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Interesting, I hadn't realised this | 22:42 |
| * penguin42 observes from that doc that 'Enable Safe Mode boot' and 'Enable Intel Trusted Execution Technology Agent' are pins on the chip | 22:43 | |
| ali1234 | they should just make one CPU, it would be so much easier | 22:48 |
| penguin42 | ah, the E7's still have a different socket | 22:51 |
| penguin42 | hmm, although hmm, | 22:53 |
| penguin42 | that data sheet says the E7v2 socket is 'Socket R1' LGA2011-1 | 22:54 |
| penguin42 | so that's still the same? | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | okay next stupid question: why do they need so many different sockets? they all look pretty much the same | 22:54 |
| directhex | ali1234: It's Complicated | 22:54 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It sounds like the answer is they're slowly coming to not having many different sockets | 22:55 |
| directhex | ali1234: but, in essence, it's down to how many physical connections the chip needs to the motherboard - for example, an i7-5930k can drive 40 PCIe lanes, an i7-4790K can drive 16 | 22:57 |
| penguin42 | and also you need more pins to get more power into the chip | 22:57 |
| directhex | the i7-4790k can do dual-channel memory, the i7-5930k can do quad channel | 22:57 |
| directhex | in server chips, some pins are also for inter-socket links | 22:58 |
| directhex | IBM POWER8 has 15823 pins (!) | 23:00 |
| ali1234 | whaaaaat?!? | 23:01 |
| penguin42 | directhex: But your observation, which is interesting, is that now they're just using the same sockets on the xeons as the i7's and just ignoring the inter-cpu links | 23:01 |
| penguin42 | directhex: I bet 90% of those are power/ground | 23:01 |
| directhex | penguin42: not quite 90%, but good guess | 23:02 |
| directhex | 6000 for power, 7700 for ground | 23:02 |
| penguin42 | not far off :-) | 23:02 |
| ali1234 | http://www.v3.co.uk/IMG/964/287964/ibm-power8-540x334.jpg?1429512233 | 23:02 |
| directhex | ali1234: :D | 23:02 |
| shauno | 2099 for signals, apparently. that's still quite a crazy amount | 23:03 |
| penguin42 | they look quite boring compared to the old MCMs | 23:03 |
| penguin42 | they also have to be careful just on layout - there's only so many pins you can get out through a PCB from teh centre of a package like that | 23:04 |
| ali1234 | well, i would guess that's another reason why so many are power/ground | 23:05 |
| directhex | penguin42: not if you go deeper! | 23:05 |
| ali1234 | since you have to route them on the die as well | 23:05 |
| penguin42 | directhex: There'sa limit to how many layers you can sanely do as well | 23:05 |
| ali1234 | yep, power and ground will probably get a layer each | 23:05 |
| directhex | for ali1234 , that's another major issue - a socket with more pins needs more layers, and more layers are MUCH more expensive | 23:05 |
| shauno | aren't power8 usually used for supercomputers? I think they can probably budget a few extra layers :) | 23:06 |
| penguin42 | directhex: Yeh and they start to even get heavy when you get really thick boards - one place I worked did a backplane that was getting silly | 23:06 |
| penguin42 | shauno: They're also available as servers - I think 2Uish | 23:07 |
| directhex | they're billing power8 as a cloud server chip | 23:07 |
| penguin42 | directhex: By putting the word 'cloud' on the billing | 23:07 |
| directhex | :D | 23:07 |
| penguin42 | shauno: http://www.tyan.com/campaign/openpower/ | 23:07 |
| shauno | I can't imagine what makes it particularly cloudy, other than being 8-core | 23:08 |
| directhex | i'm going to bed | 23:09 |
| penguin42 | that's a good place to be | 23:09 |
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