/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/04/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

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pittiGood morning04:56
larsugood morning!04:56
pittihey larsu, wie gehts?04:56
larsuargh, I was just happy that I was first :)04:56
larsupitti: hi! Good. Had a nice relaxing weekend at the M├╝ritz with great weather for biking and kayaking. You?04:57
pittilarsu: we spent it mostly at home as it was raining all the time :/05:01
pittilarsu: originally I planned to finally do that kite ride, but once again bad weather :(05:01
larsusorry to hear :(05:03
pittilarsu: fourth time will be the charm! (next date: first June weekend)05:03
larsupitti: good luck!05:03
didrocksgood morning06:03
pittibonjour didrocks !06:07
didrockshey pitti06:07
larsuno name yet?06:24
pittilarsu: not officially, no :/06:25
pittisabdfl promised to blog about it yesterday, but seems that still didn't happen06:25
pittino wobbly walrus yet :)06:25
* larsu is a sad warthog06:25
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Guest51842Hello. I am new to linux ubuntu and can not get my sound blaster z sound card to work. does anyone have any suggestions possibly? Thanks!07:11
didrocksinteresting, it seems that the visual studio code support brought a lot of new translators for ubuntu make07:24
didrocks(like 3 new langages, 4 other translation refresh since my last translation snapshot less than a month ago)07:25
didrocks(also, first release to be taken really widely in the press)07:26
seb128didrocks, the microsoft coolness :-)07:49
didrocksseems so :p07:49
duflupitti, larsu: Blog shows it will be announced today (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/)08:12
larsuah cool, thanks duflu08:13
larsuseb128: do you know the answer to this? https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/indicator-messages/clear-all-unescape-fix/+merge/257471/comments/64354811:14
seb128larsu, not really, but I guess we can SRU the fix and then it's up to the rtm/landing teams to include that or not12:32
larsuseb128: ok. just asking if you think it makes sense in general. I'll comment that we need an SRU-bug12:34
seb128larsu, yeah, makes sense to SRU imho12:34
seb128larsu, btw did you get anywhere with the location/soup/gvfs/geoclue issue?12:37
larsuseb128: not yet but thanks for reminding me :)12:38
seb128larsu, yw!12:38
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Sweet5harkricotz: fwiw 4.4.3~rc2 uploaded, building -- but untested ...14:38
ricotzSweet5hark, thanks, will grab it asap14:48
ogra_Sweet5hark, libreOffice-KitKat ?14:48
Sweet5harkogra_: we have libreofficekit. https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/tree/master/libreofficekit14:51
ogra_heh14:52
Sweet5harkogra_:  I hear Kats are available on the internetz. add them for instant kitkat14:52
ogra_lol14:52
seb128desrt, larsu, did you register a blueprint/session for the gsettings security work for UOS?15:25
larsuseb128: was just looking myself if there's one. I thought jdstrand was going to do it :/15:26
seb128did he say he would?15:27
seb128I assumed we would do that15:27
larsuI offered that we talk at uos and I said yes15:27
larsuso that's what I assumed15:27
Sweet5harkcouldnt help myself when hearing about the wilywerewolf: https://twitter.com/Sweet5hark/status/59524698322651136015:29
seb128larsu, desrt, do you prefer to re-use https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings or have a new one?15:33
* jdstrand is not leading that discussion15:36
larsuseb128: reuse is fine by me. I don't know enough about this topic yet anyway, which is why I this session15:36
jdstrandsince we aren't implementing it15:36
jdstrandso I didn't register it. I'm ahppy to attend the session15:36
seb128jdstrand, right15:36
seb128thanks15:36
larsujdstrand: you know what needs to be done though right?15:36
jdstrandlarsu: honestly, I don't know why we are going the gsettings route since it seems more complex of an implementation to solve what is precisely required. the previous conversation seemed that was the implementation that was desired15:37
jdstrandand I'm not dictating implementation15:38
jdstrandall I care about is that the settings are stored somewhere that doesn't constitute a privacy leak15:38
larsujdstrand: what precisely is required? GSettings exists exactly for the needs we have on desktop15:38
jdstrandyou asked if I know what needs to be done. I know what needs to be done security wise. I don't know all the reasons why gsettings was chosen or the internal implementation details for what is planned15:39
jdstrandall that is required is a place for a few things for apps to query-- locale, vibrate, grid units, etc15:40
seb128jdstrand, larsu, the current need is to store/access some easy settings, we could do something easier for those special cases but that wouldn't be futur/convergence proof15:41
jdstrandgsettings obviously can do that, but making gsettings work with application isolation is harder than a separate service. I'll let others decide15:41
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seb128jdstrand, we are going to need to isolate gsettings for the desktop usecase in the futur anyway, so better to tackle that issue rather than reinvent a solution for the easy case and then having 2 things for the some purpose15:41
seb128mhall119, hey, how do we get https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings accepted for uos and scheduled?15:44
mhall119security-r- ? how old is this15:45
jdstrandit is old15:45
larsumhall119: very15:45
mhall119man oh man...15:45
mhall119seb128: rename it to core-1505- or convergence-1505- and I'll accept it to the sprint15:45
jdstrandwe knew it would be a lot of work and app isolation on the phone didn't need it15:45
jdstrand(until recently)15:46
mhall119seb128: also, can you send me whatever you have on the desktop widgets work so I can prepare for that session?15:46
seb128mhall119, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-gsettings-confinement15:46
mhall119seb128: accepted, give it an hour or so and it'll be imported into summit where I can schedule it15:47
seb128mhall119, thanks15:47
* mhall119 will have to find an open slot15:47
seb128mhall119, desktop widgets ... we don't have a lot, we didn't really start on it, design did some work though, maybe JohnLea can point you to some online version of that?15:48
mhall119I'll poke him, thanks15:49
seb128thanks15:49
seb128mhall119, scheduling ... maybe you can borrow the community or core 15utc slot on thursday15:50
mhall119seb128: core probably, yes15:51
larsujdstrand: I totally don't understand how a separate service is supposed to be easier to write than a service that exposes gsettings to an app... But these misunderstandings are why we wanted to talk in the first place, right?15:51
jdstrandlarsu: have I mentioned I'm not dictating implementation? :)15:52
seb128larsu, a new service with no feature than letting you read/write some specific keys would probably be easier to write that the gsettings confinement one15:54
seb128but no point discussing that15:54
seb128that's not a solution, that would be a workaround to the current phone problem which only needs some specific keys15:54
seb128let's focus on discussing the proper solution and work on that15:55
larsujdstrand: you did, but you also talked down our solution. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise15:55
larsuseb128: maybe, but the concept desrt wrote is really small already15:56
larsuseb128: in any case, we'll need it at some point so might as well do it now15:56
seb128larsu, +115:56
seb128larsu, the issue was not small or not, just it's probably would have been harder to write for somebody who doesn't know gsettings as well15:56
larsuseb128: that's why desrt is doing it ;)15:57
seb128right15:57
seb128so let's focus on that15:57
larsuok, let's all focus on desrt!15:57
seb128the suggestion from doing something easier was coming from other teams who don't have the knowledge to easily do the proper solution15:57
seb128and wanted something they can use15:57
larsuah, got it15:58
jdstrandlarsu: I didn't talk it down-- I said I didn't understand the reasons behind it16:01
larsujdstrand: fair enough16:02
desrtseb128: i asked will about a session but he was unable to find space16:10
desrtbut he was going to look into it again, iirc16:10
seb128desrt, ok, seems like mhall119 can put one on the core track16:11
seb128desrt, do you have any estimate also about when we should be able to land a first version of the service?16:11
desrtend of the month if i'm not distracted16:12
seb128thanks16:12
* desrt is trying not to be distracted :)16:13
desrtfwiw, read works, more or less16:13
desrtwrite is TODO16:13
desrtis-writable is a big scary TODO16:13
desrtbut maybe we can survive without that at first16:13
desrt(ie: dealing with sysadmin lockdown of settings in a way that the app knows which settings its allowed to change, in order to grey out the appropriate widgets in the dialogs, etc.)16:14
attenteoh, could this be useful? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-system-settings/session-settings-service16:15
xclaesseseb128, GtkFileChooser in vivid doesn't sort folders on top anymore16:15
xclaesseseb128, on fedora there is an option for that on the right-click context menu16:16
xclaessedunno if that's upstream in gtk 3.16 or if it's fedora specific patch16:16
seb128xclaesse, dunno either16:17
xclaessewould make sense to have it in ubuntu16:17
seb128attente, useful for desrt or as a solution until the gsettings work is done?16:17
attenteseb128: this is the settings stuff that we were talking about last year? or is desrt working on something different?16:18
seb128attente, desrt is working on making access to gsettings key restricted/having confinement16:19
seb128attente, e.g let gedit reads only its keys and some system ones16:19
seb128rather than having access to the whole database16:19
attenteah, ok. that branch won't be useful then16:19
seb128hum16:22
seb128bah, I missed didrocks it seems ;-)16:22
desrtattente: this is interesting in fact16:25
desrtwe may be able to provide some of the same functionality via the new service16:26
desrtin the same way that we provide the xsettings-type stuff16:26
attentedesrt: how do you mean?16:26
attentedesrt: like u-s-d xsettings plugin?16:26
mhall119seb128: 1500 utc on core is taken, can you do 1800?16:26
seb128desrt, larsu, ^ would thursday 18utc work for that session?16:27
xclaesseseb128, it's upstream with commit 2aa3eea781ed21a02ecdf1e3c753a1ec5694d6c816:33
xclaesseseb128, could be backported to 3.14 for ubuntu ?16:33
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seb128xclaesse, it's a new string, it's a bit annoying to backport since it wouldn't have translations16:34
xclaesseseb128, or the default could be changed with no option?16:35
seb128xclaesse, changing the default would make sense to me16:35
xclaessethat's how it was before 3.1416:35
seb128Laney, larsu: ^ wdyt? (having gtk "sort folders first" default to on)16:35
seb128right16:35
seb128at least for vivid, until we get a GTK version that provides an UI for setting that back16:35
desrtseb128: thursday is fine for me16:44
seb128desrt, 18utc as well?16:45
desrti'm here all day :)16:45
seb128k16:45
seb128mhall119, seems it should work for us16:45
seb128mhall119, thanks16:45
seb128mhall119, or can't you give us the 3pm community slot? I've a feeling that the 6pm app cycle management session is going to conflict some people16:47
seb128or maybe not, not sure if security teams want to go to that one16:47
jdstrandwe can send people to different meetings16:50
jdstrand(though, please avoid a snappy conflict)16:51
seb128k16:52
larsuseb128: thu at 8pm works for me. I agree, sort folders has to default to 'on'16:54
seb128larsu, thanks16:54
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