[04:56] <pitti> Good morning
[04:56] <larsu> good morning!
[04:56] <pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
[04:56] <larsu> argh, I was just happy that I was first :)
[04:57] <larsu> pitti: hi! Good. Had a nice relaxing weekend at the Müritz with great weather for biking and kayaking. You?
[05:01] <pitti> larsu: we spent it mostly at home as it was raining all the time :/
[05:01] <pitti> larsu: originally I planned to finally do that kite ride, but once again bad weather :(
[05:03] <larsu> sorry to hear :(
[05:03] <pitti> larsu: fourth time will be the charm! (next date: first June weekend)
[05:03] <larsu> pitti: good luck!
[06:03] <didrocks> good morning
[06:07] <pitti> bonjour didrocks !
[06:07] <didrocks> hey pitti
[06:24] <larsu> no name yet?
[06:25] <pitti> larsu: not officially, no :/
[06:25] <pitti> sabdfl promised to blog about it yesterday, but seems that still didn't happen
[06:25] <pitti> no wobbly walrus yet :)
[06:25]  * larsu is a sad warthog
[07:11] <Guest51842> Hello. I am new to linux ubuntu and can not get my sound blaster z sound card to work. does anyone have any suggestions possibly? Thanks!
[07:24] <didrocks> interesting, it seems that the visual studio code support brought a lot of new translators for ubuntu make
[07:25] <didrocks> (like 3 new langages, 4 other translation refresh since my last translation snapshot less than a month ago)
[07:26] <didrocks> (also, first release to be taken really widely in the press)
[07:49] <seb128> didrocks, the microsoft coolness :-)
[07:49] <didrocks> seems so :p
[08:12] <duflu> pitti, larsu: Blog shows it will be announced today (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/)
[08:13] <larsu> ah cool, thanks duflu
[11:14] <larsu> seb128: do you know the answer to this? https://code.launchpad.net/~nikwen/indicator-messages/clear-all-unescape-fix/+merge/257471/comments/643548
[12:32] <seb128> larsu, not really, but I guess we can SRU the fix and then it's up to the rtm/landing teams to include that or not
[12:34] <larsu> seb128: ok. just asking if you think it makes sense in general. I'll comment that we need an SRU-bug
[12:34] <seb128> larsu, yeah, makes sense to SRU imho
[12:37] <seb128> larsu, btw did you get anywhere with the location/soup/gvfs/geoclue issue?
[12:38] <larsu> seb128: not yet but thanks for reminding me :)
[12:38] <seb128> larsu, yw!
[14:38] <Sweet5hark> ricotz: fwiw 4.4.3~rc2 uploaded, building -- but untested ...
[14:48] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, thanks, will grab it asap
[14:48] <ogra_> Sweet5hark, libreOffice-KitKat ?
[14:51] <Sweet5hark> ogra_: we have libreofficekit. https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/tree/master/libreofficekit
[14:52] <ogra_> heh
[14:52] <Sweet5hark> ogra_:  I hear Kats are available on the internetz. add them for instant kitkat
[14:52] <ogra_> lol
[15:25] <seb128> desrt, larsu, did you register a blueprint/session for the gsettings security work for UOS?
[15:26] <larsu> seb128: was just looking myself if there's one. I thought jdstrand was going to do it :/
[15:27] <seb128> did he say he would?
[15:27] <seb128> I assumed we would do that
[15:27] <larsu> I offered that we talk at uos and I said yes
[15:27] <larsu> so that's what I assumed
[15:29] <Sweet5hark> couldnt help myself when hearing about the wilywerewolf: https://twitter.com/Sweet5hark/status/595246983226511360
[15:33] <seb128> larsu, desrt, do you prefer to re-use https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings or have a new one?
[15:36]  * jdstrand is not leading that discussion
[15:36] <larsu> seb128: reuse is fine by me. I don't know enough about this topic yet anyway, which is why I this session
[15:36] <jdstrand> since we aren't implementing it
[15:36] <jdstrand> so I didn't register it. I'm ahppy to attend the session
[15:36] <seb128> jdstrand, right
[15:36] <seb128> thanks
[15:36] <larsu> jdstrand: you know what needs to be done though right?
[15:37] <jdstrand> larsu: honestly, I don't know why we are going the gsettings route since it seems more complex of an implementation to solve what is precisely required. the previous conversation seemed that was the implementation that was desired
[15:38] <jdstrand> and I'm not dictating implementation
[15:38] <jdstrand> all I care about is that the settings are stored somewhere that doesn't constitute a privacy leak
[15:38] <larsu> jdstrand: what precisely is required? GSettings exists exactly for the needs we have on desktop
[15:39] <jdstrand> you asked if I know what needs to be done. I know what needs to be done security wise. I don't know all the reasons why gsettings was chosen or the internal implementation details for what is planned
[15:40] <jdstrand> all that is required is a place for a few things for apps to query-- locale, vibrate, grid units, etc
[15:41] <seb128> jdstrand, larsu, the current need is to store/access some easy settings, we could do something easier for those special cases but that wouldn't be futur/convergence proof
[15:41] <jdstrand> gsettings obviously can do that, but making gsettings work with application isolation is harder than a separate service. I'll let others decide
[15:41] <seb128> jdstrand, we are going to need to isolate gsettings for the desktop usecase in the futur anyway, so better to tackle that issue rather than reinvent a solution for the easy case and then having 2 things for the some purpose
[15:44] <seb128> mhall119, hey, how do we get https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/security-r-app-gsettings accepted for uos and scheduled?
[15:45] <mhall119> security-r- ? how old is this
[15:45] <jdstrand> it is old
[15:45] <larsu> mhall119: very
[15:45] <mhall119> man oh man...
[15:45] <mhall119> seb128: rename it to core-1505- or convergence-1505- and I'll accept it to the sprint
[15:45] <jdstrand> we knew it would be a lot of work and app isolation on the phone didn't need it
[15:46] <jdstrand> (until recently)
[15:46] <mhall119> seb128: also, can you send me whatever you have on the desktop widgets work so I can prepare for that session?
[15:46] <seb128> mhall119, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/convergence-1505-gsettings-confinement
[15:47] <mhall119> seb128: accepted, give it an hour or so and it'll be imported into summit where I can schedule it
[15:47] <seb128> mhall119, thanks
[15:47]  * mhall119 will have to find an open slot
[15:48] <seb128> mhall119, desktop widgets ... we don't have a lot, we didn't really start on it, design did some work though, maybe JohnLea can point you to some online version of that?
[15:49] <mhall119> I'll poke him, thanks
[15:49] <seb128> thanks
[15:50] <seb128> mhall119, scheduling ... maybe you can borrow the community or core 15utc slot on thursday
[15:51] <mhall119> seb128: core probably, yes
[15:51] <larsu> jdstrand: I totally don't understand how a separate service is supposed to be easier to write than a service that exposes gsettings to an app... But these misunderstandings are why we wanted to talk in the first place, right?
[15:52] <jdstrand> larsu: have I mentioned I'm not dictating implementation? :)
[15:54] <seb128> larsu, a new service with no feature than letting you read/write some specific keys would probably be easier to write that the gsettings confinement one
[15:54] <seb128> but no point discussing that
[15:54] <seb128> that's not a solution, that would be a workaround to the current phone problem which only needs some specific keys
[15:55] <seb128> let's focus on discussing the proper solution and work on that
[15:55] <larsu> jdstrand: you did, but you also talked down our solution. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise
[15:56] <larsu> seb128: maybe, but the concept desrt wrote is really small already
[15:56] <larsu> seb128: in any case, we'll need it at some point so might as well do it now
[15:56] <seb128> larsu, +1
[15:56] <seb128> larsu, the issue was not small or not, just it's probably would have been harder to write for somebody who doesn't know gsettings as well
[15:57] <larsu> seb128: that's why desrt is doing it ;)
[15:57] <seb128> right
[15:57] <seb128> so let's focus on that
[15:57] <larsu> ok, let's all focus on desrt!
[15:57] <seb128> the suggestion from doing something easier was coming from other teams who don't have the knowledge to easily do the proper solution
[15:57] <seb128> and wanted something they can use
[15:58] <larsu> ah, got it
[16:01] <jdstrand> larsu: I didn't talk it down-- I said I didn't understand the reasons behind it
[16:02] <larsu> jdstrand: fair enough
[16:10] <desrt> seb128: i asked will about a session but he was unable to find space
[16:10] <desrt> but he was going to look into it again, iirc
[16:11] <seb128> desrt, ok, seems like mhall119 can put one on the core track
[16:11] <seb128> desrt, do you have any estimate also about when we should be able to land a first version of the service?
[16:12] <desrt> end of the month if i'm not distracted
[16:12] <seb128> thanks
[16:13]  * desrt is trying not to be distracted :)
[16:13] <desrt> fwiw, read works, more or less
[16:13] <desrt> write is TODO
[16:13] <desrt> is-writable is a big scary TODO
[16:13] <desrt> but maybe we can survive without that at first
[16:14] <desrt> (ie: dealing with sysadmin lockdown of settings in a way that the app knows which settings its allowed to change, in order to grey out the appropriate widgets in the dialogs, etc.)
[16:15] <attente> oh, could this be useful? https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/ubuntu-system-settings/session-settings-service
[16:15] <xclaesse> seb128, GtkFileChooser in vivid doesn't sort folders on top anymore
[16:16] <xclaesse> seb128, on fedora there is an option for that on the right-click context menu
[16:16] <xclaesse> dunno if that's upstream in gtk 3.16 or if it's fedora specific patch
[16:17] <seb128> xclaesse, dunno either
[16:17] <xclaesse> would make sense to have it in ubuntu
[16:17] <seb128> attente, useful for desrt or as a solution until the gsettings work is done?
[16:18] <attente> seb128: this is the settings stuff that we were talking about last year? or is desrt working on something different?
[16:19] <seb128> attente, desrt is working on making access to gsettings key restricted/having confinement
[16:19] <seb128> attente, e.g let gedit reads only its keys and some system ones
[16:19] <seb128> rather than having access to the whole database
[16:19] <attente> ah, ok. that branch won't be useful then
[16:22] <seb128> hum
[16:22] <seb128> bah, I missed didrocks it seems ;-)
[16:25] <desrt> attente: this is interesting in fact
[16:26] <desrt> we may be able to provide some of the same functionality via the new service
[16:26] <desrt> in the same way that we provide the xsettings-type stuff
[16:26] <attente> desrt: how do you mean?
[16:26] <attente> desrt: like u-s-d xsettings plugin?
[16:26] <mhall119> seb128: 1500 utc on core is taken, can you do 1800?
[16:27] <seb128> desrt, larsu, ^ would thursday 18utc work for that session?
[16:33] <xclaesse> seb128, it's upstream with commit 2aa3eea781ed21a02ecdf1e3c753a1ec5694d6c8
[16:33] <xclaesse> seb128, could be backported to 3.14 for ubuntu ?
[16:34] <seb128> xclaesse, it's a new string, it's a bit annoying to backport since it wouldn't have translations
[16:35] <xclaesse> seb128, or the default could be changed with no option?
[16:35] <seb128> xclaesse, changing the default would make sense to me
[16:35] <xclaesse> that's how it was before 3.14
[16:35] <seb128> Laney, larsu: ^ wdyt? (having gtk "sort folders first" default to on)
[16:35] <seb128> right
[16:35] <seb128> at least for vivid, until we get a GTK version that provides an UI for setting that back
[16:44] <desrt> seb128: thursday is fine for me
[16:45] <seb128> desrt, 18utc as well?
[16:45] <desrt> i'm here all day :)
[16:45] <seb128> k
[16:45] <seb128> mhall119, seems it should work for us
[16:45] <seb128> mhall119, thanks
[16:47] <seb128> mhall119, or can't you give us the 3pm community slot? I've a feeling that the 6pm app cycle management session is going to conflict some people
[16:47] <seb128> or maybe not, not sure if security teams want to go to that one
[16:50] <jdstrand> we can send people to different meetings
[16:51] <jdstrand> (though, please avoid a snappy conflict)
[16:52] <seb128> k
[16:54] <larsu> seb128: thu at 8pm works for me. I agree, sort folders has to default to 'on'
[16:54] <seb128> larsu, thanks