[00:22] <Astormooke> Hello, just starting app development, thought I would peek in here and see what people are talking about.
[07:25] <davidcalle> Good morning all o/
[07:30] <seb128> hey davidcalle
[07:30] <davidcalle> hey seb128
[10:55] <zbenjamin> sergiusens: ping
[11:55] <sergiusens> zbenjamin: pong
[12:17] <zbenjamin> sergiusens: the ping was about the SIGTERM
[12:23] <sergiusens> ack
[13:38] <kalikiana> nik90: ping wrt http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22410/getting-the-ui-toolkit-ready-for-convergence/
[13:39] <nik90> kalikiana: pong
[13:40] <kalikiana> nik90: have a look at http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1505-getting-the-ui-toolkit-ready-for-convergence I wonder if you might talk a bit about #5 for current in progress work on converging apps
[13:41] <kalikiana> so we have more examples than just the toolkit gallery
[13:42] <nik90> kalikiana: examples of app suitable for convergence? or components within the sdk itself?
[13:44] <nik90> kalikiana: I believe converging apps will be discussed in detail at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22443/convergence-1505-converged-desktop-apps/
[13:44] <ahayzen> convergence \o/
[13:44] <nik90> :D
[13:45]  * ahayzen tries to remember the bugs he is waiting on before music can progress
[13:45] <kalikiana> nik90: yeah. I'm just interested in brief examples here really, so people may start excreeting saliva and want to join the follow up session :-D
[13:45] <nik90> kalikiana: ah ok :)
[13:45] <kalikiana> nik90: I assume not everyone is fully on the bandwagon yet so let's get them in there ;-)
[13:46] <nik90> ahayzen: can you link me to the music app convergence design and wip branches to use as an example
[13:46] <kalikiana> nik90: really a brief mention is all I'm thinking of, doesn't need to go into detail of how far it's ahead
[13:46] <ahayzen> nik90, https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3XynHVKfrvMejVpQVhUd1J3ZWM/edit
[13:47] <ahayzen> nik90, lp:~ahayzen/music-app/refactor-pull-now-playing-sidebar (IIRC it works on desktop lol ish)
[13:47] <nik90> ack.
[13:47]  * ahayzen checks
[13:47] <nik90> ahayzen: would you be attending http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22410/getting-the-ui-toolkit-ready-for-convergence/ ?
[13:47] <nik90> ahayzen: you could do a brief demo of it running to get people excited
[13:47] <ahayzen> possibly..but likely in IRC as i've got loads of cwk todo aha
[13:48] <nik90> ah ok
[13:48] <ahayzen> nik90, yeah ^^ works just run the usual $ qmlscene app/music-app.qml and ensure you have a queue there are some rough edges but it works
[13:49] <nik90> ahayzen: I cannot run it on my desktop due to 14.04..and cant demo it due to that :/
[13:49] <ahayzen> ah bugger
[13:49] <nik90> ahayzen: but I will show the screenshot you linked
[13:49] <ahayzen> coolio, just say its WIP ;)
[13:49] <nik90> yes
[13:50] <ahayzen> i'll be in IRC if anyone has anyway questions anyway
[13:52] <t1mp> are you guys joining #ubuntu-uos-appdev-2?
[14:02] <mflow> HTML5 player not working with Google Hangouts?
[14:02] <mflow> :(
[14:32] <stephwilson> Hello, does anyone know why the api scope page isn't working on the Dev site?
[14:32] <stephwilson> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/api/scopes/current/
[14:33] <davidcalle> mhall119, rewrite rule issue? ^
[14:37] <davidcalle> stephwilson, short story is: the API website has seen a new release/refresh earlier this week and there are some remaining url issues being fixed. mhall119 is working on that.
[14:38] <stephwilson> Thanks David, I'm trying to add links to APIs in the new Scope design guide that will going live soon
[14:38] <davidcalle> stephwilson, oh nice! (until that's fixed (very soon afaik), you can find the page at : https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/scopes/cpp/sdk-14.10/)
[14:40] <stephwilson> Woop! Thanks!!
[14:40] <davidcalle> yw :)
[15:11] <reversiblean> What gui platform would be most useful in learning for contributing to Ubuntu, Qt or GTK?
[15:14] <balloons> reversiblean, learn the ubuntu sdk if you want to create apps for ubuntu. it uses qt
[15:14] <brendand_> reversiblean, certainly Qt
[15:14] <brendand_> reversiblean, especially qml
[15:14] <balloons> developer.ubuntu.com is the place to learn more
[15:14] <brendand_> +1
[15:16] <reversiblean> what about cross-compatibility? I mean Windows and Ubuntu
[15:17] <reversiblean> with the native looks
[15:22] <reversiblean> @balloons I forgot to metion that I'm focusing on desktop apps, and not mobile
[15:22] <balloons> reversiblean, definitely qt still..
[15:22] <ogra_> thats the same in the ubuntu world :)
[15:22] <ogra_> convergence ;)
[15:23] <ogra_> (if you use the SDK and QML at least)
[16:43] <tmash> hello all
[16:44] <tmash> anyone known how to integrate html5 with c++ for ubuntu touch?
[16:44] <tmash> talking from qtcreator! :D
[16:52] <tmash11> any idea?
[16:54] <tmash11> how hard it is to integrate c++ to ubuntu rouch qml and deploy?
[16:59] <tmash11> every1 is asleep i guess
[17:01] <mcphail> tmash11: using c++ with a qml project is very easy. Don't know about using it with an html5 project, though
[17:02] <DanChapman> tmash11: what are you trying to acheive?
[17:02] <tmash11> c++ as a backend , what kind of limitation u face with qml?
[17:02] <tmash11> well, im learning, going through the tutorials, seems like its all about the ui design
[17:03] <mcphail> tmash11: if you use a c++ backend, your only limits are those imposed by the platform
[17:03] <tmash11> and that is the architecure? convergance?
[17:03] <mcphail> tmash11: simple apps can be made with qml and javascript, without needing c++
[17:06] <mcphail> tmash11: ubuntu apps run with very restrictive apparmor profiles to limit the damage they can do. That is your biggest limitation in your coding. You won't have access to the full filesystem, for example
[17:06] <mcphail> (by default, anyway)
[17:07] <tmash11> oh, even low-level devices? or hw specific control
[17:07] <tmash11> the use of opengl, opencl , dsps etc
[17:12] <tmash11> thank you!
[17:28] <bzoltan> aquarius: sorry mate, I am not sure if I can make it to the UCS session... I have some major parenting job in my hand. But I entered to the pad few provocative and idiotic questions :) http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1505-ubuntu-component-store
[17:29] <aquarius> bzoltan, ok, cool
[17:29] <aquarius> thank you for the questions
[17:29] <bzoltan> aquarius: anyhow.. my stand is the same as before. I do wish to integrate the UCS to the Ubuntu SDK and I wish to support it with visual features.
[17:30] <aquarius> the answer to them is fairly simple, but I don't think your team will like it :)
[17:30] <aquarius> but we'll discuss them in the session :)
[17:30] <bzoltan> aquarius: It is not much about my personal taste... we need to ensure certain quality level.
[17:31] <aquarius> no you don't. YOu need to enforce that for the SDK, certainly.
[17:31] <aquarius> you do not need to for components, in the same way that you do not need to for the Ubuntu archive. :)
[17:31] <aquarius> but this is a discussion for the session.
[17:34] <bzoltan> aquarius: Okey.. but keep in mind that anything what is integrated to the Ubuntu SDK does come with the same branding... so I can not integrate something and say, that sorry... not my crap :) blame the dude who made it.
[17:35] <aquarius> absolutely
[17:35] <aquarius> my job there is to convince you that the people who develop the SDK are not the people who use the SDK. :)
[17:35] <aquarius> which takes time, and we may never agree on it, which I'm fine with :)
[17:36] <bzoltan> aquarius:  can not convince me about that... nobody is using more the SDK than the SDK team :)
[17:37] <bzoltan> aquarius:  I would show the green light right away if you agree that UCS should provide source code distribution too
[17:38] <aquarius> bzoltan, that requires that using Ubuntu SDK to build a project with source code in is as easy as using it to build a pure QML project, and it isn't. That's why I don't want source code.
[17:38] <aquarius> There is no build step for my apps. I do not want to add one to use a component.
[17:38] <nik90> aquarius: true, but if the sdk does the building for you seamlessly then it doesnt matter
[17:38] <bzoltan> aquarius: how do you do the i18n?
[17:39] <nik90> aquarius: as an app dev you are interested in getting and running up the app as fast as possible regardless of whether we use the source code or compiled components
[17:39] <bzoltan> aquarius:  for your information .. the support of qmlproject will go away
[17:39] <nik90> bzoltan: really?
[17:39] <nik90> bzoltan: so we're sticking to cmake and qmake project types only?
[17:40] <bzoltan> nik90:  not tomorrow, but qmlproject is not really good
[17:40] <bzoltan> nik90:  mostly qmake
[17:40] <zbenjamin> nik90: yes, that was suggested by upstream , qmlproject is for prototyping only
[17:40] <zbenjamin> nik90: thats the offical qt upstream statement
[17:40] <bzoltan> nik90:  cmake is there for crazy people who like to suffer :) it is available, but it is never as comfy as qmake
[17:40] <nik90> ah ok
[17:40] <nik90> bzoltan: yeah one of these days I need to play around with qmake
[17:41] <bzoltan> nik90: aquarius: and the problem of qmlproject is exactly the missing build step... how do you do i18n?
[17:41] <nik90> noticed mzanetti uses qmake for all his projects..for good reason
[17:41] <bzoltan> nik90:  yeps
[17:41] <zbenjamin> nik90: mzanetti was the happiest dev when we brought qmake back :D
[17:41]  * DanChapman is moving dekko to qmake as well
[17:42] <nik90> zbenjamin: lol
[17:42] <mzanetti> :D
[17:42]  * mzanetti confirms
[17:42] <nik90> I was just about to type that mzanetti must be grinning in the background while reading this ;P
[17:42] <mzanetti> while I think cmake is perfectly suited for something like unity8, it's just so much overkill for a simple app
[17:42] <zbenjamin> well to be clear, the QtC will still load qmlprojects. But we will deprecate it, remove the templates and after some time probably remoe the support to deploy to te device
[17:42] <bzoltan> mzanetti: +1
[17:43] <aquarius> bzoltan, yeah, I know you are doing that. I personally hate it -- when I said "please make it just as easy to do compiled projects as it is to do pure QML projects", I didn't expect that that would be solved by forcing pure QML projects to be a difficult Makefile nightmare as well. But that seems to be the decision regardless of what I think, so oh well. :)
[17:43] <zbenjamin> aquarius: as a QtC user you won't see much difference
[17:43] <nik90> aquarius: hey I don't have a presentation like last time, so I guess we could do a demo instead...
[17:43] <bzoltan> aquarius:  dude... have you seen a qmake .pro lately? Simple is like a train loo
[17:43] <aquarius> nik90, er. We could do...
[17:43] <nik90> aquarius: correction "YOU" could do a demo :P
[17:43] <aquarius> I'm not really geared up for a demo!
[17:44] <zbenjamin> you have 16 minutes :D
[17:44] <nik90> aquarius: nothing too major, just create a hello-world component and add it to the store using the API you created
[17:44] <nik90> aquarius: and ofc we will have a nice discussion
[17:44] <nik90> as always
[17:45] <aquarius> bzoltan, I have seen one. It is WAY more complex than a .qmlproject file.
[17:45] <aquarius> I am looking at one right now. Way more complex, man.
[17:45] <mzanetti> ...
[17:45] <aquarius> will try and rig up a demo.
[17:46] <nik90> aquarius: don't worry I am not going to abandon you in the middle and say bye ;P
[17:47] <mcphail> Will the hangout be broadcast after the meeting? I'd be interested in the discussion
[17:47] <nik90> mcphail: yes, its a live hangout
[17:48] <nik90> mcphail: feel free to join
[17:48] <nik90> the hangout itself to contribute to the discussion
[17:48] <nik90> mcphail: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1505/meeting/22439/ubuntu-component-store/
[17:48] <bzoltan> aquarius:  do not look at the qtbase.pro dude :)
[17:48] <mcphail> nik90: I can't access hangouts here (internet too slow) but if it goes up on youtube afterwards I can download
[17:48] <zbenjamin> that would give you a heartattack :D
[17:48] <zbenjamin> mcphail: it is available on youtube yes
[17:49] <mcphail> zbenjamin: great - thanks
[17:49] <bzoltan> aquarius:  The Simple APP with qmake is a 6 lines file .
[17:49] <zbenjamin> mcphail: i think you can easily access it later on the link nik90 gave you
[17:49] <mcphail> zbenjamin: ok - that's helpful. Cheers
[17:49] <zbenjamin> bzoltan: actually its 2 pro files :)
[17:49] <nik90> mcphail: yup after the hangout, youtube should make it available frm the same link
[17:49] <zbenjamin> bzoltan: the reason for that is that you can easily add a backend to that
[17:50] <bzoltan> zbenjamin:  I know ... but for a simple app it is dead simple
[17:50] <aquarius> bzoltan, I don't think we're going to agree on this. I believe you massively underestimate how complex Makefile-style stuff is for people who don't write C a lot.
[17:50] <zbenjamin> yes, the ugly stuff is in the feature files
[17:51] <zbenjamin> aquarius: qmake is not Makefile style
[17:51] <zbenjamin> Makefile syntax is much more horrible
[17:51] <aquarius> UBUNTU_TRANSLATION_SOURCES+= \
[17:51] <aquarius>     $$files(app/*.qml,true) \
[17:51] <aquarius>     $$files(app/*.js,true)
[17:51] <aquarius> vs
[17:51] <aquarius>     Files {
[17:51] <aquarius>         directory: "www/js/"
[17:51] <aquarius>         filter: "*"
[17:51] <aquarius>     }
[17:51] <zbenjamin> nono
[17:51] <zbenjamin> thats wrong
[17:52] <zbenjamin> UBUNTU_TRANSLATION_SOURCES vs the new Makefile that is in the qmlproject template
[17:53] <bzoltan> aquarius:  I am still stuck at the question of how do you do i18n with qmlproject?
[17:53] <zbenjamin> and you could do:    UBUNTU_TRANSLATION_SOURCE += /path/to/file1.qml /path/to/file2.qml
[17:53] <zbenjamin> thats just convenience
[19:00] <bzoltan> aquarius: nik90: zbenjamin: kalikiana: You guys rock! The best ever session... we have a mind blowing feature in our hand. I will keep you posted about the schedule and the implementation details.
[19:00] <zbenjamin> bzoltan: \o/
[19:00] <aquarius> winner. I have updated http://pad.ubuntu.com/uos-1505-ubuntu-component-store with a note saying, basically, this is all SDK team all the time. :)
[19:00] <aquarius> thank you, all -- that was a really good discussion!
[19:00] <nik90> bzoltan: when you guys guide us with minimum requirements and help like this, we get more motivated to work on it and push it further
[19:00] <kalikiana> aquarius: will you file a bug report for it? so that we can actually schedule the qtc side of things
[19:01] <bzoltan> kalikiana: +1
[19:01] <aquarius> I can, but... what should the bug report say?
[19:01]  * bzoltan goes offline now
[19:01] <aquarius> "build the ubuntu component store"?
[19:01] <kalikiana> aquarius: provide a reliable entry point for inserting third party components - prime user: ucs
[19:01] <aquarius> ah, ok
[19:02] <kalikiana> and to be honest it shouldn't even be constrained to ucs, it should be open to third party ucs's
[19:02] <aquarius> totall
[19:03] <kalikiana> and maybe my dream will come true soon: bundle unstable uitk as a component in the store
[19:03] <aquarius> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-touch-meta/+bug/1452416 filed
[19:03] <aquarius> erm
[19:04] <aquarius> that's a weird thing to file it against, "ubuntu-bug ubuntu-sdk"
[19:04] <aquarius> you may want to move it to some other project ;)
[19:05] <kalikiana> aquarius: I moved it to the qtc plugin