=== aaron__ is now known as ahoneybun === aaron__ is now known as ahoneybun === aaron is now known as ahoneybun [20:33] what's up gsilva ? [21:01] hey wxl [21:01] hey ahoneybun [21:02] can you look at something for me? [21:02] sure [21:03] thanks [21:03] don't forget your bulletpoints on the documentation section ahoneybun :) [21:03] its a slideshow about the current documentation setup for each project [21:04] got those might now show well with google docs [21:04] ko [21:06] well i sure like the idea of using rtd [21:06] frankly i loathe all the different lightweight markup languages [21:06] we need to just pick one and go for it [21:07] to me the language that rtd uses is much cleaner and easier for someone to get a hold of so they can contribute [21:07] largely it seems this has been already chosen by a lot of the internet: markdown [21:07] I've been toying with the idea that all the projects use one service/host/language [21:07] luckily rtd supports markdown [21:08] the other side of the coin is that a lot of potential docs contributors are not technical users [21:08] that way we do not do double work, help eachother, and make it easy for everyone to help out other projects [21:08] getting them to learn *ANY* markdown is a pain [21:09] s/markdown/lightweight markup language/ [21:09] reStructuredText is pretty easy [21:09] they are all easy [21:09] moin moin is easy [21:09] media wiki is easy [21:09] but easy isn't the problem [21:09] they all have a different take on what "easy" looks like [21:09] and so switching from one flavor to another just sucks [21:10] even then like gsilva said we can just have people file bugs against the manual/docs and we fix the issue [21:10] oh now that's a fairly decent idea [21:10] just having second eyes helps awhole lot [21:10] i think the other key to get people to contribute is a wysiwyg lightweight markup language editor [21:11] wxl: I'm thinking of giving a talk about this at SELF (South East Linux Fest) [21:11] yes, great idea1!!!! [21:11] i am 100% in support of this [21:11] lol [21:12] maybe it would be good to encourage a wysiwyg editor that can easily convert into whatever language you want [21:12] like the 2nd slide shows that we are pretty much in 2 main places (Wiki Ubuntu or Launchpad) [21:12] wysiwyg? [21:12] what you see is what you get [21:12] oh [21:12] think google docs on the outside [21:12] I've been using kate but that is the default in KDE [21:12] but you can save to whatever format you want [21:13] oh not sure of a system that supports that many [21:13] there isn't as far as i know [21:13] but that's been the probelms i have perceived: [21:13] mhall thinks this is a good talk idea as well [21:13] *topic [21:13] yes that is a great idea [21:14] thanks ianorlin [21:14] * lightweight markup languages are a great alternative to something as heavy weight as word processor formats or even something as complex as latex [21:14] seriously I am more worried about lxqt documantion than code quality [21:14] * lightweight markup languages resemble ways that we intuitively markup plain text for emphasis, etc. [21:14] even I see LaTeX as complex and I know a little programming languages [21:14] also LaTeX for noobs isn't quite that easy I know [21:14] * lightweight markup languages are all slightly different and incompatible [21:14] wxl pretty much [21:15] wxl: ianorlin http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickstart.html [21:16] * those of us that are well versed in different languages won't struggle too much to switch between lightweight markup langauges but the same can't be expected of noobs [21:16] * noobs need to be able to just "do it" quick [21:16] this is why i say an editor would be great [21:16] exactly I am still noob to both markdown and rst [21:17] https://www.varnish-cache.org/docs/2.1/phk/sphinx.html [21:17] hmm unfortanely juffed doesn't have thouse for syntax highilighting [21:17] also sphinx is FANTASTIC because it can basically pump out whatever you want including html, pdf, etc [21:17] yess! [21:17] that page is rst, and it is themed nicely [21:17] my only concern about sphinx is that it relies on rst which is canonical in the python world but not the world of the internets [21:18] let me find my blog about htis [21:18] http://polka.bike/blog/down-with-markup/ [21:18] wxl: ianorlin feel free to correct/ improve anything on my slideshow [21:20] ahoneybun: when you do this presentation, get it on video and i'll do a follow up blog entry on this [21:21] I think I know someone who could film it [21:21] if he is not busy doing something else at the con [21:21] the conference may film it too [21:21] true [21:22] also this is totally up gsilva's alley [21:22] I think they do for southeast linuxfest [21:22] he NEEDS to see this [21:22] I have watched a ton of them [21:22] I've been talking to him [21:23] my dream is to use RTD and rst, upload to LP, let people file bugs, we fix them = users have PDF, HTML and eBook formats [21:23] seems reasonable [21:23] certainly moving from random wiki pages to having a cohesive manual is important [21:23] and can easily host on their own docs.*buntu.org/net/com [21:23] i think that will only come through something like rtd [21:24] the wiki is a mess with the login system, MoinMoin [21:24] ahoneybun: assuming canonical it can handle the hosting! our loco is still waiting… [21:24] they host for free for Free Software [21:24] wxl: they still have not replied to us about Kubuntu's new site [21:24] so we are looking at other hosting options [21:25] ahoneybun: we got the ok and everything, but we're waiting for them to have time to do it, i guess [21:25] the setup I'm thinking is a lot better then telling a user to go to this: page.org then this one though this one [21:26] instead just bzr branch lp:*buntu-manual/docs [21:26] or file a bug [21:26] actually I thnk the wiki is hard to navigate and that must mean it is only that much harder for a noob [21:26] yea [21:27] sometimes I have issues logining in [21:27] *logging [21:27] or when you hit preview then click to see your link worked and it doesn't get saved [21:28] oh man [21:36] wxl: my slideshow now has 10 slides :) [21:37] this is an interesting talk tangentially related to other reasons to use lightweight markup langagues 14:35 < ubottu> plank (source: plank): Elegant, simple, clean dock. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.0-1 (vivid), package size 33 kB, installed size 319 kB [21:37] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A96iWavwyOo [21:37] oops [21:38] should not have middle clicked there [21:39] wxl: what are the Ubuntu docs written in? [21:39] you mean the manual? [21:40] yea what ever is on LP [21:41] it's tex [21:42] * ahoneybun looks at ianorlin's link [21:42] thanks wxl [21:44] here's help with autostarting, ModelEngine https://askubuntu.com/questions/81383/how-can-i-add-new-autostart-programs-in-lubuntu [21:44] wxl wrong channel [21:44] argh === aaron is now known as ahoneybun [21:49] silly multi monitor [23:32] hi, [23:33] wxl are you here ?