[20:33] <wxl> what's up gsilva ?
[21:01] <ahoneybun> hey wxl
[21:01] <wxl> hey ahoneybun
[21:02] <ahoneybun> can you look at something for me?
[21:02] <wxl> sure
[21:03] <ahoneybun> thanks
[21:03] <wxl> don't forget your bulletpoints on the documentation section ahoneybun :)
[21:03] <ahoneybun> its a slideshow about the current documentation setup for each project
[21:04] <ahoneybun> got those might now show well with google docs
[21:04] <wxl> ko
[21:06] <wxl> well i sure like the idea of using rtd
[21:06] <wxl> frankly i loathe all the different lightweight markup languages
[21:06] <wxl> we need to just pick one and go for it
[21:07] <ahoneybun> to me the language that rtd uses is much cleaner and easier for someone to get a hold of so they can contribute
[21:07] <wxl> largely it seems this has been already chosen by a lot of the internet: markdown
[21:07] <ahoneybun> I've been toying with the idea that all the projects use one service/host/language
[21:07] <wxl> luckily rtd supports markdown
[21:08] <wxl> the other side of the coin is that a lot of potential docs contributors are not technical users
[21:08] <ahoneybun> that way we do not do double work, help eachother, and make it easy for everyone to help out other projects
[21:08] <wxl> getting them to learn *ANY* markdown is a pain
[21:09] <wxl> s/markdown/lightweight markup language/
[21:09] <ahoneybun> reStructuredText is pretty easy
[21:09] <wxl> they are all easy
[21:09] <wxl> moin moin is easy
[21:09] <wxl> media wiki is easy
[21:09] <wxl> but easy isn't the problem
[21:09] <wxl> they all have a different take on what "easy" looks like
[21:09] <wxl> and so switching from one flavor to another just sucks
[21:10] <ahoneybun> even then like gsilva said we can just have people file bugs against the manual/docs and we fix the issue
[21:10] <wxl> oh now that's a fairly decent idea
[21:10] <ahoneybun> just having second eyes helps awhole lot
[21:10] <wxl> i think the other key to get people to contribute is a wysiwyg lightweight markup language editor
[21:11] <ahoneybun> wxl: I'm thinking of giving a talk about this at SELF (South East Linux Fest)
[21:11] <wxl> yes, great idea1!!!!
[21:11] <wxl> i am 100% in support of this
[21:11] <ahoneybun> lol
[21:12] <wxl> maybe it would be good to encourage a wysiwyg editor that can easily convert into whatever language you want
[21:12] <ahoneybun> like the 2nd slide shows that we are pretty much in 2 main places (Wiki Ubuntu or Launchpad)
[21:12] <ahoneybun> wysiwyg?
[21:12] <wxl> what you see is what you get
[21:12] <ahoneybun> oh
[21:12] <wxl> think google docs on the outside
[21:12] <ahoneybun> I've been using kate but that is the default in KDE
[21:12] <wxl> but you can save to whatever format you want
[21:13] <ahoneybun> oh not sure of a system that supports that many
[21:13] <wxl> there isn't as far as i know
[21:13] <wxl> but that's been the probelms i have perceived:
[21:13] <ahoneybun> mhall thinks this is a good talk idea as well
[21:13] <ahoneybun> *topic
[21:13] <ianorlin> yes that is a great idea
[21:14] <ahoneybun> thanks ianorlin
[21:14] <wxl>  * lightweight markup languages are a great alternative to something as heavy weight as word processor formats or even something as complex as latex
[21:14] <ianorlin> seriously I am more worried about lxqt documantion than code quality
[21:14] <wxl>  * lightweight markup languages resemble ways that we intuitively markup plain text for emphasis, etc.
[21:14] <ahoneybun> even I see LaTeX as complex and I know a little programming languages
[21:14] <ianorlin> also LaTeX for noobs isn't quite that easy I know
[21:14] <wxl>  * lightweight markup languages are all slightly different and incompatible
[21:14] <ianorlin> wxl pretty much
[21:15] <ahoneybun> wxl: ianorlin http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/user/rst/quickstart.html
[21:16] <wxl>  * those of us that are well versed in different languages won't struggle too much to switch between lightweight markup langauges but the same can't be expected of noobs
[21:16] <wxl>  * noobs need to be able to just "do it" quick
[21:16] <wxl> this is why i say an editor would be great
[21:16] <ianorlin> exactly I am still noob to both markdown and rst
[21:17] <ahoneybun> https://www.varnish-cache.org/docs/2.1/phk/sphinx.html
[21:17] <ianorlin> hmm unfortanely juffed doesn't have thouse for syntax highilighting
[21:17] <wxl> also sphinx is FANTASTIC because it can basically pump out whatever you want including html, pdf, etc
[21:17] <ahoneybun> yess!
[21:17] <ahoneybun> that page is rst, and it is themed nicely
[21:17] <wxl> my only concern about sphinx is that it relies on rst which is canonical in the python world but not the world of the internets
[21:18] <wxl> let me find my blog about htis
[21:18] <wxl> http://polka.bike/blog/down-with-markup/
[21:18] <ahoneybun> wxl: ianorlin feel free to correct/ improve anything on my slideshow
[21:20] <wxl> ahoneybun: when you do this presentation, get it on video and i'll do a follow up blog entry on this
[21:21] <ahoneybun> I think I know someone who could film it
[21:21] <ahoneybun> if he is not busy doing something else at the con
[21:21] <wxl> the conference may film it too
[21:21] <ahoneybun> true
[21:22] <wxl> also this is totally up gsilva's alley
[21:22] <ianorlin> I think they do for southeast linuxfest
[21:22] <wxl> he NEEDS to see this
[21:22] <ianorlin> I have watched a ton of them
[21:22] <ahoneybun> I've been talking to him
[21:23] <ahoneybun> my dream is to use RTD and rst, upload to LP, let people file bugs, we fix them = users have PDF, HTML and eBook formats
[21:23] <wxl> seems reasonable
[21:23] <wxl> certainly moving from random wiki pages to having a cohesive manual is important
[21:23] <ahoneybun> and can easily host on their own docs.*buntu.org/net/com
[21:23] <wxl> i think that will only come through something like rtd
[21:24] <ahoneybun> the wiki is a mess with the login system, MoinMoin
[21:24] <wxl> ahoneybun: assuming canonical it can handle the hosting! our loco is still waiting…
[21:24] <ahoneybun> they host for free for Free Software
[21:24] <ahoneybun> wxl: they still have not replied to us about Kubuntu's new site
[21:24] <ahoneybun> so we are looking at other hosting options
[21:25] <wxl> ahoneybun: we got the ok and everything, but we're waiting for them to have time to do it, i guess
[21:25] <ahoneybun> the setup I'm thinking is a lot better then telling a user to go to this: page.org then this one though this one
[21:26] <ahoneybun> instead just bzr branch lp:*buntu-manual/docs
[21:26] <ahoneybun> or file a bug
[21:26] <ianorlin> actually I thnk the wiki is hard to navigate and that must mean it is only that much harder for a noob
[21:26] <ahoneybun> yea
[21:27] <ahoneybun> sometimes I have issues logining in
[21:27] <ahoneybun> *logging
[21:27] <ianorlin> or when you hit preview then click to see your link worked and it doesn't get saved
[21:28] <ahoneybun> oh man
[21:36] <ahoneybun> wxl: my slideshow now has 10 slides :)
[21:37] <ianorlin> this is an interesting talk tangentially related to other reasons to use lightweight markup langagues 14:35 < ubottu> plank (source: plank): Elegant, simple, clean dock. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.0-1 (vivid), package size 33 kB, installed size 319 kB
[21:37] <ianorlin> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A96iWavwyOo
[21:37] <ianorlin> oops
[21:38] <ianorlin> should not have middle clicked there
[21:39] <ahoneybun> wxl: what are the Ubuntu docs written in?
[21:39] <wxl> you mean the manual?
[21:40] <ahoneybun> yea what ever is on LP
[21:41] <wxl> it's tex
[21:42]  * ahoneybun looks at ianorlin's link
[21:42] <ahoneybun> thanks wxl
[21:44] <wxl> here's help with autostarting, ModelEngine https://askubuntu.com/questions/81383/how-can-i-add-new-autostart-programs-in-lubuntu
[21:44] <ianorlin> wxl wrong channel
[21:44] <wxl> argh
[21:49] <ahoneybun> silly multi monitor
[23:32] <Nairwolf> hi,
[23:33] <Nairwolf> wxl are you here ?