thesheff17lantins: 1) I don't think so...2) I'm not sure...I'm also trying to get it to work without going to the store01:50
thesheff17haha sorry terrible answers :)01:50
thesheff17but yea I would love to know as well01:51
thesheff17oh these were asked by ryanprior sorry01:52
lantinsthesheff17: I was watching a video from eariler this month, they said the kernel would become a snap package, available from the store, along with the base system itself01:59
lantinsso, if that happens, im _guessing_ you could swap in your own kernel02:00
thesheff17ah nice02:00
lantinsthesheff17: another video also mentioned that you could host snap packages privately, but no other details were provided02:01
lantinsmy vagrant install of snappy seems to be failing on me, so I've not had a chance to play around with the command line tools, it could be as simple as pointing it to your own URL02:01
lantinsbut then i question how updates would happen auto-magically02:02
thesheff17yea I'm a little confused by how the packages work...do you just provide your own binaries in bin and the build the snappy image?02:02
lantinsmy gut feeling is telling me, snappy ubuntu core is 12+ months off being production ready02:02
lantinsthesheff17: yeah, it seems that way02:02
thesheff17well as far as I know the updates require a reboot from revision to revision02:02
thesheff17yea I def want to see snappy in production...but yea you are prob right its going to be a while02:03
lantinsthe transactional updates, using deltas is what appeals to me :)02:04
lantinswould be good for low bandwidth situations02:04
lantinsi just hope its not all too tied into 'the store', that' ive NFI how you even 'browse'....02:04
thesheff17absolutely for me as well...apt-get works well enough now but I'm always scared its going to break something02:05
thesheff17yea my company prob wouldn't want the scripts public or in ubuntu store02:05
thesheff17I also wonder how kernel 4.x will work since it no longer requiring reboots...I haven't really scene anyone testing it yet.02:06
lantinscompany isn't a problem for me, customers however would not want it public, since they are paying good money for it ;)02:06
thesheff17haha right02:06
thesheff17also why did they name it snappy...it totally collides with a google snappy compression package02:07
thesheff17its hard to search right now on google02:07
lantinsthese days, every name is taken :)02:07
lantinsbut yeah, its a right pain to google for things02:08
thesheff17this is also really interesting http://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/05/06/live-migration-in-lxd/?utm_source=ubunteu&utm_medium=url_shortner&utm_term=PQfLe3&utm_campaign=shortner02:09
lantinsI'm thinking, for my planned use case, rolling something from ubuntu core may be the way to go02:09
thesheff17having live migration of snappy running instances would be so cool02:09
thesheff17yea I have tested a bunch of docker...it kinda fits into my environment but I don't think I have the resources to implement it02:10
lantinsto implement snappy?02:11
thesheff17to implement docker02:11
thesheff17also its a little strange docker was like the first package for snappy02:12
lantinsdocker is cool, ive only ever 'played', never done anything in production :)02:13
lantinsyeah, i dont quite get why...02:13
lantinssince they can, kinda, be used for the same thing02:13
thesheff17yea I have 1 docker server in amazon running 1 stage service for my developers but just getting that working was not fun02:14
lantinsthesheff17: https://daniel.holba.ch/blog/2015/05/the-snappy-online-summit-is-in-full-swing/ - links to the videos i mentioned above, may be of interest02:16
thesheff17cool I will def check them out02:16
lantinsvideos are only a couple of days old, so its fairly uptodate ;)02:16
thesheff17lantins: cool yea if you are a python guy check out this link http://www.wefearchange.org/2015/04/creating-python-snaps.html I'm slowly trying trying to duplicate this article... I use pip for almost everything I do02:21
lantinsta :)02:24
lantinsokay, so python is already installed in snappy, because part of the tools are wrote in python, i wonder how you'd do something like say... Ruby? would every dependancy be rolled into the snap package?02:28
lantinsmy actual use case would be a go app, so that's easy being a binary02:29
thesheff17yea I'm guessing this pex package for python basically builds custom binaries or what packages you want included in your snappy image02:33
thesheff17yea I almost wish you could say take an entire lxc container and make a snappy image out of it...02:57
dholbachgood morning06:30
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Monday, and happy Twilight Zone Day! πŸ˜ƒ09:06
=== davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle
beowulfChipaca: you around today?10:08
Chipacabeowulf: yes, but was at kids' dentist until just now10:53
ogra_you should talk to your health insurance if they dont let you go to a grown up one ...10:54
Chipacaogra_: i'm not sure whether to mention this dentist specialises in ASD kids or not11:00
dholbachhttps://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/vivid/ubuntu-core-upgrader/bug-1435774/+merge/256562 is in the sponsorship queue... is the bug still valid?11:12
davidcalleCan someone have a quick look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/1453781 ?  I believe the bug reporter is right, but I'd like a confirmation before fixing. Thanks !12:27
davidcalle(snap format doc bug)12:28
Chipacadavidcalle: I don't think the bug is right12:34
davidcalleChipaca, glad I asked :)12:34
Chipacagranted, the website isn't entirely correct either12:34
Chipacabut that description is correct as things are currently documented12:34
Chipacaescaping a dot inside a character class being necessary depends on the regex language being used12:35
Chipacaand adding a backslash just makes it harder to read12:35
Chipacaso leave it without12:35
davidcalleChipaca, I was more concerned about the lack of + at the end12:36
Chipacagive me a minute12:37
Chipacadavidcalle: the documentation in the project is correct12:38
Chipacadavidcalle: can you change the documentation on the website to match the one in the project?12:38
davidcalleChipaca, yep12:38
Chipacait describes the version field thus: β€œthe version of the snap (only `[a-zA-Z0-9.+~-]` are allowed)”12:38
Chipacathe description of the name *is* missing a quantifier, and has no wording to avoid the absence12:39
Chipacabut the version one is correct thanks to the language :)12:39
Chipacainterestingly, it doesn't look like we enforce this in the client12:42
davidcalleChipaca, I've fixed the regexes and added a link to the full format reference we also have on the site (which is an export of the in-package doc)12:52
Chipacadouble plus good12:52
Chipacadavidcalle: are your changes live?12:53
davidcalleChipaca, they are12:59
Chipacadavidcalle: hm. you changed the regex for the version, but not the wording, meaning it's wrong; if you're going to word it like that you need to change the regexp12:59
Chipacadavidcalle: version should match ^[a-zA-Z0-9.+~-]+$13:00
davidcalleChipaca, oh right, I see what you mean match/allowed13:00
Chipacaactually, it'd probably be a good idea to force version to not start with a period, but that can wait13:01
Chipacaget out of the smartassery of creating a package with version ".."13:01
Chipacai'll file a bug13:02
=== elopio_ is now known as elopio
vmayoral|pcogra_: ping14:44
ogra_vwhey hey+14:45
ogra_vmayoral|pc, hey hey14:45
vmayoral|pcogra_: hope everything's going fine14:46
vmayoral|pci'd like to run through you some thoughts if that's fine14:46
vmayoral|pcso, we've been putting a lot of time into creating a ROS framework for snappy that allows developers to create snaps that use ROS14:48
vmayoral|pcso far results look quite promising but we are constantly twisting things to basically fit everything in the writable partition (instead of touching system-a)14:50
vmayoral|pci quite like the approach followed here http://www.piware.de/2015/01/snappy-package-for-robot-operating-system-tutorial/ with a chroot. Would you recommend doing so or would you rather resize the partitions (e.g.: assign 2 GB to system-a so that it can contain libboost and other necessary libraries)14:54
vmayoral|pcfor the general developer (familiar with ROS) the second approach would work better but maybe the first one is preferrable from a Snappy perspective?14:55
ogra_vmayoral|pc, i personally would perfer to be able to independenly upgrade core from the ros ...15:07
ogra_so keep ROS a snap ... this also saves you from tinkering with partitions15:07
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
ogra_vmayoral|pc, did you talk to pitti about it yet (he wrote that howto) ... probably he feels like making it an official snap in the store15:21
ogra_(i see he is not around though)15:21
vmayoral|pcogra_: that makes sense, i'll try to reach him at some other time then, thanks15:24
ogra_hey pitti :)15:29
pittihey ogra_ :)15:29
vmayoral|pcpitti: i was asking ogra_ about his opinion for ROS support on snaps15:32
vmayoral|pcwe've been putting a lot of time twisting things to get everything in the writable partition but your approach seems pretty handy as well. I'm just concerned about the traditional ROS users that would expect everything under /opt...15:33
pittivmayoral|pc: yeah, I wish snappy wouldn't change the entire FHS, but right now we can't have /opt15:35
pittivmayoral|pc: however, with the specified "private overlay mounts", snaps can actually put stuff wherever they want again, including /opt (just visible within the snap's mount namespace)15:35
vmayoral|pcthat's interesting15:36
vmayoral|pcpitti: what we are trying to do, besides releasing a snap with a ROS distro15:38
vmayoral|pci to release the whole chroot15:38
vmayoral|pcso that users can develop/compile their own packages in the BBB15:38
vmayoral|pcpitti: how do you feel about this? (what we are trying to avoid here is that a developer  compiles from source all the ROS packages every time they want to develop something on top of ROS)15:41
tbrdoes anyone happen to know if this has made it into some image that I could test? https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy-ubuntu/+bug/1425370 - after all it says merged16:15
tbror short of that, how do I build my own image16:15
tbrdisregard the second question, just remembered that tit's impossible.16:16
ogra_not impossible :)16:17
ogra_but really hard to set up16:17
ogra_tbr, it says "In Progress" ...16:18
ogra_so it did not land anywhere yet16:18
tbrogra_: "factually impossible, especially for me"16:18
tbrogra_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy-ubuntu/+bug/142537016:19
tbr Merged into lp:goget-ubuntu-touch at revision 17216:19
ogra_you look at the wron thing :)16:19
ogra_(teh code is merged, but not released anywhere yet)16:19
ogra_look higher up :)16:20
tbrok, so the answer to my initial question is no then16:20
ogra_right, as long as the bug status is not "Fix Released" it wont be in any image16:20
tbrogra_: so even if there would be a CI image from something that is tracking trunk it would be "fix released"?16:21
ogra_usually as soon as someone uploads the deb for it he will set it to that16:22
ogra_or the launchpad automation will ... deducted from a changelog entry16:22
tbrI'm not a complete moron, even if it might look like it. I'm just unfamiliar with the ways of working, so I end up asking questions to verify my understanding. I'm terribly sorry for that.16:22
tbrok. so I'll watch that bug to go into released.16:23
ogra_huh ? i didnt mean to attack you or something16:24
tbrnot taken as such. it's just whenever I try to ask questions to understand processes someone goes "duh, y u no see, it obviuz". That doesn't get me any closer to understanding how things work as I feel that me asking questions that get me closer is unwelcome16:25
ogra_totally not unwelcome16:27
ogra_just ask away :)16:27
tbris there such a thing as a description of the usual workflow in ubuntu? I really have a hard time as I only see web interfaces here and there and then there is lots of non-obvious glue and magic that confuses me.16:30
ogra_tbr, well, the usual workflow is to have a bug ... if the bug applies to multiple places (i.e. yours is against a package and a toplevel project (system image)) ass the respective tasks ... if someopne does a merge on launchpad mentioning that bug you see the branches in the bug (with their state ... i.e. merged in your case) ... if i am a clever developer, i mention the bug in my .deb cahngelog so that as16:43
ogra_ soon as i upload LP will automatically close the bug task for this package16:43
tbrogra_: yeah, that bit I understood. Just wondering if there is "Ubuntu workflows for outsiders" or something like that. A coherent document that would explain most cases. Would also save us both lots of questions/answers and time16:48
ogra_yeah, i'm not sure there is ...16:49
ogra_technically it all boils down to launchpad merge proposales nowadays, the bugs are just the accompanying paperwork16:50
ogra_i.e. you find an issue ... file a bug, grab the source tree, write a patch and push to a private branch that you proposed for merging via the LP UI16:51
ogra_oh, and private in the sense of "owned by you" not meaning "secret branch"16:52
kyrofasergiusens, can I access the webdm API discussed in the README after snappy install-ing webdm? Or do I need something else?18:08
=== j12t_ is now known as j12t
tbrogra_: sure, but then where does a merge get released to, who decides that, how do debs get built, where are they accessible, etc. there's a pile of knowledge that is completely indiscoverable to a newcomer. :-(18:20
rsalvetitbr: we have a lot of docs all around, for ubuntu you can check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment20:56
rsalvetialso feel free to ping the community team and dholbach when he's around20:57
rsalvetihttps://developer.ubuntu.com/en/ has a lot of info as well, but mostly when building apps and such20:58

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