[12:42] <brousch> greg-g is rich! http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/05/11/1229222/study-reveals-wikimedia-foundation-is-awash-in-money
[12:56] <_stink_> and he is also ver handsome and talented
[12:57] <rick_h_> well he was hiring
[12:57] <rick_h_> there you go :)
[13:15] <jrwren> its sad this made it on /. since it isn't new news, its old news.
[13:15] <jrwren> the "stop giving to wikipedia" has been around for a while.
[13:15] <jrwren> and both linked articles are from Dec. /. fail.
[13:17] <rick_h_> I never get why 'they have some $$ stop giving' thing is so out there
[13:19] <jrwren> well over 100, looks like 200+ http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff_and_contractors at $100k/ea, which is way too low for reasonable living in northern california, that is 20M$/yr. Suddenly that 50M looks low.
[13:20] <cmaloney> rick_h_: I've never understood the whole "you should be struggling if you're asking for money" bit.
[13:35] <jrwren> yeah, look at the Komen Foundation. :)
[13:36] <_stink_> zingggg
[13:40] <jrwren> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Software_Foundation#Financials  half million dollars to write evil java code! stop giving. :)
[13:44] <brousch> I would keep giving even if they have money. Once they get a big enough stockpile they can engage in projects they couldn't before
[14:03] <jrwren> brousch: exactly!
[14:03] <jrwren> i just recently noticed audio clips on wikipedia pages about bands. Totally sweet.
[14:03] <cmaloney> Dammit, something happened an my GTD list is now a 0 length file
[14:03] <cmaloney> and the backup is also a 0 length file.
[14:03] <brousch> I mean, if I didn't support them, I wouldn't be giving them money to beging with. What's the point of stopping support?
[14:03] <brousch> cmaloney: Restore from your cloud backup
[14:03] <cmaloney> brousch: I'm restoring from my local backup
[14:04] <cmaloney> synology
[14:04] <cmaloney> and yes, i need a cloud backup
[14:04] <brousch> barbaric!
[14:04] <cmaloney> Might check out tarsnap
[14:41] <greg-g> that $2.5 million/year number is way low
[14:42] <greg-g> jrwren: not all engineers make over $100k at WMF
[14:42] <greg-g> we pay around 50th percentile of non-profit wages
[14:43] <brousch> How do you live in SF for under $100,000?
[14:43] <greg-g> it ain't easy
[14:44] <greg-g> at CC I made $85k, at WMF I started out at more than that but not a ton, I was promoted last summer so I'm OK now, but, it's not easy
[14:44] <cmaloney> You have to huddle around each other to catch the stray oxygen folks exhale.
[14:45] <greg-g> when a 2 bedroom apartment costs $2500... it's tough
[14:46] <brousch> ouch
[14:46] <cmaloney> when you have to sublet your bathroom to make ends meet...
[14:46] <jrwren> greg-g: it doesn't matter. i'd hope many engineers make well over $100k. A little over $100k seems a reasonable median for estimation.
[14:47] <brousch> Is there airbnb for potties?
[14:48] <greg-g> jrwren: minimum software engineer salary in SF (by law) is $85k
[14:49] <greg-g> jrwren: I know we pay minimum for a few entry-level positions
[14:49] <greg-g> our previous Deputy Director (2nd in command) made $140 or 150, I forget
[14:49] <greg-g> and previous ED made $200k
[14:50] <greg-g> (not sure what new one makes)
[14:50] <cmaloney> Yah, I'd want to be paid in CA wages and live in MI. ;)
[14:50] <jrwren> minimum by law? how does that work?
[14:50] <cmaloney> jrwren: You forget that CA is the prototype for AA
[14:51] <cmaloney> all sorts of labor laws and what-not.
[14:51] <jrwren> cmaloney: oh man, I WISH AA would set minimum pay, but then business would move to just outside AA
[14:51] <jrwren> that kind of thing works better ate state level
[14:51] <cmaloney> True dat
[14:51] <brousch> And in big states where you can't communite in/ou easily
[14:52] <cmaloney> and unfortunately Detroit / AA is an island of liberal in a sea of conservative
[14:52] <jrwren> ugh, don't remind me. Our state congress makes me angry
[14:52] <greg-g> jrwren: you can pay city minimum wages :)
[14:52] <cmaloney> jrwren: About the only thing our state congress could do that would make me happy is not show up
[14:52] <greg-g> jrwren: SF's minimum wage is 9 or $10/hr, for instance, while CA's is only 9 or something
[14:53] <cmaloney> Anything more and they manage to fuck things up
[14:53] <greg-g> er, "you can MAKE city minimum wages"
[14:53]  * greg-g just woke up
[14:53] <cmaloney> Yeah, like Detroit City taxes
[14:53] <cmaloney> Cities have certain powers.
[14:54] <cmaloney> most choose not to though
[14:54] <cmaloney> SF is the exception because SF is always the exception
[14:54] <greg-g> yep
[14:54] <greg-g> everyone wants to be here, even going to south bay or oakland is a second choice for most, so the minimum wage actually works
[14:54] <greg-g> (city-specific minimum wage, that is)
[16:37] <cmaloney> rick_h_: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/403524037/autonomous-desk-the-smartest-office-desk-yet-power/description
[16:41] <jrwren> did much of ya'll order a CHIP ?
[16:41] <cmaloney> I thought about it but passed
[16:42] <cmaloney> I already have two Pis and a BBB that I struggle to find uses
[16:42] <jrwren> cmaloney: when I saw integrated wifi and BT, I was won over.
[16:42] <jrwren> and 3.7v
[16:43] <cmaloney> jrwren: I'll have to see it then
[16:43] <cmaloney> if I miss the kickstarter I won't be upset
[16:43] <jrwren> i don't think it ships until december. I'll show you in about a year :)
[16:43] <cmaloney> but if they don't sell them afterward I'll be bummed
[16:43] <jrwren> me too
[17:04] <rick_h_> cmaloney: no walking component :P
[17:04]  * rick_h_ has no idea what CHIP is so nope
[17:04] <cmaloney> rick_h_: Oh, then it's completely defective. :)
[17:04] <rick_h_> cmaloney: pretty much :)
[17:05] <cmaloney> CHIP is a $9 single-board computer
[17:05] <rick_h_> interesting, no cross stretcher on that desk
[17:05] <rick_h_> not sure about that
[17:06] <cmaloney> with options for incorporating into a $49 LCd / keyboard docking portable unit
[17:06]  * rick_h_ wouldn't trust that design 
[17:06] <brousch> cmaloney: My current rpi/bb project is a stereoscopic remote presence robot with a google cardboard app
[17:06] <cmaloney> Yeah, it looks like a Gallant
[17:06] <cmaloney> brousch: that is awesome.
[17:06] <rick_h_> so in my desk the motor is on one side and there's a wrench to move the two ends in sync with a stretcher across the legs to provide side to side rigidity
[17:11] <jrwren> brousch: please tell me more. sounds likea  sweet robot.
[17:13] <brousch> Building on the single webcam rpi stuff I did last year. The rpi will have 2 webcams placed eye-width apart. they will stream over the network, probably mjpeg. I'll then build a kivy app which puts the streams side by side so using google cardboard it will be 3D
[17:13] <brousch> well, stereoscopic
[17:13] <cmaloney> That's pretty sweet
[17:13] <brousch> Next steps would be controls to turn the "head" by moving the cardboard
[17:13] <jrwren> oh! that is what google cardboard is :)
[17:14] <brousch> cardboard is ghetto oculus rift
[17:14] <brousch> then mount it on a rolling robot to move it around
[17:15] <brousch> Then mount the eyes on a slider so you can spread them farther apart for trippy experiences
[17:17] <cmaloney> And if the bot goes down the stairs you can have a really trippy experience.
[17:18] <brousch> hah
[17:19] <brousch> I wonder if I could get far enough along to be comfortable with submitting it to pyohio (may 15)
[17:19] <cmaloney> Give yoursef a deadline
[17:20] <cmaloney> Worst case you'll have to cancel
[17:20] <brousch> Well my deadline is may 15
[17:20] <brousch> I think if I can make both streams work and at least 1 show on a basic kivy app I'll be ok
[19:00] <rick_h_> interesting https://twitter.com/Osmose/status/598189285217406976
[19:01] <cmaloney> Can't argue
[19:38] <cmaloney> http://crashworks.org/if_programming_languages_were_vehicles/
[19:41] <brousch> Not bad
[19:44] <cmaloney> Yeah, though I think C++ is a little off
[19:44] <cmaloney> Should be a tank in a swamp.
[19:50] <jrwren> C++ would never be a vehicle, its a trick analogy!
[19:53] <jrwren> or... C++ would be a tesla model S :)
[19:53] <cmaloney> jrwren: More like a box of parts that you can roll downhill
[19:55] <jrwren> hrm... ok, C++98 is a box of parts. C++17 is a tesla model S :)
[20:06] <cmaloney> I dunno. I've never thought of C++ as a particularly great language. It always feels like a hassle to use.
[20:07] <cmaloney> Like adding a 12ft high spoiler to an otherwise performant sportscar.
[20:11] <jrwren> modern c++ is very nice.
[20:11] <jrwren> the problem is legacy
[23:08] <tony-smlr> MUG Meeting Live now!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLaMELLDTac  DNS in the Enterprise and TarSanp