[00:43] good evening folks [00:43] Well hey! It's a bluesabre! [00:50] oh hey, we have abiword/gnumeric/libreoffice/gimp all installed [00:50] how'd that happen :\ [00:50] You updated the seed without the meta, right? [00:51] yeah, updated the seed the other day before the meta branch was available [00:51] Tadaaaa. [00:51] so I'm just surpised to see LO there with everything else [00:51] Not really. [00:52] time to dig in :) [00:55] Need anything? [00:58] not sure yet, you going to go hide? [00:58] :) [00:58] can't blame you ;) [00:59] Well, it's hot so there's that, and I do have my summer headache. :P [01:00] germinate is dying hard [01:00] http://paste.ubuntu.com/11087597/ [01:01] suppose I can go edit the code and learn more [01:01] wiley? [01:01] yeah [01:01] er [01:01] !wily [01:01] Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) will be the 23rd release of Ubuntu. Discussion in #ubuntu+1 [01:01] ah [01:01] dang it [01:01] :p [01:02] * Unit193 tazes bluesabre. [01:02] * bluesabre deserves it [01:06] ok, you can go away Unit193, germinate is smarter when I type correctly [01:06] hah. [01:14] ahhhhh http://paste.ubuntu.com/11087738/ [01:17] * Unit193 had forgotten about gimp actually passing. [02:12] Unit193: still around [02:12] ? [02:16] No. [02:18] too late [02:18] :D [02:18] now to figure out how to set -tango as the default scheme in x-d-s [02:21] Doesn't by default? [02:21] dunno [02:21] might prefer some other by default [02:21] galaxy is the one lo ships with [02:21] And we have galaxy? [02:22] looks like tango does get default [02:22] so thats pleasant [02:22] good to see that lo is smart in that regard [02:22] Now to keep -math and -base out. :P [02:23] sound like fun [02:23] blacklist magic? [02:23] I don't remember being explicit about which I install, and libreoffice-style-tango is installed. [02:23] Sure galaxy is default? :P [02:23] * bluesabre doesn't know anymore [02:24] -tango is default on today's image [02:24] so thats a good sign at least [02:25] and base is not installed, just math to deal with [02:25] is that possible to get rid of, I think that power's writer's latex ability [02:26] seems to be [02:26] need to stop writing before I test things [02:26] :D [02:26] It's a seperate thing. [02:26] gotcha [02:27] so, just blacklist -math might do the trick [02:27] Doubt it, but hey. [02:28] heyyyyy [02:28] How you doin'? ;) [02:29] blacklist is kind of useless, just makes sure something isn't selected as part of the task, not whether it's installed or not. [02:29] ah [02:29] Only way to nicely do that is to create an xubuntu-blacklists package that conflicts (which I'd love, but that'd make micahg very unhappy, understandably so.) [02:29] ah [02:30] a [02:30] :D [02:30] well, we can hack on it and figure something out in the next few days [02:31] I'd like to get gnome-user-guide and -math out, maybe some others, but oh well. [02:31] when we start with the blueprints, get those on there :) [02:32] * micahg suggests leaving math as it's small [02:33] * bluesabre waves at micahg [02:33] I think we also lose a version of webkit now as well [02:33] hi bluesabre [02:33] Oh what dropped it? [02:33] gimp [02:33] unless that was patched [02:33] And yeah, understandable if that needed gtk2 webkit, ubiquity needs the other. [02:34] oh, looks like that was patched out already, nevermind [02:35] Anywho, just pointed out you'd not like -blacklist at all, didn't want to bother you too much. :P [02:35] thanks [02:36] I'm slightly concerned about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application-gtk2/12.10.0.1-0ubuntu3, ISTR we had an issue with the indicator gtk2 and gtk3 packages installing the same service [02:37] we could just install the service in a separate binary that mate could seed [02:38] or maybe it doesn't break anymore, idk, but it's something that should be tested [02:38] yeah, we did have an issue with that and at least one of the indicators [02:38] I'll be sure to take a look at that [02:38] thanks [02:38] indicator-*-gtk2 need to go away as they don't really work well. :3 [02:39] well, as soon as all the panel plugins are gtk3 it can go, right? [02:40] We don't use it ourselves, not sure it even works in Lubuntu but LXQt will make it of no use, so it's just MATE. [02:40] not sure, I was thinking that package was support for gtk2 panels [02:40] Yes. [02:41] xfce4-indicator-plugin is gtk3. [02:41] xfce panel wraps gtk2 and gtk3 and has escaped the issue [02:41] oh, we're not using it anymore [02:41] * micahg apparently is working with out of date info... [02:41] seeded-in-ubuntu indicator-application-gtk2 [02:41] indicator-application-gtk2 (from indicator-application-gtk2) is seeded in: [02:41] lubuntu: daily, daily-live [02:44] hum, so lubuntu is using both... [02:44] Using, or shipping? :) [02:44] daily/daily-live [02:44] lxpanel-indicator-applet-plugin Depends: libgtk2.0-0 [02:45] Ah right, yeah they still use alternates. [02:46] bluesabre: Oooh, going to email -permissions soon? :3 [02:47] re xfce? [02:47] what's the question? [02:47] Yep, bluesabre. [02:47] wanting to get an xfce packageset [02:47] do we need an xfce and xubuntu? [02:48] xfce would include stuff we don't ship, nor plan to. [02:48] ^ [02:48] do we want to support t? [02:49] I'm one of the xfce devs, so it feels kinda natural for me [02:49] :) [02:49] Sean/(eventually I) would like access to it, at least. Like xfce4-time-out-plugin, -eyes-plugin, thunar-dropbox, xfdashboard, etc. [02:49] if xubuntu wants to support the xfce packages we're not shipping, just add them to the supported seed [02:50] if xubuntu doesn't want to support them, then there could be a case for a packageset [02:51] we'd want to maintain them, but not ship them [02:51] I believe that's the purpose of the supported seed [02:51] Fancy.. [02:52] aha [02:52] somehow missed that all this time :) [02:52] Do they have to already exist in the archive? [02:53] yes [02:53] need a sync? [02:53] We're planning on bringing in xfdashboard and xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin for wily. [02:54] they're not in Debian either, right? [02:54] Right. [02:55] ok, well, the flavor packagesets are updated semi-regularly, so whenever they make it in the archive, they can be added to supported [02:55] I think the Ubuntu supported seed is a better guide for what's possible [02:56] bluesabre: Time to trim d/changelog, update vcs, and upload? [02:59] seems so [02:59] micahg: thanks for the pointers, I'll take a look at that in the coming days [03:01] http://paste.openstack.org/show/FGxfJj2w18rSHySndG7f [03:02] tidy [03:02] If you're good, I'll commit and be done. :D [03:04] looks good to me [03:05] do we have a needs-packaging bug for that one? we can start poking and maybe get micahg to +1 it [03:05] * micahg suggests uploading to Debian... [03:06] bluesabre: Puuushed. [03:08] Unit193: let's get it into pkg-xfce then :) [03:08] Goooooood luck.. [03:09] * bluesabre will try to get himself closer to pkg-xfce [03:10] hrm, I thouhgt I had access at some point, apparently I don't [03:10] https://alioth.debian.org/projects/pkg-xfce [03:11] bluesabre: So we, Xubuntu, would like to maintain it under the pkg-xfce umbrella or what? I figure I'll try talking to Corsac. [03:11] micahg: Yeah, SVN. :/ [03:11] s/would like/would be willing/ [03:12] yeah [03:12] since its an "official" xfce project now, should be easier [03:15] I wonder if Corsac would add me if I just clicked the request to join button... [03:15] worth a shot :) [03:19] We need to figure out the svn workflow. :/ [03:20] I've done it a bit before with pkg-xfce [03:20] er [03:20] python [03:20] :D [03:20] PAPT [03:21] I have not. \o/ [03:21] bluesabre: Both xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin and xfdashboard are now waiting and ready for wily! [03:22] http://anonscm.debian.org/viewvc/pkg-xfce/desktop/trunk/ [03:22] Yep, exactly... [03:22] git is better... [03:23] !svn is better [03:23] bluesabre: cvs? [03:23] ah [03:23] nvm [03:23] <3 git [03:23] I'll take git, hg, or even bzr. [03:24] bluesabre: Think we can con micahg into uploading? [03:24] Unit193: did my GPG key magically make it into the Debian keyring? [03:25] micahg: I meant Ubuntu. :P [03:25] it's early, any reason we can't go through Debian? [03:28] no reason, just ubuntu is easier. We'll get it into debian [03:28] Pretty much... [03:29] bluesabre: Since you're there, gonna ask? [03:30] actually, was going to bed now [03:30] Awwh, sleepy Seany. [03:30] but I can ask tomorrow after Corsac sees my pkg-xfce join request [03:30] Hah, well alright. Good luck sir, and good luck sleeping.. [03:31] thanks [03:31] good luck sleeping, or drinking coffee, or recharging, whichever you do :D [03:32] if we get closer to alpha 1 and it's not in, we can look at going through Ubuntu, otherwise, I'd much prefer going through Debian [03:32] bluesabre: FWIW, last I knew he wasn't interested in thunar-dropbox. [03:33] we can try again [03:33] and I can put my seal of approval on it [03:33] (It's in Debian already, but my package. Feel free though!) [03:33] if thats worth anything [03:33] :D [03:33] G'night, sleep well. [07:17] Speaking of which, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, new version, PPA'd. [07:24] Unit193: in one of the team ppa's or yours [07:24] elfy: xubuntu-dev/extras to be exact, team ppa. [07:24] oh - don't use that one [07:25] just the staging and dev one [07:25] Makes sense, those aren't in the real repo yet. [07:25] I guess if we're going to move to that it'll end up on one of the 2 eventually [09:20] so i think xfce looks slick [09:20] * xnox ponders to switch from unity [09:21] Nice! We try out best. [09:21] xnox go for it baby :P [11:09] wow! snap to corner! [11:09] yes! i want that! [11:10] * xnox ponders if i can still have all of my indicators [11:10] and the xfce panels seem to overlap badly horum. [11:10] * xnox kind of likes unity launcher - which is combination of favorites & current windows [11:16] Thought there was a panel plugin for that... [11:18] * xnox ponders how much stuff will break if I keep ubuntu-desktop installed and install xubuntu-desktop on top. [11:18] Not sure if it's one of the things you liked, but there's xfdashboard. Also, if you're going to do that, I'd recommend xubuntu-core over xubuntu-desktop. [11:27] ok. and i'll study shiny things that i'm missing, just by inspecting the seeds. [11:28] Unity likes indicators, xfce likes panel plugins. :P [11:32] ok, it looks mostly ok [11:32] i did "xubuntu session" rather than "xfce session" [11:33] a few things give away that i have dual stack installed.... e.g. panel indicators are just plain weird. [11:33] but it's ok [11:33] however, the panel doesn't duplicate on to dual-screen =( [11:40] ok worked it out, i think [11:55] today's image, is this the same issue we were having before with the install freezing on restart? http://i.imgur.com/2NlabKo.png [11:56] live runs fine, install looks good, just the restart bit [11:57] gotta run now... [11:58] pleia2: sorry I can't make it to the meeting, but I hope you get a lot of attendance from the others :) [11:58] everyone else, seed updated last night, so now we have removed abiword/gnumeric/gimp and have libreoffice writer/calc/math [11:59] bbl [12:31] bluesabre: not tried for a few days - but restart was same as before - fail in vm [12:51] horum. i don't like it. [12:51] ended up making it look like unity [12:51] and there are annoying things about it - lack of global menu, multi-monitor panels, and so on. [12:52] e.g. i have a panel for each of the dual monitors, but i need to add things to whisker menu "favourites" twice.... per each screen =( === holstein_ is now known as holstein [17:57] almost meeting time [17:57] almost [18:00] #startmeeting [18:00] Meeting started Tue May 12 18:00:31 2015 UTC. The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [18:00] hello! who all is here for the xubuntu community meeting? [18:00] piskie is [18:01] o/ elfy [18:01] I guess we'll wait a couple minutes for the crowds to gather [18:01] yep [18:02] !team | meeting time! [18:02] meeting time!: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster, Unit193 [18:03] Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings#Agenda [18:03] lots about ... [18:04] #topic Open action items [18:04] elfy to draft an EOL announcement (with other flavors) [18:04] that was done :) [18:04] yea [18:04] xubuntu-docs to throw the ball around about the FAQ articles [18:05] dunno about that one [18:05] (which is also our first agenda item) [18:05] there was a mail to the list [18:05] yeah, last month [18:05] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-April/010697.html [18:05] bluesabre replied - no-one else did [18:05] * pleia2 nods [18:06] can't remember positively - but think there was some discussion in channel and a sort of acceptance it might be a good thing [18:06] wfm [18:06] but - given it was a knome - might be better to just move on today [18:06] * pleia2 nods [18:06] *thinh [18:06] that was it for open action items [18:06] #topic Team updates [18:06] lol [18:06] I don't have anything [18:07] #info QA started to plan Wily [18:07] yay [18:07] that's it :p [18:07] :) [18:07] alright, on to agenda items [18:08] Rebooting the FAQ articles is on the list, but no knome or docs people, so maybe we bump until next meeting [18:08] wfm [18:08] Package testing, anyone? [18:08] well yes :D [18:08] #topic Package testing [18:08] so - this is bluesabre and my position [18:08] http://pastebin.com/Q4KEDumc [18:09] which boils down to lets not bother this cycle [18:09] http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases [18:09] is what got tested and reported to the tracker last cycle [18:09] I will move forward assuming that we are NOT going to bother with packages.qa.ubuntu.com [18:10] makes sense [18:10] unless someone pipes up with a reasonable reason as to why we should [18:10] but - kind of plan in the paste referenced above = mail list and ping social media if and when we've got a specific testing need [18:11] * pleia2 nods [18:11] done on that [18:11] people seem more excited when we do it that way anyway, wall-of-package-tests is less fun [18:11] indeed [18:11] alright [18:11] #topic Milestones to take part in [18:11] :) [18:12] so the simple question is do we start at Beta again - or earlier - or play it by ear and see what happens pre Alpha [18:12] yeah [18:12] #action elfy to mail -dev list re Milestone participation during Wily cycle [18:12] ACTION: elfy to mail -dev list re Milestone participation during Wily cycle [18:13] ++ [18:13] pleia2: you can move on then if you like now :) [18:13] #topic QA Incentive [18:13] so, last cycle we tried plying people with stickers to do QA [18:13] ooh look - another one I need to be about for :p [18:13] it failed [18:13] and you :D [18:13] yep [18:14] I've been reading this book recently and I think I know why http://www.danpink.com/drive/ [18:14] and given the time involved - not particularly interested in investing those hours and hours once more [18:14] people don't do this kind of thing to be awarded $15 in stickers [18:14] and offering it kind of devalues the whole process [18:15] most of the people who "won" stickers each time were surprised, one only accepted so he could give to his students/colleagues [18:15] so, oops :) [18:15] maybe so - but on the other hand - asking people to do it - failed too [18:15] indeed [18:15] perhaps the best thing would be for me to actually follow through on last cycles threat [18:16] so in learning more about motivation, I learned that the best thing we can do is give incentives that improve their rank in our dev community [18:16] stickers meh, noting & thanking people who are doing well in QA on social media and stuff has social capital that is valuable to these kinds of contributors [18:16] elfy: stepping down? [18:17] don't do that :) [18:17] that implies getting people involved - which is just aas much an uphill struggle [18:17] pleia2: lol - no - I told ochosi I would be here for Wily - and by extension X too - wouldn't drop anyone in that [18:17] it is, but we don't have a choice really, it needs to be done, QA test won't do themselves! [18:17] oh ok :) <3 [18:18] not mark things ready if not tested enough- even if it is Release Candidate [18:18] ah, yes [18:18] that would probably encourage more testing from the team, I hope [18:18] which needs to happen, I didn't do any tests last cycle :( [18:18] well - you know my position on that [18:19] if I can't expect the people putting their name on the release - how am I supposed to expect anyone else to do so [18:19] indeed [18:19] anyway - wording change from drc off channel re previous statement [18:20] s/rank/standing/ sounds better, more "comunity" than "team" [18:20] I don't have permission to paste it in a logged meeting [18:20] oh ok :) [18:20] and yeah, words [18:20] he can slap me if he wants to [18:20] anyway - yes - in theory that's great [18:21] but what do we do to move from theory to reality [18:21] ultimately, my goal with this agenda item was to review what we did, why it went bad and see if we can come up with better ideas moving forward [18:21] frankly - the QA team is probably the easiest one to move into - and thence TEAM [18:21] yeah [18:21] well that's fine in and of itself as a goal [18:22] but MY problem is *now* not in 3 months :) [18:22] and if iirc - one of the reasons in that 'team' [18:22] (the QA team) [18:22] * pleia2 nods [18:23] alright, well I think it's decided that we won't do a formalized sticker thing again [18:23] I'd say that this topic is probably best dealt with in m/l [18:23] yea - I'm rather implacably -1 on doing that again [18:24] want me to write an email re: incentives to the list? [18:24] I think so - perhaps get the discussion moving at least - follow up with a more detailed review - if that's even possible - later [18:24] wfm [18:25] #action pleia2 to email list re: QA and incentives [18:25] ACTION: pleia2 to email list re: QA and incentives [18:25] we can start from the Marketing won't send them, QA won't give Marketing the data anyway stance :p [18:25] hehe [18:25] it was a fun experiment, but I don't think there will be any complaints about ending it [18:26] nope [18:26] #topic Announcements & Discussion [18:26] anything else? [18:26] not from me [18:26] yeah, I'm all set [18:26] ok [18:26] #action Unit193 to schedule next meeting [18:26] ACTION: Unit193 to schedule next meeting [18:27] have a nice week :) [18:27] #endmeeting [18:27] Meeting ended Tue May 12 18:27:15 2015 UTC. [18:27] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-05-12-18.00.moin.txt [18:27] woo, half hour until my next meeting [18:27] but as I really going to want to be a bit twitchy about getting things set up - if Unit193 wants to swap with me - that is fine by me [18:28] :) [18:28] I'll try to do post-meeting tasks after work today, unless someone gets to them first [18:29] pleia2: if I get time I'll try and fight through it - if I do I'll let you know in channel [18:29] k :) [18:52] elfy: You want the next meeting you say? [19:00] Unit193: not so much want it - depends when you set it for [19:08] pleia2: think I have done it all [19:08] elfy: thank you, sir! [19:09] never having seen a "this is the post-meeting tasks" document I wouldn't be sure though :D [19:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes/Community#Meetings :) [19:10] oh - never read that stuff [19:11] hahah [19:12] not done team report [19:13] nothing to report atm [19:14] yeah, I usually do that in bulk at some point anyway [19:17] lol [19:18] biab [19:42] Unit193: which sounds like a trick question ... [20:11] elfy: Well I'm up for whatever makes it better for you (well, not whatever. I won't do both meetings!) [20:11] bluesabre: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/205835987/buildlog_ubuntu-wily-i386.xfce4-smartbookmark-plugin_0.4.6-1_BUILDING.txt.gz ftbfs, patch! [20:12] Unit193: ha ha ha [20:12] I guess I'd swap if you set it for June [20:13] Oh, I was going to set it for July. [20:13] lol [20:14] yea - that's what I meant - August [20:15] 28th is looking decent. [20:16] of? [20:16] september [20:16] works for me :) [20:17] already appear to have a broken Wily install \o/ [20:17] that's the quickest for a long time :p [20:18] hah [20:19] 90s to reboot while it fails to do something, the clean install I did an hour ago is fine [22:21] Unit193: oh nooooooooooooooooooes [22:21] heh [22:21] I saw that last night [22:22] hey micahg [22:22] didn't get a chance to do anything about it yet [22:22] hi bluesabre [22:22] I'll poke it now [22:22] * Unit193 scratches head. [22:23] source format 3 requires defuzzed patches IIRC [22:23] Yep. [22:23] easy fix most likely [22:23] not sure why Debian is different though [22:23] Not only unfuzzed, but no offset. [22:23] micahg: ubuntu.series. [22:24]