GroklingCurly one for you guys.. I've just been looking at 15.4, thought I'd install it and see how it went on my desktop. BUT, there's no mouse pointer (I can tell it's there, because there are a couple of mouseover responses) To make matters worse, the installer isn't keyboard friendly beyond the first screen. Any ideas what's up with the invisible pointer? Graphics issue perhaps? The installer doesn't seem to be running in full screen (not sure if it08:39
Grokling should?)08:39
GroklingNot sure how I can even troubleshoot it at such an early stage?08:39
mgedminugh, sounds painful08:41
mgedminwhat's the video hardware on this machine?08:41
mgedmin(the installer is not a full-screen app)08:41
mgedminanyway, missing mouse cursor is most likely a driver bug08:42
mgedmin*video driver08:42
GroklingI have two nvidia GT210 cards - real basic cards.. solid state, and they're not supported properly by the 'current' nvidia drivers - I needed to use the legacy drivers in mint for them to work properly.08:42
darkxstmissing cursor usually means gnome-setting-daemon, thinks the idle-monitor is missing08:44
GroklingI'm picking it's a driver bug/issue. But, how can I fix that if I can't install?08:44
mgedminlack of keyboard-friendliness also seems like a bug :/08:44
darkxstGrokling, log into live session, launch dconf-editor, goto org->gnome->settings-daemon->cursor and disable it08:46
GroklingI only started down this rabbit hole because latest chrome causes gpu freezes, which is fixed in a more recent kernel, and patched in a later mesa lib. so I updated both of those, and that broke my graphics spectacularly. I'm picking that ubuntugnome will have the same issue (same kernel, same mesa sources..)08:47
darkxstyou may also need to restart g-s-d with `gnome-settings-daemon -r`08:47
darkxstyes Chrome is crap08:47
Groklingokay.. so, live (after I managed to tab to it) started, and ALL of my screens work how they should (amazingly!)08:48
darkxstdo you have a mouse pointer?08:49
GroklingNope. Thanks to whoever set up the mouseover actions, I have a rough idea of where it is though..08:49
GroklingAaaactually.. I launched terminal, fired up dconf-editor, and now I have a mouse pointer. bizzare.08:50
Groklingorg->gnome->settings-daemon->[peripherals, plugins]  no cursor mentioned there.08:51
mgedminmouse pointer everywhere or just while it's over certain windows?08:51
GroklingI can see the cursor everywhere at the moment.08:52
darkxstthe cursor plugin was (its gone in 3.16) meant to only hide cursor on touchscreens, but if something goes wrong it can get confused08:53
GroklingOkay - well, since I have a mouse at the moment, I'm going to hit up the install and see how far I can get.08:54
GroklingYou're right though, not having a keyboard friendly installer is a minor problem for edge cases like me.08:54
mgedminit's a major problem for people with disabilities :(08:55
GroklingTrue that.08:56
GroklingOkay. Installed, and rebooted. Two of my screens have come 'on' (the #1 graphics card). But they're both entirely black. ctrl+alt+f2 gets me a tty which I can log into okay. Where to from here?09:26
Groklingtty seems to have proper resolution, and no black border which is a great start.09:27
mgedmindebugging nvidia issues is beyond my {area of expertise,patience}09:44
* mgedmin is buying laptops with intel video specifically to avoid nvidia09:44
Groklingamen to that. Although, I did buy a Dell, and it has nvidia (seems to work just fine though)09:49
GroklingSeems like the solution is to boot with nomodeset, then install the proprietary driver. Fingers crossed that it works!09:49
GroklingIt worked. Nearly. Now to make an xorg.conf that works..10:16
darkxstyou shouldnt really need an xorg anymore (and you may in fact find ubuntu overwrites if your try to make one)10:19
GroklingYou also shouldn't use nvidia graphics, or run four screens off one machine.. Because I need to use the proprietary driver, I have to use the proprietary tools to configure it. xorg.conf is the result. Just takes a little careful iteration, and I'll get there!10:26
GroklingAt least, I think I do. Not sure on the status of xrandr vs xinerama, or the likelihood that gnome is using compiz(which xinerama can't handle)10:31
mgedmingnome 3.x is using gnome-shell, which is not compiz11:10
mgedminxrandr is good, xinerama is sort-of-obsolete, but xrandr emulates it AFAIU11:11
mgedminI've heard that modern nvidia proprietary drivers support xrandr at last11:11
Groklingmgedmin, I'm not winning here..  If you know a mixture that'll work for me, I'm all ears. I have two nvidia GT210 1GB cards. I've had them running four screens up until recently. Can't manage to get ubuntu-gnome any further than two on the first GPU.11:52
GroklingI was using xinerama.11:52
darkxstGrokling, xinererama is gone11:54
darkxstatleast I think so, nvidia blobs support xrandr fully these days11:55
darkxstthat said I've never tried 2 GPU's11:55
GroklingOkay.. bring me to the future. I have the 340.76 driver, and I 'think' based on some results that xrandr 1.4 should be supported.11:55
darkxsthave 4 outputs on my 1 GPU11:56
Groklingdisplayport monitors?11:57
darkxstno, 2 DVI and 2 HDMI11:57
berglhare they all connected?11:57
darkxstits just a cheapo GTX75011:57
GroklingNice! I could only find ones that would take displayport when I was looking. So went with two cards.11:58
GroklingSo, xrandr.. how?11:58
berglhcan't you daisy chain display port?11:58
darkxstGrokling, paste xrandr -q11:58
darkxstor paste the result of the command even12:00
Groklingwill do - have to get it off that machine into the interwebs somehow.. It's coming..12:01
mgedminsudo apt-get install pastebinit12:01
mgedminxrandr -q | pastebinit12:01
mgedminthen copy the url here12:01
GroklingMission! Everything is tangled up.  Anyway: http://pastebin.com/Cj8v92S212:05
darkxstGrokling, xrandr only detects 1 card?12:06
darkxstso that is all gnome will see12:06
mgedminbtw what does "xrandr --version" say about the server RandR version?12:08
Groklingxrandr needs to look harder..  xrandr --list-providers sees one provider, with four outputs12:08
Groklingmgedmin, 1.412:08
mgedminthat's good12:08
mgedminI wonder if /var/log/Xorg.0.log contains anything useful12:09
darkxstGrokling, maybe you need to --set-offload or whatever the command is12:10
Groklingmgedmin, I can see the NVIDIA driver there, detects two GPUs. Apparently it can't use base mosaic on this chipset.12:11
darkxstthats how the hybrid setups work, maybe its similar for 2 nvidia gpus12:11
GroklingWhich explains why that doesn't work..12:12
Groklingvar/log/Xorg.0.log => http://paste.ubuntu.com/1111268312:14
darkxst[  4619.611] (EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0): Errors:12:15
darkxst[  4619.611] (EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0):     - Unsupported GPU12:15
darkxst[  4619.611] (EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0):     - Chipset not approved for SLI12:15
mgedmin"Please see Chapter 29 in the README" O.O12:16
mgedminthe README has *chapters* and there are *at least 29 of them*12:16
GroklingDo we need SLI for xrandr though?12:17
mgedminwhat even is SLI?12:17
darkxstGrokling, no, but you will need to setup xrandr offloading I suspect12:17
* mgedmin reads about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface12:18
darkxstmgedmin, its combines gpu's not well supported on lnux though12:18
mgedmintwo GPUs for one monitor, for better performance, AFAICU12:18
darkxstmgedmin, yes12:18
mgedminGrokling, do I understand it correctly that you have an Xorg.conf, and that it has only one Device section?12:20
darkxstin Grokling's case he probably wants --setprovideroutputsource and/or --setprovideroffloadsink12:20
Groklingoffloading:  "Version 1.4 of the X Resize, Rotate, and Reflect Extension (RandR 1.4 for short) adds a way for drivers to work together so that one graphics device can display images rendered by another"12:20
GroklingThat doesn't sound like it..12:20
* mgedmin googles up https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA#Multiple_monitors12:20
darkxstGrokling, of course it does12:21
mgedmin"While the documentation lists a 2x2 configuration of monitors, Nvidia has reduced that ability to just 3 monitors in Base Mosaic mode as of driver version 304" hahaha *weeps*12:21
darkxstxinerama and the hacks that came with are long gone afaik12:21
Groklingmgedmin, let me check that - I just flipped it to use xinerama (seeing as i know that's at least supported on these chips!) so xorg.conf just changed again.12:21
darkxstso you can either run two X server12:21
Groklinginterestingly xinerama spins up all my monitors, just doesn't paint them with anything.12:22
darkxstor use offloading12:22
darkxstGrokling, mutter relies on xrandr12:23
darkxstnot xinerame12:23
GroklingOk, so I'll forget about xinerama for now, and have a crack at this offloading business.12:24
Groklingokay, so, the example given there sets the nvidia device as the primary screen. I have two. Accordingly I'm a bit confused by the whole modesetting arrangement. Here's what I have so far: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1111300112:40
GroklingShould that nvidia2 device be using the modesetting driver?12:41
darkxstGrokling, you should only have one primary screen12:42
GroklingSo, set the other to inactive yeah?12:42
darkxstwell not primary12:42
darkxstyou really can't have two primary monitors that will break everything12:44
GroklingI thought that's what the screen 0 and screen 1 were about?12:45
GroklingFollowing the example in the docs, there's no busID for the second device, and no driver specified. Is there magic somewhere that 'guesses' that part?12:46
darkxstthat would be 2 X servers12:46
GroklingAh - makes sense. That's xinerama corrupting my thinking.12:46
Grokling4x X servers + xinerama.12:46
GroklingX screens at least.12:47
darkxstX screens are synomous with servers12:48
GroklingThis might be closer then? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1111308012:48
darkxstGrokling, you shouldnt need a xorg.conf to make this work12:50
darkxstthat said I have never actually had hardware to try personally12:50
GroklingSomehow we need to setup the offloading though? The docs say xorg.conf is the place for that? Seeing as xrandr isn't seeing the second GPU.12:51
GroklingI suspect that if xrandr could see it, it'd probably nearly work out of the box.12:51
darkxstGrokling, you said xrandr --list-providers sees it?12:52
darkxstGrokling, what nvidia driver version?12:55
darkxstGrokling, I'm out of ideas, really12:56
Groklingrats. I thought you were going to solve this with me! The offloading stuff that I've tried didn't work. "can't find provider with name modesetting"12:59
Groklingdarkxst, thanks for the help/time this far.13:00
darkxstGrokling, I am the head developer around here, but sometimes I can only guess13:01
darkxstI don't have an infinite supply of hardware13:02
darkxstin fact I have no supply of hardware13:02
GroklingHeh.. I might soon have a matching pair of GT210s looking for somewhere else to be if I can't make this work with contemporary software!13:03
darkxstnot about to try that stuff in my development machine13:04
mgedminwhat happens if you remove the xorg.conf altogether?13:05
GroklingSeems like xrandr needs sli AND base mosaic for a working setup.. neither of which is supported on this chipset.13:05
GroklingRemoving the xorg.conf gets me two screens on GPU-0, and nothing else. The other two are disabled.13:05
darkxstsli is a nvidia thing, nothing to do with xrandr13:06
Groklingre sli: https://www.martineve.com/2014/04/15/enabling-a-triple-head-3-monitor-setup-on-linux-mint-16-petra-with-two-nvidia-cards/13:06
darkxstthat seems like old news to me, though no date on the post13:09
GroklingIt seems like the offloading part does a similar thing, only via software.13:09
Groklingurl suggests april 201413:09
darkxstGrokling, offloading uses PRIME, that didnt exist in the nvidia drivers back then13:10
Groklingyeah, hence the hardware solution. Now we have software to do something essentially the same I think?13:10
darkxstGrokling, its not that simple13:12
Groklingdarkxst, I'm grasping at straws..  I currently have a dev workstation that I can't use. I can't run Chrome because it breaks my GPU unless I update kernel and mesa. Updating those breaks my graphics. Installing an entirely new distro (this one) gets me two screens that I could use.. but then I can do that on my laptop.13:14
GroklingVery tempting to buy some different video card(s) to solve it.13:15
darkxstGrokling, GTX75013:15
darkxstthey are about $100AUD13:15
darkxstthough if you need four DVI monitors you may also need adapters13:16
howudodathey everyone...on ubuntu 15.04, dell xps 15 qHD touchscreen laptop.  had the mising cursor problem on 3.14, org->gnome->settings-daemon->cursor wouldn't fix it.  decided to upgrade to 3.16.   I added the 3 repos (gnome3, gnome3-staging and ricotz/testing) and did a dist-upgrade.  on reboot I get the dmesg(es) and a cursor appears (I'm thinking it's an X cursor) and then nothing else.  I can switch back to consoles tty1-6 and back to13:17
howudodat 7 but I still see the same dmesg log and x cursor.  gnome-shell never appears.13:17
darkxsthowudodat, don't use ricotz/testing if you don't know what you are doing13:17
Grokling$180nzd.. Not sooo bad. Still NVIDIA, and I'd then have a fan.13:18
howudodatdarkxst...I tried first without ricotz/testing (using just gnome3-staging) and had the same result13:18
mgedminhint: you can use ppa-purge to remove it13:18
darkxsthowudodat, and I would need to see logs13:18
darkxstfile a bug and attach /var/log/gdm/13:18
Groklingdell xps 15?  I thought that was HP?13:18
darkxsthowudodat, also could be caused by wayland gdm13:22
darkxstyou disable that /etc/gdm/custom.conf13:22
darkxstyou can13:22
Groklingdarkxst, how do radeon's fare in the linux world? Radeon HD6450 does three outputs for $50nzd.13:25
GroklingWith a heatsink rather than a fan.13:25
darkxstGrokling, the older ones have pretty good OSS support, but not always13:26
darkxstand the AMD proprietry drivers are a gigantic mess13:26
GroklingSo you'd stick with the NVIDIA stuff despite the pain?13:27
howudodathere's a bit of info on the dell:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Laptops/Dell/XPS/15-953013:28
howudodaturged ricotz and disabled wayland in the greeter...now I no longer see X overlaying on the boot messages, but a just a black screen.  when I switch back to tty1, I see: A start job is running for Wair for Plymouth Boot Screen to Quit13:28
darkxstGrokling, no pain here13:28
Groklingdarkxst, That's okay, I'm having it for you.13:29
darkxstthere is one bug that breaks totem, and a few other apps that use cogl13:29
darkxstbut upstream are on it13:29
darkxstand that is only 3.1613:29
darkxstlike I said I have not tried multiple GPU's atleast not in the last 10 years13:30
darkxstactually not since I got matrox G40013:30
darkxstso probably closer to 15 years13:31
* darkxst sleep now13:34
* Grokling just realised it's 0135.. sleep a wise choice13:35
darkxstGrokling, in NZ?13:35
darkxstfigured, couldnt think of anyone else ahead of our time!13:37
GroklingIt's nice to have someone else awake in IRC land at this time.. while the US sleeps.13:37
darkxstGrokling, most of europe is awake!13:38
GroklingTrue, but I don't see any of them in here helping!13:39
darkxstand I'm not aware of any canonical'erz in US13:39
howudodatok, I might be in deep here...I cant get to a login prompt any more...cant ssh to my laptop either.  Just sits at A start job is running for Wait for Plymouth Boot Screen to Quit13:40
darkxsthowudodat, do you have kdm installed?13:40
Groklingone last boot, then I'm out.13:40
darkxstor some other dm, apart from gdm?13:41
howudodatno, it should only be gdm13:41
darkxstgdm should kill the plymouth session13:41
darkxstbut that doesnt happen apparently when another dm is installed13:42
ubot5Debian bug 766462 in gdm3 "with plymouth installed, and both GDM and KDM enabled, I don't get any gettys on my VCs" [Serious,Fixed]13:43
darkxstpotentially related13:45
darkxstI'm off to bed13:45
howudodatok, I disabled plymouth in grub and the last message I get is a nouveau error: MMIO write of 0x000002 FAULT at 0x4108ac [IBUS], then the X cursor13:51
darkxsthowudodat, what card?13:52
howudodatI believe it's onboard intel13:52
darkxsthowudodat, no, the it wouldnt be using nouveu13:52
darkxsthowudodat, maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/1412602?13:54
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1412602 in linux (Ubuntu Vivid) "No live DE in Vivid using nouveau w/GeForce 7025/nForce 630a" [Medium,Confirmed]13:54
* darkxst goes, really now13:54
howudodatok, me too, might jump back on later tonight13:54
darkxsthowudodat, its midnight here, I won't be back13:55
howudodat:) it's 7am, and sadly I'm out all day...so I can't get this fixed until later....sleep well...if you're back around in about 12 hours we'll talk again then13:56
darkxsthowudodat, try after 6pm aussie time13:58
octoquaddarkxst, apologies for delay in response. Using fglrx at the moment not OSS drivers. Additionally I do not have the wayland package installed. I will try with a fresh install and file a bug report if I get the same result.17:22
MatheusAlvesAnyone there?19:54
MatheusAlvesI need some help19:55
MatheusAlvesUbuntu GNOME is multil language?19:57
MatheusAlvesPlease, i can't install GNOME on ubuntu...20:01
octoquadHi MatheusAlves. Yes Ubuntu GNOME is multi language. Are you having a problem with language support or installing Ubuntu GNOME?20:04
MatheusAlvesNo, i just did know this to download ;D20:05
Groklingdarkxst, So, I gave up. Gnome just doesn't like it. I installed kubuntu, first boot, it brought up all four screens perfectly. Okay, they're not in the same order as they are physically on my desk, but I'm prepared to forgive that!23:40
JDAIIIquick question. I'm on UG14.04 and randomly, the screen on my main monitor will go black. The first time this happened, I rebooted, but now I just have to switch to tty1 and then back to tty7. Now this is not a horrible issue since I have a workaround, but I'd like to know why it happens randomly. Usually once a day23:41

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