[08:39] <Grokling> Curly one for you guys.. I've just been looking at 15.4, thought I'd install it and see how it went on my desktop. BUT, there's no mouse pointer (I can tell it's there, because there are a couple of mouseover responses) To make matters worse, the installer isn't keyboard friendly beyond the first screen. Any ideas what's up with the invisible pointer? Graphics issue perhaps? The installer doesn't seem to be running in full screen (not sure if it
[08:39] <Grokling>  should?)
[08:39] <Grokling> Not sure how I can even troubleshoot it at such an early stage?
[08:41] <mgedmin> ugh, sounds painful
[08:41] <mgedmin> what's the video hardware on this machine?
[08:41] <mgedmin> (the installer is not a full-screen app)
[08:42] <mgedmin> anyway, missing mouse cursor is most likely a driver bug
[08:42] <mgedmin> *video driver
[08:42] <Grokling> I have two nvidia GT210 cards - real basic cards.. solid state, and they're not supported properly by the 'current' nvidia drivers - I needed to use the legacy drivers in mint for them to work properly.
[08:44] <darkxst> missing cursor usually means gnome-setting-daemon, thinks the idle-monitor is missing
[08:44] <Grokling> I'm picking it's a driver bug/issue. But, how can I fix that if I can't install?
[08:44] <mgedmin> lack of keyboard-friendliness also seems like a bug :/
[08:46] <darkxst> Grokling, log into live session, launch dconf-editor, goto org->gnome->settings-daemon->cursor and disable it
[08:47] <Grokling> I only started down this rabbit hole because latest chrome causes gpu freezes, which is fixed in a more recent kernel, and patched in a later mesa lib. so I updated both of those, and that broke my graphics spectacularly. I'm picking that ubuntugnome will have the same issue (same kernel, same mesa sources..)
[08:47] <darkxst> you may also need to restart g-s-d with `gnome-settings-daemon -r`
[08:47] <darkxst> yes Chrome is crap
[08:48] <Grokling> okay.. so, live (after I managed to tab to it) started, and ALL of my screens work how they should (amazingly!)
[08:49] <darkxst> do you have a mouse pointer?
[08:49] <Grokling> Nope. Thanks to whoever set up the mouseover actions, I have a rough idea of where it is though..
[08:50] <Grokling> Aaaactually.. I launched terminal, fired up dconf-editor, and now I have a mouse pointer. bizzare.
[08:51] <Grokling> org->gnome->settings-daemon->[peripherals, plugins]  no cursor mentioned there.
[08:51] <Grokling> plugins->cursor
[08:51] <mgedmin> mouse pointer everywhere or just while it's over certain windows?
[08:51] <darkxst> plugins->cursor
[08:52] <Grokling> I can see the cursor everywhere at the moment.
[08:53] <darkxst> the cursor plugin was (its gone in 3.16) meant to only hide cursor on touchscreens, but if something goes wrong it can get confused
[08:54] <Grokling> Okay - well, since I have a mouse at the moment, I'm going to hit up the install and see how far I can get.
[08:54] <Grokling> You're right though, not having a keyboard friendly installer is a minor problem for edge cases like me.
[08:55] <mgedmin> it's a major problem for people with disabilities :(
[08:56] <Grokling> True that.
[09:26] <Grokling> Okay. Installed, and rebooted. Two of my screens have come 'on' (the #1 graphics card). But they're both entirely black. ctrl+alt+f2 gets me a tty which I can log into okay. Where to from here?
[09:27] <Grokling> tty seems to have proper resolution, and no black border which is a great start.
[09:44] <mgedmin> debugging nvidia issues is beyond my {area of expertise,patience}
[09:44]  * mgedmin is buying laptops with intel video specifically to avoid nvidia
[09:49] <Grokling> amen to that. Although, I did buy a Dell, and it has nvidia (seems to work just fine though)
[09:49] <Grokling> Seems like the solution is to boot with nomodeset, then install the proprietary driver. Fingers crossed that it works!
[10:16] <Grokling> It worked. Nearly. Now to make an xorg.conf that works..
[10:19] <darkxst> you shouldnt really need an xorg anymore (and you may in fact find ubuntu overwrites if your try to make one)
[10:19] <darkxst> ^xorg.conf
[10:26] <Grokling> You also shouldn't use nvidia graphics, or run four screens off one machine.. Because I need to use the proprietary driver, I have to use the proprietary tools to configure it. xorg.conf is the result. Just takes a little careful iteration, and I'll get there!
[10:31] <Grokling> At least, I think I do. Not sure on the status of xrandr vs xinerama, or the likelihood that gnome is using compiz(which xinerama can't handle)
[11:10] <mgedmin> gnome 3.x is using gnome-shell, which is not compiz
[11:11] <mgedmin> xrandr is good, xinerama is sort-of-obsolete, but xrandr emulates it AFAIU
[11:11] <mgedmin> I've heard that modern nvidia proprietary drivers support xrandr at last
[11:52] <Grokling> mgedmin, I'm not winning here..  If you know a mixture that'll work for me, I'm all ears. I have two nvidia GT210 1GB cards. I've had them running four screens up until recently. Can't manage to get ubuntu-gnome any further than two on the first GPU.
[11:52] <Grokling> I was using xinerama.
[11:54] <darkxst> Grokling, xinererama is gone
[11:55] <darkxst> atleast I think so, nvidia blobs support xrandr fully these days
[11:55] <darkxst> that said I've never tried 2 GPU's
[11:55] <Grokling> Okay.. bring me to the future. I have the 340.76 driver, and I 'think' based on some results that xrandr 1.4 should be supported.
[11:56] <darkxst> have 4 outputs on my 1 GPU
[11:57] <Grokling> displayport monitors?
[11:57] <darkxst> no, 2 DVI and 2 HDMI
[11:57] <berglh> are they all connected?
[11:57] <darkxst> its just a cheapo GTX750
[11:58] <darkxst> yes
[11:58] <Grokling> Nice! I could only find ones that would take displayport when I was looking. So went with two cards.
[11:58] <berglh> interesting
[11:58] <Grokling> So, xrandr.. how?
[11:58] <berglh> can't you daisy chain display port?
[11:58] <darkxst> Grokling, paste xrandr -q
[12:00] <darkxst> or paste the result of the command even
[12:00] <berglh> *tumbleweeds*
[12:01] <Grokling> will do - have to get it off that machine into the interwebs somehow.. It's coming..
[12:01] <mgedmin> sudo apt-get install pastebinit
[12:01] <mgedmin> xrandr -q | pastebinit
[12:01] <mgedmin> then copy the url here
[12:05] <Grokling> Mission! Everything is tangled up.  Anyway: http://pastebin.com/Cj8v92S2
[12:06] <darkxst> Grokling, xrandr only detects 1 card?
[12:06] <darkxst> so that is all gnome will see
[12:08] <mgedmin> btw what does "xrandr --version" say about the server RandR version?
[12:08] <Grokling> xrandr needs to look harder..  xrandr --list-providers sees one provider, with four outputs
[12:08] <Grokling> mgedmin, 1.4
[12:08] <mgedmin> that's good
[12:09] <mgedmin> I wonder if /var/log/Xorg.0.log contains anything useful
[12:10] <darkxst> Grokling, maybe you need to --set-offload or whatever the command is
[12:11] <Grokling> mgedmin, I can see the NVIDIA driver there, detects two GPUs. Apparently it can't use base mosaic on this chipset.
[12:11] <darkxst> thats how the hybrid setups work, maybe its similar for 2 nvidia gpus
[12:12] <Grokling> Which explains why that doesn't work..
[12:14] <Grokling> var/log/Xorg.0.log => http://paste.ubuntu.com/11112683
[12:15] <darkxst> [  4619.611] (EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0): Errors:
[12:15] <darkxst> [  4619.611] (EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0):     - Unsupported GPU
[12:15] <darkxst> [  4619.611] (EE) NVIDIA(GPU-0):     - Chipset not approved for SLI
[12:16] <mgedmin> "Please see Chapter 29 in the README" O.O
[12:16] <mgedmin> the README has *chapters* and there are *at least 29 of them*
[12:17] <Grokling> Do we need SLI for xrandr though?
[12:17] <mgedmin> what even is SLI?
[12:17] <darkxst> Grokling, no, but you will need to setup xrandr offloading I suspect
[12:18]  * mgedmin reads about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Link_Interface
[12:18] <darkxst> mgedmin, its combines gpu's not well supported on lnux though
[12:18] <mgedmin> two GPUs for one monitor, for better performance, AFAICU
[12:18] <darkxst> mgedmin, yes
[12:20] <mgedmin> Grokling, do I understand it correctly that you have an Xorg.conf, and that it has only one Device section?
[12:20] <darkxst> in Grokling's case he probably wants --setprovideroutputsource and/or --setprovideroffloadsink
[12:20] <Grokling> offloading:  "Version 1.4 of the X Resize, Rotate, and Reflect Extension (RandR 1.4 for short) adds a way for drivers to work together so that one graphics device can display images rendered by another"
[12:20] <Grokling> That doesn't sound like it..
[12:20]  * mgedmin googles up https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA#Multiple_monitors
[12:21] <darkxst> Grokling, of course it does
[12:21] <mgedmin> "While the documentation lists a 2x2 configuration of monitors, Nvidia has reduced that ability to just 3 monitors in Base Mosaic mode as of driver version 304" hahaha *weeps*
[12:21] <darkxst> xinerama and the hacks that came with are long gone afaik
[12:21] <Grokling> mgedmin, let me check that - I just flipped it to use xinerama (seeing as i know that's at least supported on these chips!) so xorg.conf just changed again.
[12:21] <darkxst> so you can either run two X server
[12:22] <Grokling> interestingly xinerama spins up all my monitors, just doesn't paint them with anything.
[12:22] <darkxst> or use offloading
[12:23] <Grokling> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/319.12/README/randr14.html
[12:23] <darkxst> Grokling, mutter relies on xrandr
[12:23] <darkxst> not xinerame
[12:24] <Grokling> Ok, so I'll forget about xinerama for now, and have a crack at this offloading business.
[12:40] <Grokling> okay, so, the example given there sets the nvidia device as the primary screen. I have two. Accordingly I'm a bit confused by the whole modesetting arrangement. Here's what I have so far: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11113001
[12:41] <Grokling> Should that nvidia2 device be using the modesetting driver?
[12:42] <darkxst> Grokling, you should only have one primary screen
[12:42] <Grokling> So, set the other to inactive yeah?
[12:42] <darkxst> well not primary
[12:44] <darkxst> you really can't have two primary monitors that will break everything
[12:45] <Grokling> I thought that's what the screen 0 and screen 1 were about?
[12:45] <darkxst> no
[12:46] <Grokling> Following the example in the docs, there's no busID for the second device, and no driver specified. Is there magic somewhere that 'guesses' that part?
[12:46] <darkxst> that would be 2 X servers
[12:46] <Grokling> Ah - makes sense. That's xinerama corrupting my thinking.
[12:46] <Grokling> 4x X servers + xinerama.
[12:47] <Grokling> X screens at least.
[12:48] <darkxst> X screens are synomous with servers
[12:48] <Grokling> This might be closer then? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11113080
[12:50] <darkxst> Grokling, you shouldnt need a xorg.conf to make this work
[12:50] <darkxst> that said I have never actually had hardware to try personally
[12:51] <Grokling> Somehow we need to setup the offloading though? The docs say xorg.conf is the place for that? Seeing as xrandr isn't seeing the second GPU.
[12:51] <Grokling> I suspect that if xrandr could see it, it'd probably nearly work out of the box.
[12:52] <darkxst> Grokling, you said xrandr --list-providers sees it?
[12:53] <Grokling> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11113164
[12:55] <darkxst> Grokling, what nvidia driver version?
[12:55] <Grokling> 340.76
[12:56] <darkxst> Grokling, I'm out of ideas, really
[12:59] <Grokling> rats. I thought you were going to solve this with me! The offloading stuff that I've tried didn't work. "can't find provider with name modesetting"
[13:00] <Grokling> darkxst, thanks for the help/time this far.
[13:01] <darkxst> Grokling, I am the head developer around here, but sometimes I can only guess
[13:02] <darkxst> I don't have an infinite supply of hardware
[13:02] <darkxst> in fact I have no supply of hardware
[13:03] <Grokling> Heh.. I might soon have a matching pair of GT210s looking for somewhere else to be if I can't make this work with contemporary software!
[13:04] <darkxst> not about to try that stuff in my development machine
[13:05] <mgedmin> what happens if you remove the xorg.conf altogether?
[13:05] <Grokling> Seems like xrandr needs sli AND base mosaic for a working setup.. neither of which is supported on this chipset.
[13:05] <Grokling> Removing the xorg.conf gets me two screens on GPU-0, and nothing else. The other two are disabled.
[13:06] <darkxst> sli is a nvidia thing, nothing to do with xrandr
[13:06] <Grokling> re sli: https://www.martineve.com/2014/04/15/enabling-a-triple-head-3-monitor-setup-on-linux-mint-16-petra-with-two-nvidia-cards/
[13:09] <darkxst> that seems like old news to me, though no date on the post
[13:09] <Grokling> It seems like the offloading part does a similar thing, only via software.
[13:09] <Grokling> url suggests april 2014
[13:10] <darkxst> Grokling, offloading uses PRIME, that didnt exist in the nvidia drivers back then
[13:10] <Grokling> yeah, hence the hardware solution. Now we have software to do something essentially the same I think?
[13:12] <darkxst> Grokling, its not that simple
[13:14] <Grokling> darkxst, I'm grasping at straws..  I currently have a dev workstation that I can't use. I can't run Chrome because it breaks my GPU unless I update kernel and mesa. Updating those breaks my graphics. Installing an entirely new distro (this one) gets me two screens that I could use.. but then I can do that on my laptop.
[13:15] <Grokling> Very tempting to buy some different video card(s) to solve it.
[13:15] <darkxst> Grokling, GTX750
[13:15] <darkxst> they are about $100AUD
[13:16] <darkxst> though if you need four DVI monitors you may also need adapters
[13:17] <howudodat> hey everyone...on ubuntu 15.04, dell xps 15 qHD touchscreen laptop.  had the mising cursor problem on 3.14, org->gnome->settings-daemon->cursor wouldn't fix it.  decided to upgrade to 3.16.   I added the 3 repos (gnome3, gnome3-staging and ricotz/testing) and did a dist-upgrade.  on reboot I get the dmesg(es) and a cursor appears (I'm thinking it's an X cursor) and then nothing else.  I can switch back to consoles tty1-6 and back to
[13:17] <howudodat>  7 but I still see the same dmesg log and x cursor.  gnome-shell never appears.
[13:17] <darkxst> howudodat, don't use ricotz/testing if you don't know what you are doing
[13:18] <Grokling> $180nzd.. Not sooo bad. Still NVIDIA, and I'd then have a fan.
[13:18] <howudodat> darkxst...I tried first without ricotz/testing (using just gnome3-staging) and had the same result
[13:18] <mgedmin> hint: you can use ppa-purge to remove it
[13:18] <darkxst> howudodat, and I would need to see logs
[13:18] <darkxst> file a bug and attach /var/log/gdm/
[13:18] <Grokling> dell xps 15?  I thought that was HP?
[13:22] <darkxst> howudodat, also could be caused by wayland gdm
[13:22] <darkxst> you disable that /etc/gdm/custom.conf
[13:22] <darkxst> you can
[13:25] <Grokling> darkxst, how do radeon's fare in the linux world? Radeon HD6450 does three outputs for $50nzd.
[13:25] <Grokling> With a heatsink rather than a fan.
[13:26] <darkxst> Grokling, the older ones have pretty good OSS support, but not always
[13:26] <darkxst> and the AMD proprietry drivers are a gigantic mess
[13:27] <Grokling> So you'd stick with the NVIDIA stuff despite the pain?
[13:28] <howudodat> here's a bit of info on the dell:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Laptops/Dell/XPS/15-9530
[13:28] <howudodat> urged ricotz and disabled wayland in the greeter...now I no longer see X overlaying on the boot messages, but a just a black screen.  when I switch back to tty1, I see: A start job is running for Wair for Plymouth Boot Screen to Quit
[13:28] <darkxst> Grokling, no pain here
[13:29] <Grokling> darkxst, That's okay, I'm having it for you.
[13:29] <darkxst> there is one bug that breaks totem, and a few other apps that use cogl
[13:29] <darkxst> but upstream are on it
[13:29] <darkxst> and that is only 3.16
[13:30] <darkxst> like I said I have not tried multiple GPU's atleast not in the last 10 years
[13:30] <darkxst> actually not since I got matrox G400
[13:31] <darkxst> so probably closer to 15 years
[13:34]  * darkxst sleep now
[13:35]  * Grokling just realised it's 0135.. sleep a wise choice
[13:35] <darkxst> Grokling, in NZ?
[13:36] <Grokling> yeah.
[13:37] <darkxst> figured, couldnt think of anyone else ahead of our time!
[13:37] <Grokling> It's nice to have someone else awake in IRC land at this time.. while the US sleeps.
[13:38] <darkxst> Grokling, most of europe is awake!
[13:39] <Grokling> True, but I don't see any of them in here helping!
[13:39] <darkxst> and I'm not aware of any canonical'erz in US
[13:40] <howudodat> ok, I might be in deep here...I cant get to a login prompt any more...cant ssh to my laptop either.  Just sits at A start job is running for Wait for Plymouth Boot Screen to Quit
[13:40] <darkxst> howudodat, do you have kdm installed?
[13:40] <Grokling> one last boot, then I'm out.
[13:41] <darkxst> or some other dm, apart from gdm?
[13:41] <howudodat> no, it should only be gdm
[13:41] <darkxst> gdm should kill the plymouth session
[13:42] <darkxst> but that doesnt happen apparently when another dm is installed
[13:43] <darkxst> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=766462
[13:45] <darkxst> potentially related
[13:45] <darkxst> but
[13:45] <darkxst> I'm off to bed
[13:51] <howudodat> ok, I disabled plymouth in grub and the last message I get is a nouveau error: MMIO write of 0x000002 FAULT at 0x4108ac [IBUS], then the X cursor
[13:52] <darkxst> howudodat, what card?
[13:52] <howudodat> I believe it's onboard intel
[13:52] <darkxst> howudodat, no, the it wouldnt be using nouveu
[13:54] <darkxst> howudodat, maybe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/1412602?
[13:54]  * darkxst goes, really now
[13:54] <howudodat> ok, me too, might jump back on later tonight
[13:55] <darkxst> howudodat, its midnight here, I won't be back
[13:56] <howudodat> :) it's 7am, and sadly I'm out all day...so I can't get this fixed until later....sleep well...if you're back around in about 12 hours we'll talk again then
[13:58] <darkxst> howudodat, try after 6pm aussie time
[17:22] <octoquad> darkxst, apologies for delay in response. Using fglrx at the moment not OSS drivers. Additionally I do not have the wayland package installed. I will try with a fresh install and file a bug report if I get the same result.
[19:54] <MatheusAlves> Anyone there?
[19:55] <MatheusAlves> I need some help
[19:57] <MatheusAlves> Ubuntu GNOME is multil language?
[20:01] <MatheusAlves> Please, i can't install GNOME on ubuntu...
[20:04] <octoquad> Hi MatheusAlves. Yes Ubuntu GNOME is multi language. Are you having a problem with language support or installing Ubuntu GNOME?
[20:05] <MatheusAlves> No, i just did know this to download ;D
[20:05] <MatheusAlves> Thankz
[20:05] <octoquad> np
[23:40] <Grokling> darkxst, So, I gave up. Gnome just doesn't like it. I installed kubuntu, first boot, it brought up all four screens perfectly. Okay, they're not in the same order as they are physically on my desk, but I'm prepared to forgive that!
[23:41] <JDAIII> quick question. I'm on UG14.04 and randomly, the screen on my main monitor will go black. The first time this happened, I rebooted, but now I just have to switch to tty1 and then back to tty7. Now this is not a horrible issue since I have a workaround, but I'd like to know why it happens randomly. Usually once a day