[00:42] <Drew_Neilson> Is Canonical planning to create an installer for Ubuntu Touch like what Cyanogen has created for CyanogenMod?
[00:56] <DonkeyHotei> Drew_Neilson: i doubt it, the focus is on devices with it preinstalled
[00:57] <Drew_Neilson> I hope they do.  It would make it easy for noobs like me :-)
[00:58] <DonkeyHotei> easier would be buying a device with it preinstalled
[01:12] <Drew_Neilson> DonkeyHotei too bad there aren't any, at least in the U.S.
[01:12] <DonkeyHotei> there will be very soon
[01:12] <Drew_Neilson> how soon do you think?
[01:13] <DonkeyHotei> i'm the wrong person to ask that
[01:13] <Drew_Neilson> who should I ask
[01:15] <DonkeyHotei> the negotiations with the mfrs and carriers are not public, but the meizu device will work in the US
[01:20] <nhaines> Drew_Neilson: At least one phone will launch in the US this year.
[01:21] <DonkeyHotei> and that's not counting the meizu
[01:21] <nhaines> It is counting the Meizu.
[01:21] <DonkeyHotei> oh.
[01:21] <nhaines> Which may or may not come to the US.
[01:21] <nhaines> But it sounded like it would to me.
[01:22] <nhaines> Anyway, Canonical aren't working on a phone installer for Ubuntu because they're not working on any phones that don't come preinstalled with Ubuntu.
[01:22] <DonkeyHotei> the android version of the meizu is currently orderable in the US from meizu's website
[01:22] <nhaines> Completely irrelevant.  It doesn't run Ubuntu.
[01:23] <DonkeyHotei> it speaks to where meizu sells
[01:23] <nhaines> They sell worldwide, like most other Chinese OEMs.
[01:23] <nhaines> But that doesn't mean they're going to launch an Ubuntu phone in the US.
[01:25] <DonkeyHotei> if they launch an ubuntu phone worldwide and it works in the US, they will have launched an ubuntu phone in the US
[01:25] <nhaines> You just said "if they launch an Ubuntu phone in the US, they will have launched an Ubuntu phone in the US."
[01:26] <nhaines> The bq Aquaris E4.5 Ubuntu Edition works just fine in the US too.
[01:26] <nhaines> But bq did not launch the phone in the US.
[01:26] <DonkeyHotei> on edge only
[01:26] <nhaines> I don't see how that's relevant.
[01:26] <DonkeyHotei> edge towers are being phased out
[01:27] <Drew_Neilson> does Canonical screen Ubuntu and Ubuntu Touch apps uploaded to its software store for malware, like how Google scans apps uploaded to Google Play for malware?
[01:27] <DonkeyHotei> google does not do that
[01:27] <nhaines> Drew_Neilson: no, because apps are sandboxed and cannot access any information that's not included with the app.
[01:27] <nhaines> DonkeyHotei: yes they do.
[01:28] <nhaines> It's not 100% effective, but they do have an automated approval process.
[01:28] <Drew_Neilson> naines but if Ubuntu has vulnerabilities, then apps can use those vulnerabilities to escape the sandbox
[01:28] <Drew_Neilson> that has happened with Android
[01:28] <DonkeyHotei> the ubuntu store also has an automated approval process
[01:30] <nhaines> Drew_Neilson: yes, and if the malware is obfusticated it can escape detection from an automated scan.
[01:30]  * Drew_Neilson goes to look up teh word "obfusticated"
[01:31] <DonkeyHotei> obfuscated
[01:32] <nhaines> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obfusticated
[01:38] <Drew_Neilson> could Canonical do what Google has done by installing something like bouncer on all Ubuntu desktops and phones and anytime an app does something that is perhaps malware-like, it could report that back to Canonical, who would then remove the app from the store, or re-examine it?
[01:39] <Drew_Neilson> That would help eliminate teh problem of obfusticated code
[01:39] <nhaines> No, but if it is discovered to be malware it will be removed from the store and I believe that Canonical can recall it from phones.
[01:40] <nhaines> I need to figure out this missing icons in the Apps scope thing.
[01:43] <Drew_Neilson> Seems to me all OSes should have a secure antivirus program installed with root-level permissions--especially if developed by the OS developer--cause no matter what, no OS is 100% impenetrable (to my knowledge)
[01:44] <DonkeyHotei> a lot of android devices now ship with an app called Lookout which obnoxiously scans everything downloaded from the google play store
[01:45] <Drew_Neilson> Lookout doesn't have root-level permissions
[01:45] <Drew_Neilson> to my knowledge, only Bouncer does
[01:45] <nhaines> Nothing is 100% impenetrable, and antivirus is far less than 100% reliable.
[01:46] <DonkeyHotei> i have not seen Bouncer, even on android 5.1
[01:46] <Drew_Neilson> DonkeyHotei Bouncer is system-level, part of the OS
[01:47] <Drew_Neilson> take everything that I say with a grain of salt, since I've never owned a smartphone
[01:47] <Drew_Neilson> this comes from what I've read
[01:47] <Drew_Neilson> I don't even know if Bouncer's name is still Bouncer
[01:50] <Drew_Neilson> nhaines since you mentioned obfusticated code, a root-level antivirus program could monitor running programs, and anytime a program does something that is illegal (in terms of software), attempts to escape the sandbox, etc. the antivirus could report back to Canonical what the app is trying to do, and then Canonical could re-review it and potentially remove it from the app store.
[01:53] <nhaines> It's not usually remarkable when a sandbox blocks access.
[01:53] <Drew_Neilson> nhaines what do you mean?
[01:55] <nhaines> If an application wants your location, but you deny it access, it's going to constantly be asking for your current location and the call will fail and the application will continue normally.
[01:55] <nhaines> That's not a cause for alarm--it's actually exactly how things were designed.
[01:58] <Drew_Neilson> what about apps that attempt to exploit vulnerabilities to escape the sandbox and cause harm to the system or access private data that would normally be off-limits?
[01:58] <nhaines> What about them?
[01:59] <nhaines> The system can't be harmed because a) applications don't run as a priviledged user and b) the system file system is read-only.
[01:59] <Drew_Neilson> Perhaps a root-level antivirus program could monitor such activity, report it back to Canonical, and force the rogue app to be re-evaluated.
[01:59] <nhaines> You haven't described a virus.
[01:59] <Drew_Neilson> Hasn't this actually happened on Android?
[02:00] <nhaines> I don't think it matters what's happened on Android.
[02:00] <nhaines> Applications literally can't access anything outside of their own file path.
[02:00] <nhaines> Anything else is mediated by system helper calls.
[02:01] <Drew_Neilson> Is Ubuntu more secure--more hardened--than Android?
[02:02] <nhaines> Yes, but it's also not comparable to Android.
[05:39] <fobabetty> how can I add an app to the ubuntu phone panel?
[05:41] <nhaines> If you mean the menu bar where the indicators are, you can't.
[05:41] <fobabetty> no... on the left
[05:42] <fobabetty> I know it will be simple... but I cannot find out how to do :-)
[05:42] <nhaines> Oh, the launcher.
[05:42] <fobabetty> yes... launcher
[05:42] <fobabetty> sorry
[05:42] <nhaines> Launch the app, then long-press the icon, and choose "Pin to launcher".
[05:43] <fobabetty> Perfect. Thank you nhaines
[05:44] <fobabetty> how would I do a complete image of my new bq ubuntu phone.. so that I could write it back if something went wrong?
[05:45] <nhaines> No worries.  :)
[05:45] <nhaines> A complete image is tricky.  Basically you gzip /home/phablet
[05:47] <fobabetty> can I ssh to the phone?
[05:47] <fobabetty> sorry for my newbie questions.. but I think if I ask my questions here... and somebody of you guys have the time... you can answer my questions about 10 times quicke than myself using google :-)
[05:48] <fobabetty> I am just a power user girl.. not a developer ;-)
[05:51] <nhaines> You should get used to Googling.  ;)  AskUbuntu.com is a great resource!
[05:51] <nhaines> If you enable developer mode, you can use phablet-shell to end up on the phone.
[05:51] <nhaines> of course, you can also just install Terminal from the Ubuntu App Store as well.  ;)
[05:52] <nhaines> (Don't be afraid to ask questions here either, but sometimes it's busy or deserted, too.)
[05:55] <fobabetty> ok, thank you nhaines. have a nice day
[05:55] <nhaines> fobabetty: thank you, and likewise!  :)
[06:03] <fobabetty> nhaines: I would have a very last question.. It would be great if I could make an own scope that shows browser bookmarks... mm.. what I want is to pin some links (e.g. google drive) to a scope.. is this possible?
[06:05] <nhaines> Ooh, interesting.  Browser bookmarks probably aren't possible.
[06:05] <nhaines> But links shouold be pretty simple.
[06:05] <fobabetty> really.. links would be better.. how could I do this
[06:05] <nhaines> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/
[06:06] <fobabetty> so you think I could make my own scope even Im not a programer/developer ?
[06:06] <nhaines> This would probably be a good start.  There's a scope creator for RSS feeds as well that might be even simpler.
[06:06] <fobabetty> ok.. thanks.. I will have a look there.. bye
[06:06] <fobabetty> ;-)
[06:06] <nhaines> In some respect you have to become a programmer.  But it's pretty straightforward and between that guide and the other tool you should be able to figure something out.  :)
[06:06] <nhaines> Good luck!  :)
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> sturmflut2: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Ubuntu-15-10-with-Unity-8-and-Linux-Kernel-4-0-Runs-on-a-Lenovo-Tablet-480994.shtml
[06:42] <nhaines> lotuspsychje: I'm just jealous of that mouse cursor.
[06:42] <lotuspsychje> :p
[06:46] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: comes handy on headshots :p
[07:11] <sturmflut2> lotuspsychje: Oh, I'm famous again ;) It would have been nice if they had asked me about the pictures though, they apparently just downloaded them from my blog, put them on their own server and made a gallery. With credits, at least.
[07:12] <lotuspsychje_> sturmflut2: seems nice :p
[07:12] <lotuspsychje_> contrats on your work
[07:14] <sturmflut2> lotuspsychje_: Well, it's just combining the right parts. Not much real work from my side. I'm thinking about building a modified Ubuntu 15.10 Installer ISO to ease the process, but I have no experience with that.
[07:14] <lotuspsychje_> ah, check remastersys package or somethign similar
[07:15] <lotuspsychje_> packages to modify your own ubuntu distro iso
[07:15] <sturmflut2> lotuspsychje_: Ah, that might be a nice starting point! Thanks.
[07:15] <lotuspsychje_> sturmflut2: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[07:16] <sturmflut2> lotuspsychje_: I don't need much, just replace the kernel and a correction to the GRUB installation script.
[07:16] <lotuspsychje_> sturmflut2: and this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeDistroHowto
[07:16] <dholbach> good morning
[07:16] <sturmflut2> dholbach: Good morning!
[07:16] <lotuspsychje_> morning
[07:17] <dholbach> hey sturmflut2
[07:17] <dholbach> sturmflut2, nice series of articles coming from you!
[07:18] <sturmflut2> dholbach: Thanks! I am working on many more, just not with the same frequency at the moment. The topics are getting more advanced and research takes longer.
[07:19] <dholbach> <3 <3 <3
[07:19] <sturmflut2> And I do have those "private life" and "work" thingies
[07:19] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:19] <dholbach> dpm, davidcalle: we should have a look and see if we can borrow anything form sturmflut2's blog entries for developer.u.c :-)
[07:19] <lotuspsychje> amateur folling around is the best
[07:20] <davidcalle> dholbach, +1!
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> alot of magic happens in this channel lately
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> you guys all rock
[07:24] <sturmflut2> dholbach, dpm, davidcalle: If you can make any use of my musings, please just do. Also if you come up with corrections and/or ideas on how to improve, just tell me. You can even open a GitHub issue for the blog or clone the whole thing and send me a pull request.
[07:24] <dpm> thanks so much sturmflut2!
[07:25] <davidcalle> dpm, dholbach, any name ideas for that weekly blog post about what's going on in Ubuntu dev/appdev?
[07:27] <dadexix86> good morning! update is here, can someone link to me the changelog please? :)
[07:32] <PhilippeP> http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ota/ota-3.5.changelog
[07:32] <PhilippeP> here you go
[07:37] <jcbjoe> PhilippeP: is that for ubuntu-touch ?
[07:37] <PhilippeP> jcbjoe: yep
[07:37] <jcbjoe> oo
[07:38] <jcbjoe> PhilippeP: are you using ubuntu-touch as a daily driver ?
[07:40] <PhilippeP> jcbjoe: yes it's currently my only phone ...
[07:40] <jcbjoe> PhilippeP: nexus 4 ?
[07:40] <PhilippeP> jcbjoe: nope BQ
[07:40] <jcbjoe> aw
[07:41] <jcbjoe> PhilippeP: are you in the US ?
[07:42] <PhilippeP> jcbjoe: no Europe(Belgium)
[07:42] <jcbjoe> to bad ubuntu-touch dosen't have nearby and stuff
[07:46] <jcbjoe> for anyone what is the diffrence between devel and stable ?
[07:56] <dadexix86> PhilippeP, thank you very much! :)
[07:57] <PhilippeP> dadexix86: you're welcome
[08:36] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Alison Hargreaves Day! 😃
[08:46] <sturmflut2> Yay, OTA-3.5 is downloading
[08:48] <robin-hero> sturmflut2: I updated my phone yesterday at 9 PM. :)
[08:49] <ogra_> congrats, you won the lottery :)
[08:53] <robin-hero> :D
[09:03] <PhilippeP> lscpu
[09:03] <PhilippeP> wrong window :)
[09:07] <diduser> how can I set a custom ringtone in new bq ubuntu phone?
[09:12] <sturmflut2> diduser: Hm, let's see
[09:13] <sturmflut2> diduser: Looks like the UI doesn't support custom ringtones at the moment, but you could change it via gsettings.
[09:14] <diduser> I read about I could remount the system writable and copy the files to /usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/ringtones/     But I am afraid to loose the option to get "official" updates...
[09:14] <diduser> I read that the gsettings-option would not longer work
[09:14] <diduser> is that right?
[09:17] <sturmflut2> diduser: Hmmmmmm. The "com.ubuntu.touch.sound incoming-call-sound" schema/key still exists, but I don't know if it is still used.
[09:18] <diduser> so how could I tried it in your opinion?
[09:18] <robin-hero> I think I found a bug which is affected r21 and r22 too. Two days ago I got an MMS and I recieved it everyday the same time again and again.
[09:21] <sturmflut2> diduser: I just tried to set the incoming-call-sound via gsettings, the key has been written but the UI still displays the old ringtone. Even after a restart.
[09:22] <sturmflut2> diduser: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-system-settings/+bug/1268097
[09:23] <diduser> sturmflut2: so.. is it right that I could lose the possibility to get update if I remount the system rw?
[09:24] <sturmflut2> diduser: Yeah, mounting r/w is best to be avoided
[09:25] <diduser> ok... so.. at this time.. no chance to set a custom ringtone, right?
[09:26] <sturmflut2> diduser: Doesn't look like it, no.
[09:26] <diduser> :-(
[09:26] <sturmflut2> diduser: You can probably only add yourself as affected to the bug, the more people weigh in the liklier it becomes that it will be fixed.
[09:26] <diduser> ok, thank you
[09:28] <ogra_> mounting rw and just putting an additional file in a dir and thenj mounting ro again wont do any harm
[09:31] <sturmflut2> It is surprising how much feedback I get on this BayTrail tablet stuff. Looks like people are really waiting for a cheap, decent Ubuntu tablet.
[09:33] <brunch875> hah, I'd love to have one. The whole issue with tablets right now it's they're slow and they're not as capable as PCs
[09:35] <diduser> sturmflut2: I tried to login to my bq phone.. I installed the package "phablet-tools". but "adb devices" does not show my bq.. developer mode is enabled. what could be the reason? do I have to install further packages?
[09:36] <sturmflut2> diduser: Which Ubuntu version does your host run?
[09:36] <diduser> xubuntu 14.04
[09:36] <sturmflut2> ogra_: 14.04 doesn't come with the necessary udev rules for ADB on the bq, right? Or something like that
[09:37] <simosx> diduser, if it's the first time you use adb, you may need to reboot the phone.
[09:37] <diduser> I could try it with 15.04 I have installed in virtualbox..
[09:37] <diduser> ok, trying a reboot
[09:38] <sturmflut2> brunch875: Those Windows 8.1 tablets are actually quite nice hardware-wise. Quad-Core, at least 32 GB flash, 2 GB RAM, UEFI and ACPI, "standard" Intel graphics chip, HDMI port, USB 3.0 On-the-Go, for about 180 euros or even less. The only problem is the software. Intel usually does an excellent job, but this time they screwed up big time. Not even the latest 4.0 kernels come with the necessary drivers.
[09:38] <sturmflut2> brunch875: Not even audio works out of the box :/
[09:39] <simosx> diduser, there is a version of 'adb' that requires an instruction that says that the USB vendor ID is a device that is good for 'adb'. My 'adb' that works, is of version '1.0.31'. (run 'adb' without parameters to find the version).
[09:39] <brunch875> damn!
[09:40] <ogra_> sturmflut_, the phablet-tools PPA has them
[09:42] <simosx> I have a bq phone and I am on 'ubuntu-touch/vivid-proposed'. Is that still bleeding edge or shall I move to something else? The bq phones with original firmware got an update today which I did not get.
[09:42] <diduser> ok, in 15.04 it works.. but I got message "no local key, please run the ssh-keygen command first"... which command exactly?
[09:43] <simosx> diduser, it's about SSH keypairs. You need to create a keypair for SSH using ssh-keygen, then run the command again.
[09:43] <diduser> simosx: so I run the command "ssh-keygen" on host machine??
[09:44] <simosx> diduser, yes. The 'ssh keypair' is an important thing. See for example at https://help.github.com/articles/generating-ssh-keys/ for some good parameters to use.
[09:44] <diduser> ok, and what password do I choose? the one of my phone?
[09:45] <brunch875> Hoooray I finally have some time to take a look at the ubuntu development tools!
[09:45] <simosx> diduser, it asks you for a 'passphrase' to protect your keypair. It's up to you, if you feel like, you might be able to leave it empty. However, that keypair can be used for things like github, so it's good to put a passphrase and remember it.
[09:46] <diduser> ok.. but now when I do "phablet-shell" I get "error: closed"
[09:46] <ogra_> simosx, stop usin channels with release names ... they are dead ends :)
[09:46] <ogra_> use the respective alias
[09:48] <simosx> diduser, it happens sometimes. When running 'phablet-shell', it does behind quite a few things. Try to run it a couple of times?
[09:49] <diduser> mm.. does phablet-shell need su-rights? or can I run it as normal user?
[09:49] <ogra_> diduser, you need to unlock the phone screen
[09:49] <ogra_> estabishing a new connecion is only allowed while the phone is unlocked
[09:50] <diduser> ogra: OMG.. that was the error (in 15.05)... thank you !
[09:50] <ogra_> :)
[09:50] <simosx> ogra_, I may have put devel-proposed. How do I verify? (I am on the phone with a shell/phablet-shell).
[09:50] <ogra_> system-image-cli -i
[09:52] <simosx> nice. I am on 'ubuntu-touch/devel-proposed', last update on '2015-05-08 18:38:55'.
[09:52] <ogra_> thats fine then
[09:53] <simosx> ok
[09:55] <diduser> thank you all for help
[09:55] <ogra_> that is why we are here :)
[09:56] <diduser> *thumbsup* :-)
[10:01] <brunch875> Agh! The calendar startled me with an event. I had no idea notifications behaved like alarms
[10:02] <brunch875> That's actually a pretty neat functionality.
[10:03] <davmor2> brunch875: how else would you know about meetings you are meant to be at else?
[10:04] <brunch875> back when I used an android phone I remember checking the calendar widget constantly :|
[10:11] <brunch875> There are six different project templates for apps and I have no idea which one is better
[10:11] <brunch875> or at least more modern
[10:15] <simosx> I tried once to compile the bq kernel at https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E4.5/tree/aquaris-E4.5-ubuntu-rtm and created a boot.img. I then installed it on the bq. It did not boot (boot loop).
[10:15] <simosx> I recovered by installing the boot.img that I extracted according to sturmflut_ instructions (https://sturmflut.github.io/) so it's fine now.
[10:16] <simosx> Anyone tried to re-compile the kernel?
[10:20] <mcphail> brunch875: the templates confused me as well. Use qmlproject for simple qml apps and cmake project if you're using a C++ backend. When the new targets come on line I think everything is going to change to qmake
[10:20] <brunch875> thanksman!
[10:22] <nicomen> are there some tutorials in how to making web apps and html5 apps without using the UI?
[10:22] <ogra_> headless html5 apps ?
[10:23] <nicomen> I get so many different errors trying to run an emulator or running things on the phone, and still not been able to. It would be easier for me to do things manually and find out what is actually failing
[10:23] <nicomen> any app, I guess how to generate an installable deb/click or something
[10:37] <ogra_> nicomen, you need three files http://paste.ubuntu.com/11111516/ ...
[10:38] <ogra_> developer.ubuntu.com has details about them .-..
[10:38] <ogra_> (well, you need 4 files, since an icon is required)
[10:39] <nicomen> ah that's it?
[10:39] <nicomen> thanks ;)
[10:40] <ogra_> well, the Main.qml file that is called there would be a minimal qml to wrap a webview and you would open your index.html from inside it ... or you would replace the exec line in the desktop file with a webapp-container call
[10:40] <ogra_> but yeah, from the click side it is only these three files plus an icon
[10:45] <tvoss> random rant: the lack of good-looking *AND* working home-banking software
[10:50] <ogra_> tvoss, just write it :P
[10:50] <tvoss> ogra_, I'm tempted
[10:50] <ogra_> you might have to open a bank first though :)
[10:51] <tvoss> ogra_, well ... not necessarily
[10:52] <ogra_> well, otherwise controlling the backend side might be painful ... which could harm the "working" part :)
[11:15] <sturmflut_> kgunn: Sorry for the disturbance, but I don't know if you've already seen https://plus.google.com/102486542947898431342/posts/Qd2jh7Q7YNE and the linked article?
[11:16] <kgunn> sturmflut_: hey! good to hear from you so no disturbance, thanks for sharing
[11:17] <sturmflut_> kgunn: I think I've finally found a way to put a reliable 15.04 installation on the device, a how-to is in the works
[11:17] <ogra_> sturmflut_, well, pretty curtious what works and what doesnt given that many userspace bits still hard depend on the android layer atm
[11:17] <sturmflut_> ogra_: I suppose we'll find out ;)
[11:18] <ogra_> (sound, sensors, gps ....)
[11:18] <sturmflut_> ogra_: I can already say something positive about the GPS: There is none.
[11:18] <ogra_> haha
[11:18] <kgunn> sturmflut_: did you use our silo with demo code or is that all just trunk code ?
[11:19] <ogra_> h, and video playback indeed ...
[11:20] <Masternoob> hey guys, i just want initiate a talk about the calendar app
[11:21] <sturmflut_> kgunn: The screenshots from yesterday are just using the packages that came with 15.10 (Wily) by default. I'm reinstalling the device with 15.04 and the vivid PPA today. Yesterday I was just happy that the tablet hadn't crashed for more than 20 minutes, this time I'll do it proper.
[11:21] <Masternoob> currently it is in terrible shape and has nearly no dev activity...imho a celndar app is core functionality and i know 3 people that can't use the phone because of this....
[11:22] <ogra_> Masternoob, did they file bugs ?
[11:22] <sturmflut_> ogra_: Video acceleration worked quite well last time, this is an Intel GPU running the Open Source drivers.
[11:22] <ogra_> (also #ubuntu-app-devel is probably the better place for this)
[11:22] <ogra_> sturmflut_, sure, but the gstreamer setup defaults to hybris ... as well as pulse
[11:23] <ogra_> so sound and video are a matter of luck :)
[11:24] <sturmflut_> ogra_: Well, I have good news about pulseaudio as well: there is currently no kernel driver for the internal audio chip
[11:24] <ogra_> ... until we actually have a proper backend implementation for non-adnroid devices
[11:24] <Masternoob> ogra_ yes they did file bugs... currently there are  30 New bugs and 87 Open bugs in the app...many of them should be really high priority since they make the app unusable on a daily basis
[11:26] <Masternoob> Also there are plans to include the app by default (Bug 1418986), but this is a bad idea since there are so many crucial bugs
[11:27] <ogra_> this is why it isnt included by default yet
[11:27] <sturmflut_> Masternoob: I would also say that #ubuntu-app-devel is the better place for this discussion
[11:27] <ogra_> yes, as i said above
[11:29] <Masternoob> ok thank you i will take the discussion to the other channel
[11:36] <Tenleftfingers> Bug 1454657 (sorry, I cant paste URL from  BQ device yet) relates to the calendar's Month overview. Id appreciate confirmation/me too if anyone can reproduce.
[11:37] <ogra_> confirmed
[11:38] <Tenleftfingers> Thank you ogra_
[11:57] <mariogrip> is that a new ota update i see? :O v22
[12:12] <jgdx> mpt, ping
[12:17] <sturmflut_> mariogrip: Yeah, OTA-3.5
[12:23] <seb128> jgdx, you better ping with context if you want a reply from mpt ;-)
[12:33] <jgdx> seb128, :)
[12:34] <sturmflut> mzanetti: Ping
[12:34] <mzanetti> hey sturmflut
[12:34] <sturmflut> mzanetti: Okay, I think I've got a stable 15.04 environment on the tablet now. I forgot my notes at home, could you please repeat one more time which PPAs I need on top of vivid for Unity8 and Mir?
[12:34] <jgdx> mpt, the apn spec, is something happening to it?
[12:34]  * sturmflut has probably asked this five times now
[12:36] <sturmflut> mzanetti: I promise I'll document it in a public place this time
[12:37] <mzanetti> ci-train-ppa-service/stable-phone-overlay
[12:37] <mzanetti> sturmflut, ^
[12:39] <Masternoob> Is it a known bug that Windows doesn't recognize the BQ Phone as USB drive?
[12:42] <ogra_> the phone doesnt expose as USB drive anywhere
[12:42] <ogra_> only as MTP device ... and windows should detect it as that
[12:43] <davmor2> ogra_: Windows does it is part of the regression plan
[12:43] <davmor2> ogra_: as mtp that is
[12:44] <ogra_> right
[12:44] <ogra_> but you guys dont test all windows versions either i guess :)
[12:44] <davmor2> ogra_: no just the version we have a licence for so for me that is window 7
[12:45] <davmor2> ogra_: I think others have windows 8
[12:45] <ogra_> i.e. i'm not sure if XP even has MTP support (if anyone is insane enough to still run XP on an internet connected machine)
[12:45] <davmor2> ogra_: just xp would of been enough there I think :)
[12:46] <sturmflut> Hmmmm, downloading at 500 kbyte/s per second using an USB-Ethernet-adapter. I wonder who's to blame.
[12:47] <ogra_> sturmflut, anything else on the same HUB ?
[12:47] <sturmflut> s/kbyte/s per second/kbyte per second/
[12:48] <LostSoul> hi comunity, how can I take screen shots on aquarius ?
[12:48] <ogra_> LostSoul, press both volume buttons at the same time
[12:48] <davmor2> LostSoul: vol+ and vol- at the same time
[12:48] <ogra_> you'll find the screenshot in the gallery app then
[12:48] <LostSoul> thanks
[12:49] <davmor2> Masternoob: what version of windows are you on?
[12:49] <sturmflut> ogra_: No, it's all USB 3.0 and the Ethernet connection is 100 MBit/s all the way. Probably some cheap chipset.
[12:49] <LostSoul> it works perfectly. Thank you
[12:50] <LostSoul> there is a problem.. Geolocalization feiled. Can I do something ?
[12:50] <ogra_> sturmflut, yeah,. or buggy USB 3.0 drivers :P
[12:51] <davmor2> sturmflut: is the usb→eth actually usb3?
[12:51] <ogra_> LostSoul, did you already recieve the latest OTA (out since yesterday) .-.. that fixes a bunch of location issues
[12:51] <LostSoul> no,
[12:51] <ogra_> well, then wait for it and check again after you received it :)
[12:52] <LostSoul> wait? Can not do anything now?
[12:52] <sturmflut> davmor2: Well, the chinese sticker on it claims so. Maybe "3.0" means "like a sloth" in chinese numerology or so.
[12:52] <Masternoob> davmor2 Windows7
[12:52] <ogra_> OTAs come in phased updates for the first 24h ... in that timeframe you can only wait
[12:53] <ogra_> (and hope you win the lottery :) )
[12:53] <Masternoob> I shows as some kind of media player but i guess it should show as usb drive like android does
[12:53] <ogra_> it should show as media device but be accessible in your file manager
[12:54] <Masternoob> it is not accessible as file manager
[12:54] <Masternoob> *from
[12:54] <davmor2> ogra_: Masternoob: checking now
[12:54] <sturmflut> I wonder what happened with that ultra-cheap chinese 128 GB sd card which that one guy on the mailinglist bought.
[12:56] <davmor2> Masternoob, ogra_: shows up fine here,  please remember that the phones screen needs to be on to show up
[12:56] <davmor2> Masternoob: and unlocked
[12:56] <Masternoob> It shows up for me to but i cannot open it in explorer
[13:01]  * popey tests this
[13:02] <popey> works here
[13:03] <popey> on my retail bq device
[13:03] <popey> hmm, vivid krillin doesn't work
[13:03] <popey> i see nothing
[13:04] <davmor2> popey: works here :(
[13:04]  * popey updates phone
[13:04] <popey> mx4 running vivid (I assume?) fails too
[13:05] <robin-hero> popey: Do you have an mx4? :)
[13:05] <davmor2> popey: 1 second
[13:06] <popey> NO CARRIER
[13:06] <ogra_> use a cart ...
[13:11] <davmor2> popey: connects
[13:17] <davmor2> Masternoob: sorry it took so long but windows suck for screeenshots http://davmor2.co.uk/~davmor2/bq-phone-in-win7.png
[13:21] <Masternoob> am i seeing this right that it should show two "drives" one for interal and one for sd?
[13:22] <ogra_> if you have a properly formatted SD in the device it should show up, yes
[13:23] <davmor2> Masternoob: yeap
[13:23] <ogra_> definitely does on the various ubuntu desktops here
[13:23] <Masternoob> ok i have no sd card in my phone and i only see the "Aquaris E4" symbol but no drives under it
[13:23]  * ogra_ hasnt used windows in ~20 years ... 
[13:24] <davmor2> Masternoob: there is no driver under it you just click on it and it shows you the home/phablet/folders
[13:24]  * Masternoob is forced to use it at work
[13:24] <ogra_> and thats an unmodified phone ... like it comes out of the box ?
[13:24] <davmor2> no driver should be no drive
[13:24] <Masternoob> davmor but on your screenshot i see two "drive" simbols
[13:24] <ogra_> (with updates applied indeed)
[13:25] <ogra_> or did you tinker with it in any way
[13:25] <Masternoob> no my phone is completely stock (with the latest rtm update)
[13:25] <popey> odd, sometimes they appear, sometimes not
[13:26] <Masternoob> i will try it on a different mashine when i get home in a few hours...maybe this windows installation has some kind of problem
[13:27] <ogra_> popey, well, i had reworked the whole underlaing mtp layer ... but that didnt make it in and eventually we killed the silo
[13:27] <ogra_> *underlying
[13:27] <ogra_> (based on udev rules .... not on upstart jobs ... a lot less racy but sadly there were issues with mako)
[13:27] <davmor2> Masternoob: right sorry, they are just virtual folders not drives as such :)  You can try unplugging it and pluggin it back in but make sure the screen on the phone is on an unlocked, mtp is only up when the phone is in that state otherwise it just shows the phone is connected
[13:28] <popey> i think we need a bug for this
[13:28] <popey> it's really unreliable
[13:28] <davmor2> popey: balme ogra_ he'll say it's not him but don't listen to that ;)
[13:28] <Masternoob> ok i will try it in a few hours from now.... are there plans to change this behaviour? I don't think a normal user will understand or know this
[13:28] <ogra_> popey, perhaps re-open bug 1425523
[13:29] <ogra_> Masternoob, which behavior ?
[13:29] <ogra_> that you dont see it is a bug, yes, that bit needs fixing
[13:29] <ogra_> that you need to unlock the screen is security design
[13:29] <Masternoob> that the phone must be unlocked to acces it via usa
[13:29] <Masternoob> *usb
[13:30] <ogra_> there were plans to add key authentication ... but the developer teams got shuffled recently and this is not a small task
[13:30] <Masternoob> I think the phone should prompt for this when connting via usb...how should the user know to do this?
[13:30] <ogra_> so not sure if that is anywhere high on anyones TODO now
[13:31] <davmor2> Masternoob: it is actually a security measure so someone can't take your phone plug it into their machine and steal your data
[13:32] <Masternoob> davmor2: yeah i get that, but there is no indication why it doesn't work, most users will give up there and can never access their data
[13:33] <davmor2> Masternoob: how would you indicate that on a locked phone?
[13:33] <K1773R> some will use their brain, the others wont
[13:33] <mcphail> Is it possible to offer a folder with a text file which says "The screen must be unlocked to access the files on the device"?
[13:34] <Masternoob> I don't know the plattform limitations here but wouldn't it possible to turn the screen on with some kind of fullscreen notification?
[13:34] <mcphail> Or change the text on the "circle" on the phone lockscreen?
[13:35] <Masternoob> I think this should be really visible (possibly even Fullscreen with an exclamation mark icon or something)
[13:35] <popey> It could well have a notification
[13:35] <popey> "Unlock device to access over USB"
[13:38] <Masternoob> As i said, i think without a reakky visible notification, most users will fail to connect the device
[13:38] <Masternoob> *really
[13:38] <davmor2> popey: but you are assuming that people are looking at their screen.  If it is plugged in in the morning on arrival to work and you don't try and access it till an hour later how do you make it obvious then?
[13:39] <ogra_> Masternoob, file a wishlist bug, that sounds like a pretty valuable feature (such a notification)
[13:39] <popey> ya
[13:39] <popey> +1
[13:39] <Masternoob> i can only speak to me but i would at least unlock the screen to see if it offers some advice....android does something like this, you have to press a button before it connects a a "drive"
[13:39] <popey> given the screen turns on when you plug usb in, putting a notification there seems sane
[13:39] <ogra_> right
[13:39] <popey> and ocne people learn, they know
[13:39] <ogra_> thats what i meant above with "key authentication"
[13:40] <ogra_> future versions were supposed to pop up a key auth dialog ... once you confirmed that the key is put on your PC and you can always connect
[13:40] <ogra_> (for adb and mtp specifically)
[13:41] <Masternoob> ogra_ is there an existing bug/which for this or is it only in some blueprint?
[13:46] <Tenleftfingers> Podbird is crashing immediately after startup. I don't think OTA3.5 is to blame because I think I saw rhis earpier in the week too. If I uninstapp and reinstall, do I loose my subscriptions?
[13:48] <mcphail> Tenleftfingers: you don't lose your subscriptions. (well, I didn't)
[13:49] <shadeslayer> ogra_: ping :)
[13:49] <ogra_> shadeslayer, yo
[13:49] <shadeslayer> ogra_: so I was trying to do some modifications to the rootfs from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/vivid/daily-preinstalled/current/ and apparently apt-get is not happy about things
[13:50] <shadeslayer> ogra_: invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/bluetooth-touch not found.
[13:50] <shadeslayer> for eg
[13:50] <shadeslayer> are those files manually placed?
[13:50] <ogra_> you need to set up your chroot properly :)
[13:50] <Tenleftfingers> thanks mcphail :)
[13:50] <ogra_> mount dev and proc ... put the necessary fake files in place etc
[13:51] <shadeslayer> ogra_: sure, that's one part of the problem, but it complains about /etc/init.d/bluetooth-touch , One would presume that comes from the pacakge
[13:51] <mcphail> Tenleftfingers: perhaps one of your subscriptions is causing the crash. Seems to work perfectly here
[13:51] <ogra_> shadeslayer, and you did put the proer fake file for invoke-rc.d in place ?
[13:51] <shadeslayer> ogra_: doesn't that file come from the package? aka why do I need a fake file?
[13:52] <ogra_> (divert it and link it to /bin/true or some such ... whatever live-build usually does for them)
[13:52] <ogra_> (when it sets up the buiold chroots)
[13:52] <ogra_> has nothing to do with any package
[13:53] <shadeslayer> ogra_: right, just thought that the file would be provided by some package or something
[13:54] <ogra_> no
[13:54] <shadeslayer> why does the postrm refer to it then?
[13:54] <ogra_> its part of the chroot setup
[13:54] <ogra_> like making dbus calls no-op's etc etc
[13:54] <sturmflut> shadeslayer: invoke-rc.d tries to change actual system settings, start daemons etc. But you are in a chroot, and you can't and don't want the chroot to change your host system. So you have to "fake" the invoke-rc.d command, everybody inside your chroot needs to think that it succeeded while it actually didn't do anything.
[13:54] <Tenleftfingers> mcphail: Good point. Although I would argue that if malformed XML or the mp3 is causing issues it still the apps fault. Until I can get it to stay loaded I camt unsubscripted. Lets see how it goes!
[13:55] <Masternoob> so...should i create a whish for the usb prompt?
[13:55] <ogra_> Masternoob, yes, against the mtp package
[13:55] <popey> yes
[13:55] <Masternoob> ok
[13:55] <mcphail> Tenleftfingers: will be interesting to know if the path to the mp3 has a "#" (hash symbol) in it
[13:55] <sturmflut> shadeslayer: The postrm assumes that you are running apt-get on an actual, fully functional system. But in this case you aren't.
[13:56] <ogra_> exactly
[13:57] <Tenleftfingers> mcphail, Hmm, Ill look it up from my desktop.. The onesI added most recently. I may get disconnected as I'm "multitasking" on a BQ device but Ill be back.
[13:59] <shadeslayer> sturmflut: so ... the post/prerm checks for this script which is present on a regular system but not on touch since live build removes them
[13:59] <shadeslayer> did I get that right?
[13:59] <Masternoob> I filed a new bug 1454713
[14:40] <ogra_> shadeslayer, no, you didnt ... the build env doesnt touch any pre/postrm scripts ... it replaces the tools tehse scripts call
[14:40] <ogra_> in the case you are looking at its invoke-rc.d
[14:40] <shadeslayer> aha
[14:40] <shadeslayer> I see
[14:41] <ogra_> but there are others iirc
[14:41] <shadeslayer> right, now I understand :)
[14:44] <ogra_> shadeslayer, https://jpetazzo.github.io/2013/10/06/policy-rc-d-do-not-start-services-automatically/ this is a rather good write up
[14:52] <sturmflut> Yay, 3D acceleration and 1080p video playback on BayTrail! Out of the box! But no sound :/
[17:01] <george_e> This is probably a dumb question, but does anybody know which framework I should target for an app running on the Bq Aquaris?
[17:03] <dobey> george_e: 14.10 right now
[17:04] <george_e> dobey: excellent, thanks!
[17:09] <jcbjoe> does gps and location services work in ubuntu-touch ?
[17:10] <dobey> generally, yes
[17:45] <studio_> hi
[17:47] <studio_> one question about the gallery app in UT. Was it fixed to not store videos from an external storage?
[18:03] <studio_> nobody here?
[18:07] <mariogrip> mhall119: I saw the some users from Oneplus one forum tried to get the opo as a official device :D
[18:07] <mariogrip> that*
[18:25] <mhall119> mariogrip: the OPO has some very loyal users
[18:25] <mhall119> :)
[18:55] <mariogrip> mhall119: :)
[19:21] <kenvandine> Elleo, i proposed my url-dispatcher branch for content-hub, i haven't included my checklist results yet, waiting for new debs to test :)
[19:21] <kenvandine> Elleo, i'll do that in the morning
[20:03] <mariogrip> what's the best way to find debug output of ofonod?
[20:14] <mariogrip> ogra_, rsalveti: can you help me out here? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11118708/ it looks like rild starts, but ofono cannot connect to it....
[20:15] <rsalveti> hm, connection refused would probably be related with permission
[20:15] <rsalveti> awe: ^
[20:16] <awe> mariogrip, you need to ensure that the user process attempting to open the rild socket has the right permissions
[20:16] <awe> one sec...
[20:18] <mariogrip> wait, rebooted the device with a clean build, now i'm getting this http://paste.ubuntu.com/11118749/
[20:19] <mariogrip> rsalveti: awe ^
[20:19] <awe> mariogrip, so you're working on port, right?
[20:20] <awe> did you get past the permissions problems?
[20:20] <awe> so ofono can now connect?
[20:20] <mariogrip> yes
[20:20] <mariogrip> [0,UNSOL]< UNSOL_RIL_CONNECTED
[20:21] <awe> what device?
[20:21] <mariogrip> "ofonod[969]: We are polling CLCC and received an error"
[20:21] <awe> ( if you can share )
[20:21] <mariogrip> oneplus one
[20:21] <awe> you can safely ignore the "We are polling error..."
[20:21] <awe> it's thrown early in the bringup
[20:21] <awe> the bigger problem is that you can't parse the SIM status reply
[20:22] <awe> all bets *really* are off if you can't do that
[20:22] <awe> mariogrip, what's the modem?
[20:22] <mariogrip> qcom's
[20:23] <mariogrip> MSM8974 chip
[20:23] <awe> do you have access to the cyanogenmod source for the device?  Particularly the file RIL.java?
[20:24] <mariogrip> I think so, it ships with cm
[20:25] <taiebot> As anyone reported stuff like that http://uppix.com/f-screenshot2015045553b3120018ee22.png ??
[20:25] <mariogrip> https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_opt_telephony
[20:26] <mariogrip> https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_opt_telephony/blob/cm-11.0/src/java/com/android/internal/telephony/RIL.java
[20:26] <awe> mariogrip, so basically... manufacturers don't always follow the messages definitions as defined by ril.h
[20:26] <awe> ex: http://androidxref.com/4.4.2_r1/xref/hardware/ril/include/telephony/ril.h
[20:27] <awe> so what you need to do, is compare the parsing logic in RIL.java, in your particular branch, and figure out the difference
[20:27] <awe> and then ideally, you'd quirk the message parsing code in rildmodem
[20:27] <awe> we just did something similar for a qcom-based dual-SIM phone
[20:28] <awe> checkout the following pull-request to give you an idea of how it was quirked
[20:28] <awe> https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/pull/174
[20:29] <awe> note, the title of the pull-request is a bit generic unfortunately, but it'll give you an idea of how rildmodem's quirking works
[20:29] <mariogrip> okay, thanks. i will give it a try
[20:30] <awe> you can also turn on OFONO_RIL_TRACE and OFONO_RIL_HEX_TRACE in the ofono.override upstart job
[20:30] <awe> in this case, you'll see every message in readable form up to the parse error
[20:31] <awe> and the hex trace, well, does what it says.  ;)-
[20:45] <nhaines> Oh hey. I'm running ubuntu-rtm on my phone and after the last few updates someofthe icons have disappeared from the Launcher and the Apps scope.
[20:47] <nhaines> Are there any logs that might be useful for that?
[21:10] <dobey> banana net splits
[21:10] <mariogrip> awe, what should i write to enable OFONO_RIL_TRACE and OFONO_RIL_HEX_TRACE?
[21:12] <mariogrip> in .override
[21:12] <awe> mariogrip, you just need to ensure the variables are defined in the ofono's environment; just add them to ofono.override
[21:12] <awe> they don't need to be set to any particular value
[21:12] <mariogrip> so like env OFONO_RIL_TRACE
[21:13] <awe> mtk.c and ril.c just call getenv("OFONO_RIL_TRACE")
[21:13] <awe> and same for HEX
[21:14] <awe> you can also run ofono from the command line per: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ofono/+bug/1427788/comments/2
[21:18] <mariogrip> awe: ah, thanks
[21:20] <intheair86> want to compile for note 4, help.
[21:21] <awe> mariogrip, yw
[23:37] <Elleo> kenvandine: okay, sure thing :)