/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/18/#snappy.txt

dholbachgood morning06:25
Chipacamo'in08:15
Chipacaare we there yet?08:15
D_Centhi - can someone please tell me what happens to the app data in /var/lib/apps/<package name>/<version> if i update the package with snappy to a newer version? will the directory be renamed from e.g. 0.1 to 0.2 or will all app data get lost?09:08
JamesTaitGood morning all; happy Monday, and happy No Dirty Dishes Day! 😃09:39
vmayoral|pcGood morning everyone09:40
vmayoral|pcany chance someone can review snap 2662?09:40
ChipacaD_Cent: hi09:51
ChipacaD_Cent: the services in the snap are stopped, the data is copied to the new version, the new version is made current, and its services started09:52
ChipacaJamesTait: http://i.imgur.com/E1trXyD.gif10:05
ChipacaJamesTait: and good morning :)10:05
JamesTaitChipaca, that's mesmerising.10:06
JamesTaitChipaca, and good morning, too. ☺10:06
ChipacaJamesTait: i too could watch people work for hours10:06
JamesTaitChipaca, I see now that I've been washing the dishes all wrong.10:07
* ogra_ would like to see the other end of the machine ... and the guy who juggles them til they are dry10:09
Chipacaogra_: here you go: http://www.awardsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cloud.jpg10:13
ogra_lol10:14
Chipaca“the UI for Ubuntu Core is provided via web apps written for webdm”10:48
Chipacathat's interesting10:48
Chipacanot connected to any reality i'm aware of, but interesting nonetheless10:48
ogra_well, if snappy config is hooked into webdm thats not completely untrue10:49
Chipacadarn, and i just sent an email saying it was10:50
Chipacauntrue, that is10:50
ogra_well, it isnt like he imagines ... so thats fine10:51
Chipacafeel free to expand on my rather curt email :)10:51
* ogra_ glares at http://127.0.0.1:4200/snap/8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64.chipaca/ in his webdm 11:23
ogra_creative naming :)11:23
Chipacayeah, let's call it that11:23
Chipacaogra_: hopefully the description makes it all clear11:23
ogra_hmm, seems my webdm instance doesnt show any descriptions at all ... now that you mention it ...11:24
ogra_the details page just has the icon11:25
Chipacaogra_: ah, i guess it's the title, not the description11:26
Chipacaogra_: but: https://uappexplorer.com/app/8nzc1x4iim2xj1g2ul64.chipaca11:26
Chipacaogra_: the description is also enlightening11:26
ogra_heh11:28
D_CentChipaca: thanks for your answer previously :)11:28
ChipacaD_Cent: that's what we do. ogra_ with his good looks, me with my on-point answers.11:29
* Chipaca goes find lunch11:30
loollunch? are you in Europe?11:33
Chipacalool: that depends on who you ask11:34
Chipacalool: i'm in the uk11:34
looloh ok11:35
Chipacalool: have been for >4 years now11:35
loolChipaca: for some reason I associate you with a later timezone  :-)11:36
Chipacalool: for my first 3+ years in canonical, i was :)11:37
rickspencer3does anyone know how I can use a wifi dongle with snappy? i.e. connected to a usb port on a board?11:58
asacrickspencer3: there is a hacky way documented here: http://www.marinus.nu/2015/02/enabling-wifi-on-snappy-ubuntu-core.html12:05
asacwe dont have a neat net management framework yet12:05
loolactually wpasupplicant should be in the rootfs now12:08
asacit is12:08
loolso you just need to bottom part12:08
asacyeah so you dont need to install anything :)12:08
loolwe need to snap network-manager and/or connman etc.12:09
rickspencer3lool, how hard would it be for someone to add a configuration page to webdm for wpasupplicant?12:20
rickspencer3seems like it could go into the store12:20
rickspencer3the user plugs their board into the local wired network12:20
rickspencer3navigates to ubuntu@webdm.local:nnnn12:21
rickspencer3sets up wifi12:21
rickspencer3oops12:21
beunorickspencer3, it probably couldn't easily go into the store, as it would require special access (to change the wifi config)12:21
loolit's not the target user experience12:21
rickspencer3forgot the step of granting permissions12:21
loolbut that would work for now12:21
rickspencer3beuno, could it not go into the store, but the user has to grant permissions to the usb?12:21
beunoso I think it would be rolled into webdm, that already has special access12:21
loolthis seems to be a fine ubuntu-core config12:21
rickspencer3lool, agreed, but I was thinking shorter term12:22
looland then we'd miss a generic way to change configs in webdm12:22
beunorickspencer3, that's an interesting question. I'm not sure where the boundaries are there12:22
loolas an ubuntu-core config, it would be suitable from command-line as well12:22
rickspencer3on the phone, we fulfilled many use cases by adding apps to the store while in parallel working on the core functionality12:22
* beuno nods12:22
beunowe could likely just allow an exception for that app until we do12:23
loolBTW edison and other boards just connect to the nearest open wifi on boot12:31
loolarguably insane, but convenient12:31
=== alex-abreu is now known as alex-abreu|off
rickspencer3lool, that is insane :)12:34
rickspencer3lol12:34
rickspencer3lool, I think it would be great if you could do all of these:12:34
rickspencer31. drop a configuration file somewhere ... gadget snap?12:34
rickspencer32. use the snappy cli to define the ap and password12:35
rickspencer33. use a configuration gui via webdm (or standalone in the short term)12:35
asacrickspencer3: you can make a snap that has a config handler that takes a nice yaml with ap and password and then goes off, creates the wpasupplicant.conf, starts it and uses dhclient12:35
asacwedm will later surface those config yamls12:36
loolwell this could be in ubuntu-core for now12:36
asacfirst raw, later with generic input form by yaml scheme, even later through making webdm UI extensible12:36
alecuwhat about iot devices that have only wifi? You need them to start in access point mode if they can't connect to a known network. (like the chromecast does)12:38
asaclool: it could, but i kind off feel hesistant to drop a super quick hack into core12:38
asacwe dont know what we want to do on network management in core, so starting with a framework/app is a good idea for such quick things imo12:38
asacalecu: yes, thats a pretty standard first boot/setup practice we would love to see :)12:40
loolalecu: it's been on our TODO for ages; just never getting a change to implement this12:41
rickspencer3we had good luck in the phone making certain functions apps first12:41
rickspencer3and them bringing them into the core of the system as they were ready12:41
rickspencer3for example, the app updater was an app for a while while we were perfecting system settings12:41
rickspencer3then we moved that code into system settings when both were ready12:41
beowulfasac: hi, what do you mean when you say make the webdm UI extensible?12:42
Chipacabeowulf: webdm exposing config of installed apps12:42
Chipacaafaict :)12:42
asacright12:43
asacjust vague ideas12:43
beowulfChipaca: aye, i understand that part, and i understand (i think) the next part which is making yaml into form controls (right?), i'm just not sure what the extensible part was about?12:43
asacthat it woudl be cool if something could extend the webdm ui with its own config forms12:44
Chipacabeowulf: i read that as management handwaving12:44
beowulffwiw, that's kind of in reverse order of difficulty :)12:44
asacbut how that could be done is not really understood... we know how forms with schema would work for sure12:44
Chipacabeowulf: i.e. [ engineering magic happens here ]12:44
beowulfChipaca: i have a branch with a code editor embedded in the settings tab, so for a very basic first step if you wanted to send me yaml i could send it back edited...12:46
beowulf*waves hands*12:46
* Chipaca stuffs yaml in a box and sends it off to beowulf12:46
beowulfhehe12:46
alecuChipaca: what is the app config format or database that webdm will be touching, and how will apps find out about changes in those configs? dconf or something like that?12:47
ogra_alecu, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/config-command/12:48
asacalecu: snappy config12:48
Chipacaalecu: ebdic-encoded hdf files12:48
alecuChipaca: lol12:49
alecuogra_: asac: thanks!12:49
Chipacaboo :)12:49
sergiusensgood morning12:49
Chipacasergiusens: good morning!12:49
Chipacasergiusens: long time no see :)12:49
sergiusensI vanished to deal with a full week of bureaucracy12:50
sergiusensChipaca: it's been a while ;-)12:50
Chipacasergiusens: wat? paperwork on your holidays?!?12:50
Chipacasergiusens: that's probably against geneva, or something12:50
* Chipaca does not like paperwork12:51
sergiusensChipaca: yeah, well, it had to be done at some point12:51
* sergiusens dislikes paperwork too12:51
rsalvetimorning13:28
rsalvetisergiusens: spent the week paying taxes?13:28
sergiusensrsalveti: yeah, delightful13:29
rsalvetihaha, yeah, had to do that a few weeks ago13:29
=== erkules_ is now known as erkules
=== vrruiz is now known as rvr
ogra_hmm, trying to re-build one of my old snaps fails :/13:54
ogra_http://paste.ubuntu.com/11206759/13:55
ogra_ - snappy-systemd_hook_unknown_key_snap-inspector-term.snappy-systemd13:55
ogra_Unknown field 'ports'13:55
loologra_: I think the ports moved around https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/packaging-format-apps/14:00
loolbut old location ought to work I guess14:01
ogra_lool, well, my package.yaml looks pretty much the same14:01
ogra_http://paste.ubuntu.com/11206839/14:01
ogra_i dont have any internal port defined though14:02
* ogra_ doesnt see any difference beyond this vs the example package.yaml there 14:05
sergiusenslool: ogra_ ports in that page is outdated, I logged a bug weeks ago14:15
sergiusenslool: ogra_ oh, ports in there is fine now :-)14:15
ogra_err, wut ?14:22
ogra_is it outdated or is it fine ? :)14:22
ogra_jdstrand, any idea why i would get "Unknown field 'ports'" with http://paste.ubuntu.com/11207212/ ?14:36
jdstrandogra_: the tools need to be updated for ports14:38
ogra_jdstrand, yay ...14:38
jdstrandogra_: feel free to submit it and ping me14:38
* ogra_ wasted the last hour on searching the issue in his own stuff :)14:38
jdstrandogra_: :(14:39
ogra_no, i'm fine ... i could have pinged you earlier :)14:39
jdstrandogra_: so long as it follows docs/meta.md, you should be fine14:40
ogra_where is that ? in the reviewers tools ?14:40
jdstrandogra_: in lp:snappy14:44
ogra_k14:44
sergiusensChipaca: can I have regrets?15:00
Chipacasergiusens: NO RUGRATS15:00
sergiusensChipaca: I have a future of that coming soon.. rugrats :-P15:00
Chipacasergiusens: :D15:01
Chipacasergiusens: regrets for what?15:01
Chipacasergiusens: were these regrets wrt the branches? logger? working for snappy? :-p15:04
sergiusensChipaca: logger, let's stay on the standup if you wnt for 3 minutes15:05
Chipacasergiusens: sure15:06
=== vrruiz_ is now known as rvr
alecusergiusens: hi! with kyrofa we started building an experimental "snappy scope", based on webdm, as you suggested15:16
sergiusensalecu: and... :-)15:17
alecusergiusens: there are a few questions we'd like to ask you15:17
sergiusensalecu: shoot15:17
alecusergiusens: hmm... would you have some time for a hangout?15:17
sergiusensalecu: sure, 14hr ART?15:18
alecusergiusens: sounds good, I'll set up a calendar event.15:18
alecuthanks!15:18
Chipacajdstrand: is there a "apparmor linter"?15:20
sergiusensthere is15:20
jdstrandChipaca: you mean to see if the resulting profile is ok? there are two things that can pe used: apparmor_parser -p /path/to/profile and appamror_parser -QTK /path/to/profile15:28
jdstrandChipaca: the first is just a preprocessor and won't do things like verify apparmor variables are correct, etc. the 2nd is a full compile and the equivalent of apparmor_parser -r /path/to/profile except without loading into the kernel15:29
jdstrandboth can be run as non-root15:29
Chipacajdstrand: i ask because i'd like to be able to do something when apparmor fails, to better inform the developer of what exactly failed15:32
jdstrandhowever, before one gets too excited, the way we are using templates and caps means that we can't naively run the parser on the files in the snap, because a transformation happens on what is in the snap to what is on disk in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles15:32
Chipacajdstrand: right now we're not being too helpful, making the thing more opaque than it needs15:32
jdstrandChipaca: if apparmor fails, you can run apparmor_parser -QTK /path/to/each/profile/from/the/snap and report back15:33
Chipacajdstrand: excellent15:33
* Chipaca adds a card15:33
jdstrandbecause if apparmor is failing, the files should have underwent said transformation and be in /var/lib/apparmor/profiles15:33
Chipacajdstrand: https://trello.com/c/pK0vSzNZ/380-improve-information-provided-when-apparmor-fails15:34
jdstrandif they aren't, then you happen to know that click-apparmor failed to do the transform (which should only happen when using security-override). however, I wouldn't worry to much about that since click-apparmor will be going away15:34
jdstrandcool15:35
Chipacahah! i love it15:49
Chipacawe have ErrInvalidPackageYaml15:49
Chipaca... we don't use it :)15:49
svijhm… how do I find out which beaglebone black revision I have?16:09
Chipacawaaaiiit16:15
Chipacahttps://code.launchpad.net/snappy/+activereviews16:15
Chipacagit branches started showing up there16:15
sergiusensChipaca: let's move to git16:38
Chipacasergiusens: i believe we have a couple of blockers still?16:39
Chipacaotherwise, +0 from me :)16:39
sergiusensChipaca: just auto merge and the recipe, the recipe we can run on our end in a new tarmac implementation so we have one dput per commit16:41
sergiusensChipaca: and for the merge we can use launchpadlib to poll, until we have webhooks, and git merge16:43
Chipacasergiusens: my +0 stands. With it I mean "don't let me stop you". And by *that* I mean I'm not going to help you do it :)16:44
ogra_sergiusens, rsalveti, webdm is completely unusable on the released kvm image (works fine after snappy update webdm), do we want to keep it like that ?16:56
ogra_or do we plan to make point releases16:57
ogra_sergiusens, any idea why webdm on a kvm instance shows me all the arm kernel snaps ? i see beagle, overo, panda etc (merked as "not installable" but imho we should just hide uninstallable stuff)16:59
ogra_*marked16:59
ogra_(or is that a beuno question)17:00
beunothe store does what its told17:00
sergiusensogra_: we decided to do that with beuno17:00
sergiusensbeowulf:17:00
beunoso if its showing armhf, you are telling it you are armhf (or not telling it your arch at all)17:01
ogra_i'm not telling anything, i just started a kvm instance with the released image :)17:01
ogra_(and up to date webdm)17:02
beowulfogra_: somewhere along the way *cough* sergiusens *cough* i was told to show but not allow to install oem packages17:03
beowulfif that's wrong it can be changed easily17:03
alecusergiusens: hangout?17:03
sergiusensalecu: in abit17:03
sergiusensalecu: running late in prev meet17:03
ogra_beowulf, well, not sure who can make such a decision ... seems useless to show stuff to the user that he cant install17:04
alecusergiusens: no prob17:04
sergiusensbeowulf: ogra_ oh, right sabfdl said we should see them ;-)17:04
ogra_do you knwo why ?17:04
beowulfogra_: i agree that the current ui is a bit awkward in this repect17:04
ogra_well, if it is a sabdflified thing ...17:05
sergiusensogra_: we need another point release/pre built image17:06
ogra_yeah17:15
rickspencer3lool, I installed the new raspberry pi 2 image, but ssh ubuntu@webdm.local is not responding?17:26
rickspencer3does this imply that I screwed up makng the sd card?17:26
ogra_did you try the IP instead ?17:27
rickspencer3ogra_, I did not17:27
rickspencer3webdm.local worked on the last image and on my beaglebone over the weekend17:27
rickspencer3ogra_, does it matter that I did not format the sd card first or anything?17:29
rickspencer3I  assumed dd would just blast over everything17:29
ogra_no, since you write to it with dd partitioning doesnt matter17:29
rickspencer3I'll try again after lunch17:30
ogra_but if you run multiple devices with avahi service an the same name (webdm.local) on the same network, i'm not sure what happens17:30
rickspencer3make sure my bbb still works ;)17:30
rickspencer3ogra_, I only run one at a time17:30
ogra_k17:30
ogra_well,  then it should theoretically work :)17:30
* rickspencer3 looks forward to his bbb case coming today17:31
ogra_cases ... so overrated17:31
ogra_:)17:31
rickspencer3bbb worked just fine :(17:32
rickspencer3I will try reflashing the new pi2 image later17:32
sergiusensnothal_: help18:45
=== vrruiz is now known as rvr
loolrickspencer3: I think I dont have webdm installed in the image19:00
loolit was broken back then, but now that it's fixed I should totally include it19:00
rickspencer3lool, ok, so I have to just find the ip and install it?19:07
beunorickspencer3, yes19:13
beunomake sure the date is correct19:14
beunothen just sudo snappy install webdm19:14
rickspencer3beuno, will nmap find it on my lan?19:15
sergiusensrickspencer3: is avahi failing for you?19:15
rickspencer3sergiusens, it looks like webdm is not installed on the pi2 image default19:16
rickspencer3and I don't know how to find the pi2 on my network19:16
rickspencer3and I lost the admin/password for my router :/19:16
beunorickspencer3, sure it will, otherwise just peak at your rou...  ah  :)19:16
sergiusensrickspencer3: oh, bummer; nmap should find por 22 on the host and mostly nothing else19:17
sergiusensrickspencer3: nmap can also enumerate OS (forgot the switch for that), but maybe the arch is part of that enumeration and it should be easy to find with that19:17
beunorickspencer3, otherwise, .ssh/known_hosts likely rememebers the last IP it accessed19:18
beunoand that likely won't have changed19:18
rickspencer3beuno, oh, I have to blow that away all the time because of switching between the bbb and the pi219:19
rickspencer3they don't play nicely together :)19:19
beunoah19:20
beunoso there's an interesting to think about19:20
beunomore than one snappy on the network!19:20
rickspencer3\o/ found it19:22
rickspencer3beuno, indeed :)19:23
rickspencer3right now, it's good for Internet of Thing19:23
noise][Cooperative Multitasking19:23
noise][it's the floppy-swapping of the new millenium19:24
rickspencer3sergiusens, that sounds smart, I just tried ssh ubuntu@ipaddresses starting at the highest and working my way down until I found it19:25
loolrickspencer3: the trick I sometimes use (outside of checking DHCP logs) is to ping broadcast then look at the arp table19:28
loolarp -an19:28
loolping -b 192.168.0.25519:28
rickspencer3well, I just installed webdm, so this should work now :)19:28
rickspencer3oops19:29
rickspencer3this should work now, right/19:29
rickspencer3ssh ubuntu@webdm.local19:29
sergiusensyes it should19:30
rickspencer3rats19:31
rickspencer3is there a difference betwee webdm and webDM ?19:32
rickspencer3do I need to start webdm?19:32
rickspencer3ug19:33
rickspencer3I ran snappy update and it looks like it is updating webdm, even though I just installed webdm :(19:33
ogra_rickspencer3, there is a network scanner app in the phone store ;)19:34
beunothat is... hard to pull off19:34
beunoas in, the store only knows about one version of an app19:34
ogra_(to find your RPi2 IP)19:34
beunoso you couldn't really install an older version even if you wanted19:34
beunounless sergiusens uploaded a new one as you were typing!19:34
rickspencer3ogra_, nice idea :)19:34
rickspencer3beuno, no, it updated to the same version19:35
beunoew19:35
rickspencer3I was on 0.6.1, it updated me to 0.6.119:35
rickspencer3I don't know why it would update me, though19:35
* rickspencer3 tries a restart19:35
=== soee_ is now known as soee
sergiusensbeuno: rickspencer3 no I didn't update and it shouldn't update... :-/19:40
rickspencer3it also doesn't seem to be working19:41
rickspencer3maybe webdm is busted on the pi2 image?19:41
rickspencer3yeah, every time I run sudo snappy update, it reinstalled webdm, which then does  not seem to work19:49
rickspencer3the pi2 image is a bit busted, I guess :)19:49
sergiusensrickspencer3: where did you get your pi2 image from?19:52
sergiusensrickspencer3: maybe give me the output of journalctl -u webdm_snappyd_0.6.1.service19:52
sergiusensrickspencer3: and also, snappy info, snappy list and snappy list --updates19:52
sergiusensrickspencer3: try this, snappy remove webdm & snappy install webdm (sudo)19:52
sergiusensrickspencer3: I think I know what this is and it is quite unfortunate19:53
rickspencer3sergiusens, anything I can do to fix it?19:54
rickspencer3I have a bbb so I am not dead in the water19:54
rickspencer3just wanted to try out the pi219:54
rickspencer3also, I don't have a case for my bbb yet :)19:54
rickspencer3should come today19:54
sergiusensrickspencer3: snappy remove webdm snappy install webdm may do the trick19:54
rickspencer3oh19:57
rickspencer3sergiusens, can I get you any debug info or anything?19:58
sergiusensrickspencer3: I'm not sure this went through as I was swapping networks so I'll copy paste just in case19:59
rickspencer3k19:59
sergiusens16:49 < sergiusens> rickspencer3: where did you get your pi2 image from?19:59
sergiusens16:50 < sergiusens> rickspencer3: maybe give me the output of journalctl -u webdm_snappyd_0.6.1.service19:59
sergiusens16:50 < sergiusens> rickspencer3: and also, snappy info, snappy list and snappy list --updates19:59
sergiusensand also please pastebin the result of find /apps19:59
sergiusenssnappy install pastebinit.mvo ;-)19:59
rickspencer3sergiusens, I got the pi2 image from the where ubuntu.com/snappy/start said to go20:00
sergiusensrickspencer3: I'll get the image and try after I get back from my excersise routine then20:22
rickspencer3kk20:23
rickspencer3sorry,  I got distracted with something else20:23
sergiusensrickspencer3: no worries, so did I20:24
sergiusens:-)20:24
rickspencer3hehe20:24
rickspencer3\o/ my bbb case came in the mail20:54
Chipacarickspencer3: welcome to the prestigious club of the non-naked bbbs!21:29
Chipacarickspencer3: your membership invoice is in the mail21:29
Chipacamterry: https://bitbucket.org/fzzbt/go-gedit-plugin/ is the "official" gedit plugin (in the sense that it's linked from https://code.google.com/p/go-wiki/wiki/IDEsAndTextEditorPlugins )21:37
mterryChipaca, ah interesting21:41
Chipacasergiusens: i lied about committing something for you to look at wrt refactor tonight, i fear21:55

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