[00:24] <nhaines> jcbjoe: long press in a text field for selection handles, select all, copy, and paste controls.  That said, the vivid update makes all that actually usable.
[00:39] <mzanetti> Elleo, thanks. I forgot to push that indeed
[00:42] <cwayne> mariogrip, any luck with ofono on opo?
[00:45] <mariogrip> cwayne: I got some progress, I know where the error appears.
[00:46] <mariogrip> It trying to turn on the radio using the rilmodem driver but it fails
[00:46] <cwayne> yay progress :D
[00:46] <mariogrip> :D
[00:48] <mariogrip> I just need to wait until tomorrow so I can ask awe if he has any ideas why this error appears. So hopefully I get some more progress tomorrow :D
[01:55]  * ahoneybun highfives mariogrip
[06:25] <dholbach> good morning
[06:45] <sturmflut2> dholbach: Morning!
[06:56] <dholbach> hi sturmflut2
[06:56] <PhilippeP> 'morning
[08:03] <yacc> Any recommendation for an USB based audio card that will work perfectly with 14.04?
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/Meizu-Will-Sell-Ubuntu-MX4-Across-Europe-Soon-Says-Canonical-481404.shtml
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> morning
[09:18] <mpt> seb128, could you check whether I’m on the right track in bug 1350275 please?
[09:20] <seb128> mpt, hey, looking
[09:20] <seb128> mpt, I'm unsure we are a list of "languages" somewhere
[09:20] <seb128> are->have
[09:27] <seb128> mpt, you can "grep ^language /usr/share/i18n/locale/en_*" for example, the issue is that afaik we don't have a way to tell which locales exist because they have a specific language variant or for some other reasons (like different numbers formatting or first day of the week)
[09:28] <seb128> mpt, e.g en_GB and en_NZ use language "English", not sure how we could determine that GB is to list but not the NZ one
[09:28] <mpt> seb128, what language does en_CA use?
[09:28] <seb128> mpt, "English"
[09:28] <seb128> the en_* all have language "English" it seems
[09:28] <mpt> seb128, that can’t be right, they have different translations
[09:29] <mpt> Different spellings
[09:29] <seb128> right, but it's still called "English"
[09:29] <seb128> then the system tries to load the locale name file if it exists
[09:29] <seb128> then it fallbacks
[09:29] <seb128> you could create an en_NZ translation file and it would be used
[09:30] <seb128> it just happen that nobody did that (yet) for valid or not reasons
[09:30] <mpt> seb128, ok, when I say “language” I mean the thing that is different between en and en_GB. What is that thing in engineer-speak? :-)
[09:30] <seb128> well, we try to load the <locale_name>.mo catalog
[09:30] <mpt> (or locale-speak, I guess)
[09:30] <seb128> well, it's a bit trickier
[09:31] <seb128> that's done my program
[09:31] <seb128> you could have a en_NZ nautilus translation
[09:31] <seb128> but no en_NZ translation for anything else
[09:31] <seb128> my program-> by program
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, hey, you might know things better than me here, maybe you can help
[09:33] <seb128> pitti, is there something that tell us if a locale is meant to have its own language/language_variant?
[09:34] <mpt> seb128, pitti, so what if the spec said “the list of UI languages should consist only of those languages for which the system ships any translations”. That would raise the importance of bug 1455917. But assuming we let people set their locale elsewhere, would anything else bad happen?
[09:34] <seb128> pitti, like en_GB is an english variant with specific words/strings, but en_HK is probably not
[09:35] <seb128> mpt, that wouldn't solve your issue I think
[09:35] <seb128> $ ls /usr/share/locale-langpack/en_NZ/LC_MESSAGES/
[09:35] <seb128> pidgin.mo
[09:37] <seb128> mpt, you would still have en_AU en_NZ etc listed
[09:37] <pitti> seb128: hm, we could check /usr/share/locale-langpack/en_*, but that's highly ubuntu specific
[09:37] <pitti> why useless?
[09:37] <mpt> seb128, not on the phone I wouldn’t — /usr/share/locale-langpack/ does not include en_NZ there
[09:38] <seb128> pitti, there is nothing in the locale definition that tells you if the variant exists because it has a language variant or just different formating for e.g numbers or first day of week?
[09:38] <pitti> IIRC there was even a bug to add @shaw, but I could mis-remember
[09:38] <pitti> seb128: correct; as you could in principle add arbitrary translations for any locale
[09:38] <pitti> we just usually don't for all languages except en, es, and zh
[09:38] <pitti> and pt
[09:38] <seb128> mpt, k, until the day translations add a string to one of the template, as they did for pidgin
[09:39] <seb128> translators*
[09:39] <seb128> mpt, then the language would pop up in the settings with a langpack update
[09:39] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy No Dirty Dishes Day! 😃
[09:39] <mpt> seb128, so there is some code somewhere that says “omg this locale has one PO file translated, we must ship it!!!”? :-)
[09:41] <mpt> If so, then a methodical fix for 1455917 would solve that by setting a minimum for how much needs to be translated before the translation is shipped
[09:41] <seb128> mpt, no, we just ship any translation made afaik
[09:42] <seb128> mpt, but if some people decide to go made en_NZ specific translations, it's probably because they think there are difference/idioms in NZ?
[09:42] <seb128> made->make
[09:45] <mpt> seb128, well, there are, but at the same time, each extra item in the list makes the list harder to scan for everyone. I wouldn’t expect “English (New Zealand)” to show up in the list merely because there’s a single en_NZ translation of “This disk is corrupt” to “This disk is munted”.
[09:47] <seb128> mpt, right, I'm not sure what would be a good solution, the things you propose seems some extra technical work and flacky in some way (like if they depends of what translators do)
[09:47] <seb128> we should maybe have a whitelist that we do decide on
[09:48] <mpt> Currently the contents of the list does depend on what translators do, our minimum number of translated strings just happens to be 1
[09:50] <mpt> If we set a higher minimum, we have to make a political decision right now (reverse-engineering the minimum so that it produces a list we deem good), but we’d still avoid making political decisions in future
[10:27] <Aj_> hey
[10:27] <Aj_> i have some doughts about ubuntu phone
[10:28] <popey> Maybe you mean "doubts"?
[10:28] <Aj_> please any help me to clear that
[10:28] <Aj_> ?
[10:28] <popey> !ask
[10:28] <Aj_> sorry i am first timer forgive me
[10:28] <popey> np
[10:28] <popey> just ask your questions, whatever they are
[10:29] <sturmflut2> Interesting, there is a city in China called "Meizhou"
[10:29] <Aj_> is this possible to create a mobile phone of our own ?
[10:29] <Aj_> with ubuntu touch
[10:29] <ogra_> if you have enough money ...
[10:29] <popey> Aj_: how do you mean? Make one with a soldering iron?
[10:30] <Aj_> no ofc no
[10:30] <popey> You mean port it to another device?
[10:30] <ogra_> popey, why not ... might not be very "handy" though :)
[10:30] <Aj_> i collected details for the hardware manufactures
[10:30] <popey> :)
[10:31] <Aj_> and is there a way to put it all in one like a real one
[10:31] <Aj_> ?
[10:31] <Aj_> a real mobile
[10:31] <ogra_> http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html ... thats a pretty real mobile running it
[10:31] <popey> Yes and no.
[10:31] <Aj_> okay
[10:32] <popey> Yes, it's possible. No, it's not really practical for most people.
[10:32] <Aj_> why isnt that possible ?
[10:32] <popey> Nobody said it isn't possible.
[10:32] <Aj_> okay
[10:33] <Aj_> i was interested in ubuntu edge proogram
[10:33] <Aj_> and i really miss it when they pulled back that project
[10:33] <Aj_> how could i make a mobile like that
[10:33] <Aj_> ?
[10:34] <popey> Hah.
[10:34] <ogra_> if you have enough money ...
[10:34] <Aj_> money is okay
[10:34] <Aj_> how can i ?
[10:35] <popey> We haven't done it.
[10:35] <popey> Maybe better asking someone who has.
[10:35] <Aj_> we can design it and i have enough resourses to prototype it
[10:35] <ogra_> you find a HW manufacturer, give them the specs (and the money) and have them produce it
[10:35] <Aj_> okay
[10:35] <Aj_> htink i have the hardwre
[10:36] <Aj_> then whats is the main things i have to done to the ubuntu touch os
[10:36] <ogra_> tthen you grab the androiid source tree for that device and follow the porting guide ...
[10:36] <Aj_> to make it optimised to the h/w
[10:36] <Aj_> ?
[10:36] <ogra_> (to create the container with drivers that ubuntu uses)
[10:37] <ogra_> once you have that you create images using your container and kernel together with the generic ubuntu rootfs ...
[10:37] <Aj_> okay
[10:37] <Aj_> okay
[10:38] <ogra_> thats it ...
[10:38] <Aj_> then ?
[10:38] <popey> ???
[10:38] <popey> profit
[10:38] <ogra_> well, then you fix bugs :) ... and then you sell it and get rich (or not) :)
[10:38] <Aj_> ao all the process and apps for the camera sound harware all includes it ?
[10:39] <ogra_> that part should be in the container
[10:39] <Aj_> okay
[10:39] <ogra_> the container ships the android hardware abstraction layer to make sensors, camera, graphics drivers and gps work
[10:40] <Aj_> :-)
[11:48] <seb128> mpt, sorry, left for lunch, sure we can do that, it's just that counting translations on disk is slow, like if we look at what is installed in 30 directories it might make the panel init some seconds slower, or we need to cache the value but it's it starts being less trivial work (which is doable, but seeing our todolist not something I would count getting at this year)
[12:17] <mpt> seb128, Andreea_’s conclusion was that separating out the locale selection into a separate step would expand the first-run setup changes too much for now, too
[12:23] <Andreea_> Hi guys
[12:25] <Andreea_> I would keep the language list as it is for now and improve the overall OOBE experience. we will also have some new screens and one of the is the Country screen.
[12:27] <Andreea_> would be great if we have a flawless OOBE, no bugs, smooth interactions and a great design.
[12:54] <ogra_> seb128, given that these language directories are most likely on the readonly portion of the fs, why not pre-populate the info somehow
[12:54] <ogra_> (you could collect all lang info at the end of the rootfs build)
[14:21] <jgdx> kenvandine, you know if vivid + overlay images are built for krillin?
[14:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, they are
[14:22] <jgdx> kenvandine, so mpt should be able to do a normal flash + silo install now?
[14:22] <jgdx> unless he already has
[14:22] <kenvandine> ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris.en
[14:22] <kenvandine> is the channel now
[14:23] <jgdx> kenvandine, thanks
[14:23]  * mcphail is on-call, and is struggling to resist the temptation to flash an rc-image...
[14:24] <mpt> jgdx, kenvandine, ok, trying that now
[14:26] <jgdx> mcphail, do it do it
[14:26] <mcphail> jgdx: what could possibly go wrong? ;)
[14:27] <jgdx> :)
[14:29] <studio_> hi
[14:32] <popey> hello
[14:32] <studio_> can someone here confirm, that the mx4 ubuntu edition can handle mhl? is yes, what version, 2.0 or 3.0?
[14:32] <studio_> is=if
[14:35] <popey> hard to say given they only went on sale yesterday
[14:36] <mcphail> on-sale? methinks the /topic needs updating?
[14:37] <anpok> studio_: the soc is supposed to handle it.. but if you look at the driver
[14:38] <anpok> studio_: http://www.siliconimage.com/solutions/mobile/ this one is probably used.. and there are drivers floating around.. but the quality is beyond imaginaion
[14:39] <ogra_> lol
[14:39] <ogra_> nice pun :)
[14:40] <mcphail> I was hoping they were going to be more expensive. Might be forced to buy one.
[14:42] <ogra_> mcphail, wait for the € or $ prices :)
[14:44] <mcphail> ogra_: I'm sure they will start appearing on HongKong ebay soon :)
[14:44] <ogra_> well, mind you, the chinese versions of meizu devices are usually completely locked down ...
[14:45] <ogra_> only the international version is open
[14:45] <mcphail> nasty...
[14:45] <ogra_> (not sure they do that smae thing on ubuntu though... for flyme based devices thats definitely true)
[14:45] <studio_> anpok, thanks for the url. i have seen that: http://www.siliconimage.com/Company/News_and_Events/Press_Releases/2014_02_23_-_Silicon_Image_Announces_New_MHL%C2%AE_Smartphone_Reference_Designs_with_MediaTek in the past, but that only can handle 1k
[14:46] <studio_> and the mt6595 can handle 4k en- and decode
[14:48] <jgdx> kenvandine, the device_name branch, do you want the cellular plugin to use SystemUpdate?
[14:48] <dobey> 1k?
[14:49] <kenvandine> jgdx, yes
[14:49] <jgdx> kenvandine, okk
[14:49] <studio_> 1k=1080p
[14:49] <kenvandine> the about plugin does that too, to get the device details
[14:50] <dobey> there is no such thing as 1k. it's just 1080p
[14:51] <studio_> SiI8620	MHL 3.0 Tx Supporting Up To 4K 2160P Ultra HD Resolution
[14:56] <dobey> sure
[15:01] <studio_> that is, why i do not understand, that manufacturer "cut" hardware features. the mt6595 and 6795 can, for exp., handle this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j0gCXjHuKQ
[15:01] <dobey> 1-3k don't exist though. 4k and 8k are valid things, and apparently some stupid marketing departments made 5k a thing.
[15:02] <mcphail> 4k means different things to different people
[15:02] <dobey> different people are wrong then
[15:03] <seb128> sergiusens, hey, could you review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/ubuntu/vivid/nuntium/drop-sys-events/+merge/246051 ?
[15:03] <seb128> (or find somebody to do)
[15:04] <mcphail> dobey: iirc, 4k was originally 4k across. Cinemas still use the term to mean that.
[15:04] <mcphail> (or down...)
[15:07] <dobey> mcphail: there are multiple 4k resolutions across different media, but in terms of computing technology, it pretty much always means 3840x2160
[15:07] <dobey> i don't think anyone ever called the IBM T21 as 4k
[15:08] <studio_> if it is true, i do not understand why meizu is using a Mt6595 with 4k en- and decoding in h.265 but for transmitting mhl 2.0 in 1080p
[15:09] <mcphail> studio_: best ask meizu...
[15:09] <dobey> i don't think it matters
[15:10] <studio_> dobey, right.
[15:12] <ogra_> well, rather ask imagination technologies why their PVR driver is like that :)
[15:14] <studio_> ogra_, that has noting to do with their drivers. i am now, since on year, waiting for a high performance smart phone, for exp. with an 6595 or 6795 and the docking station. but since now i can't buy. i thought ubuntu touch will be the solution ...
[15:15] <jgdx> kenvandine, reconfigured the hotspot branch since the MP changed
[15:16] <kenvandine> jgdx, ok
[15:16] <jgdx> kenvandine, and pushed r1376 to https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-system-settings/hotspots-binding/+merge/259392 for you to review :)
[15:16] <ogra_> studio_, you mean the graphics chipset would magically just work without driver support ?
[15:17] <dobey> how would ubuntu be a solution to hardware that doesn't exist?
[15:21] <studio_> ogra_, no. i thought canoncial is working with the manufacturer "together". - "now" i know,t hat there are "barriers". dobey, what is the convergence-device?
[15:21] <ogra_> studio_, canonical works with the phone manufacturer ... not with the singel parts manufacturers
[15:21] <dobey> studio_: there isn't one yet. the ubuntu edge device was not funded
[15:22] <dobey> and as you've been told many times already, the convergence story is not yet complete
[15:22] <ogra_> studio_, canonical has no influence on how imagination provides the PVR driver to meizu or how the PVR chip is wired to the SoC or some such
[15:22] <dobey> i don't see what that has to do with 4k mhl/hdmi support in the hardware itself though
[15:23] <dobey> 4k surely won't be required for it
[15:25] <ogra_> and yeah, convergence is for the 16.04 release
[15:32] <studio_> ogra_, will 16.04 be launch this year?
[15:33] <cwayne> 16.04 == april 2016
[15:34] <studio_> was that "Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth says Canonical will launch a phone capable of being used as a PC later in 2015" wrong?
[15:34] <popey> No
[15:34] <ogra_> nope
[15:34] <popey> But it might not be fully finished.
[15:34] <studio_> ehm?
[15:34] <ogra_> "capable of"
[15:34] <popey> Meaning you might get a device this year which could be considered 1.0.
[15:35] <ogra_> well, i guess more likely 0.99
[15:35] <ogra_> :)
[15:35] <studio_> ok
[15:35] <Laney> 0.99 recurring?
[15:35] <ogra_> convergence means there needs to be a snappy base first
[15:35] <ogra_> there wont be converged phones without snappy i suspect
[15:36] <ogra_> (as discussed in length at the online summit)
[15:37] <studio_> ogra_, does "snappy" mean, i have also to use it on my desktop?
[15:38] <ogra_> no
[15:38] <ogra_> you can (and should) but you dont have to
[15:39] <studio_> so on my desktop i can still install debian files (deb), but not on the touch device?
[15:40] <ogra_> on a deb based desktop you will always be able to install debs
[15:40] <studio_> deb is debian, isn't it?
[15:40] <ogra_> .deb is the package format debian uses, yes
[15:42] <studio_> so ubuntu and debian are going to seperate?
[15:42] <ogra_> no
[15:42] <studio_> sorry, i do not understand that :(
[15:42] <dobey> ubuntu and debian have always been separate. otherwise it would be debian, and not ubuntu
[15:42] <ogra_> you should have really participated in the online summit, it was all discussed publically and in detail with community participation there
[15:43] <dobey> ubuntu is still based on debian
[15:43] <ogra_> and that wont change
[15:45] <chrisccoulson> when apps are closed by swiping them in the app spread, are they just killed or do they get any chance to shut down properly?
[15:45] <mpt> Is there a tag for bugs that affect battery life?
[15:45] <dobey> chrisccoulson: they should already have their state stored, as they should be suspended already at that point
[15:45] <ogra_> chthey get sent a SIGSTOP ... and if they come back to fg they get a SIGCONT
[15:46] <mcphail> ogra_: no - he means when they are swiped away to close completely
[15:46] <chrisccoulson> dobey, thanks
[15:46] <ogra_> mcphail, aah !
[15:47] <ogra_> right, what dobey said
[15:47] <mcphail> dobey: that isn't true...
[15:47] <kenvandine> jgdx, so my device_name branch worked?  i never did get to test it :)
[15:47] <dobey> mcphail: yes it is
[15:48] <dobey> mcphail: whether apps are storing their state when given SIGSTOP is a separate problem
[15:48] <dobey> tedg: ^^ what i said is correct, right?
[15:48] <mcphail> dobey: i just checked and it isn't. Close browser. Reopen from icon: goes to splash screen. When splash screen is still loading swipe to app carousel. App keeps loading in background: can be swiped closed before it is suspended
[15:49] <tedg> They also get the Mir shutdown timeout.
[15:49] <dobey> mcphail: don't be confused by what you think you see
[15:49] <studio_> !seen john-mcaleely
[15:49] <tedg> So they get Mir "ask to shutdown" first
[15:49] <studio_> damn ;)
[15:49] <dobey> mcphail: no window visible != no process running
[15:50] <tedg> chrisccoulson, You should always get a couple seconds to save state.
[15:50] <mcphail> dobey: well, the backgrounded browser appears to load a new version of the browser page with updated content...
[15:51] <chrisccoulson> tedg, yeah - it's just that I realized whilst looking at https://github.com/GoogleChrome/voice-memos/issues/1 that we don't do anything in Oxide to flush profile data (and I suspect it's the cause of the problem mentioned in the last comment)
[15:51] <dobey> mcphail: it's not backgrounded. it's in the foreground. when you swipe an app away, whether it was in the foreground or background when you opened the app overview, the app goes through the same state saving stuff
[15:51] <popey> studio_: john-mcaleely is right here!
[15:51] <cwayne> he's on vacation this week though
[15:51] <ogra_> chyeah, you should flush it when going to bg
[15:52] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, ^^
[15:52] <tedg> chrisccoulson, Yes, you should always save right when Mir tells you to. You don't have much time :-)
[15:52] <ogra_> or store it ...
[15:52] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, tedg, thanks
[15:52] <anpok> studio_: re, one thing to add: the driver I was looking at seems to be shared between most mtk devices..  https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E4.5/tree/aquaris-E4.5/mediatek/kernel/drivers/mhl
[15:52] <studio_> popey, thanks, he is gray in my list and i thought he's offline ...
[15:52] <tedg> And, honesly you should try to free up as much resources as possible then as well.
[15:52] <mcphail> dobey: so, if you are on the app carousel and the browser is loading/displaying a page: if you swipe it upwards does it get a SIGSTOP before being killed?
[15:52] <tedg> If you get smaller, there is less likelihood you'll get killed, and thus you'll be faster to restart.
[15:52] <anpok> studio_: started looking at it.. with not so much success.. still is just a weekend project
[15:52] <dobey> mcphail: yes
[15:53] <mcphail> dobey: cool. Can we catch those signals with qml yet?
[15:53] <dobey> well, mir signal, sigstop, then killed after a couple seconds if still running, i think
[15:53] <ogra_> 3 sec iirc
[15:54] <tedg> I believe the StateSaver does so, so there has to be some way, but I don't know the QML interface.
[15:54] <dobey> mcphail: i'm the wrong person to ask that, because i'd say you whouldn't put logic in qml
[15:54] <mcphail> dobey: a purist :)
[15:54] <studio_> anpok, thanks again :) btw. do you know why the kernel for the bq e4.5 is built with nfc support?
[15:55] <dobey> studio_: ask bq why they build their kernel with nfc support enabled
[15:56] <ogra_> studio_, because nobody cared to turn it off ... it comes like that from bq
[15:57] <dobey> studio_: we don't alter the kernel build config from bq really, other than to enable certain necessary things for ubuntu to function properly, such as apparmor
[16:02] <studio_> dobey, sorry i don't understand. i thought you, canoncial, make the kernel including the patches?
[16:02] <ogra_> studio_, but that doiesnt mean we patch it more then necessary by playing around with the defaults in the config
[16:02] <dobey> studio_: we compile it for the ubuntu phone, sure. but we don't go through and try to tweak all the build config beyond what is necessary
[16:03] <dobey> studio_: as you've complained pointlessly many times before, the android version of e4.5 also has nfc enabled in the kernel. if you want to know what it is configured that way, the best place to ask is bq. we don't know why bq had it enabled there, if there is no nfc hardware.
[16:04] <ogra_> very likely simply because the get it like that from MTK :)
[16:05] <dobey> true
[16:05] <ogra_> and it would mean maintaining one extra patch for them
[16:05] <ogra_> which is pointless
[16:05] <studio_> dobey, beleve it or not, i asked at bq! and they told me, they forwarded that questions to canonial. but now no answer. :(
[16:05] <popey> studio_: you have an answer, that's how we get the kernel config from them, and we don't modify it much.
[16:06] <ogra_> studio_, disabling it means one extra patch to maintain for canonical ... it isnt worth the developer time that needs to be invested for this
[16:07] <studio_> popey, so it is as i thought. bq is the problem and not canocial. isn't it?
[16:07] <ogra_> not really
[16:07] <popey> not a problem
[16:07] <dobey> indeed, there is no problem with nfc being enabled or not in the kernel, when the hardware isn't there
[16:07] <ogra_> i doubt bq does anything to the kernel config ... nd as popey says, not a problem at all
[16:08] <dobey> you might as well complain that linux-image-generic in the archive has random hardware enabled, when you don't have the hardware
[16:10] <studio_> ogra_, bq is getting the sources from mediatek, same as kernel 3.10.54 (still not public) so they have to share their sources, right?
[16:12] <popey> we use 3.4, not 3.10 on bq
[16:13] <studio_> bq is on 3.10.54 (beta): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS29LCbzXts
[16:13] <popey> we aren't
[16:13] <studio_> i know
[16:13] <popey> so i dont see how that question is for us
[16:14] <dobey> lollipop is based on 3.10
[16:14] <ogra_> bq is getting kernels from mediatek, right
[16:14] <dobey> we aren't based on lollipop
[16:14] <ogra_> yeah, that will still take a long time i suspect
[16:14] <studio_> dobey, ubuntu 15.04 is based on what kernel?
[16:14] <ogra_> months at least
[16:14] <popey> 3.19.0-16-generic on my desktop
[16:15] <popey> oh, I'm on 15.10 :)
[16:15] <studio_> btw. i have seen 15.10 is out for the bq
[16:15] <mariogrip> awe: any ideas what can cause radio_state == RADIO_STATE_UNAVAILABLE? (ofono: plugins/ril.c) what i have found out is that set_powered (in src/modem.c:862)  is returning EINPROGRESS
[16:15] <studio_> same old kernel?
[16:15] <popey> yes
[16:15] <dobey> studio_: the bq phone images are built on kernel 3.4. phone images aren't built on the generic kernel in the ubuntu archive
[16:15] <ogra_> until the pahblet tree gets switched to lollipop it will stay like this
[16:16] <studio_> popey, so the ubuntu version is not depending from the kernel?
[16:16] <popey> see above
[16:16] <popey> we're on 3.4
[16:16] <popey> (on bq)
[16:16] <studio_> ok
[16:16] <dobey> not that anything would necessarily change with the kernel config, even if the switch to 3.10 happened
[16:17] <ogra_> yeah, most unlikely ...
[16:18] <ogra_> we have to port a ton of fixes already, unlikely anyone plays with the config
[16:19] <studio_> another question, who, here, is using the vegetahd 16/2 GB version?
[16:19] <mariogrip> my new app is soon finish now :D https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56653875/photo343647892951640029.jpg
[16:20] <ogra_> studio_, nobody yet it isnt on slae
[16:20] <ogra_> *sale
[16:20] <jcbjoe> im on a nexus 4 running ubuntu touch .. when i turn cellular data on my nexus 4 gets burning hot .. any ideas ?
[16:23] <studio_> ogra_, it is. you can buy the bq E5 16/2 or Fnac 5 2 16/2
[16:23] <ogra_> studio_, not the ubuntu version ... ifc you want to install android devices, go to #android
[16:24] <dobey> !devices | studio_
[16:25] <ogra_> :)
[16:25] <studio_> ogra_, it is easy to install ubuntu on it, isn't it the same as on the bq E4.5 / Fnac ?
[16:25] <awe> mariogrip, so when the modem code calls rilmodem's modem->enable() function, it's supposed to return EINPROGRESS.  The function create_gril sets up a listener for the UNSOL_CONNECTED signal, which causes ril_connected() to get invoked, which then notifies the core that the modem is 'powered'
[16:26] <awe> 'powered' in rilmodem means that the socket connection to rild has been established
[16:26] <studio_> john made the recovery-vegetahd.img public. with the right scatter.txt it schould work.
[16:26] <awe> it has nothing to do with the actual modem/radio power
[16:27] <ogra_> studio_, IT IS NOT ... stop making that claim, the partitioning is different if you want to talk about android devices, talk in an android channel, if you want support wiuth a preinstalled ubuntu device, come here ... dobey, popey and me wen through the issues you had on your 4.5 due to that already, i for my case will *NOT* support anything that you do with an android device you hacked ubuntu into anymore
[16:27] <studio_> dobey, i know that list, and john updated it
[16:27] <ogra_> either buy an ubuntu device or get along yourself ...
[16:29] <mariogrip> awe what about this? UNSOL_RESPONSE_RADIO_STATE_CHANGED (state: UNAVAILABLE
[16:29] <studio_> ogra_, did you built the kernel from the git, i do not think so. i own both, android an ubuntu touch, MT6582_Android_scatter.txt, because i built both kernels
[16:29] <dobey> studio_: then you're asking questions that are already answered
[16:30] <awe> mariogrip, that means the radio hasn't yet been powered on
[16:30] <mariogrip> awe:  https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mE2zSfVo
[16:30] <studio_> no, i asked, who is using the 16/2 version
[16:30] <ogra_> studio_, nobody, because it is not on sale yet
[16:30] <ogra_> just to repeat my answer again +
[16:31] <sturmflut2> So I sit here for way too many seconds, trying to use Ubuntu Touch gestures on an Android Nexus 5, and wondering why nothing happens
[16:31] <mariogrip> awe: full log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11208984/
[16:31] <ogra_> sturmflut2, lol, happens all the time to me
[16:31] <sturmflut2> Oh the embarrassment
[16:31] <kenvandine> sturmflut2, :-D
[16:31] <svij> sturmflut2: I know that feeling. :)
[16:31] <awe> mariogrip, is the modem online?
[16:31] <ogra_> (not that i touch android very often, but if i do )
[16:32] <awe> I think set-online happens automatically.  My guess is that it's not working properly
[16:32] <awe> what happens if you try to manually online the modem?
[16:32] <dobey> sturmflut2: try using anything other than webos after 4 years of using it, then you'll know suffering :)
[16:33] <sturmflut2> ogra_: There are still a couple of things not available on the bq, so I carry both devices, but the bq is slowly winning.
[16:33] <ogra_> yay
[16:33] <dobey> sturmflut2: gestures being different and not having a hardwrae keyboard are painful
[16:33] <dobey> err, hardware
[16:33] <ogra_> dobey, start a crowdfunding campaign for a clippable BT keyboard ;)
[16:33] <mariogrip> awe, with the online-modem it just trows a python error
[16:33] <dobey> ogra_: egad no
[16:33] <sturmflut2> dobey: I wonder why there arent't more Android devices with hardware keyboards. I know a couple of people who cling to their BlackBerrys because of this.
[16:33] <ogra_> haha
[16:34] <dobey> ogra_: today's phones are already too enormous :(
[16:34] <studio_> ogra_, the phone was on sale up to december 2014 for 190 Euro, it is still possible to buy it from some distributions in spain and also via ebay. so why do you repeat your answer "it is not on sale"?
[16:34] <awe> mariogrip, and does ofono output anything when you run it?
[16:34] <dobey> !devices | studio_
[16:34] <awe> ( both in syslog and the actual traces? )
[16:34] <dobey> studio_: there is no such device sold with ubuntu on it
[16:34] <ogra_> studio_, talk to someone else please, i wont get into these discussions anymore... THE UBUNTU VERSION IS NOT ON SALE !
[16:34] <popey> studio_: its not avilable with ubuntu is the point he is making
[16:35] <mariogrip> ogra_: http://community.o2.co.uk/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/13614i436B60240E67D0AD?v=mpbl-1 :)
[16:35] <ogra_> studio_, come back once you booufght an ubuntu preinstalled vegetahd and we can talk, i will *NOT* go through all your "i flashed this and that" stuff again
[16:35] <mariogrip> awe, i will give it a try, give me a minute
[16:35] <studio_> popey, it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[16:36] <dobey> studio_: no it isn't
[16:36] <popey> studio_: show me the link to where you can buy it with ubuntu pre-installed
[16:36]  * ogra_ hugs mariogrip 
[16:36] <dobey> studio_: do you know what "Work in Progress" means?
[16:36] <dobey> it does not mean "supported and avaialble for purchase at your local cell phone store"
[16:36]  * mariogrip hugs back :)
[16:36] <studio_> popey, show me a ling to buy a google phone with ubuntu
[16:37] <popey> i dont have to
[16:37] <studio_> :)
[16:37] <popey> I'm not the one asserting it's available
[16:37] <popey> now just stop please
[16:37] <studio_> is it a secret?
[16:37] <dobey> studio_: learn to read please
[16:37] <ogra_> +1
[16:37] <popey> is what a secret?
[16:37] <popey> the fact that it's listed on the wiki clearly "no".
[16:38] <studio_> a secret to flash a E5 to ubuntu touch?
[16:38] <popey> no
[16:38] <studio_> so
[16:38] <popey> we just dont support that
[16:38] <popey> We are not obligated to help you do random stuff with devices you buy on ebay.
[16:38] <ogra_> well, we do if you use the proper tools on a preinstalled device
[16:38] <popey> Contrary to what you may think.
[16:38] <ogra_> the proper tool being ubuntu-device-flash
[16:39] <dobey> just like they don't mix woks with the tomatoes at the supermarket
[16:39] <popey> ogra_: not yet available.
[16:39] <popey> ergo, "we do not"
[16:39] <ogra_> for any other flash tools, talk to their providers
[16:39] <ogra_> yes, once it is available indeed
[16:39] <popey> studio_: you have your answers, please read them. enough now.
[16:40] <ogra_> popey, point is that once it is available ubuntu-device-flash will also support it :) and it wont before ;)
[16:40] <popey> right.
[16:41]  * ogra_ notes the backlog and apologizes for the caps to everyone not involved ... i guess i havent used that many cps in 5 years on one day
[16:41] <ogra_> :)
[16:41] <ogra_> *caps
[16:41] <studio_> i understood, that bq is so open, to make everything as they can do public, but i don't understand you.
[16:42] <ogra_> obviously
[16:42] <popey> studio_: we have explained this before.
[16:42] <popey> studio_: please go back and re-read your logs.
[16:44] <studio_> popey, i don't need to re-read. i understood ...
[16:47] <studio_> dear john-mcaleely, thank you so much to make the recovery-vegetahd.img public! thumbs up !!!
[16:50] <awe> mariogrip, so... a quick additional note.  By default, on touch, there's a daemon called urfkill which is responsible for setting the modem online; this daemon is also responsible for making flight-mode work
[16:50] <awe> when it sets the modem online, the default ril plugin sends a REQUEST_RADIO_POWER (ON)
[16:51] <awe> my guess is that your device might have it's own version of this request, or use an OEM specific request
[16:52] <awe> for instance the MTK-based devices don't work with the std ril power request ( see plugins/mtk.c )
[16:52] <awe> anyways, I have to run out to lunch; bbl
[16:52] <mariogrip> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11209367/ awe
[16:52] <mariogrip> awe: okey
[16:54] <borg286> Can someone point me to where I can submit a feature request for ubuntu touch. I'd like the intro tutorial to listen to keyboard input for cases when the screen is broken and the user has installed a keyboard in the usb
[16:55] <ogra_> borg286, see channle topic, there is a bug link
[16:55] <borg286> thx, heading to bug filing
[16:59] <ChloeWolfieGirl> Is there going to be a default map app for ubuntu on the phone?
[17:00] <ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, you mean beyond "HERE" ?
[17:01] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, yeah, HERE is a webapp isn't it? It'd be nice to have an app that was much more integrated with the system and was more like the other system apps!
[17:03] <ogra_> while it uses a webview ... it also uses a lot of QML and Qt :)
[17:06] <ogra_> (i.e. it is a lot more than just the usual container webapp )
[17:06] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, Is it in the appstore and does it use the ubuntu system look? I just think it'd be ashame and offputting if you went from a smooth music app or gallery app but then needed to find a location or you're looking at a scope which has a great gui it tells you this place so you tap to show you it on a map and then all of a sudden you're using something which looks out of place isn't as smooth to use etc etc
[17:07] <ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, i totally agree it should be better integrated, specifically theme wise :)
[17:07] <ogra_> but after all the map view will likely always be a webview
[17:08] <ogra_> the surrounding elements can surely be tweaked
[17:08] <jcbjoe> i got a question when i turn on gps and location services it never finds my location .. using a nexus 4 with ubuntu-touch 14.04
[17:09]  * mcphail is beginning to feel the "swipe from right" gesture is a bit overloaded :(
[17:09] <dobey> jcbjoe: 14.04? you *really* need to upgrade your phone
[17:09] <ogra_> yeah
[17:09] <jcbjoe> hmm ?
[17:09] <dobey> current stable channel is 14.10
[17:10] <jcbjoe> sorry im on 14.10
[17:10] <dobey> and will be 15.04 soon
[17:10] <jcbjoe> dobey: ogra_ it is 14.10 my bad
[17:12] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, yeah, fair does, I couldn't find the app in the store so I think its out at the moment, and I was using a location scope and it pulled me into the browser to here maps, which is fine but the look and feel is very different from native, and it kind of confused me because before then I was using OSMTouch which has a native look to it, it doesn't have all the features you want and can be a bit buggy, I also saw a map icon for apps and though
[17:12] <ChloeWolfieGirl> t that canonical would be making there own map app based on other mapping systems just like what Gnome did with there maps
[17:14] <ogra_> i think the HERE app is worked on hand in hand with nokia ... but i dont know who it doing that ...
[17:14] <ogra_> *is doing
[17:15] <mcphail> ogra_: there HERE app only comes with krillin builds, though, doesn't it?
[17:15] <ogra_> well, with preinstalled phones
[17:15] <ogra_> (it will be on the other phones too most likely)
[17:17] <dobey> i think it's some of the images for the n4 too, but not all of themm
[17:18] <ogra_> yeah, not the community ones
[17:18] <mcphail> not open source?
[17:18] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, Yeah I know Nokia does HERE and I know that canonical is using HERE for getting location data so perhaps having HERE as default may be part of the deal, Does location work like links and if a app specifies something it'll go to that app instead of the web?
[17:18] <ogra_> not matching ubuntu license standards (requiring an EULA)
[17:19] <mcphail> good reason, then
[17:19] <ogra_> there is a -here channel somewhere ... even for the N4
[17:19] <ogra_> and if you want working location without waiting 20min for a GPS fix, thats the channel you want i guess
[17:19] <dobey> ChloeWolfieGirl: not sure what scope you're talking about. it might just be using here urls
[17:20] <ogra_> since HERE is a lot more than just the app
[17:20] <mcphail> I think it went missining from krillin when I was trying the vivid channels, but GPS didn't work anyway
[17:20] <ChloeWolfieGirl> ogra_, does that mean community ports of ubuntu touch wont have HERE location tracking?
[17:20] <ogra_> ChloeWolfieGirl, they dont have it now ...
[17:20] <dobey> ChloeWolfieGirl: not by default they won't i guess. i'm not sure why it's not in the store, if it is't
[17:20] <dobey> isn't
[17:21] <ogra_> as i said, there is a special channel that has HERE included even for the community version
[17:21] <ogra_> and without the backends your GPS will only do raw GPS ... which means 15-20mmin til you can use location
[17:21] <dobey> well, if you build following the channel that has here, i guess you will get here, in you're port
[17:21] <mcphail> Unfortunately, the only time I needed to really use it, it placed me 5 miles away
[17:21] <ogra_> HERE provides the agps db that enables you to get a GPS fix faster
[17:22] <ogra_> mcphail, yeah, there were some fixes very recently that made it a bit more accurate
[17:22] <mcphail> ogra_: that's good to know. I'm sure it was fine when I'd tested it, but it let me down when I needed it :)
[17:31] <dobey> doesn't sound fine :)
[17:32] <ogra_> yeah
[17:39] <JanC> why is the "raw GPS" so slow?  even my old USB GPS gets a fix in seconds...
[17:43] <dobey> JanC: antenna design and power usage, probably.
[17:43] <ogra_> and sattelite visibility
[17:50] <JanC> maybe also the actual GPS chip/core & whether it can track multiple sats in parallel?
[17:58] <Elleo> ogra_: do we cache the almanac? a cold sync shouldn't be needed every time as almanac data is valid for quite a long time (half a year I think)
[18:01] <JanC> IIUC downloading the almanac every time would result in _at least_ 12.5 minutes TTFF?
[18:01] <ogra_> Elleo, you have to ask tvoss or mandel
[18:01] <Elleo> ogra_: according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix it should be possible to do a warm fix as long as the user hasn't moved more than a 100km from their previous location
[18:01] <JanC> and valid for 180 days
[18:01] <Elleo> ogra_: okay, will poke them tomorrow and see if there's any low hanging fruit there for the non-AGPS mode
[18:01] <ogra_> (i think both are off this week)
[18:01] <Elleo> ah, okay; I'll poke them next week then ;)
[18:03] <mcphail> Is 100km the limit? I thought it was further than that. My car GPS unit only usually complains if I start it in a new country, but a few 100 miles doesn't tend to annoy it
[18:04] <Elleo> mcphail: not sure, I'm just going from that wikipedia page for that figure
[18:24] <pundir> ogra_, hi.. does ubuntu-touch use android's native libGLES* implementation for accel display or does it uses its own framework?
[18:45] <jgdx> kenvandine, wut :p
[18:48] <kenvandine> jgdx, hey... in your hotspot_binding branch, please add a comment above the import for Updates that this is only a temp solution until we don't need to blacklist mako
[18:49] <kenvandine> jgdx, i guess i could have commented on the MP :)
[18:49] <jgdx> kenvandine, 'tis fine
[18:49] <seb128> jgdx, thanks :-) (sorry, I've been grumpy with Ken about importing another panel backend just for that workaround)
[18:50] <jgdx> seb128, haha
[18:51] <mariogrip> ogra_ when the ubuntu-device-flash has the --bootstrap option, does it use the "fastboot getvar product" to fetch device name?
[18:51] <kenvandine> seb128, you're never grumpy :)
[18:52] <seb128> lol
[18:54] <jgdx> seb128, you meant that one comment with needs information? :p
[18:54] <jgdx> low threshold
[18:54] <seb128> hehe
[18:55] <seb128> I was pondering using needs fixing :p
[18:55] <dobey> needs exorcising
[18:56] <seb128> but anyway, thanks for adding the comment ;-)
[18:56] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah... but the import isn't in the same MP :)
[18:56] <jgdx> kenvandine, we're okay that the message mako users sees (for the time being) is "you can't hotspot because wifi is off"?
[18:56] <jgdx> or just hide the whole thing maybe
[18:57] <seb128> hide it I would say, wifi is not off so that would be confusing?
[18:57] <kenvandine> hide the whole thing
[18:58] <jgdx> yep
[19:08] <jgdx> kenvandine, pushed 1378 with comment and visibility change
[19:08] <kenvandine> jgdx, thx
[19:21] <taiebot> Hi quick question what is the command line to see the demo on boot?
[19:27] <mariogrip> getting "error pushing: failed to copy '/home/chloe/.cache/ubuntuimages/ubuntu-touch/vivid-devel/MSM8974/version-1.tar.xz' to '/cache/recovery/': Is a directory" when trying to install using ubuntu-device-flash tool? any ideas?
[19:28] <jgdx> taiebot, dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.canonical.PropertyService /com/canonical/PropertyService com.canonical.PropertyService.SetProperty string:edge boolean:true
[19:30] <sturmflut> mariogrip: What device and channel is that?
[19:30] <mariogrip> oneplus one, using my own system-image server
[19:31] <sturmflut> mariogrip: Ah. The error message is quite strange, is the source file actually a file?
[19:31] <mariogrip> awe: btw, got the log of after trying "online-modem" http://paste.ubuntu.com/11209367/
[19:32] <mariogrip> sturmflut: she will check, one moment
[19:35] <awe> mariogrip, the RADIO_POWER request is failing... as I expected.  As mentioned previously, you're going to have to either reverse engineer by looking at the Cyanogenmod code, or modifying the libril in a vanilla CM or AOSP build to log the RIL requests
[19:35] <awe> my guess is the device either uses an OEM specific power request
[19:35] <awe> and/or it has different parameters than the vanilla RIL power request
[19:36] <mariogrip> sturmflut: yes, it is a file.
[19:36] <awe> again, take a look at plugins/mtk.c to see an example of different power/radio logic
[19:36] <awe> unfortunately, this is the hard part of enabling a device without tech support from the modem vendor
[19:38] <mariogrip> awe: okay, thanks, i will see what i find out.
[19:38] <mariogrip> one more thing, what part of the source is sending the RIL requests?
[19:43] <mariogrip> awe ^
[19:47] <awe> mariogrip, so most of the code handling ril requests lives in drivers/rilmodem
[19:48] <mariogrip> awe, k
[19:48] <awe> mariogrip, that said the device plugins occasionally send them, and handle unsolicited replies as well
[19:48] <awe> eg. the RIL_CONNECT message for instance
[19:48] <mariogrip> awe, k
[19:50] <awe> if you look at the ril plugin's set_online() function, it calls ril_send_power() which sends a  RIL_REQUEST_RADIO_POWER message
[19:58] <mariogrip> awe, it looks like cm's RIL.java uses  RIL_REQUEST_RADIO_POWER https://github.com/CyanogenMod/android_frameworks_opt_telephony/blob/cm-11.0/src/java/com/android/internal/telephony/RIL.java#L1592
[20:06] <awe> mariogrip, then there's something else going on...
[20:06] <awe> maybe a quick look at the radio log could shed some light on this
[20:07] <awe> otherwise as explained before, you probably should try and get a full RIL trace for a device running CM if possible
[20:14] <mariogrip> awe, here is a radio log from CM http://paste.ubuntu.com/11212161/
[20:14] <mariogrip> i will try to make a full RIL trace it that does not help
[20:18] <awe> mariogrip, the trace shows the radio coming on eventually.  I also notice that there's a bunch of OEM_HOOK_RAW requests flying about
[20:18] <awe> that means "special sauce"
[20:19] <awe> you may need to talk to abeato about this tomorrow.  He did some reverse engineering of a few of our supported devices which uses OEM_HOOKs
[20:20] <awe> also, I'm not sure if it's possible to get hex traces from RIL, but that would be helpful as well.  Then you can start comparing the messages to what we send
[20:22] <mariogrip> awe, I will give him a ping tomorrow, i will just play around and see what i find... debugging is fun isn't it? :)
[20:22] <awe> sometimes.  ;)-
[23:24] <eggbeater> I am thinking about making a project with a Raspberry Pi, and I wanted to use Ubuntu Touch for it. Where would I be able to download the OS?
[23:31] <ahoneybun> eggbeater: would have to port it to that device, I know there is a Ubuntu Snappy Core for the 2nd model
[23:33] <eggbeater> ahoneybun: how would I do that?