[04:27] <mapps> hm
[04:48] <knightwise> Morning everyone
[04:49] <knightwise> hey mapps
[04:49] <knightwise> how areyou
[05:39] <mapps> yay
[05:39] <mapps> hey
[05:39] <mapps> im good
[05:39] <mapps> 5 days and back in Knighstbridge
[05:39] <mapps> ;D
[05:39] <mapps> GIB -> LHR ->Knightsbridge (tube)
[05:39] <mapps> probably take ~ 4-5hrs
[05:41] <mapps> then 5 days later the same miserable journey back;[
[05:48] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[05:49] <mapps> morning
[05:49] <mapps> episode 7 of secrets and lies then bedtime;)
[05:51] <brobostigon> morning mapps
[05:51] <mapps> morn
[05:55] <mapps> 3 more eps
[05:55] <mapps> i wanna see it all but need to sleep
[05:56] <mapps> 10mins of secrets and lies then silicon valley
[05:56] <mapps> anyone else watch silicon valley?
[05:59] <zmoylan-pi> i like silicon valley o/
[06:00] <mapps> yea
[06:00] <mapps> cool show what ep u on
[06:08] <zmoylan-pi> last weeks.
[06:11] <zmoylan-pi> *squeak squeak squeak*
[06:11] <mapps> :D
[07:27] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:55] <diplo> Morning all
[08:17] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[08:59] <diplo> torrential rain here :( if it keeps going like this we're going to be flooded :D
[09:02] <zmoylan-pi> light rain here, so technically a drought :-)
[09:02] <diplo> We had light rain from 6am onwards
[09:03] <MooDoo> not nice here too, should be done by dinner time, fingers crossed
[09:04] <popey> gonna pick up this afternoon http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2649672
[09:08] <diplo> yeah this afternoon it supposedly is clearing up, back to rain until Thursday :(
[09:16] <popey> then a good bank holiday weekend
[09:18]  * popey books next tuesday off
[09:21] <MooDoo> i'm thinking friday
[09:22] <diplo> Hopefully it clears up, my birthday Tuesday, another wedding this weekend and half term, so need to take some time off with the boys!
[09:24] <TwistedLucidity> diplo: Houses on pontoons, you know it makes sense! And yes, they really are an actual thing.
[09:24] <TwistedLucidity> Bank Holiday (which I can remembered to book off for once) and beer festival. Huzzah!
[09:39] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy No Dirty Dishes Day! 😃
[09:40] <zmoylan-pi> paperplates ftw!! \o/
[09:41] <Sebsebsebb> Morning
[09:41] <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, it's the way forward!
[09:43] <Sebsebsebb> hmm laptops two to choose from both the same really except for the processor and graphics and I don't know which one would be better to go for really with Linux comparability in mind as well
[09:43] <directhex> Sebsebsebb: what are the options?
[09:44] <zmoylan-pi> the older chipset is usally the most compatible.  _usually_
[09:44] <bashrc> yes
[09:44] <Sebsebsebb> also I assume these machines are more than  good enough to run virtualbox and some Linux 3d games
[09:46] <Sebsebsebb> intersingly the one on the hp site with intel processor and graphics is out of stock at the moment and quite a bit more than the and one at john lewis
[09:46] <Sebsebsebb> Yes that's what I been thinking the older hardware is probably more compatibke
[09:46] <directhex> well...
[09:46] <Sebsebsebb> its intel vs and I'll get links now
[09:47] <directhex> that's not always a useful thing to think
[09:47] <directhex> many parts of a system basically don't change between revisions, so the older one isn't more compatible, it's just older
[09:47] <directhex> hence 10:43 <directhex> Sebsebsebb: what are the options?
[09:49] <ali1234> make sure the intel one has virtualization support
[09:49] <ali1234> a lot of intel mobile chips have it disabled
[09:49] <Sebsebsebb> i think that's rather new intel processor and graphics but not suet, however it seems the Appollo on http://entroware.com runs the same or similar hardware, and the AMD hardware has been around a year or so already I think going by looking up
[09:49] <Sebsebsebb> ill get the actdual links to the two machines now
[09:51] <Sebsebsebb> yeah without hardware virtualisation support stuck with software, but yeah with 8gb ram guess what I want to use it for? Yes running at last two vms at once I guess
[09:51] <Sebsebsebb> at times
[09:52] <Sebsebsebb> linux distro vms :)
[09:53] <Sebsebsebb> http://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Product.aspx?id=M0R72EA&opt=ABU&sel=PCNB
[09:53] <Sebsebsebb> yeah looks like these lap tops are similar to the lenovo yogas
[09:54] <Sebsebsebb> there was a older one from last year that apparantly going by a comment was nicely linux compatible, but not sure about the later
[09:54] <Sebsebsebb> and now for the John Lewis link....
[09:55] <TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: You can spec that Apollo in other places for about £100 less, but of course you don't get any GNU/Linux support and nothing flows back to other projects.
[09:56] <Sebsebsebb> Yes not buying entroware since to expensive for what actually get
[09:56] <popey> (1366 x 768) :(
[09:57] <Sebsebsebb> so yes the hp kink is what I was thinking as a possibility since I want small and portable to and the one with and hardware instead of intel was on John Lewis so I'll get that link now
[09:58] <Sebsebsebb> popey what for the computer I linked to?
[09:58] <popey> the hp one
[09:58] <popey> I'm looking for a laptop, and 1366x768 was the resolution of laptop I bought 3 years ago
[09:58] <popey> and it was silly then
[09:58] <Sebsebsebb> oh
[09:59] <Sebsebsebb> well I guess a bit of a rubbushey resolution since it'd a 13 inch screen?
[09:59] <directhex> well, there's no law saying 13" means crap resolution
[10:00] <directhex> it's a windows problem
[10:00] <directhex> basically, traditional windows apps don't scale well to non-100 DPI. which has guided laptop screen resolution for decades
[10:00] <directhex> making high res screens was never impossible - users just hated it
[10:01] <directhex> i had a housemate with a high DPI (1600x1200) laptop screen on a dell in 2002. they just stopped making them due to customers complaining about tiny fonts
[10:01] <directhex> windows 8 is better at it, especially on "metro" apps
[10:01] <directhex> and he's gone
[10:01] <directhex> bloody mibbit
[10:02] <ali1234> all he had to do was post two links
[10:02] <directhex> yeah, sometimes that's too much for people
[10:03] <directhex> providing the info needed to help is a big ask
[10:03] <ali1234> i don't really see the point of hi dpi, my eyes just aren't good enough for that
[10:03] <ali1234> i mean if you have a 42" TV then maybe, but 13"?
[10:03] <directhex> to an extent, that's the idea
[10:03] <directhex> to make pixels so tiny you can't distinguish them
[10:04] <bashrc> probably makes little difference at 13"
[10:04] <zmoylan-pi> i watch most stuff on 7" tablet as my eyes are happiest with that
[10:04] <ali1234> that's what i mean though. i can't distinguish pixels on my 24" 1920x1200 monitor
[10:04] <Sebsebsebb> Ok so same machine by the looks of it but amd hardware instead http://www.johnlewis.com/hp-pavilion-x360-13-a052na-convertible-laptop-amd-a8-8gb-ram-1tb-13-3-touch-screen-silver/p1833363?navAction=jump
[10:05] <ali1234> to be quite honest i would not touch HP with a long pointy stick
[10:05] <ali1234> given the choice between those two though, i would get the intel if the extra £150 was not an issue
[10:06] <directhex> i would not touch an AMD laptop with a long pointy stick
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi> touching hp with a spear is _one_ way to destroy it... :-)
[10:07] <ali1234> i would consider buying from john lewis though
[10:07] <ali1234> their customer support is much better than what you will get if you buy direct from the manufacturer
[10:08] <Sebsebsebb> Well my Asus eeepc x101ch that replacing now well once got a computer was a 10 inch worked alright but some of the Linux programs would get cut off
[10:08] <TwistedLucidity> That's a cheap HP consumer unit - it will have issues.
[10:08] <zmoylan-pi> they have to be seen to be adding something to the buying experience.  can make the 3rd party well worth the money
[10:08] <TwistedLucidity> Entroware is re-badged Clevo (like many small-scale re-sellers) - it will have issues.
[10:08] <TwistedLucidity> e.g. I am not 100% sure the touchpad works properly
[10:10] <directhex> there are only like 10 companies that make laptops anyway. the big-names are still wistron or clevo
[10:10] <ali1234> that many?
[10:10] <ali1234> but yes. they are all made to a budget by the same handful of companies and you get what you pay for
[10:11] <bashrc> if you're getting a laptop I think there are ones which ship with ubuntu installed
[10:11] <ali1234> even better than that, ou can get ones that ship with ubuntu mate :)
[10:11] <bashrc> yes I think so
[10:11] <ali1234> ...from entroware
[10:12] <ali1234> they cost twice what these HPs cost though
[10:12] <awilkins> My HP started doing a weird thing
[10:12] <bashrc> I would be tempted to go with something where I knew there weren't going to be weird problems (eg. with graphics/wifi)
[10:12] <awilkins> Shutting it down makes it reboot
[10:13] <directhex> foxconn, wistron, clevo, compal, quanta, ecs, asus, pegatron, flextec, inventec, uniwill, arima, mitac, fic
[10:13] <directhex> i think that's the full list
[10:13] <awilkins> Saw a similar ticket for another HP model that claimed a BIOS update fixed it but it doesn't
[10:13] <ali1234> https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/apollo
[10:14] <bashrc> also beware of EFI stuff that can't be turned off if it ships with Windows
[10:14] <ali1234> that is actually not massively more expensive than the intel HP
[10:14] <directhex> bashrc: like?
[10:14] <ali1234> and has a better screen
[10:14] <ali1234> not 360 degree hinge but that is a gimmick and will probably break
[10:15] <bashrc> I don't know, but remember reading something about some windows systems not having the ability to turn off EFI
[10:15] <directhex> bashrc: you can't turn off EFI. computers only have one firmware. on modern ones, it's EFI
[10:15] <directhex> whether or not you can enable BIOS emulation isn't the same thing
[10:15] <directhex> (and BIOS emulation is bad, not good, kids!)
[10:15] <Sebsebsebb> Uh just lost what I was typing silly ipad
[10:15] <ali1234> also it has better networking
[10:16] <directhex> moving from BIOS to UEFI is one of the best bits about my new desktop
[10:16] <Sebsebsebb> and yes uefi worrys me a bit
[10:16] <directhex> BIOS is so bad it's funny
[10:16] <directhex> i for one welcome our new UEFI overlords
[10:16] <ali1234> i tried to do uefi on my dad's PC but ubuntu wouldn't boot
[10:17] <ali1234> it would boot the installer, install, boot up once, and then refuse to ever work again
[10:17] <Sebsebsebb> ideally need to make sure can turn uefi off but distros have support now more
[10:17] <ali1234> so i just switched it to bios mode
[10:17] <ali1234> then it worked fine
[10:17] <directhex> Sebsebsebb: "turn off UEFI" makes literally no sense
[10:17] <directhex> "i turned off my firmware" is nonsense. "i forced 1970s boot emulation" isn't the same thing as "i turned off my firmware"
[10:17] <zmoylan-pi> not when the new windows 10 laptops won't allow it
[10:18]  * Sebsebsebb Thinks it will be fun to try out the soon to be released Mageia 5 with the new UEFI EFI, delayed for quite a whike, because of stufff like that, but well small community disto
[10:19] <ali1234> i really really don't understand why people use stuff like that
[10:19] <ali1234> i mean distributions have exactly one job, which is to package software in a timely manner
[10:20] <ali1234> ONE JOB
[10:20] <intrbiz> so why would people use debian acording to your one law?
[10:20] <ali1234> i don't know!
[10:20] <Sebsebsebb> since it's actually quite a nice distro, just the development team is well I guess only about 200 people overall for now
[10:20] <ali1234> i mean there's always unstable
[10:21] <popey> Do HP require you to pay for bios updates on laptops the way they do on servers?
[10:24] <Sebsebsebb> Mageia is all about quality the amount of testing it goes through before a final release is amazing and even with such a small amount of contributors, however it does mean only really one final stable release per year, but yeah it's on the like opposite end of the scale to Ubuntu in the small community section, with Ubuntu being on the other end in
[10:24] <Sebsebsebb>  the big and commercial section
[10:25] <Sebsebsebb> hi intrbiz :)
[10:26] <intrbiz> Sebsebsebb: hi
[10:28]  * Sebsebsebb Is thinking of doing a nice multi boot once got new lap top, so Windows 8 hmm later upgrade to 10 on the free upgrade, Ubuntu for Unity, Fedora for well GNOME is nice in Fedora and I started with Fedora, and Mageia since.... Yeah
[10:30] <Sebsebsebb> so uefi EFI nonsense better work well enough or I guess that idea isn't really going to work
[10:30] <directhex> zmoylan-pi: windows 10 logo certification no longer mandates BIOS emulation, and makes secure boot disable optional rather than mandatory. the former is no big deal because BIOS is awful. the latter... i expect HP etc to not allow disable, whilst ODM laptops and all motherboards bought outside a PC will keep it
[10:31]  * zmoylan-pi suspects that secure boot switches will disappear quickly from low end of market making linux a luxury os so to speak
[10:32] <directhex> well, making "Free" distros working out-of-the-box a luxury, sure.
[10:32] <Sebsebsebb> So going back properly to the two lap tops which our of the two is better reakky
[10:32] <directhex> ubuntu or fedora are verisign-signed, so will work out of the box
[10:32] <zmoylan-pi> will kill adoption of linux when kids on their cheap systems can't experiment
[10:33] <ali1234> good.
[10:33] <intrbiz> don't we (as a linux community) have a signed stage one bootloader?
[10:33] <bashrc> it's secure boot switchability which I was wondering about earlier. The most evil scenario would be if the boot system only permitted specific Windows kernels
[10:33] <directhex> intrbiz: yes.
[10:34] <Sebsebsebb> as for price yes cheaper on John Lewis, but meant to be able to get a bit of a discount directly from hp anyway since...
[10:34] <directhex> bashrc: that wouldn't be a compliant implementation
[10:34] <intrbiz> so, secure boot isn't really an issue, for making a distro boot
[10:34] <directhex> bashrc: there's a whole key signing infrastructure which people should be using. any binary signed with a trusted key should just work
[10:34] <intrbiz> I'd agree with the stance that consumers should not be locked out of their devices etc
[10:35] <directhex> sign your own binaries. enroll your own key
[10:35] <ali1234> directhex: so is it possible yet to make a computer which can boot linux but not windows, without having to self sign anything or load keys?
[10:35] <directhex> block microsoft's key!
[10:35] <directhex> ali1234: hm... not without doing one of those things
[10:35] <ali1234> can be done only with loading keys?
[10:36] <ali1234> ie you can still use the normal ISO downloaded from ubuntu.com?
[10:36] <Sebsebsebb> ali1234 going back to earlier why don't you like hp directhex going back to earlier why don't you like amd
[10:37] <directhex> ali1234: ubuntu's boot loader has been signed with the verisign (microsoft) key for ages, so works out of the box on windows 8 only systems
[10:37] <ali1234> i don't like hp because in my experience their support is rubbish, their website is rubbish, their hardware only works with drivers from hp, and their laptops are locked to prevent you from using any third party hardware in them
[10:37] <popey> I stopped buying HP when they made you pay for BIOS/firmware updates.
[10:37] <directhex> Sebsebsebb: ati's driver is crap on linux
[10:37] <Sebsebsebb> oh at popey
[10:37] <intrbiz> HP servers are off my list, due to the updates issue
[10:37] <popey> (certainly for microserver, dunno if that applies to laptops, I'd ask them)
[10:38] <ali1234> directhex: so can i type in a key and then secure boot will allow ubuntu to run, but not windows 8?
[10:38] <intrbiz> popey: IIRC it's just the server lines
[10:38] <popey> thats a blessing I guess
[10:38] <directhex> ali1234: you can remove the verisign key, and add the individual signatures of ubuntu's binaries and your device firmwares
[10:38] <ali1234> so no then
[10:39] <ali1234> i have to either self sign everything, or calculate the checksums of a load of different files
[10:39] <ali1234> which are different on every computer
[10:39] <ali1234> and change with every software update
[10:39] <directhex> going out of your way to block installation of windows on arbitrary consumer hardware is a weird goal
[10:39] <ali1234> why?
[10:40] <directhex> and signed GPU firmware will bite you in the ass anyway
[10:40] <zmoylan-pi> but weirdly satisfying :-)
[10:40] <Sebsebsebb> directhex yeah I have got that impression to over the past few years that amd isn't good in Linux for graphics, but I wasn't sure about currently. Whatnabout the processor though or won't that raally matter, the intel hp one is dual core it seems and the John Lewis and one is quad core it serms
[10:40] <ali1234> AMD isn't good in anything for anything
[10:42] <Sebsebsebb> Apparantly going by some blog post I read the other night AMD is more for gaming and intel more for graphics. Or the other way around
[10:43] <Sebsebsebb> ali1234 yeah maybe that's why the amd one even at John Lewis is quite a bit cheaper than the intel one with only 4gb ram
[10:44]  * bashrc doesn't particularly care about gaming and only cares about graphics insofar as drivers that work
[10:44] <Sebsebsebb> bashrc yeah same really
[10:44] <popey> I've managed to avoid AMD/ATI entirely thankfully.
[10:45] <Sebsebsebb> it seems popey doesn't like them either
[10:45] <intrbiz> just switched out my nvidia cards for AMD cards, had no driver issues (using free drivers), unlike the nvidia cards
[10:45] <popey> I have one machine with an AMD CPU and that's my HP Microserver
[10:46] <Sebsebsebb> so out of the two lap tops overall the intel one is probably the better one out of the two, and for what I wanted to do?
[10:48] <Sebsebsebb> and yes the hinge thing is a gimmick as someone put earlier, but why not may as well have it, and don't need a lenovo yoga or flex for it
[10:49] <Sebsebsebb> Lenovo with pre installed spyware malware whatever it was, any opinions on thst
[10:50] <intrbiz> TBH for a laptop the CPU would be of lesser concern for me than screen, battery life and SSD
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> for me it's screen>keyboard>battery life>hdd capacity
[10:51] <Sebsebsebb> intrbiz did you go on the two links I linked to earlier
[10:52] <Sebsebsebb> for me the internal storage space is important hence rulleing out for example the yoga 3 11 inch since 128gb would be to small
[10:52] <zmoylan-pi> for me a laptop needs at least .5tb these days
[10:52] <Sebsebsebb> hard disk or ssd whatever, it's the amount of space itself that I care about
[10:53] <zmoylan-pi> you can get that in flash but i trust hdd more
[10:53] <intrbiz> I'd rule out that HP on screen res alone:     1366 x 768 @ 13.3 if awful
[10:54] <Sebsebsebb> intrbiz that's what popey basically said, but how awful is it really and compared to my asus eeepc x101ch whatever that had
[10:55] <Sebsebsebb> and that was a 10 inch screen
[10:55] <TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: What is your budget?
[10:55] <popey> Think I've decided to just run my thinkpad into the ground
[10:55] <popey> maybe upgrade the SSD now and then and that's it
[10:55] <popey> it's maxed out RAM and isn't exactly slow for doing what I do.
[10:56] <directhex> this macbook is basically junk for linux. i'll get something else next time
[10:56] <intrbiz> 1366 x768 is fine on 9 or 10, 13.3 need 1680x1050 at least in my mind
[10:56] <popey> yeah
[10:57] <Sebsebsebb> TwistedLucidity 300 to maybe about 500 I guess, but don't want to spend to much on one, since well can end up breaking them in the end
[10:59] <TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: T430 off ebay, can be your for around £350 witha 250GB SSD. The build quality will blow HP and Entroware out of the water
[10:59] <TwistedLucidity> Note: At that price the graphics are only Intel, so it won't do much gaming
[10:59] <TwistedLucidity> And RAM is 8GB
[11:00] <Sebsebsebb> HP one had 1TB
[11:00] <TwistedLucidity> The screens are shockingly dreadful though
[11:00] <Sebsebsebb> for which
[11:00] <TwistedLucidity> Lenovo. The worst screens known to man.
[11:01] <Sebsebsebb> oh it's a lenovo
[11:01] <TwistedLucidity> The T430 will happily swallow extra drives, and there's always USB3.
[11:01] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah T430 = Lenovo Thinkpad T430.
[11:02] <popey> yeah, i put two drives in my x220
[11:02] <Sebsebsebb> Screen is bad how?
[11:03] <popey> I think that's a matter of opinion
[11:03] <Sebsebsebb> Yep
[11:03] <popey> and some hyperbole
[11:03] <TwistedLucidity> They are simply cheap. So not full HD, not IPS, poor viewing angles and if you have a gloss one (like me) hard to use in sunlight.
[11:03] <popey> My Toshiba had a terrible screen.
[11:03] <TwistedLucidity> But it's about the only think wrong
[11:04] <TwistedLucidity> I want to swap my screen for a matte one from the X1 Carbon. Need to find the correct adapter lead though....
[11:04] <TwistedLucidity> The new T440 and so on have a *much better* screen, but they are outside your budget
[11:05] <Sebsebsebb> And for the other one the bad resolution is opinion to, but how small is it really for text etc hmm
[11:06] <awilkins> Chap in my hackspace just noted that this monster of a laptop has been reduced : http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/precision-m3800-workstation/pd
[11:06] <Sebsebsebb> TwistedLucidity well I could do about 700 in a way, but it seems to much to me for a portable etc lap top
[11:07] <TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: All depends what you want to use it for. VMs do mean you'll need beefy RAM and CPU
[11:07] <zmoylan-pi> i could never carry a 15" laptop anymore.  just too big
[11:08] <TwistedLucidity> I'd be inclinded to run the VMs on a home server/cloud and buy a data SIM.
[11:09] <Sebsebsebb> I am also looking to get a 15inch or so lap top sorted out for my much younger little brother, as a first lap top of his own, so I was thinking maybe to one of thiose pre installed ubuntu buyer ones
[11:10] <popey> first laptop = ebay laptop :)
[11:10]  * popey hugs his Thinkpad X61S from ebay for 60 quid
[11:11] <Sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi same for me personally I like small lite waistband portable so 15inch nope
[11:11] <moreati> Sebsebsebb: "waistband portable"?
[11:12] <Sebsebsebb> pooey well in a way, but I am not paying for it, so can get him something better
[11:14] <Sebsebsebb> mainly for typing stuff for school and stuff like that. I am thinking of getting one without Windows pre installed so he hopefully starts learning some Linux though, and then dont have to think about viruses ettc in windows.
[11:14] <zmoylan-pi> i love my olpc's size, shape, handle and it has the best mobile screen ever which can be used in bw mode outdoors in the sun.
[11:15] <zmoylan-pi> it's keyboard and processor are sub par though
[11:16] <popey> I love my Intel Classmate
[11:16] <popey> nice handle too
[11:16] <Sebsebsebb> zmoylan-pi lite waight correcting above
[11:17] <zmoylan-pi> 3rd time lucky :-)
[11:31] <knightwise> afternoon peeps
[11:32] <TwistedLucidity> Sebsebsebb: If it's for school, he will probably be required to use Windows.
[11:34] <knightwise> Currently waiting for a quote on a Dell XPS13 to arrive
[11:38] <knightwise> finally gave in after quite some doubts on what model to pick
[12:03] <bashrc_> so, my mobile phone is dead. I think the battery died completely. I'm tempted to get an UbuntuPhone, but I don't know if the apps are quite there yet in terms of xmpp/otr, tor, etc
[12:09] <diplo> Dont think there are any messaging apps yet, talk of pidgin etc but I don't think it's been done yet
[12:11] <bashrc_> I probably have enough skills to write apps, but just not the time
[12:11] <diplo> Porting jitsi maybe worth the effort I guess
[12:11] <bashrc_> yes I expect so
[12:14] <bashrc_> also what's the browser like on the UbuntuPhone? Can I do things like block ads and visit sites with self-signed certs?
[12:16] <diplo> Based on chromium I *think*, been a while since I read up on it to be honest.. popey will probably answer later :)
[12:18] <bashrc_> so I guess the conservative choice would be something like a N5, where I could run either cyanogen or ubuntutouch
[12:21] <zmoylan-pi> nah, conservative would be a nokia 3310 :-D
[12:21] <diplo> heh I'm thinking of doing the same, except the n4 as I don't have the cash for the 5
[12:24] <bashrc_> my dead phone is a n4
[14:34] <diplo> MartijnVdS: You're just down the road from me according to G+ :)
[14:34] <diplo> On holibobs ?
[16:08] <diddledan> ello
[16:09] <zmoylan-pi> allo allo
[16:10] <zmoylan-pi> theese eesss night 'awk
[16:13]  * diddledan loved allo allo
[16:14] <zmoylan-pi> wonderfully bad
[16:14] <diddledan> indeed
[16:14] <diddledan> it didn't need to be emaculately turned-out because it was silly
[16:15] <diddledan> the whole concept being based in nowhere france that had absolutely zero impact on the war
[16:21] <directhex> good moaning
[16:22] <zmoylan-pi> it's that idiot english policeman who thinks he can speak french...
[16:24] <ujjain> I won £1600 at a casino, now they say they "you will be limited to a maximum withdrawal value of 6 times your first deposit amount and any remaining balance will be forfeited. " as per T&C... that's painful :(
[16:29] <awilkins> Nasty
[16:30] <awilkins> I know casinos are full of unfairness but that one seems particularly churlish
[16:30] <OerHeks> deposit £10, walk around, return £60 in chips, buy £60, walk around and return £360, buy £300, deposit £1600, done
[16:30] <awilkins> 6 times *first* deposit. They thought of that one.
[16:31] <OerHeks> oh ..
[16:31] <zmoylan-pi> they're set up to make them money, not you
[16:31] <OerHeks> Oh that is why casino's in NL are in hands of our gouvernment :-D
[16:32] <awilkins> They dangle the prospect of large unowned riches in your face... and then the T&Cs say (except when it actually happens..)
[16:32] <awilkins> *unearned
[16:34] <ujjain> deposit £20, automatically added bonus of £20, win £1600, forcefully have to play for 2 more hours because of minimium £1k spending limit, withdraw... T&C... you can only win max 6x£20 deposit, 93% of the £1600 stayss with them.
[16:35] <directhex> the house always wins
[16:35] <directhex> unless you side with caesar's legion
[16:38] <awilkins> Best way to win at a casino : eat dinner
[16:38] <awilkins> Last time I was in a casino, got a cracking 4 course dinner for £15, including £5 of chips.
[16:38] <zmoylan-pi> lots of slots winners who've won big are told it was a computer error and are not paid too
[16:38] <awilkins> They make it nice to lure you in.
[16:39] <awilkins> "Computer error"?!? Sorry, that's just bent. If it's your machine at fault, you should pay out.
[16:40] <zmoylan-pi> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/04/sorry-grandma-that-42-million-slot-machine-jackpot-was-a-computer-glitch/
[16:41] <ali1234> awilkins: the solution is simple then. make another account and fold the money to yourself on heads up poker
[16:43] <ujjain> I thoguht about that lol
[16:44] <ujjain> roxy palace does have poker
[16:44] <ujjain> argh
[16:44] <ujjain> can't even unscerw myself
[16:45] <ujjain> Eva: this is a part of the terms and conditions
[16:45] <ujjain> Eva: I wish I could change it but I cannot
[16:48] <ali1234> not true actually
[16:49] <ali1234> "Management reserves the right, entirely in its sole  discretion, to waive and/or modify the application of this clause in  individual instances."
[16:50] <ujjain> Yeah, but I've asked via chat, and they refer 4 times to the T&C.
[16:50] <ujjain> not even asying more, so yeah.
[16:50] <ujjain> seems quiet horrible to work for chat support for a casino, a lot of upset people.
[16:51] <awilkins> Ok ubuntoids : what about this bug where shutting down my computer just makes it reboot?
[16:51] <bashrc> sounds odd
[16:52] <awilkins> Basically this : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1346269
[16:52] <awilkins> After upgrading to 15.04 I think
[16:53] <awilkins> Got home the other day and my laptop had been running in my bag for 90 minutes - it was a bit warm
[16:53] <diddledan> eep
[16:54] <awilkins> I'm guessing it's some ACPI weirdness
[16:54] <awilkins> Upgraded my BIOS, didn't help :-(
[16:55] <awilkins> Some hint on that bug that graphics drivers may also affect it
[16:56] <awilkins> Will go and twiddle the nvidia driver to the newest one
[16:56] <awilkins> Have to bleach and reinstall it anyway at some point to encrypt the drives
[17:24] <awilkins> Have found a fix to my constant rebooting problem
[17:24] <awilkins> Involves going into the BIOS and turning off _everything_ with the word "wake" in it
[17:25] <awilkins> Don't know what it was but perhaps some USB device (wired into the motherboard) is still awake when things shut down and it wakes the computer back up again in it's dying moments
[17:34] <directhex> awilkins: my wife had a similar issue. was a root USB hub, apparently, to blame
[17:38] <awilkins> If I could be bothered I'd selectively re-enable things
[17:38] <awilkins> But I can't
[17:38] <awilkins> Only happened recently so *shrug*
[22:49] <diddledan> I just sent a big moany email at my colleagues :-p
[22:53] <zmoylan-pi> moaning about?
[22:53] <diddledan> the lack of upstreaming patches to drupal.org
[22:54] <zmoylan-pi> ah freeloading users of drupal... :-)
[22:54] <diddledan> we appear to be collecting patches which we don't need to be
[22:55] <diddledan> we have about a 8 different patches that I've told them all they really need to be filing upstream
[22:56] <zmoylan-pi> but that would help the competition who also use drupal!!
[22:56] <diddledan> IMO changes to drupal core or contrib modules should ALWAYS be upstream
[22:56] <zmoylan-pi> that's communism!!!
[22:57] <diddledan> /kickban zmoylan-pi Microsoft apologist
[22:57] <diddledan> :-p
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> microsoft are commies? :-)
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> worst. commies. evar.
[22:58] <diddledan> err no, you were moaning about the commies
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> no no they think open source is cancer
[22:58] <awilkins> Open Sores Losers are Commies!
[22:59] <diddledan> I kb'd you because you're obviously anti-open-sauce
[22:59] <awilkins> Open Sauce is the worst.
[22:59] <zmoylan-pi> i always put the lid back on the sauce AND the toothpaste
[22:59] <awilkins> You leave it open and it collects spores and you  end up with furry sores
[22:59] <zmoylan-pi> i've also started keeping the sauce in the fridge
[23:00] <diddledan> I need coke, brb.
[23:00] <awilkins> So you can have cold sauce?
[23:00] <zmoylan-pi> a little late for caffine stimulants?
[23:01] <zmoylan-pi> just trying it, someone recommended it and am seeing if i can taste difference at end of bottle
[23:02] <awilkins> I kept a bottle of Worcestershire sauce for 5 years at uni
[23:02] <awilkins> It gets better as it matures
[23:02] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, but that tastes the same when it goes off :-)
[23:02] <awilkins> Then my mother in law threw it away because of the date on it
[23:04] <daftykins> diddledan: collecting patches? perhaps a quilt is being made!
[23:49] <awilkins> Host servers, get free heating http://www.nerdalize.com/#heating